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Michigan Lets Autonomous Cars On Roads Without Human Driver (go.com)
Companies can now test self-driving cars on Michigan public roads without a driver or steering wheel under new laws that could push the state to the forefront of autonomous vehicle development. From a report on ABC: The package of bills signed into law Friday comes with few specific state regulations and leaves many decisions up to automakers and companies like Google and Uber. It also allows automakers and tech companies to run autonomous taxi services and permits test parades of self-driving tractor-trailers as long as humans are in each truck. And they allow the sale of self-driving vehicles to the public once they are tested and certified, according to the state. The bills allow testing without burdensome regulations so the industry can move forward with potential life-saving technology, said Gov. Rick Snyder, who was to sign the bills. "It makes Michigan a place where particularly for the auto industry it's a good place to do work," he said.
With the rising number of idiots texting on their phones while behind the wheel, I have already seen hundreds of driverless cars on the road.
>> Gov. Rick Snyder: "It makes Michigan a place where particularly for the auto industry it's a good place to do work," he said.
Well duh - Michigan's economy IS the auto industry. Just happy there's a governor in place to clear the red tape for this.
>> allows automakers and tech companies to...permits test parades of self-driving tractor-trailers
Remember when the Teamsters were a force in elections? No? Guess I'm old...
Will they properly recognize the "prison area: do not pick up hitchhikers" road signs?
"It makes Michigan a place where particularly for the auto industry it's a good place to do work,"
Yeah except for the shitty roads, expensive labor, unsupportive government, hostile unions, etc. Other than that it's awesome. I find it hilarious that the state most closely associated with the auto industry has some of the worst roads in the country. Good place to test handling and suspensions I guess. Anyway this doesn't really matter much unless they can keep the companies that own the technology doing it in Michigan. Who cares if Google develops self driving tech in Michigan if Michigan doesn't see any of the financial benefit from that.
The thing that Michigan (particularly SE Michigan) has going for it is that the auto industry has a lot of residual talent left in the area. There is a ton of engineering and production capability. Michigan can be a great place to work on some really interesting technology. Seriously, it's hugely underrated as a tech hub but Michigan is one of the best places to be for high tech jobs. Too bad the state has dropped the ball in so many other areas. It's a beautiful place to live and work (outside of Detroit City proper anyway) and it's kind of a shame what has happened to the state in the last several decades.
This is actually good news for everyone, not just people in Michigan. If self-driving vehicles can deal with the weather conditions there, they should be able to deal with them in the rest of the country, and most other countries as well. Sunny days in California don't expose the hazards posed by rain, snow, slush, and black ice.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
If it's the fault of the manufacturer then sure, sue them. If however it's just a freak accident - and I know this may be a hard pill to swallow - perhaps you sue no one. It sort of saddens me a great deal when new tech is always confronted with "But who do I sue if something goes wrong!?!?!".
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
>> who do I sue
I'm sure there are equally large groups of lawyers trying to simplify that equation to either "act of god" or "the auto manufacturer" right now. And it will surely take a few court cases to get this hammered out, and then hammered out again. In the meantime, what people like the local governor are trying to do is make it clear that "it's OK to experiment here without having all the bureaucratic/legal answers (you want) in place" by sweeping some regulations to the side. Yeah, his call favors new technology research over human life, but if it really saves human lives in the future, he'll be up on that score too. (The alternative is really to let countries like China - who really do have a "fuck you" attitude toward human life - figure this out first.)
We're in Trumpworld, why let a thing like human safety stand in the way of profits from a luxurymobile? Have they at least ensured that they will travel the speed limit or be in a special lane?
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
It's not a freak accident if the machine makes a mistake a human wouldn't have. This will not be hard to prove.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Considering the stupid things people do, it will be harder to prove than you think....
Oh, you mean like when someone mistakes the gas pedal for the brake pedal and then blames it on the car because electronics?
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
Isn't hitchhiking illegal in most states?
No, actually hitchhiking is perfectly legal in most places. A few states ban it but in most places it's just illegal to actually stand on the road when soliciting a ride. Stand to the side of the road and you are not breaking any laws. And even in places where it is illegal the police mostly don't care all that much.
No it won't.. AI will make totally different mistakes, like driving into trailers crossing the road.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
With Michigan's exemplary track record implementing minimal regulations, what could possibly go wrong?
Seriously though, I'm glad their beta(alpha?)-testing this for the rest of us. I think we all agree self-driving cars have great potential once we get it right, but someone has to go first to get there. Way to take one for the team, Michigan!
If AI mistakes the gas pedal for the brake then it won't matter.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Guilt when it comes to corporate entities is already severely murky and depressing, and getting worse.
How many people went to jail for all the mortgage fraud, forged notary signatures, and crap sandwich CDO's from the 2008 bust? Still waiting for all the pending investigations by Eric Placeholder are you? Yep, lies, delay tactics, and no actual justice.
So yes, companies will get sued. They have lawyers by the bushel on staff who will drain the resources of the victims, draw out lawsuits for years, if not decades, and eventually wear down the victims until they settle or go away. If there is sufficient outrage the Justice Department (sort of like calling your propoganda department the Ministry of Information)will launch a very public investigation that mostly just fades away, maybe nailing a token peon or two in case anyone pays attention long enough.
In other words, the victims will get "American Justice" at its finest. How satisfied was anybody over the Toyota "unintended acceleration" debacle? No real guilt was admitted, and no proper post-mortem was divulged, just denial and smoke screens. We got new floor mats and a software update along with some payouts to shut people up. Only outside independent investigation confirmed their software was horrendous. Nobody went to jail for killing and maiming a few of their customers.
No CEO or high ranking person will ever go to jail simply because their policies pressured underlings to release dangerous products onto the street. At best we might get a recall and a settlement, maybe an empty public apology or resignation with golden parachute if absolutely necessary. We little people are not important, protecting CEO's careers is a higher priority than protecting our miserable lives.
I think people need to look through death statistics of steam engines and all 'early' tech back through the stone ages.
And MI is a great state for automated driving systems to test again bad weather road conditions and construction re-routing....
Which is fine but does little for the economy of Michigan by itself. Employs a few engineers and support personnel but what else is the benefit to Michigan? Hope a few businesses take root as a result but I'm not holding my breath.
No, you just haven;t seen some of the really stupid things humans do :)
a criminal case will be needed to set things right say a really bad accident. Even better if you get a judge like the one in My Cousin Vinny.
Yes because it's a good thing that humans aren't doing things in a better way since the stone ages.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I just don't know how to feel about this. On one hand, "Yay, government getting out of the way of innovation!" On the other hand, "Snyder is a Republican so this is obviously a gift to Big Auto in the name of trickle-down economics. Or something."
I can't WAIT to be in one on on a long empty highway except for a double-wide tractor driving 20 and having it unable to figure out how to pass in the oncoming lane.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
And who do I sue if it's my mother that was killed
If your mother was killed, you would think of who to sue?
Let me guess your nationality...
Why would anyone spend money on insurance covering liability for a car they have no control over? That's like having car insurance for riding the bus.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
That happened because the Tesla "autopilot" is a joke. It is not Autonomous and requires driver attention at all times... which, of course the driver does not give because most of the time it is good enough.
These cars are going to have to do a lot better than that... laws or no... because the companies making them are going to have to have insurance to cover these scenarios and they are going to have to be good enough that that insurance is attainable.
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
Well the automakers would be where the liability should lie, but I'm so concerned about the ability for large corporations to skate around things like this I don't have a lot of optimism they will be held accountable.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
anyway. Oh, and if you work in a retail store or drive a cab/Uber (retail will get killed by Amazon as soon as self driving is a reality)
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With this new law expect the accident rate to go up, as people trying to post a picture or video of the driverless car on facebook, twitter, youtube, etc. lose control and drive into trees, other cars, buildings, off bridges, etc.
"Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
Why am I more responsible for an automated car with only a box in it than I am for riding the bus or a taxi? You can't be held responsible for things you have absolutely no control over. They might as well hold people responsible for every accident whether they were at fault or not.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I would sue if a family member were injured or killed due to AI. It wouldn't be about the money, it would be about holding the creator of the AI accountable.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Step 1: Step in front of car.
Step 2: Box the car in and then hook up to tow truck
Step 3: Profit!
The same thing that happens when a person is killed by a non-autonomous vehicle. A large insurance payout.
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
Why am I more responsible for an automated car with only a box in it than I am for riding the bus or a taxi? You can't be held responsible for things you have absolutely no control over. They might as well hold people responsible for every accident whether they were at fault or not.
Oh, I don't know... Maybe because the Bus or Taxi has required insurance already that would cover such things and they're operating it. You are choosing to operate the vehicle on the road, thus you have the liability and burden of insurance.
permits test parades of self-driving tractor-trailers as long as humans are in each truck.
Hopefully, the human will be required to be at the wheel, ready to take over immediately if there's a system glitch.
In the recent self-driving truck demonstration in Colorado, the system developer (Otto) bragged that "Our professional driver was out of the driver's seat for the entire 120-mile journey down I-25, monitoring the self-driving system from the sleeper berth in the back." http://www.latimes.com/busines...
Does anyone else feel that was quite unwise and cocky? It take a while to get from the sleeper berth to the steering wheel.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
I'll head right over there now and buy a Tesla!
right... tesla ;-) which are banned from selling cars in that state just because of crony capitalism on the part of the politicians
technically, michigan has drivers which are its politicians... obviously corrupt, crony captitalists ones
insurance companies are identical to that mafia that controls casinos, all odds are stacked in their favor, and you're the one that pays anyhow...
we forked too much money due to last year's floods, there, your premiums go up, and GFY
Insurance companies can't do anything they want. If I lend my car to someone else and they get in an accident, they can't legally come after me for damages. It is the same scenario with automated cars.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
and no proper post-mortem was divulged, just denial and smoke screens.
That's not true at all.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
And this is all in pursuit of something nobody needs—third-party remote driving or proprietary software driving. As Bradley Kuhn has pointed out, software freedom doesn't kill people, your security through obscurity kills people. I'm no fan of the driverless vehicle but it's worth noting how one-sided it is; the party being left out of knowing how their vehicle will behave is the vehicle's owner. This is a recipe for bad outcomes and we already have evidence of one driverless vehicle killing someone and the VW proprietary exhaust scandal adding more pollutants killing people more slowly.
Eric "The Constitution guarantees due process, not judicial process" Holder has returned to working for Covington & Burling, whose clients include many of the banks Holder chose not to prosecute when he was Attorney General (despite considerable evidence) and as the Intercept points out, President-elect Trump has made America Goldman's again so if you voted for Trump thinking you were dodging the Goldman Sachs favoritism Hillary Clinton showed, that didn't work.
Digital Citizen
Well, less people driving means fewer jobs... again.
No it means fewer people in jobs that involve driving. Nothing more. It does not follow that eliminating drivers will mean fewer jobs overall. It just means those jobs won't be driving vehicles around which frankly is something of a waste human capital. Jobs get obsoleted all the time by new technology but that doesn't mean there are fewer jobs in total. Those people now can be employed doing something else and they will be. Your argument is like complaining that we have fewer jobs washing clothes now that we have automatic washing machines in the home. That labor buden went away but it didn't result in fewer jobs. It freed up people to do more productive and economically beneficial work.
MI can't really afford to rest all it's eggs in the Automotive basket...
Michigan doesn't really have much of a choice for the near future. Michigan is and remains the epicenter of the auto industry even to this day. That comes with some benefits and some drawbacks. Michigan's economy does not depend solely on the auto industry but it's definitely the most important industry in the state.