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Fidel Castro Is Dead (nytimes.com)
Striek quotes the New York Times: Fidel Castro, the fiery apostle of revolution who brought the Cold War to the Western Hemisphere in 1959 and then defied the United States for nearly half a century as Cuba's maximum leader, bedeviling 11 American presidents and briefly pushing the world to the brink of nuclear war, died Friday. He was 90. His death was announced by Cuban state television.
In declining health for several years, Mr. Castro had orchestrated what he hoped would be the continuation of his Communist revolution, stepping aside in 2006 when he was felled by a serious illness. He provisionally ceded much of his power to his younger brother Raul, now 85, and two years later formally resigned as president. Raul Castro, who had fought alongside Fidel Castro from the earliest days of the insurrection and remained minister of defense and his brother's closest confidant, has ruled Cuba since then, although he has told the Cuban people he intends to resign in 2018.
Kebertson shares an AP article which remembers a book proclaiming "Castro's Last Hour" -- in 1982. And Miamicanes jokes there'll be celebrations among Castro-haters in Miami, sharing a CNN article which notes that in the end, Castro "lived long enough to see a historic thaw in relations between Cuba and the United States."
In declining health for several years, Mr. Castro had orchestrated what he hoped would be the continuation of his Communist revolution, stepping aside in 2006 when he was felled by a serious illness. He provisionally ceded much of his power to his younger brother Raul, now 85, and two years later formally resigned as president. Raul Castro, who had fought alongside Fidel Castro from the earliest days of the insurrection and remained minister of defense and his brother's closest confidant, has ruled Cuba since then, although he has told the Cuban people he intends to resign in 2018.
Kebertson shares an AP article which remembers a book proclaiming "Castro's Last Hour" -- in 1982. And Miamicanes jokes there'll be celebrations among Castro-haters in Miami, sharing a CNN article which notes that in the end, Castro "lived long enough to see a historic thaw in relations between Cuba and the United States."
RIP?
How do we know now....
This item hit the news feeds oh, around 15 hours ago.
A bit late to the game eh?
A cyanide laced CIAgar?
Fidel has been out of it for years. His death is no surprise and changes nothing.
Perhaps you should educate yourself on his actions.
It was 2008.
But consider for a moment, if it was fake.
With a huge Cuban community you can bet that celebrations will break out in Miami, Fl.. Many have waited eagerly to hear of his death.
I hope the 1% are stockpiling Zyklon-B. Wouldn't blame them in the least if they were.
Cuba's hostility against America is legendary. President Clinton removed Gitmo's landmines due to international pressure, but Castro kept his in place (they're still there as far as I know).
The only reason Obama even attempted that was to create some sort of legacy for himself. I don't know if it'll work. It depends on what Trump does. I'll figure he'll be a better negotiator than Obama and actually achieve normalized relations on fair terms, but Obama will get the credit for the being the first one. Casto's death ought to help the situation, since they're less crazy than North Korea.
As if the brutal dictator Batista, backed by the US Government, was a humanitarian. Apparently the US Government so loved this dictator that he settled in Florida and invested much of his ill-gotten wealth in Florida until he returned to Cuba and once again began a reign of terror. https://www.britannica.com/biography/Fulgencio-Batista
Perhaps you should educate yourself on his actions.
As opposed to say .. Batista?
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
This is fake news to distract people from the fact that Donald Trump offered Fidel Castro a job in his administration to piss off Ted Cruz. He will make for an excellent Fed chairman, propped in the corner with sunglasses on.
One less commie in the world....
...but unfortunately we'll still have to live with the hateful fascist who wrote that post.
As opposed to say .. Batista?
Barista. Starbucks is hot in Cuba.
Castro is still dead.
Weekend at Bernies?
Just be sure not to play music around him.
this isnt going to be a very popular opinion here, but the reason for the historic thaw is surprising. Typically the united states is content to hold trade embargos indefinitely against any nation that so much as thinks of challenging unfettered capitalism. The reason for this thaw is similar to the reason for the Iranian thaw. The US is losing geopolitical capital at an unprecedented rate early in the 21st century.
central and south american leaders are no longer subscribing to the teachings or guidance of american politicians. instead theyre renationalizing their resources and divesting from markets typically dominated by american presence. Cuba was a last ditch effort by the state department to keep a foothold in trade agreements that are rapidly moving away from the dollar as their standard. Prior to this we had tried calling in our debts from socialist democracies, demonizing their policy in our media, and withholding world bank investment only to find these countries far more resilient and fungible than they were 35 years ago when we could routinely replace their leaders with a coup.
Good people go to bed earlier.
I'll believe it when Netcraft confirms it.
Perhaps you should educate yourself on his actions.
As opposed to say .. Batista?
Fascist, Batista, there is a difference?
hell does not exist you berky pillot! he will rot that's all
Just be sure not to play music around him.
Too late. The Rolling Stones already performed in Cuba earlier this year.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/live-reviews/rolling-stones-thrill-huge-crowd-at-historic-havana-show-20160326
Fidel Castro body count: 100,000.
Most people are unaware of the US involvement in pre-Castro Cuba, and would be shocked if they did a little research.
Castro and communism are not my choices for leaders or economic systems, but the US is responsible for overthrowing lots of governments around the world, then acting shocked when a dictator or religious zealot steps in.
Hopefully Trump won't renew the economic oppression of the Cuban people. We have behaved shamefully.
You can say anything about Fidel, but he was a tough guy. Cuba resisted bravely (if you allow me to use the term) to an enemy way bigger and more powerful for many years. Curiously, the end of the Castro era could have arrived long before if the past presidents would have used the Obama approach: Embrace, extend and extinguish. Personally, I think he chose a wrong path and became the perfect example of why communist social structures are not sustainable. "Join together to share the lack of wealth", to use Stallman's words, simply goes against human nature. RIP, anyway.
Open Source Network Inventory for the masses! Kuwaiba
Killed by Hillary Clinton. Sad story.
... until I see it on Fox News (sic).
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
In other news, Francisco Franco is still dead.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Economic growth is not everything.
...5,999,999 to go!
... comes to us from the Greeks (ca. bay of pigs) and is a concatenated corruption of the form, "infidel castration," and generally refers to a paynim in the ass with no balls.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Of course Batista was bad. Castro was worse; under Castro people risked likely death to escape.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Hopefully Trump won't renew the economic oppression of the Cuban people.
Unsure how to respond. If you mean is Trump the heir to Fidel, the answer is no. If you mean the stupid embargo, that was the best thing to happen to Castro; he couldn't have asked for a better justification to continue his own oppression of the Cuban people.
If you actually do think Castro was good for Cuba, you are sadly ignorant. Batista's Cuba was famous for literacy and doctors per capita, compared to the rest of Latin America, so Castro's improvements were pretty small, he killed far more people, and destroyed all chances for improvements.
Maybe you are one of the who thinks Che Guevara was heroic and cannot see the irony of selling t-shirts with his picture.
Infuriate left and right
Got anything to back it up? Links to the Cuban-American Fascist Society of Miami don't count.
Presumably the US economic sanctions for 50 years had no effect on the Cuban economy.
The most capitalist day of the year.
It doesn't feel as good as when Thatcher and Reagan bit the dust.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
If a war torn banana republic is beating you that badly on growth, there is something seriously wrong with your economic policy.
Let me guess... an embargo?
That aside get your statistics right: Cuba GDP per capita is up 250% since 1970 and Honduras GDP per capita is up 230% in the same period and still half of the Cuban GDP per capita, life expectancy in Honduras is 73 years, in Cuba 79 (higher than USA by the way). Sen. Joseph McCarthy legacy still lives on.
Khrushchev would agree with you. If he or his dream were still alive.
What finished Castro off was a nightmare he had of dozens of gold-plated high rise Trump casinos looming over Cuba's beaches.
You got a chuckle out of me, but it looks like Communists (or MSM journalists) with mod points are unhappy with your post.
"In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead."
If you actually do think Castro was good for Cuba, you are sadly ignorant.
Don't put words in his mouth, he actually said the exact opposite: "Castro and communism are not my choices for leaders or economic systems..."
Batista's Cuba was famous for literacy and doctors per capita...
Cuba has a literacy rate of 99,7% and it would appear that despite the best efforts of the US, the Cuban govt, has managed to maintain a pretty good healthcare system: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/... Much like the AC you are maligning I don't think much of communism but if you want to dump on the Castro regime at least pick something to complain about that they managed to mess up and not two things they actually seem to have managed to get right.
Maybe you are one of the who thinks Che Guevara was heroic and cannot see the irony of selling t-shirts with his picture.
First you put words in his mouth, now you are projecting thoughts into his mind.
The end of President Obama, the end of the Hillary, and the end to Dictator Castro. What's not to like about the end of 2016.
it's actually more to do with Obama, the Democrats and how our presidential elections work.
Cuban immigrants were a big part of winning Florida for the Republicans. They're why we've maintained the embargo. Anyone politician who tried was dead in the water on a national stage.
That said time passed, those immigrants died and their kids didn't listen much to granddad's story and Obama formed a big anti-Bush jr coalition to put him in the Whitehouse.
That left us open to normalizing relations. Businesses have wanted this for years but politics made it impossible. So at this point it's got more to do with the dems free trade policies and general progressivism than anything else. That and marginalizing the remaining anti-Castro voters left in Florida.
So yeah, we embargoed a country for 30+ years because their refugees settled in a populous swing state. Take those same people and drop them off in TX and things would be completely different. Man, our politics are a mess. And don't get me started on Israel...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
And the timing of this is suspicious with Trump about to become our ruler.
Its like the Iranians and the hostages. They knew their time was up when Reagan was elected.
Cuba is still communist while tricle down economics has been discredited. People die . Its if their ideas live on is what matters.
Fidel's ideas only live on under the gun's of his government. Reagan didn't need to hold guns to people's heads. When the Cuban government's guns are put aside we'll learn the people's true opinion of Fidel.
Khrushchev would agree with you. If he or his dream were still alive.
And Khrushchev was the sane one of the two. Part of the reason he withdrew missiles from Cuba was that he thought Fidel was f'n crazy, willing to let Cuba suffer nuclear strikes if it would advance global communism.
Of course Batista was bad. Castro was worse; under Castro people risked likely death to escape.
It wasn't so much escaping Cuba as wanting riches. Pretty much everyone wanted to go to USA, even though there were other countries they could travel to if escape had been the reason.
You can say anything about Fidel, but he was a tough guy. Cuba resisted bravely ...
Fidel was the little bully sidekick talking sh*t, sucking up to, the real tough bully, the Soviets. He was a useful idiot, nothing more. Once the Cuban people are allowed a voice he will be consigned to the dustbin of history.
...killed by Death, same as Lemmy.
Economic growth is not everything.
It is if you have to pay for your hospitals, schools, etc. Once the Soviet subsidies ended the Cuban "progress" started to fall apart.
Communists don't have Hell. Castro is burning in Venezuela.
So... a couple of orders of magnitude less than capitalist America, then.
Batista's Cuba was famous for literacy and doctors per capita, compared to the rest of Latin America, so Castro's improvements were pretty small
Life expectancy in Batista's Cuba was far lower than in the USA at the time, in Castro's Cuba it is higher. Literacy in Batista's Cuba was estimated between 60% and 76% (because there is no data for the neglect countryside), taking the highest esteem it was the fourth highest in Latin America at the time, today it is 99.7% according to Unesco data, highest in Latin America.
Try harder.
When Castro first came to power, he was inspired by the Mexican revolution of 1910-1920 who did not turn communist. Moreover the Cuban Communist Party had denounced Castro's revolution as pro-Western. He was pushed into the USSR sphere of influence by the aggressive CIA-led actions.
Then the embargo provided the biggest excuse ever for Castro and his dictatorship. He could always blame his failed economic policies on the USA led embargo.
Batista wasn't just "bad". Batista ran the island as a giant criminal enterprise, using the Mafia as his enforcers, and looted the treasury of hundreds of millions of dollars in the process. He impoverished the people and killed at least 20,000 of them in a 7-year span.
Maybe you are one of the who thinks Che Guevara was heroic and cannot see the irony of selling t-shirts with his picture.
Che was a serial killer. There are ironic t-shirts with Charles Manson's picture on them, too.
Wow, such an edgy comment.Careful so as not to cut yourself.
Batista's body count was 20,000 over only 7 years. They basically swapped a ruthless authoritarian corrupt dictator for another "brutal dictator:, Object lesson is: when you decide to drain the swamp, you may not get the result you were expecting,
What does McCarthyism have to do with any of this? The people practicing McCarthyism in most recent history were the hysterical 'Hillary is being hacked by Russia' fanatics.
And anyways, McCarthy was an opportunist and unethical, but he made use of a legitimate issue to establish himself. The Russians WERE infiltrating the US government in the period when he was ranting. It was very well documented shortly after the USSR fell, during a short period when the KGB archives were accessable.
Specifically, Castro's hell is in a supermarket in Venezuela. They've given him a can-opener, but there are no canned goods at all on the shelf.
He would need to "rot in hell" because of how he hurt other people and have to kill. Scince I am Athiest and don't believe in heaven or hell, I see another tyrant who lived out the rest of his life in relitave comfort, and has now ceased to exist entirely, save for the dead shell that was once his body. He will never feel any of the pain or suffering his victims did, nor suffer in any kind of prison scince you can't suffer when you no longer exist. Yet another villan gets away Scot free
What other countries? They certainly weren't making it to Europe in their little rowboats or whatever they could find to escape on.
That leaves a bunch of tiny islands, many under US control anyway and those that aren't were in just as bad a shape as Cuba throughout much of the cold war era. Mexico, which might be a great tourist trap but not really where most people think of when they want to start a new life of dreams and unicorns. Or Florida.
Not to mention Florida is also the closest of all of those to Havana so in addition to saving time on the water, there'd be significantly less travel time on land as well for most of the escapees, which would have had plenty of its own pitfalls (mostly in the form of being caught in the act.)
Though that said, I'd be less than shocked if I found out that a bunch of Cubans had also escaped to Cancun. And I'm sure some did flee to Jamaica and Haiti and whatnot, though that would have been more difficult with Guantanamo (and US military presence) right there in addition to dodging the Cuban military.
Castro will never go to hell, because "heaven and hell" exists on Earth only, as a physical state/status that a person or place is in. Castro went to the exact same place that every single creature, including humans go, and that is nonexistance. What is really sad is the many people who don't fight these tyrants because they believe in a bunch of fairy tales that tell them that "God will get them in the end" and "if you suffer on Earth, you will relax and be happy in Heaven" (another storybookesque place that only exists in peoples minds) so they just sit back and let themselves and others including their loved ones to be abused in this manner
I've been to Cuba, and i wouldn't want to ever have to visit a hospital there.
Yeah, Batista was a bad guy, just like the Shah of Iran was a bad guy. Most places on Earth throughout all of human history have been run by bad guys.
Sadly, there are always WORSE people who are eager and ready to take advantage of such situations to bring even worse guys into power.
When the Shah fell in Iran, the "revolutionaries" brought-in Islamofascism and converted Iran into a pariah nation widely recognized as the world's worst state-sponsor of global terrorism. The Iranians who were outraged by the number of victims of the Shah, found themselves under the boot of the Iranian revolutionary guards who have racked-up a FAR worse record of murder and oppression.
Castro arose to replace Batista, and ended-up creating a nasty police-state that massacred political opponents as a sport (Castro pal Che, of T-Shirt fame, had big windows installed in his office overlooking the execution area so he could enjoy the firing squads slaughtering his opponents). Under Castro, Cuba did not improve relative to Batista, it actually got WORSE. Nobody will ever know how many Cubans died at sea trying escape, but the number is certainly far higher than under Batista.
This makes Trudeau The world's top communist. We're number one!
2005 called. They want their hackneyed quip back.
Even before Cuba lifted its exit visa requirements a few years ago, it was not hard to get an exit visum to nearby countries, after which they could board planes and boats, not rafts. A very easy "escape" if that had been what they wanted.
Almost all the Cubans in Florida are economic refugees, running to a place more than from.
he's pining for the fjords.
-linux... they can't *give* that shit away.
that despite the best efforts of the US, the Cuban govt, has managed to maintain a pretty good healthcare system:
Bullshit. They have a couple of Potemkin hospitals that they show to idiots like Michael Moore.
Indeed a well respected leader who's people would do anything possible to escape the country. Including nailing some wood planks together and trying to drift 90 miles to America...but yea awesome guy
97,000 killed, backed up with substantiated reports and independent sources.You can choose to ignore it, but it's pretty well established data.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Hillary is still a lady in my book, she has shown even good behavior after the last circus which the USA calls election.
Obama is one of the most gifted presidents the USA has had (just MHO, but as a foreigner, I have no internal interests).
The other two don't even merit any mention. Let's forget one and endure the other.
PS: I'm particularly fond of how he advanced the Cuban question and how he opened an avenue to enlightenment regarding Japan. Also, Japan apologizing to China and the historical Sino-Japanese handshake also deeply moved my heart. I can only congratulate all the involved and have Faith in a better future.
For the sake of perspective, it's important to note that the life expectancy in Batista's Cuba was influenced mainly whether or not you were white and lived in Havana. For a white family in Havana, life expectancy was basically the same as the US. For a rural black family, it was much, MUCH worse [mostly due to work-related injuries]. Castro worsened healthcare for white Cubans, but improved it for the rest of the country.
I thought that now that Trump and Putin are best bros that commies are no longer the bad guys.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Nothing on netcraft...
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Iran is a much better example of unintended consequences of a people's "revolution". While the progressive students at the forefront of the revolution were busy babysitting hostages while the hardline religious nut jobs, whose leadership had been hiding in Europe, swopped in, took power, and killed anyone who disagreed. And like Cuba it was the regular citizens who suffered the most after a revolution that was supposedly fought to make their lives better. And the cherry on the top was pissing off the one country in the world with the ability to basically prevent either country from using the international monetary mechanism need for trade. Cuba was stuck with driving around in cars built in the 60's and the Iranians got stuck with a fleet of F-15s and commercial jets that they could not properly maintain due to US sanctions and the country as a whole went from one of the most modern and prosperous ME states to a pariah drowning in fundamentalist dogma. .
yes.. it is so hateful to hate brutal dictators.
In other news, Francisco Franco is still dead.
I just checked on this and it is true!
Victor Frankenstein was not available for comment...
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
1995 called. They want their hackneyed quip back.
There aren't many places on earth where the poor are more oppressed than in Cuba under the Castro regime, dumbass. Why do you think they risk their lives to escape in makeshift, overloaded boats?
it was not hard to get an exit visum to nearby countries ...as long as you were OK with the government viciously persecuting your family and taking what little money or property you had left, sure.
I wonder if you were one of the many scrawny kids I brown-swirlied so many many times.
Yay! I found a way out of tyranny! It's called suicide! I'll be AN HERO! Suicide for teh win!!!
So, the director of the National Security Agency says the elections were targeted by a nation-state, and you say that people having concerns about that are hysterical McCarthyism. You know what? Fuck you.
Let's not forget the "good guys" from the UK and the USA overthrew Iran's democratically elected Prime Minister Mosaddegh back in 1953.
Whoa whoa whoa there cowboy.
'IF' these numbers are to be believed....
77,833 of that number are attributed to drownings of Cubans attempting to raft to the US. I don't care what kind of leader he may or may not have been, you can't count these as his body count. It's not even a real number, it's an 'estimated' number, based on US coast guard reports. There's very little facts involved here. Cuba is only 90 miles from the cost of Florida. 90 MILES! It's so close that anyone with dreams of living "the American Dream" will take a chance on it. So there goes 80% of your argument right there.
2199 death in prison. From 1959 - 2005. 2,199 prison deaths over 46 years. The US had over 4300 deaths in local jails and state prisons IN 2012 ALONE! (https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/mljsp0012st.pdf) Given the amount of racial violence in the US, It's really hard to begrudge this number to Cuba. There's no break down of how many of those 2199 were attributed to Fidel directly, and how many were due to prison violence, guard grudges, or just plain health problems. Without substantiated breakdowns, there's no way to know.
1,203 deaths from Extrajudicial assassinations. That's a fair number. Blame it on Fidel. Or maybe other countries just haven't been called out on it. Maybe this is actually low by comparison?
5,640 deaths from Firing squad executions. That's a fair number too. But don't forget, it was revolution. Fidel overthrew a dictator (put in place by the US btw). Nothing about a revolution is clean. People from the other side are going to be executed. Do I need to dig up number on the lives lost during the American revolution? Oh, and did I mention it was 46 years? There's NO break down on whether those deaths happened during, immediately after, or over the course of those 46 years.
But go on, keep waiving 97,000 around like it means something. What ever lets you sleep at night.
Nah, using the term "edgy" is a millennial thing. They weren't even born back in 1995.
Wow you are an idiot. Putin is not a Commie. Sure he has a soviet past, so what? Look at the scum that is in power in America /Yedinaya Rossiya) and
today and tell me a former low-level KGB employee is any worse. At least he doesn't have to field accusations of fucking little
boys and girls all day, in contrast to the swine in America. Putin's party is United Russia (
not the KPSU or now the KPRF. Hey..btw, where is Trump's cowboy-hat? I thought ALL Americans ran around with
cowboy-hats?!
Hillary is a criminal who has had numerous people murdered. She is a pro-surveillance, pro-war fearmonger. As a president, she would have represented status quo and the USA would have continued to degenerate into the freedom-hating police state that it is becoming.
Obama was a pro-surveillance, anti-freedom seatwarmer, nothing more. I understand that SJWs enjoy watching his hollow gestures but that doesn't change the fact that he has done absolutely nothing in eight years.
GWB is a war criminal and belongs in front of a firing squad.
I don't like Trump but at least he wasn't previously a politician and he's not afraid to shake things up. That could be exactly what the US government needs to get its act together.
but I have it on good authority that the shade of Adolf Hitler's dog Blondie has
a new chewing toy.
Yeah, sure they are...
Maybe you shouldn't rely upon movies as your sole source of information.
99.7, such a believable (and unverifiable) number. I'd like to know who dreamed it up and how they justified it. Was it people who recognized the alphabet?
Any post relying on such a dubious statistic is suspect right off the bat.
Infuriate left and right
Another echo of the dubious 99.7. It shouldn't take 2 seconds to realize what nonsense that is. Did you also believe the reports of Fidel's popularity?
Infuriate left and right
The Che fanbois are not ironic, they think he was a hero. You are just as naive if you don't recognize the difference.
Infuriate left and right
Proving that ${deity} truly has a sense of humor, Fidel Castro -- icon and architect of Cuban Communism -- died on Black Friday... a/k/a "Adam Smith Day" -- the day Americans gather in our grand cathedrals of commerce and celebrate capitalism by shopping like there's no tomorrow.
I think you're going too far by assuming that your opinion is unpopular. Yes, you got a couple of bad mods, but overall your post was rated insightful, and I even felt that it was one of the few insightful-rated posts that deserved the mod. In the absence of any meaningful notion of "identity" associated with Slashdot membership, I can just dismiss the negative mods as coming from sock puppet herders, though I suppose some of them could be from actual angry losers (like so many of those Trump voters).
At least the funny mods were for posts that deserved it, though there were so few of them. The funniest idea is that the mod system could be fixed, eh? I'd like to see some incentivizing for humor, for example by giving double funny mod points to members who've earned lots of funny mods.
On the actual topic, I did see a list of hate, but very little about the other side of the bogeyman named Castro. Can't recall that any of the hate lists mentioned the real reason the right wingers hated him so much: FEAR. They were really afraid that the bad example could spread to other countries in the hemisphere. Same sort of domino theory that brought us the war in Vietnam. From that perspective, the best things that Castro did were actually the worst, so I guess that means the Cuban medical system. Just shows what can be accomplished without much money (or computers or modern cars) as long as your priorities are on keeping people healthy? (Did some searches for mentions of that topic and couldn't find much in the visible parts of the discussion.)
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Because a communist dictatorship's own self-surveys are 100% trustworthy!
1) I cannot discuss Hillary, as I wrote I'm not American and know little about the true nature of people (even over here!). That said, she showed a lot of class in past situations; regarding USA killing habits, well, let's be honest, do you think that will stop?
2) IMHO it's undeniable that Obama did a lot: in quantity and in quality. Even outside the US that can be seen. I would say perhaps he could have had better results weren't the USA in such a deep crisis on his first term. The US spent a lot of resources trying to maintain its lead in the World Politics, maybe he should have toned that down a bit.
3) About GWB, I'd rather think he simply wasn't the right man for the extreme times the US endured back in 2001. Maybe Obama would be more of a pragmatist, but we'll never know. What I know is that I posted many times here suggesting a war would only create unhappiness, but I was just an unknown voice, living faraway and didn't count for anything.
4) About Trump, a friend of mine said he preferred him to her -- because he looked more sincere. I scratched my head a lot and came to the conclusion that he thought Trump had a behavior that matched better the image he had of Politicians -- more or less like "all of them are rotten inside, but this one shows a matching exterior." That guy is not against the USA, he just doesn't give a fsck whether the country sinks or float. That's not my view: the USA has been an ally and going backwards would be a loss for many, in many countries. I hope I'm wrong and things turn out to be OK -- even if by sheer luck.
Which would be different from moving to the US how, exactly?
the sole reason the trade embargo was lifted was so that Bill could get good cigars again ......
The very concept of a "literacy rate" is nonsense. Different people have different capacity to understand what they read. I'm not big on sports, but I can usually get some understanding from scientific papers. I may not fully comprehend what I am reading, but some understanding is usually accomplished. Reading ability is one big grey area.
All of reality is a record that eventually there will be a technology for people to peruse and copy it at their leisure.
Dang it, I just bought the mask for next halloween!
"Computers are a lot like Air Conditioners" "They both work great until you start opening Windows"
1776 called, they want their language back!
Though that said, I'd be less than shocked if I found out that a bunch of Cubans had also escaped to Cancun. And I'm sure some did flee to Jamaica and Haiti and whatnot, though that would have been more difficult with Guantanamo (and US military presence) right there in addition to dodging the Cuban military.
I was born and live in Mexico. Over the years, I have met tens of Cubans who came here for different reasons, some exiting legally, some... much less so. Most of those exiting legally returned to Cuba. Yes, not everybody was allowed out — but it was not as dire as you imagine. Now, out of those who left ilegally, basically all of them either had emigrated to the USA (and I met them later, as USA citizens) or were on their way to do so.
Mexico is far from a first-world country, but it's also a place where an educated and skilled person can surely make a very good living. Many cubans have stayed here, of course, but there's nothing like Miami — I'd say, just an average Cuban community comparable to other Latin American national communities.
As for Haiti and Jamaica... No, that's highly unlikely. In fact, it's way more probable for Haitians to try to immigrate into Cuba.
Said just like a 9-11 "pilot" before the "landed" their planes full of "passengers" and full load fuel.
Another echo of the dubious 99.7. It shouldn't take 2 seconds to realize what nonsense that is. Did you also believe the reports of Fidel's popularity?
Why is the statistic dubious? This poster even gave the source for the statistic, UNESCO. I looked up the literacy rate data on UNESCO's site and found this page with literacy statistics. The rates they publish for Cuba seems to match what both posters posted. Do you have data that contradicts this or does it just "feel" wrong to you? You've been around here for a long time, you should know data plays better with this crowd than emotion. Please present your data refuting the statistic or STFU.
Enigma
And the US still imprisons a greater % of our people than Castro did his. So check your human rights violations in the mirror.
It is arguable whether Fidel really believed in communism (at least initially), he is even on the record many times stating before the uprising he did not believe in it. Cuba was given no other choice though as they were in the shit for revolting against a US backed corrupt dictator, So it was either befriend Soviet Union and Co or go it alone against a country who had shown no morals whatsoever when it came to dealing with Cuba and the Cuban people/.
Don't forget the biggest genocide in human history - also by the US Government.
http://www.ilknowledge.com/201...
No sig today...
Nothing dubious about it, actual socialist countries considered basic education being the most important thing they can and must provide. That was the way in the USSR, in GDR, in Cuba, in Yugoslavia and so on. GDR schools were quite a bit better than they are in any German state nowadays, I can tell you that from personal experience.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
>> it was not hard to get an exit visum to nearby countries... as long as you were OK with the government viciously persecuting your family and taking what little money or property you had left, sure.
> Which would be different from moving to the US how, exactly?
Which would be different from moving from the US how, exactly?
There, FTFY.
Fidel wasn't a chosen leader. He took power by force. People died, people wanted him dead and he reacted more or less precisely. Probably some people were unfairly persecuted, others really tried something and had to flee to avoid being executed.
The USA also had a bloody independence, but fortunately back then there were noble ideals (which totally is not the case with the shameful behavior the USA shows now). I'd say Cuba (and Fidel) improved (probably because Fidel got old) and Raul is much better than his brother. Luckily there was a good man at the White House and so peace talks could start.
With Trump it certainly wouldn't work so well.
Regarding Cubans in Florida, I don't know if y'all are aware of that but they speak Spanish. And what's more, the American continent has a few other countries speaking that language, too (i.e. almost 90%).
It's harder to stay in the USA than migrating to one of these countries, so I really think it's an ideological thing -- these people probably wanted the USA "Freedom" instead of being oppressed by a not-so-benevolent dictator at their homeland.
Fair enough, I'd say. Just don't say: "I love Cuba". Because, when one loves something or someone, the idea is to stay with it/her/him and endure the hard times.
Better saying "I hate Fidel" than "I love Cuba".
Sorry for being so blunt, but if I got a nickel for all the selfish people I've seen in life claiming they were self-made or have suffered, I'd have enough to pay a lunch for a lot of the ones who really suffer in life.
I think now it's a golden opportunity for everyone:
- for the refugees to finally return to Cuba;
- for Trump and the nice American citizens that voted for him to send the Cubans back and get rid of Hispanics, which would be in accordance with his stated objectives of "dealing" with several minorities.
Racism won't make anyone great.
Not in America, not in Europe and neither in Asia.
Well they're not going to get it from here!
Donald Trump, on a crusade to make Nixon look respectable
Another echo of the dubious 99.7. It shouldn't take 2 seconds to realize what nonsense that is. Did you also believe the reports of Fidel's popularity?
Why is the statistic dubious?
Well obviously it goes against his preconceptions and biases.
I'm inclined to believe that Cuba has a high level of adult literacy, but that just means they can read and write the native language (Spanish in Cuba's case) at an acceptable standard.
The problem with Cuba's education system is not basic education, but advanced education. A collage degree from Cuba is worth less than a high school diploma from any western nation. Castro once joked that one of the good things about communism was "even our prostitutes have college degrees".
And its not just Cuba, this kind of problem is common problem with third world nations including the extremely capitalistic ones like India and the Philippines. A Filipina nurse with a degree from a Filipino university will struggle to find work in Hong Kong as anything but a maid, however is she has one from a western university she'll have no trouble finding work in any number of developed nations as nursing staff are in demand almost everywhere.
Most Filipinos can read and write English to a reasonable level (as well as Tagalog, Visyan or another Filipino language) but higher education is a lot more rare. What separates developed nations like the UK or Australia from developing nations isn't adult literacy, its higher education. We may have a lower rate of adult literacy but we have a much higher rate and quality of collage and university graduates.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
actually It was commItted by spaIn on soIl that would eventually become the USA.
All McCarthy did was provide cover for the REAL spies by kicking up so much noise and dirt, destroying a lot of innocent lives in the process.
How many Commies were in the State Department, Senator?
Hint: that's not where they were...
Yeah, Obama did so much that you can't name one legitimate thing that he did. Sorry but the man is a completely worthless blowhard.
Like Michael Moore said, getting Trump into office would be like giving the government a big "fuck you" and would be like throwing a molotov cocktail into their midst. The current US government needs to be destroyed and Trump might be the man to start cleaning house.
well played, sir. well played.
Most people are unaware of the US involvement in pre-Castro Cuba, and would be shocked if they did a little research.
Castro and communism are not my choices for leaders or economic systems, but the US is responsible for overthrowing lots of governments around the world, then acting shocked when a dictator or religious zealot steps in.
Hopefully Trump won't renew the economic oppression of the Cuban people. We have behaved shamefully.
It is healthy as sign and recognition of the crimes against the people of Cuba by the United States and the American embargo. Even with that embargo, the average Cuban has better health and education than the average American. Yes, the Cubans had oil problems, and thus they could not purchase American cars, partially because of the outlaw of Cubans to hold foreign money. As a citizen, you could be opposed to the policies of certain acts of legislature, but not promote policies against the individuals in the government. Even dictatorships had discussions about policies and situations that needed controversy to be resolved.
Canada has a vigorous tourist trade with Cuba. We found crime much lower in Cuba than in the USA. You could walk anywhere and have no fear.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
Let me spell it out. Ask yourself, why is Cuba regarded as a human rights wasteland when our record, comparably, is worse in many areas? How can we live with ourselves - no, how can we not even notice it?
Not that I think the embargo was a particularly good policy, but I have to point out that if your awesome alternative to capitalism specifically requires trade with the US in order to succeed, it's reasonable to wonder if you really have an awesome alternative to capitalism.
An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
That has nothing to do with the intrinsic quality of the higher education there, and everything with preconceived biases.
Fidel Castro was supported by the (regime changing) CIA and military establishment - in what turned out to be one of their biggest fiascos - to overturn the anti-US Batista regime. With the furious infighting in Washington between Kennedy and the entrenched military, the Bay of Pigs was the crowning touch in Castro's consolidation of Cuba.
Russia, fully aware of the Kennedy attitude towards nuclear weapons, 'blinked', and backed down on the shipment of additional armaments to Cuba. What is NOT widely known is that the launch sites were already operational when the naval blockade was enacted, and it was the Russian government that forced Castro to dismantle and remove the missile sites that could have reached about half of the south-eastern US.
Gotta' love the Crazy Idiots Agency and their black-ops for handling the geo-political issues - even before they got their unlimited funding from drug trafficking during the Viet Nam debacle.
redneck geek
Why don't you go and live there for a month and tell me how wonderful it is in Cuba. It's a sewer, except for Fidel. He lived like a billionaire while his people starved.
I anticipate things will change now that the despot is dead. With any luck, that whole bunch will be out of power in another week. Then we can return it to a capitalist society, build it up and make it nice, like Hawaii. Hell, maybe they'll even be the 51st state.
Che, like most things people like to take radically simplified black/white views of, was complicated.
you would do well to learn a little bit of history.
not just the part that justifies your simplistic view of the men, but all of the history.
(in that way you are just like the t-shirt wearing fanboys, you just ignore the opposite parts of history than they do)
Che and Castro both became who they were because of the rampant oppression of Latin American peoples, oppression that stemmed in large part from the protection of US interests or US-based business interests. specifically the Banana Wars (hint: there's a reason they're called "banana republics"), that didn't end until FDR instituted the Good Neighbor Policy in regards to Latin America. Batista was a brutal dictator, propped up by the US. The US Occupation of Nicaragua lasted from 1912 to 1932, only ending when the Great Depression forced the withdrawal of our troops.
There was also: Spanish–American War, Santo Domingo Affair, Second Occupation of Cuba, Border War, Negro Rebellion (actual name), Occupation of Nicaragua, Occupation of Haiti, Occupation of the Dominican Republic, and the Sugar Intervention.
Remember the Panama Canal? Well Panama wasn't a sovereign nation, but a part of Columbia. And we REALLY wanted to build a canal across the isthmus...but Columbia was not being very helpful in the plan, and even opposed it. So we backed the Panamanian Revolution in the Thousand Days War, and then dealt with the new country. Note that construction had already begun at the time of the conflict.
Also note that the occupation of Nicaragua was related, in that it stemmed from our efforts to prevent any other country from constructing a similar canal across Nicaragua, a place we also almost constructed a canal before going with Panama.
The point is there is a long and rich history here. It involves US imperialism, corrupt oligarchic governments (both opposed by the US and supported), and constant suffering of the people.
So is it any wonder that Che, or Castro, or any of the other revolutionaries reacted with animus towards the US, towards the powerful, or rich, or corrupt, or sought independence of their own?
We can talk all day long about whether they themselves fell under the corrupting influence of Power, about how they became supported by Communist Russia ("enemy of my enemy"), and whether or not they failed*, but first you need to correct your lack of education about their origins, about what made them change the paths of their lives (Che began as a medical student, was going to be a doctor) and become the men they did.
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(*note that we may think they failed by our metrics, based on how we view our citizen's lot in life compared to say Cuba's citizens... ...but then consider the mantra among many conservatives in our own country who, even knowing that socialized medicine is cheaper and more effective, that social safety net programs work (re: Europe), but even knowing all that, adopt the mantra of "I'd rather fail on my own terms than succeed by someone else's", and thus eschew ALL social programs or national healthcare etc... ...and consider how similar that worldview is to the view of revolutionary Cubans, Venuzleans, Hondurans, Nicaraguans, or others, who would rather fail without capitalism than succeed with it, even though it means a rougher outcome for themselves?)
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
also...you should probably learn what a serial killer actually is.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
Also, read the book 100 Years of Solitude. it is a fantastic piece of literature, though it may take a read through or two to make complete sense. its a surreal book, but that surrealism itself reflects life in Latin America. the climax of the book is a massacre of striking banana workers, essentially a retelling of the actual Banana Massacre.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
I have to point out that if your awesome alternative to capitalism specifically requires trade with the US in order to succeed, it's reasonable to wonder if you really have an awesome alternative to capitalism.
There are two problems with this.
The first one is that the implementation of a given idea can only work under certain circumstances, there is no absolute in this world. In this case the circumstances were against Cuba, since its biggest neighbour was openly hostile against them and that is a detrimental situation no matter what economic system you use. It is a situation similar to that of Ukraine and Russia, even though Ukraine is much bigger than Cuba and Russia is a smaller economy than the USA.
The second problem is that it wasn't just for the US: the US embargo was meant to hinder any economic relation of Cuba, through retaliation against every subject (nation, company, individual) having business with Cuba. Basically, of all their closest neighbours, Cubans had relations only with Venezuela.
Alger Hiss, convicted of perjury for Lying to the HUAC about committing espionage for the Soviet Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Want to know if a site is a real news site or a fake news site? If the site refers to Castro as a "leader" or "controversial figure" but not as a dictator, it's a fake news site.
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.