PC Market Shows Signs of Recovery (betanews.com)

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PC Market Shows Signs of Recovery (betanews.com)

Posted by msmash on Wednesday November 30, 2016 @06:10AM from the shape-of-things-to-come dept.

PC shipments will continue to decline in 2016, according to a new IDC forecast, but the drop will be slightly lower than previously expected. What's more, things will improve even more in 2017. BetaNews adds: IDC expects PC vendors to ship a total of 258.2 million units this year, a figure which would be 6.4 percent lower than last year. The previous estimate was a 7.2 percent fall, which IDC announced in August. Growth will still be negative in 2017, but shipments are expected to decrease by just 2.6 percent compared to this year. IDC believes that commercial shipments of notebooks will grow this year, while desktops should stay flat in terms of growth. The pressure from mobile devices is said to decrease as the markets mature. The tablet market, in particular, is not as big of a concern or threat as it sees declining shipments as well. "The PC market continues to perform close to expectations", says IDC Worldwide Tracker Forecasting and PC research vice president Loren Loverde. "Some volatility in emerging regions is being offset by incremental gains in larger mature markets while the interaction with tablets and phones is stabilizing. We continue to see steady progression toward smaller desktops and notebooks as replacement buying helps stabilize overall shipments in the coming years".

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Wait until they find out by tripleevenfall · 2016-11-30 06:16 · Score: 1

2017 will be the Year of Linux on the Desktop! :)
1. Re:Wait until they find out by tripleevenfall · 2016-11-30 06:23 · Score: 1
  
  I don't see this as a big deal... the rate PC sales are declining has slowed a bit, although it's still steadily declining. There are always going to be some places where you can't get around having a box, where it's more convenient to have one, or where it's cheaper to have one.
  I think when mobile matures to the point of being fully functional as a PC replacement you'll see the bottom of the PC market fall out all at once.
  As soon as we aren't deciding between a box or a virtual PC to run that LCD, but the LCD runs itself through an app and doesn't need to be wired to anything but power, then the PC will go the way of the dodo. We're not quite there yet for enterprise.
2. Re:Wait until they find out by mark-t · 2016-11-30 06:41 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I think when mobile matures to the point of being fully functional as a PC replacement
  Which will be never.... advances to technology that might otherwise place mobile tech more in line with desktop pcs tend to improve the performance of desktop pc's as well, so the target of being on par with the desktop is a moving one that cannot be reached unless somehow progress was only being made to improve the mobile platform experience that didn't also improve the performance of desktops as well.
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
3. Re:Wait until they find out by geekmux · 2016-11-30 06:46 · Score: 1
  
  I don't see this as a big deal...
  Given the fact that this was the Year of the Telemetry desktop for Windows, as well as that abysmal Fuck-You-That's-Why proprietary offering from the "Pros" at Apple, I'd say it's a big deal. Linux becomes more and more attractive by the minute when considering the alternatives.
  
  the rate PC sales are declining has slowed a bit, although it's still steadily declining. There are always going to be some places where you can't get around having a box, where it's more convenient to have one, or where it's cheaper to have one.
  I think when mobile matures to the point of being fully functional as a PC replacement you'll see the bottom of the PC market fall out all at once.
  As soon as we aren't deciding between a box or a virtual PC to run that LCD, but the LCD runs itself through an app and doesn't need to be wired to anything but power, then the PC will go the way of the dodo. We're not quite there yet for enterprise.
  Keep in mind the mainstream endgame is a sealed box devoid of any standards-based connections wrapped in a proprietary OS riddled with privacy-robbing "features". With that kind of shit to look forward to, the death of the PC will be dependent on how much the masses enjoy paying hundreds of dollars every 2-3 years for the new-and-not-so-improved sealed box. The cellular model will replace the desktop model, and the cellular model from a financial perspective sucks ass.
  The options being presented these days make it a nightmare to consider running hardware for more than a few years, and gone are the days of popping the hood to DIY some upgrades to avoid shoving the whole damn thing in a landfill prematurely.
4. Re:Wait until they find out by Higaran · 2016-11-30 06:52 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Mobile will never fully replace the PC market, yes your phone might have plenty of CPU power, but when you get to your office you're not going to work on massive spread sheets or do hours of data entry on it. Phones and tablets might replace most PC's for home use, but they are realistically just a supplement to the pc's of the business world.
5. Re:Wait until they find out by DickBreath · 2016-11-30 06:54 · Score: 1
  
  Linux on the desktop may be here or on the horizon, but not recognizable in a form we expected in 2000.
  
  PC sales decline year after year, and as this article points out, continue to decline, just not as fast. At the same time Chromebooks (aka Linux) have outsold Windows laptops on Amazon for years now. While Linux Phones, Linux Tablets, and Linux "laptops" may not yet be dominant, the rate of new unit shipments far exceed that of new Windows PCs. A couple billion mobile phones get turned over every couple years.
  
  In the early days of microcomputers, it was obvious that the progress in microcomputer development was vastly quicker than IBM's big computers. Would microcomputers replace mainframes? Well, yes, they did. But not in the way that might have been expected, behind glass windows. Instead it was managers who could order an Apple II with Visicalc within their own purchasing authority limits, and put it on their own desk, without talking to the mainframe guys. Just like how 15 years ago Linux servers were springing up like weeds, for similar reasons. No license or purchase hoops. And now Linux dominates servers. My point is that Linux dominating the every day man computing experience (aka, "linux on the desktop") may not arrive in a form we expected to see it.
  
  --
  
  I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
6. Re:Wait until they find out by The-Ixian · 2016-11-30 06:58 · Score: 1
  
  I think when mobile matures to the point of being fully functional as a PC replacement you'll see the bottom of the PC market fall out all at once.
  It will never be as fully functional as is.
  To be as functional, you would need a full sized physical keyboard and at least 1 large (19" or greater) monitor.
  So... a phone, as it is, will never be as functional as a PC. At least not until we have a way to interface better than with a tiny touch screen.
  The PC market will die as soon as a phone sized device is able to drive 5760x1080 or higher screen resolutions while rendering modern 3d or virtual reality content at 60fps or higher.
  Either that or the computational power of the cloud becomes so ubiquitous and inexpensive, that you don't need anything more than a dumb terminal and a lot of bandwidth. All of the content and computations will be done on the back end and you will only see the result of that streamed to your device like an interactive TV show. This still has the interface problem though.
  So, my feeling is that the death of PCs will come when:
  - Bandwidth is basically free AND
  - Cloud computing is basically free
  or
  - Better interfaces are designed for mobile devices AND
  - Mobile devices and PCs reach parity in performance (use the same chips or whatever we are using by that time)
  
  --
  My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
7. Re:Wait until they find out by DickBreath · 2016-11-30 07:04 · Score: 1
  
  I wouldn't be so quick to say never.
  
  People once said that our "toy" microcomputers would never replace the mainframe.
  
  There comes a point in the ever increasing processing power that even mobile will simply have more than enough compute horsepower to do what most every day people need to do. We might already even be there or very close.
  
  There will always be comfortable desktop workstations. Mouse, big screens. But most people may one day use their mobile device as the "computer" for the workstation. Eg, the desktop workstation is little more than a docking station for the mobile device of whatever user is seated at the desk.
  
  There will also always be people who need exceptional amounts of power similar in form to the tower boxes of today.
  
  --
  
  I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
8. Re:Wait until they find out by Ravaldy · 2016-11-30 07:06 · Score: 1
  
  I hate to say it but you are very WRONG. You are assuming that what you don't know won't happen. Hear me out for a second.
  - Say you have enough processing power in a mobile device (we know this can and will happen)
  - Say this device can hookup wired or wirelessly to an augmented reality device (you know have a display as big as you can handle
  - Say now you have a revolutionary method of input or even just a docking station (should you absolutely want a hard keyboard)
  - Say you have a network connection via some form of wireless that gives you 10gb or more
  All this now has replaced the need for a desktop. This is a reality I expect we will see within 20 years.
9. Re:Wait until they find out by omnichad · 2016-11-30 07:12 · Score: 1
  
  To be as functional, you would need a full sized physical keyboard and at least 1 large (19" or greater) monitor.
  So... a phone, as it is, will never be as functional as a PC. At least not until we have a way to interface better than with a tiny touch screen.
  My phone can already do this. I can connect an HDMI adapter, bluetooth mouse and keyboard. Believe it or not, Android works fairly well with a mouse except for games and apps designed around swiping exclusively.
10. Re:Wait until they find out by Grishnakh · 2016-11-30 07:30 · Score: 1
  
  People once said that our "toy" microcomputers would never replace the mainframe.
  Well, they were right, weren't they? Just not exactly the way they thought, and not on the timescale they thought. Look at how everyone is rushing to put everything in "the cloud". We're very quickly moving from the microcomputer mindset to pushing everything of value to centralized servers.
11. Re:Wait until they find out by Joe_Dragon · 2016-11-30 07:32 · Score: 1
  
  wireless that gives you 10gb or more maybe 10GB max per AP and then you need a lot of them and in big office building just hope that there is no cross talk.
12. Re:Wait until they find out by Grishnakh · 2016-11-30 07:34 · Score: 1
  
  Given the fact that this was the Year of the Telemetry desktop for Windows, as well as that abysmal Fuck-You-That's-Why proprietary offering from the "Pros" at Apple, I'd say it's a big deal. Linux becomes more and more attractive by the minute when considering the alternatives.
  Only to people who don't have a herd mentality. As much as I'd like to see everyone switch to Linux, we're just not seeing it happen in any significant amount; instead, everyone is simply rationalizing the new normal in their heads somehow, and accepting MS Telemetry and Forced Reboots, or evangelizing how carrying around a bunch of expensive dongles really is a better way to do things. Every once in a while you'll come across someone who says "I've finally had it with this crap, so I've switched to Linux|Ubuntu|etc", but they're rare.
13. Re: Wait until they find out by nehumanuscrede · 2016-11-30 07:46 · Score: 1
  
  So what's the plan to power this amazing desktop killer of the future ?
  The kind of horsepower a desktop or workstation is typically known for will eat a mobile battery in very short order.
  Because of power limitations, mobile will forever be playing catch up I think.
  While a few generations of mobile hardware down the road will be amazingly powerful and sip power, their big brothers ( without the same power limitations ) will be even more so.
14. Re:Wait until they find out by Qzukk · 2016-11-30 07:49 · Score: 1
  
  What I keep wanting to see IRL is the stuff they keep showing in concept videos for probably 20+ years now. You sit down at an empty table and set your phone down on it. It connects to the desk and the surfaces light up, a touch sensitive keyboard and screen is drawn in front of you. A stack of folders to your right, you touch the stack and it fans out, letting you navigate through the folders to find the document you're reviewing for your meeting this morning. Tap it and it opens in the editor on your screen. To your left, a picture of a cup of coffee. You slide your finger around it as it changes from black to brown, you stop at two creams then tap the sugar cube once (or maybe it would already know your preference?). 30 seconds later a robot brings you a cup of coffee, which you enjoy as you page through the document using touch controls conveniently located nearby your hand's resting position instead of having to gorilla arm the screen. Then you pick up the phone, instantly cutting the connection with the surface, and head to work leaving nothing but an empty cup behind.
  Back when these concepts started showing up, security and privacy wasn't as big of a thing as now. I'm pretty sure it's impossible to do something like this securely (has the MPAA figured out a way to stop people from copying video yet?) but that doesn't mean I can't dream.
  
  --
  If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
15. Re:Wait until they find out by swb · 2016-11-30 07:57 · Score: 1
  
  I think most of this will happen (wireless 10gb less likely unless some scheme for 40 gbe over copper becomes a reality, you have to feed the APs after all).
  But why would it change most of the corporate desktop market? You won't bring your phone to work and do company business on it, they will still require/want you to use their equipment at work.
  I'm actually surprised by this point that the whole business market hasn't gone thin client/RDP by this point. It's been materially viable for while, but maybe Microsoft has kept licensing costs so high that not enough organizations are willing to bet on intangible ROI gains from thin client to pay the licensing penalty over desktop. And of course licensing costs for RDP are kept high to keep desktop OS and application license revenue flowing in.
  And it may end up that market distortion by vendors cripples mobile-as-desktop ultimately anyway, as it would generally mean far less desktop/laptop sales. I mean, I own a desktop, a laptop and a phone and if my phone really could do what my laptop does I might not own one. I went the other way when my iPad got old (and apple still refused BT mouse support) and got a laptop because a tablet didn't do enough because they vendor didn't want it to.
16. Re:Wait until they find out by epyT-R · 2016-11-30 08:05 · Score: 1
  
  All the convoluted modulation required to squeeze all that bw into sane amounts of spectrum multiplied by the number of devices in close proximity will inevitably be less efficient than hardwired equivalents using similar modulation methods.
  Even if somehow you managed to squeeze all of this fantasy into a mobile formfactor, someone will want a whole bunch of it crammed into a much bigger box because top performance is more important than portability for the use case.
  I know people are obsessed with mobile, but there will always be those who require hardware and software that allows more flexible user-defined workflows. Mobile's locked down software distribution and fisher price interfaces cannot do this.
17. Re:Wait until they find out by dfm3 · 2016-11-30 08:08 · Score: 1
  
  Big display, keyboard, docking station... So, a PC then?
  
  My laptop can do all these things, so can my phone and my tablet, but the big thing holding me back from just hooking up a display and keyboard to the iPad and using it for hardcore work is the OS and software. Until we get phones and tablets that allow users to run more than just gimped "app" versions of everything, they won't completely replace the PC.
18. Re:Wait until they find out by epyT-R · 2016-11-30 08:15 · Score: 1
  
  no, the industry is pushing people that way, using appeals of convenience to challenge their better judgements.
19. Re:Wait until they find out by mark-t · 2016-11-30 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps you hadn't noticed, but "enough" does not mean the same thing "as good as the other". It may very well be the case that mobile will get fast enough for most people... arguably, we are already there, but improvements that make mobile processing faster also result in faster desktop processing as well, and the demand for more power will *always* be there. Sure mobile might some day be able to run the cutting edge games of today, but by then there will be newer cutting edge games of tomorrow that *still* require the processing capability of the finest desktops of the day
  
  --
  File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
20. Re:Wait until they find out by Grishnakh · 2016-11-30 08:32 · Score: 1
  
  It doesn't really matter what the motivation is, people are willingly going that way.
21. Re:Wait until they find out by Applehu+Akbar · 2016-11-30 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  "There are always going to be some places where you can't get around having a box, where it's more convenient to have one, or where it's cheaper to have one."
  Our smartphones are wondrously functional, but when you need to run Photoshop, you will want a computer.
22. Re:Wait until they find out by pnutjam · 2016-11-30 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  Thin client fails because there are always the occasional outlier that needs a full machine. This makes everyone else jealous and if they have the pull, they get a full machine as well, which makes more people jealous, eventually some manager will put some pet on the full machine and it's all finger pointing about who's more important.
  
  --
  Cheap storage VM.
23. Re:Wait until they find out by iampiti · 2016-11-30 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  It could if connected to a dock that gave it a mouse, keyboard and monitor.
  Also, mobile OS would need to be replaced by real OS which allow the user to run more than one app at once, allow root access, etc.
24. Re:Wait until they find out by epyT-R · 2016-11-30 09:17 · Score: 1
  
  Oh yes it does. Being manipulated into something is not the same thing as a conscious choice.
25. Re:Wait until they find out by lister+king+of+smeg · 2016-11-30 09:17 · Score: 1
  
  I actually have thought about going to plan9 (or a plan9 from userspace with a linux kernal) it looks nice enough but I will probably do that around the time I finally decide to run gentoo (something I mean to do eventually someday when I have the time and dont need to have my main PC actually operable for a few weeks but never actually get around to doing)
  
  --
  ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
26. Re:Wait until they find out by BlindMaster · 2016-11-30 09:24 · Score: 1
  
  For now, yes. But we never know if holograms or flex display or even VR can create a bigger display for work.
27. Re:Wait until they find out by swb · 2016-11-30 10:11 · Score: 1
  
  That's just weak management or communication.
  A real thin client deployment should have full management backing and a concrete criteria for establishing "need" for a thick PC. Don't meet the criteria? No thick PC, and it's not a line management override decision any more than carpeting or bathroom fixtures is.
  And the "need" for thick PCs can easily be met by something like a micro form factor machine in many cases, because "need" will ultimately boil down to something like multiple displays or USB connectivity for 90% of grey area cases. Anyone with a functional need beyond that (3D rendering, massive storage, CPU or RAM) would be meet the thick PC selection criteria to begin with.
  Any company not willing to make these decisions is wasting money on a thin client deployment, but if they do I don't see why it wouldn't succeed.
28. Re: Wait until they find out by gtall · 2016-11-30 10:44 · Score: 2
  
  Yeah, yer right, no one would think to give those whizzy new interface devices their own power supply. Sheesh, docking stations are...what...inconceivable.
29. Re:Wait until they find out by Anne+Thwacks · 2016-11-30 10:59 · Score: 2
  
  A real thin client deployment should have full management backing and a concrete criteria for establishing "need" for a thick PC
  Way to go - sabotage the volume sales of PCs - that will help the prices a lot.
  I'll give up my desktop just as soon as I can have a 32inch 4K screen, full size hardware keyboard and an internal 1/2" tape drive on my phone. I have an A3 duplex colour printer and my current UPS weighs 40kg - OK, so its not very portable. I work at a desk, and then I stop working and go somewhere else. You may want to work 24 hours a day. I don't.
  
  --
  Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
30. Re: Wait until they find out by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2016-11-30 13:33 · Score: 1
  
  One way would be not to have contemporary shitty software (e.g., in spreadsheeds, instead of using crappy interpreters, use quality dynamic compilers). Another way would be having distributed applications/operating systems capable of using shared resources (along the lines of Plan 9).
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
31. Re:Wait until they find out by TechyImmigrant · 2016-11-30 15:08 · Score: 1
  
  >I'm actually surprised by this point that the whole business market hasn't gone thin client/RDP by this point.
  We have (at least in my mega corporation), but we're using normal laptops hooked to big monitors as the thin client. All real work happens on Linux boxes via VNC. Thin clients were a promise that never got cheap enough to be justifiable when you could buy a PC for less.
  
  --
  I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
32. Re:Wait until they find out by TechyImmigrant · 2016-11-30 15:18 · Score: 1
  
  The plan9 window system was not great. But that didn't matter - what you could do on the command line was magic.
  I haven't used it for years, but at times I think I should go back, just for the joy of how everything was easy to do through the file system.
  
  --
  I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
33. Re:Wait until they find out by pnutjam · 2016-11-30 16:28 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly, they fail because of users and managers, not technology. That was my point. FYI, thin clients can handle multiple displays fine, storage is on the network. Only high CPU and graphics really need thick-client. I use x2go extensively myself.
  The usual thin clients suck, Wyse and HP. I really like Igel, try them out.
  
  --
  Cheap storage VM.
34. Re: Wait until they find out by tepples · 2016-11-30 16:43 · Score: 1
  
  The strict W^X policy in iOS forbids third-party applications from using "quality dynamic compilers". A page allocated as writable cannot be flipped to executable on request from a third-party application. The only dynamic compiler in iOS is the one in WebKit, and it won't compile anything but JavaScript.
35. Re:Wait until they find out by nozzo · 2016-11-30 21:45 · Score: 1
  
  oh you beat me to it :) 2016 is the Year of Embedded Linux! ** ** source - my own head
36. Re: Wait until they find out by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2016-11-30 22:13 · Score: 1
  
  That's one of the reasons why I will never program for iOS.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
37. Re: Wait until they find out by Anonymous Coward · 2016-12-01 01:14 · Score: 1
  
  There's a point where you might as well just use a laptop.
38. Re: Wait until they find out by tepples · 2016-12-01 04:41 · Score: 1
  
  Provided that such laptops are even manufactured in the desired size. Manufacturers largely gave up 10" laptops in favor of tablets in late 2012.
39. Re:Wait until they find out by strikethree · 2016-12-01 05:03 · Score: 1
  
  Mobile will never fully replace the PC market, yes your phone might have plenty of CPU power, but when you get to your office you're not going to work on massive spread sheets or do hours of data entry on it.
  Careful there bucko. Nokia almost started eating into that market but Microsoft utterly destroyed them. I had a Nokia N900. It essentially ran Debian. At the time, I was praying for the next phone to have USB and Display port connectors so I could use my phone as my primary computer.
  Yeah, duh. Of course I would not be doing hours of spreadsheet work on a resistive (eh? Firefox assumes this is not a word either. That is the NAME of the type of screen. Deal it with Firefox assholes who try to limit our vocabulary.), not capacitive, touch screen. At least the keyboard was already physical. You would plug a keyboard and a monitor into it.
  Microsoft saved you from that terrible terrible situation. Your poor thumbs. ;)
  
  --
  "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
40. Re:Wait until they find out by Ravaldy · 2016-12-01 07:02 · Score: 1
  
  I'll give up my desktop just as soon as I can have a 32inch 4K screen, full size hardware keyboard and an internal 1/2" tape drive on my phone.
  I think you are miss understand the whole point. The desktop PC isn't required if you have docking or even better yet, augmented reality. Want a 60" screen, create one. That's where its going. Feel free to quote me on it 10-20 years from now.
41. Re: Wait until they find out by Ravaldy · 2016-12-01 07:07 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, but the point is that we replace all devices with one. That's where the conversation started.
42. Re:Wait until they find out by Ravaldy · 2016-12-02 05:40 · Score: 1
  
  I know people are obsessed with mobile, but there will always be those who require hardware and software that allows more flexible user-defined workflows
  You are limiting your imagination. Back up only 25 years and look at how much processing power you could get into a device the size of a Samsung S7.
  The performance per square inch is continuously increasing. I have users operating advanced 3D modeling software with hardware from 7 years ago. They are getting full performance with up to date software. The only features that have increased requirement for performance are high precision rendering and physic simulations which can easily be offloaded to server since the payload is small. No need to give everybody a $2500 machine for the one off when they can easily send the request to the server. The biggest power requirement will be coming from augmented reality sets and they will be handling most of the data crunch a similar to what current GPUs do.
43. Re:Wait until they find out by Ravaldy · 2016-12-02 06:16 · Score: 1
  
  wireless that gives you 10gb or more maybe 10GB max per AP and then you need a lot of them and in big office building just hope that there is no cross talk.
  For one, I was trying to make a point that you can't limit resources available because they theoretically won't be obstacles later on. Additionally most network requirements are BURST which means 10gb for 20 users is a ridiculous amount of bandwidth by today's standards.
  Second, do you know what tech will be available in 10-20 years?
  Do you remember the readily available wifi speed offered in 1999? It was 11mbs
  Do you know the speed offered today? 1300mbs
  At this rate it's not unreasonable to think 10gb wifi will be a reality in 10 - 20 years.
44. Re:Wait until they find out by Ravaldy · 2016-12-02 10:46 · Score: 1
  
  Big display, keyboard, docking station
  You either didn't read what I wrote, created your own understanding for the sake of your argument OR simply didn't understand parts of it because you aren't update to date on emerging tech. Regardless, you are miss understanding the whole point.
  The point is that the tech that in your pocket can replace your desktop PC and even laptop. Displays will no longer be required with augmented reality sets. The only issue left is handling input devices. With AR you don't need a mouse but you still need a keyboard. There are pocket size keyboards that unfold into a full keyboard. They provide feedback but none mechanical like an actual keyboard.
  So to sum it up, the only questionable item at this point is whether you want to carry a full mechanical keyboard or not. Once processing power is sufficient (and it is for some applications), you no longer need to buy a tablet, desktop or laptop since you have everything in your back pocket. Additionally you could argue that televisions and speaker systems are history. Read up on AR and you'll be surprised at what will be available only 3 years. The market expectation is that by 2022 at least 10% of the population will be wearing at least one smart tech item.
45. Re:Wait until they find out by Ravaldy · 2016-12-02 12:38 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps you hadn't noticed, but "enough" does not mean the same thing "as good as the other". It may very well be the case that mobile will get fast enough for most people...
  
  I'd argue that when you reach less than 2% of the population using them is pretty much elimination as it's more of a niche product at that point with special requirements.
  
  but improvements that make mobile processing faster also result in faster desktop processing as well, and the demand for more power will *always* be there
  I disagree with the last part. The number one sign of this is that the replacement rate has decrease while the cost has significantly dropped. Additionally with bandwidth and network speeds increasing, it's become far more effective to transfer the work load onto specialized servers with unlimited amounts of resources to handle said requests. This is what most of the major CGI studios do now. Big servers, regular client hardware (usually macbooks). Most CAD and creative software suites are also pushing this way of working.
  My team supports a large team of engineers using 3D modeling software for generating manufacturing programs and instructions. They also model actual air and fluid dynamics which is very intensive both on the CPU and GPU. All this information is transferred to the server (small payload) and processed 30 times quicker than previously on an expensive server that is a fraction of the cost of them all getting generation 6 Intel i7. Now realistically the mobile processing power isn't good enough for these people YET but it will eventually be as their requirements have only decreased. Some of these engineers are running 5 year old equipment and other than asking for bigger and better displays are very happy with the performance they software currently runs at.
Now is a great time... by 101percent · 2016-11-30 06:27 · Score: 1

Now is a great time for OS development. Hardware is becoming more standardized and we don't have to worry about people doing boring stuff like reverse engineering drivers.
1. Re:Now is a great time... by Maury+Markowitz · 2016-11-30 06:48 · Score: 1
  
  Oh yeah sure, like the kWorld driver on ODroid...
guessing game by e432776 · 2016-11-30 06:35 · Score: 1

does anyone have any suggestions for which factors might be responsible for this? Some new feature in PCs that is making new ones interesting again? Simple turn-over (5-8 yr old machines failing and being decomissioned/replaced)? Other?
1. Re:guessing game by avandesande · 2016-11-30 06:44 · Score: 1
  
  The last few years are moving from a New OS/New Processor series driven cycle to things just getting really old. Let's suppose lots of people bought new machines when i5 and i7 came out those machines are now 6 or 7 years old.
  
  --
  love is just extroverted narcissism
2. Re:guessing game by DickBreath · 2016-11-30 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe people are finding games entertaining. Maybe fewer people watch cable TV. Get a computer with a large monitor and it can be a computer, gaming machine, surfing device, and netflix streaming device. Especially if more young people live with parents longer, and therefore have less personal space for both a big TV and a computer.
  
  --
  
  I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
3. Re:guessing game by avandesande · 2016-11-30 07:47 · Score: 1
  
  I am using a 950 myself, but not everyone has the ability to upgrade graphics card and add SSD. I imagine such a machine is pretty clunky now without any upgrades.
  
  --
  love is just extroverted narcissism
4. Re:guessing game by AHuxley · 2016-11-30 11:23 · Score: 1
  
  VR and the start of 4K gaming is gpu, cpu pushing specs up.
  The push out of dx12 and needed software updates, the need for gpu generations like the 1070, 1080 nvidia cards, the suggestion for 16-32 gb of RAM, the hint that an i7 Is needed.
  The 4K ready games are getting very complex with a new generation of GPU, CPU suggested for the very best graphics settings.
  Add in the VR testing software to offer feedback on cpu, gpu, ram to ensure a really great user experience.
  The ability to get a bit faster storage with new motherboards is also helping upgrades.
  As 4K displays get cheaper upgrades are needed to just ensure the gpu can keep up. Expect more upgrades to ensure 4K really works well with the next games.
  Developers are also getting more sloppy with vast, rushed projects spread over console and desktop markets, the developers might select their fav GPU to optimise for.
  GPU brands will work hard to present the best drivers and support.
  Add in the complexity of Microsoft and its internal console support, desktop support, dx12 ...
  All the end user can do is buy into RAM, CPU, GPU for the new games and hope 4K works.
  
  --
  Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
RTFA by drinkypoo · 2016-11-30 06:41 · Score: 1

Oh, who am I kidding?

"Despite continued weakness in the consumer segment, the US PC market is showing some signs of stability in the near future with some sources of optimism for the long haul", says IDC Devices and Displays senior research analyst Neha Mahajan. "Backed by early Windows 10 transitions that are expected to boost commercial PC shipments in the next couple of years, and steady growth of PCaaS (PC as a Service) which should help shorten refresh cycles of commercial systems in the long-term, the overall US PC market sentiment certainly seems to be improving".

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
1. Re:RTFA by Sir_Eptishous · 2016-11-30 06:43 · Score: 1
  
  "Backed by early Windows 10 transitions that are expected to boost commercial PC shipments in the next couple of years, and steady growth of SWaaS (Spyware as a Service) which should help shorten refresh cycles of commercial systems in the long-term, the overall US PC market sentiment certainly seems to be improving".
  FTFY
  
  --
  We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
old meme is old. by nimbius · 2016-11-30 06:41 · Score: 1

Slashdot: THE PC IS DEAD. in its wake we find tablets, fablets, e-readers and cellphones have entirely supplanted what was once a monolithic waste of time of no value at all.
Also Slashdot: THE PC MARKET, which was once dismissed as entirely extinct, is now on suicide watch/life support recovery as we've learned people sometimes use the device to accomplish work outside of twitter, tumblr, instagram, facebook, and snapchat. at this time, a single computer has been sold.

--
Good people go to bed earlier.
1. Re:old meme is old. by TechyImmigrant · 2016-11-30 15:22 · Score: 1
  
  That's why I program, write and do other things on a PC every day.
  
  --
  I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
{game of the year} by watermark · 2016-11-30 06:44 · Score: 3, Interesting

I'd switch to Linux if it could play {game of the year}. Until it plays that game without much Wine hassle, I can't see myself switching.
1. Re:{game of the year} by danomac · 2016-11-30 07:47 · Score: 1
  
  Well, I just decided to get a console. I use it more than my dual-boot computer. You put a game disc in and it works.
2. Re:{game of the year} by mea2214 · 2016-11-30 10:46 · Score: 1
  
  Ununtu and Steam would work for me. Unfortunately Ubuntu doesn't work on my hardware without it turning into a science project.
3. Re:{game of the year} by tepples · 2016-11-30 16:56 · Score: 1
  
  Until you discover that a particular game that you want to play isn't ported to the console you have but is available for both Windows and X11/Linux.
4. Re:{game of the year} by antdude · 2016-11-30 21:52 · Score: 1
  
  What about mods and other flexibilities? :P
  
  --
  Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
5. Re:{game of the year} by mjwx · 2016-12-01 00:55 · Score: 1
  
  Well, I just decided to get a console. I use it more than my dual-boot computer. You put a game disc in and it works.
  Housemates tried playing FIFA16 on the Xbox.
  
  1. It had to connect to Xbox live.
  2. It had to download an update.
  3. It had to verify the disk.
  4. It had to download another update.
  5. Then it started the game.
  6. Unstoppable into videos.
  7. Logging into Xbox Live.
  8. Now they have a start menu.
  In the same time I downloaded an entire game from Steam.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
6. Re:{game of the year} by strikethree · 2016-12-01 05:15 · Score: 1
  
  I'd switch to Linux if it could play {game of the year}. Until it plays that game without much Wine hassle, I can't see myself switching.
  I play some fairly popular games on Linux. Natively. (DOTA 2, Euro Truck Simulator 2, Borderlands 2, etc)
  I play some some fantastically popular games under Wine in Linux. (Skyrim, Dirt3, etc)
  I bought Grand Theft Auto V. I can not play it in Linux either Natively or under Wine.
  You know what? My freedom is more important to me than Grand Theft Auto V or the ~$60 I paid for it. I abandoned it all when Windows 10 came out.
  If your freedom is not terribly important to you, as it seems not to be for the majority of people (until it affects them), then feel free to let your computing platform be dictated by the mass media.
  Essentially, what your statement is saying is that you do not care if you are monitored, tracked, tagged, and bagged. Well, you may care, but you care less than playing {game of the year}. Seems pretty low to me.
  For myself, I do not care who uses Linux... but that Poettering (SP?) character is sure making me wish there were more controls over developers who touch infrastructure. I DO NOT WANT ANOTHER FUCKING WINDOWS PLATFORM. I have rejected it for a reason. Why are people bringing such vertical and brittle shit to Linux?
  Meh. Random thoughts. I apologize.
  
  --
  "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
Its the content creators that need them! by Stu101 · 2016-11-30 06:44 · Score: 4, Interesting

So I know a lot of people do Facebook, Twitter etc but for those of us that work doing any form of content creation of value desktops beat out most of the competition. For example... I am writing a white paper at the minute and doing so on a desktop. With a decent amount of grunt, good keyboard and dual monitors I can do stuff so much quicker than any other device, esp for media intensive ops.
There will always be a place for desktops.

--
http://www.writeitfor.us - Writing IT for the IT generation.
1. Re:Its the content creators that need them! by Ravaldy · 2016-11-30 07:07 · Score: 1
  
  - Say you have enough processing power in a mobile device (we know this can and will happen)
  - Say this device can hookup wired or wirelessly to an augmented reality device (you know have a display as big as you can handle
  - Say now you have a revolutionary method of input or even just a docking station (should you absolutely want a hard keyboard)
  - Say you have a network connection via some form of wireless that gives you 10gb or more
  All this now has replaced the need for a desktop. This is a reality I expect we will see within 20 years.
2. Re:Its the content creators that need them! by pr0fessor · 2016-11-30 07:53 · Score: 1
  
  There are already tablets and cell phones with micro hdmi ports, bluetooth that will accept a keyboard and mouse, and can connect to wifi.
3. Re:Its the content creators that need them! by tepples · 2016-11-30 16:59 · Score: 2
  
  a display as big as you can handle
  A huge display isn't very useful if the smartphone-derived operating system's window manager doesn't allow displaying more than one app at once on that display.
  
  Say you have a network connection via some form of wireless that gives you 10gb or more
  And once I've burned through those 10 GB, which would take eight seconds at 10 Gbps, what else can I do for the rest of the month before my data plan resets?
4. Re:Its the content creators that need them! by Ravaldy · 2016-12-01 07:05 · Score: 1
  
  Yep and the only thing holding that from replacing desktops are the ecosystem (that will go away with time) and processing power (that will also be a problem of the past eventually).
5. Re:Its the content creators that need them! by pr0fessor · 2016-12-01 09:52 · Score: 1
  
  My brother bought an rpi 3b cana kit and brought it over for me to help him setup. There are cell phones with better processors, more ram, and the pi ran really well with raspbian... I wouldn't be surprised if it's android that makes better spec cell phone run like crap.
6. Re:Its the content creators that need them! by Ravaldy · 2016-12-02 10:55 · Score: 1
  
  A huge display isn't very useful if the smartphone-derived operating system's window manager doesn't allow displaying more than one app at once on that display.
  That's today and the software of today is built for today's hardware. This can easily be remedied so it's far from being a real concern.
  
  And once I've burned through those 10 GB, which would take eight seconds at 10 Gbps, what else can I do for the rest of the month before my data plan resets?
  I think your confused. What limit are you talking about? Cellphone plan limitation? Are you grasping on to straws to make a point because it's not coming across. 10Gbs WIFI is something that is already reality. Read up on Quantenna Communications.
  Stop thinking that current tech is the end of the line. I'm surprised to see the lack of imagination of tech people on Slashdot. Today is only the tip of the iceberg.
Not suprising by 110010001000 · 2016-11-30 06:45 · Score: 2

Moore's Law is dead. Lone gone and buried. There is no compelling reason to replace your PC at this point.
1. Re:Not suprising by DickBreath · 2016-11-30 07:13 · Score: 1
  
  You need to replace your PC when it wears out.
  
  And "wears out" for many people means that the proprietary black sludge ball of an OS is borked with malware. Time to buy a new PC.
  
  Business model idea(!): Proprietary OS vendor could increase it's sales if, somehow, for some reason, PC's were to "wear out" faster.
  
  --
  
  I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
2. Re:Not suprising by The-Ixian · 2016-11-30 07:46 · Score: 2
  
  Well. the nice thing about a PC is that it is modular, you can replace the parts that wear out.
  I am still rocking my AMD 8 core rig from 4 years ago and it still runs modern 3d games at a decent frame rate at 5760x1080 resolution.
  I expect the hard drives, GPU and power supply will last through at least another rev of the hardware when I replace the mobo, ram and CPU.
  
  --
  My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
3. Re:Not suprising by The-Ixian · 2016-11-30 11:59 · Score: 1
  
  Well yes. I guess in that sense, the PC really is already dead then because a PC, to me, means modularity and "hackability" more than anything else.
  Still, though. I have helped many non-techies build a computer. I think that most people know it is possible and will do it if they have the right people around them.
  I witnessed the birth of the PC and I will be around for its demise. Interesting times.
  
  --
  My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
4. Re:Not suprising by Tough+Love · 2016-11-30 18:54 · Score: 1
  
  Moore's Law is dead. Lone gone and buried.
  No it isn't. Clock frequency scaling hit a wall, most probably temporarily, but process size shrinking just keeps steaming on with areal density doubling every 2-3 years. Miraculously, photo lithography still works at 10 nm. Nanoimprint is likely to take over from there at 7nm and 5nm, the latter expected around 2020. According to Wikipedia. I say 2024. In the intervening 8 years, it's entirely believable that graphene process technology will become commercially feasible, getting us down to 1 nm wire size with switching frequencies well over 100 GHz. After that, what? 3D processors? Organic? Who know. No doubt, something The point is, no wall has been hit yet, there's a long way to go.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
5. Re:Not suprising by mjwx · 2016-12-01 00:59 · Score: 1
  
  Moore's Law is dead. Lone gone and buried. There is no compelling reason to replace your PC at this point.
  This and bad economies are to blame.
  
  You no longer need to upgrade your PC or laptop every 2-3 years to run basic software... Hell, you barely need to upgrade your gaming rig every 3 years to play the latest game. I just built a new rig in 2016, the last one was made in 2009 between then I only upgraded the graphics card and to an SSD.
  
  But the larger cause are businesses, they are deferring upgrades because of shrinking budgets. Businesses that would upgrade every 2 years in the 00's are now upgrading every 3-5 years.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Nice paperweight you have there. by malditaenvidia · 2016-11-30 06:54 · Score: 1

I'm just glad the tablet meme is finally winding down.
1. Re:Nice paperweight you have there. by Tough+Love · 2016-11-30 18:55 · Score: 1
  
  Probably just resting.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
2. Re:Nice paperweight you have there. by The-Ixian · 2016-12-01 02:47 · Score: 1
  
  It's pining for the fjords
  
  --
  My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
apple app store only needs to go / Censorship by Joe_Dragon · 2016-11-30 07:47 · Score: 1

apple app store only needs to go / the Censorship issues are big. At least have an adults only room for stuff that is to hot for the main app store.
And why can't we have emulators where it's easy to load a rom, iso, disk image, have a real HDD image, etc? you can do side loading but it's not as easy as it is on android.
Interesting definition of 'recovery' by unixisc · 2016-11-30 07:59 · Score: 4, Insightful

PC shipments will continue to decline in 2016, according to a new IDC forecast, but the drop will be slightly lower than previously expected

One of the most imaginative definitions of 'recovery' that I've ever seen. It's like a kid who went from an A to a C in one term, and C to a D in the next, and claims that he's 'improved' b'cos he didn't go from C to an F.
Almost like how in Washington DC, baseline budgeting is done. If you are spending $100M on something and a proposal is made to raise it to $125M, but instead, the expense is only raised to $115M, then it's called a 'cut'. Nobody defines numerical shifts that way, excepting people in government... and market analysts
1. Re:Interesting definition of 'recovery' by Tough+Love · 2016-11-30 18:07 · Score: 1
  
  Article says "signs of recovery" not "recovery". That said, I don't see how a slower decline is a sign of recovery either.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
2. Re:Interesting definition of 'recovery' by Hognoxious · 2016-11-30 21:23 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps you should study calculus?
  
  --
  Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Predictions of everything are just BS by omfglearntoplay · 2016-11-30 08:00 · Score: 1

Humans are happy or sad based on expectations. Predictions just lead to expectations.
Let's predict PCs will never be sold again after today. Then tomorrow we can all be happy because poof, they are selling like hotcakes in relation to our expectations based on our predictions~~~!!!
PC market shows signs of recovery by Yvan256 · 2016-11-30 09:00 · Score: 1

And it's all thanks to a single game: No Man's Sky!
That and no split screen on pre-Nougat devices by tepples · 2016-11-30 16:50 · Score: 1

Believe it or not, Android works fairly well with a mouse except for games and apps designed around swiping exclusively.
That and the fact that most devices haven't been upgraded to Android 7 "Nougat", the first version to incorporate tiling window management as a standard feature, as opposed to the maximized paradigm that smartphone-derived GUIs tend to impose.
Re:Impossible! by tepples · 2016-11-30 16:52 · Score: 1

What are people using to make the apps, edited videos, and the like that are played on said "Android based phones and tablets"?
Built a laptop lately? by tepples · 2016-11-30 17:01 · Score: 1

And to others, PC means a way to get work done while riding transit. This means a laptop. How many people actually build a laptop from a "barebook" kit?