Microsoft is Making It Easy To Stop Windows 10 Rebooting Your PC Randomly For Updates (theverge.com)

Uhh by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-01 06:07 · Score: 1

How nice of them?

Re:Uhh by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-01 06:19 · Score: 5, Funny

The Windows Operating System was actually designed for frogs.
"Reboot!" "Reboot!" "Reboot!" "Reboot!" ...
Re:Uhh by Z00L00K · 2017-03-01 07:16 · Score: 4, Interesting

And what would happen if the Snooze button is hidden by some other service or if it disrupts another service at an unexpected moment? How many of us has been accidentally selecting "OK" on something just because we were typing some text in a word processing or something and don't know what we did click "OK" for?

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If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
Re:Uhh by fahrbot-bot · 2017-03-01 07:26 · Score: 4, Funny

The Windows Operating System was actually designed for frogs. "Reboot!" "Reboot!" "Reboot!" "Reboot!" ...
That explains things. I put my PC in a pot of water, slowly raised it to a boil and my PC never jumped out.

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It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Re:Uhh by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-01 07:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

And what would happen if the Snooze button is hidden by some other service or if it disrupts another service at an unexpected moment?
More worrisome: you forgot you had a 3-day delayed update pending and get an unexpected delayed update in teh middle of something else important. A longer delay doesn't solve the problem.
Re:Uhh by unrtst · 2017-03-01 09:54 · Score: 1

Exactly...
$ uptime
16:51:37 up 107 days, 5:01, 50 users, load average: 1.06, 1.25, 1.29
Even if that was much lower, 3 days is not enough. I shouldn't have to actively "snooze" it. I should be able to schedule a check for updates to only happen once a month, or any period of time I like, including never. Who's computer is it?
Re:Uhh by infolation · 2017-03-01 10:30 · Score: 1

We also heard that unexpected reboots are disruptive
My head literally reels with the notion that they need to hear unexpected reboots are disruptive to know they're disruptive!!!! What??!!
Re:Uhh by unrtst · 2017-03-01 10:48 · Score: 1

Complaining about something is useless, futile, and annoying when you absolutely refuse to make any change to alleviate your problem.
I thought it was fairly obvious I'm not running Windows, and I disagree anyway. Having complaints ignored, or barely recognized, again and again and again... sure, then it's time to move on to someone else that does listen, but complaining can be very useful.
Re:Uhh by Grishnakh · 2017-03-01 11:06 · Score: 1

I thought it was fairly obvious I'm not running Windows, and I disagree anyway.
Yeah, unfortunately English makes it hard to differentiate between you-singular and you-plural (and in this case, 2nd person addressed to everyone in general), which is why I added the aside about my comment being addressed to anyone running Windows.
Having complaints ignored, or barely recognized, again and again and again... sure, then it's time to move on to someone else that does listen, but complaining can be very useful.
I think it should be fairly obvious by now that MS is not listening and does not care about consumers' complaints. And why should they? The OS is not the product, the user data is; why do you think they were giving the OS away for free? Moreover, MS updates have been a PITA for a very long time; they've only gotten more annoying and intrusive in the last few years. The idea that MS is suddenly going to change their ways and make their OS more convenient and privacy-respecting for consumers is pure lunacy.
Re:Uhh by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-01 15:25 · Score: 1

Windows has detected that the mouse has moved. Please restart for changes to take effect.
Re:Uhh by Askmum · 2017-03-01 19:18 · Score: 1

We also heard that unexpected reboots are disruptive
My head literally reels with the notion that they need to hear unexpected reboots are disruptive to know they're disruptive!!!! What??!!
In my experience, product managers and system operators are the least likely to understand what the user actually want.
Re: Uhh by billyswong · 2017-03-02 01:43 · Score: 1

So Microsoft expect everyone buy a server license, just because he or she wants the PC do some overnight batch job? Or even worse, just because he or she got busy and worked overnight one day?
Re: Uhh by Insanity+Defense · 2017-03-02 04:04 · Score: 1

They have Stockholm Syndrome and don't know it.
Re:Uhh by unicornzvi · 2017-03-04 06:25 · Score: 1

Exactly...
$ uptime 16:51:37 up 107 days, 5:01, 50 users, load average: 1.06, 1.25, 1.29
Even if that was much lower, 3 days is not enough. I shouldn't have to actively "snooze" it. I should be able to schedule a check for updates to only happen once a month, or any period of time I like, including never. Who's computer is it?
Actually you can do that, you need to go and edit the options in the task scheduler for windows reboot function, but you can do it. Personally I edited it to never reboot automatically.

I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2017-03-01 06:09 · Score: 4, Informative

More testing before rolling out upgrades would be nice. I've had one "unable to complete" for a few weeks now. Reboots the system, discovers the install doesn't fit the hardware, rolls back. Whole process takes about 30 minutes.

--
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.

Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by KiloByte · 2017-03-01 07:32 · Score: 1

update issues like the one you describe are happening to less 1 in 10,000 systems
In my testing, that's 2 in 2. On both of these, not every update fails, just somewhere around 2 in 3, but that's per version -- if a given update fails, it fails every time.
And from a glance at Slashdot, I'm not alone.
I pity those who actually have to do something important on Windows...

--
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by spacepimp · 2017-03-01 08:32 · Score: 1

I've had this happen to about 15-20% of all Win 10 systems at my office. The entirety of the ones with issues are Microsoft Surface devices. I guess MS cannot test for all hardware, but why can't they do that for their own overpriced crap?
Your 1 in ten thousand public number is not accurate in my experience. Personally I've had three times with Win 10 where I had to do full rei-mages as a result of MS breaking their native driver or similar on my own Surface Pro 3 twice and once on my surfacebook.
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by Applehu+Akbar · 2017-03-01 08:58 · Score: 1

More testing before rolling out upgrades would be nice. I've had one "unable to complete" for a few weeks now. Reboots the system, discovers the install doesn't fit the hardware, rolls back. Whole process takes about 30 minutes.
This feature was introduced in Windows XP, and has been so popular that sometimes when you reboot a PC, you see a string of ten updates trudge away through their completion percentages, fail to install, and automatically get backed out. This gives you time for a nice lunch before having to get back to work on your still un-updated Windows box.
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by ScienceofSpock · 2017-03-01 09:19 · Score: 1

I pity those who actually have to do something important on Windows...
Nah, most of us with important stuff to do didn't upgrade past Win 7 SP1. We're fine, thanks.
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by denguydj · 2017-03-01 09:19 · Score: 1

Happened to me too. The fix is to open yes internet explorer and search for that KB number to manually download from their updates catalog that only works in internet explorer.... its also close to 1 gig file for the last one at least...
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2017-03-01 10:05 · Score: 1

It doesn't give me a KB number...but I'll look around.

--
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by Grishnakh · 2017-03-01 10:19 · Score: 1

More testing before rolling out upgrades would be nice.
Lots of things "would be nice". It'd be nice if I could stop paying rent and just get to live in my house for free. It'd be nice if I didn't have to work for a living. It'd be nice if there was vaccination for cancer. It'd be nice if we built a nice Moon base with a fancy hotel for tourists, and I could go there for free for a week.
Lots of smaller things would be nice too: it'd be nice if Apple iPhones weren't overpriced and didn't have glued-in batteries and crappy screens and a crappy UI and still had headphone jacks. But Apple doesn't care about my opinion, so I don't buy their devices. It'd be nice if Jeeps weren't overpriced, horrifically ugly, poorly handling gas guzzlers, and instead were all very attractive, extremely reliable, and fuel-efficient small cars like I prefer. But Chrysler doesn't care about my opinion, so I don't buy Jeeps. It'd be nice if McDonald's only sold high-quality, healthy food. But McDonald's doesn't care about my opinion, so I don't eat there.
If having well-tested software is important to you, and having an OS that forces you to reboot and then wait 30 minutes to attempt a failed update, over and over again is something you don't like, then maybe your preferences are not aligned with Microsoft's, and you should look for another vendor.
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by Grishnakh · 2017-03-01 10:22 · Score: 1

For now....
Before long, Win7 will no longer receive security updates, and it'll be just like WinXP. Plus there's the issue of older OSes not working on newer hardware because of a lack of drivers.
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by denguydj · 2017-03-01 10:39 · Score: 1

its under update history it will say something like tried to install update KB******** but failed will retry later.
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by Grishnakh · 2017-03-01 11:02 · Score: 1

Exactly, and this is just how it should be. This is good for MS because it increases their profits, by screwing over the consumers, which is fine because they're perfectly willing to bend over and take it, so it'd be dumb for MS not to take advantage.
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by Namarrgon · 2017-03-01 11:07 · Score: 2

Had a good one myself. Forced a reboot, spent 90 mins s..l..o..w..l..y installing the update, got to 94% then failed something and spent another 90 mins unrolling everything again - unusable for 3 hours. Repeat the next day, and the next. Clearing update caches, scouring logs for error codes, googling all the things, tearing hair - nothing helped, until I eventually found something that hinted at the actual cause: my EFI partition apparently wasn't quite big enough.

--
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Re: I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by Trogre · 2017-03-01 12:09 · Score: 1

That's a bit like asking them to name a well-tested zipper manufacturer, but not mention YKK.

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"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2017-03-01 12:12 · Score: 1

I'll have to check that out...

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SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by ScienceofSpock · 2017-03-01 12:46 · Score: 1

The "Older OS not working on newer hardware" thing is largely a myth, for the time being. The OS works just fine on newer hardware, where you run into trouble is installing in the first place.
The way it was described to me is something like this: The Win7 install media was built to look for drives in a specific way. Modern BIOS no longer present the drives that way, so Win7 doesn't see any drives to install to (Feel free to chime in or correct me if you're familiar with this stuff).The work around is to simply use an older machine. Put the drive in the older machine and start the install. when the Win7 installer reboots, shut the machine down, move the drive to the new machine and continue the install there. I just did this with my new machine and it works like a charm.
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by rtb61 · 2017-03-01 12:57 · Score: 1

The fix is to uninstall windows 10 and install windows 7 and disable updates and that is in reality is the one and only fix. Well, whoops I am wrong, there are two others fixes, use a fire wall configure to block all M$ IP addresses and the other is never ever to plug a windows 10 box to the internet. Those are you choices. The other choice is not a choice, bend over and drop your pants because M$ now controls your back door.

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Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by Bite+The+Pillow · 2017-03-01 15:17 · Score: 1

I have a brainless mouse age 10, that randomly right clicks because the driver is reinstalled every few seconds. Generic HID, no special features, worked fine just before the reboot.
No excuse.
Re:I'd rather they put more money into bug fixing by Insanity+Defense · 2017-03-02 04:17 · Score: 1

Update made it so the keyboard had to be unplugged and plugged back in after typing 2-5 characters.
Update blocked network access.
Update blocked Terminal Software from network access.
Update blocking all department computers on a Monday morning for 2 hours
In my personal life no more MS products. Can ya guess why? Microsoft can't seem to understand.

Only MS by DakotaSmith · 2017-03-01 06:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

"What we heard back most explicitly was that you want more control over when Windows 10 installs updates," admits John Cable, Microsoft's Windows director of program management. "We also heard that unexpected reboots are disruptive if they happen at the wrong time."

Only Microsoft would think that people don't want control of updates, or that unexpected reboots aren't disruptive.

I've been in IT 39 years. Only an idiot doesn't know those two things.

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Microsoft leads to Bluescreen; Bluescreen leads to downtime; downtime leads to suffering.

Re:Only MS by gtall · 2017-03-01 06:19 · Score: 5, Insightful

Of course they knew it, but they figured the longer they could get away with the forced updates, the better off they were at stemming any disruption to their business model. It is all about monetization of the "user experience". You are nothing more than a fat, information bloated meat sack waiting to sucked dry the MS Mosquito.
Re:Only MS by UnknowingFool · 2017-03-01 06:22 · Score: 3, Informative

Oh they know. They haven't cared so far with Windows 10. Especially since some of those who got Windows 10 as a free update, they're not paying customers. Windows 10 was never the product. The user data was the product.

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Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Re:Only MS by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-01 06:38 · Score: 2, Insightful

And yet they try to pass off the spyware as though it were a tool for feedback and not data harvesting. Too bad feedback only works if they listen to it.
I also have a problem with doing their job for them. I don't want to buy Windows 10 (or buy a version of Windows that got upgraded to 10, same thing), and submit any data to them, even if it's to make their lives easier and to fix bugs. If they want that data, they can rehire their QA team or they can PAY me for it. I won't work for them for free.
Re:Only MS by phantomfive · 2017-03-01 06:43 · Score: 2

I kind of thought that this was fixed back in 2002. Even this new fix looks like a regression from back then.

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"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Re:Only MS by Ayanami_R · 2017-03-01 06:49 · Score: 1

Most people don't want to care about any of that in my experience it's the power users doing the complaining. Ask any average mobile user what version their software is and 99% won't be able to tell you.

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"Science is the power of man"
Re:Only MS by spire3661 · 2017-03-01 07:12 · Score: 1

All the power, none of the responsibility.

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Good-bye
Re:Only MS by QuesarVII · 2017-03-01 07:15 · Score: 2

Fuck, if I were in charge after the 3rd snooze was up a big middle finger would fill the screen and say "Fuck you, you lazy piece of fucking shit. This is a message from Bill fucking Gates: Get a fucking ipad and use gmail you sorry excuse for a human being." and the computer would lock itself until updates were completed.
And what about long running software? If someone is running a simulation that takes 2 weeks, do you think it's acceptable to reboot the computer on them forcefully after 13 days?
Re:Only MS by wireloose · 2017-03-01 07:44 · Score: 4, Informative

"What we heard back most explicitly was that you want more control over when Windows 10 installs updates," admits John Cable, Microsoft's Windows director of program management. "We also heard that unexpected reboots are disruptive if they happen at the wrong time."
Made me laugh aloud. People wanting their computers to work when they are using them, rather than having their o/s rebooting unexpectedly? Microsoft has known this since the earliest days of MS-DOS and refused to listen. Now they act like it's news, 36 years after the first complaints.
Re:Only MS by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-01 08:01 · Score: 5, Insightful

The absolute worst aren't even the reboots in my experience - it's when you need to run out the door, go to shut down your laptop so you can slam the lid, toss it in a bag and go... and you get the dreaded "don't you dare touch this laptop for the next 5 minutes to 8 hours, important updates you can't control have started. Do you (a) hang around for an indeterminant amount of time waiting for the 5 minute... no, 1 hour... no, 30 seconds... no, 2 weeks... no... updates to grind away and miss your meeting/flight/dinner; or do you slam the lid anyway and run the very real risk of screwing up the OS.
Re:Only MS by JustAnotherOldGuy · 2017-03-01 08:06 · Score: 3, Insightful

Only Microsoft would think that people don't want control of updates, or that unexpected reboots aren't disruptive.
I've learned to expect the highest level of unawareness from Microsoft, even on regarding the most obvious topics. Sometimes I think they say things like this just to gauge the level of outrage and "WTF?" that follows.
It's almost as if none of them use a computer, at least not one running Windows. They sound genuinely baffled that an unexpected reboot would be cause for concern. It's mind-boggling.

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Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Re:Only MS by QuesarVII · 2017-03-01 08:10 · Score: 1

That's an incorrect assumption. I don't agree with the choice either, but there are a lot of people that do scientific work under Windows.

I know of a particular microwave propagation simulation software that only has full support under Windows. It's possible to send the compute work to a Linux system, but all of the visualization and modeling portion is Windows only.
Re:Only MS by Tulsa_Time · 2017-03-01 08:13 · Score: 1

Has MS given up on SCADA, ICS and real-time computing?

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5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
Re: Only MS by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-01 08:19 · Score: 1

There is the Long Term Service Branch for Windows 10 Enterprise that is designed for this situation.
Re:Only MS by erapert · 2017-03-01 08:23 · Score: 1

1. Mostly that's because my phone doesn't reboot when the apps on my phone are updated.
2. I don't use my phone for important work
3. The crappy version of Lagdroid that Samsung put on my Galaxy S III is no longer being updated anyway.
Re:Only MS by Alumoi · 2017-03-01 08:32 · Score: 2

Of course it's acceptable. It's Microsoft's OS and they can do whatever the fuck they want with it. Don't like it? Don't use it.
Re:Only MS by dwywit · 2017-03-01 09:26 · Score: 1

It *is* a pain, but not that difficult to mitigate. The reboot is a scheduled task which can easily be modified, or even disabled.
A bit more of a task for non-technical folk, sure, but not nearly as daunting as poking around in the registry.

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They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
Re:Only MS by barbariccow · 2017-03-01 09:33 · Score: 1

That's very obvious if it were programmers writing most of these simulations/calculations/farm jobs. In reality, it's mostly scientists who happen to know a bit of programming who write the "driver" application which uses other minor libs that go sometimes up to 100 levels deep, all developed in the same situation. Even if the end-point scientist was forced to add checkpoints or otherwise saveable and restorable state in some form, if 40% of the work happens 52 levels deep in that chain, and 40% happens 64 levels deep in the other direction, your only choices are really "Save at beginning" or "Save at done." Oh, and you also can't modify those deep levels because they constantly change and have to be completely rewritten (and thus not patchable) because... again, they're written by non-developers.
Source: Years working in such fields.
Re:Only MS by barbariccow · 2017-03-01 09:36 · Score: 1

That's crazy. Updates that don't just require their dependent services be restarted? You're one of those crazy leenaux nuts aren't ya? What'll you tell me next, that every time I install a new application I shouldn't have to restart either?
Re:Only MS by TheFakeTimCook · 2017-03-01 11:10 · Score: 1

The absolute worst aren't even the reboots in my experience - it's when you need to run out the door, go to shut down your laptop so you can slam the lid, toss it in a bag and go... and you get the dreaded "don't you dare touch this laptop for the next 5 minutes to 8 hours, important updates you can't control have started. Do you (a) hang around for an indeterminant amount of time waiting for the 5 minute... no, 1 hour... no, 30 seconds... no, 2 weeks... no... updates to grind away and miss your meeting/flight/dinner; or do you slam the lid anyway and run the very real risk of screwing up the OS.
Slam the lid. Despite the dire warnings, it NEVER messes anything up.

Now as for the genius that decided that Shutdown was the perfect time to start some indeterminate process...
Re:Only MS by Ayanami_R · 2017-03-03 04:54 · Score: 1

Most customers in my current environment don't even know they are using windows 7. It has nothing to do with a pocket computer versus a big one. It's just something people simply do not care about, is the device still working, can I do what I want on it? All good.
You don't but many do use their phones for important work, and they STILL don't give a rats ass what version is on there.
The disconnect between technologists and the general public is massive indeed.

--
"Science is the power of man"
Re:Only MS by Matheus · 2017-03-09 05:32 · Score: 1

Wait... you shut down your laptop??
I haven't fully shutdown my laptop in 2.5 years. Problem solved.

add windows 10 enterprise gpo's to pro! by Joe_Dragon · 2017-03-01 06:15 · Score: 1

add windows 10 enterprise gpo's to pro!

What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by GameboyRMH · 2017-03-01 06:16 · Score: 5, Informative

It would be nice to have a notification on the shutdown menu stating how many updates are about to be installed before you shut down or restart, to avoid the computer unexpectedly becoming temporarily both useless and unable to shut down while it's installing updates. This is a major problem for computers that aren't used often and have to shut down or start up in a hurry...like dedicated presentation laptops.

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel

Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by omnichad · 2017-03-01 06:41 · Score: 2

Isn't it always one update? Or does that not apply to Windows 10?
That one update may take 30 minutes to install on a Core i7 with an SSD, but it's still only one update. And twice a year, the "one" monthly update is a completely new OS image.
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by RightwingNutjob · 2017-03-01 07:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

Which is why serious work doesn't get done on Windows. The corollary to an above comment that "only an idiot doesn't understand that uncommanded reboots are disruptive" is the statement that only an idiot would bring along a system to do a big presentation that is subject to frequent uncommanded reboots and brick periods.

I do all of my presentations on Linux machines and I set all of my machines to either disable auto filesystem checks on boot entirely or at least have the boot set up so I can CTRL-C out of it if needed. Why? Because my schedule gets set by me, not by some geek in another timezone who thinks he knows better than his lusers.
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by GameboyRMH · 2017-03-01 07:23 · Score: 3, Funny

Must be nice to not have to deal with average Joe users at all...they see an interface that looks a little different from the Windows they're used to, and they're paralyzed. Putting an unfamiliar operating system on a computer they have to use would literally be at least as disruptive as changing Windows' UI language to Japanese.
Can't remember the last time I used a distro that didn't let you Ctrl-C out of fsck on boot by default. All I have to watch out for on Linux is update-apt-xapian-index on older computers, where it amounts to a surprise CPU and HDD stress test.

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by Obfuscant · 2017-03-01 07:29 · Score: 1, Interesting

Which is why serious work doesn't get done on Windows.

Unfortunately, some software is only available on Windows. People who don't program for a living tend to program to the style of the system they have at hand, and because Microsoft has so polluted the programming environment with system specific things, those programs become system-locked until someone with programming skills can convert it. If the source is available. If there is money to pay someone to do the programming.
This applies alot in the scientific community. Really smart scientists, or their graduate students, program something in Visual Basic or C# or whatever, and this becomes a distributed executable shared with others. They don't know better.
Or worse, it is a small company that has picked up the program and doesn't have the money to support multiple OSs, so they pick the one that everyone has. Windows. They don't make enough from your license to pay someone to port the code to Linux to run on your system, so sorry.
I have users who have models that run for a week. The "three day delay" in rebooting is really nice, Microsoft. Thanks so much. It does make for a wonderful morning when one of those users comes in to find the system rebooted after a five day run on a six day model. And all I can say is, umm, well, start over? And pull your system off the net. Yes, copy all the boundary condition data off the fileservers before you start.

only an idiot would bring along a system to do a big presentation that is subject to frequent uncommanded reboots and brick periods.

Unfortunately, in the scientific community, such presentations are often not under the control of the user, depending on the "IT department" of a hotel or convention center. And by "IT department" I mean the low paid people who have to deal with 1000 issues and problems all going on at the same time. The same people who make sure there are tables and water and the signs are correct for each of 100 meeting rooms...
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by KiloByte · 2017-03-01 07:38 · Score: 1

It's not Windows, you can uninstall that xapian crap, it's about as useful as nepomuk.

--
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by GameboyRMH · 2017-03-01 07:43 · Score: 1

Yep that's what I do on computers that can't handle it. I first tried disabling the cron scripts for it, but they get re-enabled if it's updated.

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by thegarbz · 2017-03-01 07:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

Which is why serious work doesn't get done on Windows.

Hahahahah. Post like this is the reason the entire community isn't taken seriously.
Seriously.
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by hackertourist · 2017-03-01 07:49 · Score: 1

This is one of the scenarios where Hibernate helps. Much faster (and more predictable) than shutdown/startup.
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by barbariccow · 2017-03-01 09:41 · Score: 1

.they see an interface that looks a little different from the Windows they're used to, and they're paralyzed
What? Absolute bullshit. I hand novice users my laptop all the time. I show them how to move the mouse to the top-left corner so they can click firefox. Nobody has a problem or even further questions. If they wanna open something else, they do the one step I taught them: Move the mouse to the top-left corner, and if it's not a button in the left pane, they look around. Within a second because the upper-left corner gives an overlay such that everything past it is somewhat-opaque gray, their eyes focus toward the button they click to access ALL graphical applications.
Literally I've given gnome3 to 90 year old women who can't use windows and show them the 'one way to access stuff' and they have no problem..
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by barbariccow · 2017-03-01 09:47 · Score: 1

That's right. You can bring in whatever you want, you just can't hook it up to the network. And depending on how important the scientist is, you can break any and all the rules that gets them sciencing faster. They are the customer. Their work is the mission. You may have to clean up a lot afterwards, and what's why you create guidelines and don't let any ol' person with a degree do whatever they want, but in the end your job working IT in such jobs is supporting the scientists in their work (the primary goal of the institution/lab/whatever) NOT imposing your knowledge of best practices onto them.
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by dpidcoe · 2017-03-01 09:49 · Score: 1

This is utter bullshit, and I'm a (nuclear) scientist that does give presentations. No venue yet has had an issue with me bringing my own machine with whatever opsys etc I want on it to plug into their AV system.
Nuclear is pretty unrestricted as far as IT goes. I work in the defense industry, and we confiscate all of your electronic devices at the gate. If you're presenting something, you transfer the ppt file ahead of time (they're super paranoid about usb sticks). You're stuck using whatever system IT has configured.
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by Obfuscant · 2017-03-01 10:15 · Score: 1

Obfuscant lives on another planet. What color is the sky there?
You really don't have to be so insulting just because your experience is different than mine. I've been to many conferences where the rules are different, and I'm not talking about instrument control software for a $1,000,000 mass spec. I'm not talking about software that uses a standard protocol to talk to an oscilloscope or power supply (like GPIB or Labview) where I can write my own access software if they only provide Windows versions. I'm talking about a license for a model that costs maybe $500 and is available only as an exe file for Windows. Pure programming that has nothing to do with "drag and drop".
I also did not say that all scientists were incapable of programming well, only that many of them don't. I'm happy that you think you aren't part of that group, but many scientists don't have a clue how to write good software. I've spent hours trying to fix things as trivial as "what do you do if your parameters text file has a line without a ':'?" It took so long to fix because the problem was so patently obvious and really stupid that I couldn't believe anyone would write code that failed so badly, and because it ran when compiled with a stock Linux compiler (gfortran). The author never bothered to check the index returned for the colon separator in a "parameter: value" option. A blank line resulted in an index of '0' (not found) which was blindly passed to a string copy. (Copying a string from index 1 to "colon-1" is nonsense when the index of the colon is 0.) The failure was whitewashed by a low-performance FORTRAN library that did input checking on everything and didn't segfault. When compiled with a high-performance parallel FORTRAN that assumes the programmer wasn't lazy, it segfaulted, and did so under MPI, leaving only a "p4error" from the clients as a hint.
And I've spent a lot of time debugging what was supposed to be a fully supported configuration, but for some reason the author used mixed format FORTRAN code (some files free format, some fixed) and didn't correctly specify the compilation flags for each in the Makefile. I.e., the program would not compile, and the author didn't notice.
So climb down off your high horse, Coward, and recognize that the world you live on is not as homogenous as you think, and that not every reference to "science" refers to you.
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by Grishnakh · 2017-03-01 10:32 · Score: 1

Must be nice to not have to deal with average Joe users at all...they see an interface that looks a little different from the Windows they're used to, and they're paralyzed. Putting an unfamiliar operating system on a computer they have to use would literally be at least as disruptive as changing Windows' UI language to Japanese.
So how did the Average Joes manage to figure out how to use Windows 8-10?
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by GameboyRMH · 2017-03-01 11:24 · Score: 1

Well at my office we skipped over Windows 8 and went straight to 10, so there wasn't as much change coming from 7. I'm sure it cost them a few hours of befuddlement, but they can afford that when they're not under pressure to do a presentation in front of clients right away.

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by AmiMoJo · 2017-03-01 11:37 · Score: 1

In fact, in some areas no serious work gets done on Linux. A lot of embedded IDEs and tools don't work on anything other than Windows, for example. There are open source tools but they are toys in comparison.
It's the same with a lot of accounting and stock management apps. I'm sure there are many others.
It really depends on if the tools you need are available.

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const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by RightwingNutjob · 2017-03-01 13:05 · Score: 1

That's not serious work. Serious work is work that requires you to write your software, not push buttons on something someone else did the heavy lifting on. A lot of seemingly mundane old IT falls in the former category, not the latter.
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by scdeimos · 2017-03-01 14:47 · Score: 1

Putting an unfamiliar operating system on a computer they have to use would literally be at least as disruptive as changing Windows' UI language to Japanese.
Funny you mentioned that, this is exactly why so many people complained about lost productivity (and functionality) when computers were forced to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10.
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by DogDude · 2017-03-01 15:21 · Score: 1

Really smart scientists, or their graduate students, program something in Visual Basic or C# or whatever, and this becomes a distributed executable shared with others. They don't know better.

And what's wrong with their choice of tools? Why should they "know better"? Are you suggesting that VB and C# are inherently flawed tools, that nobody should use under any circumstances?

Let me guess... you're not in the private sector.

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I don't respond to AC's.
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by Obfuscant · 2017-03-01 16:20 · Score: 1

And what's wrong with their choice of tools? Why should they "know better"?

Because their use locks other users into Windows. They are sharing a tool that MUST be run on Windows if others want to run it. This is not how science is supposed to work -- everyone writing the same tools over and over because the source is unavailable and it has to run on a different system to be useful. I thought that would be obvious from the context.

Are you suggesting that VB and C# are inherently flawed tools, that nobody should use under any circumstances?

Did you see me say that? I think from the context you might have picked up that WINDOWS is an inherently flawed tool for hardcore scientific number crunching, but you focused on the symptoms and not the illness.

Let me guess... you're not in the private sector.
Let me guess, you've never had to deal with complicated software that has been developed over several years but isn't available on an open system like Linux, so you either have to spend a year reverse engineering it and writing a usable version, or put up with Windows and the problems like unstoppable reboots, or not use it at all and not make progress on your own research.
Private sector, not private sector, doesn't matter. Some tools are available only on Windows, which means you either run Windows to run them or you do without. Or try to find a budget to write your own version, if you can.
Re:What about Russian Shutdown Roulette? by sad_ · 2017-03-01 23:25 · Score: 1

Horrible, one of those things about windows that boggle my mind.
Start up laptop, it applies an update, making the whole environment slow and annoying. End of the day, shut down the pc and it says it needs to update/install whatever number of things. why do you do this, you idiot OS, i got a train to catch/appointment to be at/etc. then the next day, you start up your pc and it says - finishing applying patches/updates. REALLY? why? who made this stuff up? if this is really needed, then your OS is just faulty by design.

--
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

Stop changing what isn't broken MS. by Kitano123 · 2017-03-01 06:17 · Score: 5, Insightful

How about you just restore the exact customization options that are in previous versions of windows because that's what I want.

Re: Stop changing what isn't broken MS. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-01 06:40 · Score: 1

15 years and 20+ computers later and I have never had a virus.
In that time working as a sysadmin, and having worked with hundreds of thousands of computers, I have had to remove a grand total of 5 pieces of malicious software.
DO NOT USE 3RD PARTY ANTIVIRUS.
MSE and MBAM are more than enough.
Re:Stop changing what isn't broken MS. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-01 06:48 · Score: 2, Insightful

If Windows updates are supposed to keep you safe, then explain why there is currently a serious SMB vulnerability being exploited in the wild, that was made public in February 2 (but reported to Microsoft in December, IIRC) that STILL hasn't been fixed.
They are just prioritizing, right? Some things are more important, right? Better to ship late than to release something that doesn't work right?
That must be why an OH SO IMPORTANT update that fucks with their webcam API - that had been working since the middle ages - just HAD TO ship in its incomplete form and proceed to - surprise - fuck with their webcam API, making it impossible to your a webcam (unless it was a blessed one, apparently).
It is because of things like this that I keep the updates OFF.
Re:Stop changing what isn't broken MS. by thegarbz · 2017-03-01 07:48 · Score: 1

As much as I appreciate having control your statement will fall on flat ears. Millions of unpatched Windows machines is exactly the reason the old process was considered broken.
Re:Stop changing what isn't broken MS. by hackertourist · 2017-03-01 07:54 · Score: 1

Those customization options left you with a dialog that says 'update now/remind me in 10 minutes/4 hours', with the default set to 'update now'. So if the dialog pops up just when you press Enter, the update proceeds to reboot your system. That was better than Windows 10, but not by much.
Its saving grace was that it could be disabled with a Registry hack, allowing a sane update schedule (i.e. weekly).
Re:Stop changing what isn't broken MS. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-01 08:22 · Score: 1

I have no doubt that the webcam API bug was a side-effect of a request for an explicit NSA backdoor.
If you read what little technical information was released, it seems to relate to adding the ability to creating a copy of an already encoded video stream from a webcam. Such a feature makes remote snooping much easier as it avoids the requirement to re-encode the stream (possibly alerting the user that something is wrong with their system due to excessive CPU use) and the stream is already compressed allowing for fast network transfer and less storage.
The whole situation stinks.
Re:Stop changing what isn't broken MS. by barbariccow · 2017-03-01 09:56 · Score: 1

Their update made is to instead of apps talking directly to webcams, they instead now all go through a central microsoft-provided service. So it broke all the apps that talked directly to webcams and used certain codecs which I assume were too hard to intercept and decode at the driver level realtime AND keep the video playing realtime. You need to offload into a service so it's one constantly recorded stream instead of one direct stream and one side-channel recorded to do that. And that's what they did.
Re:Stop changing what isn't broken MS. by Trogre · 2017-03-01 12:06 · Score: 1

But go one step further and let me tell it that I don't want it to *ever* install Silverlight, and to please stop offering it every few months as a different KB.

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"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Re:Stop changing what isn't broken MS. by scdeimos · 2017-03-01 14:54 · Score: 1

Automatic updates were always turned on by default, so what you say is not quite true.
I have to call "bullshit" here. Microsoft wrote KB306525 to instruct users how to turn on Automatic Updates in Windows XP, Vista, 7 and 8.x precisely because Automatic Updates were *not* turned on by default.
It was only when Windows 10 was pending release that Microsoft started sneaking in unmarked "security update" patches that started turning on Automatic Updates for everybody and installing the Windows 10 upgrade stack.
Re:Stop changing what isn't broken MS. by Bite+The+Pillow · 2017-03-01 15:15 · Score: 1

No, because they are defragmenting the fragmented install base to eliminate as much bug hunting rework as possible.
QA suffered, with the hope that they would have to test and retest less due to a relatively monolithic base. Premature optimization. But the attempt continues, to address one platform instead of any combination of existing patches.
Wise move, poorly executed, poorly communicated.

Nope by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-01 06:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

Sorry, not good enough. I want to be able to fully control when or if my system receives updates, which specific updates it gets and when or if my system reboots. A delayed forced reboot is still a forced reboot. I only apply updates that fix a problem that I am having and 99% of all Windows update have exactly zero benefit to me. I also have some work projects where I need my computer to operate 24/7 for an indeterminate number of days or weeks.

The spyware, adware and reverting configurations needs to end too.

Re: Nope by technosaurus · 2017-03-01 07:44 · Score: 2

I resorted to disabling svchost.exe from accessing the network. Now I just restore access when I want to update. It probably cuts off other MS services too, but none that I use or want.
Re:Nope by Gravis+Zero · 2017-03-01 07:58 · Score: 1

There is a fix for all of those problems, it's called Linux. :)

--
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Re:Nope by erapert · 2017-03-01 08:05 · Score: 1

I also use Windows for the things that I cannot do on the other OS because it lacks the software.
What specific software are you using on Windows? Perhaps we can help find a solution for you that will run on Linux.
At worst you only spend a couple seconds telling us. At best you gain freedom.

Today's Windows 10 update workaround by xxxJonBoyxxx · 2017-03-01 06:18 · Score: 4, Informative

1) Use a wireless connection
2) Lie to the OS and tell it it's a "metered" connection
3) Tell the update manager to not download uploads over metered connections

I remember I put this into place when I just wanted to hop on my Windows 10 gaming desktop and play some FPS before bed. If Windows updates were active, they'd stupidly try to download at the same time, which would also excite the AV components, and cause lag enough to get me killed over and over again.

Re:Today's Windows 10 update workaround by sexconker · 2017-03-01 07:01 · Score: 2

I just wanted to hop on my Windows 10 gaming desktop and play some FPS before bed. If Windows updates were active, they'd stupidly try to download at the same time, which would also excite the AV components, and cause lag enough to get me killed over and over again.
Sounds like you need to git gud.
Re:Today's Windows 10 update workaround by thegarbz · 2017-03-01 07:50 · Score: 1

No need to use a wireless connection. You can set metered as the system default through the registry on weird and Bluetooth connections too.
The latter, I.e. the only fucking metered connection I've ever used is the reason I looked for this seeing in the first place.
Re:Today's Windows 10 update workaround by erapert · 2017-03-01 09:28 · Score: 1

Think about the absurdity of needing to trick your own OS into behaving the way you want or need it to.
Why not just use a different or better OS?
Re:Today's Windows 10 update workaround by Grishnakh · 2017-03-01 10:46 · Score: 1

Because people are gluttons for punishment and abuse, and would feel lost and empty without it.

Assumptions by Fire_Wraith · 2017-03-01 06:31 · Score: 1

How about not assuming that my machine needs to be able to reboot itself randomly whenever I'm not there to click?

I don't care if you make that the default, but as a power user, I want the ability to change the settings because I know best for my situation, far moreso than some "one size fits all" mandated by Redmond.

Re:Assumptions by scdeimos · 2017-03-01 09:54 · Score: 1

How about making the "Reboot Now" button the default one on the query dialog? That regularly trips up people typing away without watching what's happening on the screen.

Unexpected Reboots are Disruptive by LeftCoastThinker · 2017-03-01 06:33 · Score: 1

"... unexpected reboots are disruptive if they happen at the wrong time."

No shit Sherlock. A 5 year old could figure that out in 2 minutes and this has been the case since Windows XP. The truth is your users are rebelling because you are were taking an FU we do what we want approach to your customers and MS is discovering that with tablets and smartphones and Windows 7 install base, most customers are not all that locked into MS products.

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If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like

Re:Unexpected Reboots are Disruptive by Grishnakh · 2017-03-01 11:09 · Score: 1

The truth is your users are rebelling because you are were taking an FU we do what we want approach to your customers and MS is discovering that with tablets and smartphones and Windows 7 install base, most customers are not all that locked into MS products.
Oh please. The consumers are bitching and complaining, and you're right, they didn't buy into MS smartphones, but overall they're all adopting Windows 10 for their PCs/laptops. Sure, some people are sticking with Win7 for now, but they saw the same thing with XP. They all eventually came around and moved to 7; they'll do the same with 10.
The users aren't "rebelling", they're whining. If they were rebelling, they wouldn't be using Windows any more.
Re:Unexpected Reboots are Disruptive by Obfuscant · 2017-03-01 16:31 · Score: 1

They all eventually came around and moved to 7; they'll do the same with 10.
I will buy a system with Windows 10 on it only after I can no longer buy one with 7 or cannot put 7 on it. I have "updated" my last system to 10, and did so only because I have to support people who make bad choices for their computers.

If they were rebelling, they wouldn't be using Windows any more.
It must be marvelous to live in a world where the computer operating system exists just to exist, and not to be a tool that is used to run programs that do something productive. Yes, Windows 10 is a wonderful operating system for a computer that needs do nothing except ... run Windows 10.
Or maybe the world you live in doesn't recognize that some of those productive things a computer needs to do are only available for Windows? I get it; you don't need anything that isn't available in some version on linux and don't have any Windows systems, and that means nobody else needs programs that run only on Windows, either.

Don't fucking reboot by iamacat · 2017-03-01 06:38 · Score: 4, Insightful

If you are going to insist on automatic updates, ensure that they can be applied to a running system, up to hotswapping parts of the kernel. Or just back off. My system is not a toy and is certainly not your toy. You don't get to decide if I get interrupted either today or 3 days later,

Re:Don't fucking reboot by StormReaver · 2017-03-01 08:15 · Score: 2

You don't get to decide if I get interrupted either today or 3 days later....
Since you're still using Windows after all these years of Microsoft doing those very things, you have informed Microsoft over the years that it does indeed get to decide if you get interrupted either today or 3 days later. You have indicated that you will accept it, you will like it, and you will always come back asking for more abuse.
Microsoft knows that you are its slaughter sheep, and it will continue treating you as such until you stand up for yourself and switch to something else. Otherwise, you are just pissing into the wind and getting colored yellow.
Re:Don't fucking reboot by iamacat · 2017-03-01 08:16 · Score: 1

Since you're still using Windows after all these years of Microsoft doing those very things
Where did you get this impression?
Re:Don't fucking reboot by Obfuscant · 2017-03-01 10:26 · Score: 1

Since you're still using Windows after all these years of Microsoft doing those very things,
Windows 10 debuted July of 2015. That means it has been a total of about 19 months that anyone has been using it. Where do you get "all these years" from?
Oh, you didn't realize that the first thing many people (including me) did when getting a new Windows machine was to turn off automatic updates. No, you don't get to count "all those years" of using Windows before 10 as proof that everyone who uses Windows loves and accepts automatic updates and reboots.

You have indicated that you will accept it, you will like it,

Wrong.
Re:Don't fucking reboot by Grishnakh · 2017-03-01 11:13 · Score: 1

You're the one whining, as seen in your original post with your grandstanding statement "You don't get to decide if I get interrupted either today or 3 days later,". Yes, MS *does* get to decide that. If you use their OS, then you've implicitly given them that power to decide.
If were weren't using Windows, you wouldn't be bitching and complaining about this, because it wouldn't affect you. I don't use Windows on my personal systems, so you won't hear me complaining about their update policies, because it doesn't affect me. I just sit back and laugh at Windows users as they whine about it, while refusing to abandon a vendor that treats them so poorly. Personally, I wish MS would treat them even worse.

Still using Version 1511 by chewie2010 · 2017-03-01 06:43 · Score: 1

Version 1511 (build 10.0.10586) works great. Turn off all the updates and Windows Defender and Windows 10 flys! https://www.howtogeek.com/howt... https://www.howtogeek.com/2244...

Wheres the delay indefinitely option by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-01 06:45 · Score: 3, Interesting

Oh it exisits, it's called Windows 7, which market share increased this month. Even Windows XP is still at 8% market share three years after end of support. This all shows the failure of Microsoft.

Microsoft really know their stuff! by admin7087 · 2017-03-01 06:47 · Score: 3, Insightful

"We also heard that unexpected reboots are disruptive if they happen at the wrong time."

Who would have thought that?

Now they just have to figure out how to disable all telemetry in Windows 10, and I might even start to use it!

Re:Hey Sysadmins... by Bugler412 · 2017-03-01 06:49 · Score: 1

that's cool, we'll do the same, en masse, the entire department kicking you in the balls, when your PC gets compromised because you refused to install updates.

Not good enough! by prunus.avium · 2017-03-01 06:57 · Score: 2

Give me control as to when to download the update.

I have a metered connection that is unlimited between 2:00am and 6:00am. Let me schedule the download so I don't burn through my available bandwidth with OS updates!

And don't hog my bandwidth when I'm actively using the computer!

Installing and reboots are the least of my concerns.

Re:Not good enough! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-01 07:09 · Score: 1

That's easy. Schedule a task to start and stop the windows update service.
Re:Not good enough! by neilo_1701D · 2017-03-01 07:20 · Score: 3, Informative

That's easy. Schedule a task to start and stop the windows update service.
Don't forget BITS. WUService might do the checking, bit it's BITS that actually moves the data.

Not good for the enterprise... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-03-01 06:59 · Score: 1

When my employer switched from SCCM 2007 to SCCM 2012, the patch team was surprised to discover that users could set their own work hours for when the system couldn't be patched. That feature could screw up the mandatory 6PM-12AM maintenance window and leave systems out of compliance. A fix was implemented to prevent user from using that feature.

Re:Not good for the enterprise... by spire3661 · 2017-03-01 07:15 · Score: 1

The difference here is that the employer owns the machine and sets the schedule, not MS. I have no problem with companies implementing changes like this on their own hardware...I have a problem with MS deciding when and how my machine updates.

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Good-bye
Re:Not good for the enterprise... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-03-01 07:24 · Score: 2

I have a problem with MS deciding when and how my machine updates.
Tell that to the user who believes that their employer-provided workstation belongs to them, them alone and no one else. They don't like being reminded that their employer could easily replace their workstation with a box of crayons and still expect them to get the job done with that.
Re:Not good for the enterprise... by operagost · 2017-03-01 08:31 · Score: 1

Or you could have done the smart thing, and change your "mandatory" maintenance window (someone has authority to change it-- who is it?) to 24 hours, then set the work hours on ALL machines through the GPO.

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Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Re:Not good for the enterprise... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-03-01 14:40 · Score: 1

Or you could have done the smart thing, and change your "mandatory" maintenance window (someone has authority to change it-- who is it?) to 24 hours, then set the work hours on ALL machines through the GPO.
Probably not a wise idea with 80,000+ workstations in three time zones across the Western US.

The real question is... by evolutionary · 2017-03-01 07:01 · Score: 2

Why on earth would anyone in their right mind allow a system to "randomly" reboot in the first place...

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"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein

Re:The real question is... by Oswald+McWeany · 2017-03-01 07:04 · Score: 2

Because they hate humanity and want it to suffer.

--
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Re:The real question is... by whoever57 · 2017-03-01 07:37 · Score: 1

Because Microsoft has realized (a long time ago) that their users actually appreciate being screwed over.
What I see is that most Windows users have such low expectations for the way their computer works, yet are opposed to alternatives. There is some strong cognitive dissonance involved.
Not everyone is a gamer who plays games that only run under Windows, or uses Photoshop. Most users today just need a browser and perhaps an email client.

--
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Re:The real question is... by jader3rd · 2017-03-01 10:02 · Score: 1

Why on earth would anyone in their right mind allow a system to "randomly" reboot in the first place...
It doesn't. When an update is discovered, its downloaded to the computer when not using a metered connection. Then the user is notified for three days that a reboot is pending. If the user doesn't reboot, it will only issue a reboot during scheduled hours, based off of the computers activity history.

Obligatory by JustAnotherOldGuy · 2017-03-01 07:11 · Score: 5, Insightful

Obligatory "Are they not merciful?" post.

Wow, Microsoft is letting ME have a little more control of MY computer.

My Benevolence-O-Meter may not be able to withstand such punishment.

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Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...

So- by IWantMoreSpamPlease · 2017-03-01 07:20 · Score: 1

Still beta software then eh?

--
So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.

Fire this guy just for being a putz by hyades1 · 2017-03-01 07:23 · Score: 4, Informative

John Cable, Microsoft's Windows director of program management: "We also heard that unexpected reboots are disruptive if they happen at the wrong time."

I'll guess I'll be sending in my application for a top job at Microsoft. I don't know jack shit about programming, but clearly that's not a requirement for pulling down top dollar in a position that is ALL ABOUT EFFING COMPUTER PROGRAMS.

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I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.

That they have to have this explained to them by taustin · 2017-03-01 07:35 · Score: 1

Tells us that Microsoft's executive staff is accustomed to having their PCs reboot at random times, with no option to have whatever they're working on, and being unavailable for extended periods of time while it does.

Which tells us a great deal about Microsoft, and Windows. (And how important the work their executive are doing really is.)

Golly, thanks Microsoft by Joshs922 · 2017-03-01 07:45 · Score: 1

So nice of them to give us 3 days and no more to accept the updates and reboot! Microsoft: "All your computers are belong to us"

...Or just do what we've been doing until now by ControversyDaily · 2017-03-01 07:47 · Score: 1

and stop pesky auto-updates alltogether. Grown-ups are capable updating their windows regularly on their own, no need to "feed" the updates

What a PR crap.... by herve_masson · 2017-03-01 07:54 · Score: 1

"We also heard that unexpected reboots are disruptive if they happen at the wrong time"

No, kidding.. Good to know you are able to "hear" things :P

That's not an ideological point or anything, it's just that when I'm at work, believe it or not, I don't want my laptop to reboot and halt my apps.
How come bright people at Microsoft thought I would feel different ?? Total mistery to me...
WHat is the purpose of doing those unwanted reboots ? A taste to make my life harder ? A reminder to override with linux ? Seriously....

Selectively Enable/Disable Windows Update Service by orin · 2017-03-01 07:58 · Score: 1

Set the Windows Update service to a disabled state. Once Patch Tuesday has come and gone, enable it when you have a moment and then manually check for updates. When updates have installed, reset Windows Update service to disabled.

I've been waiting for another update by TimothyHollins · 2017-03-01 07:59 · Score: 1

I'm more interested in when Linux can make it easy for me to stop using Windows.

I would love nothing more than a fully game-functional OS that doesn't come with a Bill Gates buttsexing me.

Re:I've been waiting for another update by Greyfox · 2017-03-01 08:16 · Score: 1

There are a good number of Linux-compatible titles on Steam these days. Way more games than there were for OSX when I had my brief flirtation with Apple hardware in the 2000's. And way, way more than there were on Linux, back in the heyday of Loki games. You can run the steam ones with no fuckery whatsover. If you don't mind a little fuckery, I hear you can get at least a couple of the MMOs working with wine. Dunno about Skyrim, though. Haven't tried my VR headset on Linux yet, either, although apparently Valve just released the stuff for that a week or two ago. One of these days I'll plug my Vive into my Linux laptop and take a crack at it.

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I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

Channeling? by JustAnotherOldGuy · 2017-03-01 08:02 · Score: 1

John Cable: "We also heard that unexpected reboots are disruptive if they happen at the wrong time"

Donald Trump: "Nobody knew health care could be so complicated"

Is John Cable channeling Donald Trump? Because these two statements are horrifyingly similar in that they both show an almost unheard of level of cluelessness.

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Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...

Disable Windows Update by dryo · 2017-03-01 08:06 · Score: 1

It's so simple, just disable the Windows Update service. Turn it back on when you want to check for updates. This works on all versions, including Windows 10 Home. I don't understand why NO journalist has EVER mentioned this. Oh, wait, I know... because tech journalists are totally ignorant of the technology they are covering.

Also, check the Task Scheduler for fascist update programs like AMD Updater, which AFAIK cannot be disabled any other way.

Are they serious? by DontBeAMoran · 2017-03-01 08:10 · Score: 1

"We also heard that unexpected reboots are disruptive if they happen at the wrong time."

Really? You needed users to actually tell you this?

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#DeleteFacebook

The absolute worst feature of Windows by linuxguy · 2017-03-01 08:48 · Score: 1

There are plenty of issues in Windows, but for me personally, this is the absolute worst offender. The OS should never ever reboot my computer without my explicit permission. Specially when I have a tonne of stuff open. Just copy how Mac OS handles this. It is OK to periodically remind me that I need to reboot. But never proceed to do it when and as you see fit. Your guesses on when it is OK to do so are going to be wrong. Resists the temptation. Again, copy Mac OS in this regard. If they can get it right. You can too.

Re:The absolute worst feature of Windows by erapert · 2017-03-01 09:30 · Score: 1

Or better yet, copy how most Linux distros do this: never reboot and never nag me to update in the first place (unless I opt-in to the nagging).
Re:The absolute worst feature of Windows by Obfuscant · 2017-03-01 16:48 · Score: 1

It is OK to periodically remind me that I need to reboot.
Yeah, handle it like Norton 360 does. It does it so nicely. Here's what it does:
1. As soon as the user sits down to do any work on the system, pop up a window with a default "reboot now" option telling the user the system needs to be rebooted to update the anti-virus.
2. Offer an option to be reminded in a few different numbers of hours, such as "24 hours". When that time expires, go back to 1.
3. After rebooting to update the AV, within 24 hours go back to step 1, nagging the user that the system needs to be rebooted again to update the AV.
I love step 1. I REALLY love step 3.

Huh? by cppmonkey · 2017-03-01 09:01 · Score: 1

The are making it easy to kinda sorta mitigate a problem they created by not thinking through a design decision?. No a snooze button is not the answer. Reboot only upon user interaction would be making it easy to avoid unwanted reboots. Snooze just kicks the unwanted reboot down the road.

Funny by lapm · 2017-03-01 09:04 · Score: 1

Maybe finally it docent try to reboot everytime i come from nightshift. Microsoft newer sees to amaze me how stupid things they do...

I have a better solution by WillAffleckUW · 2017-03-01 09:05 · Score: 1

It's called the power switch.

Then it's really shutdown.

No power, no updates.

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-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --

I see you installed some new old hardware by raymorris · 2017-03-01 10:21 · Score: 1

> uptime
16:51:37 up 107 days, 5:01

Looks like you installed some new hardware in December, eh? Was that a new CPU or some odd hardware that doesn't support hotplug?

I hate it when a PCI-e card doesn't support hotplug and I end having to reboot like some caveman running Windows.

Re: I see you installed some new old hardware by silentcoder · 2017-03-02 00:12 · Score: 1

Everything is hot-swappable if your hands can move faster than an electron.

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Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Re: I see you installed some new old hardware by Black+LED · 2017-03-02 16:19 · Score: 1

I used to work with a hardware engineer who hot swapped ISA cards all of the time because the switch for his buffer card was hard to reach and he had to diagnose dozens of cards per day. There was never a problem.

I just want two things by SmilingBoy · 2017-03-01 10:30 · Score: 1

It is very rare that I don't shut down my computer properly overnight. So I want to simply turn off automatic reboots completely. The second thing I don't like is when I turn on my computer in the morning, I need to wait a minute while it is applying updates. When I say "update and shutdown", why can't the computer update, shutdown, restart, fully apply all updates, and shut down again when done?

This update rebooted without asking me by _Shorty-dammit · 2017-03-01 10:30 · Score: 1

This very update rebooted without asking me last night. *laugh*

Make the delay user configurable by jonwil · 2017-03-01 10:44 · Score: 1

Make it so that you can tell Windows 10 to wait before rebooting for a user-configurable amount of time (anywhere from 1 hour to 3 days) with a "do it now" button you can activate anytime before the set time (i.e. if you know you dont need the PC for a while)

Re:Make the delay user configurable by Opportunist · 2017-03-01 12:36 · Score: 1

Not acceptable.
Acceptable is me choosing when to reboot after an update. It's fine to remind me that it's necessary from time to time (read: once or twice a day), but it is UNACCEPTABLE to reboot it now, tomorrow or anytime without my explicit consent.

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.

Re:Turn it all off by Opportunist · 2017-03-01 12:31 · Score: 1

Thanks for berating us. But heavens forbid you actually tell us how to do it!

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.

Translation by Opportunist · 2017-03-01 12:34 · Score: 3, Funny

Well, fuck. Even the shills we have hired at various Microsoft-praise-sites are now bashing us for rebooting their machines at random. So we decided to tone it back a notch, hoping that this will appease enough people to the level where they're probably pissed at us for rebooting their machines but not enough to actually consider switching to a system where they got control.

Let's see whether that's enough to make them shut up.

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.

Re:Aready has a setting like this by Opportunist · 2017-03-01 12:38 · Score: 1

Ok. My active hours are 0 to 24, Mon-Sun. During those times I get to decide when and how to reboot my machine. Outside that time frame you can reboot whenever you please.

That I could accept.

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.

Re:11 hour "in use" window by Opportunist · 2017-03-01 12:40 · Score: 1

Still not good enough.

Tell me there is an update and I'll choose when to apply them and when/if rebooting is a good idea.

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We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.

3D Printing Fail by adjustinthings · 2017-03-01 14:15 · Score: 3, Insightful

I was 3d printing an very large object on my printer and the print time was 21 hours. I was checking on it all day (its really fun to watch) and then finally after it was printing for 18 hours I walk back in to the room and see my printer sitting there motionless and my computer had an 'updates were installed' message waiting for me. THANKS WINDOWS 10, that was super important.

About F*cking Time! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-03-01 17:16 · Score: 1

I cannot tell you how pissed I am that Windows 10 reboots your computer for updates and no way to cancel it. What if you are working!!!! I work as a contractor and need my computer 24 hours a day. I am always working. Even when I am asleep my system is transferring data, uploading projects or downloading new content. 2 times I was right in the middle of a long days work with many applications open over 4 monitors and on a skype call with some major players for the contract and my Windows 10 popped-up a window saying the system was going to reboot, the only options were "reboot now" or "close". The first time it shocked me, (I was used to Windows Allowing me to delay the reboot), I franticly looked for the cancel button or the delay for 2 or 3 hours when I would be done but could not find it. I had to continue with the call so I clicked on the "close" and continued to work. 15 minutes later without warning the computer rebooted. When the machine came back on line I tried to get in the Skype call as soon as possible but they had ended the call. I franticly opened up my projects and found that I lost data because I was updating them while we were talking about the project. I called one of the engineers that was on the project and he said that hanging up like that is beyond rude in their culture, but they gave me a chance to reconnect for about 2 minutes, in case it was an internet bump. It took me about 10 minutes total by the time Windows finished it's updates before I could use the machine. I wanted to direct call them but all my contact information for them is on my computer so by the time I had called them directly they would not take my call. The Engineer told me to not call again because they sent out and email stating I was no longer part of the project. I checked my email and I was removed from the project without pay! I lost $20,000 US!!! I was pissed!

I called Microsoft that day and spent 2 hours on the phone with support to fix the problem so I would never happen again. The Microsoft tech changed a few registry keys and said that would stop the machine from rebooting until I told it to do so. Basically I would get the updates and they would install but the machine would not reboot, I would get a message telling me I need to reboot. Then I could reboot anytime I was ready. Guess what? It did not work. Again I was in the middle of a huge project and the update pop-up greeted me with "reboot now" or "close". I clicked the close and looked for a way to stop the machine. I could not find it so I started saving all my projects and preparing for the reboot. Sure enough after 15 minutes the machine rebooted! I was pissed and again on the phone with Microsoft and they looked at the same registry settings, I told them they don't work. After about 2 hours they gave up.

This will be a welcome change if they do it right. I would like to see the following added.

#1 Let you set the hours of operation to anything even 24 hours a day. This would make the system prompt you for approval for any reboot and if you are not there to answer the pop-up the system does NOTHING!!
#2 Let you completely disable it if you want to, with a stern warning.
#3 Let you take the updates if you want them and schedule a reboot, even a day or week later. Should be minutes, hours, days, weeks, up to 8 weeks or something.
#4 Let you cancel them completely and no reboot ever. You are prompted for a reboot and you can cancel it and you NEVER have to reboot.
#5 Some settings in-between, like when to download them, when to install them, how to install (while working or when idle etc.) Reboot or not, or never reboot, reminders to reboot (on/off) etc.

No. No. No. Microsoft by silentcoder · 2017-03-02 00:06 · Score: 1

That's not good enough. Not "snooze" and then wait for three days. You NEVER get to reboot a customer's computer without his explicite consent- it's HIS computer not YOURS.

If you really won't do what linux does and give him a nice little notice that says "updates available - install at your convenience" then you can pop up to say "Updates here, may I reboot? " and if the user says no, ask again tomorrow- but NEVER go ahead without his permission.

There is nothing more fucking anoying than having your OS randomly reboot in the middle of you trying to do work. It should never happen.

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Unicode killed the ASCII-art *

You do have control by dkone · 2017-03-02 00:56 · Score: 1

I agree with most of the MS bashing comments here, but you DO have control over updates. Turn the 'windows update' service to disabled. Now you have total control over when you get updates. So really quit bitching about this, it is really a non-issue for anyone that has the slightest bit of knowledge about Windows.

So what is the big deal? by RespekMyAthorati · 2017-03-02 19:04 · Score: 1

Just stop windows update service until you are ready to do an update. See Kill Windows Update

Re:Directors by hyades1 · 2017-03-03 10:11 · Score: 1

But every now and again, one of them comes up with a statement like this, blatantly exhibiting naked stupidity. I won't say it makes it all worthwhile, but at least it softens the pain a little.

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I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.

Who'd a thunk it? by chopthechops · 2017-03-06 00:17 · Score: 1

"We also heard that unexpected reboots are disruptive if they happen at the wrong time." These guys really know their stuff.

Slashdot Mirror

Microsoft is Making It Easy To Stop Windows 10 Rebooting Your PC Randomly For Updates (theverge.com)

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