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Iron Age Potters Accidentally Recorded the Strength of Earth's Magnetic Field (npr.org)

Solandri writes: We've only been able to measure the Earth's magnetic field strength for about two centuries. During this time, there has been a gradual decline in the field strength. In recent years, the rate of decline seems to be accelerating, leading to some speculation that the Earth may be losing its magnetic field -- a catastrophic possibility since the magnetic field is what protects life on Earth from dangerous solar radiation. Ferromagnetic particles in rocks provide a long-term history which tells us the poles have flipped numerous times. But uncertainties in dating the rocks prevents their use in understanding decade-scale magnetic field fluctuations.

Now a group of archeologists and geophysicists have come up with a novel way to produce decade-scale temporal measurements of the Earth's magnetic field strength from before the invention of the magnetometer. When iron-age potters fired their pottery in a kiln to harden it, it loosened tiny ferromagnetic particles in the clay. As the pottery cooled and these particles hardened, it captured a snapshot of the Earth's magnetic field. Crucially, the governments of that time required pottery used to collect taxed goods (e.g. a portion of olive oil sold) to be stamped with a royal seal. These seals changed over time as new kings ascended, or governments were completely replaced after invasion. Thus by cross-referencing the magnetic particles in the pottery with the seals, researchers were able to piece together a history of the Earth's magnetic field strength spanning from the 8th century BCE to the 2nd century BCE. Their findings show that large fluctuations in the strength of the magnetic field over a span of decades are normal.
The study has been published in the journal PNAS.

81 of 118 comments (clear)

  1. Ingenuity ftw by Virtual_Raider · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From TFA: ''' "When dealing with such large-scale phenomena, we don't usually think it can occur within a few decades. We usually think it would take thousands or tens of thousands of years," Forman says. The finding, he adds, "opens up a big can of worms" because researchers just don't know how or why that would happen. So there's something missing about scientists' concept of goings on in the Earth's core.''' But hey, at least now we know we don't know :)

    --
    +Raider of the lost BBS
    1. Re:Ingenuity ftw by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      Can we get the same data from lavas? Lava has flowed in any given year of Earth's history.

    2. Re:Ingenuity ftw by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure, but how do you date when it cooled?

    3. Re:Ingenuity ftw by muecksteiner · · Score: 1

      For at least some of them: by the magnetisation they have?

      Before you moderate this as stupid circular reasoning - consider that you could, at least conceivably, pull a tree-ring like stunt here. For some layers, you might be able to determine the date, via these pottery artefacts. And you might be able to interpolate the others from these data points.

      "Might" is of course a very important qualifier here.

    4. Re:Ingenuity ftw by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Rocks are dated by radiometry, looking at combinations of unstable isotopes that are appropriate to the type of rock.

    5. Re:Ingenuity ftw by tsa · · Score: 1

      It's now a known unknown.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    6. Re:Ingenuity ftw by bondsbw · · Score: 1

      If nothing else, doing so could help confirm that the fluctuations found in the clay are due to the earth's magnetic field.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    7. Re:Ingenuity ftw by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      Come on, it is just one day after the Valentine's Day and already your date has cooled and has become undatable?

      Buy some more candy, flowers and keep at it man. Don't give up so easily. Nothing is cooled permanently and nothing ever reaches absolute zero.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    8. Re:Ingenuity ftw by SpaceAmoeba · · Score: 1

      Can we get the same data from lavas? Lava has flowed in any given year of Earth's history.

      You can and geologists have done this (like along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge). But radiometric dating is not precise enough to give "decade-scale" data. The purpose of this study is to see how much fluctuation occurs on short time scales (as opposed to thousands or millions of years).

    9. Re:Ingenuity ftw by rcamans · · Score: 1

      Uh, we always knew we didn't know. But PhD's must profess absolute certainty in their publication and pronouncements, or they lose funding and standing.
      So they always communicate like they know.

      --
      wake up and hold your nose
    10. Re: Ingenuity ftw by rcamans · · Score: 1

      No, Courage is a cartoon dog.

      --
      wake up and hold your nose
    11. Re:Ingenuity ftw by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      They know what they did and what it means. Scientific papers (at least the ones I've seen) tend to be fairly explicit about what is and what is not known, often listing the latter under a heading like future research possibilities or some such.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    12. Re:Ingenuity ftw by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Rocks are dated by radiometry

      There's at least one professional geologist in this conversation. That geologist thinks that almost always, rocks are dated by correlation of either fossil content, or stratigraphical arguments to rocks that have better fossil suites than your target rocks.

      Sure, radiometric dating may give you an answer - to which question : the age of the sediment grains (as if they might not differ by a couple of billion years between the quartz and the feldspars) ; or the age of the minerals deposited in the original pore space of the rock (up to hundreds of millions of years after the sediment was deposited) ; or minerals formed in weathering of the original cement over the last few tens of millions of years.

      Quoth [physics Nobel] John Wheeler, "not even wrong".

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    13. Re:Ingenuity ftw by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Actually, there have been a couple of cases where the decades-to-centuries cooling duration of lava intrusions (less variable than lava flows ; more accurately modelled) has suggested that reversals can take place in the decades or so time scale ... but they were single dat points. This method looks considerably more scalable.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  2. Begs the question... by Narcocide · · Score: 1

    How do we boost the strength far enough to eliminate cancer?

    1. Re:Begs the question... by dwywit · · Score: 1, Troll

      *Raises the question

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
    2. Re:Begs the question... by quantumghost · · Score: 4, Informative

      How do we boost the strength far enough to eliminate cancer?

      In short: you can't. Cosmic radiation is just a small part of the complex system that can trigger cancer. Other aspects include: genetic make-up, environment (carcinogens) and the inherent error rate in the DNA copying machinery (missense, frameshifts, slippage, etc) [to name a few off the top of my head - I don't treat cancer]. And before you go down there....those imperfect copies are what leads to genetic variation (important to fend off predators both macro and microscopic) and evolution. Cancer is just about inevitable in any DNA based system

    3. Re: Begs the question... by greenfruitsalad · · Score: 2

      We send aaron eckhart with hillary swank and a small nuke in a giant metal dildo underground to give the core a boost. Haven't you seen the documentary? It's been done before.

    4. Re:Begs the question... by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      Okay, fair point but I just meant "how can we eliminate that source of cancer?" As a follow-up question, would it retard photosynthesis or any other critical biological processes?

    5. Re:Begs the question... by WhiplashII · · Score: 1

      Actually, this is backwards. Cancer risk decreases for the first low dosage radiation exposure.

      This is because the radiation "turns on" your body's natural radiation fighting responses. Those responses are actually pretty good, so turning them on decreases cancer risk initially. But if the radiation exposure gets higher, the body's system can't keep up.

      So for optimal cancer risk mitigation, you want slightly higher radiation than Earth currently puts out.

      --
      while (sig==sig) sig=!sig;
    6. Re:Begs the question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is still highly debated with data giving mixed results, and pretty much every metastudy trying to look at it suggesting more study is needed before a statement can be made about extremely low radiation levels (e.g. still a need for a very low background biology lab...).

      So for optimal cancer risk mitigation, you want slightly higher radiation than Earth currently puts out.

      Even if there is an optimal level, I haven't seen anything to suggest a level higher than current background levels are the optimal level, considering there is over an order of magnitude variation in background levels on Earth.

    7. Re:Begs the question... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      how can we eliminate that source of cancer

      To be clear are you suggesting there is a measurable amount of cancer caused by radiation from space?

      *and before anyone is smart, we're talking the type of radiation deflected by magnetic shield, not UV-C from the sun.

    8. Re:Begs the question... by Kjella · · Score: 1

      And before you go down there....those imperfect copies are what leads to genetic variation (important to fend off predators both macro and microscopic) and evolution. Cancer is just about inevitable in any DNA based system

      Past child-bearing age it's also wholly unnecessary. So if we invented individualized drugs or gene therapy or nanobots or whatever to kill off all non-conforming cells it'd be great.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    9. Re:Begs the question... by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      I know you weren't making a complete list, but an additional factor is we have linear DNA. The enzyme that copies our DNA sticks to the DNA being copied by grabbing on to a few base pairs before and after the copy site. Since we have linear DNA, the enzyme falls off before reaching the end. So each time our cells replicate, the DNA inside them gets a little shorter. And eventually, that "little shorter" is going to run into something important.

      (To counteract this, a whole lot of junk base pairs are added to the ends of our DNA molecules shortly after an egg is fertilized. That provides the DNA that can be lost without harm during that person's lifetime. But it will eventually run out)

    10. Re:Begs the question... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Animals/humans have no 'natural radiation fighting response'.
      Facepalm

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    11. Re:Begs the question... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      To be clear are you suggesting there is a measurable amount of cancer caused by radiation from space?

      This has been known for decades - since the start of regular flying at high altitude (above much of the atmosphere's protection) and over the pole (away from a lot of magnetic shielding) on routes like London-Tokyo. Crews have noticeable health deficits, including cancers, and it became a workplace hazard their employers must manage. Which they do by rota-ing, moving people between routes, etc.

      There's a dose-response relationship. It's not the cleanest in the universe, but [meh].

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  3. Loosened? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Pretty nifty.

    I'm a bit miffed about language: "[...] it loosened tiny ferromagnetic particles in the clay. As the pottery cooled and these particles hardened, [...]"
    That's a pretty graphic description, but in a geek site... can't we just say Curie point, or Curie temperature?
    If we don't keep the standards, who will?
    (If you think some jargon is exclusive: insert a link to Wikipedia -- there's, as often, a very nice article on that).

    1. Re:Loosened? by TeknoHog · · Score: 1
      I'm sure there will be a lot of hardening when you mention Curie on a geek site.

      That's a pretty graphic description

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    2. Re:Loosened? by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      I'm sure there will be a lot of hardening when you mention Curie on a geek site.

      really?

      --
      bickerdyke
    3. Re:Loosened? by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      Come on, we're talking about a female geek/scientist, that should suffice for the usual Slashdotter.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    4. Re:Loosened? by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but I've never heard of the Curie point or Curie temperature. Maybe I learned once, but I've forgotten. I'd be happy to learn if it's included in the article with an explanation, but I wouldn't have automatically known what that was.

    5. Re:Loosened? by GLMDesigns · · Score: 3, Informative

      Are you sure that the Curie point was named after Marie?
      ..
      ..
      ..
      ..
      Just checked. It's named after Pierre Curie
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    6. Re:Loosened? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but I've never heard of the Curie point or Curie temperature.

      WIYF

      Sorry it has taken so long to answer your (perfectly reasonable) question. Been on vacation.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  4. Paleomagnetism by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    Isn't this actually Paleomagnetism/Archaeology 101? I mean, reconstructing the magnetic field in shape and strength from the finds is a substantial endeavor, but the headline itself is no news to anyone in the field. It's been one of the bog-standard methods of how archaeological sites are surveyed.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
    1. Re:Paleomagnetism by TeknoHog · · Score: 5, Funny

      no news to anyone in the field.

      I see what you did there. Also, thanks to Slashdot's no editing policy, we now have a record of pun field strength for future paleocomedians.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    2. Re:Paleomagnetism by prince+hal · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Back in the '80s my prof at university told us that was one of the ways he used when dating North American aboriginal sites. The idea was you could determine where magnetic north was the last time a fire ring was used (and thereby calculate a fairly accurate date range) since the iron in the rocks/earth in the ring would align to magnetic north when heated to a high temperature.

    3. Re:Paleomagnetism by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      Using magnetostratigraphy (field strength changes compared to a standard - usually ocean core sediments - with a magnetism-independent dating method, such as biostratigraphy or tephra beds) is old hat. The new idea here is that the tax seals provide a date for each sample, and the magnetic traces in the pottery provide an estimator of the field strength at that time, increasing resolution of the variation in the geomagnetic field in the past.

      Clear as mud now?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  5. Re:Alternative Explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Then how do you explain the fact that clay with the same seal displays very similar effects, and with different seals display different effects, with the magnitude of the effect lining up with the years indicated by the seals on the pots?

  6. Interesting by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 2
    This could also be used to prove/disprove theories that some Pharaohs may have ruled concurrently rather than consecutively.

    Just a thought

    --

    Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    1. Re:Interesting by NG-Buddhist · · Score: 1

      That's an intriguing point. I wonder what dynastic discrepancies could be uncovered if they chose to look at that information.

    2. Re:Interesting by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      The PhD is out there waiting for you to come along and fund it.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  7. Declining fields and Pole Reversals. . by Salgak1 · · Score: 4, Informative

    . . . . back in my Geophysics days (early 1980s), we already knew that the current planetary magnetic field was in decline, and we were approaching a pole reversal "real soon now" (in Geologic timeframe, not human timeframe. . ).

    Heck, we were routinely measuring fossilized magnetic remnant fields in far older rocks, not just strength, but orientation as well. And finding the proper orientation of the sample was always difficult, generally required microscopic examination of a thin slice of the sample. The advantage of pottery for recent sampling, is that it is far easier to determine the orientation of the sample. . .

  8. Much more subject matter exists by Trachman · · Score: 1, Interesting

    There are a lot of red brick houses in the world. If only the date of the building of the house is known and the bricks are not repurposed from other buildings, similar information can be derived.

    If they can measure the magnetic properties of the mortar you can even get the direction.

    1. Re:Much more subject matter exists by codeButcher · · Score: 1

      There are a lot of red brick houses in the world. If only the date of the building of the house is known and the bricks are not repurposed from other buildings, similar information can be derived.

      If they can measure the magnetic properties of the mortar you can even get the direction.

      Yes. But not from 2000 years ago...

      --
      Free, as in your money being freed from the confines of your account.
  9. Re:Declining fields and Pole Reversals. . by pz · · Score: 1

    Hmm ... How are you going to determine field orientation at time of cooling below the Curie temperature for pottery? Wouldn't that require knowing the physical orientation of the item when it was being cooled after firing? Am I missing something, like there's a universal point-to-the-east orientation that all pottery is placed in when cooling?

    I can see making a good guess for geological structures, but pottery?

    --

    Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
  10. Re:Alternative Explanation by pz · · Score: 2

    Multiple samples from independent sources and locations help mitigate those concerns, along with a slowly-varying time course of the field strength.

    What manufacturing circumstances would change the strength of magnetization for ferrous inclusions in cooling pottery that would be present before, say, 0 AD to pick a convenient, arbitrary and approximately relevant threshold?

    --

    Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
  11. How does the change in mag field strength jive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How does the change in mag field strength jive with warming or cooling of Earth? Does the extra solar radiation heat us any?

  12. Re:What this also proves by Somebody+Is+Using+My · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "... to some speculation that the Earth may be losing its magnetic field -..."
    Since the data ultimately suggests that fluctuations are completely normal, I submit that this also starts to explain why people are taking scientists less and less seriously.

    Don't blame this on the researchers; blame this on the "science writers" (including the author of the summary here on Slashdot). The actual study - at least the abstract and the supplemental material, which was all I could read without a PNAS subscription - says no such thing and that particular wording is just a click-bait addition in order to garner more views. Science journalism - like so much journalism this day - has gone on a real decline over the past twenty years and tries to "spice up" every study rather than simply reporting the science. The end result is that scientists end up sounding inconsistent and hyperbolic ("Coffee Cures cancer!", no wait, "Coffee Causes Cancer"), when they usually are neither; it is the people reporting on their work that are to blame.

    Also see for a more graphic comment on the same problem.

  13. Re:Alternative Explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's in the actual paper - unfortunately it seems paywalled, I don't know if there's an arXiv equivalent for this stuff but the table on page 4 is pretty conclusive - about 100 samples split into age categories based on their stamps.

  14. Re:"accidentally" != "incidentally"/"unwittingly". by tsqr · · Score: 1

    Language, folks. Accidents are things you want to avoid, not things you just don't realize.

    It really isn't that hard to consult a dictionary rather than impulsively posting something that turns out to be mostly incorrect. There are seven meanings for the word "accident" here, and five of them have no negative connotation at all. Several indicate it's a synonym for the things you say it doesn't mean.

  15. Re:Declining fields and Pole Reversals. . by Salgak1 · · Score: 1

    Well, assuming you know the shape of the original pottery, or better still, have a whole piece or enough to reconstruct: simply MEASURE the orientation, then use paleomagnetic detection techniques to measure the remnant field. Then compare the observed field orientation against the physical orientation of the sample

  16. Re:Words have meaning by tsqr · · Score: 1

    Yes, words have meanings. Often, as in the case of "accident", words have more than one meaning. One of the meanings of "accident" is "any event that happens unexpectedly, without a deliberate plan or cause." In other words, "inadvertent".

  17. Re:Not accidentally! by jbrown.za · · Score: 1

    Accidentally is an appropriate word in this context. It refers to something that happened by chance or was fortuitous. You do not specifically have to be trying to avoid something for it to be accidental. English is a wonderful language that has many ways to say the same thing.

  18. Re:What this also proves by SharpFang · · Score: 1

    Fluctuations in past magnetic field on decade basis was hard as heck to measure on short period basis, because it takes solidifying rock/clay to lock the magnetic particles, and these don't form neat linear progression over time - the stamped pottery was the first that allowed to set samples in chronological order with decade dating precision.

    Past global temperature is much easier to estimate, as its 'records' are 'frozen' as yearly growth of trees; each ring recording how warm and how dry the year was, through changing cellular structure and amount of growth. Fossilized trees allow to determine that, year by year; and events like volcano eruptions depositing specific unique substances in given year's ring across all tree population of given world area allow correlating samples of different age. Similarly deposits at bottoms of lakes create similar records.

    In other words: we *just* discovered wild fluctuations in magnetic field. Meanwhile, for a long time, we have *known* there were no similar fluctuations with global temperature.

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  19. Screw the Kyoto Protocol by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    We need a new protocol that redistributes money from wealthy countries to poor ones who will be most affected by the loss of the magnetic field because the wealthy ones have a lot more electric motors and refrigerator magnets so they're ruining the Earth's field.

  20. Re:What this also proves by SharpFang · · Score: 1

    While the situation may be normal regarding Earth's history, and in past humanity history it would merely mean increased cancer incidence, magnetosphere primarily protects electronics from coronal mass ejections. This has only a history of several decades and was never exposed to diminished Earth magnetic field.

    So, no, life on Earth won't be wiped by the demagnetization, and no enormous natural cataclysm will occur. But you might find electronics fried at nuclear power plants affect our daily life, especially when accompanied with fried satellites, fried electronics of tractors farming fields that provide our food, fried hospital equipment, and so on, and so on. The resulting cataclysm would be direct result of our reliance on electronics, the accompanying minor bump in cancer incidence negligible by comparison.

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  21. Re:Let's answer the real question by SharpFang · · Score: 2

    Considering this is connected with Earth spin, any vehicle traveling east, pushing itself against the ground/water/air, is slowing Earth spin, while travel west increases it.

    So we should tax all eastward travel and use the money to subsidize westward transportation.

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  22. What the heck is "BCE"? What's wrong with "BC"? by Bearhouse · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Before Common Era? WTF? As opposed to an "uncommon" one?
    OK, I'm a (kinda) scientist, so I should maybe be "against" all the religious stuff, but I have no problem with "Before Christ" just as I have no problem with V for Volt(a) or A for Ampere. (Grant you, these were real people, and real scientists too...)

    FFS, it's not like "BC" is insulting to Muslims or other people who use a different calendar (many also religion-based), since they're not aligned with the same time period.
    If anything, "BCE" seems more insulting, since it implies that their alternative calendars are "not common"... /rant

  23. Re:Alternative Explanation by tinkerton · · Score: 1

    I agree that if they prove a tight correlation it means something. I can't see anything about that in the links though, so is this an article which proceeds from the assumption that the correlation with earth magnetism is very tight(if we assume correlation is tight then we can conclude magnetic field has decreased 30%), or does it prove the tight correlation as well. There is statistics involved and I can't see what kind.
    Testing that correlation can also be done with experiments today with new pottery. Have such experiments been done? I take it that fast variability of the earth magnetic field exists is already a given, because I doubt if old pottery by itself will carry enough weight to prove that the magnetic field can change quickly.

  24. Re:Not accidentally! by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

    Well, as other posts have already replied to you, the strict distinction you're trying to make here doesn't really hold in English. Both accidentally and inadvertently can easily apply to something that was trying to be avoided.

    But I sense a problem with the headline too, and I think the real issue is -- why are the POTTERS mentioned at all? There's a kind of implication with the way the headline is worded that the potters "recorded" information, except they had no concept of what such recording might amount to or what that information might be. Really, the potters had no intentionality here at all.

    This is even worse in the original NPR headline, which is "Iron Age Potters CAREFULLY Recorded Earth's Magnetic Field -- By Accident." That's more problematic from an English usage standpoint, because "carefully" implies they did something with care... specifically they "recorded" with care. But they didn't know they were recording anything, so how could they do it with care?

    The more clear way to word all of this would of course be to take the potters out of it completely, since they weren't "recording" anything -- intentionally or unintentionally. They were making pottery. A better headline might just be "Strength of Earth's Magnetic Field Recorded in Structure of Iron Age Pottery" or something. Even better, leave "record" out of it entirely, since that usually implies intentionally preserving information to begin with -- maybe "Historical Variance in Earth's Magnetic Field Strength Measured Using Iron Age Pottery" or something.

  25. Re:Declining fields and Pole Reversals. . by pz · · Score: 1

    And you know that the pottery wasn't moved from its original orientation during cooling because .... ?

    --

    Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
  26. Re:What this also proves by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    Let's be clear - I didn't blame it on the scientists.

    I simply said that this is an example of "why people are taking scientists less seriously".

    I totally agree it's science writing; part of it may be endemic to the democritization of information in the internet age. Formerly, these sorts of fascinating, cutting edge science information would be confined to the pages of discipline-specific journals (who were well able to cover it). If something was really big news, it might show up in the NYT or on the wire, to be parsed and conveyed to other publications by a few credible, experienced 'science' writers.

    Now, there's a gajilliion science magazines out there (in print and web form) so there's no possible way that they can all have competent journalists. Further, the news outraces the discipline and shows up on everything from Gizmodo to Slashdot, at BEST getting a half-assed summary from someone who spent 2 mins speed-reading the exec summary of the (as you experienced) paywalled ACTUAL paper.

    --
    -Styopa
  27. Re:What the heck is "BCE"? What's wrong with "BC"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Christ" is a title (meaning messiah), not a name. AD is similar in that "D" stands for Domini (Latin for Lord). So both BC and AD express a Christian belief about Jesus.

  28. Re:What the heck is "BCE"? What's wrong with "BC"? by NG-Buddhist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    BCE/CE has been a standard in discussing historical time periods for a while now. There's nothing impolite about it, just as there's nothing impolite about using Before Christ/Anno Domini, or using a Hebrew calendar, or using a Chinese calendar, or using an Islamic calendar, or a Hindu one, etc.

  29. Re: Declining fields and Pole Reversals. . by justin1409 · · Score: 1

    Possibly because it might be a little too hot to move...what would be the purpose of moving pottery before it cools?...well I guess the could have made a kiln on a wagon...or...a spinning kiln...hmmm...

  30. Re:Alternative Explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Yup, much better to assume the researchers are dumber than some armchair Slashdot experts.

  31. Re:What the heck is "BCE"? What's wrong with "BC"? by imidan · · Score: 2

    The first documented instance of the Vulgaris Aerae (Vulgar Era, meaning “Common Era”) being used interchangeably with Anno Domini was featured in Latin works by Johannes Kepler in 1615, 1616, and 1617. The English version of phrase later appeared in 1635 in an English translation of Kepler’s 1615 work. (In the mid-seventeenth century the English “vulgar” took on a new definition of “coarse,” but it wouldn’t be until this “coarse/unrefined” definition would become more common in the 20th century that referring to the Vulgar Era would cease.) [1]

    It's not like this is a new thing. And it really doesn't matter in ordinary conversation, at least for most of us. But when publishing in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, it makes sense to use the terminology of science, which does not recognize Jesus as "Christ" with all of the associated baggage.

    [1] http://www.todayifoundout.com/...

  32. Re:What this also proves by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

    So what you're saying is that there haven't been radical near-instant (in geological terms) 'spikes' of warmth about every 120k for the last 3+ million years?

    Funny, that's pretty much what that graph shows to me.

    --
    -Styopa
  33. don't give SyFy any ideas.... by better_resurrection · · Score: 1

    ...nightmare...

    --
    church of the better resurrection... https://betterresurrectionchurch.wordpress.com/
  34. Re:What the heck is "BCE"? What's wrong with "BC"? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    In america!
    Not in the rest of the world.
    It makes no sense to give a certain point in time a different name depending if you refer to it 'before' or 'after'.
    Evereyone, except americans, is saying before _christ_ and after _christ_.
    That means we say AD or AC and BC. The american nomenclature is just confusing :)

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  35. Re:What this also proves by SharpFang · · Score: 1

    "near instant (in geological terms)" means timescales of 1000 years. Not 50. That graph gives resolution of 64 years per pixel at the smallest scale, and even then as NGRIP record might point large changes on 200 years time scale, EPICA follow a much milder change.

    --
    45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
  36. Re: Declining fields and Pole Reversals. . by pz · · Score: 1

    So the supposition is that kilns have been found with pots inside, we can demonstrate that the pots have been left undisturbed since the start of their last firing many thousands of years ago so you can judge the orientation of the earth's field at the time of cooling, and, moreover, we know the kilns haven't been moved either?

    Color me skeptical.

    Note that the article talks about intensity not orientation. Intensity, I understand. Orientation seems implausible with this method.

    --

    Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
  37. Neeto! by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    I always find it fascinating when modern science and ancient history collide. There have been a number of stories like this over the years as technology advances. It hits me in both my science and technology spot as well as being a fan of ancient history and trying to piece together things from so long ago.

    That said when I read it I some how saw some bearded ancient historian crying in the corner as scientists take irreplaceable artifacts of the past, smash them, and grind up the remains for magnetic analysis. I don't *know* how they actually did it, but that's the image in my head.... :)

  38. Re:What the heck is "BCE"? What's wrong with "BC"? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    There's a lot of people in the rest of the world who don't care about anyone named Jesus or Christ, but who have adopted our calendar because it's in very widespread use (the network effect).

    Besides, if Jesus existed, he was born a few (we don't know how many) years BC, which makes no sense. We know when the commonly used calendar started We just go with it.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  39. Re:What the heck is "BCE"? What's wrong with "BC"? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    Doesn't change the fact that everyone says AC and BC.
    I really doubt you (yes, you as a person) say in real life CE ... but perhaps you are one of the few non 'english historians' who uses out of political correctness or SJW syndrome 'CE'.
    On the other hand I got already flamed for using the term BC on /. ... rofl.

    Regarding your argument about Christus, well, I would really wonder if he has not lived. But using his 'narrowed' down time of birth for a new calendar and then calling it 'common era' ... erm, I really wonder what the bigger insult is to non Christians. The fact that you use his birth as starting date or that you call that date 'common'?

    Most countries that have a different calendar btw. have no problem using their own and the 'internet calender' and probably a thrd one as in reign of the King or Emporer simultaniously.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  40. Re:Alternative Explanation by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

    It's on PNAS Early - Sci-hub.io should be fine with it.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  41. Re: Declining fields and Pole Reversals. . by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
    It's only since (approximately) 1750 CE that people have built kin's out of "fire brick", loaded them with prepared forms (with glazes, etc), spent days firing them up and cooling them down, then carefully emptied the debris and successful product out of the kiln before re-use.

    Before then, the kiln was built around the charge of forms using basically the same clay as the forms, the fire started in the integrated hearth (chimney also integrated to draw the fire), and the charge fired up over several days before the fire was put out and the kiln allowed to cool to the point it could be torn down to unload. Posh kilns with a lot of clay supply might make a hearth and kiln floor of fire brick for re-use, but generally it was as efficient a system as building a space ship then throwing it into the ocean after using it once.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  42. Re:What the heck is "BCE"? What's wrong with "BC"? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
    The change from Nicene terminology ("Anno Domini" & "Before Christ") to Common Era terminology is certainly not an American-versus-RestOfTheWorld question, nor even a particularly religious question.

    Hanging a dating system off on specific person's birth date has certain problems for historical work, in particular, some historical facts are needed about this person (call him Cleese, and we can all perform the Parrot Sketch before shuffling off) - such as the day of year that Cleese was born on (not in any of the manuals - indications of winter, maybe around the winter solstice?) ; also the year would be a good idea (from 1952 to 1957 BP, as defined above, even according to people who accept the next point) ; and finally, it would be a good idea to be confident that this Cleese person actually existed.

    To get around these multiple problems of historical detail, the Common Era is set up to align with the astronomical measures with 0 CE being 4713 years after the last time that the Solar, Metonic and indiction cycles of eclipses and the Moon combined. Simple.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  43. Re:What the heck is "BCE"? What's wrong with "BC"? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

    Doesn't change the fact that everyone says AC and BC.

    This is flat out untrue. It could only be true if you spoke to no-one in your "real life" experience who had any background or interest in one of the historical sciences. It's possible that you have such a benighted existence, but I hope you have a more varied life than you imply.

    I really doubt you (yes, you as a person) say in real life CE

    I do say CE / BCE in real life. Whenever we're talking about historical matters at the pub - e.g. with the digger-driver with his collection of locally found stone tools. Or when talking about the several Neolithic to possibly Iron Age burial structures in the area.

    Why would you not use the correct terminology? The one thing we can be sure about is that the arrow-knappers and burial-makers were not Cleesian due to this being centuries to millennia before the claimed life of Cleese

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  44. Re:What the heck is "BCE"? What's wrong with "BC"? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    I would suggest to simply read stuff about historical events ..
    Everyone is saying BC if it is before 0 and AC if it is after, in rarer cases AD.

    It is only americans and hyper critical /. readers that use CE and BCE.

    I'm 50 and had english in schools. This CE and BCE stuff occured in my life a few years ago. Before that everyone understood what BC is ...

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  45. Re:What the heck is "BCE"? What's wrong with "BC"? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    Erm, what point do you want to make?

    Again: except for history freaks! no one is using those terms. And then again: it is only americans, probably on a 'social justice political correctness' trip.

    Just read wikipedia about random events in history, people as in actual people say BC and AC (not AD as most people are not christians or simply don't remember that english/americsns prefer AD over AC)

    In other words: it might be correct english to say BCE, but 90% of the english speakers on the planet don't speak 'correct english'. They use their own words. I'm german, e.g. And no one says in german 'before common aera' so every german will simply say 'before christ' as that is how it is called in german, or italian, or spanish or chinese.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.