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Bay Area Tech Job Growth Has Rapidly Decelerated (mercurynews.com)

An anonymous reader shares a MercuryNews report: Job growth in the tech industry used to zoom like a race car, but these days, hiring by this principal driver of the Bay Area's economy chugs along more like a family SUV. The technology industry's job growth in the nine-county region has dramatically decelerated, according to this newspaper's analysis of figures released by state labor officials and Beacon Economics. Tech's annual job growth throttled back to 3.5 percent, or 26,700 new jobs, in 2016. That's much slower than the 6 percent annual gain of 42,300 jobs in 2015, or the 6.4 percent gain in 2014. And while the industry's 3.5 percent growth last year is still a sturdy annual pace, Bay Area technology companies have already disclosed plans to slash about 2,000 jobs in the first three months of 2017.

161 comments

  1. Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The market can bear only so many image-sharing chat "apps".

    1. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's buying user base. Thing is, they're all the same people, so the big social networks buying the small are essentially buying the users they already have.

      Ever see that episode of Sunny where they print the Paddy's bucks? It's basically that. They spend their money to print fake money, then give it away and don't understand why they don't get money back.

    2. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by ranton · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or more likely there is only so much room to fit people in the Bay Area, so hiring in other cities has started to take up the slack. It really is ridiculous to pay developer $200k a year in a place where that doesn't even give you an upper middle class lifestyle when you can pay people $150k in most large cities (or their suburbs) which can give employees a much higher standard of living.

      I wouldn't take a job in the Bay Area for even a $100k/yr raise, since my comfortable six figure salary in the Chicago suburbs gives me a 2500 sq ft house with a nice yard and public schools that rival the best private schools. My $500k house would cost at least $3 million in the Bay Area.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    3. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Funny

      I wouldn't take a job in the Bay Area for even a $100k/yr raise, since my comfortable six figure salary in the Chicago suburbs gives me a 2500 sq ft house with a nice yard and public schools that rival the best private schools.

      On the downside, you're in the Chicago suburbs.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't take a job in the Bay Area for even a $100k/yr raise, since my comfortable six figure salary in the Chicago suburbs gives me a 2500 sq ft house with a nice yard and public schools that rival the best private schools.

      On the downside, you're in the Chicago suburbs.

      ... Which gives him/her easy access to one of the best-connected airports in North America, with cheap (!) non-stop flights to Europe, Asia and South America. And he/she can afford to travel on that comfortable salary...

    5. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's both. The tech market is oversaturated and overvalued and the Bay Area is overcrowded.

    6. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...doesn't change that its still the Chicago suburbs...

    7. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't take a job in the Bay Area for even a $100k/yr raise, since my comfortable six figure salary in the Chicago suburbs gives me a 2500 sq ft house with a nice yard and public schools that rival the best private schools.

      On the downside, you're in the Chicago suburbs.

      ... Which gives him/her easy access to one of the best-connected airports in North America, with cheap (!) non-stop flights to Europe, Asia and South America. And he/she can afford to travel on that comfortable salary...

      We also don't suffer frequent earthquakes, multi-year droughts, annual mudslides and forest fires, etc...

    8. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Chicago area is a dump, traffic nightmare, and a liberals wet dream! Taxes are so high in the NW Burbs. Glad to be gone.

    9. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      IIRC an average of 3 people/year die in Chicago from ice falling off buildings. You can have it.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    10. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My $500k house would cost at least $3 million in the Bay Area.

      Ok, so we cant get a tractor-trailer for less than a quarter-million, move your house, and make over 2 and a half million in profit.

      Brilliant.

    11. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Or more likely there is only so much room to fit people in the Bay Area.

      Can always cram more people in. Manilla has a population density per sq km of:
      41,515 people.

      San Francisco itself has a population density of
      6,659
      (I imagine the combined Bay area will be a little lower than that) So you should be able to cram at least 30million more people into the Bay Area if you try).

      You could create a lot of SnapChat clones with 30million programmers.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    12. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Probably something like 3 people/day die in Chicago for looking at someone the wrong way. The Ice wouldn't scare me.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    13. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm sure more than three people a year die in California after receiving their tax bills for the year.

      At least the ice is sort of natural.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    14. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by tepples · · Score: 1

      But doesn't not needing to pay as much in rent cancel out higher tax rates?

    15. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But doesn't not needing to pay as much in rent cancel out higher tax rates?

      No, according to Big Brother's NewSpeak manual, ANY taxes are doubleplusungood. The only thing worse than having to pay taxes is having a medical care program that doesn't bankrupt you or go away when your job is outsourced.

    16. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Places with a bad reputation tends to not be as bad when you are used to living there.
      In the same fashion places with a good reputation tends to attract all kinds of assholes making the place not as good as its reputation.

      I live in one of those immigrant dense suburbs with a crap reputation.
      Some decade ago there was a reported shooting. (A gun-nut neighbor shot his rifle to celebrate whatever and probably took reasonable safety precautions.)
      Apart from that it is fscking utopia where everyone is friendly and nothing ever happens.
      Still people in other suburbs thinks where I live is some sort of no-go war-zone.

      Well, I don't mind, it keeps the rent down.

    17. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Chicago area is a dump, traffic nightmare, and a liberals wet dream! Taxes are so high in the NW Burbs. Glad to be gone.

      And the granola* land called California is not?

      (* Nuts and Fruits held together by a lot of flakes.)

    18. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      We also don't suffer frequent earthquakes, multi-year droughts, annual mudslides and forest fires, etc...

      But when you go outside your house, you're in the Chicago suburbs.

      Don't get me wrong. I'm a lifelong Chicagoan, currently living in Houston, but eager to go back. I love Chicago like a family member. But if you're going to live in the Chicago area, and brave the miserable winter, the miserable mayor, and the Chicago Bears, you at least ought to live closer to downtown, where accessibility to a decent Italian beef somewhat ameliorates the misery.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    19. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I'm sure more than three people a year die in California after receiving their tax bills for the year.

      You need to talk to someone who owns property in Chicago and ask them about their taxes.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    20. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by ranton · · Score: 1

      The Chicago area is a dump, traffic nightmare, and a liberals wet dream! Taxes are so high in the NW Burbs. Glad to be gone.

      Taxes are incredibly high in the NW Burbs (about $14k per year on a $500k house) but you also get private school quality education paid for with those taxes. There are plenty of Chicago suburbs with low taxes, but your kids ultimately pay for it. That or you pay far more in private school tuition than you would have in taxes.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    21. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I moved out of that broke sh*t hole. Moved South, bought a house for cash and make more money than I did in that dump Chicago.

      A 4 bedroom 2000 sq ft house with basement in TN. Taxes $1,500-2000/yr. My 4 bedroom in the far north Burbs was $8K! Probably more now.

      Fuel, sales tax, traffic. Good riddance

    22. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Dripdry · · Score: 1

      Are you sure you're not from, or related to, a Minnesotan?
      Gotta have something to complain about during the winter, dontcha'-know.

      In seriousness... I left Chicago for L.A., now in Atlanta.

      I wouldn't likely go back, even though the schools in Libertyville, Evanston, Glenview, and Naperville are some of the best in the entire nation.
      The suburbs (there at least) are culturally isolated, conformity is king; even with Indian and Asian kids I grew up with, who were culturally nurtured at home. Hugely whitewashed, and the corporate overlords at Abbott, Motorola, Baxter, etc. seem to really like it that way. Want something to do on Friday? Go to the mall. Or a bar. Or little Betty's dance recital.
      After leaving I realized that I'd missed out on a LOT; maybe that was my parents though.
      I get the feeling suburbs are this way everywhere, so some Chicago 'burbs seems to have it better than many places by a little.

      As Rush sang,"The suburbs have no charms to sooth the restless dream of youth"

      --
      -
    23. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0

      God damn that is a blatant racist dog whistle. I guess it's OK to be racist if you're a liberal?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    24. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly the decline in population for the last few years in IL; I'd say a majority of people disagree with you.

    25. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by Dripdry · · Score: 1

      Mod this fella up!
      I lived in Libertyville growing up and the schools are some of the best in the nation.

      L.A. is MUCH crunchier than Chicago/NW Suburbs; Chicago is very midwestern most of the time, while L.A. is a bit tweaky and disjointed, but more diverse; much more than Chi-town.

      --
      -
    26. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We also don't suffer frequent earthquakes, multi-year droughts, annual mudslides and forest fires, etc...

      But when you go outside your house, you're in the Chicago suburbs.

      Don't get me wrong. I'm a lifelong Chicagoan, currently living in Houston, but eager to go back. I love Chicago like a family member. But if you're going to live in the Chicago area, and brave the miserable winter, the miserable mayor, and the Chicago Bears, you at least ought to live closer to downtown, where accessibility to a decent Italian beef somewhat ameliorates the misery.

      The suburbs reach very far outside of Cook County. Plenty of good Italian beef places and more here in Aurora and Naperville.

    27. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      IIRC an average of 3 people/year die in Chicago from ice falling off buildings. You can have it.

      Here in the UK, about 10 people a year die from accidentally falling off cliffs. So I'm not getting within a hundred miles of the sea. Oh, wait...

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    28. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by SScorpio · · Score: 1

      It's not the house that's expensive in the Bay Area. It's the land.

    29. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by quantumghost · · Score: 1

      Or more likely there is only so much room to fit people in the Bay Area

      Ummm, no. More likely this is another bubble, and we're seeing the first signs its going to pop. How many of these "businesses" that sell "free" products are actually turning a profit? And how many are just waiting to be bought out? Sound familiar? It's the tech version of flipping houses.

    30. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 2

      I grew up in the suburbs. What exactly I miss? I lived on the literal border of all the wilderness I could handle (lifelong avid hiker) and a 65c bus ride to downtown, grocery store 200m away, 15 minute walk to the movie theater and mall and a 20 minute bike ride to the amphitheater where I saw some big name bands. Also had a big yard with a huge vegetable garden.

    31. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      They have lot's of trains to get into the city. And traffic is not that bad

    32. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Solandri · · Score: 1

      The overall tax rate is actually higher in Illinois than in California (for the average citizen). California has higher income and sales taxes, but Illinois has substantially higher property taxes, placing its overall tax burden just above California. The rankings change a bit if you include local taxes (county and city), but Illinois still taxes more than California.

    33. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have lot's of trains to get into the city. And traffic is not that bad

      Although the trains run at all hours, they are only "safe" during commute hours. Also, don't take the trains to the south side (past University of Chicago)...

    34. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      So your point is that s/he could escape very quickly and very often?

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    35. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by tom_bkpk · · Score: 1

      Bullshit, the trains are fine ... even the 2am "vomit commit".

    36. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A 4 bedroom 2000 sq ft house with basement in TN. Taxes $1,500-2000/yr. My 4 bedroom in the far north Burbs was $8K! Probably more now.

      Fuel, sales tax, traffic. Good riddance

      Sales tax? And you moved to Tennessee, with its 9.45% average sales tax rate?

    37. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I grew up in the suburbs. What exactly I miss? I lived on the literal border of all the wilderness I could handle (lifelong avid hiker) and a 65c bus ride to downtown, grocery store 200m away, 15 minute walk to the movie theater and mall and a 20 minute bike ride to the amphitheater where I saw some big name bands. Also had a big yard with a huge vegetable garden.

      City dwelling hipsters think that eating lunch at a couple ethnic restaurants every week somehow makes them "worldly".

    38. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Derec01 · · Score: 1

      IIRC an average of 3 people/year die in Chicago from ice falling off buildings. You can have it.

      Three people per year is a rounding error. Do you really consider that an argument against Chicago? Because that makes me statistically feel much better about it!

    39. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 2

      I looked at buying a place in one of the western Chicago suburbs a few years ago and the high taxes really surprised me. They were around $6,000 to $7,000 per year, almost double what you'd pay in the city.

      I've been renting my place on the south-side of Chicago for almost 10 years and pay $1,100 per month for a nice 3-bedroom place in a two-flat with a high ceiling, skylights and a third-floor addition. I've got a small backyard, a covered garage spot and plenty of street parking.

      I thought I wanted my own place, but not after seeing what I'd have to pay for taxes or, God forbid, an HOA.

    40. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Plenty of good Italian beef places and more here in Aurora and Naperville.

      Aurora and Naperville might as well be Kentucky.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    41. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      In seriousness... I left Chicago for L.A., now in Atlanta.

      Atlanta is nice.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    42. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      God damn that is a blatant racist dog whistle. I guess it's OK to be racist if you're a liberal?

      Racist against whom? Chicago has black suburbs and white suburbs. They're both suburbs.

      Me, I like places that have sidewalks, but you'd probably say that makes me a racist, too.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    43. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God damn that is a blatant racist dog whistle. I guess it's OK to be racist if you're a liberal?

      What are you implying? That minorities don't live in the suburbs?

      The racist person here is you.

    44. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surveillance cameras in every bus and train and train station have made the CTA safe and graffiti-free.

    45. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by ranton · · Score: 1

      Clearly the decline in population for the last few years in IL; I'd say a majority of people disagree with you.

      Agreed. Regardless of what most people say, they would rather take a larger house for cheaper than give their kids the best education they can afford. Where I live $500k will get you a 2600 sq ft house in the best school district or a 4000 sq ft house in the much weaker school districts 5-10 miles away. Many people prioritize their three car garage over their kids' education. But that is what makes the best school districts the best; they have better parents. Combine parents who value education with a high tax base and you have the primary building blocks of great schools.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    46. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kentucky is over 8 hours to the south of Chicago, not 45 miles outside of the Chicago Loop. You're not even approaching "rural" at that distance from downtown these days. Sounds like you've been gone for a very, very long time and have no clue what the greater Chicago area is even like anymore.

    47. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      I like to tell recruiters and head hunters out there and also on the east coast that they can't afford me. They like to respond that the pay is very generous and I tell them that I am not taking a decrease in my standard of living so unless I can afford a ~2000 sq ft house on a .5 acre lot that backs up to a 14 acre wooded park where my children will be going to some of the best schools in the state that will be paid off in 9 years and I have a commute that is at most 40 minutes all while owning a multi acre lake property that is within a 2.25 hour drive that has 210 feet of shore line on a lake without a public water access that is owned outright all while saving close to 30% of my post tax income I'm not interested. Their response is that such a place doesn't exist and I tell them that it does but they won't pay me enough to afford it out there.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    48. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bingo. There is a fixed supply of social twit messaging dumbasses, and the well's run dry.

    49. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And a he/she. :(

    50. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Kentucky is over 8 hours to the south of Chicago, not 45 miles outside of the Chicago Loop.

      You've never been to Naperville.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    51. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken by a shameless supporter of Jeff Sessions... and the Trump administration.

      From your own message history: "Sessions? The same Sessions who got an award from the NAACP for breaking up the KKK? Racist? I'm getting cognitive dissonance here."

      Go screw yourself!

    52. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      It's more than die from droughts, forest fires and mudslides in all of CA (obviously, in an average year). You'd have to go back pretty far for earthquake casualties to get there, if you include the great SF earthquake, you should include the Chicago fire for fair comparisons.

      Then we can get into which city has the most corrupt police in the nation. LA doesn't hold a candle to Chicago or New Orleans in that respect.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    53. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really don't understand how you guys manage it. I make a seven figure salary and can't make ends meet. Specifically it's $12,000.99 a year and after housing and food there's nothing left. What does your budget look like?

    54. Re: Let's Face the Facts... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Out of interest, do you intentionally not understand what "racist" means or are you genuinely confused?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    55. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't take a job in the Bay Area for even a $100k/yr raise, since my comfortable six figure salary in the Chicago suburbs gives me a 2500 sq ft house with a nice yard and public schools that rival the best private schools.

      Yep me either. I get calls and emails all the time for jobs there but why would I move and pay $2000 a month to live in a card board box when I can sit in the North Georgia mountains and work and pay $500 a month for a two bedroom cabin in the mountains. I always laugh at the Head hunter and say "you've got to be kidding."

    56. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kentucky is over 8 hours to the south of Chicago, not 45 miles outside of the Chicago Loop.

      You've never been to Naperville.

      Not to Naperville, KY, that's for sure. Naperville, IL I go through every day.

    57. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      We call it, "Napertucky". If you drive through every day, you know very well that's true.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    58. Re:Let's Face the Facts... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The high price of everything is not much different now than half a century ago, so I guess there's more to it than that. I was a headhunter in the late '70s & 80's. One of the last placements I had all but done: A veep of engineering in a great company, for $150 K more $$ and huge stock options. It fell thru when the guy checked out the prices to replace his "lodge-like house" on timbered acreage and several hundreds of feet of lake frontage. He stayed home, near Seattle.

  2. Talent shortage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They ran out of cheap H1B's to hire.

    1. Re:Talent shortage by computational+super · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, they'll raise the cap again.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
  3. The internet is a thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's 2017, and you're a technology company, no, I will not move to the Bay Area.

    1. Re:The internet is a thing by Salgak1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Add to that, get asked to move to the Bay Area, and not get offered a pay raise. OR Relocation.

      A former colleague of mine got offered a job as a subcontractor at Apple. She sold her 4-BR house, and most of the furniture, and gave her dog away. . . for enough money to rent a BEDROOM. . . .

      Pass. . .

    2. Re:The internet is a thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      she gave her dog away...? She deserves worse.

    3. Re:The internet is a thing by aicrules · · Score: 1

      why on earth did she accept?

    4. Re:The internet is a thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As someone who got offered a job at Apple (and accepted). I got paid my entire moving expenses, including moving all of my furniture across the Atlantic, plus stipends to re-acquire things like cars and electrical goods that weren't appropriate for moving to the US.

      I call bullshit on your story for that reason.

    5. Re:The internet is a thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "subcontractor"

    6. Re:The internet is a thing by HaZardman27 · · Score: 1

      A former colleague of mine got offered a job as a subcontractor at Apple

      Probably not being given the full Apple Treatment.

      --
      Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
    7. Re:The internet is a thing by Salgak1 · · Score: 2

      I know. That right there would have killed the deal. But, apparently, the job was "sexy". Not that she kept it for long. She's gone through 6 jobs since then (less than 2 years ago), and, at least from her LinkedIn, returned "home". . .

    8. Re:The internet is a thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But without a Bay Area address, how are the founders going to get enough VC money to be noticed by the big fish, get bought out, and lay you off?

  4. Hit peak? by TWX · · Score: 1

    The problem when any one area becomes really hot like the Bay Area has over the last thirty years is that it reaches a point when increasing costs outstrip even the lucrative pay and entertainment options. This becomes especially true as one gets a little older and the demands of family make indulging in those entertainment options impossible or at least difficult.

    That's before you even factor in those now-established employers turning to look inward to figure out what they can do to reduce costs, and paying the salaries required to live some place like San Francisco, and paying for the real estate to have operations there will be up for consideration. Datacenters can be just about anywhere, and if operations are established in places that are not so expensive, like Cisco is pursuing with their TAC in Raleigh, NC, then they can reduce corporate costs.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:Hit peak? by xtal · · Score: 2

      Perhaps people are realizing when your market is global, you don't necessary have to be in the Bay area to develop; indeed, when you consider overheads, it seems silly, as there's good programmers everywhere.

      --
      ..don't panic
    2. Re:Hit peak? by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Perhaps people are realizing when your market is global, you don't necessary have to be in the Bay area to develop; indeed, when you consider overheads, it seems silly, as there's good programmers everywhere.

      The only reason companies stay in the Bay area is because of connections and the ability to quickly find venture capital. If that wasn't an issue you wouldn't see this going on at all.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    3. Re: Hit peak? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      true but it is a hub and where people in that indestry what to be to get with. kind of like hollywood for that indestry.

    4. Re:Hit peak? by TWX · · Score: 1

      I've been to SF before, it's a very fun city, especially if you're single and have money. That's what attracts people there. Unfortunately the more people with money that show up, the more expensive it gets and the more money you need in order to qualify.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    5. Re: Hit peak? by thomn8r · · Score: 1

      FWIW, Hollywood is losing its place as the movie capitol of the world; their lunch is being aggressively consumed by lower-cost geographies.

    6. Re:Hit peak? by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Too high of a concentration of anything is a cancer. I used to live in San Francisco, now I am in one of the southern California beach cities. I missed The City for a while... it is(/was) nice being in a place with soul... but I am sad to see just how much high tech jobs and money is moving into this area. I also look at various places in the midwest suffering brain drain, and it is easy to see that things must change for a sustainable future.

      When you are looking at rent of $1,000/month per employee for office space, a lot of other locations start to make sense. From the employee side there is a time lag, but the employer can see their bottom line pretty quickly.

    7. Re:Hit peak? by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      There are other reasons. Only about two years ago, I spoke to someone who had just moved his startup from Austin to the Bay Area. This is someone who has profitably exited several startups, so he has some credibility.

      His reason to move: in Austin, he can't find employees who can afford to work for little to no salary while the startup bootstraps itself. In the Bay Area, there are larger numbers of people who are both inclined to take a risk and wealthy enough to afford it.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    8. Re: Hit peak? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmmm. Not true. These films still have Hollywood actors. Maybe your non mainstream hippy web cam films?

    9. Re: Hit peak? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This was true 4 or 5 years ago, but LA got its shit together and realized losing the Movie Industry would be bad for LA. They started offering real incentives and made LA pro-industry again and there's huge amounts of shit being done here again. All of my industry friends are working so much they have difficulties fitting in life/family.

    10. Re: Hit peak? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still, many companies moving the Portland. They all compete for the vastly smaller talent pool. Then salaries got up again.

      I know for a fact from opening companies, the only reason why these companies are in this area is because of the talent pool. You'll always be able to hire whoever you need in a short amount of time. There is no other place in the country you can do that.

    11. Re:Hit peak? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Basically the non-technical stuff, i.e. networking, unfair favors, monopoly, sharing IP, MBA stuff.

      It's all about the quick buck in the SV nowadays. When there's a boom, there's a BUST. The above report is not news.

    12. Re: Hit peak? by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 1

      Indeed. Here in Atlanta we have a number of studios now, including Pinewood Atlanta, where several of the Marvel universe films were/are being made (Infinity War just started filming).

    13. Re: Hit peak? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "capital". A "Capitol" (with capital C) is a building, typically in a capital. Next, we'll learn the difference between populace and populous.

  5. cost of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Studios, 1, 2 bedroom apts are ~$2000, $2500, $3000 respectively. Rooms are $1000-1500/mo.

    1. Re:cost of housing by knightghost · · Score: 3

      My 2700 sqft house on a quarter acre with unlimited free water costs $500/month in Idaho - only a 2 hour flight away from SoCal and 1 time zone.
      I also have 5 acres of forest overlooking a large lake a couple hours away - $150/month.

      SV and others need to expand to nearby cities.

    2. Re:cost of housing by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

      My 475-sft studio apartment in San Jose is $1466 per month. I only make $50K+ per year as an IT support technician.

    3. Re:cost of housing by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 3

      SV and others need to expand to nearby cities.

      The exodus is already on for Silicon Valley as people flee to nearby regions. I'm hoping to transfer to the Sacramento Valley this summer. For what I pay for a studio apartment in Silicon Valley, I could get a three-bedroom apartment in Sacramento. Unfortunately, real estate prices are starting to spike there as well.

    4. Re:cost of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My 475-sft studio apartment in San Jose is $1466 per month. I only make $50K+ per year as an IT support technician.

      That's more than what I pay for a 1600 sq. ft. house on a wooded half-acre in the Chicago suburbs. I also make more than 150% of your salary here as well.

    5. Re:cost of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Studios, 1, 2 bedroom apts are ~$2000, $2500, $3000 respectively. Rooms are $1000-1500/mo.

      For a comparison, my 2700 sq ft 3 bedroom, 2.,5 house (2200 sq ft main structure with a 500 sq ft apartment over the detached garage) on a 9000 sq ft lot costs me $1800 (that's with taxes and homeowner's insurance baked in for a fair comparison) in the Houston suburbs.

      Yea, the weather is shit here, but the decision is STILL easy.

    6. Re:cost of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sacramento Valley

      Unfortunately, real estate prices are starting to spike there as well.

      And it's Sacramento.

      A person can almost make a coherent argument for being boned from behind with no lube in the Bay Area, but why in the nine hells would you pay inflated prices to live in Sacramento?

    7. Re:cost of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My mortgage on a 4-bedroom house in the Sacramento area is a little over $900/month, and I make twice what you're making in San Jose. You're either underpaid, or need to move.

    8. Re:cost of housing by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      As others have said anywhere outside the big cities that would be a mortgage on a million dollar home.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    9. Re: cost of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eh you don't really want that either. As they sell off their stakes in their homes back in CA, they have so much in equity (or just saved cash) that they can outright buy properties everywhere else in the country. If there is one cool and cheap area to congregate too it's going to quickly become unaffordable - case in point: Austin, TX.

    10. Re:cost of housing by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      When I worked as a tech at UCSF in the late '70s I was paying $250 / month for a room in a large Victorian, a block from the hospital. Bog knows what the place is going for now.

      Time and inflation. Amazing concepts.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    11. Re:cost of housing by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      My mortgage on a 4-bedroom house in the Sacramento area is a little over $900/month [...]

      I've noticed that a mortgage cost less than renting in Sacramento.

      You're either underpaid, or need to move.

      I work in government IT and $50K+ is the national average for IT support techs. I got a lot of hemming and hawing when I requested a cost of living adjustment for Silicon Valley. If everything works out, I'll be moving to Sacramento this summer. After I get my InfoSec certifications, my next job should put me in the six-figure pay range.

    12. Re:cost of housing by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      A person can almost make a coherent argument for being boned from behind with no lube in the Bay Area, but why in the nine hells would you pay inflated prices to live in Sacramento?

      My parents retired there in the 1990's and I know the area well. I'll probably move to North Highlands, which is above the floodplain and below the snowline, and still affordable.

    13. Re:cost of housing by geek · · Score: 1

      My 2700 sqft house on a quarter acre with unlimited free water costs $500/month in Idaho - only a 2 hour flight away from SoCal and 1 time zone.
      I also have 5 acres of forest overlooking a large lake a couple hours away - $150/month.

      SV and others need to expand to nearby cities.

      QFT. I moved to Idaho 8 years ago and will never go back. The amount I save on cost of living alone will mean the difference between retiring comfortably or not at all. I truly do not understand why people continue to work and live in SV. The one industry on Earth where you truly do not need to live where you work and they continue to flock like lemmings to the same horrible area.

    14. Re:cost of housing by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      That's more than what I pay for a 1600 sq. ft. house on a wooded half-acre in the Chicago suburbs. I also make more than 150% of your salary here as well.

      So what? I was born and raised in Silicon Valley when it still had orchards, canneries were the largest employers, and everyone else worked in THE CITY (San Francisco). If I wanted to freeze my ass off every winter, I would move up to Idaho to be with the rest of my extended family.

    15. Re:cost of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well since we are sharing...

      3200 sqft, 5 bed,3.5 bath w/ pool on 4 acres is $1300 in MN.

      I'm a little over 30 minutes from work on a normal day and under an hour from MSP airport, and flights to either coast aren't awful. If I wanted to switch jobs I know I could get one that was around 15 minutes, or switch to something downtown and take the train for 30 minutes instead of driving.

      A few weeks in winter can really suck, but otherwise I like the weather...but I grew up in the midwest so it might be an acquired taste.

    16. Re:cost of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's more than what I pay for a 1600 sq. ft. house on a wooded half-acre in the Chicago suburbs. I also make more than 150% of your salary here as well.

      So what? I was born and raised in Silicon Valley when it still had orchards, canneries were the largest employers, and everyone else worked in THE CITY (San Francisco). If I wanted to freeze my ass off every winter, I would move up to Idaho to be with the rest of my extended family.

      You're the one who's acting proud to be overpaying on their living space while being underpaid.

    17. Re:cost of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stay away from Portland, we already got growth problems.

    18. Re:cost of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I often look at country living in "unpopular" states but internet is always a problem.

      I need to be able to upload and download 300-400 meg files daily to do my work. That means I can't run into caps, frequent downtime, or snail speeds. I can already do my job entirely at home and work from anywhere in the US but I have to have a decent internet connection.

      I looked at the Seattle area one time and laughed - $250+ k for a moldy shack in an area with earthquakes.

      Is the internet where you are potato? If not, can you give a general vicinity?

    19. Re:cost of housing by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      You're the one who's acting proud to be overpaying on their living space while being underpaid.

      Thanks to rent control and living in my studio apartment for nearly 12 years, I'm actually underpaying market rate by $300 per month.

      [...] while being underpaid.

      As an IT support technician (a.k.a., virtual ditch digger), $50K+ is the top of the pay scale. Once I get my InfoSec certification, I'll be making $100K in my next job. However, by living a modest lifestyle, I can live in Silicon Valley without making $100K+ per year.

    20. Re:cost of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I pay that for a 2000sq ft house in Minneapolis. My TV room is bigger than 475sq ft. I have a tax write off and equity. Sucker...

    21. Re:cost of housing by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      To be fair I and many others probably couldn't imagine worse. I actually own a 2200sqft house on a relatively large properly. I lived in it for a few years and now I rent it out and instead live in a sub 1000sqft apartment in a citycentre. It's a lifestyle choice. Money isn't in the equation here, it would have made more financial sense to stay in the house.

      But people can rapidly get addicted to the city lifestyle to the point where room sharing is not a financial necessity but also a life goal.

      I must say I do miss the old place occasionally. I had my own observatory in the backyard and spent my nights looking at stars. Now I spend it running around the inner city surrounded by people.

    22. Re:cost of housing by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I pay that for a 2000sq ft house in Minneapolis. My TV room is bigger than 475sq ft. I have a tax write off and equity. Sucker...

      That's nothing. My brother's in-laws bought a $1M house in Gilroy with a wet bar bigger than my kitchen and a kitchen bigger than my apartment. So obscene. The mountain lion behind the 20-foot-tall wired fence was cool.

    23. Re:cost of housing by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Inflated is relative.

      Sacramento, at least, isn't full of Bay Aryans. Except downtown of course, which is full of want to be Bay Aryans.

      Sac is about as close to the bay area as anybody with sense would get. It's not like we aren't familiar with the hell hole.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    24. Re: cost of housing by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      'cool and cheap...Austin'. When was that? Being cooler than the rest of Texas _isn't_ good enough.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    25. Re:cost of housing by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      20 years ago 3M hired about 100 CA engineers and tracked them. At the end of the second winter they had 1 left, he was from there originally.

      3M doesn't even try to hire CA engineers anymore.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    26. Re:cost of housing by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Sacramento valley? Yes, it may be cheaper, but, then you have to live in the Sacramento Valley.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    27. Re:cost of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $1M house in Gilroy, what's that, 750 sq ft and no garage?

    28. Re:cost of housing by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      $1M house in Gilroy, what's that, 750 sq ft and no garage?

      Five bedrooms, 3K- to 4K-sft and three-car garage. Lot size is from a little to a lot.

      http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/Gilroy_CA/beds-5-5

    29. Re:cost of housing by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 1

      Kind of begs the question as to why you want to live in Silicon Valley? You could move to a place with a lot of tech jobs like Chicago, make more money and have a lower cost of living. Yeah, the winters can suck, but it's not bad with the right gear.

      I pay $1,100 for a two-level place with 3-bedrooms, high ceilings, skylights, and a covered garage spot. There's plenty of street parking in the neighborhood, I can catch the bus less than a half-block away and it takes me about 30 minutes to get to work.

    30. Re:cost of housing by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Kind of begs the question as to why you want to live in Silicon Valley?

      Born and raised here. Used to have family here. Will probably move to Sacramento Valley this summer.

      I can catch the bus less than a half-block away and it takes me about 30 minutes to get to work.

      Two local busses and an express bus takes me from the doorstep of my apartment to the doorstep of my job 30 miles away in 60 minutes.

    31. Re:cost of housing by ItsJustAPseudonym · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, real estate prices are starting to spike there as well.

      A friend of mine (who is not an engineer) says "engineers spoil everything".

    32. Re:cost of housing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      60 min commute.... one way... I thought my 20 min one was bad...

      Sigh...California.. The most overrated place on earth

    33. Re:cost of housing by Nethead · · Score: 1

      I hear it, I'm in a native fishing village in Washington with a 7 mile commute to my aerospace IT job. Paying a bit more than you but well under $1000/mo for lease and utilities, 2300 sqft and sound view a block off the water. I won't think of taking a job south of Everett.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
  6. This is a lie! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is a critical shortage of programmers even though there are 10000 universities in the US churning out debt, er, I mean, highly educated smart people!

    1. Re:This is a lie! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone who conducts interviews, there is a shortage of programmers that are actually useful. I would prefer that we could beat some sense into the locals.

    2. Re:This is a lie! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      You want to pay someone $60K for an 60-80 hour week in the bay area and can't find anyone to fill that roll!

    3. Re:This is a lie! by computational+super · · Score: 1

      I recently got an e-mail from a recruiter who was offering $80K for a position that required a master's degree and 5+ years of experience. In New York City.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    4. Re:This is a lie! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A filled roll sounds delicious right about now. You meant "role". I have a hard time taking your posts seriously because you often can't spell.

  7. The answer is obvious... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 4, Funny

    There's a shortage of tech workers to hire. Industry must have increased H1B caps!

    --
    That is all.
    1. Re:The answer is obvious... by thunderclees · · Score: 0

      Ban H1Bs completely, we do not need visa maggots in the US.

    2. Re:The answer is obvious... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hell yes. Visa maggots is now in my lexicon.

  8. H1B by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They're realizing that they can't keep importing indentured servants. The 21st century's Big Cotton is collapsing.

  9. VCs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is venture capital all over the country - World actually. But they are sane and it's going to be real hard to get some putz to hand you a hundred million dollars for five percent of your startup that has just an app and no plan for revenue generation aside from "selling ads".

    After seeing some of the deals out there, I can see why there are all those signs beside streams that say don't drink the water. There must be some sort of hallucinogenic in the water. "This water is good! What? A billion dollars for your lawn mowing app! Sure!!"

    1. Re:VCs by ctilsie242 · · Score: 1

      That is the issue. VCs don't want anything but the tried and true. If the app slings ads, and it slurps up data to be sold for analytics, -boom- it gets funded. If your app actually does something useful, it won't. Look at the Meitu app as an example of the what is the Holy Grail of what is wanted by the VC people.

  10. People are tired of living in their cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The word has gotten out that you can live a nice life on the east coast, or live like a king in the midwest...but on the west coast, all your money goes towards cost of living.

  11. What are locals saying? by randomErr · · Score: 5, Interesting
    I read through the comments local people are saying:
    • * Lay-off / Buy Out older workers to hire lower pay college graduates
    • * Hiring H1B Workers
    • * Redundant technology with smaller similar companies merging into larger companies - Social Networks, photo, video. and texting applications and websites
    • * Off-shoring jobs
    --
    You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
  12. LinkedIn can't be wrong... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Funny

    LinkedIn says there are 100,000+ tech jobs available in the San Francisco Bay Area.

    1. Re:LinkedIn can't be wrong... by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      LinkedIn says there are 100,000+ tech jobs available in the San Francisco Bay Area.

      LinkedIn endorses me for several languages and skills I've never learned.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:LinkedIn can't be wrong... by nickovs · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The two facts are not at necessarily odds with each other. The reporting is on the number of people employed; LinkedIn tells you the number of open vacancies. The problem is that with the housing capacity tapped out and the cost of living through the roof it is becoming increasingly hard to fill the jobs that exist, so hiring is slowing down. Cities in the Bay Area from San Mateo to Sunnyvale have been building office space faster than they have been building homes and is this is the result.

      --
      If intelligent life is too complex to evolve on its own, who designed God?
  13. Most Programing/Tech Jobs Aren't in Silicon Valley by Kagato · · Score: 1

    There seems to be this idea that Silicon Valley is the center of all things tech. It really only accounts for a tiny fraction of the Tech labor force. What makes it "special" is the access to venture capital. If you had a big idea and wanted to be the next Facebook or Instagram sure, Silicon Valley might be for you. If you want to be a computer programer you could stay in any big Midwest City, make $150K (Full Time W2)/200+K (1099 Contract), and pay less than $1000/mo for home mortgage.

  14. Dump H1B by p51d007 · · Score: 3

    Dump some of the H1B visas, send those people back to where they came from, hire U.S. citizens at a good wage. The other issue is there are too many "startups" that do nothing but drain money. They don't PRODUCE anything.

    1. Re:Dump H1B by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      How many "tech" companies, startup or otherwise, in the bay area are "producing" anything? And where do you draw the line anyway?

      I hear how instagram is this amazing success story, but it's fucking picture sharing. Facebook, Twitter? They're good ways to kill a few minutes and I understand they've made a lot of money for a few people. And sure, not everything needs to be getting flying cars and curing cancer.

      Google might be making self-driving cars that could stop a lot of road deaths. Tesla is making cars that I hear are better and also Musk is launching rockets. Those seem like producing stuff. But I can't think of many more examples of unambigously "producing" stuff.

      Just seems weird to draw the line at startups. I see a lot of companies in the bay area and everywhere else that could fall off the face of the earth and nothing of value would be lost.

    2. Re:Dump H1B by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry Mr. Aldrin. You might not see us get to Mars, but we'll get there someday. Promise!

    3. Re:Dump H1B by Herkum01 · · Score: 1

      I don't see the problem with crappy startups. They are like a parasite sucking money from venture capitalists, it creates jobs, even if they are just crappy ones.

    4. Re:Dump H1B by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And ban muslims from entering US. We're just fine without them.

    5. Re:Dump H1B by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FB is easy to explain, data mining and advertising and invasion of privacy by three-letter acronyms. Not sure about Twitter's or Instagram's corporate value.

    6. Re:Dump H1B by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      you could say the same of most of the comforts of life including the internet and personal computers and smart phones...just conveniences we don't need in the absolute sense.

      economy is made of many such things. since I'm old I know most of what we have isn't "necessary". I spent more than half my life without cell phone, electronic ignition and fuel injection, microwave oven, etc.......but man am I glad for such things and if you want to take them from me I'll fight you 8D

  15. more american idiocy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't you know that growth has limits? Infinite growth is.. well, cancer.

    1. Re:more american idiocy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it get really bad when it becomes malignant and spreads to other areas.

  16. Re:Most Programing/Tech Jobs Aren't in Silicon Val by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    I know! I know!

    A venture capital app.

    Or is that recursive?

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  17. Who cares by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    Even if they were to hire more people it would be from outside the country. Whether hiring stalls or is accelerating it doesn't make a difference to americans.

    1. Re:Who cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed. Meanwhile tech companies and their people are bitching and moaning about travel bans with countries they don't hire from, as if a lack of Syrian immigrants some huge big impediment to their business. The problems of Google and Apple are falling on deaf ears; make your phones, serve your ads, enjoy your billions and fuck off; this isn't your nation to order as you will.

  18. Bad analogy by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

    chugs along more like a family SUV.

    Obviously the author has not seen how "family" SUVs are driven. I can assure you, they do not chug along. More like, "Prepare for ramming speed!"

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  19. Remote Work by VadgeTheDestroyer · · Score: 1

    I'm seeing more and more tech companies that are headquartered in the Bay Area, and hiring mostly remote workers. With the right kind of team leader, and the right workers, a remote team can be nearly as effective as an in-house team, and costs are not as high. I wonder if these stats are skewed by remote workers, since they are technically not in the "Bay Area", even though the HQ may be?

  20. SF is Magic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SF is is a truly magical place.
    I love being there to visit, but could never move there. cost of living is too crazy.

    1. Re:SF is Magic by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      It's not really so bad. To put it into perspective, cops and firefighters make $120k-$130k, more if they move up in the ranks. Cops get a lot of overtime and make a little extra money that way. Firefighters tend to have some kind of side business because they get a fair amount of time off. (Just about anything from working as a handyman to writing mobile apps). Median home price in some places might be $800k+, but 20 miles away you can find areas that are closer to $600k median and with a pretty large range. There are enough places that can be had for $400k here that maybe just need a little TLC and their school district is not the highest rated.
      Rentals went up fast in SF, rents are in the same ballpark as a mortgage. SF is around $3k, Daly City and Pacifica are around $2.5k, Oakland is around $2.7k, etc. There are still decent apartments for under $2k/mo if you're willing to move further down the peninsula. Most of these cities have a median income of around $105k/yr, obvious there are a lot of people who make quite a bit less than that.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  21. The Bay Area by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Bay Area is for queers. Many of them, I assume, are decent people.

  22. The bloom is off the economic boom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sell Sell Sell!

  23. Only 3%: places in the Rust Belt would love it by Streetlight · · Score: 1

    I think my subject text says it all. I live on the Front Range of Colorado and the place is growing like crazy, as I think we're taking some of the overflow from the Silicon Valley. There's plenty of land to accommodate the growth but home builders are way behind in meeting the need.

    --
    In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
    1. Re:Only 3%: places in the Rust Belt would love it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > home builders are way behind

      It will be like this forever everywhere. It lets the home builders charge top dollar by creating an artificially scarce resource. Same reason real estate agents push house prices up, so they can get a tiny bigger slice of that selling price.

    2. Re:Only 3%: places in the Rust Belt would love it by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      One of my wife's uncles lives out in the front range on 40 acres that has been in the family for generations. The problem with Californians is that they move out into the country and then bitch because there are country people out there who do country things, although this isn't limited to just Californians but seems to be urban people moving to rural areas. For my wife's uncle it is that he hunts from his back porch and has had the cops called on him because someone saw a person with a gun, for my neighbor's brother who raises hogs it is former city people complaining about the smell. Even last summer when a bunch of out of town relatives came to visit and we went up to my lake place all of the Californians flipped out because I carry a magnum class revolver when I am up there. The fact that carrying a gun is prudent in some areas because of large predators is lost on them. Everyone up there does for the same reason, the locals have had bears with cubs walking down their driveways, had the wolves run through their property, and a good number have seen the cougar that roams around there. Those relatives have never seen someone who isn't a police officer with a gun in real life and the only portrayal of non-police officers with guns has been from the movies or the local news. So naturally they believe that the gun will fire at any time if you so much as look at it the wrong way and that anyone who owns a handgun is either a want to be Dirty Harry or gang banger.

      --
      Time to offend someone
  24. Front Range by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I got outta there years ago.The once beautiful place has succumbed to the burnout marijuana smokers from California who brought their sprawl, traffic, and high cost of living with them.

  25. It's your fault America by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    This is what happens when you don't buy your family new iPhones every year. You should feel ashamed, don't you know that a lot of us have 7 figure mortgages to pay?

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  26. Thanks Obama by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Spend all those billions trying to get SHillary elected and now we might lose out cheap H1B slave labor...