Slashdot Mirror
Religious Experiences Have Similar Effect On Brain As Taking Drugs, Study Finds (cnn.com)
A new study published in the journal Social Neuroscience finds through functional MRI scans that religious and spiritual experiences can trigger reward systems like love and drugs. "These are areas of the brain that seem like they should be involved in religious and spiritual experience. But yet, religious neuroscience is such a young field -- and there are very few studies -- and ours was the first study that showed activation of the nucleus accumbens, an area of the brain that processes reward," said Dr. Jeffrey Anderson, a neuroradiologist at the University of Utah and lead author of the study. CNN reports: For the study, 19 devout young adult Mormons had their brains scanned in fMRI machines while they completed various tasks. The tasks included resting for six minutes, watching a six-minute church announcement about membership and financial reports, reading quotations from religious leaders for eight minutes, engaging in prayer for six minutes, reading scripture for eight minutes, and watching videos of religious speeches, renderings of biblical scenes and church member testimonials. During the tasks, participants were asked to indicate when they were experiencing spiritual feelings. As the researchers analyzed the fMRI scans taken of the participants, they took a close look at the degree of spiritual feelings each person reported and then which brain regions were simultaneously activated. The researchers found that certain brain regions consistently lit up when the participants reported spiritual feelings. The brain regions included the nucleus accumbens, which is associated with reward; frontal attentional, which is associated with focused attention; and ventromedial prefrontal cortical loci, associated with moral reasoning, Anderson said. Since the study results were seen only in Mormons, Anderson said, more research is needed to determine whether similar findings could be replicated in people of other faiths, such as Catholics or Muslims.
more research is needed to determine whether similar findings could be replicated in people of other faiths, such as Catholics or Muslims.
Or favorite sports teams, or social movements, or fandoms, or whatever else makes people tick.
"Religion is a helluva drug." And far more destructive than heroin.
You could say it's the opiate of the people.
This is your brain on religion.
watching a six-minute church announcement about membership and financial reports
That's right. The submission told us so. Alright, the joke is: "So how many of the Mormons felt religious feelings by listening the financial reports of their church? All of them?"
It really is the opiate of the masses.
Trust us, its going to be alright...after one go, they always come back
-Christ's Addicts
If you pray, you're basically circumventing drug access controls. Also, cerebrospinal fluid should be banned due to its DMT content (not to mention vision problems in space).
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
WHy dont they study that people who believe in religion are gullible, stupid or fools for accepting something important as truth without bothering to check the facts.
Only 19 persons were tested. All were from the same religion. There was no control set of non-religious individuals tested to see if the MRI scans were indeed representative of "religious and spiritual experience".
Most important, the Slashdot headline "Religious Experiences Have Similar Effect On Brain As Taking Drugs, Study Finds " differs from the title of the original study report. In the original report, the title is "Reward, salience, and attentional networks are activated by religious experience in devout Mormons", clearly limiting the scope of the study to one religion.
One conclusion that might come out of this is that it's sometimes appropriate to treat religion as an illness, as drug addictions are treated. Now, this is done today for some people in cults, generally by their relatives and against their will. It brings up all sorts of problems regarding freedom of belief. For some people, religion appears to be a beneficial part of their personality. When does it become an illness?
Before you dismiss this, consider how many people historically, and today, are killed for religious reasons or at least by people who use religion as an excuse. People of my ethnicity haven't forgotten the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust, etc.
Bruce Perens.
They might be quite similar. Irony.
This forum Sig is licensed under the LGPL.
Sounds like Marx was right about that.
Similar Effect On Brain As Taking Drugs, Study Finds
So does sport, sex, good food, and so on. Anything satisfying acts like a drug, without the drug side effects.
...had this nailed decades ago! "I used to be all messed up on drugs, man. Now, I'm all messed up on the Lord!"
is usually what I say from certain weed that gives me hardcore munchies and makes me pig out. On the other hand first time I did shrooms a few months back and was like damn should have done this 20 years ago, mind you a bad acid trip at a night club put me off psychedelics so never go to shrooms. Good combo 1 gram of shrooms in chocolate and some spiced rum and a bit of MDAM + watching Star Trek.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Why I always get the munchies in church.
Think 60s/70s. Went twice on Sunday, then Wed night. I was 10 or 11 when I started asking questions that got answered by "ya gotta have faith". Um, if I had faith I wouldn't be asking these questions.
Older I got the more I hated church. Not gonna lie, there were a lot of days when I thought about opening the car door and jumping out of the car. On the freeway. To this day I don't dress up, nor do I sing in public.
Then Wizard of Oz was shown on Wednesdays for a few years in a row. I'd heard a lot about it, never seen it, wanted to see it. But no, I had to go to church Wednesday nights, cuz reasons.
Moved out when I was 18. Only time I've been in a church since was when mom died 4 years ago. Dad keeps asking me to go to church with him, I demurr, he doesn't understand why I won't go.
During my 20's and half my 30's, whenever I found someone was religious I'd goad them. Actively tried to piss them off. I grew out of that.
I think if you have a rational, questioning mind, church is either a social thing or pure BS.
So we have conclusive proof that religion really is the opiate of the masses.
But yet, religious neuroscience is such a young field...
Um, this could be slicing it up a bit much.
Cheech and Chong noticed this years ago....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
I used to be all messed up on drugs, man. Now I'm all messed up on the Lord."
And a simulated universe.... Our world wold be a dull place if it were not for religion... not at all worth watching. :)
Fuck religion! I'd rather take a bong hit.
Seriously, these little chickies provide me so much pleasure! I love them so much!
Please don't stop your oppressive ways. It manifests in so much pussy juice!
I grew up in a Mormon (LDS) family, and don't remember too many significant feelings of the sort mentioned in the article. I eventually concluded the church was pulling my leg and dropped out.
However, I once was visiting Utah on an informal tour of "important" LDS buildings, and had a strange feeling that brought me back to the days when I did believe. It was sort of euphoric relief that an omnipotent father figure "has our back" and that we, the LDS, are on the good team. It's roughly comparable to your town's sports team winning a big game where the crowd feels a togetherness and collective strength.
I thought to myself, "Why am I having this feeling, I don't believe any of it." After pondering it for a while, I concluded that the tour triggered memories AND feelings of my younger days when I did believe.
There's also negative experiences related to it, the reverse of the above, but they are kind of personal. Religion is a crazy mind-game either way. If you grew up with it, you can never get it out of your head: it shapes your thought process in that your mind-model of the world uses idioms from the religion. These idioms become a kind of meta language of the mind.
For example, when I think of user usage log files, it triggers the concept that "God knows your every move, thought, and action". I don't actually believe that, but my mind uses that as the conceptual idiom for what log files do.
Hierarchical file systems remind me of the church hierarchy. LDS-ers talk a lot about their organizational structure; sticking portraits of leaders on their walls. God is into org hierarchies I guess. I suspect it's actually an fringe ego benefit because most leaders have zero or small salaries from the church: it's largely volunteered "labor". The top leaders are usually wealthy by other means.
The idea of other planets is natural to LDS-ers because of the concepts like planet Kolob (which is not official doctrine actually, long story). Thus, an enjoyment of space sci-fi came natural.
I like to document rules, procedures, and assumptions; which may be traced back to scriptures, commandments, and rule lists like what LDS calls "Words of Wisdom", which the "coffee is bad" concept derives from. It also says oats are bad, but for some reason that's not enforced and barely mentioned. Go figure. (I almost typed "barley mentioned").
I'd call Islam a cult bent bent on world domination. Convert or die.
Being LDS is like being on LSD!
I'm so funny. (Lifelong believing mormon here.)
islam are a race but muslim are a fabric stupid
The brain, a bio-chemical machine, has measurable state changes when you ask it to do something else.
If it changes state when you think of X and doesn't change when you think of anything else, then X is interesting.
From the bulk of functional MRI experiments, this is not the case, so this experiment is not evidence that X is special.
New theory:
Perhaps X is special in that it appears to have a negative effect on folks ability for critical thinking.
At least with drugs you may voluntarily find a way to quit, and people are here to help you do that. Most of the religious people I know are so deeply and blindly involved in their own beliefs that nobody may change their mind, ever.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Bill Wilson (founder of Alcoholics Anonymous) got into LSD after 20 years of sobriety. He wanted to distribute it to all the meetings in the country. He found it almost replicated his initial spiritual experience that lead him to found AA.
It would've been really interesting to do the study but have non-believer do the same thing and compare the response.
That would be muslin.
Drugs made me feel bored. clumsy, stupid and paranoid.
Yeah, sounds a lot like religion, actually.
That conclusion can no more come out of this research than could the idea that listening to music is an illness.
The research simply said that people reporting a positive experience showed activity in the reward centers of their brains. Big surprise! Hey, going outside in the sunshine activates the reward center of my brain, maybe that's an illness too.
The slashdot headline is there because people who are irrational and partisan want to ignore what the research actually said and use lies about it to bludgeon others. Your silly attempt to join the dogpile amounts to using your fame to act as a bully. It's shameful.
I think my church is a sedative.
Except in the case of modern Christians it's cutting you off from work, society, etc.
Passes the popcorn
Whahaha you don't know your history. Christians never did that you think? Even mother Theresa wasn't that holy my love...Hahahahaha!
We have RainBow Dash.
DUH!!!
of course religious experiences trigger the reward bits of the brain
THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF THE LABELING!
I'd call Islam a cult bent bent on world domination. Convert or die.
That's exactly how Christianity became a dominant religion. Convert or die and if anybody thinks that I'm trying to defend Islam here, think again. I dislike all the Abrahamic religions equally since they are all missionary and violent.
Don't ALL subjectively enjoyable experiences have the same effect on the brain, releasing dopamine and serotonin, and activating particular pathways? Not only religion and drugs, but also sex and chocolate and cat videos and the election of your preferred candidate?
How neuro-chemical changes caused by some drugs at the level of neurotransmitters could be compared to a much higher "language" level?
If we talk about similarities in operand conditioning, why, almost everything that is not hardwired (instincts, reflexes, environmental conditioning) is operand conditioning (cultural, social, linguistic, dogmatic).
So everything has similar effect with any other feedback based conditioning. Is this what we call hipster meme-science?
Publish any sophisticated crap to gain attantion?
And you'd be wrong. Just think about it - if you were right, everyone would be dead or Muslim. As that's patently not the case, you are incorrect.
So they discovered that participating in what they have been brought up to rejoice and be in awe of actually causes them joy. I'd be more surprised if the result were the opposite.
That's why people sign up and most never get rid of these delusions because it makes them feel good about themselves. They realize that santa and the easter bunny are not real, somehow they can't do the same thing with their deity and it's prophets.
In my teens I praticed meditation in general and, more specifically, what is called "astral projection", basically inducing out-of-body-experiences. I practiced it for six years just about every evening. In the end I finally made it, achieving that higher state of mind, where you experience the buzzing and humming, your body shrinking and your soul expanding and see "the tunnel" and such. It's the most intense state of being I've ever experienced and I doubt any drug can push you further. You're basically hyper-awake while it happens. And it's scary. Turns out we don't like to leave our body most of the time. :-)
The difference in state of mind and awareness compared to normal as normal compares to vivid, semi-lucent dreaming. I stopped it after this event, but one effect is that I don't fear death as much as I used to.
I cant say for sure that we are still around after death, like the mystics like to point out, but it sure felt like it.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
learn to spell. you were raised by islam werent you?
I'd call Islam a cult bent bent on world domination. Convert or die.
That's exactly how Christianity became a dominant religion. Convert or die and if anybody thinks that I'm trying to defend Islam here, think again. I dislike all the Abrahamic religions equally since they are all missionary and violent.
What do you mean? The crusades were full of very reasonable gentlemen going door to door offering to share their love of jesus with you. If you said no they gave you a piece of cake and went next door. Am I thinking of the right thing?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
So thats how you're thinking about it ? Dude, if your logic were true there could be only one person on earth any time. In other words, You attribute islam followers unstoppable powers.
... and eating... and sex... and exercise... and anything else that produces a hormonal endorphin response.
Religious experiences also have some of the hallmarks of mental illness. I suppose the DSM IV should have criteria like this: Did the voice in your head identify itself as God? Yes? Phew, you're not schizophrenic and have nothing to worry about.
We'll make great pets
How are the crusades any different than today? We are actively trying to eliminate all the radical muslims that we can...we just do it safely from unmanned drones. It was a political response to the violent spread of Islam, very much like today.
First of all, I'd like to distinguish between what is called a religious experience and what might be called a spiritual experience. Lets not flame this please. Many years ago, I went to a meditation camp let by Pir Vilyat Khan, the sufi leader in the US. This was held in an open air tent with a couple of hundred people. At one time, we chanted the Zhikr. The actual transation of the words were unimportant (I don't speak arabic), but the sounds resonate. I found myself having an experience as somekind of self observer--kind of looking down on myself from outside, watching my thoughts but not being connected to any of them. Kind of like a description of the Buddhist observer description. At one point however, a thought came up, "who is watching the watcher". This caused be to experience being back in my body. I had a similar experience doing a chant from the Kabbalah and is similar to the descriptions in "The Cloud of Unknowing" by a christian monk. When my son was 10 years old, his mother had him on ADD drugs. When he came to visit me, I had him do a short meditation. He told me that it felt similar to taking the medication (which he was not doing when he visited me).
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!" -- Dr. Strangelove
I dislike all the Abrahamic religions equally since they are all missionary and violent.
actually the Jews aren't missionary - but hey, that's not enough to like them either, for me.
They are all radical
Why is it worth looking for experimental proof that when people feel emotions, their brain chemistry will be involved in the experience? This is already well understood. I don't understand the point of this study at all. You might as well conduct experiments to determine whether water is wet. Was there any question that a religious experience is also an emotional one? ANYTHING deeply felt will be physically manifested. Duh.
Man, I hope the taxpayers didn't pay for this.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
"The inquisition" comprises a combined series of undertakings beginning with Pope Lucius III's instigation in 1184 CE and terminating in 1834 CE - a span of about 650 years. The Spanish Inquisition was one chapter of this, but by no means can be reasonably considered an isolated or peak event.
Perhaps you'll find this of interest.
Historically speaking, Christianity, between the inquisitions, the crusades, the pograms, blood libel, and just general oppression of various and sundry kinds, has a great deal of theism-based violence to answer for.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Quite true.
How are the crusades any different than today? We are actively trying to eliminate all the radical muslims that we can...we just do it safely from unmanned drones. It was a political response to the violent spread of Islam, very much like today.
How is it different? Because then we went over there in great numbers and killed basically everyone who didn't convert radical or not. Nowadays we're more discreet about it and all we really give a shit about is the oil.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Was it like crack, MDA, heroin or what? Let me guess, they were happy doing what they enjoyed and surprise surprise, they enjoyed it. Nothing to see here.
Religious folks have been claiming for years that they help people feel more loved. That prayer can help you feel better and to form a bond with god. Also, they claim has been made for many years that part of the reason we experience that feeling is because we were created for relationship with God.
So nice to see some scientific confirmation that praying and loving feel good.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
M-U-S-L-I-N
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslin
The contents of this message have been doubly encrypted by ROT13
There is a known 3x risk of psychosis among religious users. It causes changes in the brain. It affects the reward system in the brain. Religion must be stopped! It's totally unregulated and is regularly exposed to kids who are unable to give informed consent.
" Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people."
Seems he was correct,.
I'll take cocaine and a stripper over going to church every single time and twice on Sunday.
I'd call Islam a cult bent bent on world domination. Convert or die.
Yup, just like Christianity was, back when it could get away with lopping your head off on a whim.
Christians would still love to be able to do that kind of thing, and they're jealous as hell that Islam is so upfront about it.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Ever look into the eyes of the televangelists or the preachers of mega churches? These jokers are high on their own neurotransmitters.
So, Timmy Leary was right in the first place, back in the sixties....
According to another article on today's /. feed, users of pot, a drug, have lower blood flow to the brain. This, according to the study, is a harmful effect.
This article states that religious thoughts have similar effects on the brain as drugs.
Ergo, religious thoughts are dangerous?
Radical Muslim....that's redundant.
I was raised in the Assembly of God church, a "full-gospel" or "Pentecostal" tradition. The movie "Jesus Camp" was basically how I spent a few weeks every summer. Baptism in the Holy Spirit is manifested by speaking in tongues, also called glossolalia. The sensation of losing control of your verbal faculties is very ... bizarre. It is a strangely compelling reason to believe in an invisible man in the sky.
Fast forward a few years. In college, I was getting stoned with some friends. One of them had been to church with me as a kid. She pointed out that at a particularly high point in the evening, I started speaking in tongues. I found this very interesting, and the sensation was indeed similar to what I had experienced in church. There is definitely something to the whole "opiate of the masses" thing. Drugs and religion very clearly change the function of the brain in dramatic ways.
They make good accountants, plus who else would run the movie biz as well?
And just like drugs, religion and the people who indulge in it are utterly repulsive to me.
I'd call Islam the same thing I call all religion: something that is 'interpreted', spun, taken out of context, bent, perverted, and twisted by power-seeking persons looking to control as much of a population as possible.
There was once a group called 'Gnostics', and what they were about, was seeking actual truth, as individuals. They had no centralized, hierarchical power structure. What at the time was called 'Christianity', committed genocide on them.
Who is waiting for the separation between radicals and believers?
Bush and his CRUSADE (sic) didn't, and murdered over 1 million innocent Iraqis.
120,000 Christians signed up for this CRUSADE.
I can see it now... the DEA controlling religion as a mind-altering substance.
Hmmm...
So more accurately, drugs stimulate the same reward centers of the brain that meaningful, rewarding activities like religious activities, doing well at work, being in a good, healthy relationship etc. (FTFY)
Not sure how this is news, seeing that we have known for decades that illegal drugs that are addictive do this. This is just an ass backwards stab at religion. If you want to judge religions, go for it, but judge them based on what they do, not how it makes people feel to engage in their religious activities. Some religions are rewarding because they actually objectively do good in the world.
A long time ago I boiled it down to these fundamentals. Some practitioners are better than others, but in theory this is what each religion yields if you take it to it's extreme practice:
-Hindu: we are constantly reincarnated, so let people starve while cattle eat your crops because it could be grandma
-Muslim: Muslims are superior, the whole world must be under Sharia law, convert or we will enslave you or cut your head off
-Atheist: there is no higher order, we happened by accident so my personal morality is all that matters, if our morality differs, mine takes precedent
-Buddhist: the world is suffering so even if others suffer, its OK as long as I attain peace and enlightenment
-Christian: love God and love and care for your fellow human the same as you do yourself
If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
Can we finally start sending parents to jail for fucking up their kids with religion, just like we do with parents that fuck them up with drugs?
Maybe, in a generation or two, we can finally get rid of all the fucktards that think that the earth is only 6,000 years old, that men used to hunt dinosaurs, and that everything was created in six days by a bearded white man who lives in the clouds and hates gay people and foreigners.
Religions are just ~2000 years old;
:(
And Humans are ~200,000 years old;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_ancient_history
Religion was born when first con-man met the first fool
"Earth is Flat" --Religion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_earth
Casteism
That's it, the smoking gun, religion needs to be immediately classified as a Schedule One Drug.
Stop the madness!
"If Hitler intended to kill 6 million Jews he would have done it by now"
A.Frank, 1941.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."