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Google-Funded Project Envisions Nation's Librarians Teaching Kids to Code (ala.org)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the overdue dept.

"We're excited to double down on the findings of Ready to Code 1," says one Google program manager, "by equipping librarians with the knowledge and skills to cultivate computational thinking and coding skills in our youth." theodp writes: Citing the need to fill "500,000 current job openings in the field of computer science," the American Library Association argues in a new whitepaper that "all 115,000 of the nation's school and public libraries are crucial community partners to guarantee youth have skills essential to future employment and civic participation"... The ALA's Google-funded "Libraries Ready to Code" project has entered Phase II, which aims to "equip Master's in Library Science students to deliver coding programs through public and school libraries and foster computational thinking skills among the nation's youth."

"Libraries play a vital role in our communities, and Google is proud to build on our partnership with ALA," added Hai Hong, who leads US outreach on Google's K-12 Education team... "Given the ubiquity of technology and the half-a-million unfilled tech jobs in the country, we need to ensure that all youth understand the world around them and have the opportunity to develop the essential skills that employers -- and our nation's economy -- require."

28 of 197 comments (clear)

  1. Better to spend on education than salaries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Corporate America sees a problem: not enough computer programmers, and a solution: teach people programming.

    If salaries went up, along with job security, many self-starting adults would seek out the education they need to make that money. But we can't have THAT!

    But without that, it doesn't matter how much education you do...once people learn the reality of the industry they will jump right out of it.

    Them's the facts.

    1. Re:Better to spend on education than salaries by Nephandus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There ARE enough. They just don't want to hire, pay, or train (as in standard practices or specific house standards for full pro projects, NOT base coding abilities/knowledge we actually DO know) us. Instead, they hire false credentialed jargon spouters (who don't even own their own computers prior, much less are remotely computer geeks ever) from body shops called consultancies (an inserted, ironically costly layer to setup a racket), pay them less (paying through the consultancy has little to no rules, paying "consultants" junior level for intermediate or beyond level work is never prevented, captive labor doesn't want to get thrown back for rocking the boat), and half-assedly train them (Hell, have a local, with years of experience, train their own inexperienced replacements for his own higher level position in a few WEEKS) because they think it's a bargain to get shitty code on the cheap and don't comprehend how net costs actual work over time in the software industry, much less care about quality or security.

      --
      "A soft answer turneth away wrath. Once wrath is looking the other way, shoot it in the head."
    2. Re:Better to spend on education than salaries by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You are equating 'computer programmers' with 'people that can program'. A huge number of professions would benefit from people being able to script up something to reduce their work load.

      There are companies still doing books in Excel by hand (not relying on any of Excel's built in functions). I helped someone in the mid 2000s that didn't know you could Sort or Uniquify a list in Excel.

      It's not about making computer programmers it's about graduating engineers that can program, accountants that can program, MBAs that can program.

      A long time ago not everyone learned to type. There were typists that were employed to type in what someone else came up with. Along the way someone got the idea that you could teach people to type and that typists would no longer be needed outside of some specific jobs. The same thing is happening right now with coding.

      Source: I'm a Mechanical Engineer that mashes the keyboard to get my job done.

    3. Re:Better to spend on education than salaries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have at this point in my life worked on about 10 large projects. Thousands of man hours poured into them. All did decently and made the companies millions. Well over 300k people were using it at one point. Not one line of code is still in use. The only things that are still being used is by me because I do not need to re-write them at this time. But they probably will be at some point.

      Code is eferial. It is transient. It leaves like a ghost never to be seen again. I can see why companies want to minimize the cost of that.

      They will find however that just because everyone knows how to program does not mean everyone can do it. I am a very experienced at it and even I still have trouble with it. It takes time and solitude to do correctly. Instead we are trying to force creative art style bullpit design into it. So you get in the zone and are yanked out quickly because the dude 2 tables over has decided to have a conversation with 3 other people. Most people can do 1 thing at a time pretty well. Give them 2 things and they will do 2 things very badly. One thing that struck me when I first started doing this was how quiet most programming environments were. Its not like that anymore.

      Companies also think if we just put them all together and add in rock stars good code magically happens. Half the time you have to spend a year just to get them to commit on whatever stupid idea they are thinking of. I can not read your mind and come up with 'good things' when you can not even describe what you want. Its little wonder they do not even know what to pay someone. As they are not even sure what the job should be. They think they want to 'improve' things but sometimes adding in a overcomplex bit of software can make things even worse. So they want a bargain on top of it all. I can understand it. Do not like it much but understand it.

    4. Re:Better to spend on education than salaries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The "500,000 job openings" is a lie. A complete, absolute lie whose sole purpose is to serve as an excuse to push for hiring more foreign workers.

      If there is a shortage of workers, then why are you firing hundreds of your employees and replacing them with the same number of foreign workers? At lower wages, of course. Because that's the only shortage that actually exists -- a shortage of people willing to be treated like shit and be paid the lowest possible wages.

    5. Re: Better to spend on education than salaries by AuMatar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      No there aren't. Not unless you're counting the retired by choice. I just went through a job search. I had more companies begging to interview me than I could reasonably handle. Salaries for experienced devs are hitting the 200K/yr range because there aren't enough of them.

      What there are is way too many intro level people who take a bootcap or make a website or two and call themselves programmers, making it hard to find quality to fill low level jobs. But there aren't anywhere near enough seniors on the market at the moment.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    6. Re:Better to spend on education than salaries by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      AC thats the issue. The "teach people programming" only works if a lack of education, scholarships, access to higher education exists.
      People who are smart have the option to enter law, medicine, engineering or an other area and know of the conditions and wages in such professions.
      Lots of people can do math, science but might enter medicine or law given their ability to study and access to loans or scholarships.
      If the "unfilled tech jobs" exist that is an issue of wage. Start paying more and people will be swayed away from law or engineering or other subjects.
      Pouring cash into communities to show average people what a computer is will not help. Robots and gui code will not remove the lack of interest in computers.
      Smart people may like the law, medicine, the arts, languages, engineering. Thats what they want and thats the subjects they know will give then a good lifestyle and wage.
      In past decades access to broadband, computers, quality low cost or free software might have been an issue. Its not an education issue. Pay better wages, offer better hours and computers as a topic might be flooded with more students.
      Until then offering funding to people who will look at a computer, try some gui code and go back to subjects they are really interested in is not the best funding solution.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    7. Re: Better to spend on education than salaries by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 2
      Same here. Voluntarily retired, but get job offers all the time. Friend/former coworker quit a $125/hr job because he was "bored of it". And that was living in Iowa.

      Iowa.

      With a yearly cost of living of like $17. Anyway, he retired to California and is not yet 50 I don't think. Programing moisture vaporators (or real-time engine controllers, same difference) is not quite the same as throwing up a web page.

    8. Re:Better to spend on education than salaries by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Tech's problem is that it doesn't have strong unions and advocacy groups. Medicine does, law does, and as a result conditions are much better.

      Having more people trained in programming will help, if only by removing some of the drudge work from the more talented ones so they can make better use of their skills. What we need to ensure is that they are unionized, otherwise they will be exploited and discarded just like the rest of us.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re: Better to spend on education than salaries by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why would anyone spend time and money to train for a low pay bullshit job? If you were a business, you wouldn't invest in projects that are low-income / no profit shit..

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    10. Re: Better to spend on education than salaries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Studying law is even sillier than tech. Most people that graduate in law are under employed or doing a job that doesn't require a law degree. Medicine is okay, but the profession artificially limits the supply to keep wages up but the industry simply turns to ARNPs and decimated the nursing profession with medical techs to make up for it.

    11. Re:Better to spend on education than salaries by ZenShadow · · Score: 2

      Code is transient, in part, because it's badly written in the first place. If code was written to higher standards, less of it would have to be replaced over time.

      Not true of all things, but definitely true of many.

      --
      -- sigs cause cancer.
    12. Re:Better to spend on education than salaries by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      And the UNDERemployment rate?

      Zero. Under-employment means people working part time while desiring full time employment. I have never heard of a "part time" software development job.

  2. Who teaches the teachers? by sconeu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Who will teach the librarians to code well enough so that they can pass on that knowledge to the kids?

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    1. Re:Who teaches the teachers? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why do the librarians need to know how to code? Librarians have never been a jack of all trades but were instead a knowledgeable source as to where to find the information. They didn't have every book memorized but could assist people in finding the book so they could learn on their own.

      My local library has a 3D printer and while the librarians can answer basic questions they (in a much politer way) tell you to RTFM. "Equipping librarians" can be nothing more than introducing them to the fact that Code Academy exists.

    2. Re:Who teaches the teachers? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I wish my local librarian understood this. I wanted to donate $200 in Arduino stuff to the Library and she kept on bothering me about how would I come and train the kids on it. Could I have classes etc.

      I was the 14 year old kid that lived at the library (Only place with Internet in my county). You don't need to teach them anything other than point them in the direction of reading material.

  3. Wrong skill set by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ..."by equipping librarians with the knowledge and skills to cultivate computational thinking and coding skills in our youth."...

    Do librarians really have the appropriate innate skill set, and desires, to teach kids how to code? This sounds like Google was looking around for someone to do the teaching, and someone at the meeting said, "librarians!," to which everyone agreed (in typical meeting style).

    .
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  4. 500,000 job openings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm in my 50s, with 30 years of programming experience in many languages and fields. Can't get hired because of age and I guess I want too much money. This is reality in this field.

    So I suppose Google is really saying let's get kids to code so we can hire them at 20 and pay them peanuts. Then let them go when it's too expensive and do it all over again.

    1. Re:500,000 job openings by Oligonicella · · Score: 2

      Just because a listing is for a COBOL/FORTRAN/etc job doesn't mean the company will hire an older, experienced applicant. I've been subjected to that myself.

  5. Vocational training for young kids is a waste. by hey! · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who knows what jobs will be available in twenty years, between AI and offshoring? Coding doesn't look like a sure thing at all.

    If you are going to focus on a skill, focus on ones that serve in that kind of future environment: being able to pick up on human context and nuance; to decode, no just the literal level of communication, but implicit levels of communication. Because even if AI and foreigners take our coding jobs, somebody is going to have to lay out specifications, and that take imagination and subtlety.

    And you know what would be really, really good for developing those kinds of skills? Reading and discussing books.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  6. Re:FUCK YOU by ruir · · Score: 2

    Doctors are too expensive. Lets teach all the kids...
    Lets teach all the kids plumbing...
    Hey, politicians are too expensive...lets teach all the kids politics...

  7. Because everyone needs to be able to code... by cshotton · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is silly. It's like saying the nation's librarians need to teach kids to perform appendectomies, or how to fly a jet airplane, or how to speak Swahili. There's no way that the majority of librarians are qualified to teach programming. If they were, they probably would be doing something related to writing software and not related to library science. And learning to code is no different than learning to engineer a bridge or learning to perform brain surgery. It requires aptitude in the student and competency in the teacher and years of hard work. Trivializing "coding" as if it were something like "typing" or "burger flipping" shows how out of touch the people proposing this actually are. Shame on them for wasting our time and money.

    --

    Shut up and eat your vegetables!!!
  8. If we can be serious for a moment... by snarkasaurus · · Score: 2

    The truth of the matter is that the public school teachers of the USA (and Canada!) collectively lack the ability to teach basic reading comprehension, basic arithmetic and basic interpersonal communication. We know this because the victims of their incompetence turn up in university year after year, unable to read, count or speak coherently.

    Google is probably seeking an "arrangement" with the national teacher's union. Slide them some money, make another front in the Anti-Trump Crusade.

    If the Republicans are smart, they will de-unionize teachers and eliminate the federal Dept. of Education. Sadly, I know they're not that smart. They'll try to Make A Deal, and get slaughtered. Again.

  9. San Diego libraries are now homeless shelters by shmorhay · · Score: 4, Informative

    Librarians have enough to do. Libraries have become homeless shelters, and librarians have to deal with the demented and the despairing. In San Diego, the beautiful new downtown library now has roving security guards rousting the poor, especially those who dare to nod off. Same problem in the smaller branch libraries. Maybe a trip to visit and chat with some librarians would be in order. With all the cuts in hours and salaries, listen to them tell you what they need. Making them adjunct faculty could be a non-starter, given their already onerous workload.

  10. Creative and Subtle by high_rolla · · Score: 2

    This seems to me like it was designed to look good PR wise but never actually succeed. Which seems to be the case with a lot of these "teach the kids to code" schemes.

    --
    Ryans Tutorials - A collection of technology tutorials.
  11. Very true, until everything was on the internet by raymorris · · Score: 2

    > A huge number of professions would benefit from people being able to script up something to reduce their work load.
    > There are companies still doing books in Excel by hand (not relying on any of Excel's built in functions).

    That is a great example. In 1990-2000, VBA scripting was something that could be very useful to a lot of people. These days, the spreadsheet is probably in the cloud (on the internet), pulling data from some source on the internet. Having people who can almost barely code creating code for your business, including those web-enabled spreadsheets, will very likely end up with one of them making all your data from your spreadsheets available online.

    As someone who learned to code in the 1980s, writing various types of macros and shell scripts that I ran on my computer, I feel for anyone starting to learn now. These days, most code is exposed to the web in some way, so it's attacked a hundred times per day. It's awfully hard to learn b safely in a business environment, when the smallest mistake will be exploited by hackers.

    1. Re:Very true, until everything was on the internet by exomondo · · Score: 2

      Being able to write scripts to automate bits of work is a great thing, having the average computer user familiar with using the command line rather than relying on dumbed down GUIs would be hugely beneficial. Not to mention the skills are much more portable, you can write bash scripts on just about any platform for example.

  12. I have a better idea by ooloorie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The biggest problem with expensive professional services is in health care. So, instead of having librarians teach kids how to code, why don't we have them teach kids how to treat patients? Librarians are smart, aren't they? Surely the could teach anything from GP diagnosis to pathology, radiology, and brain surgery, right? They are librarians! And by increasing the supply of medically trained kids, we could then better satisfy the demand for doctors!