HP Made a Laptop Slightly Thicker To Add 3 Hours of Battery Life (theverge.com)

When a technology company like Apple releases a new product, chances are it's going to be thinner than its predecessor -- even if may be slightly worse off for it. HP is taking a different approach with its new 15.6-inch Spectre x360 laptop, which was recently announced at CES. The machine is slightly thicker than its predecessor, and HP claims it features three hours of additional battery life. The Verge reports: The difference between the new x360 and the old x360, in terms of thickness, is minimal, from 15.9mm to 17.8mm. (For reference, the 2015 MacBook Pro was 18mm thick.) It's an increase of 1.9mm for the Spectre, but HP says it's now including a battery that's 23 percent larger in exchange. At the same time, the laptop is also getting narrower, with its body shrinking from 14.8 inches wide to 14 inches wide. Unfortunately, the claimed three hours of additional battery life aren't meant to make this laptop into some long-lasting wonder -- they're really just meant to normalize its battery life. HP will only be selling the 15.6-inch x360 with a 4K display this year, and that requires a lot more power. By increasing the laptop's battery capacity, HP is able to push the machine's battery life from the 9.5 hours it estimated for the 4K version of its 2016 model to about 12 hours and 45 minutes for this model. So it is adding three hours of battery life, but in doing so, it's merely matching the battery life of last year's 1080p model. The x360 is also being updated to include Intel's Kaby Lake processors. It includes options that max out at an i7 processor, 16GB of RAM, a 1TB SSD, and Nvidia GeForce 940MX graphics. It's supposed to be released February 26th, with pricing starting at $1,278 for an entry-level model.

Comments

Courage

[Anonymous Coward]

NOw that is COurage! HOpefully Other COmpanies will FOllow this example!

Re: Courage

[Anonymous Coward]

Your idiotic capital usage aside, I agree. This is what courage looks like.

I will sell this as my laptop recommendation of choice to my business clients to reward up for this, even though I'm not a fan of HP in general.

Re: Courage

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what courage looks like.

Umm, did you actually read the summary?

"So it is adding three hours of battery life, but in doing so, it's merely matching the battery life of last year's 1080p model."

So in actuality, they're making the laptop thicker just to keep the battery life the same. How brave!

Re: Courage

[tripleevenfall]

At least they are giving people what they actually want, which is function.

Personally I think that these manufacturers like the make things thinner and lighter and to put rounded edges and smooth surfaces all over them because it creates more devices that need replacement because they are frail and squirt out of your hand like a wet bar of soap.

Re: Courage

[Oswald McWeany]

My thought too.

Finally a company that listen to what the people have been saying. It's been a long time since anyone said "this phone is too thick" or "this laptop is too thick".

Re: Courage

[InfiniteLoopCounter]

This is what courage looks like.

Umm, did you actually read the summary?

"So it is adding three hours of battery life, but in doing so, it's merely matching the battery life of last year's 1080p model."

If you were truly brave you'd use it with the screen turned off to get that extra 3 hours battery life.

Re: Courage

[flopsquad]

This. To parent post and to HP.

I've yet to meet a single person that needs, or even wants, a laptop/tablet/phone that is 0.5mm thinner. But everybody needs longer battery life and more durable devices. And many of us need features (looking at you, headphone jack) that are sacrificed in the dubious pursuit of thinness above all else.

Re: Courage

[Rei]

I wish there was a better way to quantify the durability of phones. Something akin to crash test ratings. You can get water resistance and dust resistance for phones... add scientifically measured standardized scratch, bend and shatter resistance tests.

And yes, while I think that it's unfortunate that they're doing this just to feed a hungry 4k screen (I'd much rather just not have the 4k screen), and also that they're shrinking the width ("Meh"), kudos to them for bucking the "must get thinner every time!" trend.

Your headphone example is not only a great example of sacrifice in the pursuit of useless thinness, but it's a great example of the sacrifice of durability, too. I've had many USB ports and USB plugs break over the years, but never in my life had headphone jacks or plugs break. I've had the headphones and their cords break, but never the plug or jack. Because it's a thick solid piece of metal plugging into another thick solid piece of metal. That sort of thing is what I want in my ports, I don't give a rat's arse that it adds half a dozen grams to the device's weight.

And likewise, for that incentive of ditching it - pushing people towards going wireless with their earbuds - for Thor's sake, the last thing I want to have to deal with is another piece of household electronics to charge. You've got my support when you have an long-range wireless charging standard in place that everyone has agreed that they're going to move to. Not a second before then.

And so long as you're wired, it should be kept analog, because that gives you the cheapest earbuds and removes any DRM/lockout/incompatibility/etc fears from users.

Re:Courage

[ranton]

From the article:

Unfortunately, the claimed three hours of additional battery life aren’t meant to make this laptop into some long-lasting wonder — they’re really just meant to normalize its battery life. [...] It is adding three hours of battery life, but in doing so, it’s merely matching the battery life of last year’s 1080p model.

This isn't courage, this is just a good PR spin on them having to increase the size of their laptop to accommodate a 4k resolution. I'm glad they chose this route instead of cutting battery life but this isn't some kind of grand gesture.

Re:Courage

[hcs_$reboot]

"courage", "you use it wrong"... didn't we get enough of that?

Re: Courage

[AmiMoJo]

Let's see if it sells well. Unfortunately I have a feeling it won't, because even though if you ask people "would you prefer it to be to 0.5mm thinner or have more battery life?" they will tell you that they want the battery life, in practice when they are in the shop with an array of laptops in front of them they will pick the thin and shiny one.

The other thing that makes a bigger battery is hard sell is that all manufacturers lie about battery life. It's become post-truth, everyone knows that battery life claims are all lies so there isn't any point being truthful any more. Thus if you just stick a "16 hours battery life" sticker on the box, even if it is true people will just assume it is a lie.

Re: Courage

[Type44Q]

At least they are giving people what they actually want

They're bringing back the 1/4" headphone jack??

Re: Courage

[Hognoxious]

I would say that there should be some sort of standard for measuring it like there is for vehicle fuel consumption, but they'd game it anyway.

Re: Courage

[AmiMoJo]

It would be very difficult to control... Build a Faraday cage so that only your wifi network is available with consistent power and interference. For browsing use a local server with consistent response times, fixed suite of test pages. Temperature controlled room. Even then you couldn't stop the manufacturer just turning down the wifi power level on the review unit, or adding a defeat device that underclocks the CPU when it notices it is running the test suite.

Re: Courage

[thegarbz]

Personally I think that these manufacturers like the make things thinner and lighter and to put rounded edges and smooth surfaces all over them because it creates more devices that need replacement because they are frail and squirt out of your hand like a wet bar of soap.

Personally I think they make them like that because they sell well and it's what people want. Generally people salivate over it. Laptops are not small or light enough yet IMO.

But really what is needed is two devices. Some thick big work horses for you guys, and some nice thin light more toylike devices for the likes of me and the common man who doesn't spend 10 hours a day coding on it.

Re: Courage

[david_thornley]

For business purposes, the question is not whether a thinner laptop that sacrifices battery life is better, but whether it will sell better. Durability is hard to quantify, and some people treat their equipment a lot rougher than others. (I try to be careful, but I'm clumsy.)

If thinner sells, then thinner wins. At least for MS Windows and Linux laptops, there's more companies making them, and a greater incentive to sell laptops to a niche market.

Re: Courage

[Rei]

How do you break a headphone jack or plug? I doubt they'd break if you hit them with a hammer. Okay, if you put the jack side in a vise, then hit the other with a heavy hammer blow, you'd probably bend the pin. But it'd probably still fit in and out bent and still work.

Re: Courage

[Rei]

I guess I'd put it this way: I like my internal hardware Japanese but my connectors and casing Soviet. ;) Low tech and heavy, but able to survive 30 years bouncing around in the bed of a pickup truck in Kazakhstan.

Re: Courage

[Qzukk]

you'd use it with the screen turned off

This is how I use my laptop as a massively oversized mp3 player on long flights.

Re: Courage

[BronsCon]

If the tests included "process X amount of data" and "download X amount of data" and were evaluating not only battery life, but also performance, they'd have to choose which one to cheat. Since (judging by 2016 MacBook Pro sales) many people don't give much if a shit about battery life, there would be incentive to sacrifice battery life to improve performance in that test; until you realize that some people do care about battery life, which removes any incentive to cheat at all.

Re: Courage

[ColdWetDog]

I've done it (although I still prefer the old, simple tech). A 3.5 mm plug is roughly 20 mm long (not counting the wire, of course). You can get a nice bit of torque by pulling on the end of the plug. Enough to trash an iPhone plug. Been there, done that.

No tech is perfect. I'd rather have the plug than fiddle with Bluetooth vagaries. "Connected". Yeah, sure, to the wrong device you whacky gizmo. Annoying dropouts. Batteries. Batteries. Batteries.

I finally found a decent Bluetooth headphone - Sennheiser Momentum M2. About $300 worth. But I'm not cashing in all of my wired devices. I'm looking at YOU Apple. And I friggen hate dongles.

Re: Courage

[ColdWetDog]

Unfortunately, your fantasy iPhone would look something like this. Hard to pocket. Even with cargo pants.

Re: Courage

[Rei]

Dongles are bad enough with consumer tech. They're worse for backpacking. You know how the key is to have everything light and small? I had a stove that, while heavier than a lot of simple canister stoves, was able to get more fuel out per canister and thus save you weight overall. At least it could, until they discontinued its canisters. But to make up for it they offered a dongle so that you could connect other canisters! A dongle which was heavier than the stove itself. Argh....

Re: Courage

[mjwx]

Your idiotic capital usage aside, I agree. This is what courage looks like.

I will sell this as my laptop recommendation of choice to my business clients to reward up for this, even though I'm not a fan of HP in general.

The problem is it's HP and they've been consistently crap quality builds since I've worked in IT... Probably longer than that.

That being said, I do agree with this move. Making laptops thinner means taking space away from things, that is usually either the battery or cooling systems. Given that laptops are rarely over-engineered these days cooling that works fine out of the box often fails when it's got a bit of dust in it and under load. Fortunately an overheating laptop just shuts itself down rather than frying itself, but it's still annoying.

We may be at the turning point of the thinness wars with manufacturers realising that it's pointless and doesn't win sales. Personally weight it more important in a portable device, having some extra space for airflow doesn't cost you there.

Re: Courage

[Ol Olsoc]

How do you break a headphone jack or plug?

Plugs, not so easy, (see below though) but the jacks? Not so hard. They are weakend a little bit every time they get plugged in. Typical is that the springiness slowly goes away, or the contact eventually breaks at the base. Mostly just losing contact on the plug, though. Then the users jiggle it a bit, maybe get it to work, often making the problm worse. The mini 1/8" plug and jack are a scaling down of the old 1/4" plug and jack, which was a little meh as well. The smaller you make them, the weaker they get. The micro ones are almost useless.

I doubt they'd break if you hit them with a hammer. Okay, if you put the jack side in a vise, then hit the other with a heavy hammer blow, you'd probably bend the pin. But it'd probably still fit in and out bent and still work.

To test your conjecture, I took a good grade 1/8th inch plug, placed it on my workbench, and gave it a whack with an 8 oz claw hammer. After a bit of time removing the metal outer case due to it's no longer having a circular shape, the results were internal connections were bent and weakend but not broken, Flange at top of the pin was crushed, and the pin itself ws compressed, which turned it roughly ovoid, and made it impossible to fit into a jack.

Re: Courage

[Ol Olsoc]

Unfortunately, your fantasy iPhone would look something like this. Hard to pocket. Even with cargo pants.

Oh man - I love the old military radios. First I laughed, now I'm studying the radio.

Re: Courage

[Ol Olsoc]

I guess I'd put it this way: I like my internal hardware Japanese but my connectors and casing Soviet. ;)

Not a bad outlook, Funny how with the Russian stuff they can either be Fugly, like that awesome old radio ColdWetDog posted, or strikingly beautiful, like http://www.military-today.com/...

Can't help but take a swipe at the fruit company

[Anonymous Coward]

I love that they need to throw in a swipe at Apple, despite the story having nothing at all to do with Apple, and despite even the redesigned HP laptop being thinner than the supposedly thin-happy Apple product.

Thank you!

[Bender Unit 22]

may it be the beginning of a new trend on phones also.

Razer+

[JoeMerchant]

Back in the days of the Motorola Razer (ultra-thin/light phone, cutting edge....), they made another phone called the 810-something, we had two of them in the family. Basically, it was the Razer with a real battery - lasted over a week on a charge. I would so-love to carry a Nexus 5x that's 3mm thicker with the extra volume filled with high efficiency LiPo.

Re:Razer+

[ausekilis]

I'm not sure why anyone would want a RAZR... I had one, it survived maybe 6 months before it started failing at everything. Responsiveness went down the toilet, lots of dropped calls, those calls that did make it were low volume and/or filled with white noise.

Personally, I have a short list of requirements:
1) Lasts longer than a day on one charge (preferably two or three).
2) Responsive. If I touch a button or the screen, it shouldn't take 3 seconds before it does something.
3) Not riddled with crapware that A) is the same as some built-in software, B) serves tons of ads, C) auto-starts or D) slows the phone down to a crawl 4) I can browse the internet, send texts and make phone calls easily (this is a phone, after all)

Is it really that hard?

Re:Razer+

[Pascoea]

I'm not sure why anyone would want a RAZR... I had one

I had two. Loved them both. One fell out of my pocket while on a motor cycle. I went back and picked it up, put the battery back in and carried on. It survived, but a little worse for wear. Used that one until I switched jobs and got another one. That one experienced similar problems that you did, dropped calls, not as responsive as it once was. But that was only after I sent it through the washing machine. I'd say it's impressive that it worked at all after being laundered. I used the second one up until the day I got my first "smart phone"

As far as your "needs" list. I'd say you are spot on.

Re:Razer+

[painandgreed]

I'm not sure why anyone would want a RAZR...

It had good service in my neighborhood, was clam shell so I wouldn't pocket dial people, was slim so it would fit in my front pocket where my PDA was, had a replacable battery (which was never used), and could (technically) connect to the internet (although with the poor UI lync style browser, it was practically useless even for google searches). Never saw any of your issues. Mine worked for years until I bought the new iPhone because it would actually allow me to functionally browse the internet with a real browser and it could store my photography in a displayable manner.

Re:Razer+

[fbobraga]

indestructible

I bet it lives no longer than a month on my sister hands!

Re:Razer+

[antdude]

Was that a smartphone? If not, then don't smartphones use way more power than dumb phones?

Re:Razer+

[JoeMerchant]

They called them "feature phones" - basically too dumb to run a full web browser, but could do photos, videos, e-mails, etc. They mostly lost out because they were too fragmented for a robust "apps" market to develop for them. That, and the fact that everybody could afford smart phones, so why sell them something cheaper?

Re:Razer+

[antdude]

Ah, like Motorola Razr flip phone with its included sliding physical keyboard, crappy flashless camera, etc.

Re:Razer+

[AcquaCow]

I had a flip star-tac with the extended battery, that thing would last almost 3 weeks on a charge if you didn't talk much... was the most amazing stand-by, emergency phone ever.

Re:Razer+

[Blaskowicz]

Too bad about Firefox OS. It was really unremarkable, nothing flashy like super duper 3D games, multimedia cloud shit, voice command, and high tech fun appy apps.
But wait, it checks all your requirements. Out of the box, it's like if you've first booted Windows 3.1. Nothing autostarts or is unwanted at all. In fact on first run, it doesn't want you to sign up to anything and when it presents you with e.g. initial choice of location settings, it defaults to off. Then, if you wanted Internet browsing, texts and calls, that's the things it didn't fail at.

It's a dead system. Could have made it to 5" phones with 1GB RAM on Firefox 2.1 or better (low end 5"), but those never came out.

Ubuntu phones might another bet to get a phone like that, but they're undead (phones retired, awaiting new phones with no roadmap)
Else perhaps some clean, recent, supported Android (community ROM or something) where you delete everything google or don't install it in the first place. Install Firefox for Android + filtering extensions.

tl;dr it's the software. With phones it's like we're back to Windows 98 with multiple Internet Explorer toolbar, Bonzi Buddy, Real Player and friends installed. Also a minimum of 24 to 40 icons polluting the desktop and fifteen piece of nagware in the system tray.

Most people don't care this much about thinness

[MikeRT]

Apple's marketing and fanbois paint it as "would you like a brick or this elegant and smooth, ultra light beautiful product?" Phrased like that, sure who wouldn't?

Ask the same typical consumer or business buyer: "would you like a device that, in order to be insignificantly thinner, requires open heart surgery to replace the battery and if your RAM or hard drive go bad, you're SOL?"

Then suddenly, the average person says not just no, but "oh hell, no" because this isn't a $700 PC laptop, but a ~$2000 Apple laptop.

Put a designer and a MBA together and you get a team that does not understand that while the MacBook Air is perfectly acceptable as a throw away appliance, that is because it can be had for less than $1k. A normal person who spends $2500 to $3000 for a seriously performant machine in order to be the backbone of their work doesn't want an appliance. They want a machine that can be quickly and cost effectively repaired.

Re:Most people don't care this much about thinness

[CastrTroy]

Sounds like the people in charge of the MyDemocracy.ca took a few pointers from the Apple marketing handbook

Re:Most people don't care this much about thinness

[hcs_$reboot]

We care about thinness, of course. But not beyond some level. Of course, 4 centimeters thick is too much. But between 2 cm and 2.4, who really cares? We think it's too thin if the device may bend. If making it a bit thinner loses 1 hour battery life. Actually what's probably more of interest is the weight.

Re:Most people don't care this much about thinness

[hcs_$reboot]

There used to be a bunch of people attached to the "difference" ; ergonomics, look and feel, battery life, weight, OS, reliability. This had a price. And that was until 2 years ago. Now that Jobs ideas have completely dried up, a man at Apple didn't understand (yet) that the dream is over, and the company is on the verge of decline, like it was in the end of the 80s. No more fanbois, only people who need a bit more time to switch to something else, when that something is way better (and cheaper) than Apple's offer.

Re:Most people don't care this much about thinness

[MikeRT]

Do tell the location of this magical laptop where nothing is integrated and everything is replaceable/upgradeable.

Nice bait and switch there. No one said anything about it being as replaceable/upgradeable as a typical desktop PC. However, my 2008 MacBook Pro had a replaceable optical drive, hard drive, memory and battery. I bought it with 2GB of RAM and upgraded. I replaced the hard drive twice with faster models as they became available. I had replaced the battery four times.

Re:Most people don't care this much about thinness

[Bongo]

the dream is over, and the company is on the verge of decline, like it was in the end of the 80s.

Computers are becoming ever more ubiquitous, and Apple has laptops, desktops, tablets, watches, and a music service, cloud services, some presence in the living room, a bit of AI, and a long history of OS development, plus has a track record of approaching new form factors with a humanist perspective on design, and a presence in many shopping malls, with stores often very busy, and lots of money, for now.

Yes, everyone else can do a part or parts of that better, like, maybe I'd rather have a Lenovo P50, if I was an architect, or you must have a phablet, because your company is based on Google Docs, but for a lot of people, buying into a system is more like a marriage, you get what you can and stick with it, knowing it won't be the best at everything, because change is a pain and perfection a mirage.

Apple would have to screw up a lot of things at this point, to enter real decline. Doesn't mean you have to go anywhere near them with a bargepole, but saying they or their dream is over, is a bit silly. There isn't a heck of a lot new you can do with a laptop, and someone has to decide the balance of features, and they won't suit everyone.

Maybe in 10 years, when AI has gotten somewhere, we can ask if Apple is over.

Re:Most people don't care this much about thinness

[Anonymous Coward]

I just replaced the battery on a 2011 MBP and replaced the DVD drive with an extra SATA bay for a second SSD. That's to augment the SSD that is already in it, which was already a replacement from the original because it has more capacity. I upgraded the RAM from a mere 4GB to 16GB (the max). It was made a lot easier and cheaper by not having everything glued or soldered in, and because storage and RAM-wise it's all pretty standard stuff. I paid a premium for the machine when I bought it, but it was worth it. It's sure a heck of a lot cheaper to do this kind of upgrade than buying a new one. That makes the higher initial cost pay off down the line.

When I look at the new MBP, everything is more difficult to upgrade (if it is even possible), and the initial cost is even higher. I don't see upgrading to a new MBP any time soon, because they've undermined half the reason to pay more initially: maintainability.

Re:Most people don't care this much about thinness

[david_thornley]

And you're making a classic marketing mistake here. You're asking the customer what the customer wants without regard to what's going to sell. You're also phrasing the question to get the answer you want, which makes it useless.

It's very simple. If thin sells to lots of people (not necessarily including you or me), there will be a lot of thin. If thin doesn't sell, there won't be.

Re:Most people don't care this much about thinness

[BronsCon]

I upgraded the RAM from a mere 4GB to 16GB (the max).

Not according to Apple; all of their 2011 laptop models max out at 8GB. Of course, since the RAM isn't soldered to the board and the chipset actually supports 16GB, those of us with any sense are running that configuration.

The 2013 and newer Retina MacBook Pros should be able to support 32GB, but Apple doesn't sell them that way. With the RAM soldered, well, those machines are missing out on a fair bit of their potential.

anything under 4cm is good enough!

[dehachel12]

I don't get the obsession with thinner and thinner.

Re:anything under 4cm is good enough!

[Carrot007]

While I agree that the current trend for thin over battery life id ridiculous I would rather not go back to 4 cm laptops. I must have one of two somewhere in the loft.

3.0cm is fine by me though. I do wonder how thic the old mono laptop brick is though. Still it ran monkey island fine!

However an extended battery that increases the height a bit would be fine and give people the choice.

Re:anything under 4cm is good enough!

[Dunbal]

Eventually your laptop will double as a kitchen knife. At least I think that's what the goal is.

Re:anything under 4cm is good enough!

[hcs_$reboot]

Well, if you have a laptop 5 millimeter thick, 12 hours battery life, robust and light, wouldn't you be happier?

Re:anything under 4cm is good enough!

[serviscope_minor]

Well, if you have a laptop 5 millimeter thick, 12 hours battery life, robust and light, wouldn't you be happier?

Very marginally, but I'd prioritise the weight, battery and robustness over the thickness. I mean sure if I could have all 4, I guess... (does it hurt upgradability?) but given the choice between any 3, thickness always loses provided it's under some unfashionably large maxium.

I loved my eee 900, for example which is about 3.5cm thick at its thickest. What gave it portability was the weight. I can't remember a time it was awkward to carry because my bag was so stuffed full that I couldn't fit it in easily because of its thickness.

Oh yeah, it also has a bunch of USB ports, a full size SD card reader, full size ethernet, 3.5mm jacks, full sized video port and upgradable SSD and RAM (I upgraded both) and upgradable wifi (I never did that). Very convenient.

Re:anything under 4cm is good enough!

[hcs_$reboot]

Oh yeah, it also has a bunch of USB ports, a full size SD card reader, full size ethernet, 3.5mm jacks, full sized video port and upgradable SSD and RAM (I upgraded both) and upgradable wifi (I never did that). Very convenient.

Not nice to remind this to the new macbook pro owners ...

Re:anything under 4cm is good enough!

[serviscope_minor]

Not nice to remind this to the new macbook pro owners ...

I love carrying a bag of dongles around, especially when the dongle bag is thicker than the vaunted thinness of the laptop!

It's getting to bee like Apple Pokemon, gotta catch 'em all.

https://www.extremetech.com/wp...

Re:anything under 4cm is good enough!

[Wulf2k]

> Well, if you have a laptop 5 millimeter thick ... wouldn't you be happier?

No. I'd be incredibly unhappy with a 5 mm laptop because I wouldn't be able to take it anywhere without accidentally destroying it.

Sanity

[spiritplumber]

2017 is looking good.

Re:Sanity

[The-Ixian]

It's January 4th....

Talk to me on December 31st...

Re:Sanity

[Rei]

No kidding. This year at New Years I wrote "2016" in big letters and threw it into a 2-story-high bonfire just so I could send it to hell personally. Next year I hope 2017 gets a proper burial with honors ;)

Re:Sanity

[fbobraga]

if the human race still exists up to that point in time...

What do the users really want in a laptop?

[QuietLagoon]

A fashion statement, or functionality. It appears that HP is going in the way of increased functionality, meanwhile Apple continues on its trend towardsw making fashion statements.

Re:Metric / Imperial

[careysub]

Multiples of 3 are just so much more useful in everyday life than multiples of 10. I used the base 12 pica/point system in printing for many years, and always admired how trivially easy it was to calculate layout proportions. The human attention is drawn strongly to things in threes: three panels, three points in an argument, three parts to a story, and many others.

More than just the magic of 3. Since 12 has the three smallest (non-trivial) integer divisors, and four of the five smallest, it is simple to do many proportional (ratio) calculations and measurements. 10 only has two (non-trivial) integer divisors.

This extended to adding 5 and 6 as divisors gives the 360 degree division of the circle, invented by the Sumerians and adopted universally around the Old World (along with their division of the day into 12, then 24 hours, for similar reasons). Utility is proven by use.

Sick of thin is in

[p51d007]

Don't know about anyone else, but, for my usage, I don't care how thick something is. I don't want to be a "wallwart" always plugged into an outlet, just to use something. My smartphone has a 4,000mAH battery, my laptop has an "ugly" bulge on the bottom to support the larger battery. It's a tool, not a fashion accessory for me. My phone & laptop are my life, during the workday. It's a free country, you want a stylish fashionable phone/laptop, fine, get one, but I'll stick with the thicker ones that have a larger battery. (and most times are more dependable/rugged than their thinner counterparts).

Re:Sick of thin is in

[hcs_$reboot]

No need of extra thinness, but "an ugly bulge on the bottom", not sure I want that either :-(

Re:Sick of thin is in

[Ol Olsoc]

It's a free country, you want a stylish fashionable phone/laptop, fine, get one, but I'll stick with the thicker ones that have a larger battery. (and most times are more dependable/rugged than their thinner counterparts).

Your statement is a little at odds with your title. Why do you get pissed at choices? I'll take a bit thicker of a laptop for extra battery life myself, but some people want thin. Some people want tough, some people want thisorthat. Some of us go batshit crazy over the old school headphone jack, and appear to find it the most important part of their computing experience.

As long as I can find the right laptop for me, it's all good. And if you find one that meets your needs - I'm happy for you. But I'm not sick of any of them, just happy they found what they need.

Re:Sick of thin is in

[argStyopa]

"It's a tool, not a fashion accessory"
Then you, sir, are not /welcome/ to the Apple ecosystem.

Re:Sick of thin is in

[thegarbz]

Don't know about anyone else, but, for my usage, I don't care how thick something is.

I do. I care deeply how large and heavy my laptop is. Different use cases though. If you're coding all day and need a big reliable work horse then I can imagine your needs are different to mine. Me I care more about being able to take my laptop everywhere for a brief opening working and packing away again. I have no need for 10h battery life and the thinner and lighter the better.

However what manufacturers really need to realise is there are still pro use cases out there. No one bats an eye when the Apple Air is released in its super slimness, but chasing the same design with a Macbook Pro is just utter stupidity.

As much as I hope laptops get thinner I also hope companies start making some more ... serious machines.

Re:Sick of thin is in

[ColdWetDog]

The big problem with the 2016 MacBook Pro is that it is really a MacBook Air Pro.

If they would just come out with a real MacBook Pro, all six of us would be a lot happier.

In a related news...

[ctrl-alt-canc]

...HP announced a new laptop that is 5.56 meters tall, with a battery life of a whole year! As a side benefit, the new laptop is the narrowest ever built, since its width has been shrank to zero.

2017 - Return Of Common Sense?

[OneoFamillion]

So this HP is like the Porsche 911 R of the laptop world? Something that isn't just about numbers, but actual utility? I, for one, welcome the year 2017 as the Year Of Common Sense. I can certainly think of some things that could use it... The global economy, immigration policies, and this Internet of Things nonsense for example.

Re:Never buying HP

[hcs_$reboot]

So what do you recommend? Which laptop were you able to use for more than 10 mins?

Re:Metric / Imperial

[hcs_$reboot]

Actually if you want something a lot of people use, pick "pinyin".

Re:Can't help but take a swipe at the fruit compan

[ranton]

First off, any opportunity to chip at the Apple PR machine should not be wasted. And second, I think it is fair to say Apple started or at least mainstreamed the "thinner instead of more functionality" trend so mentioning them here seem appropriate.

Most people don't service their own tech products

[zerofoo]

BMW figured this out a long time ago when they removed the oil dipsticks from their engines:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB...

I'm an IT guy - I'm perfectly capable of servicing any of the Macs in my possession - just like I am perfectly capable of changing my own oil.

The truth is, I like many, simply do not do these things. It's easier and more convenient to simply let the manufacturer do it. Sure, I was once a poor college kid and replaced my own hard drives and engine oil - but at that time I was neither a Mac owner or a German car owner.

Re:Metric / Imperial

[Rei]

I dunno. I live in Iceland and we're a very aggressively metric country, to the point that windspeeds aren't even measured in km/h, but meters per second. In fact, off the top of my head I can only think of one thing at all where imperial measurements are used.

And that thing is screen sizes, in inches. And I understand it's that way in other countries too - for example, I've been told that in Japan, the only two things they use inches for are pizza and screen sizes.

Hmm, now that I think about it, we use inches for pizza also. Hmm, let me do a search to see if I can came up with some others. Let's see... I guess tires too, yeah... Oh, and Subway sells their sandwiches in inches, but they're a US company and all of that stuff is standardized the world over... And I guess if you want to go that far, when working on cars that were made in the US, you have to use imperial-measure tools...

Next question: Resolution

[bazorg]

OK more battery life is good. Now, if we are using a 15" screen, what benefit is there to using 4K resolution and use up more of that battery capacity? Can't we find a middle ground between 1368x768 and some overkill and expensive screen resolution?

Re: Metric / Imperial

[Hognoxious]

Heck, in some countries there are even 11 inches on the foot.

Name them.

Re:Never buying HP

[Ol Olsoc]

Bought an HP Envy. Wouldn't boot straight out of the box, just got a blank screen. Took it back to the store and exchanged it the same day. Next one booted and froze. They brought a third one which seemed to boot fine. Got it home. After running more than 10 mins it overheats and freezes/shuts down. Fuck that, and fuck HP.

I got a new Envy last week, and it has worked flawlessly since purchase. Been powered up a minimum 8 hours a day, and only issue is it's a little heavy - but what do I expect from a metal laptop case reminiscent of the old PowerMac G5's Aircraft Al. But its big and beautiful. If I have to work in Windows world, might as well have pretty toys to do it with. Can hardly wait to install Linux on it.

Re:Never buying HP

[hcs_$reboot]

Please keep us updated, on how Linux does perform on an Envy.

Re:Never buying HP

[Ol Olsoc]

So what do you recommend? Which laptop were you able to use for more than 10 mins?

I think AC might be full of shit. My new Envy is a pretty sweet bit of kit, and it stretches credulity that multiple laptops would be duds.

Re:Never buying HP

[Ol Olsoc]

Please keep us updated, on how Linux does perform on an Envy.

I'm hoping not to have to jump through too many hoops to get it to dual boot. HP is Linux friendly so I'm hopeful. I'll probably install Ubuntu Mate, which is Windows-ish.

Re:Never buying HP

[hcs_$reboot]

Or just install VirtualBox, works great usually, and no need to reboot to switch..

Apple has done the same

[SmaryJerry]

The iPhone 7 and 7 plus are both very slightly thicker than the 6s and 6s plus.

Re:Metric / Imperial

[AmiMoJo]

The best option is to use metric multiples of 12 if you need easy division. Then you can calculate and convert easily because you are still in base 10, but also get your simple integer divisions.

Re: Metric / Imperial

[ConceptJunkie]

Every country has 11 inches in their feet. They also have a 12th inch.

Thinner is...

[garyoa1]

I dunno why thin is in. They do it because they can? Show off their "brilliant" technology? To what end? Seems to me it just makes them more prone to self destruction.

What a letdown

[Verdatum]

This summary got me all excited for the idea of a company being brave enough to decide that thickness is not as critical as Apple marketing tries to push, only to reveal that it is a design compromise needed to support a completely useless feature. It's fantastic to support 4k displays on a laptop, but a 4k integrated monitor on anything but a mammoth laptop serves no benefit. All things equal, the only way to visibly see the difference on a 15'' laptop screen is to crank up the brightness and jam your eye so close to the screen that you're now awkwardly hunched over, and can only see a tiny portion of the screen. Because the typical use-case of laptops is in using the integrated keyboard, you are bound by the ergonomic fact that the screen is going to be a comfortable arm-length from the eyes. Save 4k resolution for things like VR headsets and large external monitors. And the only time you're going to be using either, you're also gonna have an outlet, so it doesn't matter. You'd only want battery powered 4k if someone actually managed to get wireless display standardized and working well, or if VR takes off in such a huge way that we're all strapping computers to our back and walking around in augmented reality. Neither of these things are going to happen in the next few years, so there's zero point in buying a laptop that's supposedly future-proofed in that manner.

Re:What a letdown

[BronsCon]

I can tell you from experience, switching between a 15" PC laptop with a 4k screen and a 15" MacBook Pro with at 2880x1800 screen, the difference is quite noticeable. 1080p to 4k would be even more so. Of course, not everyone has 20/5 vision, so that could be your problem.

Re:Never buying HP

[david_thornley]

It seems plausible to me, assuming he kept getting his laptops out of the same batch. If a truck with a load of laptops got into a collision, for example, it could damage most or all of the laptops. It seems very unlikely that three randomly selected laptops would fail like that.

GoodDirection

[sdinfoserv]

I purchased a Surface 4 a couple months ago with the fastest processor available. I get maybe 1-1/2 hours of use off the battery. Crappy battery life if my only complaint. Other than that, it's fantastic... I would gladly sacrifice some thickness for additional battery life. $2200 for a mobile device that’s not mobile 2 hours is just pointless.

Re:cool

[colinrichardday]

Carly Fiorina is an SJW liberal? I thought she was a Republican.

Sinner!

[OrangeTide]

You've sacrificed Design in favor of functionality?!

More proof that HP wants to bring back the era of beige boxes.

Linux versus Battery life

[OrangeTide]

I totally get why people run Linux on servers, but you have to be a pretty diehard fan to run Linux on a laptop.

Re: Most people don't care this much about thinnes

[BronsCon]

Tack on another 4" to the screen size and another $1000 to the price and I know at least a dozen people, in addition to my wife and myself, who will be in line waiting for the Apple store to open the day it comes out.

Apple's biggest fuck up this decade was making the MacBook Pro thinner; though, making the Mac Pro a trash can is a very close second. Pro doesn't need to be beautiful, it needs to be functional, and Apple had a been maintaining a great balance between the two until 2012.

Re: Metric / Imperial

[bored_engineer]

Name them.

een
twee
drie
vier
vijf
zes
zeven
acht
negen
tien
elf

Happy now?

The Amsterdam foot (voet) consisted of 11 Amsterdam inches (duim). It was more complex than just 11 inches to the foot, though: Dutch feet varied from 10 to 13 inches depending on local laws. The variability in units of measure varied this way throughout Europe.

OH. MY. GAWD.

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

2 extra millimeters thick, how will I ever be able to carry such a monstrous device?

I say "Bravo!" to HP for doing this. Longer battery life means waaaaaay more to me than shaving a couple of millimeters off the thickness.

And I don't care if it's heavier, it's not like I'd go on marathon hikes while I'd be using it. However much more it weighs, I'm sure my desk or table will be up to the task.

Hell, increase the weight by a pound, I don't give a shit. If I'm going to hike the Appalachian Trail with a laptop then I'll look for a lighter one. Until then I'll just suffer holding it through that arduous 1-minute elevator ride.

Re: Most people don't care this much about thinnes

[ColdWetDog]

A number of Apple fanboys (myself included) have decided to stay on the roller coaster a bit longer by purchasing 2015 MacBook Pros. The ones with MagSafe connectors and real ports (). Might be my last Apple purchase ever, but who knows, maybe they will see the light (or the weight, I suppose).

Re:Never buying HP

[ColdWetDog]

No, AC's are always having that problem. Computers never work, the OS blue screens 20 times a day, their wife, GF and dog leave them. The CIA / NSA and the Mossad are all after them.

Sucks to be them, I suppose.

Re:Can't help but take a swipe at the fruit compan

[Cederic]

Bent phones and reduced battery life is better? Ok.

Re:Never buying HP

[Ol Olsoc]

No, AC's are always having that problem. Computers never work, the OS blue screens 20 times a day, their wife, GF and dog leave them. The CIA / NSA and the Mossad are all after them.

Sucks to be them, I suppose.

Bad luck Brian personified!

But I just have to repeat myself, I am annoyingly fussy about the quality of my computers. Once I get outside of the cheap Chromebook I take to breakfast, I like competent and pretty. And the Envy meets both just fine.

Re:Never buying HP

[ChunderDownunder]

I bought an HP once.

The power brick had to be replaced in the first month. But that was back in 2009.

7 1/2 years later, it's still running fine.

Re:cool

[ChunderDownunder]

SJW = Steve Jobs Worshipper.

I thought that they worked at Apple.

Re:Metric / Imperial

[Blaskowicz]

Bicycle tires are funny over here. Moutain bikes and bikes associated to these (and BMX) use inches, such as 20", 24", 26". The rest use millimeters.
Loudspeakers, (the raw part not the entire woody box), they seem to be either in inches or millimeters, go figure. Big boomers may be in inches.
About everything else is metric.

So where is the 32GB model?

[Shirley Marquez]

Apple has been criticized for the lack of a 32GB option for the new MacBook Pro. HP should not be immune. Dell does offer a configuration of the XPS 15 (Skylake; the XPS 15 has not yet been refreshed for Kaby Lake) with 32GB, but the XPS 13 (including the Kaby Lake version and the new 2-in-1) tops out at 16GB.