Slashdot Mirror
Struggling Workers Found Sleeping In Tents Behind Amazon's Warehouse (thecourier.co.uk)
"At least three tents have been spotted in woodland beside the online retail giant's base," reports a Scottish newspaper -- hidden behind trees, but within sight of Amazon's warehouse, and right next to a busy highway. An anonymous reader writes:
Despite Scotland's "bitterly cold winter nights" -- with lows in the 30s -- the tent "was easier and cheaper than commuting from his home," one Amazon worker told the Courier. (Though yesterday someone stole all of his camping equipment.) Amazon charges its employees for shuttle service to the fulfillment center, which "swallows up a lot of the weekly wage," one political party leader told the Courier, "forcing people to seek ever more desperate ways of making work pay.
"Amazon should be ashamed that they pay their workers so little that they have to camp out in the dead of winter to make ends meet..." he continued. "They pay a small amount of tax and received millions of pounds from the Scottish National Party Government, so the least they should do is pay the proper living wage." Though the newspaper reports that holiday shopping has created 4,000 temporary jobs in the small town of Dunfermline, "The company came under fire last month from local activists who claimed that agency workers are working up to 60 hours per week for little more than the minimum wage and are harshly treated."
Amazon responded, "The safety and well-being of our permanent and temporary associates is our number one priority."
"Amazon should be ashamed that they pay their workers so little that they have to camp out in the dead of winter to make ends meet..." he continued. "They pay a small amount of tax and received millions of pounds from the Scottish National Party Government, so the least they should do is pay the proper living wage." Though the newspaper reports that holiday shopping has created 4,000 temporary jobs in the small town of Dunfermline, "The company came under fire last month from local activists who claimed that agency workers are working up to 60 hours per week for little more than the minimum wage and are harshly treated."
Amazon responded, "The safety and well-being of our permanent and temporary associates is our number one priority."
You should be ashamed you pay so little for the goods and services that free-market economies provide. Calculate all the money you've saved and remit that total to the workers' salary augmentation fund.
I was told the economy in that area was great and that it would all be ruined by Brexit. If the economy is so terrific, how can Amazon find any unemployed people to work at their fulfillment centers?
Yeah, you could also have titled this story "Amazon hires thousands of temporary workers desperate for jobs, giving them a chance at Christmas!"
But then, that wouldn't fit the narrative, would it? 4,000 jobs in a small town is a massive benefit to those who need work, but I guess some would rather they sat at home and just collected a check from other people's wages instead.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
"The safety and well-being of our permanent and temporary associates is our number one priority."
When a big stink was made about all the counterfeit products on Amazon, maintaining customer confidence that all products are legitimate was your number one priority. When 80,000 Kindle users' passwords were dumped online, the security of your customers was your number one priority. Now you claim the safety of your employees is your number one priority.
This is all bullshit. You can only have one number one priority, and we all know that's MAKING MONEY.
No True Scotsman would use a tent... He'd cuddle up with some sheep behind the nearest hedge and wait it out...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
I have a cousin who worked as a delivery driver for Amazon Now, contracted through some no-name third party company. He said he really liked it because in a typical day he made between $200 and $300 in wage+tips, but after the media did an "expose" on the fact that Amazon was treating them as contract-for-hire with no benefits, then suddenly he stopped getting work.
Nobody was forcing him to do that work, but whistleblowing like this likely did force him to stop.
Yeah! Why don't these losers just stroll over to the Job Forest, where jobs grow on trees in wondrous abundance?
"If there was a gay Afro-Puertorican Linux distribution, I'd give it a try" ~lucm
I'm sorry but companies aren't allowed to operate like that in the EU or the UK.
Apparently they are.
#DeleteChrome
Yes, they could work in a book shop for example.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
It's weird how lefties hate Walmart for the same thing, but love amazon.
Hating Walmart is party-line obedience to union leaders. Plus classism. Amazon hasn't become a big focus for union organizers yet, and Amazon employs many members of the progressive tribe in The Seattle area. So they get a pass, for now.
None of this has ever had anything to do with actually caring about the employees of these companies.
if you're not paid enough, find another job!
A 2nd-order economic fallacy: "There are an infinite number of jobs".
It is a derivative of the base, first order fallacy: "infinite consumption".
We will always have infinite consumption because of ever increasing population (see: Malthus) and ever increasing wants and needs. No matter how much food or shelter you have, you will always want more. It's basic human nature.
Infinite consumption demands infinite production, which necessarily requires infinite labor.
If you're not paid enough, go find another job!
It's not as if they are in limited supply...
I remember now - the birthplace of Andrew Carnegie!
Came across an article (https://www.fastcompany.com/3061686/free-shipping-is-a-lie) a few weeks ago that spells out part of the problem: Amazon loses around 45% of all shipping costs. They can take part of the hit because they have so much volume, but it also has to be paid for somewhere...and how they treat their staff is an obvious area in this instance.
Full disclosure: I also work for an online shop, and we struggle with the idea of 'free shipping'. Since we deal with food, our margins are already low, plus we ship a lot of refrigerated items, so a lot need expedited delivery. In the US it's not so bad (seems like $8 will get many packages just about anywhere in 2 days), but here in Canada, shipping fees are brutal -- even shipping in our own city is a minimum of about $10 -- and no doubt most people expect free shipping as well. As the article points out: it's just not sustainable. 'Free shipping' fees are paid elsewhere down the line.
The whole story is bullshit whining about nothing, pushing a political agenda by pretending any of this is news. So yeah, all the talk about it spikes the bullshit meter.
Negotiate? How much power do you think an individual has as compared with the corporation currently? There is no negotiation... you take it or leave it.
The highest minimum wage in Scotland is 7.20/hour is you are 25 or over, whereas the Living Wage is 8.25/hour.
For the sake of argument let's say these folks are being paid the Living Wage. 8.25 X 60 = 495. If you get paid every other week that is 990 gross pay.
Let's assume these people are working full-time so 26 paychecks X 990 = 25,740. Based on this tax rate guide that means they pay a 20% tax on their wages. However, they get the first 10,600 as a personal allowance. So, 20% of 15,140 (25,740-10,600) = 3,028. Subtracting everything out leaves 12,112. Add in the 10,600 and you get 22,712 to live on (assuming my math is correct).
All of the above is assuming Amazon uses the highest possible minimum wage rate. If they use the lower value of 7.20 then the take home pay gets even smaller. Which now brings us to conclusion: either the prices for a flat in Scotland are exceptionally low, as is everything else, or trying to live on a minimum wage in Scotland is nowhere near a comfortable living. At 500/month, rent will consume 26.4% of your earnings.
Once you start adding in food, clothes, any form of entertainment (alcohol most likely), not to mention electricity, heating (if separate from electricity), your monthly phone bill, transportation costs and so on, you're not really left with much to be considered comfortable.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Ultra conservative write Ben Stein wrote this after visiting the Walmart in Idaho
“These were enormous sallow men and women, grotesquely obese teenagers, horribly tattooed women in sun dresses at 10 p.m. These were the Jukes and the Kallikaks. Their RV’s were parked in the Walmart parking lot. Terrifying, especially in Walmart’s ultra-bright jail line-up lights”
Now tell us again what Liberals do?
I suppose I can take your post and extrapolate and say conservatives indulge themselves in classism by rampant over generalizing and attempting to describe what liberals do in which in reality is what they do.... AKA hypocrisy.
It's neither strawman nor bullshit. If individuals are permitted to control their costs by selecting the lowest-priced goods and services available to them then why would a corporation not be permitted to do the same?
Unfortunately the big conglomerates have killed off the smaller companies. It's a vicious cycle where where people get paid less so need cheaper goods which depresses wages.
I hate Wally World and I've never even been in a union.
Don't tell people what their issues really have to do with. Instead, listen to them and they will tell you. In my experience even those union guys are capable of independent thought and can determine what their motivations are.
People aren't going to hate Amazon because the customer experience is pretty good, and they rely on the government to enforce basic labor standards. It isn't something people are very interested in on a per-company basis. Whereas issues with big box stores replacing numerous industries with many fewer jobs is more of a community issue, where the only solution is for the people who care to shop more locally and preserve some fraction of the smaller businesses.
The one time I did shop at Wally World, we received a wedding gift of a $50 gift card from there. Which was easy to solve, we bought a gift for a holiday charity event.
If the conditions are that bad, QUIT, go somewhere else! "But there isn't anything else"...and that's Amazon's fault?
Price alone isn't a justification for such conditions. If anything, price-related justifications show a callous disregard for those that do work (or seek it).
If anything, this is a reason why permatemping (what Amazon is doing), classification abuse (hiding behind a third party), and zero-hour work (the ultimate in precarious work when combined w/ UK-style workfare) needs to DIAF and the remains be shoveled into the nearest black hole.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Yes, we should thank Amazon for allowing workers to sleep in tents.
Once an employee leaves Amazon's premises it is none of Amazon's damn business what they do or don't do. They have no right to "allow" or "prohibit" their employees from using, or not using, any sleeping arrangement.
Disclaimer: When I first moved to Silicon Valley, I lived in a van for two years.
Out of 4,000 workers, a newspaper managed to find three tents out in the woods, one of which they reported as apparently abandoned and the actual person in one tent made it clear he had a home elsewhere he could sleep in, but preferred to be closer to work to save on commuting costs.
Clearly Amazon is at fault for daring to provide someone employment. Probably the other 3,998 or so people they hired are just sleeping without tents because of their super low wages, right?
In most places (notably, non-prisons and without servant's quarters...), companies don't decide for and aren't responsible for their employees where and how they are allowed to live. That's up to the employee to decide for themselves.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
... CEOs and shareholders who want instant asymptotic revenue growth.
Morals, ethics, decency, and humanity are for non-profits.
In the US, SCOTUS says Amazon is a person.
They didn't specify what kind.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
The summary says "he stuff was stolen". But the article itself is much less clear:
He added that he had opted to stay in a tent as it was easier and cheaper than commuting from his home in Perth, although his camping equipment had disappeared by Friday afternoon.
Did he say it had vanished? Or did the article writer find it had vanished on Friday? Not at all clear.
Also no aspect of the interview really asking the guy if he "had to" camp as the Willie bloke claimed, they just want you to assume that is the case. The actual guy who was camping just said it was cheaper and easier - if you are just going to be there a few week or two for seasonal work why wouldn't you prefer this to any kind of commute? Back when I used to work insane hours programming I slept under my desk for a week. It wasn't because I had to, it was just way easier at the time.
Also low 30's (assuming F) is not "battery cold", it's just mildly chilly and most sleeping bags would handle that temperature easily. I've camped before in sub-zero (again F) temperatures before and that's not at all uncomfortable with the right equipment.
Basically the whole thing seems written with a pre-determined viewpoint in mind and hardly any real research or interviewing done.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
26.5% of salary as rent and you are complaining? Try living in the Bay area. Here is a sample Budget
$125000 a year for a mid level person with a family.
=$10500 a month Gross
=$9500 a month after Social security and Medicare
=$8800 a month after federal taxes
=$8000 a month after California taxes and SDi
=$7000 a month after Health Insurance premiums for a family of 4
=$6000 a month after 401K (retirement contribution as there are no pensions)
=$6000 a month take home
=$3000 a month after rent (Rent for a crappy 2 Bedroom apt is $3000 and can go all the way upto $6000 in silicon valley)
=$2500 a month after utilities (no the 3000 a month does not include utilities or renters insurance)
=$2000 a month after Car payments,Insurance and Gas
Now family of 4 eating 3 times a day for 30 days a month = 360 meals. Assuming a $5 per person/meal =$1800
=$200 a month after food
With that $200 you have to buy school supplies, car repairs, any other emergency.
Pretty much the only entertainment you can afford is TV and a little eating out once in a while.
No savings for childrens college
No savings for replacing car when it breaks down so next car will also have to be on loan
No savings for saving a downpayment to actually buy a house
No savings for if you lose your job. Plus if you are working on a visa you wont get unemployment even though you pay into Social Security.
No scope for signing up children to extra classes so if your public school is messing up they are screwed as you cant pay for college. Their only hope is scholarships
No scope for getting a divorce if your marriage is not working out as you cannot afford to pay alimony, child support and rent on 2 places.
Do note 50% of take home goes to rent and another 10% to utilities so the basic cost of keeping a roof over your head is 60% of take home.
**Life is too short to be serious**
Down by the river?
I've met a lot of people that have trouble wrapping their head around how I feel about unions.
Unions are a glorious thing that have helped a lot of workers. I wish I had an engineers union like the Germans do that fight for all workers in it.
The UAW one of the most corrupt, bloated, useless organizations I've ever had to deal with.
America still uses the old pre-metric measurements, that's not in Celsius. He actually meant -2C, a rather nice winter temperature if you can avoid the ice storms and black ice.
It's neither strawman nor bullshit. If individuals are permitted to control their costs by selecting the lowest-priced goods and services available to them then why would a corporation not be permitted to do the same?
Ask any Irish friend you have about the "Penny Walls" in Ireland, and you'll have your answer.
The original linked article only says 'bitterly cold', which depending on the person could be anything below room temperature. The slashdot summary may have looked at the area weather forecast, and says lows INTO the 30s, which could just mean 39F. Then you have a poster reminding readers that 32F = 0C, now we hit freezing. The latest number thrown out is -2C (around 28F), now it's below freezing.
Isn't it fun how numbers change so quickly?
Half of 'a lot' is still 'a lot'. But 'incentive to move' is one thing, its the 'capacity to move' thats vaporising. As orgs get larger and larger, the base of the pyramid gets wider. If you were born on the wrong side of the tracks, this means fewer bridges to the prosperous side of town. Making the glitzy side glitzier does nothing except cement dissatisfaction.
There were already similar stories in the US where Amazon workers lived in camper RVs and travelled from warehouse to warehouse as work was needed. So it does happen here.
Beyond that, I used to work in an office park with small number of fulfillment warehouses. During a health kick phase of my life, I used to spend an hour a day walking the office park in loops. It was reasonably safe and let me de-stress from work. It was during these walks when I happened to look into the adjacent woods you normally could not see from within the office park or the road and realized there were numerous tents set up, some carefully camouflaged.
This wasn't even Amazon but a much smaller fulfillment operation, mainly for Brother products. And it was 8 years ago.
Sig for hire.
Because of the asymmetry in levels of influence. Don't you remember the 19th-century industrialization process and the civic problems it spawned I until proper worker protection, unions etc were invented? Geez, don't you guys learn anythingnin school over there?
Heh. I worked at a place that made specialized data processing equipment. We had a shower so people could ride to work, say, or work out during lunch.
One of the engineers was living in his car in the parking lot, and at the time this guy had to have been making more than the average household income. I asked him why he didn't get an apartment and he shrugged and said he didn't see any reason to.
Commuting cost is because Amazon shuttle is expensive. Amazon pay people salary and then charges them a lot to get to and from work. The commuting cost is not independent of Amazon.
You had to over embellish with "tips", didn't you...
It's nearly Christmas, so time to being out the Christmas themed quotes.
Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Corporations are people. And some corporations are very small - how large does a corporation have to be before we arbitrarily say that corporations no longer deserve due care?
Just a meta-comment on a couple of points.
Searched for funny comments. Not quite nothing, but the few that were moderated funny were barely.
Searched for "evil", but only referenced in a sig.
Searched the insightful comments. Not.
Searched for references to any of the books I've read about Amazon. Nothing.
Several hundred comments. The article is probably about to expire. Wanted to find some part of the discussion that was worth participating in. Failed.
Oh well. Capsule summary. I stopped doing business with Amazon many years ago because I felt they were abusing my privacy and my personal information. (Also no visible references to those two terms as of this writing.) Just went through a 16-month episode of Amazon spamming that was only stopped (if it has been stopped) by appeal to jeff@ himself. Yet in conclusion, I don't really blame Amazon for becoming evil. That's just the rules of the business game these decades. If a company fails to become sufficiently evil, then it gets destroyed like roadkill. (I think NetScape, Sun, Palm, and Nokia are examples of such destruction.)
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
The article describe three tents outside the Amazon facility, one abandoned, one where the occupant say he's there out of convenience (the tent "was easier and cheaper than commuting from his home,"), and no word about the third.
We're talking about 2-3 workers out of several thousand temporary workers...that is a tiny, tiny, tiny portion of the workforce.
Ken
One of the engineers was living in his car in the parking lot, and at the time this guy had to have been making more than the average household income. I asked him why he didn't get an apartment and he shrugged and said he didn't see any reason to.
Indeed never presume to understand the reasons why people do something. We had an instrument technician who parked his caravan outside our plant when we hired him as a temporary worker. I asked him about it and he said it was easy. He was single, not attached to a location, had no expenses, and after doing it for under 2 years had enough money to buy a house in cash setting him up for a fantastic future life.
Here I am 8 years later with a mortgage.
You had to over embellish with "tips", didn't you...
The fine article mentioned Scotland.
Scotland as you may or may not know is part of the United Kingdom of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland otherwise known as the "UK" for short. The UK is a short trip across the Atlantic Ocean which re refer to as "the Pond", right above this little consent that a certain NASCAR driver may call COMMUNIST but most of us know as Europe or Overbearing Money Grubbing Wankers... depending if you're sane or a UKIP voter.
Here in the UK we do not engage in this vulgar activity of "tipping" as we prefer to pay our workers a wage they can live on rather than relegating them to begging for scraps from the lords table... We did away with that nonsense centuries ago.
Of course, that being Scotland they will be fine if Amazon dropped off some Tennents and a few packs of fags.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
I've met a lot of people that have trouble wrapping their head around how I feel about unions.
Unions are a glorious thing that have helped a lot of workers. I wish I had an engineers union like the Germans do that fight for all workers in it.
The UAW one of the most corrupt, bloated, useless organizations I've ever had to deal with.
A lot of people understand.
Especially outside the US where we can separate the concept of labour unionism and the current sad state of some unions.
I agree and support the idea of labour unionism, it has bought us many advances and was instrumental in the rise of the working middle class. What I cant agree with are 6 union secretaries sitting around a table at a Chinese restaurant deciding things for everyone else.
Most of the above quote can be attributed to Australian politician and columnist, Mark Latham. You can support the idea of a union whilst opposing corruption within a union.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.