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Amazon Patents System To Defend Drones Against Hackers, Jammers and Arrows (geekwire.com)

As Amazon prepares its drone-based delivery service Prime Air for the United States, the company has been looking for ways to keep its drones safe while they're flying to and from their destinations. According to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, the company has patented a plan that lays out countermeasures for potential threats ranging from computer hacking to lightning flashes to bows and arrows. GeekWire reports: The "compromise system" that Amazon's engineers propose relies on an array of sensors to orient the drone based on the sun's position in the sky, if need be. That's in case the drone gets confused by, say, lightning or a muzzle flash. The system also provides for a mesh network, in which drones would check with each other and other data sources -- including satellite signals -- to verify the readings they're following. If there's a discrepancy in the data, the drone would tally up the verdicts from all of the sources available, then go with the majority opinion. The onboard compromise system would be designed to keep the drone on track even if someone tried jamming its communication system. And if the drone became completely disoriented, it would be programmed to land safely and broadcast its location to its handlers. Now, about those arrows: Amazon lays out a scenario in which an attacker shoots an arrow at a drone in the air. "The malicious person may be attempting to cause the UAV to fall to ground, so that that malicious person may steal or destroy the UAV," the application reads. This is what Amazon suggests would happen: "The compromise module detects the presence of the arrow and generates the UAV compromise data indicating that a threat exists that may compromise the UAV. The fail-safe module terminates the navigation to the first computing device, and the fail-safe module directs the UAV towards the ground. In some implementations, the fail-safe module may be configured to direct the UAV to take evasive maneuvers, navigate to a safe landing or parking zone for inspect, and so forth."

122 comments

  1. Maybe it could help in Ukraine by schwit1 · · Score: 0
    http://www.reuters.com/article...

    "Millions of dollars' worth of U.S.-supplied drones that Kiev had hoped would help in its war against Russian-backed separatists have proven ineffective against jamming and hacking, Ukrainian officials say."

    1. Re:Maybe it could help in Ukraine by lucm · · Score: 2

      yeah they take disposable drones designed to fight people who don't have indoor plumbing and who film their propaganda on vhs camcorders, and they try to use that against Russian hackers. That's like hiring convenience store robbers to steal gold from fort knox.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    2. Re:Maybe it could help in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Trump will ship better drones to Russia now to fight 'evil' Ukraine.

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-23/trump-aide-partnered-with-firm-run-by-man-with-alleged-kgb-ties

      "Subu Kota, who pleaded guilty in 1996 to selling the material to an FBI agent posing as a Russian spy, is one of two board directors at the company, Boston-based Brainwave Science. During years of federal court proceedings, prosecutors presented evidence they said showed that between 1985 and 1990 Kota met repeatedly with a KGB agent and was part of a spy ring that made hundreds of thousands of dollars selling U.S. missile defense technology to Russian spies. Kota denied being part of a spy ring, reached a plea agreement in the biotech case and admitted to selling a sketch of a military helicopter to his co-defendant, who was later convicted of being a KGB operative."

      One of those business partners suspected of being a Russian agent is one "Micheal Flynn", Trumps new national security advisor.

    3. Re: Maybe it could help in Ukraine by coteriescavenger · · Score: 1

      So according to this corporate influenced media outlet, Flynn worked at the same company as a guy who was a spy, and therefore might also be a spy. Never mind that he is the expert in security, rose to director of Defense Intelligence, and was trusted for more than three decades since the spying before Obama fired him over policy disagreements.

      This is the same article that accuses him of spreading Internet conspiracies for daring to say *gasp* "Fear of Muslims is rational."

    4. Re: Maybe it could help in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are they systematically killing Jewish people? No?

      Then they are not Nazis.

    5. Re:Maybe it could help in Ukraine by Max_W · · Score: 1

      RQ-11 Raven is a fixed-wing aircraft, not a multirotor. It takes years of hard training to prepare a good pilot for a fixed-wing aircraft.

      For example, more US aircraft were lost in WWII due to crash landing, especially on carriers, than to an enemy fire.

      If one buys any fixed-wing RPAS and starts flying it without a prior experience, he/she will crash it before long. That is what happening most probably.

    6. Re: Maybe it could help in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I love it when people forget the other 11 million people who were not Jewish that were systematically killed by the Nazis.

    7. Re:Maybe it could help in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Flying a fixed-wing RC plane is not difficult if it has a flight stabilization system installed. The full setup for a Raven drone costs almost 300k$, so there will be one. The most difficult part is landing it nicely, but most controllers can do that for you. In many systems you also have a return to home that will bring the UAV back in case you loose orientation or cant see it anymore. It will circle around you or try to land.

      The model of Raven drone used seems to have an analog video downlink and no autonomous navigation. It is thus basically a fancy RC plane. This can easily be jammed, even by someone who has no prior electronic warfare experience.

    8. Re: Maybe it could help in Ukraine by Velox_SwiftFox · · Score: 1

      Are they establishing a national socialist system of industrial-government coordination?

    9. Re: Maybe it could help in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you love that? Are you a Nazi sympathizer hoping history will forget the full extent of their crimes?

    10. Re: Maybe it could help in Ukraine by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      It's almost as good as forgetting that other nations - like Tsarist Russia - did it too.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    11. Re: Maybe it could help in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called sarcasm.

    12. Re: Maybe it could help in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's even more interesting to see people ignoring the communist rule of Stalin that killed ~20M without the country being in a war... It's ~40M if you include the WW2.

      Or how about China that has an estimated count of 30-70M(!!!)..

      Sure these numbers are estimates because there are no official ways to get these numbers...

      If you want references use google, wikipedia or any of the hundreds of books out there that point estimates around these numbers.

      This is why i see left activists on the same level as natzis... They do have quite a few things in common..

    13. Re: Maybe it could help in Ukraine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given how irrational it is to be afraid of a body of 2 billion people because of the most radicalized members of the club, that is a rather conspiratorial view. Especially if you're not over here like Branch Davidians exist! I'm afraid of all Christians!

  2. They won't evade my arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They have shark-mounted lasers attached.

    Bwuhahahahaha

    1. Re:They won't evade my arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have shark-mounted lasers attached.

      Bwuhahahahaha

      The last Austin Powers movie was released 14 years ago. It was amusing. But it's time we all moved on now.

    2. Re: They won't evade my arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not my bag baby

    3. Re: They won't evade my arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Goldmember was not amusing.

    4. Re: They won't evade my arrows by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      It was amusing.

      For those with IQ's beneath a certain threshold, I bet it was almost as funny as Talladega Nights.

    5. Re:They won't evade my arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, you're not in charge of other people's humor or sentimentality.

    6. Re: They won't evade my arrows by sexconker · · Score: 0

      I think Goldmember is the funniest of the three, though International Man of Mystery (the original) is my favorite.
      The Spy Who Shagged Me had none of the campy charm of the original and was mostly a cruder rehash.
      The third was very meta, and you may or may not appreciate that. I for one found the mock intro with tons of cameos (from Tom Cruise to Danny DeVito), the scene with Nathan Lane, everything with Nigel Powers, etc. absolutely hilarious.

    7. Re: They won't evade my arrows by sexconker · · Score: 1

      The Ballad of Ricky Bobby is hilarious. If you can't see past the surface to find the satire, the problem lies with you. It's not as good as Austin Powers, however.

    8. Re: They won't evade my arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do low-level quadrature receiver signals have to do with nights in Talladega?

    9. Re: They won't evade my arrows by aicrules · · Score: 1

      Getting super far off topic, but if the funniest of the three doesn't meet your criteria to be your favorite...what other criteria are you using?

    10. Re: They won't evade my arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And, just as you'd expect on /., a poster denigrating the intelligence of others makes a basic grammar error that a child in elementary school would not have made.

      It's moved past funny into just plain pitiful.

    11. Re: They won't evade my arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't beat The Love Guru - so what is it you can't face ?

    12. Re: They won't evade my arrows by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Charm, originality, satire, etc.

      The first movie was intentionally campy and self aware, and it had a genuine charm to it (along with great music and musical cameos). The second movie lost all of that and doubled down on the crude humor. I enjoy the crude humor, but it can't carry the whole film unless you're 12 years old. I felt the third movie was the funniest, largely in part due to Nigel Powers and the relationship between Austin, Dr. Evil, and Nigel. It got some of the charm back as well.

  3. What About Package Thieves? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Considering that there are people who will steal packages right off a person's doorstep, it's not out of the question for these drones to be attacked just to get their cargo. Amazon's going to have to take that into consideration. Having the drone land itself the moment it's attacked is just going to make the thefts that much easier to carry out.

    1. Re:What About Package Thieves? by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      If somebody is shooting stuff at the drone, they've got a pretty good chance of taking it down if they keep at it. At which point, what's more valuable, the $50 package, or the $5,000 drone?

      This isn't really a problem for the customer, Amazon knows they didn't get their package, and can take the appropriate action (refund, dispatch another drone, dispatch a same-day-delivery driver, dispatch a regular delivery, etc.) But from their perspective, it's probably better to let the thief have the package and be able to recover the drone. Besides, the drone might end up with pretty good video footage of the thief that it can give to the police.

    2. Re:What About Package Thieves? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what's more valuable, the $50 package, or the $5,000 drone?

      The $50 package is more valuable. Thieves who smash the windows out of cars in mall parking lots don't usually bother to steal the car. They're hoping you left some of your recent purchases unattended that they can make off with. A copy of a DVD. A coffee maker. Mass produced consumer goods free for the taking, using, or selling on ebay for cash with no questions asked.

    3. Re: What About Package Thieves? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd shoot at them just on matter of principle

    4. Re:What About Package Thieves? by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      That's the whole point, though. If the drone lands and the thieves take the package, the drone can be recovered. If the drone just lets them keep shooting at it, the drone will crash and be damaged (potentially beyond repair), and the thieves still get the package.

      It's better to lose the $50 package than have the $5000 drone be destroyed.

    5. Re: What About Package Thieves? by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      It sounds like you'd end up with the police doing the same to you. Just on matter of principle.

    6. Re:What About Package Thieves? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Install small C4 load. (just enough to cause injuries, not automatically kill.)
      2. If done is attacked fly it towards the attacker. (in a evasive trajectory. 50km/h minimum.)
      3. Detonate when in close proximity to the attacker

      I can promise you if that would be the behaviour of the drones nobody will try to attack them.

  4. Jail? by dohzer · · Score: 1

    Does the system involve increasing penalties for people that screw with your delivery drones?

    1. Re: Jail? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its already pretty serious. We will see it soon. Robbery, hacking computer systems, assault?, grand theft? They will need to make some examples so the first 'wise guys' that try it and get caught will get fist fucked by the judges. They should be. And I really cant wait to see it.

  5. Drones attack Drones by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    could be a cable show.

  6. Maybe it could help on the Grand Tour by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They seem to loose a drone every intro.

    1. Re:Maybe it could help on the Grand Tour by sexconker · · Score: 2

      Don't worry - there's an infinite supply of drone from the 3 scripted puppets on the show.

      For those wondering: TGT is awful and forced. Yes, TG was scripted to hell, but TGT is scripted and pathetic.

  7. In the immortal words of the internet... by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 3, Insightful

    CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  8. Any defense you can dream up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A hacker can circumvent. We have learned this lesson time and time again.

    1. Re:Any defense you can dream up by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 2

      A hacker can circumvent. We have learned this lesson time and time again.

      No, we are presented with this lesson time and time again...
      It would seem many are incapable of actually learning it.

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
  9. Mass Impersonation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So my drone override transmitter that is already jamming GPS just needs to impersonate more than at least half the drones in range?

    Not a problem. And as a bonus, I can have the fake drones vote to route every real drone nearby into the back of my unmarked truck.

    Any of them object and a quick barrage of arrows with sticky heads and heavy weights or cables should do the trick. Make em' land, nab the drone and the goods. Off you go.

    Should probably patent that.

    "Anti-drone delivery system" for your off-grid shelter.

    After all, you can't really tell the difference between the trojan gubment drone spraying them mind controlling chem trails and an emergency ammo delivery if you can't get the drone before it gets you.

    1. Re:Mass Impersonation by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      So my drone override transmitter that is already jamming GPS just needs to impersonate more than at least half the drones in range?

      Along with all the local wifi hotspots, ssids, repeaters, device MAC addresses, etc. (including their spatial relationships to each other) that Google Maps just went ahead and logged. If I had to set this whole "out of sight flight" thing up that is one database that would get a lot of updates. People have put radio beacons everywhere, it would be a shame not to at least check in and say hello 60 times a day...

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    2. Re:Mass Impersonation by AJWM · · Score: 2

      You might want to read up on how aircraft navigated before GPS (and still do, to some extent). In addition to ATC beacons, RDF (radio direction finding) off of commercial AM broadcasting stations was and is a thing. Triangulating from two isn't that hard for a human, it's a trivial task for a computer. Good luck overriding the signals from a few multi-kilowatt commercial broadcast towers.

      --
      -- Alastair
    3. Re:Mass Impersonation by Shoten · · Score: 1

      So my drone override transmitter that is already jamming GPS just needs to impersonate more than at least half the drones in range?

      Along with all the local wifi hotspots, ssids, repeaters, device MAC addresses, etc. (including their spatial relationships to each other) that Google Maps just went ahead and logged. If I had to set this whole "out of sight flight" thing up that is one database that would get a lot of updates. People have put radio beacons everywhere, it would be a shame not to at least check in and say hello 60 times a day...

      Also, he's confusing "jamming" with "impersonating." His "drone override transmitter" (whatever the fuck that is) can do one, or the other...but not both. And he should note that he'd need to be doing this across a LOT of spectrum...and eventually the FCC is going to find his ass as a result because as soon as GPS stops working, the drone shifts to other methods of navigating until it gets out of range of the jammer.

      --

      For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
    4. Re:Mass Impersonation by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      FCC? I'd be more worried about the U.S. Air Force, you know, the people that maintain the GPS network.
      Those people have some very serious drones, and no one wants a delivery from one of them...
      And, seeing they are part of Cyber Command, they most likely have a pretty good bead on, well, everything.

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
  10. And eagles? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  11. Hacking, jamming arrows? by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

    They are trying to defend against Hawkeye.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  12. Thiefs with arrows by fabioalcor · · Score: 1

    and the fail-safe module directs the UAV towards the ground

    And right into the thief's hands... nice plan.
    Wouldn't that make the thing easier to steal?

    1. Re:Thiefs with arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At up to 300+ ft. and 60+ mph I think actually shooting them out of the air to get the goodies inside was a little unfairly difficult. Not to mention the impact damage on the package on landing/crashing.

      Props to amazon for being sporting and making it a little easier.

    2. Re:Thiefs with arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guess there are a bunch of Robin Hoods running around stealing drones lately. How about worrying about bullets?

    3. Re:Thiefs with arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are clearly not willing to pay for processors fast enough to handle bullets or laser beams. And they assume the range is far enough that arrows are no longer traveling at bullet speeds. Unfortunately, they did not describe an algorithm, so should be rejected. What they have is a trade secret they are not disclosing.

    4. Re:Thiefs with arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can see people doing this out of spite, the same way people aim lasers at planes in hopes of crashing them.

    5. Re:Thiefs with arrows by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      At what ranges do arrows travel at bullet speeds?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    6. Re:Thiefs with arrows by aevan · · Score: 1

      ESA Mars range. Arrows go 300~400, A .22 bullet does 370ish. See? Comparative.

      Except the arrow value is feet per second and the 22 is in meters per second, but shh. I suppose with (in)sufficient gunpowder you could make a slow enough bullet, range might suffer (drastically).

    7. Re:Thiefs with arrows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one who is serious about shooting drones out of the sky is going to be using a bow and arrow or a 22.

  13. Patentee needs to be shot in the head. by queazocotal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is not a novel invention.
    This is trivially obvious from hitting the problem 'I am deploying lots of drones'.
    All of the above solutions are obvious and un-novel and in no way not obvious from prior art.

    1. Re:Patentee needs to be shot in the head. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they read "In The Sky" as "On The Internet".

    2. Re:Patentee needs to be shot in the head. by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 3, Funny

      Obviously you meant "In the Clouds".

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    3. Re:Patentee needs to be shot in the head. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree.
      There should be transmit photograph of hostile vector. Compute hostile vector with inertial sensors when impacted - or otherwise snap a picture of the perp. Move into the sun and corkscrew was invented by the Germans in 1939. If you are hit bad, try to land. not unique either.
      I suspect training some falcons to recognize the drone with a logo carries tasty lizards will also work.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAYVyj6vf3Y

      My bet is a cheap drone programmed for intercept, equipped with some weighted nylon filament designed to tangle in the props of the unwanted drone, then ejects some Mylar drag parachutes, or if snagged good, a helium balloon..

    4. Re: Patentee needs to be shot in the head. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What!? I do R&D work on drones and I wouldn't say these are obvious at all. This isn't another "on a computer" patent. This is an innovative way to expand the use of existing technologies like state filters (kalman). I challenge you to find any prior art.

    5. Re: Patentee needs to be shot in the head. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you read the patent? It only seems to describe what actions the drone would take, not how those actions would be carried out. Any idiot could say "the drone will detect a threat and move out of the way." The hand waving behind this patent is similar to a software patent - no meat behind *how* it is done. Here is a great line from the patent: "The imager 210(2) may detect objects, which may allow the UAV 102 to identify the objects." Maybe if they designed some very sensitive "imager" with a wide FOV that weighs nothing and uses very little power along with a processor to handle all of the data, then they would have an invention.

      I think I'm going to file a patent on a device that creates power through nuclear fusion. I'll just copy/paste the Wikipedia article on the topic since that level of detail is apparently enough for the idiots at the Patent office. Then, when someone finally figures out how to do it I'll be rich!

    6. Re: Patentee needs to be shot in the head. by queazocotal · · Score: 1

      What the other poster said.
      It all flows naturally from 'I have a lot of flying drones, and don't want to lose them'.

      You want you drones to react sensibly to loss of any input. This is not a novel idea remotely - fault tolerant systems have been around forever.
      This means alternate means of control and navigation and orientation.
      Mesh networking, for example, is a truly obvious idea, if you have lost communication with your base and there is another nearby drone.
      As is switching to other localisation systems, and prioritising between them, and using ranging.

      Yes, it is tricky to implement.
      However, the patent also fails utterly at the requirements for a patent.
      It fails to explain nearly all of these ideas in a way that would cut any meaningful time off implementing them from scratch, given a sheet of paper and the problem statement.

    7. Re: Patentee needs to be shot in the head. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you are failing to make a valid point.

      Their specific IMPLEMENTATION is patentable. The idea of doing it is not.
      Feel free to come up with a different way to defend drones against arrows and patent it then sell that patent to Amazon.

    8. Re:Patentee needs to be shot in the head. by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      This is not a novel invention. This is trivially obvious from hitting the problem 'I am deploying lots of drones'. All of the above solutions are obvious and un-novel and in no way not obvious from prior art.

      Prove it, then. If it's not novel, you should be able to find someone doing it before November 2014. Otherwise, by definition, it's novel.
      And if it's not obvious, then you should be able to find all of the elements of the claim in one or more pieces of prior art from before November 2014. I'll help. Here's Claim 1:

      1. A method of operating an uncrewed autonomous vehicle (“UAV”) comprising:
      establishing, at the UAV via a communication interface, communication with a mesh network comprising a plurality of other UAVs;
      generating first location data of the UAV using a first navigation system onboard the UAV, wherein the first location data indicates a first location of the UAV;
      receiving external data from one or more of the plurality of other UAVs in the mesh network;
      generating second location data using a second navigation system, wherein the second location data indicates a second location of the UAV;
      determining that the first location data differs from the second location data by a threshold value;
      determining operation of the UAV is compromised based at least in part on the external data;
      transitioning to a fail-safe mode wherein the UAV is configured to disregard one or more of commands, the first location data, or the second location data; and
      transmitting alert data indicative of: the compromise of the UAV; and last available location data of the UAV.

      Now, establishing mesh networks and receiving data over mesh networks has been done since at least 2007, according to Wiki.
      Here's a post from April 2014 on redundancy in airplane autopilot location guidance, so there's generating first location data and second location data, but it doesn't mention the threshold comparison, and states that the transitioning is manual with only two computers. So that doesn't help.

      It's very easy to say that something is trivial in hindsight, but that's like saying that someone "looks" guilty. It's a lot more difficult to prove it with evidence, and that's what's required, legally.

    9. Re: Patentee needs to be shot in the head. by Shoten · · Score: 2

      Did you read the patent? It only seems to describe what actions the drone would take, not how those actions would be carried out. Any idiot could say "the drone will detect a threat and move out of the way." The hand waving behind this patent is similar to a software patent - no meat behind *how* it is done. Here is a great line from the patent: "The imager 210(2) may detect objects, which may allow the UAV 102 to identify the objects." Maybe if they designed some very sensitive "imager" with a wide FOV that weighs nothing and uses very little power along with a processor to handle all of the data, then they would have an invention.

      I think I'm going to file a patent on a device that creates power through nuclear fusion. I'll just copy/paste the Wikipedia article on the topic since that level of detail is apparently enough for the idiots at the Patent office. Then, when someone finally figures out how to do it I'll be rich!

      Actually, it did describe how they would be carried out, in detail. I mean, it doesn't explain how a camera works, but at some point you have to assume that a person reading a patent application has some understanding of, well, you know...consumer-grade electronics.

      It describes what it would use as points of reference, and in what way. It even goes into details as to the frequency bandwidth needed for some of those uses. It explains the circumstances under which certain sets of activities would take place and has flow charts...FLOW CHARTS...to illustrate the components needed, the actions taken, and the order in which it all would happen. I mean, what do you want...PCB plans and parts lists so that you can build your own? And I've never seen anything quite like this approach...it's brilliant.

      --

      For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
    10. Re: Patentee needs to be shot in the head. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We obviously have very different ideas as to what "in detail" means. What you see in the patent is the type of thing an art major or a group working in marketing could come up with.

      I guess you have no clue as to the hardware, software, and math required to take the high level concepts described in this patent and turn them into something real. This patent is a perfect example as to why it should not be possible to patent a process.

    11. Re:Patentee needs to be shot in the head. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prove it, then. If it's not novel, you should be able to find someone doing it before November 2014. Otherwise, by definition, it's novel.
      And if it's not obvious, then you should be able to find all of the elements of the claim in one or more pieces of prior art from before November 2014. I'll help. Here's Claim 1:

      You're confusing the concepts "novel" and "not obvious".

      A reasonable person would consider something to be "not obvious" if an experienced professional couldn't come up with it in a few hours.

      Obviously, members of the legal professional are in a position of ethical conflict of interest with respect to determining the meaning of words and phrases such as "reasonable" and "not obvious". More patents means more business for legal professional, hence the conflict of interest.

      It's just like having unnecessarily complex laws, or too many laws, or most encumbrances on property, or too many contracts, or overly complex contracts (all also problems one finds in the US legal system).

      The right to ethical practice of law - protected under the 9th Amendment - means that a reasonable person's definition of such words of concepts trumps the views of the legal profession. Anything else would make the legal system unnecessarily hard to understand, creating an artificial demand for the services of lawyers.

      OP is correct: these are obvious options. The lawyers that helped write this patent - if they were ethical - would have pointed that out. Unfortunately, in US patent law - and probably other systems - there are massive numbers of patents that violate the "not obvious" test, which tells you something about the attitude of US lawyers towards ethical conduct.

      Associations of US lawyers give large amounts of money to the politicians who select judges, in the form of "campaign contributions". This should tell you something about how judges will react in situations involving ethics issues, which accounts in large part for why we're in this mess. No surprises here, of course, for anybody with a functioning brain that has studied US legal history.

      The patent office has it's own ethical conflicts of interest, since the money from patents is laundered into the federal budget, freeing up funds to pay the salaries and benefits of patent examiners.

      Studies done by economists show that the average return for innovation in the USA - for the person actually doing the innovation - is something on the order of 2% over the lifetime of the innovation. That's actually less than the average musician makes - and seemingly not all that different from how things were during the early industrial revolution when hardly any patents existed. The failure to be ethical on the part of the US legal profession, and the US patent office, is a serious problem that has significant economic consequences.

  14. Muzzle flash? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    I'd think a muzzle flash would be trivially disorienting compared to the subsequent impact by a high speed projectile...

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Muzzle flash? by cdsparrow · · Score: 2

      It didn't specify muzzle blast from the ground. Maybe they plan on arming these things and have noticed shooting causes flight controller confusion.

  15. Drone with machine guns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd love to have a drone with machine guns to take out other drones. Maybe an armed RC plane.

  16. Hah! by mark_reh · · Score: 2

    Katniss Everdeen can shoot fighter jets out of the sky with arrows. What makes you think you puny drones will be able to do any better?

  17. It's safety measures are to land? Nice. by Nyder · · Score: 1

    So it's safety measures are to land, which means then thieves no longer need to check doors for packages, they can just threaten the UAV's with arrows. Granted some idiots shooting arrows in the sky isn't a comforting thought...

    --
    Be seeing you...
  18. "and so forth." by msauve · · Score: 2

    One can get an "and so forth" patent?

    I need an attorney, to patent a simple invention which will "improve life, the universe and everything" using innovation, science, technology, "and so forth." It will be fundamental to any possible future patent. I'll be rich!

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  19. Re:It's safety measures are to land? Nice. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Granted some idiots shooting arrows in the sky isn't a comforting thought...

    I used to be a drone, but then I took an arrow to the knee.

  20. Arrows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about GUNS?

    1. Re:Arrows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Arrows, guns... how unimaginative.
      Slingshots loaded with ball bearings, Estes rockets, Potato Cannons, Railguns... how about a Trebuchet loaded with pumpkins? Or...
      http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-j1o-LTKvfHg/UFqJa7cQVqI/AAAAAAAAF3s/POTtvuthfV0/s1600/MAD328-329.jpg

  21. Jam the Distress Call? by Noble713 · · Score: 1

    And if the drone became completely disoriented, it would be programmed to land safely and broadcast its location to its handlers.

    Get (or observe) a few drone deliveries and do some SIGINT collection with an RTL-SDR to ID the freq range and strength of the drone's transmissions.
    Once you do have a method to force a landing (which doesn't seem easy, BTW), broadcast with a cheap-ish SDR (probably a HackRF or the new LimeSDR) and a power amplifier to jam the drone's distress call.
    Steal the drone and its cargo. Disable the drone's comms and sell on the black market.
    What sort of stuff are they delivering with drones anyway? Gaming laptops? Gaming consoles? Either are pretty high value targets and easy to flip on the black/grey market, I would think...

  22. Going to form my own anti-hero identify by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    I'm going to dress in green tights and a feather cap, get out my bow and arrow and call myself "Robbin' Goods".

    To those on Slashdot aroused by the thought, you I will deem my Band of Fairy Men. You can stay inside and, uh, "support" me from afar k thanks.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  23. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amazon is worried about somebody using a BOW AND ARROW to shoot at their drones? Wake up dipshits, they're going to use shotguns and maybe rifles. Nobody is going to use a damn arrow.

    1. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wake up yourself, clueless. Anybody fires a shotgun or rifle near my house and I'll be outside looking for the idiot to kick his ass, hard. Amazon will be doing a lot more deliveries in urban areas compared to rural.

      At least a bow (or crossbow) and arrow are silent. If they do use an arrow, I hope they use a sticky head and not a pointy one. At least the sticky head won't kill someone when it falls back to earth, even if it does give them a headache or heart attack.

      .

    2. Re: Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I take it you're aware that there are suppressors for shotguns? I also assume that you are aware of the changes a suppressor makes to the sound of a gunshot. A suppressed gunshot in a city would be overlooked by many (because people in general are oblivious to everything around them). Those who noticed it would dismiss it as some weird city noise, because it didn't sound like a gunshot. I don't know where you would fall though, because you have demonstrated your incalculable stupidity by proclaiming your willingness to go, "kick the ass," of someone who's already shown that they have a loaded gun and are quite willing to fire it in anger.

    3. Re: Really? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      There is a pretty huge difference between firing at a drone and firing at a human. Willingness to do the former in no manner, way, shape, or form implies willingness to do the latter.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  24. With a UAV instead of On The Internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Replace UAV with any other computer system or sensor (including software systems/agents) and all you've got is good general reliability techniques and stuff I learned in my first robotics class and first distributed systems class in college. Everything should be obvious to someone in the art.

    We really need patent reform.

  25. Shocked by quenda · · Score: 2

    I'm shocked, shocked , to find that Amazon is filing frivolous patents.

  26. Where'd You Get That Bird? Innernet. by sexconker · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If I start seeing drones filling the sky near my property, I'll take up falconry and train them to take the things the fuck out.

    Fuck your shit.

  27. Re:So they're looking for DOD contracts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What has been described above is a simple way for someone with a bunch of arrows to force the drone to land, after which the package it carries can be stolen. It won't have the same security as the drone, after all!

  28. So more attack vectors. Nice!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keep It Simple Stupid!!!

    The more features they add to protect against things that may not even happen - the more vulnerable the system will be.

  29. Patenting the inevitable. by geekmux · · Score: 1

    Gotta love technical patents like this. A literal blueprint for hackers. I predict this will be utterly worthless about 17 seconds after it's implemented.

    Gee, if we only had real punishments for those found guilty of attacking drones instead of wasting millions trying to patent the inevitable.

    Actual deterrents against criminal behavior. What a novel fucking idea...

  30. Re:It's safety measures are to land? Nice. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh Skyrim!

    The scary thought is that a drone has knees at all . . . what?

  31. Promoting Species Extinction for Profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My employer has been experimenting with delivery by drone and the unexpected lesson learned is the major obstacle to success is bird attack.

    Bird populations are dropping fast world-wide. Whatever technology Amazon puts in place, you can be certain it will kill birds and hasten the rush to extinction.

  32. Drone "defense" system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did they call it "Skynet"?

  33. Diversity radio and a sun tracker by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Diversity receivers aren't hard to come by, you can buy them off-the-shelf. You can get just a diversity hub into which all your receivers plug, and they can be of disparate types.

    Sun trackers are harder. The easiest way to do it is probably with a camera with a filter on, by burning CPU cycles. But you could do it with just a whole bunch of light intensity sensors at different angles. But but, that's what a camera is, and maybe they have cycles to burn.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  34. Sensor overload by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2

    I wonder what happens if someone setup set of stone lights and flashes them at once, telling the drone "Did you see all the muzzle flashes? Hey, yo have incoming bullets from all directions!" yes, i realize a muzzle flash looks different from a strobe but will the programming and optical systems be sophisticated enough to tell the difference? Even if you don't actually cause it to land, I an see people disorienting them just for the yucks, and Amazon pushing to apply laws against attacks against a/c to drones or new legislation.

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    1. Re:Sensor overload by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Amazon doesn't need to push for any laws. Drones are considered aircraft. Attacking them in flight or otherwise interfering with operations is a big-time federal felony no-no. Combine that with doing it in an attempt to steal the payload and/or the aircraft, and there's plenty for both local LEOs and the feds to go after you on.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    2. Re:Sensor overload by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Amazon doesn't need to push for any laws. Drones are considered aircraft. Attacking them in flight or otherwise interfering with operations is a big-time federal felony no-no. Combine that with doing it in an attempt to steal the payload and/or the aircraft, and there's plenty for both local LEOs and the feds to go after you on.

      IANAL, but from what I read there is a lot of gray area and uncertainty over how drones are treated with respect to laws covering interfering with or attacking a/c. I agree the existing laws should be use din such situations but it appears they have not been to date.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  35. Drone Safe House by trueguru · · Score: 0

    I would volunteer as a drone safe house in emergency. This gets me $10.00 off of my Prime Membership. Since one of us is always home, we could watch the drone until the Drone Tenders from Amazon arrive.

    --
    for crying out loud
  36. Re:It's safety measures are to land? Nice. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But what if they had curved swords? Curved! Swords!

  37. Rocket Propelled Entaglement Nets! by jerryjnormandin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I built a proof of concept and took down my drone that was flying at 150' in my yard. It was fun. I'm pretty that a delivery drone can not out manuver a rocket propelled net dispersion system.

    1. Re:Rocket Propelled Entaglement Nets! by Shoten · · Score: 1

      I built a proof of concept and took down my drone that was flying at 150' in my yard. It was fun.

      I'm pretty that a delivery drone can not out manuver a rocket propelled net dispersion system.

      I don't know...it doesn't have to move much to accomplish it. How wide was your net, and did you hit a moving drone or one that was stationary above you? What was your angle to the drone...because if it's passing by a hundred feet or so to either side of you, it only needs to shift course away from your position a tiny bit to cause a miss. The drone doesn't need to suddenly be 30 feet from where it was at the moment you fire your net...I'm guessing it's got a solid 1-2 seconds...at least...to alter course enough to avoid. Of course, if not...then the fact that your device has almost no other uses is interesting. I find it hard to believe that it'd be difficult to outlaw "rocket-propelled net dispersion systems" as soon as they became the primary means of committing grand larceny of delivery drones.

      Trust me...you're not smarter than Amazon's combined force of engineers, lawyers, and lobbyists.

      --

      For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
    2. Re:Rocket Propelled Entaglement Nets! by Kevoco · · Score: 1

      The very nature of how the drone stays aloft requires that it pull air down through itself.
      Any means of dropping segments (say, 12 to 24 inches) of monofilament fishing line into the intakes could cause the propellers to bind.

    3. Re:Rocket Propelled Entaglement Nets! by FrankHaynes · · Score: 1

      Causing a rapid decrease in air density directly under the drone should cause it to drop precipitously for a few seconds. The "how" is left as an exercise to the reader.

      --
      slashdot: A failed experiment.
  38. Hey smug hackers by Merk42 · · Score: 1

    Why don't you just mug the UPS/FedEx/etc delivery person?
    They are already on the ground and you only need to threaten them with a weapon, not actually use it.

  39. Nets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What about nets, like fishing nets?

  40. Drones seem to be the big thing in weponry now by Deliveranc3 · · Score: 1

    Maybe thinking about this is a bad thing.

    Might be ok if someone open sourced it so it wouldn't lead to a power imbalance but killing people with drones is pretty problematic so even then it's not a good thing.

    Think a bit Slashdot, nerds aren't for evil.

    Unless they work for Microsoft.

    Or the pay is really good.

    Or it's just too cool.

    1. Re:Drones seem to be the big thing in weponry now by Shoten · · Score: 1

      Maybe thinking about this is a bad thing.

        Might be ok if someone open sourced it so it wouldn't lead to a power imbalance but killing people with drones is pretty problematic so even then it's not a good thing.

        Think a bit Slashdot, nerds aren't for evil.

        Unless they work for Microsoft.

        Or the pay is really good.

        Or it's just too cool.

      So...did you even READ any of this? This is a patent application by Amazon, for their delivery drones. They aren't killing people, they're delivering consumer products. The threats that Amazon is counteracting are actually already accounted for in military drones; it's called SAASM, with regard to jamming/spoofing, and also called "flying really high" with regard to the whole bow and arrow threat. Nobody is looking at this as a way of killing people, and if you're worried about the possibility that drones will be used to kill people...well guess what, dude? Too late.

      --

      For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
  41. Shoot ALL of them down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Commercial and consumer drones are a nuisance and they should all be destroyed.

  42. Re:Where'd You Get That Bird? Innernet. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'd give you an internet tough guy point but I'm all out after the holidays.

  43. Hm. Bad writing? by Shoten · · Score: 2

    When I first read the OP, it didn't make sense. A drone being "confused" by a muzzle flash? What kind of idiot thinks that's how a drone navigates...or that a muzzle flash would be more confusing than light reflecting off a window or a pond? So I dug in...and the actual patent application is what you should really read because it's very cool. The article about the patent application itself is very poorly-written; either the author didn't really read the patent app or didn't understand it.

    The underlying problem is this: people will screw with drones that are delivering valuable items. They will shoot at them with objects ranging from thrown stones to bullets from firearms. They will use signal jammers, spoofing of navigational or control systems and maybe even malware that compromises a device that's used to provide guidance. They've put together a pretty clever approach to each of these problems.

    For kinetic threats, a system that would detect the attack would trigger one of a few possible reactions. One reaction is the emission of foam to cushion the drone from the direction of the threat. This would temporarily degrade its flight performance, but only on an as-needed basis. Another would be avoidance, if possible.

    For (using the USAF definition) cyber threats, they get really clever. GPS is a nightmare against a moderately-capable attacker; spoofing and jamming are pretty much impossible to defend against. The current gold standard is a device called a SAASM...but there's a catch. It's only available to military users of GPS, and no commercial equivalent exists. It depends upon cryptographic keys to use the privileged GPS functions, so even if you could build your own you could not make use of it. And this is the other interesting/tricky threat.

    So, you're humming along and minding your own business using GPS to navigate when...aha! Someone jams you. Or they spoof GPS and try to get you to crash into the ground so that they can take your goodies. You will notice one of these happening when you suddenly lose GPS signal...and the other when your speed and course suddenly vary wildly without you having done anything to cause such.

    Amazon has put together a really smart mutli-layered approach to this kind of threat. I won't dig into the details, but some of the goodies include mesh networking, using a variety of alternate methods as points of reference (including even the signal jammer itself, if jamming is going on) and a broad range of different frequencies so that all-encompassing jamming or spoofing becomes a serious, serious pain in the ass for the attacker to accomplish.

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
  44. Enter the arms race.... by WolfgangVL · · Score: 2

    Just wait till UPS finishes its cutting edge stealth fighter/delivery drones (CODENAME: STOLEN) then we will see who rules the skies. There's also the Fed-Ex experimental air-to-air "Logistical Orbital Spearhead Targeter", (LOST) . USPS is gonna have to back to the drawing board though, looks like the surface-to-air "Malicious Operator Radio Equipped Ballista System" (MOREBS) is going to need a redesign.

    So far though, its the underdog, 7/11, who rules the skies with their own system, the "Neighborhood Orbiting Grip and Ship" (NOGAS) The hot Coffee payload and secondary microwaved burrito launcher seem deterrent enough....... for now.

    --
    You are being ripped off every second of every day, so that advertisers can help rip you off even more tomorrow.
  45. Typical bad software patent by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

    "If someone shoots an arrow at the drone, try to avoid it. Or maybe land. Or maybe run away." It's nothing but a vague statement of the problem and some goals you might want to aim for. If they actually gave a detailed algorithm for evading arrows, that might be patentable. But this is just nonsense. They're saying, "We should have exclusive ownership of the concept of trying to avoid arrows because we were the first to file a patent application pointing out it could be a problem."

    --
    "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
  46. Horeshoes, hand grenades, etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now, about those arrows: Amazon lays out a scenario in which an attacker shoots an arrow at a drone in the air. "The malicious person may be attempting to cause the UAV to fall to ground, so that that malicious person may steal or destroy the UAV," the application reads.

    Then:

    The fail-safe module terminates the navigation to the first computing device, and the fail-safe module directs the UAV towards the ground.

    So if someone tries to down the UAV with an arrow, the UAV lands?

  47. Who wants this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who really wants a world in which the skies are filled with delivery drones? It all seems ridiculous to me.

  48. Re:Hm. Bad writing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My only WTF question is:
    If they've invented a way to defend against all these things, and they think it's so great, why patent it? Why make it so no one else can defend their drones using the same methods? Why do we allow this? What possible benefit from having a patent could there be? It is shown time and again that the only thing they do is provide false scarcity so some jackass can maintain a monopoly for no reason.

  49. Programmed to land safely? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The OP says that if the drone becomes completely disoriented, it would be programmed to land safely. That sounds good, but I hope that means more than just making an attempt to auto-land, I.E. slowly descend until it touches down. This is because there is nothing to say that the drone could not become disoriented over a busy highway, a crowd of people, or other location where a drone would pose a hazard. A drone that descends in front of a tractor trailer on a busy highway while attempting to "land safely" would be a huge safety hazard. If the drone is disoriented, that means it does not know where it is. This makes it quite difficult for it to "land safely" autonomously.

  50. Take down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So if I wanted to knock a drone out of the air, I don't even need to hit it? I can simply throw something towards it and it will voluntarily land itself?

  51. Morpheus: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We don't know who struck first, us or them. But we do know it was us that scorched the sky. At the time, they were dependent on solar power. It was believed they would be unable to survive without an energy source as abundant as the sun.

  52. Re:Hm. Bad writing? by Gussington · · Score: 1

    They've put together a pretty clever approach to each of these problems.

    For kinetic threats, a system that would detect the attack would trigger one of a few possible reactions. One reaction is the emission of foam to cushion the drone from the direction of the threat. This would temporarily degrade its flight performance, but only on an as-needed basis. Another would be avoidance, if possible.

    The obvious threat will be capture ie a projectile net to catch the drone and its payload, or if you see one landing at your neighbours, you pop next door and take their stuff and/or smash the drone for shits and giggles.
    Other risks are injuries to unsuspecting pets/children, or accidents (the crash rate will be above zero),
    How will these be handled?