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Black Friday Protest Sites Included An Amazon Warehouse (thecourier.co.uk)
An anonymous reader writes:
Friday a group of protesters picketed Amazon's warehouse in Dunfermline, Scotland, alleging workers there face "up to 60 hours per week for little more than the minimum wage," according to an article in The Courier. "They also claim that new workers are tracked and monitored every minute of their working day and sacked if they fail to meet targets... Amazon has dismissed the claims, insisting that the firm values its employees and maintains a 'culture of direct dialogue' with them."
But around the world, more than 1 million people celebrated Buy Nothing Day on Friday, according to the editor in chief of Adbusters, saying their event has now spread to more than 60 countries. The Adbusters.org site suggested protesters stage zombie walks to parody the mindlessness of consumerism, and urged credit card-cutting ceremonies as well as "Whirl-Marts," where large groups of people "silently drive your shopping carts around in a long, inexplicable conga line without ever actually buying anything." The site is also sharing downloadable images which can be printed out for posters "to insert into public spaces."
One prominent retailer even closed both its physical and online stores Friday and gave all of its 12,000 employees the day off, according to USA Today. REI, which sells outdoor recreational equipment, was encouraging people to take advantage of Friday's free admission to many state parks for the second year in a row, and as many as 2.7 million people "pledged to participate" using the company's hashtag, #OptOutside.
But around the world, more than 1 million people celebrated Buy Nothing Day on Friday, according to the editor in chief of Adbusters, saying their event has now spread to more than 60 countries. The Adbusters.org site suggested protesters stage zombie walks to parody the mindlessness of consumerism, and urged credit card-cutting ceremonies as well as "Whirl-Marts," where large groups of people "silently drive your shopping carts around in a long, inexplicable conga line without ever actually buying anything." The site is also sharing downloadable images which can be printed out for posters "to insert into public spaces."
One prominent retailer even closed both its physical and online stores Friday and gave all of its 12,000 employees the day off, according to USA Today. REI, which sells outdoor recreational equipment, was encouraging people to take advantage of Friday's free admission to many state parks for the second year in a row, and as many as 2.7 million people "pledged to participate" using the company's hashtag, #OptOutside.
Silly America. One day they'll learn
just wanted to make sure i was included in the metrics. #fuckblackfriday
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Never mono-oxidize your carbon. The little Caesars deep dish pizza has over 3 1/2 feet of cheese...but where did they put it? In the crust! That's all. You may now look to your left.
I'm a good customer of Amazon's and make multiple purchases pretty much every month, but the protesters have a good point about the working conditions (and according to that NYT piece, that apparently extends to the white collar workforce as well, except maybe for the compensation). More power to them.
I didn't know they still had slavery in Scotland.
It's a job, not slavery, why don't they just quit.
b/c Amazon drove most of the mom and pop stores, as well as many big box retailers like Tower Records and Virgin Music, out of business.
Our local supermarket was partially closed after a bomb hoax. Apparently anti-consumerism is starting to take violent forms.
Amazon has dismissed the claims, insisting that the firm values its employees and maintains a 'culture of direct dialogue' with them
Here's how that "direct dialogue" goes, "Oh, you have a problem with your job? Ok, I'll listen to your complaints while security escorts you out the door."
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Whirl-Marts and any card cutting "services" are a good way to find yourself banned from a property.
And yes folks you can in fact have Private Property with Public Access.
sir.
A lot of minimum wage people would love to get 60 hours a week of work.
Bullshit. REI still had their online store open. They just weren't processing the orders until the next day. They did this scam last year too, and it increased their online sales by a large amount due to the free publicity.
The Walmart effect
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Many big chains (Wal-mart, etc.) have most of the big stuff Thursday night. I can't claim to have bought nothing Friday, but I spent more Thursday. (If you're protesting consumerism, you'd have to protest both days.)
What am I missing here... workers apply for a job, get the job, agree to and get paid a legal wage, get held accountable for what they do, and are sacked if they don't do the job. Am I missing something?
THERE AREN'T ENOUGH JOBS.
I know, why don't they all move to London, that'll fix it.
I didn't know they still had slavery in Scotland.
It's a job, not slavery, why don't they just quit.
Why don't they just quit?, have a good look at the job market in Scotland sometime, and when I say a good look, I mean try and actually get one not just count the vacancies (there is no guarantee a lot of them actually exist - there are various 'numbers games' being played), I say this as someone who does have a job and who deals with people who are either currently unemployed or will soon be in that category again on a weekday basis.
Amazon prey on the fact that there are large pools of available labour they can exploit as and when required, and I have to point out here that they 'Pontius Pilate' the thing to an extent by making sure these 'peons' are employed by agencies, not Amazon themselves, and I do have to point out that some of this 'seasonal' workforce aren't the 'unskilled morons' that some would like to paint them, money is money.
As to slavery...look up 'wage slavery' sometime, there are people in this country struggling to keep both warm and fed, they'll do any shitty job just to keep their heads above the waters financially, and that's what Amazon et al are banking millions off the back of.
Welcome to the 21st fucking century...
You sound like a real piece of shit. I hope you are murdered by a conservative Nazi you fucking piece of shit. Go die.
working 60+ hours a week isn't healthy for one.. unfortunately, placing restrictions on that causes problems elsewhere.
Nobody has adequately explained to me the difference between needing to hold down a job in order to survive and slavery, especially when used in your context.
Welcome to the 21st fucking century...
Same as all the previous centuries? Honestly, all those who think the modern (Western) world is so progressive are really just deluding themselves.
Love is such a strong word. They'd 'like' to be able to work 40 hours a week for the same amount of money they'd get for working 60 even better.
I take being hated by the likes of you as the highest complement.
Thank you - sincerely.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
One prominent retailer even closed both its physical and online stores Friday and gave all of its 12,000 employees the day off, according to USA Today.
Why would you close the online store? Nobody has to be there. Just let everyone know there will be no support on that day and their problems will have to be solved another day. Harbor Freight was among the companies which closed all of their stores, but they had black friday coupon deals on their site.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
the answer is easy, forced higher overtime minimumwage pay
Working at a warehouse doing the remaining things that are just a bit too tricky for a robot to do yet
Anyone interested in this train of thought may enjoy reading Manna: http://www.marshallbrain.com/m...
Probably for the same reason the people crying for bread didn't just eat cake instead.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
how many people are going to miss NOT buying a backpack, tent or sleeping bag for one or two days a year.
How does that compare with other retailers that sell food (human and pet), clothing, tools, automotive oil, coolants etc. and non-pharmaceutical medicines, which people tend to need on a regular basis??
Sorry no. Amazon was still selling used college books back when Tower Records fell. It was the big box retailers like Best Buy, Walmart, etc that killed it. They can lower the prices of the CDs (and DVDs) because they could subsidized those losses with the other high priced items like TVs and kitchen appliances. http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/10/20/450038047/the-life-and-death-of-tower-records-revisited
Some of the haters here don't think of salaried vs hourly paid workers. I am in IT support. First job out of college was a salaried job supporting a stock exchange company. Let's just say I had 3 Christmases I didn't get to celebrate the holiday with family/friends. Did the company offer me extra money for the time I worked on holidays and/or OT? What about a paid day off in leiu of those extra worked hours outside my regular hours? Nope. Nada. Nothing. I quit. I got an hourly position doing the same thing. They want me to work more than my regular 40 and even on holidays? Hell ya! Because I know that when I see that pay check, it will be HUGE!
My only other example is a friend who worked as a salaried peon (not an exec) in a company in the same industry as PWC and Deliott Touche. He had to be available for meetings even if he was on vacation in some remote location in the Himalayas. He quit and found a company that knows the value of personal time. If he had to work on vacation, he got paid in some form or another even if he was still a salaried employee.
Point is whoever thought of paying people one flat rate for the regular hours they worked and no pay increase or some sort of equal non monetary compensation for OT and holidays worked should be shot.
With slavery, you have no ability to either leave a job or to better yourself so you can deserve a better one. Wage slaves have options, even if they may be dismal. I was a wage slave about 15 years ago, and it was certainly far different from anything I have heard about real slavery. Even when working on about $1 over minimum wage, I could afford to go drinking with friends, play video games, have hobbies, have some limited control over my schedule, etc. My life then had more in common with my current upper middle class lifestyle than it did with actual slavery.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
Maybe Amazon should placate the protestors by doing what most companies do these days and give each worker just 20 hours a week instead of 60...
The only way to placate the protester is to pat them on the back for how wonderfully considerate they are. As they care more about the appearance of care than anything else. Welcome to the 'here's my list of complaints...look at how wonderful I am' generation.
b/c Amazon drove most of the mom and pop stores, as well as many big box retailers like Tower Records and Virgin Music, out of business.
Mom and Pop used to work 70 hours a week keeping their stores running.
Why should such jobs pay much?
I guess it depends on your view of how an economy works.
I canna say how it works in Scotland, but here in the states if you are working a minimum wage job, a whole world of government subsidized services are opened to you.
It's an interesting conundrum, as the largest employer in the US would claim that raising the minimum wage is a socialist or at least anti-capitalist action, while fully knowing that it allows their workforce to be subsidized by the taxpayers. Purposeful socialism under the guise of capitalism.
And here's the interesting part of that whole scenario. As we travel down this road, unless we start killing those at the bottom rung, the old threat of automating the job loses it's power, because since they are already on the dole from the start, it might make more sense to just stop working altogether. Brought to us by the people whose words say one thing, and actions, another.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
there are people in this country struggling to keep both warm and fed, they'll do any shitty job just to keep their heads above the waters financially, and that's what Amazon et al are banking millions off the back of. Welcome to the 21st fucking century...
Yes, there are many people struggling, but in comparison with other centuries they have it a heck of a lot better overall. I'd much rather be a struggling wage earner today over one 50 or a hundred years ago. Its not even close.
I suppose we'll help all these struggling workers by not buying stuff. Lets eliminate the need for the few jobs that are available!
b/c Amazon drove most of the mom and pop stores, as well as many big box retailers like Tower Records and Virgin Music, out of business.
Mom and Pop used to work 70 hours a week keeping their stores running.
They were the owners, not the hired help
Amazon should give the workers the fucking option of of not working overtime. When I was unemployed I was asked to go along to a recruitment thing for Amazon by my job advisor, I walked ourt of it after about 10 minutes when they made it clear that overtime was mandatory, I was (and still am) a single parent it wasn't reasonable for me to do that many hours.
I'm sure some people would jump at the chance of overtime, but is it right to force your employees into it?
where large groups of people "silently drive your shopping carts around in a long, inexplicable conga line without ever actually buying anything."
How sadistic! Why not just ask people to stay at home and do whatever - play w/ the kids, watch their favorite show, cook, do whatever, instead of causing those store employees to stand at their checkout counters waiting for the next customers!
Masochism; The post.
Walmart pays poorly because the jobs it hires people for are mostly unskilled labor. Training consists of "take this, put it there". The alternative to "subsidizing Walmart" is that they get nothing from Walmart and everything from the government. Which is cheaper?
Raising the minimum wage is just shifting the burden of welfare funding from the public to Walmart, which will have to raise prices to compensate. As their entire business model is "sell stuff cheap to poor people", you are risking killing one of the most successful businesses ever in order to achieve your social goals. And, at the end, who gets screwed? The poor who shop at Walmart.
Walmart pays poorly because the jobs it hires people for are mostly unskilled labor. Training consists of "take this, put it there". The alternative to "subsidizing Walmart" is that they get nothing from Walmart and everything from the government. Which is cheaper?
Now just between you and me, there is money to be made at Walmart. And like it or not, the higher paid positions are not exactly rocket science either.
As for your interesting "what the market will bear" remark, it should be cheaper in the end to have WalMart pay a wage that allows it's employees to survive without government assistance. That's simple efficiency. You can't have it both ways of wanting government subsidies because cheap, while banging a free market drum.
Raising the minimum wage is just shifting the burden of welfare funding from the public to Walmart, which will have to raise prices to compensate.
What the holy baby jeebuz in a pup tent? If a person is working and getting paid, and living off it - it isn't welfare.
And dear Coward, if Walmart can't pay a wage that allows it's employees to not have to take money from the government, perhaps it is using a flawed business model, and should do what the market does to failed business models. Puts them out of business.
As their entire business model is "sell stuff cheap to poor people", you are risking killing one of the most successful businesses ever in order to achieve your social goals. And, at the end, who gets screwed? The poor who shop at Walmart.
Sounds awesome. Make everyone poor as possible so they can shop at Walmart.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
You just can't dangle that claim and not tell us how. List the way, otherwise all you have is BS.
You did not address any of the points laid out. Whether you agree with them or not, those were fairly reasoned arguments. You resorted to toddler name calling. The old internet with higher barriers of entry was more erudite.
Interestingly, I drove around Seattle last week and saw half a dozen 'mom and pop' record stores and zero Tower Records.
WalMart has competitors. If it pays much more than the competition, it will lose money. If it pays much less than the competition, it will lose employees. WalMart's advantages of efficient systems and tough negotiations with suppliers are not enough to allow them to successfully pretend that nobody else is competing with them.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
There's an additional advantage to working compared to being on the dole. You learn skills, your attitude is different. You are a better person. Yes, I do mean that if you're receiving government assistance you're inferior.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Amazon was already well established selling CDs by then. In 1997 Amazon was big enough to be sued by Barnes and Noble, and that didn't happen by selling just "used college books".
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Then end welfare, and Walmart will have to pay higher wages, right?
a million people in the world? ha, might as well have been zero for any impact, the multi-billion dollar megacorps couldn't care.
The maximum legal working length in the UK is normally 48 hours, so 60, if habitual, is a matter of concern. 60 is allowable for peak periods provided it is optional.
"I canna say how it works in Scotland, but here in the states if you are working a minimum wage job, a whole world of government subsidized services are opened to you."
â_ This is not exactly how things work in the states. You actually lose benefits when you start working minimum wage. Even more the government subsidies are barely enough to sustain yourself and family, and also come with a number of conditions. I know it is be hard for those whose only experience with this come from right wing propaganda to understand this. But the reality is all your tax dollars are not going to the poor, they are going to the pockets of your fearless White Christian leaders.
>there are a HUGE number of salaried office workers across America working longer hours per week
/. and getting paid for it, because I'm "working" in my office. From your tax dollars, no less. And yet without a drop of guilt, because my pay is low and the work I actually do contributes more to society than yours ever will.
Ha ha ha, oh wow you're serious. You're seriously comparing their working conditions.
I'll finish laughing at you when you get back from your legally mandated 5-minute bathroom break. In fact, make it six, you've earned it.
We are going to pick the biggest millstone you can carry, then deliberately double it. We will intentionally fuck you up the ass until you quit, because otherwise we're just wasting the desperate proles lined up outside. We'll sacrifice them on the altar, because the margins say so.
Meanwhile, I'll be delivering chemo like this on
I don't have illusions about my work being "hard" or "skilled" rocket surgery either. The biggest factor in acquiring my comfortable life was sheer fucking chance. I'm surrounded by people who "studied" and "work hard" to come out worse than me, because that bullshit doesn't matter, that bullshit is a story you tell them at bedtime so we can all pretend we deserve what we have.
There's an additional advantage to working compared to being on the dole. You learn skills
Really? Quoting from a post further up the chain, "Working at a warehouse doing the remaining things that are just a bit too tricky for a robot to do yet, is not at all hard nor requires any skill." So which is it?
your attitude is different
Perhaps. I'm guessing you're going for the "I want free stuff gimme gimme gimme" as opposed to learning to work for it. However, it's dubious that people working for minimum wage can afford much other than to pay for rent/electricity/gas/food in the first place. One might breed entitlement, however the other breeds contempt. These are different, yes, but whether it is an improvement or not is an entirely different matter.
You are a better person. Yes, I do mean that if you're receiving government assistance you're inferior.
You have your head stuck so far up your own ass I'm not sure if it's possible to shout loud enough for you to hear this, but you are a fucking asshole. America has shitty welfare to begin with - most of the people on it are "working poor" - they work, but don't earn enough to make ends meet. Government is basically subsidizing shitty corporate culture that doesn't pay enough for people to live on.
The one who needs a serious attitude adjustment is you.
WalMart has competitors. If it pays much more than the competition, it will lose money. If it pays much less than the competition, it will lose employees. WalMart's advantages of efficient systems and tough negotiations with suppliers are not enough to allow them to successfully pretend that nobody else is competing with them.
So what you are saying is that competition demands lowering wages to stay competitive, so we race to the bottom of figuring out a way to pay people nothing at all, or as close to it as possible. So these companies will be hauling in the cash lake crazy from all of the money they'll make when no one can afford to buy anything because the ultimate goal is to lower the wages to the point where 100 percent of the pay is devoted to survival eating.
It's unskilled labor, fuck 'em they can die and the company will save 100 percent of their salary then. Your argument reduces to that you would support WalMart paying nothing, and my tax dollars paying for the employees entire living. That would indeed be competitive and a great advantage for WalMart and any other retail outfit. Then the people living off my tax dollars will spend wht they have at WallMart, and......PROFIT!
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
You have your head stuck so far up your own ass I'm not sure if it's possible to shout loud enough for you to hear this, but you are a fucking asshole. America has shitty welfare to begin with - most of the people on it are "working poor" - they work, but don't earn enough to make ends meet. Government is basically subsidizing shitty corporate culture that doesn't pay enough for people to live on.
The one who needs a serious attitude adjustment is you.
One meme that won't go away is the concept that there are people spending their entire lives on welfare. Most, and maybe all welfare programs today are very limited both in time and money. But the memes are the same from the 70's.
It is an uncomfortable part of life, that despite what we are told, all of us cannot be anything we want to be. There is a whole subset of humans who are not capable of more skilled or intellectual activities.
So what do we do with these less fortunate or less ambitious people? Eugenics is pretty distasteful as well as a big moral problem. Joe Libertarian might not like it when the tests show little Johnny is subnormal in intelligence and drive, so her has to be taken away and recycled, even though he makes a convincing argument of "adapt or die" for other people's children. All a matter of perspective.
It isn't a question of do we make people at the bottom of the employment ladder wealthy. Being able to survive without Government handouts is not being wealthy.
It isn't a question of the jobs at the bottom of the employment ladder being jobs for high school kids. I haven't seen a person under 30 at any McDonald's I've been in for years.
A very uncomfortable fact that those people are trying to make a living off those jobs because they don't have any other jobs they can do. Maybe they were working in that factory down the road that closed. Now they are at McD's or WalMart.
So we've been having a big shift in jobs that 20 years ago were considered Workplace entry level are now "careers". And the kicker is that the companies hiring these folks have managed to work out that the taxpayer funds a large part of these folk's living expenses - and people who might otherwise claim they are capitalists or Libertarian seem to be just fine with this!
In a real pay as you go world, anyone working full time at a legal job would make enough to pay the rent and put food on the table without government handouts. And anyone having a problem with that is living in a weird fantasy world where they can hold 2 opposing viewpoints at the same time.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Funny, because I heard about this guy named Joseph who went from being a slave to being a high up official in Egypt. Funny how we hear different things about being a slave.