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Microsoft Says It Is Winning Its New War Against Macs (cultofmac.com)

Windows PCs are starting to chip away at Apple's strong grip of the high-end computer market, Microsoft CFO Amy Hood said on an earnings call Thursday. From a report: Microsofts licensing business, which sells Windows to third-party PC makers, was up 5 percent last quarter, confirmed CFO Amy Hood during an earnings call on Thursday. The "non-pro" (consumer) market grew 5 percent, beating the overall decline of the PC industry. "Our partner ecosystem continued to see growth and share gains in the Windows premium device category," Hood continued. Those gains would have eaten into Apple's share of that market, which has been dominated by Macs until recently. There are other things that could have contributed to this, of course. Many long-time Mac users have been somewhat disappointed with Apple's most recent releases, which come with big changes that not everyone is willing to embrace.

55 of 313 comments (clear)

  1. Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple is self destructing. Minor difference, but it makes it sound like Microsoft is all of a sudden making better products. That would be a first, and probably not far off.

    Had a mac since '84 and I think my current macbook is the last I'll buy.

    1. Re:Nope by kamapuaa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, are you going to go Windows or Linux?

      Because while having to use a dongle to access your SD card is a slight nuisance, I guess, the alternatives are for shit.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    2. Re:Nope by alvinrod · · Score: 3, Informative

      While it's true that Apple hasn't done much in the way of releasing new products to actually compete, and the one product line they did refresh was with a controversial touch bar in place of function keys, Microsoft has gotten better at making products, particularly their Surface line. The newest one that looks much like an iMac but has a huge touch screen seems like it would be great for people who do a lot of drawing. I'll admit that I have no use for such things, but they've started making some interesting hardware, or at least releasing it. Back in the Ballmer days that talked about a lot of interesting stuff, but most of it never saw the light of day. Even outside of Surface, they're making stuff like Hololens.

      Their software on the other hand doesn't seem better, at least from the consumer side. I guess Azure is fairly popular and they've probably got other stuff I'm not overly familiar with that gets used by businesses. However, if Microsoft hadn't started making better products, people would have jumped ship from Apple for something else like HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc. instead of buying Microsoft hardware.

    3. Re:Nope by apoc.famine · · Score: 5, Interesting

      From my point of view or from Microsoft's?
       
      From their point of view, I'm going to Windows, because I'll probably go with a Dell XPS 13. From my point of view, it will be Linux. The "problem" is that Microsoft still gets my money, and they still add it to their stats, despite me not wanting their product and not wanting to pay for it.
       
      I have been a MBP user for a decade. My MBPs have been my main workhorses, and I loved them. I've been waiting 2-3 years for a refresh worth replacing my 2012 MBP with, and it's clear that it's not going to happen.
       
      Apple has now merged the MBP and the Air, which I don't understand. I don't want an Air. I want a fucking MBP. 3/4" thick, a battery that goes a day, all my ports, and hardware that's not 5 years behind. 256gb solid state drive, 8gb of ram, and an i5 is the base configuration? Really? For $1500? Really? $1800 on the XPS 13 gives you double everything and an i7 in an aluminum body and all the ports.
       
      I used to love OS X, but even that's starting to wear on me. For example, I'm required to sign into iCloud with the latest OS X update. I have not figured out how to turn this off. I have disabled everything syncing to iCloud, but every hour or so I get a popup telling me to log in. No way to turn it off. Why? See the tiny little hard drives that Apple now ships with, and the inability to upgrade them or add another. (I've got a 1Tb drive in my 2012 MBP for comparison.)
       
      Two or three years ago, the alternatives were definitely shit. Now, I don't think so. The alternatives are better, and the current line of MBPs (and OS X) are so fucking terrible that I'm inclined to say that the pendulum has shifted to the alternatives.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    4. Re:Nope by HaZardman27 · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you're getting an XPS 13 and don't want Windows, take a look at their Developer Edition line; http://www.dell.com/us/busines... Ships with Ubuntu, but you should be able to put any flavor of Linux you'd like on it.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    5. Re:Nope by fred6666 · · Score: 2

      If you don't need to run Adobe software, or some other specialized thing, and you have the ability to figure things out for yourself, seriously, it's the way to go.

      Probably less than 1% of the population need to run Adobe software. You can read PDF and even run flash just fine on Linux.

    6. Re:Nope by fred6666 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What's wrong with lying to a corporation like Dell? Other than the nuisance to lose 10 seconds entering the information, I don't see any problem.

    7. Re: Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      However, you can't build iOS apps.

      Apple: you need to do something about this: port your iOS build environment to linux before you kill the mac.

    8. Re:Nope by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Macs aren't perfect, and Windows has gotten much better, but man -- their UI just makes me want to claw my eyes out! I have a Windows 10 x64 box with a nice 28" Viewsonic connected to a nice Radeon card, and typing in a browser doesn't look much better than it did 15 years ago! I've never understood why in all the years of good video cards and GUI development that Microsoft couldn't get font rendering looking good. And you'll never get me off Time Machine backups! It made deploying this new iMac or my wife's new MacBook Pro that her boss bought her last Fall so easy. My wife is an astronomer and all of their data center is Linux, so Macs are a very smooth fit for the staff.

      Remember we are in post truth days, alternative facts, and we elected it, so this is what America wants.

      We have a nation where for some reason Popularity equals everything.So Kim Kardashian is the most beautiful woman in the world, VHS is the best video system, and the cheapest laptop that you can buy at Walmart is incredibly superior to a 30 K Mac Pro.

      Toyota Corolla is the biggest selling car, so it is also the best car in the world.

      Oh - and Honey Boo Boo's mother who recently re-hooked up with a registered sex offender who boinked one of her daughters, and has a new show, which is good television.

      Somehow.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    9. Re: Nope by oic0 · · Score: 2

      It's the inability to be able to figure stuff out on your own in Linux that kills it for me. It's designed by people that deep down inside hate GUIs. You need Google to find out what they've decided you need to type into terminal to make things happen. If rather not open my self to that kind of irritating frustration.

  2. Keeping up with the Macs by Halomez · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I find it funny that the only Windows win is against a platform that Apple has all but abandoned for years. I wonder if Microsoft realizes how much trouble Windows is in.

    1. Re:Keeping up with the Macs by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What kind of trouble do *you* think they're in? I sure don't see it. For sure, I don't see them growing much any time soon, because the PC market is so mature, but I sure don't see them as being in any kind of "trouble" either.

      PCs aren't going anywhere. You need them to do real work, which can't be done on phones or with phone OSes which are horribly limited (by design). Obviously, you (and many others) believe that Apple seems to be dropping the ball here, and sales numbers do seem to support that currently. However, there's no evidence that people are flocking to anything else either, in sufficient numbers to matter. As much as I'd like everyone to switch to desktop Linux, and have been hoping for that for 15+ years now, I've given up on it because I just don't see it happening. Luckily, desktop Linux is IMO completely usable and in fact superior, but that doesn't equate to mass adoption. People (and companies) are just too married to the Windows platform and its "ecosystem".

      So AFAICT, MS can just sit back and milk the Windows/Office cash cow indefinitely. Again, this is not a company you should invest in if you're looking for a "growth" stock, but it absolutely should have reliable revenues.

    2. Re: Keeping up with the Macs by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The PC market is hardly a major growth industry, so while it's increased its sales gap with the Mac platform, so what?

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re: Keeping up with the Macs by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Have you looked at Apple's cash reserves? 237.6 billion versus around 113 billion. Apple could buy Microsoft's liquid assets and still have over 100 billion to spare.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re:Keeping up with the Macs by tepples · · Score: 2

      As long as Apple keeps App Store submission exclusive to Xcode and Xcode in turn exclusive to macOS, I don't see "Microsoft giv[ing] Apple a kicking with it[s] [S]urface products" any time soon.

    5. Re: Keeping up with the Macs by avandesande · · Score: 2

      Believe it or not, large amounts of cash reserves is not a good sign. It indicates the company is stagnant and doesn't have anything to invest in internally to make the company grow.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    6. Re:Keeping up with the Macs by gnunick · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Linux biggest problem is that they (Distro makers) were never willing to raise some serious money and actually try.

      Yeah, it's a little hard to "sell" something for free and compete with the $$ marketing campaigns of major closed-source companies. Want to tell us about how easy it is for you to raise some "serious money"? I mean, whenever you decide you're willing to raise it.

      Flat, high contrast UI is what's "in," get with it.

      I'll stop here as I could list about 10 serious issues such as these.

      Um, yeah. If you think adopting the latest gee-whiz, touch screen-obsessed, desktop-crippling, dumbed-down UI on a desktop OS is a "serious" issue, I'm pretty sure I don't care to hear about your other 8 "serious" issues.

      Once in a rare while I install and open some old app that's no longer in development and is stuck with some old turn-of-the-century GTK/GTK2 UI. So ugly! Yes, things were crappy in 2000. You couldn't even install a popular Linux distro and expect it to "just work". Hard to imagine that today!

      The only trouble I have with Linux (I currently use Ubuntu) is a recent regression on my MacBook Pro--used to work perfectly, and still does on the Mac Mini I'm using this very moment. But even with some ACPI issues on the laptop I'm happy I don't have to use OSX on it. But sorry, I digress. I was talking about actual functional issues, nothing as "serious" as the latest high-contrast, flat UI fashion.

      As for the UI... yes, things sure have improved a lot in the UI/UX world in the past 17 years, except in the MS world which seems seems to have been devolving for a few years at least, and I commend Linux distros not keeping up with touch-obsessed disgraces like the Aero/Metro UI that looks like a card game or something.

      --
      I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious. --Albert Einstein
  3. Not so much winning as simply not failing as hard by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Microsoft is only shooting itself in the foot while its opponents over at apple have somehow lodged their guns into their own rectums. Its not so much that microsoft is winning the battle, as apple is just failing worse.

  4. Yeah right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    All my friends have ditched Windows 10 and gone to MacOS.
    Several have lost work due to updates and reboots. These aren't IT people.
    The spying and constant messing around with the system were enough for them.
    OSX/MacOS isn't perfect but for them it is a whole lot better for average users than W10.
     

    1. Re:Yeah right by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When Chrome starts running Android Apps, Microsoft will be dead, except for platform specific products, at which case, most of those could probably be wound up in a custom appliance. I'm simply surprised why anyone would need to build on top of Windows any longer.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  5. Is Apple even trying anymore? by QuietLagoon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...Windows PCs are starting to chip away at Apple's strong grip of the high-end computer market...

    From my viewpoint, it looks as if Apple has abandoned the high-end computer market. The product line has been stagnating.

    .
    Of course, leave it to Microsoft to declare itself winning over a competitor that has all but abandoned the particular marketspace.

    1. Re:Is Apple even trying anymore? by helsinki92 · · Score: 2

      Which still means Microsoft is winning the war.

    2. Re:Is Apple even trying anymore? by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My brother makes motion graphics for various tv/web advertising firms - he said one trend that Apple totally dropped the ball on was using devices like the Surface Pro to paint and draw with using Adobe Photoshop (which Adobe worked with Microsoft directly on).

      He told me there were people in his circle who decided that the capability was worth the price of the entire device.

      So yes the high end exists, and yes it still depends on the killer app ;) - and yes in this one case Microsoft (working with Adobe) nailed it.

      One of the reason's you won't see this sort of thing happening on iOS/iPad anytime soon is they still really don't have the computational power or - more specifically the memory requirements to manipulate or work with large print images, video and animations - something that big desktops and laptops are still king at.

    3. Re:Is Apple even trying anymore? by PoopJuggler · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or it means that the market analysts at Apple know something that MS doesn't.

    4. Re:Is Apple even trying anymore? by PoopJuggler · · Score: 3, Informative

      Uh, real digital artists use Wacom Cintiqs, not Surface. I should know, I worked with hundreds of them. I've never seen a single artist use a Surface.

  6. Missing 'Pro' features by TheOldBear · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'll be hanging on to my retina mb pro for the foreseeable future [however short that is]. I like having the built in HDMI and SD card slots, along with the possibility of upgrading the internal storage. For a tru 'pro' Macbook, I would like to see Apple revive the old 2012 form factor, with single mini display port / thunderbolt 2 replacing the firewire port, 1 USB A & 2 USB C/thunderbolt 3 ports - and if possible both magsafe & hdmi ports. The old design's optical bay could hold either an optical drive, or extra battery, or extra storage - all user serviceable. The user should also be able to upgrade the RAM - up to 32 Gig.

    --
    Caution: Do not stare into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:Missing 'Pro' features by Higaran · · Score: 4, Insightful

      HA HA HA A user serviceable mac, LOL you'll sooner find a user serviceable Iphone. To get what you want will never happen, pretty soon they will seal the entire thing in the case just like a phone. If you want to do anything to it its basically destroyed, Apple specifically doesn't want anyone touching anything inside of their tech. Don't fix it, just buy a new one is basically their motto.

    2. Re:Missing 'Pro' features by sydsavage · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Couldn't agree more, with the addition of built in ethernet for network admins. Thinness means nothing if I've got to carry around a bag full of dongles. And 'Pro' means user upgradeable/repairable components, at least memory and HD. Dropping magsafe was a huge mistake, they could still allow charging thru USB C/thunderbolt.

      For a desktop, bring back the cheese grater tower, with current spec ports and SATA 3, perhaps M2/PCI for SSD connectivity.

      They have the sexiest designs, but seem to have forgotten that form follows function. Having no user serviceable/upgradable parts on entry level machines is fine if really necessary and helps lower the price point, as 99% of consumer level users never crack the case, but Pro's should have upgrade options besides thunderbolt.

  7. I suppose by wickerprints · · Score: 5, Funny

    If your enemy shoots themselves in the foot, that doesn't mean your aim has improved. Microsoft products still suck; they just suck a lot less relative to how much worse Apple products have become.

  8. It may well be... by ilsaloving · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It may well be, but it's not because of anything Microsoft is doing.

    Virtually every professional I know have all but given up on Apple thanks to the idiocy they've been pulling in recent years. At this point, it is so beyond glaringly obvious that they're now just taking the piss out of their customer base, that people no longer feel that that apple tax is worth it.

    I just priced out a 13" MBP for myself. The MINIMUM viable product for my use is almost $3000. And this is minimum viable for my CURRENT needs, never mind what I might need a couple years from now. And of course, Apple forces me to plan ahead cause they solder everything onto the main board with no option for future upgrades. And this price doesn't count the bajillion dongles I'll have to buy (since the bajillion I already own are now useless), nor apple care.

    The part that pisses me off the most is that they are very obviously gimping their lower priced products to force people to buy the more expensive stuff. For example, the base 13" MBP with a memory and storage bump would have been good enough for me.... EXCEPT IT ONLY HAS TWO TB3 PORTS AND ONE GETS USED FOR POWER. So you have literally ONE whole port to do *everything*.

    And as of right now, there is literally NOT ONE single TB3 port replicator or hub available on the market to purchase (Yes, I've looked. Even OWC won't be available for at least a couple months from now at the soonest), so my options are to cobble together some ridiculous spaghetti mess of dongles, USB hubs and other nonsense just so I can use an external monitor and ethernet at the same time, or I spend the extra $700 to get their highest end model that graciously allows me to upgrade both ram and storage, AND has 4 TB-3 ports to use. (Their mid-range specifically does NOT give you the option to upgrade storage. You can have any size you want as long as it 256GB)

    The currently generation of macbooks are flat out inexcusable.

    1. Re:It may well be... by aicrules · · Score: 2

      This doesn't change the overall issue you describe, but there is this hub: https://www.bourgedesign.com/s...

      If that helps make the base MBP work for you though, then perhaps that will alleviate your overall issue though.

    2. Re:It may well be... by hey! · · Score: 2

      One thing that has characterized Apple as a business over the decades is that it doesn't stay in businesses where it can't charge a premium for design qualities that other companies can't match. It has no interest in engaging in price competition with other companies providing similar products.

      This drives a mania for novelty and differentiation which is great when it works out, but it also means you can't count on Apple in the long term. They're like a boxer with a massive punch and a glass jaw.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    3. Re:It may well be... by ilsaloving · · Score: 2

      Thank you. I hadn't seen that particular model. However, I'll point out that it's only available for pre-order, so it too isn't shipping yet.

    4. Re:It may well be... by ilsaloving · · Score: 2

      Agreed. They care more about making it thinner than giving people a product that is actually meaningful to them.

      I'm in the same boat. At home I have a 2011 MBP that you can pry from my cold dead hands. The last model to have a built in ethernet port, and nearly the last that let me upgrade the ram and HD myself. I boosted it up to 16GB and added a 1TB SSD, and it's still doing well as long as I don't try to play 2016 AAA games.

      The only reason I'm looking for a new MBP now is cause my current work machine is no longer able to keep up with what I'm doing (mac mini) and it's pointless to buy another one since Apple hasn't even updated it.

    5. Re:It may well be... by ilsaloving · · Score: 2

      That's not entirely true. During the golden 2000's, basically when Steve Jobs came back, they started putting out machines that you could actually do something with. They switched to intel. They started using standardized PC parts. And strangely enough, this is why Apple's sales started ballooning.

      At home I currently have a 2011 macbook pro where I was able to upgrade the ram to 16GB. I replaced the hard drive with a 1TB SSD. With the exception of the battery now being borderline unusable, the machine itself is still chugging along fine.

      But it seems that now that Cook is in charge, Apple is reverting back to the bad old days. And now they're paying the price with sales have started to go significantly negative for the first time in... what? 10 years? 15 years?

      I can only hope that they pull their collective heads out and realize that they had a good thing going, go back to it.

  9. Apples hardware sucks! HP Z marketing is right! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Apples hardware sucks! HP Z marketing is right!

    http://www8.hp.com/us/en/campa...

    This is where desktops / workstations are not going away anytime soon.

    Also apple does not have anything the works good in server room other then running mac os in VM on non apple hardware that works but the license does not let you do that.

  10. It Is Impressive! by HannethCom · · Score: 5, Funny

    While Apple has decided to roll over and die, Microsoft shoved a fork in their eye (Windows 8), shoved a fork in their other eye (Windows 8.1), then tried falling on their own sword (Windows 10) and finally are wiggling around the sword trying to hit a major organ, vein, or artery. (Anniversary Update)

    Yes, I think Microsoft's OS is better, but they both seem to be trying to get the golden raspberry.

    --
    Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.
    1. Re: It Is Impressive! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      So you recommend Raspbian then?

    2. Re:It Is Impressive! by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 5, Interesting

      MacOS is better. It's a unix derivative. I have my programs (in python & C mostly) on a network drive and they compile and run the same on Linux and MacOS. I use Latex and gnuplot a lot. They both run the same on Linux and MacOS.

      Windows is not like that. It's it's own thing and I have to jump through hoops to make programs and documents work across all three. So I don't. I use a Mac and I use Linux. Work give me a windows laptop and I use it to ssh into Linux to do work.

      Other people's priorities are generally very different to mine, but I don't give a crap about the minutiae of UI elements (unless it's truly horrible like Gnome). I care about the programming environment.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    3. Re:It Is Impressive! by amiga3D · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I care about the hardware too and there still isn't a real improvement out there to the 2012 15 inch macbook pro I already have. I'm still waiting on an actual hardware upgrade after 5 years.

    4. Re:It Is Impressive! by PoopJuggler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm with you. MacOS is the best GUI OS I have ever used, and I've used everything from GeOS to BeOS, Amiga, AT&T, Lisa, you name it. I've never heard anyone of any importance say anything bad about MacOS. VMWare Fusion fills in if I need Windows or Linux.

    5. Re:It Is Impressive! by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I was with you until the last sentence. Frankly, it's been a while that I've looked at MacOS, but it was always ways superior to Windows since I can remember. And paradoxically Apple used to always make their profits with hardware (which has now become meh, I suppose). Has any of this changed so much? Did I miss something?

      No it has not changed. You missed nothing.

      The hardware is great, with year-over-year improvements on just the MacBook Pro, and soon to be coming to the Desktop line, now that Intel has gotten their thumb out of their asses on their CPUs a little bit.

      UNIQUE features, found in NO OTHER LAPTOP for the 2016 MacBook Pros (esp. the 15"):

      1. 80 Gbps of raw, multifunctional I/O bandwidth. Nearly TWICE that of any other Laptop, regardless of brand, regardless of price.

      2. 5k Internal Display on 15" model (I think the 13" is 4k?) I believe that is UNIQUE relative to any other Laptop, regardless of brand, regardless of price.

      3. UNIQUE, Custom, Apple-Designed SSD Controller with the highest Read/Write performance in the industry.

      4. Ability to natively drive up to FOUR 4k external displays, plus its internal 5k display, or up to TWO 5k external displays, plus its internal 5k display, more than any other Laptop, regardless of brand, regardless of price.

      5. UNIQUE, multitouch, multifunctional Touch Bar interface, that not only replaces the Function keys, but also allows Applications and the OS to present the user with unique, custom controls that do not take up screen real-estate.

      6. The largest Trackpad in the known universe ;-)

      7. TouchID, with ApplePay and App Store Support, as well as several other OS and Application-Level functions.


      Now, Add to that the improvements over even just last year's model; which are, all of the above items, PLUS:

      1. MUCH better Thermal Management, which allows the CPU and GPU to run full-speed, essentially as long as power is available. The 2015 MBP had SEVERE "Throttling" problems, which seriously compromised performance in high-demand applications.

      2. Thinner and lighter than the previous model (which DOES matter to more people than you would imagine) 3. Redesigned, improved keyboard (people who have owned both the 2015 and 1016 MBPs report the new keyboard makes the old one feel "mushy"). 4. USB-C and TB3 support.

      5. MUCH improved speakers.

      6. Three microphones in the 15" model, which helps with speech-recognition. Important, since Siri is now part of macOS.

      And if you will notice, those are ALL solid, engineering improvements, with the possible exception of the size and weight reduction (which also took no small-amount of re-engineering).

      So, as you can see, Apple has HARDLY "abandoned the Mac". And I haven't even talked about the improvements to macOS...

    6. Re:It Is Impressive! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No it isnt.

    7. Re:It Is Impressive! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      you're a retarded fanboi.

      1, 2, 4) shit you can't use because there are no TB3 docks
      3) LOL. Samsung 960 pro is almost twice as fast.
      5) LOL, my sides, you can put that smiley face there on the touchpads
      6) smaller is actually better
      7) Thinkpad from fucking 2005 had that

    8. Re:It Is Impressive! by chipschap · · Score: 2

      But the people of importance are now saying Windows 10 is as good as or in some ways better than OSX.

      People of importance from Microsoft, no doubt.

    9. Re:It Is Impressive! by vux984 · · Score: 4, Informative

      1. 80 Gbps of raw, multifunctional I/O bandwidth. Nearly TWICE that of any other Laptop, regardless of brand, regardless of price.

      If it had a port to check my car's tire pressure that would also be a feature that no other laptop has, at any price. In other words: so what?

      This falls into the category of shit I don't need and can't use with any equipment i own or am likely to own this year. The multifunctional i/o bandwidth available in other laptops is fine. Apple going to 11 on this feature is all fine and dandy but it lacks the features users actually need and want.

      2. 5k Internal Display on 15" model (I think the 13" is 4k?) I believe that is UNIQUE relative to any other Laptop, regardless of brand, regardless of price.

      UNIQUE yes. UNIQUELY pointless. Its just more "Innovation" nobody cares about. Do you have 5k content? No? So who cares? At 15" will it look any better than 4k display? No? So who cares?

      3. UNIQUE, Custom, Apple-Designed SSD Controller with the highest Read/Write performance in the industry.

      I'd far rather a COTS module I can replace in 2 years for $200 for with a 4TB one. I'm willing to give up a few % points of performance for that. My 2011 Macbook pro is still useful to me (my family at least) because I was able to upgrade the RAM and SSD. This new one? Sure its a few points faster ... but its stupidly overrpiced for the marginal improvement in speed, and you're stuck with whatever capacity you get today forever. I don't object to the existence of this tech as an option for people who want it... but does apple give you the option? Nope. If you want an MBP you have to have this overpriced tech whether you want it or not, whether you need it or not, whether you'd be happier with COTS SSD or not.

      4. Ability to natively drive up to FOUR 4k external displays, plus its internal 5k display, or up to TWO 5k external displays, plus its internal 5k display, more than any other Laptop, regardless of brand, regardless of price.

      But no native ability to connect to even one HDMI projector in the customer or hotel meeting rooms without carrying a bag of accessories. Swing and a miss.

      5. UNIQUE, multitouch, multifunctional Touch Bar interface, that not only replaces the Function keys, but also allows Applications and the OS to present the user with unique, custom controls that do not take up screen real-estate.

      Replacing keys i can touch type with a bar i can't is not progress. It's 2 steps backward 1 step forward. Cool feature, maybe, definitely wasn't worth giving up function keys I can touch type with for, and the escape key. What's the next innovation to replace the number key row too? Then you can have numbers or even more application controls. Better still just get rid of the keyboard and staple two ipads together as the new macbook pro.

      6. The largest Trackpad in the known universe ;-)

      There is too small. And there is big enough. "Largest in the known universe" isn't worth anything once the others are 'big enough'.

      7. TouchID, with ApplePay and App Store Support, as well as several other OS and Application-Level functions.

      So, as you can see, Apple has HARDLY "abandoned the Mac".

      I kind of recall Top Gear covering a lot of cars over the years that are just like the mac book pro... you know the ones... the cars with 1500 horsepower but no trunk or glove box. $50,000 for custom brake system that shaves 6 ft off a stop from 60 to 0... but well... $50,000 and when they fail you have to fly an engineer from Italy to service them. And you need a truck following you around with spare tires because it rips through a pair as often as a regular car needs to fill up with gas. A tour de force of technology... but completley useless as a daily driver.

      That's the macbook pro...sure its got support for up to four 4k screens but you need to carry around a bag of dongles to attach a USB flashdrive. 80Gbps of io but we're not allowed to have more than 16GB RAM? Its utterly ridiculous.

    10. Re:It Is Impressive! by david_thornley · · Score: 2

      But the people of importance are now saying Windows 10 is as good as or in some ways better than OSX.

      Thus demonstrating that people of importance can afford the better recreational pharmaceuticals.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    11. Re:It Is Impressive! by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "You, sir, are an unmitigated moron."

      Funny. I feel the same way about you. You are spouting absolute nonsense. We're both modded +5. Neat.

      5k is irrelevant. its irrelevant today and it will still be irrelevant in 5 years. if anything, we'll move to 8k before 5k gets any real traction.

      Go to Amazon. No need to carry "a bag of accessories". Just buy something like THIS, or THIS, or even THIS or THIS, and you're all set for "Legacy Ports".

      Yeah... buy a laptop missing a bunch of features, and then attach another smaller box to it to make it an actual pro laptop. That's brilliant. Pro users want a workhorse like a truck and you think they should just buy a car and trailer, and that that it is just as good? You know any contractors who drive a civic and pull a trailer around? Ever wonder why not? BECAUSE THEY CAN BUY A FUCKING TRUCK.

      That shit on amazon wouldn't be necessary if you could buy a proper laptop in the first place.

      Once again, "My Use Case MUST be EVERYONE'S Use Case. WTF is wrong with you???

      The difference between my examples and your is the users I am representing is the *actual majority of users*, and the use-cases you are campaigning for are the tiny niches. Which use case is more common?

      a) A pro user who needs to attach a flash drive to their computer, or an HDMI projector in a board room?
      b) A pro user who needs 5k screen and 4 4k screens all attached to his laptop; because he doesn't already have a desktop?

      Catering to b) is perfectly fine, but claiming a) is not the far more common and important feature to support is just rectal cranial inversion.

      If you look at the TrackPad on the MBP 2016, it is nearly the size of an iPhone screen. Next stop for that TrackPad will be to work with the Apple Pencil. Mark my words. THEN, it will make sense...

      And if that happens in 2019 I'll give a shit THEN. But your wrong. Nobody wants to draw on the track pad. If anything Dell's convertibles have it right... flip it over and draw right on the goddamned screen.

      This is hardly a Bugatti. This is a Laptop for PROs, that has an "Eye to the Future". But still practical today.

      If it were there would not be a million articles taking a shit on it for not having the features people want TODAY.

      That's why you can buy miniDP to ??? Adapters at WALMART these days, FFS!

      I can buy tire irons at walmart too -- so what?

      Doesn't mean my car shouldn't have one included in the tire change kit. Even my 911 has a collapsible tire change kit with everything needed to change a tire as standard equipment. Why? Because when I need to change a fucking tire i am not likely to be parked at a fucking walmwart where i can just buy a tire iron.

      Likewise when I need to plug my laptop into a customers projector... that is not going to happen in the cable aisle at a walmart, where i can just reach over and grab the adapter i need. No. Instead it usually means NOT using the projector and having everyone gather around the tiny laptop, because in the real world you don't pause a meeting for 20 minutes to make a fucking trip to walmart.

      And guess what? There are PLENTY of Non-Apple Laptops that have nothing but a miniDisplayPort Port. You'll be whipping out that "Bag Of Accessories" for them, too.

      I can easily shop around bad design choices them when I'm buying Non-apple laptops. There are several vendors, with dozens of products lines that cater to pro-users. If apple is going to be the only vendor of OSX then it's under more pressure to get its one-size-fits-most to actually fit most.

      If you are Pining for the USB-A, go to frickin' Amazon, and pick up a few of these $2.50 USB-C to USB-A adapters. They are cheap enough ($7 for 3) and small enough, that you can simply clip them onto your USB-A cables and LEAVE THEM THERE.

      Yeah. I al

  11. Apple has been complacent by sjbe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wonder if Microsoft realizes how much trouble Windows is in.

    Microsoft is making tens of billions in profit from Windows every year with no end in sight. If that's trouble then give me some of that. PCs might not be the dominant force they once were but they aren't going away any time soon and there is nothing that is likely to displace Windows as the dominant operating system in PCs either. Furthermore Microsoft is the only ones doing anything even kind of innovative in traditional PCs these days. Their work in merging tablets and laptops is actually working in some areas (after a LOT of false starts) whereas Apple's big "innovations" are removing keys that nobody had a problem with and taking away ports people actually use. I'm not going to be a Windows fan any time soon but at least they are trying. Apple seems to not give a shit about the Macs anymore and they certainly haven't done anything in that space worth mentioning for several years now.

    1. Re:Apple has been complacent by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      Windows 10 tablet mode still sucks badly.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  12. Weighing Options by unixcorn · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Work just provided me with a new laptop. It was my choice and I selected a new MBP 15 inch. My reasons are longevity - my last MBP, which I own, lasted more than 4 years, and I am still using it. OSX is an excellent operating system. I sometimes go months without rebooting and I use the machine 8+ hours each day. I can also run Windows on my MBP. I prefer VMWare Fusion for my virtual machines but Parallels is fine too.
    Had I selected a Windows laptop, I would have only a Windows laptop. Having the MBP allows me to test and develop against both platforms. It also provides me with a way to run the less expensive versions of any commercial software, should there be a difference in cost.
    So, while Windows licensing sales may be up, there is no way to know where those OS's are running. Heck, it could be that folks are buying licenses to run on their Macs.

  13. Re:No... no it's not. by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

    You misspelled "it's not really free if you already need a recent Windows license".

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  14. Re:Microsoft wins regardless due to Parallels by tepples · · Score: 2

    How well does Numbers run complex macros, such as the validation macros in the spreadsheets that Amazon Seller Central encourages sellers to use? And what instead of Microsoft Access to run commercial off the shelf VBA apps?

  15. in the same boat by beckett · · Score: 2

    why don't you Make Your Macbook Pro Again?

    I am in the same boat; i use OSX and have been looking for a replacement for my 2011 MBP. I think this is the closest i'll come to getting an upgrade without switching to a windows platform. still having a hard time with soldered ram and ssds though. maybe apple will come to their senses in the near future, and think about prioritizing function over form in the future.

  16. Can't even find Refurbs anymore by ilsaloving · · Score: 3, Informative

    As another datapoint to how badly Apple is pissing people off... I periodically look at the refurb lists that Apple offers. For the first time ever, almost their entire stock of refurbs is gone. Literally nothing left except for a couple of base model 11" Airs.

    It isn't rocket science when people preferentially buy last years refurbs to "superior" current gen products, to conclude that the current gen products are crap.