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Microsoft Exec Admits They 'Went Too Far' With Aggressive Windows 10 Updates (softpedia.com)
It's no secret that Microsoft has been aggressively pushing Windows 10 to users. Over the past year and a half, we have seen users complain about Windows 10 automatically getting downloaded to their computer, and in some cases, getting installed on its own as well. The automatic download irked many users who were on limited or slow data plans, or didn't want to spend gigabytes of data on Windows 10. A company executive has admitted for the first time that they may have went overboard with Windows 10 updates. From a report on Softpedia: Chris Capossela, Chief Marketing Officer at Microsoft, said in the latest edition of the Windows Weekly that this was the moment when the company indeed went too far, pointing out that the two weeks between the moment when users started complaining about the unexpected behavior and the one when a patch was released were "very painful." "We know we want people to be running Windows 10 from a security perspective, but finding the right balance where you're not stepping over the line of being too aggressive is something we tried and for a lot of the year I think we got it right, but there was one particular moment in particular where, you know, the red X in the dialog box which typically means you cancel didn't mean cancel," he said. "And within a couple of hours of that hitting the world, with the listening systems we have we knew that we had gone too far and then, of course, it takes some time to roll out the update that changes that behavior. And those two weeks were pretty painful and clearly a lowlight for us. We learned a lot from it obviously."
How can an entire team of engineers be so foolish?
And within a couple of hours of that hitting the world, with the listening systems we have we knew that we had gone too far
Did those "listening systems" include computers with freshly installed without permission Windows 10 sending home recordings of their owners going "What the hell is this shit? I didn't agree to this!"?
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
Better to ask for forgiveness than permission I guess
Translation: We want everyone to be running Windows 10 from a we-now-control-every-aspect-of-your-(our)-computer perspective. We can't actually force updates on other versions, but we'll do our level best to force the version on you that we can do that with. We regret the negative publicity that the lengths we went to to make this happen caused.
This is not about pushing out a security update that cripples a system. This about Microsoft forcing people to use a new operating system which they did not agree to by circumventing standard UI behavior. Don't do it again or you will face more lawsuits.
"And those two weeks were pretty painful and clearly a lowlight for us. We learned a lot from it obviously."
Yeah, if only you guys had had some kind of organizational history to draw upon that could have provided some insight into the effects of releasing monolithic patches touching all parts of the operating system, without testing, and without machine owner approval.
"We know we want people to be running Windows 10 from a security perspective"
Correction: "We know we want people to be running Windows 10 from a data collection perspective"
This guy doesn't regret pushing the updates -- what he regrets is causing a tidal wave of tech support issues.
Apple admitting that they overcharge for memory upgrades?
I am running El Capitan on my Macbook pro, yet sitting in the Applications folder is a 4.78 GB installer for macOS Sierra that I never authorized to download.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
The problem is contained in his statement: "We know we want people to be running Windows 10 from a security perspective..."
To be successful a company should NEVER let 'what they want' get in the way of 'what the customer wants'. It is pretty simple but when a company gets way too powerful in their position this sort of crap happens.
Are they sorry? If so, will they ever be anything but sorry?
The dialog was always misleading. The presence in the system tray was always annoying to users.
"And those two weeks were pretty painful and clearly a lowlight for us. We learned a lot from it obviously."
Even if all the major bugs get worked out of Win10 (say, SP2-3 or so), I really don't expect Win10 to EVER lose the taint that Microsoft's deployment of it, in the eyes of all too many of its' customers.
I mean, you KNOW it's bad, when your non-techie wife asks about Linux, after an uncommanded Win10 install (and rollback) left her gaming--and-graphics box messed up until I could restore it from the image file I had made a month prior. . .
People these days think all the responsibility they need to take is just to "talk about it openly".
People screwing up this bad should have some real sense of responsibility.
These actions are first sanctioned at the highest level. Then, long after it's been executed, and harm done, mere apologies are issued.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
They got close to a billion users to upgrade and have their computing environment be monetized with marginal cost to the company and they acted too quickly for the FTC or whomever to do anything about it.
They did this just right. If you're Microsoft, of course.
The 2% of people who switched to Mac and and 0.5% of people who switched to FLOSS desktops are totally acceptable costs.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Fuck off you liars.
They still go too far. I have no problem the default behavior being that updates are applied automatically but what goes too far is that 1. this isn't disable-able, 2. their "Active Hours" can't be longer than 12 hours so I can assume my machine won't reboot for only 12 hours out of the day (morning OR night but can't have both), and 3. I should be able to decide what my machine does if I so choose; not Microsoft.
I really like Windows 10 aside from their automatic updates, data collection, and ads in my start menu. They all get disabled in the end but it's kind of a pain in the ass because Microsoft doesn't want me to do so. At least they can't stop my router from denying access to network services ^_^
-SaNo
It is easier to ask forgiveness (even with a half-assed apology like this), than permission.
Silence is a state of mime.
To get itself installed then maybe the software is lacking in merit.
When I cloned my HDD to an SSD on a USB adapter, Win10 marked the SSD as a "portable OS" in the registry and that later prevented the anniversary update from installing on a USB drive (never mind that the SSD booted from SATA). I actually had to open regedit.exe to edit the "portable OS" key from "1" to "0" for the anniversary update to install properly.
I think Microsoft hasn't gone far enough with shoving Win10 onto all their users. I mean, there are still people willing to put up with Microsoft, so their job isn't done yet. Their "Switch to Linux" program has done plenty to piss some people off but they haven't pissed off all of their users enough that they are willing to jump ship. ;)
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
It's easier to apologize than to ask permission.
Watch out! We got a badass over here!
...there are more than two options when you try to turn off your computer. 1) Upgrade and Restart or 2) Upgrade and Shutdown
Just yesterday, My gaming machine, the only windows install left in the house, came in with an ominous warning as I was playing a game: It said it had downloaded an update, and that it would restart in 20 minutes, whether I wanted it or not. No installing at night, or tomorrow, or anything. Imagine if instead of playing a game, I was giving a talk.
This is the kind of shit that makes people not use windows for work.
You are dead to me. No justifications required anymore.
(here on Brazil) Linux desktops are getting to be an viable option for corporations here: thanks again, M$!
Dear Chris,
This Christmas, would you please send me and all of us Windows 10 users the gift of NOT AUTOMATICALLY RESTARTING MY FUCKING COMPUTER WHEN YOU UPDATE BECAUSE I WALKED AWAY FROM IT FOR TWO MINUTES AFTER "WORKING HOURS"? I have lost my open browser tabs and other work so many times now that you are destroying the user experience of millions of people, including me. And no, work hours for people like myself who consult are completely random and I'm not about to change them manually every time I need to change my hours or they extend beyond a limit you assume is mine.
Best Regards,
StandardCell
it looked and worked the same as Windows 7. No weird splash pop-ups. No Cortana, no bin of broken-dependency plugins which somehow cause the whole system to be unstable. After months of fighting with Windows 10 (common refrain in my house "Oh my gawd, why is this taking so LONG!"), and some of my forum-sourced tweaks at trying to speed things up (to just even a reasonable speed, I had given up hoping it would be as fast and reliable as Ubuntu), the thing was so broken I had to re-install ... Windows 7.
It was like stepping out into a clear day from the fog. Everything works (sorta, after figuring out the initial Get Updates Functional and Started fiasco, which requires a separate download, since their original update manager doesn't play with the current update server). Programs load. The Start menu works, and just has Start menu stuff in it, no weather, no news, no ads. Seriously, who came up with the brilliant idea of putting ads in my Start bar. STOP IT! I should have to install some seriously advanced viruses to get that s**t. But now they come with a fresh install, directly from Microsoft.
And now they're un-supporting Windows7 entirely, no new updates. Don't see why, as far as I can tell, most of the base operating system is the same, except for Windows 10 built in spyware. None-the-less, I will stick with Windows 7 until it becomes unusable, and then I think my family will just have to figure out Mint or Ubuntu or something. I'm done with Microsoft.
Last week Windows Weekly left us with a cliffhanger tease about a special surprise guest.
Well... guess I know who that is now.
Actually, I kid, I don't really care. I just thought it was funny that WW (not an often cited podcast) would be featured on /.
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
No, in fact, that isn't the slightest bit obvious. In fact, nothing I've seen even begins to suggest it. But you are welcome to make it so.
The NA-way: apologize and get away with it.
What version of chrome are you running (assuming you are not on a mobile device)?
I actually consider Windows 10 to be completely flawed due to its forced and frequent update scheme.
I often only boot up my Windows PC every week or two. Invariably, there will be updates to process. What this means is that just about every boot takes multiple minutes to complete.
I consider an operating system that takes many minutes to start up in the year 2016 when using a fast SSD drive, to be fundamentally flawed.
Additionally, there have been times when I have left a long-running boot up and had the operating system force-reboot my system for updates while I was in the middle of actively using it.
That is 100% unacceptable. Even if by design, I consider it to be intrinsically flawed as an operating system.
These issues are so onerous to me that they lead me to hate Windows 10 with a white-hot passion. The only reason I am using it is because I have to for my VR PC ...
The whole "we knew we'd gone too far with that specific incident" mea culpa is bullshit anyway, designed to frame things as if that was solely why people remembered being pissed off at MS- and having apologised for that alone, everyone would think "oh, it wasn't that big, they messed up once but now it's okay and aren't MS mostly great really?"
In reality, they'd been aggressively pushing Windows 10 for months on end by that point (from late 2015 until the "offer" ended in mid-2016) repeatedly trying to override users' explicit wishes against that, to the extent of using techniques that even bland, MOR IT publications were comparing to malware.
Now they're trying to minimise peoples' memories of the incident to the maliciously-designed "close button" semantics? Not even close. That was merely the peak of the obnoxiousness. They repeatedly and consistently maintained this behaviour for several months- they knew exactly what they were doing.
And they know exactly what they're doing with this self-serving, PR-approved "apology" that doesn't begin to cover what actually happened.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Up the ass. With a big stick. With lots of thorns.
"...We learned a lot from it obviously."
They learned nothing from it. They don't give a fuck about their users, and they've proved it so many times that I've lost count.
"but there was one particular moment in particular where, you know, the red X in the dialog box which typically means you cancel didn't mean cancel,"
Bullshit. There had to be dozens and dozens of people involved in the decision to implement that UI-breaking "feature", if not a hundred or more.
The fact that all of them signed off on it tells you everything you need to know about Microsoft. They'll happily break their own product and deceive you in order to trick you into "upgrading".
Fuck you, Microsoft.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
In the Trump Era you don't admit to mistakes.
Table-ized A.I.
Appy, appy, joy, joy! Appy, appy, joy, joy! :)))
No, he meant what he said by "...want people to be running Windows 10 from a security perspective".
But although he implied that he meant "from the end user's computer security perspective", actually he means "from a Microsoft's future financial security perspective".
Which does include data harvesting, as you point out. But also Win10 is the path to the OS on a subscription model.
"Rather beg forgiveness, not ask permission" comes to mind.
Well, let's hope it is the seed for some good lawsuits.
Agreed, i'm surprised the cancel-to-upgrade dialogue is the one thing that they say went too far, and not the months of upgrade nagging beforehand.
Not to mention that even once you have the fucking OS installed, it still constantly nags you to update for every minor patch every few days and wants to restart your PC with no way to disable it, until one day it just decides on its own to restart your PC, too bad if you're downloading something overnight or have unsaved work or in the middle of a major business presentation. Fun fact, that's exactly what happened to Mike Krahulik's Surface while doing the live comic at PAX AUS this year. MS should have been really fucking embarrassed about that but they don't seem to have any shame any more.
Yesterday my neighbour came in and said his computer is not working - I discovered later it was win10, looked like it had the dhcp bug covered in /. and some update had restored the default screen. It was slow even on a brand new two month old hp shop bought laptop with installed help (trash)
I run linux so i had an enjoyable hour looking through win 10, eventually it connected and synced his email via the wndows crapware.
I genuinely felt sorry for them that MS and there partners had screwed up the most idiotic task of reading and sending email. The hope in this is that the next version will be even more useless and drive people to avoid microsoft 'products'
Microsoft screws its customers in different ways on a regular basis. Said customers keep coming back for more. Why apologize? If anything, Microsoft should up the ante and find out how much crap its customers are willing to put up with. For example, if I were Microsoft I would not only force them to upgrade, but I would also charge them for the privilege. Why not? If those suckers go for it...
After saying they're sorry are they changing their forced system updates policy? No. Just that after Windows 10 has gained critical mass they may say whatever you like.
I used this utility from Gibson Research Corp. Works great. https://www.grc.com/never10.ht...
Hey, if EAFP worked for Guido van Rossum and his Python Software Foundation, it can work for Microsoft.
IF this was the first time MS did something that was totally not user friendly THAN their apology would be reasonable but they've been behaving like this since MS DOS days...it's the old 'Its easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to ask for permission' behaviour. You only get 1 shot at that & they've used their's up LONG ago.
Take a hike MS we don't need you.
Microsoft's push to get more users to upgrade seems to be backfiring. I was approached by two people this week who asked me to help them transition off Windows. They both now have Linux running on their laptops and appear to be happy with the change, particuarly the increase in performance.
They learned that they can get away with whatever they fucking want to because most people aren't going to go out and buy a damn Mac or reinitialize their entire Windows system.
"We know we want people to be running Windows 10 from a security perspective"
Translation: We want to be your nanny for the greater good!
"but finding the right balance where you're not stepping over the line of being too aggressive is something we tried and for a lot of the year I think we got it right"
Translation: We strongly believe a lot of you don't know any better and can be taken advantage of.
"but there was one particular moment in particular where, you know, the red X in the dialog box which typically means you cancel didn't mean cancel," he said. "And within a couple of hours of that hitting the world, with the listening systems we have we knew that we had gone too far and then, of course, it takes some time to roll out the update that changes that behavior. And those two weeks were pretty painful and clearly a lowlight for us. We learned a lot from it obviously." "
Translation: We forcibly updated end users machines. Then we stated it was a bug. Then we got sued over it. Now we're admitting to doing it intentionally. But instead of it being a move to profiteer, it really was a mistake in judgement, which is totally obvious, and it's also totally obvious to everyone we've learned our lesson, right guys?
These people have caused billions of dollars of damage to corporate and private computing infrastructure in the form of millions of man-hours in work to correct the operation of said infrastructure both by professionals and novices. They did this purely and solely for their own profit. The only way to fix this debacle is to put everyone, from the executive management down to the line to the guys who committed the code, on trial for criminal trespass and intentional destruction of property. They knew this was going to break things, they simply did not care, they did it for their own profit and only for their own profit.
Microsoft's Marketing Director was hired directly from the Italian mob, the spin in this PR Piece is un-freaking-believable. That any media company would run this piece is unconscionable. Nadella and Microsoft are getting a reputation for reinforcing Indian stereotypes with this kind of behavior and it will simply not end well for them in the long-run as every single time Nadella opens his mouth, the public is listening not about the next great innovation, but about what is going to be done to them under whatever auspice the people at Microsoft want to believe today and how bad it's going to be.
"NEVER ask for permission. Ask for foregivness, AFTER you've accomplished what you wanted."
.
imo, Microsoft knew exactly what they were doing all along with the forced march to Windows 10, up to and including execs blogging about how sorry they are.
I just reset two Lenovo laptops for my work (they were the bosses kids old laptops), and I actually wouldn't mind loading W10 on them, and now it's no longer coming up as an option...d'oh.
You wrecked so many people's world. Guess who had to fix it. Shit in your own nest this time Microsoft. Don't expect us to be as easy as you are being on yourself. You screwed up bad.
"Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press"
Oh, bullshit. If security was their motivation, they'd patch Win 7 and Win 8 and not force people onto Win 10.
Pushing people onto Win 10 is for control and surveillance (primarily for marketing), pure and simple.
I'd wager they didn't learn "don't push crap onto users who don't want it," just "be more subtle about it."
If you're appy and you know it, app your apps.
If you're appy and you know it, app your apps.
If you're appy and you know it, and you really want to show it.
If you're appy and you know it, app your apps.
"Yes means no and no means yes. Do you want me to hit you?"
Oh, no! You have walked into the slavering fangs of a lurking grue!
Don't need to imagine a different use case frankly. It is gour gaming box, when you finally have time to game it doesn't.
Unfit for a purpose.
You resort to malware tactics to trick your users into doing what you want rather than what they want, and give yourself all kinds of permissions in the process to rummage through their data, and you conclude that you might have gone a tiny bit too far?
I'd like to watch him hire a carpenter to fix a door, only to watch the guy help himself to rummage through his house, making notes of everything, every book, every movie he owns a copy of and making copies of any interesting papers found during the excursion. I'm sure he'd love that.
Fucking asshole, he should hang from the nearest tree.
Was public relations deciding it was ok to launch the shuttle when the engineers kept telling them it was too cold.
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
>It's no secret that Microsoft has been aggressively pushing Windows 10 to users.
Well apparently it was to them.
MS's echo-chamber is so insulated from the real world that the pushy behavior itself, they view as a courteous service to it's users! They were genuinely shocked that the user base themselves consider this behavior as aggressive. Can not MS fathom the world outside their own?
"Oh, this type of push is appropriate business & forward thinking."
"Oh, we're just doing what's best for the customer."
"Oh, this is not aggressive. Aggressive is a negative term and we're merely 'positively encouraging' the computers themselves err I mean our customers themselves to upgrade. It's for their own good of course. We're friendly over here! (Walter do you have a dictionary? Define aggressive for me- we need to know what the plebes think of us STAT!"
_
There are options to block forced updates and shut down telemetry. Just install and manage yourself what, how and when you want.
Try SpyBot Anti Beacon and O&O ShutUp
Windows itself (7 & 8) became a malware/bot-net with these aggressive tactics. I'm still pissed off about it. I had to go out of my way to find tools to disable the reminders. Some people weren't so lucky, and it AUTOMATICALLY installed on their systems without consent of the users. I'm no legal expert but there HAS to be some kind of lawsuit material with that stunt. If there was a class action, I'd sign up.
I upgraded to LINUX years ago... it was the perfect solution. Everyone should try it !! :D
Higuita
The only 'obvious' thing here is that you shouldn't lie to, trick, and deceive your customers. Why you had to 'learn' this is not obvious at all; in fact, it would be a total fucking mystery if not for the fact that Microsoft has demonstrably corrupt and psychopathic leadership. This 'we learned our lesson' shit just doesn't fly - all you've learned is that you need to be less heavy-handed if you want to continue to screw people over without suffering a massive backlash from your customers and getting bitch-slapped in the tech press.
'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
A Windows 10 update removed ALL of the graphics drivers for my son's GTX-1080. This despite trying to block them as much as possible.
Fortunately it was a small matter for the tech-savvy kid to reinstall them, and if not, I could have managed, but imaging if we had been clueless consumers spending significant cash on a gaming PC, that Microsoft now "broke".
I think the next time it happens I will send them a bill for our time: I consult at $350 an he at $175 an hour.
In Liberty, Rene
I'm abandoning Microsoft after Windows 7 becomes usably obsolete, which is probably a very long time away given that software companies KNOW people hate 8+ and (wisely) still support 7.
I run Windows 7 at home with updates fully disabled. It was set to "Notify me but don't automatically download or install them" prior to the Windows 10 scare, but I didn't even trust that. I've also set up a Linux machine at home as a secondary, having become familiar with it at work. Eventually, Linux is all I'll use. Gaming is really the only thing Windows offers, but realistically, I don't play that much on PC. I prefer the ease of consoles.
I will never allow them to alter or brick my computer, nor will I pay a subscribe fee to simply use it.
My machines, my rules. I don't forgive and I don't forget. Fuck Microsoft. Their half-hearted apologies are worthless.
And with the conclusion of this hollow apology, cue the next announcement: your Windows SaaS subscription dues will be due in x days or we will deprecate your experience by serving more ads on our machine that happens to be in your possession.
Hehehe, my captcha is "unplug". How deliciously apropo.
Windows Cumulative updates utterly clogging my home network was the final bullet for me. Every month, every machine is downloading huge amounts of data
(there's a PCworld article somewhere about it), nothing else can use the network while this happens because the update service connects to so many machines simultaneously. Utterly fscking unusable, every damn time I wanted to sit down and do something, some win10 machine was being a pig. Why was I living with this lousy software?
Ahh. I have just iced windows off my last machine. Moved to a mix of Debian and ubuntu. WIndows is now jailed in virtual machines to which I control the damned network connection. Off when I want, and browsing/working using the well behaved host OS whenever I want. Feelssss greaaattttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Capture: "spyglass" --- and now with less telemetry to boot!
The power of a software proprietor won't be deterred by a few lawsuits or fines. You read it in Microsoft's response, their "listening systems" tell them things, things their users can't help but divulge as long as they are running Microsoft's software. This is what proprietors do because they control the software their users run and their users (no matter how long they've run the software, no matter how well they keep up with what configuration options are available) are no match for source code kept hidden from the users when the users only get binaries.
To expect differently is to announce that one doesn't understand the power proprietors have, use, and how they make their money and wield their power.
It's sad to read about people in other posts "rolling back" Windows 10 to something (presumably another proprietor's software, perhaps even another variant of Windows) where they think they will have more control. Microsoft has already demonstrated (via so-called "forced upgrades" of Windows 7 to Windows 10) that they can and will deploy whatever software they want to any networked Windows endpoint they wish. As long as you insist on running the proprietor's software you have a lot less freedom to control how that software behaves than you think you do.
Digital Citizen
Translation: M$ burned me before, but I couldn't just switch to Linux because that would have been painful. I kept using their products and they burned me again, really bad. Now, I'm angry. I'm pissed. I'm furious. They had better never do that again, because I really don't want to have to walk away. I'm really serious about it. They'd better not burn me again. Surely they won't ever do it again ...cuz I'm so pissed. So, I guess I'll just rant and give them another chance.
You're not going to find what they're looking for.
I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it again: FUCK MICROSOFT
Fortunately for me, myself, and I don't use their product(s) anymore. Haven't for over a decade now.
And thankfully, where we must (accounting at work) ... I control the router. *.microsoft.com was/is blocked. Windows is an appliance to run a few apps and those stations are blocked from any Internet access altogether anyway.
Fuck Microsoft. See, I said it again.
Fuck you! Now I'm going to have that damn song in my head for the next year.
Oh please stop with the "source equals security" bullshit which is trivially proven false, ready? You have the source, kindly list for us the vulnerabilities in the Linux networking stack...what, you can't? How about any lousy code in the audio stacks? What you HAVE vetted the code, yes?
The "source equals security" fallacy is a fallacy of assumption, you assume because the code is there someone has done the work for you and vetted these millions of lines of code with zero actual evidence that it has actually occurred and in fact vulnerabilities like Heartbleed, Bash weaknesses that have sat there for years and the plethora of Linux targeted malware including commercial attacks give plenty of evidence that the opposite is true and the majority of code isn't looked at beyond whomever is actually working on the thing.
I think Windows 10 is a giant POS where the only thing that runs reliably is its baked in spyware (which makes it similar to Android so if Nutella is trying to copy Google? Mission accomplished.) but I also hate OS flag waving bullshit when it has no evidence to back it up, from "OSX doesn't get malware" which Macheads simply changed the definition of what malware was until that statement could still prove true and in the same vein with Linux based Android beating Windows several years in a row when it comes to malware growth and major Linux exploits coming out of the woodwork claiming source equals security is no different than claiming Santa Claus protects your OS, you have the same level of evidence for both statements.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
All I can do is blink dumbly after reading that.
They knew that they had gone too far, and yet they didn't revert what they did.
"We learned a lot from that"
Are you fucking serious? How breathtakingly stupid do you have to be to not realize how dishonest this tactic was, before you even started writing one line of the the freaking code?
So basically, Microsoft Marketing have finally realized that they have proven to the world that Microsoft is just as evil now as they were before, so now they're trying to deflect and make it look like incompetence rather than malice. Sorry, no. You don't "accidentally" turn Windows Update into a malware vector. You don't "accidentally" design an operating system around spying on the user, and forcing it to be an ad platform against the user's wishes. You don't "accidentally" steal away fundamental control of a user's machine, and deny them the right to take it back again.
I don't know what this idiot was hoping to accomplish with his post, but I doubt he succeeded.
Who is he trying to bullshit? They've angled for different tricks about six times in a row.
The only thing that their epiphanies lead to are additional different attempts to screw over their customers, in the hope that none will ultimately escape.
And what about using people's capped bandwidth to infect other people's computers with the Windows 10 VIRUS!, And the constant nag screens that just wouldn't go away?! And the forced installs (You KNOW you did it!)?! And the just never taking NO! for an answer?! And installing your SPYWARE on Windows 7 and 8 machines?!?! And rebooting people's machines to do updates whenever you want, no matter what important work you may be interrupting/destroying?!?!?! And installing first and then asking the user to agree, instead of ASKING FIRST!!!!!!!! Did you think we would forget ANY of your sneaky malware tactics????? WELL FUCK OFF MICRO$HAFT!!! EAT SHIT AND DIE!!!! EAT MORE SHIT AND DIE AGAIN!!!!!!
Reminds me of Catch Me If You Can
Frank: Uh... I want it to be over.
Frank: I'm getting married.
Frank: You know, I'm settling down.
Carl: You've stolen almost $4 million.
Carl: You think we can just call that a wedding present?
Carl: Nah, this isn't something you get to walk away from, Frank.
Frank: I want to call a truce.
Carl: No truce.
Carl: You will be caught, you will go to prison.
Carl: Where did you think this was going?
So selfless of them! It was just for our security!
I just installed windows 10 and had to click through 3 tabs full of toggles that all wanted to send my data to Microsoft.
The key for windows 10 pro cost 20 dollars. They are jumping on the surveillance businessmodel like everybody else.
>Oh please stop with the "source equals security" bullshit which is trivially proven false, ready?
What are you talking about? He didn't mention security at all. He did mention that if the source code is public you can't do nefarious shit with it. All it takes is being caught *once* and nobody is going to trust you ever again. Think a big company will risk that? Not likely, except when they are idiots (it happened before and was caught).
The source equals security from the company providing the software you fool. The company can not stick in any code the end user can not remove and recompile to run, also everyone sees exactly what the perves are trying to steal from you and put a stop to it. It is also demonstrably more secure the closed source proprietary software from an external view point and that's a well proven fact.
M$ are just a slimy pack of privacy invasive scum looking to sell the private lives of their customers and their families, leave them subject to invasive corporate and government hacks with targeted upgrades and generally behaving in the most disgusting antisocial ways imaginable.
The apology a sure sign that those assholes are coming under regulatory consideration and a lot of their corrupt disgusting behaviour will be legislated against.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
And from what I read at least some of those final statistics may in fact have included ALL installs, omitting people who then rolled back their upgrades.
When MS began forcing updates to W10, I disabled the updates on my W8.1 machine. When MS stopped forcing updates I turned on Windows update. When MS changed to all updates in a single package, I again disabled updates. I do not expect to turn them back on. Number of virus, trojans, or rootkits hit with: 0. I had a Windows table that MS attempted to force update. Result: I smashed tablet with hammer and sent the pieces to MS explaining why the tablet ended up in its condition.
I own my machines, let me run them.
Again you have ZERO EVIDENCE that the bazillion coders that make up the hodge podge of software that is stuck together to form a Linux OS hasn't fucked you just as hard because nobody has vetted the entire stack and in fact unlike Windows vetting a Linux OS would be impossible as unlike Windows where one version is supported for a decade before you even got the vetting done the pieces would have had 3 or 4 revisions!
So I'm sorry but the only fool is you. I have provided links showing that source equals security is a complete fallacy yet you hang onto this bullshit belief like a flat earther coming up with ever more insane logical hoops to try to justify your insanity. Source isn't magic wands, code doesn't vet itself, and you sir are no different than any other FOSSSie who doesn't understand basic concepts like the is ought fallacy which your entire belief system is based upon.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
APK, is that you?
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
the autism-hating, custom EpiPen-hating, Musk-hating Slashdot troll!
I had to read down this far for someone to finally comment on how simple it would be for poor Microsoft to avoid those two agonizing weeks.
Nice post. Someone please mod it up.
Until I can completely disable auto-updates I won't be using windows 10 its as simple as that.
Not many companies have the courage to piss off all of their customers on a regular basis. Do not listen to the haters, Microsoft. You got this. Don't head down the slippery slope of apologizing, because next thing you know you're actually compensating people for the harm you've caused. Or even, heaven forbid, improving your product so that people want it rather than being upset about it being forced upon them.
Same as the apps that "helpfully" want to switch your homepage or download a pile of crap you don't need unless you find the tiny tick box to opt out, don't understand the principle of informed consent and no means no.
How's life in the hypocrite lane?
I had to read down this far for someone to finally comment on how simple it would be for poor Microsoft to avoid those two agonizing weeks.
Nice post. Someone please mod it up.
Why the fuck should the abusive troll known as Bitztream be modded up!?
Wow! Amazing! You're drowning in pussy, aren't you?
For a brief moment I thought you're talking about the "updates" that are still being forced down the throats of Windows 10 users that brick systems and render them unusable, but instead you're seeking forgiveness for something that cannot be undone and that has been over for months now anyway?
Fuck you.
Go play with something poisonous and kill yourself.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
This isnt about Open Source or Security moron. Its about having more options than only 1.
You buy a piece of software, you are at the mercy of whoever made it. They can stop producing it, charge more money for it etc, etc.
If you have access to the source however, and have any technical means, this no longer becomes a problem. No locking possible.
An offer you can't refuse
Your post wreaks of an 15 year old that thinks his opinion and style is the only one in the universe that possibly matters.
Says the fuckwit BitZtream.
MS gets too aggressive with updates, and people who wouldn't mind less aggressive updates get annoyed and turn off auto-updating altogether, for better or worse...
I did that with my tablet after an automatic update left me stuck at the login screen until I figured out how to roll back the update.
-uso.
What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
Imagine instead that you have a very limited monthly bandwidth cap. For example, I'm on a connection with a 10GB/mo cap, but bandwidth used at certain hours in the middle of the night don't count against that. You used to be able to set Windows updates to occur at certain hours, so you could set it to download during that free period. With Windows 10? Nope, fuck off. Windows downloads when it wants, fuck you and your bandwidth cap, what Microsoft wants is more important. The only "workaround" is to set your connection to metered, which prevents a lot of things from auto-updating. Of course, that has two problems:
1. You can't update your OS at all that way. Enjoy being insecure!
2. If you have a wired connection you aren't allowed to set the connection as metered. Wifi or cell connections only!
You can sort of work around #2 by changing a registry entry and rebooting (Window: it just works), but then you're still left with problem #1. In fact, problem #1 is even more inconvenient because you can't just flip it to unmetered temporarily; now you have to change the registry setting, reboot, install updates, reboot, change registry settings, reboot. Plus, either way you do it, you still have to sit up and babysit the goddamn thing all night.
Due to this and the "fuck you, here's Windows 10 whether you want it or not" campaign, everything that runs Windows is set to metered and going without updates. Thanks, Microsoft, your know-it-all attitude has made it easier than ever for those systems be compromised.
Vetting the code would be impossible, but removing an annoying feature that people know is there, such as data collection, is mostly straightforward for anyone who can recompile the kernel. So it's something.
Translation: M$ burned me before, but I couldn't just switch to Linux [and so on with stuffing words into my mouth]
You seem quite willing to make assumptions that aren't supported by what was said.
Spoiler; you don't need to have been in that position to have followed the news and known what MS were doing. But that would have ruined a good self-righteous sneer, wouldn't it?
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
... from the Linux Foundation. Microsoft (heart) Linux, and Windows 10 proves it!
TL;DR: Easier to ask forgiveness than permission.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
There's no need for Windows, we already have ReactOS, Linux and BSD and so forth.
Microsoft took an axe and
gave my data plan forty whacks,
when they say what was done they
gave my OS forty one.
Now they are begging for mercy, really!?
At least Lizzie had the excuse of being an orphan.
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I'll believe this apology when I see the one-click rollback tool that never fails. (This is possible under ZFS.)
I guess that means I'll also accept their apology if and when they release Windows 7/ZFS.
I can't even power down my machine without it trying to update for an hour on shutdown failing each time. I'm not even sure at which part it fails in the update because none of this information is being open and modular for the end users, its all so damn barbaric.
When I first got comfortable using windows 10 they did an update and all my system settings were erased as if I just powered the thing on for first time. Every time it goes to update now I cringe especially if its a video driver update because they always give these streamlined old drivers that are utter crap.
At least on win7 you can disable auto restarts, but it's still a stupid annoyance.
This is important information for those poor user who are still stuck with a computer running a Microsoft OS.