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WikiLeaks CIA Files: The 6 Biggest Spying Secrets Revealed By the Release of 'Vault 7' (independent.co.uk)

Earlier today, WikiLeaks unleashed a cache of thousands of files it calls "Year Zero," which is part one of the release associated with "Vault 7." Since there are over 8,000 pages in this release, it will take some time for journalists to comb through the release. The Independent has highlighted six of the "biggest secrets and pieces of information yet to emerge from the huge dump" in their report. 1) The CIA has the ability to break into Android and iPhone handsets, and all kinds of computers. The U.S. intelligence agency has been involved in a concerted effort to write various kinds of malware to spy on just about every piece of electronic equipment that people use. That includes iPhones, Androids and computers running Windows, macOS and Linux.
2) Doing so would make apps like Signal, Telegram and WhatsApp entirely insecure. Encrypted messaging apps are only as secure as the devices they are used on -- if an operating system is compromised, then the messages can be read before they are encrypted and sent to the other user(s).
3) The CIA could use smart TVs to listen in on conversations that happened around them. One of the most eye-catching programs detailed in the documents is "Weeping Angel." That allows intelligence agencies to install special software that allows TVs to be turned into listening devices -- so that even when they appear to be switched off, they're actually on.
4) The agency explored hacking into cars and crashing them, allowing "nearly undetectable assassinations." Many of the documents reference tools that appear to have dangerous and unknown uses. One file, for instance, shows that the CIA was looking into ways of remotely controlling cars and vans by hacking into them.
5) The CIA hid vulnerabilities that could be used by hackers from other countries or governments. Such bugs were found in the biggest consumer electronics in the world, including phones and computers made Apple, Google and Microsoft. But those companies didn't get the chance to fix those exploits because the agency kept them secret in order to keep using them, the documents suggest.
6) More information is coming. The documents have still not been looked through entirely. There are 8,378 pages of files, some of which have already been analyzed but many of which haven't. And that's not to mention the other sets of documents that are coming. The "Year Zero" leaks are just the first in a series of "Vault 7" dumps, Julian Assange said.
You can view the Vault 7 Part 1 'Year Zero' release here via WikiLeaks. The Intercept has an in-depth report focusing on how the "CIA Could Turn Smart TVs Into Listening Devices."

457 comments

  1. now we know why tech is protected by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    why no trust-busting. why no common carrier. why no nothing which would prevent "wire-tapping".

    1. Re:now we know why tech is protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Why is no one pointing out that this was on Obama's watch?

      Secret assassinations? Seriously?

    2. Re: now we know why tech is protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assassinations are always secret.

    3. Re: now we know why tech is protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because it's the CIA and they're supposed to do all that shit.

    4. Re:now we know why tech is protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a moron.

      Sincerely, Princess Diana.

    5. Re:now we know why tech is protected by pslytely+psycho · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because it was on every sitting presidents watch since the formation of government?
      As far as the electronics hacking goes, ever since electronics became a thing.
      Hell, Nixon got caught up in early electronic eavesdropping,
      This isn't new knowledge, just confirmation of what has been suspected all along.

      Vault 7 sounds like a great title for a new TV series...

      --
      Donald Trump, on a crusade to make Nixon look respectable
    6. Re:now we know why tech is protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, Your Royal Highness the Princess,

      GP may be a moron, but you're dead. Please stay dead. We loved you.

    7. Re:now we know why tech is protected by davester666 · · Score: 2

      Everything described is EXACTLY what the CIA is expected to do. It is literally their job to spy on other people.

      If Wikileaks publishes something along the lines of the CIA using these tools on people within the US, then that would be something that is notable (and illegal).

      Now the NSA having these tools is more problematic, as they are tasked with both spying on others for USA's economic gain, but it is also their job to secure America from foreign espionage, so keeping software vulnerabilities (which pretty much all of these tools depends on) secret aids in part of their job, but hinders the other... The CIA doesn't have this issue.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    8. Re:now we know why tech is protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They used it on everyone in the world. Their malware doesn't make any distinction between US and foreign soil.

      This is casus belli to dismantle the CIA. Let us hope that Trump acts on this. These are not good people, and they have done ZERO good for the US since they were created. Their only effect is to weaken democracies around the world, causing governments to switch to dictatorship models so they can easier defend themselves against these covert attacks. They are a force for global destabilization, and produce nothing but misery wherever they set foot.

    9. Re:now we know why tech is protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't count on that. Trump's stance on privacy is pretty much "If you have nothing to hide..."

      At least his stance on that is fairly consistent: he doesn't plan to abuse the data gathered. If your file is merely embarrassing as opposed to criminal, you have nothing to fear. Doesn't mean his lackeys or his successor won't try to use it, but at least that's not the main direction, just stuff falling through the cracks.

      (tl;dr situation is bad but not terrible.)

    10. Re:now we know why tech is protected by bughunter · · Score: 1

      Is there any exploit sharing between CIA and NSA?

      Can you say 'no' with confidence?

      If those exploits are out there, then they'll be used. Domestic or foreign. Like in the San Bernadino case.

      --
      I can see the fnords!
    11. Re:now we know why tech is protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the NSA ... are tasked with both spying on others for USA's economic gain ...

      Huh?

    12. Re:now we know why tech is protected by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      Why is no one pointing out that this was on Obama's watch?

      Secret assassinations? Seriously?

      If you want to blame a President, blame Harry Truman. The CIA got off the leash not long after it was created.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    13. Re: now we know why tech is protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize Obama has personally allowed the assassination of an US citizen via drone before right? Its been covered in mainstream news for a while now.

      Google Anwar al-Awlaki and his son.

    14. Re:now we know why tech is protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought Vault 7 was a new Fallout 4 DLC... :(

    15. Re: now we know why tech is protected by Time_Ngler · · Score: 2

      More like the prequel to Fallout IRL

    16. Re:now we know why tech is protected by _KiTA_ · · Score: 1

      No need to. The CIA created an entire new NSA inside the CIA. Called CCI (Center for Cyber Intelligence) it was technically under the CIA so it's not subject to the disclosure rules the NSA was... and they just didn't tell anyone that they were doing it so the disclosure rules the CIA was under didn't matter, either.

    17. Re:now we know why tech is protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They did. And people were concerned when it was on Obama's watch. Now they're terrified that it's on Trump's watch.

    18. Re: now we know why tech is protected by piojo · · Score: 1

      Assassinations are always secret.

      Try telling that to Alexander Litvinenko!

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
    19. Re: now we know why tech is protected by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      No, it was not. This has been going on for decades

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    20. Re:now we know why tech is protected by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      Is there any exploit sharing between CIA and NSA?

      If you have good hacking tools, you can get other orgs to "share" everything they have with you.

    21. Re:now we know why tech is protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Vault 7"...where the hackers and aliens now report to Mulder, who must expose the news about "the Russians".

      Brought to you by Alka-Seltzer, for the never-ending headache and nausea it gives us all.

    22. Re:now we know why tech is protected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everything described is EXACTLY what the CIA is expected to do. It is literally their job to spy on other people.

      If Wikileaks publishes something along the lines of the CIA using these tools on people within the US, then that would be something that is notable (and illegal).

      It may be expected that they do or attempt to do the things described in the article, but it is still illegal. I am not aware of any jurisdiction where it is legal for a foreign government agency to spy on citizens in the ways described.

      Now the NSA having these tools is more problematic, as they are tasked with both spying on others for USA's economic gain

      This alone makes it a criminal organisation in many countries. Not a problem as long as they don't do anything in those countries, but I am pretty sure they have been cought doing so and they probably do much more criminal stuff than we know about.

    23. Re:now we know why tech is protected by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Sure it's illegal to spy in other countries, but that's their problem to figure out who's doing what (if they aren't actively partnering with either agency). But them doing it isn't a surprise either to US citizens or foreign governments.

      But what isn't in wikileaks, and all kinds of wack jobs have implying that they are linked, is that the CIA have been using these on American's in the US and the real wack jobs saying the CIA was/is using these tools to spy on Trump (because Trump's tweets about being spyed on and the release of this information happened close together in time).

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  2. Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    There is no surprise...

    1. Re:Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I am surprised that anyone would continue to risk themselves and leak this kind of information, since we have seen how willing the public is to stand up and defend its whistle-blowers (which is to say, not at all).

    2. Re:Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact this post is only modded 1 goes to show how true this is.

    3. Re:Surprise! by Camel+Pilot · · Score: 1

      Seriously... a spy agency has spy tools. Do the idiots expressing outrage here think that other countries don't have similar set of tools. Why would they want the US to be de-fanged in this area?

    4. Re: Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And now that it's +5, does that prove how false it is?

    5. Re:Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is what makes it all the more likely this is state sponsored by Assange's Kremlin backers.

      Wikileaks has effectively become Putin's frontline tool in his war against America's security apparatus and the US seems entirely unable to counter it. That's the real reason America is fucked right now, because it's security services have been infiltrated at every level.

      Whilst I agree Snowden was right to uncover much of what he did, I'd wager he perhaps inadvertently gave Russia's FSB everything they needed to know to infiltrate the entirety of America's security services, hence why we're seeing this that goes far beyond simply highlighting security service overreach, and eliminates their entire ability to operate doing the job they're supposed to be doing (i.e. spying) making America massively vulnerable to both state and non-state actors.

      The fact security services have zero days, and carry out targetted attacks against intelligence targets shouldn't be a surprise or shock anyone, it's their very job. This sort of leak isn't the same as exposing widespread surveillance of innocent people or the entire populace, no, this is an attempt to destroy the US security services ability to operate at all.

      Between this and Trump being a Russian puppet I think it's clear Putin just won the cold war for Russia after all. I'll give him credit, it was very well played, but Americans should be disturbed as fuck by this - you no longer have any effective security services, they've been compromised root and branch.

    6. Re:Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If foreign countries murdered people in the US by electronically hijacking their cars, as the US recently did with Putin's chauffeur, we would be at war with them the next day.

      No, we are the only ones doing things like this.

    7. Re:Surprise! by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Well, let me use that one argument so often cited by American politicians:

      "If you have nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear."

      It's equally OK for CIA to be spying using dubiously legal and moral techniques, as is for Russia to spy on CIA and publish what they get. All legal moves in this game of chess, you play dirty you risk your dirt is used against you.

      Yes, the revelations are quite unsurprising. CIA is rarely "good guys" and about never "nice guys". They do their job by ways that work, not necessarily by ways that are legal, beneficial to the wide public or morally positive. We know. Situation nominal, all fucked up.

      It's just that there's absolutely no point getting outraged that someone (especially Russia!) is showing what CIA is doing. This is also situation nominal.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    8. Re:Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's sort of the definition of "hero" - someone willing to sacrifice in order to do the right thing.

    9. Re:Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I, for one, am glad that there are still courageous patriots amongst us who are willing to risk all to expose the government's malfeasance.

    10. Re: Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assange back d by Russia? Your stupidity is at ghr quantum hyper level

    11. Re:Surprise! by citylivin · · Score: 1

      I assume that the government is run just as sloppily as most corporations I have worked for. I doubt people are taking much personal risk. I doubt they audit every file copy that happens, and even if they did, it could have come off a going bad raid drive thats mirrored and not encrypted at all and sent for destruction.

      There are always people who are above the rules and audits. There are always people who see whats going on around them, and don't like it. It only takes one person who cant sleep at night because of it, to cause a leak. If the corporation or government that you work for is behaving illegally or immorally, its even easier to justify your own illegal behaviour.

      Its fairly easy to commit crimes undetected if you don't go around bragging about them and cover your bases. Or so I have heard...

      --
      As a potential lottery winner, I totally support tax cuts for the wealthy
    12. Re: Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, EVERYONE is trying to do this stuff. The US is just better at it than most.

    13. Re: Surprise! by Time_Ngler · · Score: 1

      If an employee of an auto mechanic shop runs a chop shop for stolen cars at night, is everything "nominal" as long as they leave a mysterious wad of cash on the frontdesk every morning?

      The CIA isn't supposed to develop their own hacking tools. They're supposed to use the tools developed by the NSA instead, but that would require some oversight.

      This is a power grab by the CIA. They want control over the very politicians that are supposed to lead them. Why else would Trump, who has something to say about everything else, be completely mum on the subject?

    14. Re: Surprise! by SharpFang · · Score: 1

      Yeah, Pretorian Guard, meant to protect the emperor of Rome, and doing so as long as the emperor is the Guard's obedient puppet, killing him as soon as he shows any signs of independence. Quite nominal, and thoroughly fucked up.

      It's not about seeing a wad of cash on the frontdesk, it's about living to see another day, knowing you'll get a bullet to the back of your head as soon as you so much as suggest you don't like it that way.

      Supposedly this year Kennedy assassination files are to be declassified. I'm reaaaaally curious if that will happen.

      --
      45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    15. Re:Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you say is fine if every country is on a level playing field, but when one country has a leaky security services, where every secret is known such that they can't operate effectively anymore, and another is completely opaque and nothing is known, then you're not better off, because whilst you think you now know everything that's going on, because your security services are entirely open, you're oblivious to the fact that opposing security services are operating within your country manipulating things without the transparency you so desperately proclaim to want.

      The US election was a fine example - the DNC hacks meant you had complete transparency of the Democratic proposal for president, whilst you have absolutely no transparency of the Republican candidate - not even something as basic as a tax return. The net result? The Republican candidate wins, because transparency vs. opaqueness, opaqueness wins no matter how much you proclaim the importance of transparency. This despite the fact Trump's team were clearly hiding a lot more serious things which are now slowly trickling out from Pence and Trump's use of private e-mail like Clinton, to many of his candidates being proxies for the Russian security services that have now defacto taken control of key posts within your country.

      I agree, in a utopia it would be fantastic if everyone knew everything, but in a competitive environment like the world of spying that only works if everyone is working to the same playbook. If they're not then all that happens is that the transparent organisation gets replaced by an opaque organisation, making the transparency you demanded in the first place meaningless. Great, so you know everything about the CIA's operations in your country, but you know nothing about the FSB's so you still have people pulling the strings of power in your country without any understanding of what, where, and how - that is, you're no better off than if people didn't know the CIA even existed, let alone the things it engages in. You've got your demands, but they've given you no practical benefit - you're instead ruled by a security service that is not just completely opaque, but that is governed and only therefore accountable to a hostile foreign nation. How is that an improvement?

    16. Re: Surprise! by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Lol, if you think America killed Putin's chauffeur, you are a real idiot.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    17. Re:Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are defending them! The chasing and killing is just a coincidence.

    18. Re:Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Defending whistle-blowers is one thing, getting our backsides exposed by misguided DJ Quixotes' is another.

      I too cheered Manning and Snowden and Assange for leaking information regarding the extent of global and domestic surveillance during the Bush and Obama regimes. I am also aware that the FISA courts are little more than rubber-stamps for our intelligence communities to eavesdrop on whoever they like, and that the current intelligence chiefs are also the same Neo-Con architects who straddled two administrations and gave us Iraq, Syria and DAESH.

      But now the extent of the Russian hacking is clear, yet how high it rises has yet to be revealed. Furthermore I happen to know the difference between an opportunist who started out a progressive and a TV-produced narcissist who has no clue or care for democracy and masquerades as 'The Great White Hope'.

      By leaking the information Assange did last year (probably Snowden too) he was trying the throw the election for Trump as much as (if not in concert with) the Russians. And IMO when you mess with the electoral process you're a traitor as bad as any GOP-wingnut crackerbox looking to resurrect Jim Crow and gerrymander the majority of your district (i.e., not Wingnuts) out of existence.

      Assange and Snowden made themselves Putin's bitches and should be made to explain themselves in court once the Dumpster loses the power of the pardon (for helping to throw the election). Leaking may be leaking, and theft is still theft but one should be damn careful how they use their ill-gotten gains.

    19. Re:Surprise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I completely agree with everything you wrote except...
      as to Putin winning "the War" against the West, I would say he's only won this round.
      If Trump goes all the way and negates our alliances around the world allowing nefarious Russian shit, THEN Putin wins.
      But until then we've been down before: Gary Powers, English and East German "moles" for example, plus the loss of the
      Middle East and Southeast Asia. And they've been down before: Cuban Missile Crisis, Loss of Berlin, Eastern Europe
      and the whole Soviet Empire (which Vlady is trying to rebuild). This is just the latest round. The Russian kleptocracy
      is strong but more Russians want to be "just like us" than we have Americans who want to be like them. Just ask
      any immigrant...that is, if the Dumpster will let you. So like Keith says: "Resist", or if I can paraphrase Glen Campbell:
      "WE ain't dead yet, you old bushwacker!"

  3. Yes! I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    When I got my TV I bypassed the Mic and am feeding it "never gonna give you up" in a continuous loop. Glad my effort was not wasted.

    1. Re:Yes! I knew it. by antdude · · Score: 1

      Why not give them a more annoying audio like sex noises, scratching on chalkboard, etc. ;)

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    2. Re:Yes! I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, not "tiny bubbles"?

    3. Re:Yes! I knew it. by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Funny

      my ip addr is 0.0.0.0 on my 'smart' tv. can't get in, like that!

      oh man, I just checked - I have a routing entry in my cable modem for all zeros! should I be scared?

      (uhm, lol?)

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    4. Re:Yes! I knew it. by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      I just did not connect my TV to my wired or wireless network. My TV should take input from its composite or HDMI inputs and display it, nothing more.

    5. Re:Yes! I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The trick is to not network your smart tv. Use a streaming box or Chromecast instead.

    6. Re: Yes! I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (HDMI spec can allow networking from the connected device)

    7. Re: Yes! I knew it. by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 0

      Really? You find sex noises "annoying"? That is simply taking the "Slashdot geek who can't get laid" meme a bit too far if you ask me.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    8. Re:Yes! I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just ping 255.255.255.255 to see if your routing tables are correctly configured. If not, you'll hear about it on the news.

    9. Re: Yes! I knew it. by Pentium100 · · Score: 1

      In theory yes now that I think about it. But then again, this should limit the spying ability. For one, my TV is only connected to my PC via HDMI and the PC is off most of the time. When it's on, well, if the PC is compromised then I'm hosed anyway, if not, then it should not pass the network packets (I do not remember whether common video cards support networking over the hdmi port, the specs can lie though)..
      Hmm, or maybe I should just use component to provide video signal to the TV...

    10. Re:Yes! I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HDMI can pass Ethernet. So if it's connected to another device, and that device is connected to another device via HDMI, and THAT device is connected to the network... my god... Protocol Zero!!!!

    11. Re: Yes! I knew it. by grub · · Score: 1

      It's probably not the sex noises, it's the cheesy porn music he finds annoying.

      --
      Trolling is a art,
    12. Re:Yes! I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HDMI from another internet connected device?

    13. Re: Yes! I knew it. by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Ah, that's right. Of course that is it! He has never heard the one without the other so to him they are indistinguishable! :-)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    14. Re:Yes! I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What makes you think there isn't a covert communication channel?

    15. Re: Yes! I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your computer doesn't have to be on for them to use it. Google Intel ME and AMD PSP. There has been several posts about it here. I can assure you the CIA has the keys to those coprocessors.

    16. Re:Yes! I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I admire use of Rick Astley as much as the next troll, but data is dumped, logged, not actively viewed.

      Though if you get on a list (no, like the real kind) then yeah you'll gotcha some agent who will abandon that particular info tap.

    17. Re: Yes! I knew it. by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Oh I know this one! A basic understanding of the protocol! Guessing you don't know about protocol analyzers?

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    18. Re: Yes! I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because sex noises would be no different from what's on the the tv anyway?

    19. Re:Yes! I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      called a rick-roll. I won't post a link

    20. Re: Yes! I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How often does a typical user use a protocol analyzer? Even then, do you really think a covert channel couldn't have the basic sophistication to blend into normal traffic?

      Would YOU notice? I sure as hell wouldn't.

    21. Re: Yes! I knew it. by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Yeah. ... You don't quite get it. Remember when I was a "Conspiracy Theorist"???? I guess I'm more of a "Slap a clueless but will meaning fool until they wake up" kind of guy these days :-)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    22. Re: Yes! I knew it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're saying you'd notice ... never?

      Conspiracy theorist?

    23. Re:Yes! I knew it. by jaymemaurice · · Score: 1

      How does it's remote communicate? Can a software defined radio interact with your TV and inject code so that it connects to wireless networks? Is every other wireless device in your home basically a software defined radio with additional hardware and software in it???

      Did you ever see the video of a guy using just a regular controller, real SNES, Super Mario - to inject code for to turn it into a flappy bird clone?
      Understand that most all of the electronic things you have are basically just a more powerful SNES with fancier input interfaces... Given enough time and resources you can probably do anything...

      --
      120 characters ought to be enough for anyone
    24. Re:Yes! I knew it. by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      I just did not connect my TV to my wired or wireless network. My TV should take input from its composite or HDMI inputs and display it, nothing more.

      Check to see if unknown devices are trying to contact your router. Look at the mac address and then look at the television's address. Or think about this. If they can have the tv operate while it is apparently turned off, then running a wireless connection regardless of user commands is simple.

    25. Re:Yes! I knew it. by Neuronwelder · · Score: 1

      Hey! as long as you are saying scary stuff. What would happen if they would install a tiny listening device that can store a charge for a long time and listen in - even if you have the TV unplugged?

  4. Stop using computers! by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    Hide in your basement, cut the phone, cable and Internet lines and stay there for the rest of your life.

    1. Re:Stop using computers! by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Nah, just flood their data bases with computer generated bullshit. Computers are capable or producing volumes of data which they would be forced to sort, categorise and store. Fake coms, fake movements, fake activity, fake searches, fake everything digital. Want to talk to some one, be a human being and go see them and talk to them. Leave the computers to talk empty waffle to each and the agencies can get the erections and play with themselves. Bury them in their own bullshit.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  5. Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is anyone? Seriously?

    I just want to see if they have REAL dirt on Trump or not in regards to the Russians.

    1. Re: Not surprise in the least... by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The real dirt is that the CIA did everything regarding "hacking the elections" that they then blamed on the Russians, to support their would-be sugar mama. That's an attempted coup d'eta. We're at the "means, motive, and opportunity" stage - next up are investigations, prosecutions, and probably, knowing Trump's impetuousness, hangings.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    2. Re: Not surprise in the least... by youngone · · Score: 1
      Oh please.

      Haven't you noticed how Donald is not locking her up anymore? No-one who is part of the machinery of state ever sees the inside of a court, that's just not how it works.

      Don't go pretending Donald is any different to Hilary, none of them are on your side.

    3. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Lehk228 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      locking up a rival candidate would be really bad for democracy, no matter how much she deserved it.

      locking up(or shooting) CIA operatives who interfered with democracy, however, would be great for democracy.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    4. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Not locking her up is really bad for the concept of Rule of Law.

    5. Re: Not surprise in the least... by grcumb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not locking her up is really bad for the concept of Rule of Law.

      Not investigating and then, if necessary, pressing charges and letting a court decide is really bad for the concept of Rule of Law.

      She was investigated, and the conclusion was that 'No reasonable prosecutor would take the case.' Hillary Clinton is, contrary to popular opinion, innocent in the eyes of the Law.

      Forgetting about the presumption of innocence is really bad for the concept of Rule of Law.

      Fucking selectively moral hypocrites who have already decided not to accept what their own fucking law enforcement agencies have investigated and declined to prosecute is bad for the concept of the Rule of Law. You can complain about political factors weighing on the decision; you can complain about ineptitude and willful blindness. You can complain about any fucking thing you fucking want. But you cannot dispense with essential components of the legal/judicial system whenever its suits you.

      You can't claim she's guilty in the absence of a trial and still pretend to uphold the rule of law. So either shut up about the rule of law, or stop claiming she should be locked up, because you can't do both at once.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    6. Re:Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If they had anything, it would have been released long ago.

      It's just a bunch of crybaby losers screaming infantile accusations because they are desperate and have absolutely nothing else. This should have been obvious to everyone when obama claimed that the elections couldn't be hacked, hillary cried about trump potentially not accepting the election results and then they immediately did an about-face after she lost.

    7. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      *wanking motion*

    8. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Perjury carries the penalty of up to five years of imprisonment. Both Sessions and Pruitt are known to have lied under oath during their Senate confirmation hearings. Lock them up.

    9. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He didn't lie. You only watched the edited response. Try watching the whole thing.

    10. Re: Not surprise in the least... by dbreeze · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm gonna invest in popcorn futures...

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    11. Re: Not surprise in the least... by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      "Politicians should be exempt from the laws, and this is good for democracy." - Lehk228

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    12. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You are indeed correct about the presumption of innocence. This is an important concept in the courtroom.

      This case never saw a courtroom, however. It was tried entirely in the court of public opinion. And the system judged that the politically powerful get a different set of legal standards from the plebes.

      I can guarantee that if you had similarly handled classified documents, you would be facing prosecution. Similarly, if you had moved communications to a private server to avoid FOIA requests, you'd be facing disciplinary action at a minimum, prosecution as a possibility.

      The "no reasonable prosecutor" finding was telling. The finding was "I have a case that I could prove in any court in the land, but there's no chance a prosecutor is going to commit career suicide by prosecuting the likely next president of the United States". Not "there is no case here, she's innocent".

      So although your "innocent until proven guilty in a court" take is a truism, it doesn't hold much weight in this case. Hillary was guilty of multiple felony and misdemeanor crimes that any federal prosecutor would happily have taken to court against an ordinary plebe. Her political clout is the reason she avoided that fate.

      So 'not guilty" in a court of law, but far from innocent.

    13. Re: Not surprise in the least... by dwpro · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Please. Prosecutorial discretion is not a vindication, particularly when the accused's spouse caught in a clandestine meeting with the chief prosecutor, who would be in quite a pickle if she'd been on the wrong side of that decision when Hillary came to power. This is in addition to deleting thousands of emails while under investigation and emailing classified information to an unauthorized organization (who conveniently all got immunity...and don't give me this marked classified bullshit, everyone knows that's not how it works.) This leniency for willful defiance of the law for personal gain (or protection from loss), will allow our current corrupt POTUS to push the boundaries even further.

      --
      Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
    14. Re: Not surprise in the least... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      who would be in quite a pickle if she'd been on the wrong side of that decision when Hillary came to power

      That conspiracy theory no longer works because now Hillary is not in power. You need a new one.

    15. Re: Not surprise in the least... by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 0

      ... and the conclusion was that 'No reasonable prosecutor would take the case.'

      You're assuming that the only reason no reasonable prosecutor would take the case is her innocence.

    16. Re: Not surprise in the least... by wisnoskij · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      That is nonsense. The IT guy that wiped her server, after the investigation began, posted on this very site asking for advice on how to destroy the evidence.

      We know someone ordered evidence be destroyed in an ongoing federal investigation, on her personal server.
      She is on tape lying under oath during this investigation.
      We have records of her saying that she uses the private server to stay out of governmental oversight (criminal intent, not just ignorance).

      You don't need a court decision to add 2 and 2 together, and you when new information comes out proving perjury, proving criminal intent, proving "Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations". Someone ordered evidence be destroyed in an ongoing federal investigation, and no charges were ever leveled on anyone. The IT professional who carried out the destruction was cooperating and given immunity, so we know he told who gave the order.

      Too powerful for the law to apply to you, is not a legitimate legal defense, that does not make you innocent.

      We try court cases all the time when the outcome is obvious. He tried Zimmerman, just because a lot of people wanted him tried/jailed with zero evidence of wrongdoing. Even if the evidence was half of what it was, clearly Hillary needed her day in court.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    17. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I did, have you? Cause Al Franken didn't even ask the question but Sessions said point blank he had no contact with the Russians. It was an unforced error since that wasn't what Franken was asking as Franken was just trying to find out what Sessions would do with any evidence he might find.

    18. Re: Not surprise in the least... by s.petry · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apparently, a first grader has a better understanding of "Context" than you do. Frankin's question was specific to Trump surrogates communicating with Russian officials. Here is a working analogy for the genuinely handicapped who can't understand the context.

      Senator Al Frankin: We have reports that people like you were firing guns into a crowd, and that you were near the crowd.
      Jeff Sessions: Senator Frankin, I was there but never fired a gun.

      Buffoons : We have reports that while hunting in the woods a few months ago, Attorney General Sessions did in fact fire a gun. He is a liar! PERJURY!

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    19. Re: Not surprise in the least... by grcumb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ... and the conclusion was that 'No reasonable prosecutor would take the case.'

      You're assuming that the only reason no reasonable prosecutor would take the case is her innocence.

      No, for fuck sakes, I'm saying that you can't defend the rule of law, and then jump straight to a guilty verdict without passing through these interim steps.

      My entire point is that it's perfectly fair to complain about the lack of consistency in prosecutorial decision-making. It's perfectly fair to question the FBI's investigative techniques. It's perfectly fair to discuss at length and in detail all of the countless deficiencies that exist in the American criminal justice system. People spend lifetimes doing just that.

      But you do NOT get to say, 'That bitch is guilty' when she's never even gone to trial. Not if you stand for the rule of law.

      Say, she should be prosecuted, she should be re-investigated, say that what she's doing is dodgy as fuck. I'm right beside you there. Say that she and her husband are conscience-free, calculating sociopaths. Say that she's insincere. Say whatever the fuck you want. But you still don't get to say she's guilty until she's convicted. Not if, as the poster did, you claim to support the rule of law.

      Too many people think presumption of innocence is a trivial thing, that it only applies when trials run right. That's not true. Presumption of innocence is essential to a society run by laws, and it says, if you didn't get convicted by a court, you're innocent of the crime. There's not one iota of ambiguity there.

      This matters to me because, as a journalist, I regularly see people accused of horrible crimes, and I see the human toll of people who are put through the ringer of social opprobrium. I've seen what happens when vigilante justice prevails, and trust me, you don't ever want to see it happen.

      We have the rule of law because we as a society agree to play by the rules. That means that you stop making exceptions when someone that you don't like benefits from those rules. It sucks sometimes, but there it is.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    20. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Bartles · · Score: 1

      Everyone was pretty damn sure that was going to happen.

    21. Re: Not surprise in the least... by grcumb · · Score: 4, Informative

      ... innocence is not a legal concept.

      Presumption of Innocence is a formal concept in Common Law.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    22. Re: Not surprise in the least... by dwpro · · Score: 1

      Only if you think the current administration would see it in their best interest to pursue that litigation. Given Trump's similarly cavalier attitude towards national security I can't imagine that would be advised.

      --
      Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
    23. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Namarrgon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Again, you are presuming, based on your limited information, that she's guilty.

      The reason we have trials, rather than relying on the snap judgement of people like you, is that *all* the evidence is brought out, explored, and argued over. Until that is done, you cannot rightly presume anything other than innocence.

      The Feds did their investigation, came up with more evidence and counter-evidence than you will ever know about, and judged that in total, it wasn't enough to even make a reasonable case. You can claim to disagree with the Feds' judgement all you like, if you think someone will listen; you can demand the investigation be re-opened, or insist that she go straight to trial, but you *still* need a trial and court decision, because you don't have all the facts.

      Of course, requiring political opponents to be re-investigated until something turns up is a practice normally associated with oppressive regimes, and opens your own preferred politicians to the same treatment, so maybe be careful what you wish for.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    24. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait a minute...letting criminal politicians run off scot free with a mint of the people's money is good for democracy? (Selling uranium to Russia in exchange for foundation donation etc.) That sounds more like a third world banana republic like Haiti, the Philippines, Cambodia, etc. I don't think you are thinking this through...

    25. Re: Not surprise in the least... by wisnoskij · · Score: 0

      No, I specifically did not say that.
      I am saying the public needs answers, I am saying major crimes were committed and someone needs to be charged and get their day in court.

      I am not disagreeing with the feds judgement, I am disagreeing that there is such a thing as too powerful for the law to apply to you.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    26. Re: Not surprise in the least... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Only if you think the current administration would see it in their best interest to pursue that litigation

      The chance to jail a hated political rival who is likely to cause trouble in the future? Of course it's in their best interest and if they actually had a case they would jump at the chance.
      That's why the conspiracy theory is so fucking dumb.

    27. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn straight!

    28. Re: Not surprise in the least... by ShaunC · · Score: 4, Informative

      That is nonsense. The IT guy that wiped her server, after the investigation began, posted on this very site asking for advice on how to destroy the evidence.

      He posted on Reddit, not here, and his inquiry didn't read to me like an attempt to destroy evidence. He was trying to figure out how to redact email addresses from a large corpus of archived messages. This is standard practice during electronic discovery and document production, and isn't a sign of anything nefarious.

      Jeb Bush performed the same scrubs on his email archives, after first releasing them unredacted and causing an uproar because they were full of constituents' personal data.

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
    29. Re: Not surprise in the least... by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      It was here as well. But you are right, it was other staff members who decided that right after her emails were requested for the federal investigation was the best time to clean up her email server and deleted tens of thousands of "personal" emails.

      But you don't typically redact information that is evidence in a criminal case. Releasing emails to the public is different than being involved in a criminal case.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    30. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      She was investigated, and the conclusion was that 'No reasonable prosecutor would take the case.' Hillary Clinton is, contrary to popular opinion, innocent in the eyes of the Law.

      It's adorable how that sentence makes logical sense to you.

    31. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just don't forget to lock up Sessions for lying to congress while you're at it

      .... about as likely an outcome as Eric Holder putting himself in jail for contempt of congress a few years back.

    32. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you actually read the report they basically said "She's probably guilty, but we don't want to jeopardize her campaign, so we recommend not prosecuting her." It was a blatant doublestandard and should make every citizen angry.

    33. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Maritz · · Score: 2

      There is no innocent in the rule of law, as you like to pretend to understand it. If this is too difficult for you to understand, realize that a court verdict is guilty or not guilty, it is never a finding of innocent.

      Particularly patronising tone you've managed there.

      innocent

      adjective: innocent

      1. not guilty of a crime or offence.

      Turns out the definition of 'innocent' contains the words 'not guilty'. If you'd been less of a dick about it, you wouldn't look quite so stupid now. Oh well.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    34. Re: Not surprise in the least... by dwillden · · Score: 1

      She needs to face charges, because many experienced former prosecutors and plenty of people who have been prosecuted for just what Comey claimed was not prosecutable beg to differ. Failure to protect classified information, is a federal felony that has NO requirement of intent. If you are negligent in your handling of classified information, even once, you can be prosecuted and convicted.

      I agree that just saying she should be locked up is wrong. She needs to face the charges and if she can beat them in a court of law, fine. But Comey outlined a clear and easily prosecuted case consisting of hundreds of felony counts (one for each email she sent containing classified information) and then magically waived it away claiming that no prosecutor would take the case, when many a case has been taken up and successfully prosecuted for far less egregious and far less extensive scope of counts. The fix was in from the Tarmac meeting just days before.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    35. Re: Not surprise in the least... by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      judged that in total, it wasn't enough to even make a reasonable case

      No, they judged that no prosecutor would take the case... All of the evidence they gathered clearly showed that she broke several laws. She is innocent until proven guilty in court, but the courts never got to rule. Thus the only ruling that can be gathered is based on the evidence that the FBI released which was overwhelmingly that Hillary didn't follow the law.

      I believe in the rule of law. Hillary is guilty, but not in jail because she broke the law, but no reasonable prosecutor would put her in a court room. That's not the rule of law, that's the powerful not being subject to the laws because of prosecutorial discretion.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    36. Re: Not surprise in the least... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      The real dirt is that the CIA did everything regarding "hacking the elections" that they then blamed on the Russians, to support their would-be sugar mama. That's an attempted coup d'eta. We're at the "means, motive, and opportunity" stage - next up are investigations, prosecutions, and probably, knowing Trump's impetuousness, hangings.

      Yes the CIA is clearly part of the left wing conspiracy to destroy America.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    37. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Feds did their investigation, came up with more evidence and counter-evidence than you will ever know about, and judged that in total, it wasn't enough to even make a reasonable case.

      I think some of the concern is that they said that, but was it the truth?

    38. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Altus · · Score: 1

      That literally makes no sense. The CIA hacks the democrats and then leaks documents that make Hillary look bad, making it far more likely that Donald wins the election just so they can turn around and fabricate a story about him being in bed with the Russians.

      Your critical thinking needs a little work

      --

      "In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson

    39. Re: Not surprise in the least... by rgbatduke · · Score: 2

      Presumption of innocence is essential to a society run by laws, and it says, if you didn't get convicted by a court, you're innocent of the crime. There's not one iota of ambiguity there.

      I've been following, and mostly agreeing with, your marvelous string of rant(s) on this topic, but here I must pick a very important epistemological nit.

      When I drove to work today, I exceeded the legal speed limit, as I do every day. I am therefore in reality guilty of violating the laws restricting the speed I am permitted to drive my car. This guilt persists whether or not I am stopped, observed, ticketed, taken to court. It persists whether or not I am stopped, go to court, and pay a lawyer a large sum of money to have the case thrown out or to convince judge or jury that my excess speed was within some legal uncertainty associated with its measurement, whether or not there was a technical error in my citation that makes it null and void. Being guilty in reality of violating a law is quite independent of the courts, arrests, prosecutions, and verdicts. Did I commit the crime? Yes (just like pretty much every human alive driving today). Have I been "declared guilty" by a court? Absolutely not, got away with it just like almost every human alive who exceeds the speed limit today will get away with it, some of whom will exceed it by a lot. Yesterday I (accidentally, seriously) ran a red light. Didn't get caught, didn't harm anyone, but I'm absolutely guilty of doing it and am still kicking myself for letting myself get too distracted at the intersection as I could have hurt someone. Guilty, guilty, guilty.

      So let's correct your statement above:

      Presumption of innocence is essential to a society run by laws, and it says, if you didn't get convicted by a court, you're presumed to be innocent (in the eyes of the law). There's not one iota of ambiguity there.

      NOT THE SAME as saying you ARE innocent in reality, only that as far as the law goes, you have the benefit of any doubt (and various legal protections against others acting on their own as if you were guilty). This is true even if Colonel Mustard is found in the pantry holding the wrench, is arrested without being Mirandized, confesses everything and leads the police to a wealth of absolute proof that he did it, that he planned to do it, that he is glad he did it, that he is guilty, guilty, guilty of doing it -- but all of that evidence is thrown out and consequently the jury declares him (not innocent, but) not guilty. At which point he could write a book: "I Did it in the Pantry with the Wrench, and I'm Glad", by Colonel Mustard, Esq, and could admit it on Oprah and he'd still be "not guilty" in the eyes of the law for the rest of eternity because of the double jeopardy clause.

      Outside of this small but important exception, I agree with what you are saying. And it matters! Those rules that might get Col. Mustard a walk even though he is guilty as hell might protect Miss Scarlet who is intimidated into admitting that she did it in the kitchen with the knife but really was in the Library with Professor Plum. They prevent many a miscarriage of justice where a DA aggressively prosecutes somebody for political reasons on inadequate or trumped up evidence. It's not like we don't routinely convict the innocent because the person accused happens to be black or hispanic even WITH the protections we have...

      That doesn't stop people from "convicting" O.J. Simpson of murder in their own minds even though he is declared "not guilty" in a trial. It doesn't stop him from (maybe) BEING guilty even though he was acquitted. It doesn't stop people from convicting Hilary Clinton and/or Donald Trump in their own minds of everything from murder down to simple child molestation and rape and (while we are obligated to presume their innocence in all legal matters including not defaming them by asserting their ce

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    40. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with you, but they DID find clear evidence that she broke the law -- Comey even admitted that in the same public address he said the "no reasonable prosecutor" crap. She SHOULD have been tried and prosecuted, but wasn't for reasons of which we can only speculate. Was it because she's "one of them"? Was it because any prosecutor capable of taking her on knew it wouldn't be worth the inevitably long, expensive, drawn-out process? Was it because any prosecutor would not take on the case due to fears of assassination attempts (common thread when it comes to the Clintons, not saying it's true, just saying the perception is there)? When the FBI director essentially says "normal" people would be in jail for the things she did, it makes you wonder just why the hell she wasn't prosecuted.

      So I agree with you, in principle, but it's very clear that the law works different for people like her. Sometimes, when the justice system doesn't do its job right, or at all, the only thing we have left is vigilante justice.

    41. Re: Not surprise in the least... by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 1

      The Feds did their investigation, came up with more evidence and counter-evidence than you will ever know about, and judged that in total, it wasn't enough to even make a reasonable case.

      The problem with this analysis is that there are people (e.g. Kristian Saucier) that are being prosecuted for doing much less than Hillary Clinton was proven to have done.

      Hillary should be doing hard time for her mishandling of classified information.

    42. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or perhaps to be more correct I should have capitalized Logical?

    43. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Must be a Vulcan.

    44. Re: Not surprise in the least... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I can guarantee that if you had similarly handled classified documents, you would be facing prosecution.

      If you look at cases of people who were negligent in handling classified material, or otherwise inadvertently leaked it, you don't find criminal prosecution. There was one guy who agreed to plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge, and wound up not having to, and I saw no sign of any criminal penalties in the other cases. Prosecuting Clinton would have been unprecedented.

      Now, if you similarly mishandled classified documents, you might lose your job or your clearance, and it's likely to be a career-limiting move, but you wouldn't have to worry about prosecution.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    45. Re: Not surprise in the least... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Clinton was negligent in handling classified materials. Saucier deliberately broke the law. That is, from the cases I looked over, almost always the criterion for prosecution.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    46. Re: Not surprise in the least... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      plenty of people who have been prosecuted for just what Comey claimed was not prosecutable

      Name one. Just one. I haven't found one yet.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    47. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't like Holder but the notion of "contempt of Congress" even being a thing makes me queasy. It's only real use is to jail people for things like "went to some sketchy meeting in college 20 years ago and refuses to name the other people that were there". McCarthy was a fascist douchebag, let's not give credence to his methods.

    48. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Time_Ngler · · Score: 1

      Your hero has been awfully quiet about the leaks... *taps foot, looks at watch*. I'm sure he'll start yelling about it any day now

    49. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hated? No, he just wanted to win, so made out like he hated her

    50. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Namarrgon · · Score: 2

      I am saying the public needs answers

      They got an answer, from the feds. It's not definitive, but it's indicative at least, and far more informed than public speculation.

      I am saying major crimes were committed

      This is exactly my point. Major crimes are alleged. The difference is crucial. Someone could indeed be charged and get their day in court, but whether major crimes were actually committed is still not proved, let alone who by.

      I am not disagreeing with the feds judgement

      It does kinda sound like you are (which is fine). And I'm right with you on the whole "too powerful for the law to apply" thing - politicians more than anyone must be subject to the law.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    51. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      So you've pre-judged her as guilty, based on your incomplete third-hand hearsay, and you're further alleging that all prosecutors are too corrupt to take the case.

      Have you considered perhaps that you simply don't have all the information, and what you don't know maybe indicates that she's not nearly as obviously guilty as you think, and possibly that's a much simpler explanation for why she's not being charged, rather than massive and widespread corruption throughout our entire legal system?

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    52. Re: Not surprise in the least... by grcumb · · Score: 1

      Presumption of innocence is essential to a society run by laws, and it says, if you didn't get convicted by a court, you're presumed to be innocent (in the eyes of the law). There's not one iota of ambiguity there.

      NOT THE SAME as saying you ARE innocent in reality, only that as far as the law goes, you have the benefit of any doubt (and various legal protections against others acting on their own as if you were guilty).

      I take your point. My problem, however, is with people leaping to the conclusion that a person is guilty and therefore that respect for the rule of law requires a conviction.

      The implication, of course, is that maybe it's not conducive to civil discourse to lead chants of 'Lock Her Up' at political rallies. Because that's un-American, in the sense that it deliberately and maliciously subverts the fundamental precepts of Common Law. And I'll remind you that respect for the rule of law was the jumping off point for these rants.

      But you're welcome to your niggle about other interpretations of guilt. :-)

      Regarding OJ, by the way: I have my suspicions about his guilt. But I will not entertain them in my newspaper. Nor should a political leader use such speculation as a rallying cry that has the effect of casting aspersions on him—or on black men in general.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    53. Re: Not surprise in the least... by shentino · · Score: 1

      I think the issue is that the only reason she did NOT go to trial is BECAUSE of political shenanigans.

    54. Re: Not surprise in the least... by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Really? Do I really care if he lied to a massive group of self-righteous self-important, egotistical assholes who are taking their directions from corporations, illegal aliens, foreign gov esp china and Russia? Not one fucking bit. OTOH, I do care that he is obviously on the take from Russia like so many GOP.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    55. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As I said, I agree with all of that. But there is nothing un-American about weighing such evidence as we have and leading chants of "Prosecute Her", or questioning the objectivity of those that refuse to do so in the face of evidence that at first, and second, and third glance looks damning. Especially in the political arena, where cronyism or fear or reprisal can interfere with the appropriate conduct of business. I'm in no sense defending Trump, note well. Trump has his own issues with whether or not he has or has not committed crimes that were then not properly prosecuted because of his wealth and power.

      There is a very real perception in America that there are three laws. One is for the very wealthy and powerful, who pretty much do as they like and use their wealth to protect themselves from detection or to buy or bully their way out of any trouble they find themselves in. One is for the great middle class, where getting caught is "bad luck" as they can't do as good a job of hiding their crime and sometimes are found out, but where they still have enough money to buy their way out or at least, ameliorate the impact and punishment of the crime. And one is for the poor and powerless, who are maximally screwed to the point where they don't even have to commit a crime to be "caught" and charged with one, they just have to be black and out on a street where a crime was committed, and who have at best a public defender telling them to take a plea bargain at the far side to keep their time in prison (again) to a "minimum". There is a perception that people convicted of crimes don't even end up in the SAME prisons based on these categories.

      It is actually pretty reasonable for people in the bottom two categories to call out what they perceive of is the operation of a different law for people in the top category. Ideally, sure, there would be one law for everybody, but reality is that there isn't and won't be as long as there are lawyers for hire who golf with the judges that hear their cases and political figures who appoint judges. If one class can reward or punish those that would prosecute or judge them, the hope for objectivity in prosecution and judgement goes out the window.

        rgb (not AC, my browser dropped a cookie and I haven't logged in again)

    56. Re: Not surprise in the least... by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      No, I've judged her as having broken the law based on evidence that the FBI director provided to the public. I'm not saying all prosecutors are too corrupt to take the case, but that the FBI believes that is the case (again, the FBI director's words, not mine). If using evidence provided by the FBI director in a press conference is "hearsay" then what evidence would you accept? Good luck getting your hands on the server drives or phones that were confessed to have been destroyed by the Clinton staff.

      I'm not claiming to have all of the information. The information I do have clearly indicates the law was not followed. If you want to call that guilty you are welcome to even if it doesn't fit the legal definition of guilty. I would argue it is far more likely that she is guilty of much more than just mishandling classified information and lying about it during congressional hearings. She's probably also guilty of obstruction of justice, destroying evidence, and racketeering. Conspiracy is also likely if she is guilty of those as well. But I'm content with giving her the benefit of the doubt and only being "beyond a reasonable doubt" that she mishandled classified information.

      Furthermore, I don't need any of this information or legal proceedings to have ample evidence that there is massive and widespread corruption throughout our legal system. For that all you need to do is look at any case involving a politician or law enforcement officer. They are not held to the same standards as We The People are.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    57. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who got Seth Rich shot ?

    58. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      not exempt from laws, you nitwit. criminal prosecutions of whoever loses an election for their "crimes" is third world shit.


      expose what they have done, if they have stolen funds then use whatever civil and administrative tools are available to recover those funds unless it's something truely heinous such as if pizza gate turns out to be real, the costs to the nation far outweigh the benefits.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    59. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      I've judged her as having broken the law based on evidence that the FBI director provided to the public.

      Actually, you've pre-judged her as guilty based on media reports, almost certainly with some bias added by the outlets of your choice, and which further selectively filtered the already-limited information the FBI director provided. Is that not third-hand, at least?

      I'm not saying all prosecutors are too corrupt to take the case, but that the FBI believes that is the case (again, the FBI director's words, not mine).

      I must have missed where the FBI director said anything about their supposed belief of all prosecutors being corrupt.

      The information I do have clearly indicates the law was not followed.

      Yet you agree your information is far from complete. A body and a suspect do not a murder case make - that's why we have courts, and not trials by media.

      I would argue it is far more likely that she is guilty of much more

      That prejudice right there, based on little more than pure speculation, would disqualify you from any jury.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    60. Re: Not surprise in the least... by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      So yes, if you throw out everything the FBI director and media have reported, then there is no evidence against Hillary. What's the point of any of this discussion if you (with your apparent prejudice) refuse to accept the direct words of the FBI director himself in a press conference? That's as close to raw evidence as any of the public is going to get. It's so nice that she deleted all of the records when subpoenaed (well reportedly she did) so there can be no evidence you can review on your own.

      Am I prejudiced? Yes. Are you? Also yes. I don't think you know what disqualifies one from a jury... Having any kind of prejudice and making a decision based on incomplete evidence is the norm for jurors. And luckily for Hillary, no jury ever will get to rule on it because the FBI said so. That is totally a more fair system...

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    61. Re: Not surprise in the least... by grcumb · · Score: 1

      ...there is nothing un-American about weighing such evidence as we have and leading chants of "Prosecute Her"....

      Again, I would agree. If that's what they'd chanted. But it wasn't. The chanters are the people I have no truck with. I applaud anyone with a healthy scepticism toward the application of the law in America... as long as they're focused on fixing the system rather than bringing its injustice and inequity to bear on a different (class of) victim.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    62. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      I'm certainly not throwing out what the director has said. He clearly found evidence against her - and also said it wasn't sufficient to make a robust case that a prosecutor would bother with. You're the one that listened to the first part but ignored the second.

      My whole point is, there's certainly evidence, but no proof - and you can't (and shouldn't) arrive at a definite conclusion without a full trial, where all the evidence (for and against) is examined in detail. Until that happens, we have the presumption of innocence for a very good reason - and it's not me who's leaping to conclusions based on the trial by media.

      The director's statements do not preclude a full trial, and the DoJ could still decide to make a case out of it - if they wanted to. They don't seem to, though. Perhaps that's because they're all corrupt, if you're inclined towards the conspiratorial view, or rather more likely it's simply because there just isn't enough evidence to actually convict her of anything - which is clearly the view of people who know a lot more about that evidence than you or I.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    63. Re: Not surprise in the least... by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      Except everyone who is familiar with the law outside of Washington politics has called out the FBI director for a problem with his conclusion. His evidence against her is solid but he said it wasn't something a reasonable prosecutor would pursue because there was no evidence of Hillary's intent. However, intent is not a factor in the execution of the law. Even negligence without intent is enough to bring a case on.

      I am all about a presumption of innocence for the defense in a court case. If there is suspicion of a crime and no court case will ever be held, I don't have to maintain a neutral stance and all I can do is consider guilt on my own knowing that for whatever reason she will never see a court room or a judge.

      Conspiracies and a government where the leaders aren't held to the same standards as the citizens have very similar structures don't they?

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    64. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      Obviously the director *does* consider intent to be a factor, in this case.

      But that's still largely irrelevant, because he's the director of the FBI, not the director of the Department of Justice. If the DoJ chose to take up the case, they could subpoena the results of the investigation and bring any case they wanted, regardless of the FBI's opinions. When asked why they haven't, you prefer to believe in massively widespread corruption, rather than the far simpler assumption that they merely know something you don't.

      You claim without any basis that no court case will ever be held, you offer only speculation about conspiracies as to why that might be, then you use that to excuse your own premature assumption of guilt.

      Presumption of innocence has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not a court case will be held in the future. It's needed because the evidence is not complete. If you could go around judging guilt based solely on a few selected facts and media reports, we wouldn't need court trials in the first place. I'm not sure why this means nothing to you.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    65. Re: Not surprise in the least... by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure why you can't separate someone being guilty from someone being guilty under the law and punished for it. A child that tells a lie is guilty, but isn't going to be thrown in jail. There is a different standard for someone being guilty in a moral and objective sense and someone being legally declared guilty where the state can forcibly apply a penalty.

      My question for you is why is it less concerning that the government is withholding information showing that Hillary broke no laws than it is that she broke the law and they are just sweeping it under the rug? What is the harm of showing whatever evidence is available proving Hillary was completely within the laws to do what she did? It's one of those questions that just can't be ignored. If the moon landing was faked, what incentive is there for people in on the conspiracy to not release the truth?

      In Hillary's case, a lot of people's jobs and riches are all hinged on her never being prosecuted. And those people are the ones who decide if she is prosecuted or not. Sure there are people who want to see Hillary in jail, but those same people don't want a case because I'm fairly certain that both sides are doing shit like this and they don't want too much digging into how widespread the problem is. They are all in the same worm can and don't want anyone to dig.

      I've never heard someone arguing so hard that a judge shouldn't hear a case because a prosecutor might have hidden evidence of innocence. Don't the citizens of a country deserve to hear in a court of law all of the evidence showing their leaders aren't corrupt?

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    66. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      When did I ever argue that a judge should not hear any case, or this one?

      What evidence is being withheld? Did you miss where the FBI released everything from their investigations?

      I'll say it yet again: Presumption of innocence. It's important, regardless of your suspicions.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
    67. Re: Not surprise in the least... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "In Hillary's case, a lot of people's jobs and riches are all hinged on her never being prosecuted. And those people are the ones who decide if she is prosecuted or not."

      Uh... As I recall the Republicans control everything right now, so either you are wrong, or the Republicans' jobs and riches are all hinged on Hillary not being prosecuted.

      I for one would enjoy seeing her prosecuted, but only if Trump's illegal activities like Russian ties and election hacking get equally prosecuted by a panel of American people and not by Republican lackeys (not just the easy charges that he is even now being prosecuted for, like failure to pay wages).

  6. Re:The worst leak of all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    WikiLeaks accidentally posted Donald Trump's dick pic!

    I guess that means Julian Assange is a vegetarian!

  7. Shocking to the common man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    But it kind of sounds like "all of the theoretical vulnerabilities really are being attacked by state-sponsored hackers," which probably isn't so shocking around these parts.

    1. Re: Shocking to the common man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To the point of theoretical vulnerabilities, I just saw a YouTube video of a kid using BadUSB to cheat at games on LAN. Besides being incredibly lame it shows how being state sponsored is not a prerequisite for some of these things. And some things really need to be fixed, not kept secret.

  8. Is any of this new? by chispito · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1) The CIA has the ability to break into Android and iPhone handsets, and all kinds of computers.

    That's part of the spying thing and has been for at least the last 2-3 decades.

    2) Doing so would make apps like Signal, Telegram and WhatsApp entirely insecure.

    Logically follows.

    3) The CIA could use smart TVs to listen in on conversations that happened around them.

    Smart device insecure; news at 11.

    4) The agency explored hacking into cars and crashing them, allowing "nearly undetectable assassinations."

    Explored and...? That's it? Okay.

    5) The CIA hid vulnerabilities that could be used by hackers from other countries or governments.

    Author doesn't know what an 0-day is good for.

    --
    The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    1. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      NEW BREAKING! Oh wait, that's just the NSA recording all overseas calls since before Snowden! When you're an old orange ignorant fool everything is NEW, NEW, NEW!

    2. Re:Is any of this new? by ls671 · · Score: 4, Funny

      My mother tells me that when black and white TV first came out, some people used to dress all nice and clean to watch TV, like if they were going to a wedding or something. Apparently, they weren't sure if the guy in the TV could see them and they wouldn't trust you if you told them he couldn't.

      Man, those people were visionaries!

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    3. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i thought they had a hard time breaking into iPhones before in various forms..? was this a lie ?

    4. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ugh. "an zero day."

    5. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hell no. Better question, is any of this news. Apparently, the CIA has been busy doing CIA stuff.

      15 years ago, someone would have been laughed off of Slashdot for asking how to send information over the internet in a way that was secure from an organization like the CIA. Today's "nerds" believe that you can accomplish this by installing some trendy app on a handset built by some international conglomerate and serviced by a major telecom.

      People careen from screaming about how IOT is insecure by design to pearl-clutching over how Smart TVs and internet connected cars can be exploited by the CIA?

      WTF is going on around here? Slow news generation?

    6. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      i thought they had a hard time breaking into iPhones before in various forms..? was this a lie ?

      That was the FBI not the CIA. It is apparent (or perhaps they just want us muggles to believe) that these agencies do not cooperate at all.

    7. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact that is going through WikiLeaks is definitely a new dynamic.

      Also, it shows how much the human species is lost in technology,,,

    8. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was the FBI; the CIA hides their tools from other agencies with more accommodating attitudes toward the Vulnerability Equities Process.

    9. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Explored and...? That's it? Okay.

      Holy fuck. If you think it ends there, you're a bigger idiot than you made yourself out to be with the first half of your post.

    10. Re:Is any of this new? by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not surprising, some people today are just as ignorant about computers.

      Though it scares me to think I may be ignorant about some FUTURE tech that comes out when I'm old.

    11. Re:Is any of this new? by RazorSharp · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The fact of the matter is that the main reason the government is turning into Big Brother is because unlike most of the people on this site, the typical American believes that all of those things are ridiculous conspiracy theories. Hence politicians who find a surveillance state to be reprehensible are few and far between. I can think of Ron Wyden and Rand Paul off the top of my head and they're treated like whackos.

      To flippantly dismiss it at "that's spying and that's how it's been for the last 2-3 decades" is the type of submissive attitude that has allowed this to happen in the first place. The generations of our time exist at a crucial moment in history when the very notion of liberty is in jeopardy. If we allow an Orwellian government to take hold—which all of these actions by the CIA are precursors for—then it may be impossible to reverse.

      I may sound hyperbolic but the extreme nature of the changes our society currently face only sound ridiculous to people because most don't want to believe that horrible things are happening (or at least, they don't want to believe they'll happen in their own lifetime). It's the same with climate change. People just hope that when the shit hits the fan they'll be long dead.

      --
      "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
    12. Re: Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are good at keeping secrets. They classify info based on how much it can affect national security. Breaking into everyone's iPhones is apparently very disruptive in the CIA's eyes as nobody at the FBI had high enough clearance to get that info from the CIA. Or at least none of the agents working that case. They couldn't even get the CIA to acknowledge the existence.
      Or maybe the CIA only has a way to get at iPhones currently in use over the internet idk I'm not reading 8,000 pages to find out. From the summary it says they have malware so that ain't working on a locked phone unless it's already there.

    13. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      4) The agency explored hacking into cars and crashing them, allowing "nearly undetectable assassinations."

      Explored and...? That's it? Okay.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hastings_(journalist)

    14. Re: Is any of this new? by denis.goddard · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you should join us in New Hampshire http://freestateproject.org/

    15. Re:Is any of this new? by dbreeze · · Score: 1

      SOMEBODY suffered the worst of histories atrocities and disasters, but it won't happen to me.... normalcy bias, societal cycles, yada,...

      Do not despair America, these are the times that produce tomorrow's heroes.

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    16. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If they have to use malware to get on the phone, they have to get malware _into_ the phone before using it. Being able to tap a phone by installing a specially designed program doesn't necessarily mean they can unlock it while it's locked if such a program isn't already on the phone. They may still be able to do that, but it's a different task.

    17. Re: Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod up

    18. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with your general response that this doesn't represent a big worldview changer for anyone who was clued in by Snowden or earlier. However looking for the actual bright side, the fact that apparently actual code and anecdotal named and shamed consumer products are involved, I see potential real upside. At least now one could more easily prosecute a gross negligence lawsuit against product manufacturers that *still* try to pretend that basic exploitation of obvious long understood best practices is not their responsibility...

    19. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      then it may be impossible to reverse

      That ship has sailed. There is only forward when you are traversing whitewater (or blackwater?) river rapids. So many different facets of global humanity and everything are fundmentally changing in new ways all the time that it is pointless IMHO to think in terms of reverse. There is no going back. It's only which forward direction you want to aim for.

      The venn diagram intersection with 4th dimension of time added is interesting to consider over the sets of mobile phone, recorder, and personal lethal force device technology. Not to mention the threat surface of modern biotech.

      I consider it an understandable, but important false track, the idea of reversing course. Things that made logical sense in the context of society 50 years ago should if at all possible be fully reevaluated in context of that 50 years of many different kinds of change.

    20. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Except that's why Snowden was such a big deal. But the response of the public? Some people were terrified but others thought he should have "obeyed his contract" and "gone through appropriate channels" (like everyone else who got screwed)... i.e. basically they're saying he should have been a dam* sheep. Meeting people like that, I stopped wondering a long time ago how people like Hitler came to power, stayed there, and were obediently followed when ordered to slaughter thousands of Jews. He had public support! The tale is old, and even movies today promote the same garbage: men are heroes when they convince people that the values of "loyalty" and "patriotism" and "brotherhood" are more important than peoples' lives, freedom, and sanity - and all under the guise of supporting the latter.

    21. Re:Is any of this new? by chispito · · Score: 1

      Commonly pronounced "oh-day."

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    22. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aaand... there is, as usual, the asshole who says this is all common knowledge, except the asshole never shared that common knowledge before. Asshole.

    23. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So someone risked his life to leak this to the public so we can have an open debate about it and ...you don't think it's even newsworthy?

      That's your stance on government surveillance, is that it doesn't merit the slashdot frontpage? Not worth the pixels it's printed on?

      (...Did the NSA pay you to say this? I'm joking... but apparently that's the sort of thing they sometimes do: infiltrate moments and try to manage the public's opinions. And that's a fact we only know because of Snowden and whistleblowers like that. So thanks Snowden.)

    24. Re:Is any of this new? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It's news because now the developers of many apps affected and fix the security vulnerabilities, making us all more secure. Also anti-virus software can learn to detect this malware. I've been uploading it to VirusTotal and submitting samples to AV vendors, although I'd hope they had downloaded the torrent themselves.

      Maybe the headline should read "hundreds of zero-day vulnerabilities made public".

      This is damaging for the CIA, but a massive benefit for everyone else.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    25. Re:Is any of this new? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      No. No it isn't.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    26. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1984 panels you weren't allowed to turn off.

    27. Re:Is any of this new? by golden_donkey · · Score: 1

      I have heard the same thing.

    28. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In short, Yes. You recall from many movies and TV series that investigators often acquire their information in ways they can't use in courts, and then construct another parallel venue into "serendipitous stumbling upon" the same information in an acceptable way. The iPhone cases were a little theatre for the public to promote some unfounded trust of gullible do-no-goods out there into their personal digital snitches.

    29. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is apparent (or perhaps they just want us muggles to believe) that these agencies do not cooperate at all.

      They have to cooperate. There has been a law that forces them to.

    30. Re:Is any of this new? by gtall · · Score: 1

      Well, Rand Paul is a whacko. When he couldn't pass the med quals in Kentucky, he set up his own board with its own test and passed that. He's no paradigm of virtue.

      The reason the pols go for increased Big Brother is a combination of inertia and the fear of being dis-elected. If something big happen on their watch and it is security related, they'd feel bad about having find a different line of work were the people to blame them.

      And the typical Republican believes in all sorts of conspiracy theories. Trump has just welcomed in a White House visit the founder of TMZ, the big tabloid TV show. To Trump, TMZ is real news. He doesn't have the brain power or the attention span to dissect the difference between that and well researched NYT or WPost article.

    31. Re:Is any of this new? by dwillden · · Score: 2

      We flippantly dismiss it, because anyone who has worked in the intel community knows that you either remove batteries from any phones or better remove any phones from the room when discussing sensitive information and that has been the rule for decades. Back in the days of the Nokia candy bar cell phones that was the policy because they could be remotely accessed and used to listen. That the CIA has active research to maintain and even expand these capabilities is not only not news, it is to be expected because the other side is certainly going to be trying to maintain that capability in light of device technology advances.

      What would be surprising, (and disappointing) would be if they were not trying to do this. Now if the leak provides any proof of the Agency illegally tapping US Citizens then we have an issue. A big one. But having the capability for intelligence collection efforts and to understand how the opposition might be trying to do the same things to us, is not an issue.

      You would gut the capabilities of our intel community to collect on our international opponents(friendly and hostile)?

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    32. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aaand... there is, as usual, the asshole who thinks that just because he hasn't heard something that it isn't really common knowledge. Just because your life experience hasn't introduced you to this concept does not make it new.

    33. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Radio. People used to dress up in gowns and tuxes to listen on on early RADIO broadcasts in the era of valves.
      RadioRentals existed because affording a radio just too expensive, so you dressed up and went over to someone who could afford one..

      But the real talking and communication was in the car drive home.

      Tapping the computer will not work in a mud hut, tent or in a park, or drop point. A car is not a given. Now everyone knows they are probably spied on, or could be lip read from mall cameras - fishing, camping trips or surfing are real popular. So the assumption is people are shit dumb, dumber than say the IRA was when phone taps were all the rage.

      Lor knows what they think when you mobile phone battery goes flat and you misplaced your charger!

    34. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At what point do you start to express concern? Do we wait until the government watches and listens to us 24h/day and then decide "damn, we should have stopped this earlier!".

    35. Re:Is any of this new? by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      If we allow an Orwellian government to take holdâ"which all of these actions by the CIA are precursors for

      Stop being hysterical. Bad as the security complex is, it is nowhere near the levels we've seen in the past in places like the GDR.

      Being a watchful citizen and demanding accountability from the government is called for.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    36. Re: Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looks like you are all ready to go for 1984, citizen. Here is your good citizen award.

    37. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wife and I always wave at the flat screen when these stories are on the news.
      TV doesn't have a camera or mic...

    38. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You're assuming that our society will continue onward.

      Look around. The globe is warming up, weather is going bonkers, and the biosphere is getting ready to have a heart attack. We're in the biggest period of economic uncertainty ever thanks to race-to-the-bottom economics, ever encroaching automation, and the rise of thinking machines that can replace even once hallowed positions like doctors and lawyers. Politics has gotten incredibly divisive, with extremes so divorced from reality our great-grandparents wouldn't have accepted it as fiction. Instead of moving past things like race, gender, and class, we're edging closer and closer to starting civil wars based around those things.

      The future isn't a boot stomping on a human face forever. It's at best, a perpetual post-collapse agrarian existence where our descendants tell their children grand tales of how the ancients used to be able to fly and cross the oceans in mere hours while being able to ask the machine spirits for the answer to any question they could imagine. Don't think it can happen? Remember that when Rome fell, we forgot how to make fucking concrete for a couple centuries. We have a lot further to fall this time.

    39. Re:Is any of this new? by gosand · · Score: 1

      1) The CIA has the ability to break into Android and iPhone handsets, and all kinds of computers.

      That's part of the spying thing and has been for at least the last 2-3 decades.

      Yep. I worked at Motorola in the early to late 90s, in the cellular division. We built the infrastructure platforms for bag/car/mobile phones.
      One fine day, there were some suits there for meetings. When we asked management what it was about, we were told it was a government project around Iridium (satellite phones) and it couldn't be discussed. Word around the office was that it was actually to make sure there were allowances built into our systems for wiretapping. I never saw any real evidence of it, but there wouldn't really be a way to know. I think then it was less around the handset and more about the infrastructure.

      I think it would be naive to believe the government wouldn't do that, and even more so to think it wasn't still happening 20+ years later.

      --

      My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    40. Re:Is any of this new? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh MY SIDES! rofl

    41. Re:Is any of this new? by Reziac · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering... after the batteries are removed, how long can a big capacitor power the mic and memory?

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    42. Re:Is any of this new? by NewYork · · Score: 1

      Android is OSS; Why it is not detected?

  9. Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by rahvin112 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'll bet serious money this enrages Trump and he threatens to arrest and detain Assange.

    1. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Spy+Handler · · Score: 0, Troll

      I'll bet serious money this enrages Trump and he threatens to arrest and detain Assange.

      Maybe. But at least his first reaction wasn't "Can't we just drone this guy?" *

      *by drone she meant killing Assange with a Hellfire air-to-ground missile fired from a Reaper drone. Not referring to a consumer quadcopter drone like the DJI phantom. Quote is by Secretary of State Clinton

    2. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Camel+Pilot · · Score: 1, Informative

      Trump love Assange.... and vice a versa.

    3. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It makes the CIA look bad and can lend more credence to his conspiracy theories. I think this makes him happy not mad.

    4. Re: Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's no evidence she ever said that.

    5. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah. Emperor Cheeto might even have him whacked before the cheque clears.

    6. Re: Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by ichthus · · Score: 0

      There's more evidence she said that, than there is that Russia hacked the DNC.

      --
      sig: sauer
    7. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet serious money you haven't taken the red pill yet. The behavior of the CIA reflects on Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama, not Trump. He wants the CIA dead and gone just like we do.

    8. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by connect4 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The quote is from an alt-right shit site you moron.

    9. Re: Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Orange One most certainly does not want the CIA gone, he wants it to answer to his whims without question or hesitation.

    10. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 2

      But at least his first reaction wasn't "Can't we just drone this guy?"

      People are constantly justifying the inane things Trump says by claiming he was joking, or not being serious, or that he was misinterpreted. Just today, the chairman of the House Intelligence committee said "I think a lot of the things he says, I think you guys sometimes take literally." Maybe you could give Hillary the same artistic license and consider that perhaps she was joking or misinterpreted? Oh, who am I kidding. She's a Democrat, you'll give her no quarter.

      --
      "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
    11. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by skids · · Score: 1

      But he hates not being the center of attention above all. If you want to predict when the next granpa twet storm is going to come, track how much coverage is about him. When it starts to dip... when Sessions gets the spotlight for example, we are in for another crazy rant.

    12. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      More to the point, Hillary is in the past. What difference does it make what she would have done, if we currently have a lunatic as president? You can't defend Trump's actions by saying, "Hillary was worse."

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    13. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What we need now is a bunch of satire comics that either show Trump using CIA as a tool to oppress the people or indicates that CIA are the ones who really are running the show.
      Whatever is needed to make Trump go into full attack mode against CIA.

      Really, if the two of them start to fight we might get rid of one of them.

    14. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the point is there are still people running around claiming that Hillary would have been better than Trump.

    15. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by gravewax · · Score: 1

      unlikely, Trump has been desperate for a distraction, even if it is at the expense of one of his own Agencies (not that he has much respect for them anyway... hmmm perhaps he is not always wrong), regardless Trump and team must be breathing a collective sign of relief with this.

    16. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by gtall · · Score: 1

      Nope, Trump will use it to his political advantage to crack down on the CIA knowing that they know a lot about the skeletons in his closet. They'll break out and do a tap dance sooner or later. However, Trump's modus operandi is to kick the can down the road for any of his screw ups. If he can do that effectively enough, he never has to take responsibility for those screw ups. He's more or less doing time until he's dead.

    17. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Ansonmont · · Score: 1

      "Srsly, Stevenson would have failed bigly in Korea! What a loser. SAD!"- Ike

    18. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Nope. The CIA is one of the agencies that is currently actively working against Trump, by helping out with investigating his Russia links. This has all the hallmarks of Assange giving Trump a reacharound.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    19. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by ScentCone · · Score: 2

      Hillary Clinton is NOT in the past. Because the people who do things like block ambulances on public roads and burn the property of small business owners and beat people bloody on college campuses are upset that she didn't win, and think that her electoral college loss was illegitimate. All of the vitriol and violence and vandalism is outrage that the election didn't go her way. She spent wildly more money, and had virtually the entire media and entertainment industry working for her, and lost - and all of the histrionics on the left are, and continue to be, about that. The entire "it was the Russians, in collusion with Trump!" delusion is an ongoing effort to distract from the fact that the person that millions of people thought was entitled to more political power couldn't convince enough states to give her and her husband back that power. She's (thankfully) "the past," yes. But she's the near-past that the mainstream media is still saying should be the present.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    20. Re: Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Was it the "Russians"? So the "Russians" hack Hillary, "Russians" hack Trump, "Russians" hack the RNC, "Russians" hack DNC; Anyone else seeing a pattern here? No doubt the real Russians would have enjoyed those hacks, but the risk to benefit ratios are pretty high. Now if the CIA did all or most of that and made it look like the "Russians" that would be another kettle of fish.

      It maybe the CIA is channeling the ghost of J. Edgar Hoover and nobody realised it.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    21. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry, I'll give Trump no quarter either.

      Politician? NO QUARTER.

    22. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      "The Buck Stops at Hillary!"

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    23. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...or perhaps hacked-car-suicide him?

    24. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to lay into the opposite. I bet the CIA has the proof about his Russian connections and he wants to get the whole thing re-structured with his people. And since we know that Wikileaks is also in bed with the Russians....

    25. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Not an argument."

    26. Re: Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Assume the Russians did all that hacking. What risk did they run, assuming Putin was OK with it? Who was going to retaliate?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    27. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      burn the property of small business owners and beat people bloody on college campuses are upset that she didn't win

      The evidence for that is very scanty. Just because something is destroyed in a left-wing demonstration doesn't mean it was destroyed by someone from the left wing. They let just anybody into those demonstrations, without checking political credentials, and the most obvious motive for violence is to discredit the people holding the demonstrations.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    28. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He loved Assange when Assange was a thorn in Hillary's side

      Trump isn't exactly a bastion of steadfast loyalty. If Assange does anything to aggravate the White House, they'll turn on him in an instant.

    29. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by ScentCone · · Score: 2

      OK then, we'll just stick with the left-wing college newspapers who cheered it on and called for more. Or the people in the crowd holding typical liberal protest signs cheering on the beating and silencing of the people they don't like. Regardless of which of their factions shows up to beat and destroy, isn't the fact that the liberals who watch it or write about it LIKE it enough for you?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    30. Re:Betcha Trump is going to mad at Assange again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK then, we'll just stick with the left-wing college newspapers who cheered it on and called for more.

      The mysteriously unnamed ones. For all we know, you've been looking at copies of the Harvard Lampoon.

      Or the people in the crowd holding typical liberal protest signs cheering on the beating and silencing of the people they don't like.

      Mysteriously unidentified ones, you can't even point us out a sign that actually requires you to believe what it says.

      Regardless of which of their factions shows up to beat and destroy, isn't the fact that the liberals who watch it or write about it LIKE it enough for you?

      Which ones? You keep ranting and railing at these alleged people, but...you never identify them. Why is that?

      Why??

      (1) Japanese troops set off a small explosion on a train track in 1931, and falsely blamed it on China in order to justify an invasion of Manchuria. This is known as the “Mukden Incident” or the “Manchurian Incident”. The Tokyo International Military Tribunal found: “Several of the participators in the plan, including Hashimoto [a high-ranking Japanese army officer], have on various occasions admitted their part in the plot and have stated that the object of the ‘Incident’ was to afford an excuse for the occupation of Manchuria by the Kwantung Army .” And see this.

      (2) A major with the Nazi SS admitted at the Nuremberg trials that – under orders from the chief of the Gestapo – he and some other Nazi operatives faked attacks on their own people and resources which they blamed on the Poles, to justify the invasion of Poland.

      (3) Nazi general Franz Halder also testified at the Nuremberg trials that Nazi leader Hermann Goering admitted to setting fire to the German parliament building in 1933, and then falsely blaming the communists for the arson.

      (4) Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev admitted in writing that the Soviet Union’s Red Army shelled the Russian village of Mainila in 1939 – while blaming the attack on Finland – as a basis for launching the “Winter War” against Finland. Russian president Boris Yeltsin agreed that Russia had been the aggressor in the Winter War.

      (5) The Russian Parliament, current Russian president Putin and former Soviet leader Gorbachev all admit that Soviet leader Joseph Stalin ordered his secret police to execute 22,000 Polish army officers and civilians in 1940, and falsely blame it on the Nazis.

      (6) The British government admits that – between 1946 and 1948 – it bombed 5 ships carrying Jews attempting to flee the Holocaust to seek safety in Palestine, set up a fake group called “Defenders of Arab Palestine”, and then had the psuedo-group falsely claim responsibility for the bombings (and see this, this and this).

      (7) Israel admits that in 1954, an Israeli terrorist cell operating in Egypt planted bombs in several buildings, including U.S. diplomatic facilities, then left behind “evidence” implicating the Arabs as the culprits (one of the bombs detonated prematurely, allowing the Egyptians to identify the bombers, and several of the Israelis

  10. #3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Point 3 is just dropping yet another reason on top of the large pile of reasons why I'll never ever buy a 'Smart TV'.

    1. Re:#3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you might as well stop using smart phones, or anything that is connected to the internet

    2. Re:#3 by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      its now to the point where any tv that is worth owning is 'smart'. beyond a certain size, (vizio, for sure) its all smart-only.

      but - just don't connect a network to it and its not ever going to be 'smart'. no network == dumb tv. no forced firmware upgrades, no wiretapping, no nothing.

      I would not worry about so-called smart tv's. disable networking and you're safe.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    3. Re:#3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      are you sure that smart TV can't hack into any nearby wifi? It'd be easy enough

    4. Re:#3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Point 3 is just dropping yet another reason on top of the large pile of reasons why I'll never ever buy a 'Smart TV'.

      Don't connect it to your home network, and don't live next door to an idiot with an unsecured wifi router. Make the agents park a non-descript van outside your home just like the good old days.

    5. Re:#3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      disable networking and you're safe.

      unless these TVs have hidden means to connect to the internet...

    6. Re:#3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably not. If the smart TV would have wifi capability then it would be advertised so that the TV sells better.
      In other words, you just want to buy a TV without wifi.

    7. Re: #3 by nastyphil · · Score: 1

      I always give my various network SSIDs tags like ASIO_van0178 or NSA_wetteam6 or TVdetectorvan

      --
      Dialectician. Archology.
    8. Re:#3 by gtall · · Score: 1

      Yep, it turns out I know your CIA and NSA minders. They're VERY interested in your choice of food, what you watch, etc. Those little incidentals just get them all excited.

    9. Re:#3 by bazorg · · Score: 1

      No smart TV because of this "threat"? LOL

      Just skip those bargain-bin deals and get one from a trustworthy manufacturer.

      My TV is a Sony and they would never allow any stupid malware to go through their QA.

    10. Re:#3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you familiar with PowerLine adaptors ? (Ethernet over standard mains cable)

      A smart TV is useless without electricity. What's to stop it also firing packets out via the power grid ?

      Yes the range is supposed to be quite small. But is that the truth ?

      Paranoid ? Me ?

    11. Re:#3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not every Smart TV has cameras and microphones. I and my family own several Smart TVs produced in the last 2-3 years. None of them have microphones or cameras.

    12. Re: #3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wtf. Seriously? You trust Sony? The same Sony with the rootkit? The same sony whose smart TVs can get malware and spy on you?

      Did I miss a whoosh?

    13. Re:#3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except all "smart" TV's have built-in wi-fi.

      And your dumb-as-a-brick neighbor has an open access point.

      And you can't trust the TV to actually do anything when you use the "turn wi-fi off" setting.

      And the TV's wi-fi hardware is baked into the SoC that controls the tuner and IrDA, so to disable it in hardware would destroy the functionality of the TV itself.

      If you buy a "TV", you're basically fucked. Get an HD Homerun or similar instead, and run your "TV" from a Raspberry Pi and a computer monitor. It won't be CIA-proof, but it won't snoop on you by default and it won't be standardized enough or common enough to make targeting you an easy job.

    14. Re:#3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I and my family own several Smart TVs produced in the last 2-3 years. None of them have microphones or cameras.
      None of you and your family have microphones or cameras?
      But your Smart TVs do?

  11. who knew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Technology was, is and will always be vulnerable.

    1. Re:who knew by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 1

      A little, but maybe it has been kept extra vulnerable intentionally?

      There has to be some actual reason why we're still using C for internet facing code two decades after we know it's dumb as fuck to do so. It's so much more comforting to think that it's because of a conspiracy and influence peddling by three letter agencies pulling strings than to assume we collectively are utter incompetent fucking morons.

    2. Re: who knew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we are actually those dumb morons. Look at how much COBOL code is still out there. It's just technical inertia. The cost to rewrite Windows, Linux, X11, Chrome, and thousands of other pieces of massive software in a memory safe language like Rust would be insane.

      That's also assuming that they would actually use Rust correctly rather than turning off or side stepping its safety features for convenience.

      I say this as a C programmer. I could spend time learning and porting Rust and everything to my target platform, or I can just write my code in C because everything is already there and just works.

    3. Re: who knew by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Upgrading or rewriting all of the old code into something more modern would take, using all available programmers, several years and would consume the US's economy's output twice over.

      Or something to that effect the last time the question was raised.

    4. Re: who knew by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 1

      Most of that code has been written after we discovered what a stupid fucking language C was.

    5. Re: who knew by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      C is stupid? Well then assembler is stupid, since C is used because it is close to and has the power of assembly ... and then our processors are stupid because they use assembler (machine language before you get pedantic).

      Only the newbie C programmers who don't know how to protect against such things as buffer overrun or the managers who don't give their cheap newbie programmers enough time or tools to do so are stupid.

      Every hacked website is the result of the boss weighing security against cost and coming to the wrong decision.

  12. Smart TV is worrisome by Spy+Handler · · Score: 4, Insightful

    3) The CIA could use smart TVs to listen in on conversations that happened around them. One of the most eye-catching programs detailed in the documents is "Weeping Angel." That allows intelligence agencies to install special software that allows TVs to be turned into listening devices -- so that even when they appear to be switched off, they're actually on.

    I'm pretty good with Windows and Linux desktops... there are steps I can take to check for spyware/malware and deal with them if found.

    But my Samsung TV, I haven't the foggiest idea. I don't know how to type commands into it or even what kind of an OS it runs.

    1. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by chispito · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But my Samsung TV, I haven't the foggiest idea. I don't know how to type commands into it or even what kind of an OS it runs.

      Then don't put it on the network if you're concerned.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    2. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by WilliamGeorge · · Score: 2

      That lack of control is part of why I still use a home theater PC. I can control what is going on more, and have access to far more entertainment options than any "Smart" TV or even a plug-in like Roku.

      I think my latest TV might actually have some "Smart" features, but I don't use them and never connected it to my WiFi network... so even if it had the capacity to be used for monitoring, being off the Internet prevents any such nefarious use.

      --
      William George
    3. Re: Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Of course it may try to connect to open WiFi, I suggest taking a look at the inards.

    4. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently you didn't read the article. Your 'home theatre PC' is just as vulnerable as the Smart TV. You're deluding yourself, just like the fellow who posted above you thinking that he can find and deal with sufficiently sophisticated spyware/malware.

    5. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by slew · · Score: 1

      3) The CIA could use smart TVs to listen in on conversations that happened around them. One of the most eye-catching programs detailed in the documents is "Weeping Angel." That allows intelligence agencies to install special software that allows TVs to be turned into listening devices -- so that even when they appear to be switched off, they're actually on.

      I'm pretty good with Windows and Linux desktops... there are steps I can take to check for spyware/malware and deal with them if found.

      But my Samsung TV, I haven't the foggiest idea. I don't know how to type commands into it or even what kind of an OS it runs.

      If your "desktop" machine has been owned enough with a boot sector style spyware/malware (like a keylogger), I don't think that there are simple steps you can take to detect them (you pretty much have to move your boot drive to a trusted machine to scan/fix it)... Since Smart TVs get manufacturer OTA updates all the time to update their "apps", I suspect Weeping Angel would want to operate on a level similar to a boot sector style spyware/malware and compromise the device on a low enough level to survive a typical OTA...

    6. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well... I have Norton as well as Mcafee installed and wear 2 condoms should be safe.

    7. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Spy+Handler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Then don't put it on the network if you're concerned.

      Well that kind of defeats the purpose of buying the TV in the first place, I use it to watch Netflix.

      I suppose I can disconnect it from my wifi like you said and then get a Chromecast stick or some such plug-in device. But having the feature built-in was a lot more convenient, no need to boot up a second device or use a second remote controller, etc.

      Also if my TV is infected, how do I know if it's really disconnected from wifi? I suppose I would have to get a packet analyzer and record all packets for like a week and see if the TV sent anything over the network.

    8. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Spy+Handler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      wait nevermind, it just occurred to me that i can check the wifi router's DHCP log and see if the smart TV connected.

    9. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you own any computer with an Intel or AMD processor then you're vulnerable to an ME/PSP exploit.

    10. Re: Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or removing some of the innards. There are two things that should never be connected to a network or other kind of transmitter that you do not personally control absolutely every aspect of:

      - Anything with a camera or microphone unless the camera is covered and the microphone disabled somehow.
      - Anything with a GPS receiver

    11. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Most LG and Samsung TVs are an ARM based linux busybox distro.

      Some even have an open port you can telnet/ssh to.

    12. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Bring an ethernet computer to your HDMI display and watch protected streaming services on that.
      When done, disconnect the TV.
      No need to have a powered, networked computer with a cam and mic on 24/7 as a "display" when work is been talked about.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    13. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Depends on the network to log. Would a clandestine service use an existing internet connection or wifi in from another wifi network they control in the area?
      Whats the risk that a user is running a network protocol analyzer on their own network? Or finds an outside wifi connection connecting to their smart TV?
      A random outside wifi connection or risk entering a users own wired and wireless network that might be logged?

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    14. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by dbIII · · Score: 2

      I suppose I can disconnect it from my wifi like you said and then get a Chromecast stick or some such plug-in device

      Or you could just use it as a monitor for a PC and watch shows that way (I do that but it is a very cheap TV not a "smart" one), but cabling hassles etc get in the way for most people (plus MS Windows sucks with multiple screens that are not on at all times). What about finding out where the microphone is and just block it's ability to pick anything up?

    15. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by ArylAkamov · · Score: 1

      Then don't put it on the network if you're concerned.

      It doesn't need to be.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    16. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by ArylAkamov · · Score: 1

      All routers are compromised as well, at the hardware level. All computers with UEFI are also compromised before the OS has loaded.

    17. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by ArylAkamov · · Score: 1

      If your "desktop" machine has been owned enough with a boot sector style spyware/malware

      They are owned by UEFI. All of them.

      https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/...

      Operating system, installed programs, processor, encryption, none of it matters.

    18. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      First mistake - buying a "smart" TV.
      Second mistake - plugging your "smart" TV into the Internet.
      Third mistake - putting your "smart" TV into your bedroom while havng sex.

    19. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

      Linux, as of late.

      http://www.digitaltrends.com/h...

      "According to an official statement issued by the company today, all Samsung smart TVs will now run on Tizen, an open-source, Linux-based operating system (OS) developed and supported primarily by Samsung and Intel."

    20. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why worry about doing all that work with TEMPEST when HEC is around?

      http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/hec.aspx

      Just ask the AVR or BD player to proxy the connection out.

    21. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OS is linux on most models.
      feel like rooting it go here -----> http://wiki.samygo.tv/index.php?title=Main_Page

    22. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      It kind of makes you wonder why there's a microphone in your TV at all, though.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    23. Re: Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cell phones are straight out!

    24. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of these "smart functions" will be obsoleted in a few months/year when the streaming service you use will suddenly decide to change their api and they won't be ready for that new big thing that will be released next month. You are screwed anyway in no time your smart tv will just be a standard hdmi monitor filled with additionnal security issues.

      Plus most of these smart TV's UI are terrible.

    25. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oil is all natural. Oil is organic. It is part of nature, occurring naturally. It has been seeping from the earth for thousands of years without harm.

      Humans are pretty arrogant to think that they are better than Nature. Oil is degraded naturally in the environment by wind, water, ultraviolet light, and microorganisms.

      So what is behind this new get rich quick scheme? As our European forefathers asked "cui bono?"

      Who benefits? Simple. The shysters and fraudsters who try to wrangle contracts and lucrative government and investor money for their hare brained scheme. Do you know the Sham Wow Guy ? Or the vegomatic? Or any of those other scam artists peddling their cheap made in China doodads? Well these "scientists" have those pikers beat by a country mile.

      These crooked "scientists" make fabulous salarys while shamelessly scamming the general public. Take that fake scientist Bill Nye. He is at the top of the heap of slight of hand artists. How much do you think he's worth? How much has this master snake oil salesman profited from his outlandish claims? How much is he worth? Try Six and a Half Million Dollars! That's $6,500,000.

      Now consider the poor earthy-crunchy greenie shlub. He has a degree in sociology. He's pushing 30 years old. He meticulously recycles plastic/paper/glass/food scraps. His vegan diet consists of quinoa and rice. He shuffles around in Birkenstocks, works at the Rite Aid for a little over minimum wage, 31.5 hours per week, less that 20K per year. It's not enough hours even to qualify for company insurance.

      Our poor schlub has a sunken chest and a pale pasty complexion. This chump lives this spartan third-world lifestyle so that he can "help the earth", sending every spare shekel to foundations controlled by the likes of Bill Nye, people who cruise around in tricked out Cadillac Escalades, while quinoa Birkenstock boy humps to work on his two wheel thrift shop "cruiser",

      Cui bono? Who benefits? Why the fraudsters behind this "Magic Oil Sponge", the crooks and "scientists" pocketing a fortune in graft while putting the the Sham Wow Guy magic sponge to shame. Mr. Sham Wow couldn't even dare to dream of a con this large and lucrative.

    26. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > so that even when they appear to be switched off, they're actually on

      When I switch off my TVs I use a physical switch to turn off power at the socket. When they're off, they're off !

      The only things in my house that get to sit drawing power all day and night are my fridge, my server, and (in the winter only) my boiler.

    27. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you've got an MS machine on your network having a Smart TV "phone home" is the least of your worries.

    28. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      But having the feature built-in was a lot more convenient

      Convenience or security, take your pick.

    29. Re: Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Prescription refill time.

    30. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Your assuming there isn't a 4G or 3G chip in the bloody thing, that calls home with telemetery and to get "updates" periodically.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    31. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even that is no guarantee. What if one of my neighbors has an open access point?

    32. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure that your router wasn't compromised at the same time as the TV?

    33. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The answer to this question will save you money -- literally. Just put a smart switch or any kind of switch for that matter between your TV and it's power supply. Those things suck juice when they're "OFF" and it costs money. Install a KILL-A-WATT if you don't believe me.

    34. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      It kind of makes you wonder why there's a microphone in your TV at all, though.

      Voice control presumably.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    35. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

      Then don't put it on the network if you're concerned.

      That might not do the trick. HDMI cables transmit data too.

    36. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Distributed wireless networks are popping up in towns all over the country. They are usually installed under guise that they will be selling government and business level services but not public access. Chances are, if you live in a town of more than 40,000 people, there is one of these already in your town or will be before then end of the decade.

      Simply keeping it off your network, does not mean that it isn't connected to another nearby network. That goes for your phone, your tv, all your stupid IoT crap, anything that has wireless capability.

    37. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by dmt0 · · Score: 1

      The only problem part in the TV is the microphone if it has one, right?

    38. Re: Smart TV is worrisome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That might be a bit extreme. Just blocking your TV from accessing Internet at the router should suffice, no?

      That way you can use some of the smartness like DLNA

    39. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I've had devices that apparently managed to connect to the Internet at some time that I never gave the WiFi password to.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    40. Re:Smart TV is worrisome by danmoran · · Score: 1

      The newer models run Tizen OS, based on the Linux kernel.

  13. The World According to Garp, er, Brill: by rmdingler · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The government's been in bed with the entire telecommunications industry since the forties. They've infected everything. They get into your bank statements, computer files, email, listen to your phone calls... Every wire, every airwave. The more technology used, the easier it is for them to keep tabs on you. It's a brave new world out there. At least it'd better be.

    As great as the internet's free flow of information has been for the average human, there is another entity that has benefited even more...

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:The World According to Garp, er, Brill: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yes and no. in the old days when they followed you around they followed you to the park too. Now they are too lazy to dispatch humans, and they don't follow you to the park nearly as much, which makes it easier to converse in private than it used to be, at least while being investigated.

  14. Re:Fuck the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fighting bigotry with bigotry solid plan

  15. second cold press by epine · · Score: 1

    There are already quite a few tools in computational journalism to automate the early assessment of a large data dump.

    What do Journalists do with Documents?
    C+J 2016: Documents, Data Mining and Discovery

    As with all things, I'm sure the 20-80 rule applies.

  16. Safe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm safe. Turns out buying a Windows Phone was a good choice after all.

    1. Re:Safe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, you're the guy!

    2. Re:Safe by bazorg · · Score: 2

      Same here! practically 100% theft-proof!

  17. Uh, and this surprises... whom? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Wikileaks jumped the shark.

  18. What is the surprise exactly? by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 2

    If you didn't know this kind of thing was going on, you weren't paying attention. The job of the intelligence agencies is to... gather intelligence, particularly the kind that people don't want collected and kill foreign enemies covertly. This is why they are not allowed to act inside the US. Every other intelligence agency on the planet does exactly the same thing. If you think otherwise you are living in a fantasy land bubble.

    --
    If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    1. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

      This is why they are not allowed to act inside the US.

      Which the CIA neatly sidesteps by having a "domestic agency" attached to an operation.

      By domestic agency they mean one clueless newbie FBI agent tagging along with the tough seasoned elite operators of the "real" intelligence agency.

    2. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by dbreeze · · Score: 1

      First, if you think this release is relevant only to activities outside the US you are naive, at best. Second, if you DID know this kind of thing was going on, and weren't making all the noise you could to combat this infringement, you deserve the tyranny that rules you, and are also responsible for its power over others.

      America wasn't built with "business as usual/not my problem" attitudes...

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    3. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      By domestic agency they mean one clueless newbie FBI agent tagging along with the tough seasoned elite operators of the "real" intelligence agency.

      Why, Special Agent Dr. Stanley Goodspeed, is that you!?

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    4. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2

      Of course I knew this was going on. Not only that, I expect and approve that it goes on. I want my country to have the best fucking weapons to use and the best intelligence on other countries. Yes, it's power. But unilateral disarmament just leads to a Russian flag over the capitol.

      Yes, dragnets are bad. But so far these have all been targetted things. I have no illusion that the US government could read my mail, listen to my phone, use a stealthy drone with night vision, or otherwise montior everything I do. I have no problem with that capability. I only have a problem if they have the ability to do that to the entire population. Because one way is dealt with by warrants or specific enemies, and the other is used as a dragnet to control the population.

      Hell, if the government wants to, I'm under no illusion I could stop them from killing me. Killing me dead. Or beating me with a wrench til I give them all my passwords. Again, I don't really have a problem with them having that capability.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    5. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by dbreeze · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So they've scared you that bad, huh? Ready to sacrifice all so long as they keep you safe from the boogeyman.

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    6. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...people like you are part of the problem...

    7. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      No, I'm not worried about a boogeyman. I am worried about my country being at a disadvantage in a war. Cause, you know, they happen.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    8. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by Bongo · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking there's the notion that, individual citizens can afford to lead peaceful lives, so long as the group/nation is being protected by force and power. But then those individuals, who pride themselves on being peaceful, can't place that peaceful morality onto those who are doing the protection.

      In the old days, the power would be the King, who was a dictator. Today we have a sort of more distributed power... not quite democracy where everyone votes on everything and everything is transparent, but at least, there's a variety of groups and interests, and they are funded by taxation, so in effect, normal people are paying taxes to the groups which are doing the protection.

      And I think it is honest to say, so long as things are fairly stable, so long as individuals can afford to lead peaceful lives, we do implicitly agree with there being powerful groups who have to do the protecting. We individuals can afford to be peaceful because we contracted out *our* dirty work to others.

      It is one of the many specialisations which allow modern societies to work. Just like how I don't have to get my hands dirty growing my own vegetables.

      And I agree with you that these things have to exist, and if we didn't have them, well, look at what happened to the Native Americans who met with a more technically powerful people who couldn't resist a land grab.

      Of course just as a King could abuse his own power, how do we know these groups are not abusing their power? But however one tries to answer that, I think one has to judge it from the point of view of the task of being powerful enough to protect, rather than the morality of common person who lives a peaceful sheltered life.

    9. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      worse than scared, just crazy.

    10. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I'm not worried about a boogeyman. I am worried about my country being at a disadvantage in a war. Cause, you know, they happen.

      Civil rights and liberties be damned, as long as I can sit in front of my computer screen with my Cheeto-cheese covered fingers and Mountain Dew, I'm alright!

      Whatever happened to "give me liberty, or give me death"? Are we so scared of our mortality that we'd circumvent human rights just to live a little longer? Do you believe that wars between rich people's toy soldiers (their politician friends' constituents) are worth more than freedom?

    11. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      No, I'm not worried about a boogeyman. I am worried about my country being at a disadvantage in a war. Cause, you know, they happen.

      So, literally the only thing that matters is being in a position to win a war? An absolute dictatorship would be the most efficient means of ensuring this outcome*. If we want to have some level of liberty in the process, then liberty itself must be defended. It's not just "terrorists" or "communists" or "China" that is a threat to liberty unless we define "threats to liberty" as only coming from external entities.

      *Yes, it didn't work out so well for Hitler, Stalin, or Mussolini...but each had their own reasons for failure that had very little to do with the fact that they were indeed dicatators.

    12. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 1

      No, I'm not worried about a boogeyman. I am worried about my country being at a disadvantage in a war. Cause, you know, they happen.

      You can be an advocate for strong national defense (in both conventional weaponry, and intelligence and information systems weaponry) while also demanding very rigorous oversight of those weapons and the depts and individuals that use them. And the rigor and rigidity of the oversight should be proportional to the power wielded.

      Sadly, the CIA (and NSA) have expanded the power of their "weapons" without anywhere near a proportional increase in oversight and scrutiny, as demonstrated by their brushing off of the attempted scrutiny by the Senate Intelligence Committee. More noise should be made by us, so that our congress critters actually push through the intelligence community's threats and manipulations, and establish oversight that can actually be effective in preventing abuses of power.

      --
      Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
    13. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      So, literally the only thing that matters is being in a position to win a war?

      No, that's a very bad strawman of my position. My position is that constraining the government to be able to use the amount of force I can personally fend off with a small-arm is very bad. Sure, it means I'm safe from the tyranny of my own government, but I imagine that means another country would quickly invade and conquer it. I want my government to have all kinds of weapons like tanks and drones.

      I feel the same is true with cyber weapons. As I pointed out, I'm not concerned about my individual safety if the government decides to intercept my (specific) communications. In no small part, if they needed to, they could show up at my house and take my phone and make me unlock it. I have no illusions about being able to fight off the army or withstand determined interrogation. That said, there are safeguards (legal, cultural, etc.) that should prevent them from doing so, or provide me recourse if they do. So long as those same safeguards apply, I see no difference between them hitting my until they know my password or them using a vulnerability to get it.

      (Totally offtopic, but absolute dictatorships tend to lose wars vs. democracies.)

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    14. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by jediborg · · Score: 1

      10 Times today it was repeated on CNN that the CIA "Only spies on foreign citizens, not on US citizens"

      I don't believe that for one second. Knowing how little oversight the CIA gets from congress they could dragnet all of American communications and lie to congress and say they weren't doing it. Actually, wait isn't that exactly what the NSA did? Didn't Former NSA director James Clapper lie under oath to congress when he professed the NSA wasn't spying on americans, just a few months before snowden proved that they where? Why should we expect the CIA to do any different, just because their mission statement say's they don't have jurisdiction to spy within american borders?

      Nobody's watching this watcher, which is why we shouldn't trust them one iota.

    15. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by Shane_Optima · · Score: 1

      That's not how I parsed his post. It's OK for the CIA to stockpile zero days[1]. It's ok for them to use them against hostile foreign powers. It's not ok for them to use them against reporters or political activists, especially American citizens on American soil. It's not ok for them to spy on everyone who owns a certain exploitable device.

      This is an area that demands nuance. Simply saying "durrr, we shouldn't be doing any of these things, against anyone, ever!" is masochism. It's the sort of masochism that often leads to the country drifting towards the right, because centrists are by and large not interested in pursuing an anti-American agenda that demands we self-flagellate and remove ourself as a global power to remove even the *possibility* that said power could be abused.

      Fight abuse. Don't fight tools. I'm someone who believes James Clapper should have been not merely fired but imprisoned for perjury, but that doesn't mean I'd support the wholesale destruction of our ability to use tradecraft in targeted ways.


      1. This is a somewhat debatable point, but as long as they aren't actively weakening the code base this seems reasonable enough. This about more than merely being able to eavesdrop on Russian spies or destroy Iranian centrifuges; it's also about being able to monitor what other spy agencies are doing or attempt to do and it's about the confidence those spy agencies could have in their ability to do things undetected. If the CIA were required to openly disclose any zero day that it knew about (and if this were actually enforced), that would mean that if their Russian or Chinese counterparts ever stumbled on a new zero day, they would instantly know that the CIA was ignorant of this vulnerability. Thus, such a policy would put us as a significant disadvantage in not just intelligence, but also counterintelligence.

    16. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Oh, sure. If you want to say that oversight is lacking and needs to be improved, I can probably be convinced (not being aware enough on the actual amount of oversight present.) But I have no reason to think that these leaks cover materials not subject to the proper oversight. And I'm certainly not happy about these leaks -- they solely cover technical capability and not illegitimate uses of said capability.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    17. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      I learned this bit of wisdom a long time ago and it has served me well over the years:

      "God, grant me the strength to accept the things that I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference."

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      I stay informed, I vote, I speak to my friends and distribute knowledge to those who will listen. I make the difference that I can.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    18. Re:What is the surprise exactly? by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      Capability and use of these capabilities are two different things. With government power comes abuses, which is why we have laws that limit the government. Within the US there are laws protecting citizens from illegal surveillance in what are assumed to be private circumstances (like phone calls or your bedroom). Can we still be spied on? Sure. If it comes out that this happened, the bad actors in the government can still be charged with felonies, removed and incarcerated, so does it keep me up at night? No. We are still demonstrably the most free nation on the planet (2nd amendment anyone else?) Many so called free European states don't even have freedom of speech as a legally spelled out right and you can be jailed for "hate speech" which means whatever the ruling party thinks it means...

      You have no understanding of just how free we are in America. It is true that we just had 8 years of the most lawless (attorney general Eric Holder is the only attorney general in history to leave office while being held in contempt of congress for not doing his damn job), dictatorial (pen and phone executive orders out the ass instead of working with elected representatives) president, but it appears that we are returning to the rule of law now that the media is doing its job again instead of towing the party line for comrade Obama.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
  19. Open Hardware by StormReaver · · Score: 1

    This makes open hardware more imperative. Are the operating system flaws all software, or are they hardware? Or firmware? If the latter two, are they flaws or cooperative effort by the manufacturers?

    I don't have time to read the entire thing, so I'm wondering what part of my Linux installations are being exploited. FOSS and FOSH are the only real digital defenses we have against our governments, as they are our only avenues of control.

    1. Re:Open Hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > This makes open hardware more imperative.

      Indeed. And not only because of the USA. I bet China already has their electronic components with vulnerabilities *they* can control.

      Russia, maybe.

      All this makes open hardware the best solution.

      > Are the operating system flaws all software, or are they hardware? Or firmware? If the latter two, are they flaws or cooperative effort by the manufacturers?

      Intel has a technology to take control of some of their CPUs (VPro IIRC). AMD came up with theirs even before Intel, it seems. It pays to learn about these "remote management subsystems".

    2. Re:Open Hardware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An open-source router does sound like a great idea for home use. Don't need much bandwidth in most cases. It would be a good idea to use baremetal since Linux is known to have exploits. Just simple outgoing connections only. A really simple switch shouldn't be that difficult to realize.

    3. Re:Open Hardware by dbreeze · · Score: 1
      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
  20. thank the gods by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    for my Amiga 3000 desktop!

  21. The Orange One is not so crazy now by sciengin · · Score: 0

    Sure his tweets about having been spied upon by Obama on Saturday (?) sounded like the usual tinfoil hattery, but now I am starting to think that there may be a grain of truth in it.

    1. Re:The Orange One is not so crazy now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Before you read this article, What did you think an intelligence agency do ?

    2. Re:The Orange One is not so crazy now by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Before you read this article, What did you think an intelligence agency do ?

      Follow the rule of laws and regulations setforth is what most people expect intelligence agencies to do. However in many countries intelligence agencies have gotten so large they see themselves apart from the government.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  22. Nah, he'll use it as internal attack vector by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He's praised Assange, and Assange has praised him, so he can't go back on that, his personality doesn't allow it. This is why Putin can attack the elections and Trump can't condemn it, because that would mean Trump admitting Trump was wrong.

    I think Trump is constantly looking for targets to attack. By targets I mean people. So he fails to get an immigration law change, he attacks the 'so called' judge. His government is leaky..."Obama is spying on me". Disabled reporter asks a difficult question.... "did you see this guy, hes all nhaa nhaa nhaa". In each case, it's an ad-hominen attack against the messanger of some Trump flaw to avoid addressing the flaw itself.

    So I think he will use it to attack CIA head, or FBI head, most likely Comey but maybe "Obama" again. Everything is just an opportunity for an ad-hominen attack, and as long as he's interacting with US people, then those attacks are mostly against Americans.

    1. Re: Nah, he'll use it as internal attack vector by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spot on sir. Mod up.

  23. Decent New Dumb TV by Miamicoastguard · · Score: 0

    Anyone have a link/links to buy a decent dumb TV? and by decent I mean new this year and not some Chinese junk. Look every couple of months as the computer screen is a bit small but there's no way I'll ever run dirty old android on a TV. Not only for the spyware etc etc, but who knows when it'll stop being supported. Anyway if there are any, thanks in advance, big help.

    1. Re:Decent New Dumb TV by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Setting aside the fact that any TV not connected to the internet is a dumb TV, what you're probably looking for is a Commercial TV. They tend not to come with all of the extra consumer crap.

    2. Re:Decent New Dumb TV by Miamicoastguard · · Score: 0

      Specs aren't really up to something worth paying for, bit of a shame.

  24. Re:The worst leak of all by rmdingler · · Score: 1

    A withered carrot? Amen Google. You rock like Slayer.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  25. not as single spies, but in battalions by Humbubba · · Score: 1

    Get ready, security. It's about to rain. It shouldn't take very long for these leaks to spur waves of hacking anywhere... everywhere.

    1. Re:not as single spies, but in battalions by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      Its already begun. I know of atleast 4-5 people digging through the dump as we speak.

    2. Re:not as single spies, but in battalions by Humbubba · · Score: 1
      Highdude702 wrote:

      Its already begun. I know of at least 4-5 people digging through the dump as we speak.

      You those those kids? Tell 'em to get off my lawn!

    3. Re:not as single spies, but in battalions by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      lol, Good one old man!

  26. The free flow of information is the only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
    Commissioner Pravin Lal, "U.N. Declaration of Rights"

    1. Re:The free flow of information is the only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guns help too.

    2. Re:The free flow of information is the only... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A handsome young cyborg named Ace, wooed women at every base, but once ladies glanced at his special enhancement, they vanished with nary a trace.

  27. You should be pirating Netflix shows by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Well that kind of defeats the purpose of buying the TV in the first place, I use it to watch Netflix.

    There's a pretty practical point of view, which says that is stupid.

    You shouldn't have machines that you're not in control of. Whenever you break that rule, you should minimize the powers of machines that you don't control.

    Since you don't control the TV, you should leave its network disconnected and it should get its input from HDMI.

    Since you can't control Netflix clients, you should pirate their shows, so that you don't have to use their client. That includes web browsers, since you can't control EME.

    Pirate Netflix, or else you are pro-surveillance. Netflix can always get serious (lose DRM, so that you can use any client that you want to) if they have a problem with the loss of revenue.

  28. Endorse the ethics of software freedom by jbn-o · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Doing so would make apps like Signal, Telegram and WhatsApp entirely insecure" is what makes running security-minded programs on non-free, user-subjugating, always-untrustworthy, proprietary OSes a joke. People get a sense that they're safer from malware then they really are and they think they get to keep their proprietary conveniences as well. Openwashing will not help you.

    I know it's a lot of work to learn new things and change your views and your behavior. I understand that software freedom is differently political than what you're encouraged to adopt, and software freedom requires you to consider more than what's listed in virtually every features & money-based ad campaign from monied proprietors. And I get that coming to terms with the consequences of software freedom runs directly contrary to believing that you don't need to think any further than what proprietors and their "open source" friends tell you to think about (because no proprietor frames their offerings in terms of the freedoms to run, inspect, share, and modify the software, hence proprietors are more likely to sanction the open source movement which eschews these values and even celebrates partnering with proprietors like Red Hat's recent uncritical commentary on Microsoft's software and Microsoft's new campaign regarding "Linux"—no mention of GNU which might bring software freedom to mind). But in the real world you need to stop trusting proprietary systems to keep you safe, respect your privacy, or other practical consequences of software freedom. Proprietary software wasn't designed to do that and therefore that software never will do that job. There is no middle ground which allows you to run proprietary software while retaining the benefits of software freedom. It's time to value software freedom for its own sake.

    Even if all published software were free, exploits like these are possible because all complex software has bugs. Perfect security is not the issue. The issue is who gets to control their own computer and how we treat each other. Even after these exploits are published by WikiLeaks and people have had time to consider them and protect against their adverse effects, proprietors will still have power over users who run their proprietary software. Users won't be able to tell what other exploits are out there and therefore it will be harder to protect against them. The difference between proprietary subjugation and software freedom becomes more clear: Free software users will be able to run, inspect, improve, and share improvements with others making that software more able to prevent future attacks. But proprietary software users won't be allowed to do the due diligence they need in order to help themselves no matter how technically skilled they are or how willing to repair things they are. No computer user deserves to be treated that way. It will take a lot of work to get people to understand why they too should care about software freedom even if they're non-technical (like most computer users are). So I urge you to understand software freedom for its own sake and to try to help others understand as well.

    Relatedly, the Free Software Foundation's "Respects Your Freedom" campaign has some new hardware on the list. I recommend buying some and using it, even if it's not up-to-date with the latest capabilities and seemingly expensive for what's offered. We need more people to invest in free replacements for proprietary, locked-down, user-subjugating systems. We need to make investments in our own collective future by funding the free products available today so we can have modern, highly-capable, and fully user-controllable POWER8, RISC, etc. systems which will respect the owner's control.

    1. Re:Endorse the ethics of software freedom by AHuxley · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Decades of thinking have gone into such efforts.
      After the 1950's cryptography was weak and international standards got a lot of free support in the press.
      A company, gov, mil or bank would buy in an approved network or some other nations product that was tested and worked well.
      Governments and mil knew a one time pad was secure but they had so much data to move. So new hardware was imported.
      The crypto on offer would be weak and US/UK would get all messages in real time.
      Once the world moved to more secure crypto, the clandestine services went for the weak hardware/software that was trendy and global.
      The OS and hardware used to read or create a message was junk but the crypto could be examined by all.
      Everyone agreed the crypto was so safe and that it was always going to be tested, studied and kept safe.
      If the academics and brands ever get the hardware, OS side fixed, expect a flood of new junk crypto again.
      With open source at least the OS and hardware has been looked at. The network might not be secure but at least a private message can be created and trade secrets, product designs can be protected until they are ready for sale, publication.
      The only other option is to fly staff around the world, use one time pads.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    2. Re:Endorse the ethics of software freedom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > Relatedly, the Free Software Foundation's "Respects Your Freedom [fsf.org]" campaign has some new hardware on the list.

      First off: Programs like this are _absolutely essential_. Like you say, binary blobs and components that you are legally barred from talking about or modifying are the building blocks of insecure systems.

      However, while most of the hardware on that list does provide certification details, some of it does not. A couple of those missing details are from machines endorsed in 2015!

    3. Re:Endorse the ethics of software freedom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus, the full scope of this hitting me for the first time.

      This isn't "software freedom" anymore, it's just plain freedom. We used to just talk about the "freedom to tinker" now the issue has shifted to freedom from Big Brother's backdoors! That's not a niche thing, that's an everybody thing...

      This isn't just nerds dodging junkie software, this is everyone's freedom from unreasonable searches.

      It's mind boggling!

      And it's our responsibility to fix this...

    4. Re:Endorse the ethics of software freedom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if all published software were free, exploits like these are possible because all complex software has bugs.

      So stop making the software complex.

      Software doesn't have to be complex to perform the simple functions that it does. It is complex because it's been developed outside a framework that enforces minimum complexity implementations onto the software. Those frameworks, like Capsicum and Pledge themselves are not complex, but they enforce a discipline of minimum complexity and minimum privilege that allow you to engineer software, that while not bug-free, can with some effort be exploit-free.

      If you prove the boxing mechanism (memory protection, IPC and namespace seggregation) is correct, and make the complexity of the interfaces low enough that the interfaces can't be exploited, the system can be exploit free even when components of the system have bugs.

      The basic analogy is fuses. It doesn't matter if my TV fucks out and sucks down 100A, because the fuse in the TV will blow, and if that fails the fuse in my distribution box will blow in about 10 seconds.

    5. Re:Endorse the ethics of software freedom by LienRag · · Score: 1

      You certainly are right about all this, but it's difficult to make that point if Linux too is vulnerable to CIA exploits...
      Wouldn't the first step to make sure that these exploits are fixed on GNU/Linux before making the point about Free Software?

  29. What to do by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    1. Start reading the tech news and books about past NSA, GCHQ, CIA projects over the decades.
    e.g. CIA Chief: We’ll Spy On You Through Your Dishwasher (03.15.12)
    https://www.wired.com/2012/03/...
    Past project shape new projects in the US gov. Electronic collection is the only growth area so that is what gets funding and political support.
    Collect it all is policy that can be understood by most people.
    2. Work out if the NSA, CIA or any other part of the US gov think your company or work is interesting.
    Is your brand in trade publications with glowing reports of encryption, advancement, new patents, funding, international support, rapid advancement in fields of tech the USA has always considered their own?
    3. Are you a member of the press seeking whistleblowers or are understood to be a good person to be contracted by a gov/mil whistleblower?
    4. Encryption seems to be holding as so much of it is now international and has faced open discussion rather than the junk closed efforts of the 1970's.
    The US has moved from supporting junk encryption to generations of junk consumer devices, expensive professional services that give away plain text.
    The crypto tests as safe and device/OS just gives away all the plain text as decrypted or entered.
    5. If it is vital to your company use paper and meet without a room full of smartphones, trendy smart consumer devices, reconsider that networked TV with a mic and webcam in the conference room.
    Air gap all devices and archives. Work on projects as if every network is giving data to your competitions.
    6. Staff risks? The CIA knows most of the staff will use a smart phone and a company is networked to the outside world. The digital way in is national, international.
    Most workers know to report any direct offers of cash to their own company or nations security services. Why? It could be a test and not reporting such contact is a huge risk.
    But that same security aware staff member will walk in with a smart phone and connect all networks to the internet for productivity.
    Secure your networks, hide your advanced work, tell staff to report any new friends, unexpected offers of cash.

    Big brand staff, academics, security researches will say crypto is safe, that the device is fixed, the OS is trustworthy, just like they did for decades.
    Smart phones and other US brands will be reported as been secured again. Then crypto will then be weakened. Once the faulty crypto is discovered the devices hardware/OS will leak plain text again but the crypto will work.
    The only constant over the years is the device will give up all data to the clandestine services.
    Stop using a smart phone for work that should be kept secure and all such issues stop over the decades.
    7. If none of that is possible, flood your networks that face the internet with junk files and reports. Amazing alpha, beta, internal testing files, projects. Interesting project names, connections with governments, how other brands projects are generations behind.
    Have a few workers just churn out the most amazing projects that link to or hint at other files that are secure. Reports to management of amazing results on projects that are pure fiction.
    Create other front companies, use the cloud and ensure their networked computers are more interesting than any real work been done.
    8. Only hire local staff and ensure they report issues, contact attempts, cash offers.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  30. and your all worried ABOUT RUSSIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the fbi nsa and cia do far more harm to earth then allllllllll the others combined

    1. Re: and your all worried ABOUT RUSSIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Funnily enough, the statements "The U.S. intelligence services are up to some disturbing shit" is not actually mutually exclusive with the phrase "Russia is up to some disturbing shit". Sometimes they even collaborate on getting up to disturbing shit!

    2. Re: and your all worried ABOUT RUSSIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However, the "what about you guys" response is a very common Russian/Soviet tactic. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

    3. Re: and your all worried ABOUT RUSSIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or compete to one-up each other in disturbing shit.

    4. Re: and your all worried ABOUT RUSSIA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about you, it's a common American tactic also.

  31. Wait until Barron gets his hands on these tools... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    President Trump will be able to spy on Obama for a change. I just hope Barron doesn't accidentally uncover a second Hillary Sex Tape - that could scar the poor little guy for life.

  32. Re:The worst leak of all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WikiLeaks accidentally posted Donald Trump's dick pic!

    Ugh. Imagine what it smells like. My first thought is "poor Ivanka."

  33. Crashing Cars? by grimfate · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Food for thought: Michael Hastings was apparently investigating the C.I.A. when he died in what sounds like a suspicious car crash. Officially, foul-play was ruled out. Quote from Wikipedia: "Former U.S. National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counter-terrorism Richard A. Clarke said that what is known about the crash is "consistent with a car cyber attack". He was quoted as saying "There is reason to believe that intelligence agencies for major powers — including the United States — know how to remotely seize control of a car. So if there were a cyber attack on [Hastings'] car — and I'm not saying there was, I think whoever did it would probably get away with it."" (This quote is from 2013.) Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    1. Re:Crashing Cars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoa? A wikipedia quote? You convinced me.

    2. Re:Crashing Cars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Whoa? Convinced you that wikipedia is a great place to start research? You convinced me too.

    3. Re:Crashing Cars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Car ECUs and data buses need black boxes and behavioral IDSs. And physical isolation between them, the entertainment/network and autonomous control/network sections.

    4. Re:Crashing Cars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bingo. The Michael Hastings death came straight to mind when I read about the remove vehicle control stuff yesterday. According to the widow he was investigating the CIA director at the time.

    5. Re:Crashing Cars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The source is actually the HuffPost. But I'm guessing that someone like you knows little to nothing about how to research correctly using sources like wikis... I really hope you're not one of those people making grandiose statements about scientific research based on USA Today headlines alone.

    6. Re:Crashing Cars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think about the makeup of a car the only thing that can be controlled are those with electronic controls.

      The two most safety critical components are the steering and the brakes. Neither is usually entirely electronically actuated in production (both have been tested as such in drive-by-wire concepts and prototypes). Steering can be indirectly affected by killing the engine. The power brakes usually operate off of vacuum, and there is usually enough vac left for 1-2 pushes on the brake after the engine is cut off*.

      I think the best chance to cause an accident is to disable the push-button ignition control and transmission shift functions while cranking the accelerator to 100% either directly or via cruise control. Second option would be cutting the engine during a situation in which the car's performance is required to prevent an accident (swerve, passing on a 2 lane road, etc.--which also required a visual assessment of the target vehicle).

      My guess is any car hacking product would have to be tightly coupled to the make and model of vehicle, which would have also led to reliability issues in the field.

      *Antilock brakes are usually designed to release pressure not create it. Whether the ABS can cause an uncontrolled deceleration electronically in a modern car is not something I fully understand.

    7. Re:Crashing Cars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The crash itself was caught on video. Mercedes just seemed to shrug at the giant fireball, and investigative journalism for Hasting's death seemed appallingly lacking, leaving so many questions unanswered.

      Images of the crash scene showed the engine had been ejected after the front-end impact with the tree, and the oil pan had been sheered off. My guess is that when the car hit the curb at high speed, the oil pan tumbling along the undercarriage ruptured the fuel tank, which accounts for that brief flash of light just before the explosion occurs. But if that was the case, centrifugal force should have sent the fuel and engine oil in a wide semi circle, and should have been seen burning on road itself after the crash.

      It is frustrating that no forensic investigation of the car was ever conducted, or what happened to the car after police cleared the scene. It was case closed from the very start. I'm glad though I'm not the only one who was reminded of Hasting's death upon hearing this news.

  34. No by s.petry · · Score: 0

    Was this around 1984 or so?

    Well before that, around the time that Atlas Shrugged.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  35. Linux malware... by dbreeze · · Score: 3, Informative

    https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/...

    https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/...

    Can someone give us the Cliff Notes on what we need to sudo rm -rf ??? Is it just routers being targeted...?

    --
    When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    1. Re:Linux malware... by dbreeze · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here's a few excerpts...

      V2.5.1
      11/29/2012
      Modifies all mikrotik, linux, and solaris code so any successful beacon or trigger will also create a /var/.config timer file if it does not already exists. Note that the trigger listening function will automatically self delete the executable if it discovers that the /var/.config file does not exists. If a self delete occurs, the normally empty /var/.config will contain a time stamp when the actual self delete occurred using a yymmddHHMMSS format. Previous versions would allow the
      executable to stay on the box but would stop the process whenever the /var/.config file was removed. Version 2.4's Caution for Solaris shells still applies. A new
      Hive updating script called hiveReset_v1_0.py was added which also resets the self-delete timer for all linux, Mikrotik, and Solaris devices.

      (S) Below is the list of files included in this release, along with their size and MD5 hashes.
      Filename File Size(bytes) MD5 Hash
      CCS.xml 490235 1dd06dd5b74ceb7cab9b599a22f99975
      cutthroat 1095780 caba38dc033c86f5f9daa837dfe4c2fa
      hive670859 216f0da2dca51fb33044e5b525db45a3
      hive-patcher 1368840 dee62bac8aa66f6a309c2bb1c675c3e0
      hiveReset_v1_0.py 60292 d3153e378e24f4bed0ceddfcab599fb8
      honeycomb.py 15500 5ef80df352e52e191556663c0bcc3059
      swindle.cfg 680 3b9185be038c826c39734f1be273b37f
      Unpatched Binaries
      hived-linux-i386-unpatched 165280 a7729c8b0c5f1b0f3bc1888a43be3525
      hived-mikrotik-i386-unpatched 163426 7905ecba0e020fe8883099fb45ff2e50
      hived-mikrotik-mipsbe-unpatched 234944 e74ad934ff90aa2354d3874009563343
      hived-mikrotik-mipsle-unpatched 235307 4f2d7d2e817684a21f2de8315c2d9eb3
      hived-mikrotik-ppc-unpatched 175812 0806e6641cafe014266d30ee1d4b37ef
      hived-solaris-i386-unpatched 174764 3adb8dfaf459948a0eea6a9439396059
      hived-solaris-sparc-unpatched 207720 aa853024ec50b914c3cb3717b36d7e5c

      --
      When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
    2. Re:Linux malware... by LienRag · · Score: 1

      Do they need physical access to activate these vulnerabilities, or are all linuxes vulnerable to attacks from the network? That would certainly be a point of concern...

  36. Absolutely NOTHING new here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow. There isn't a single thing listed there that wasn't known.

  37. Hacked phones are hacked phones by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    I've been going over this most all day (I'm retired, so I got fuck-all else to do on a rainy day).

    From what I can tell, the biggest takeaway is that a hacked phone is not secure. Encryption is still OK, and Signal and WhatsApp are still secure as far as we can tell. Everything else has already been known. Also, it's a good idea when vendors patch vulnerabilities, apparently. Who knew?

    EFF has written some interesting stuff about Vault7 today, on their webpage and Twitter account.

    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/...

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Hacked phones are hacked phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Encryption is fine for man in the middle attacks, but these are at OS level and can access the transducers directly, thus bypassing any security in the communication service.

      I don't know why people are surprised; it's been known CCDs and mics run hot in modern products. Few things are powered off, just monitor the current draw (if you know how to read a circuit board). Don't use those shitty kilawatt toys.

    2. Re:Hacked phones are hacked phones by budgenator · · Score: 1

      The encryption is secure over the network, but they are able to intercept it on the hardware before it's encrypted and after it's decrypted on the way to the display; at least they are if the leaked documents are accurate.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    3. Re:Hacked phones are hacked phones by thejynxed · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter if Signal and the rest still use encryption. What the CIA malware is doing, is capturing and exfiltrating the data before it is encrypted and sent in the apps and after data is received and decrypted (my guess, is that it is tapped directly into whatever controls device input and output at a hardware and OS level). This is what I've gathered from reading specifically into those sections of Vault 7.

      --
      @Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
    4. Re:Hacked phones are hacked phones by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      What the CIA malware is doing, is capturing and exfiltrating the data before it is encrypted and sent in the apps and after data is received and decrypted (my guess, is that it is tapped directly into whatever controls device input and output at a hardware and OS level).

      That's right. If your phone is hacked, it is no longer secure.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:Hacked phones are hacked phones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes you can see evidence of the camera taking pictures if you are making a video https://youtu.be/M6LIN82P0VM?t=1833

  38. And that's why... by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    "The CIA could use smart TVs to listen in on conversations that happened around them."

    And that's just one reason I'll never own a "smart" TV.

    I remember people laughing at the idea that anyone could or would covertly turn on the mic in your TV, but who's laughing now?

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  39. CIA Dr. Who fans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Weeping Angels are a Dr. Who monster.

    Just don't blink.

    1. Re:CIA Dr. Who fans by vel-ex-tech · · Score: 1

      Wow, 300+ comments and you're the only person to make the reference. The original weeping angel episode was one of the better episodes too before the show went to shit.

      I'm wondering why it's called "weeping angel" now. Eh, then again not like I've never needed to name something and the best I could do was a stupid reference to some show I was enjoying at the moment. On the flip side, at least cache invalidation is an approachable problem....

  40. Star Trek actor Anton Yelchin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Star Trek actor Anton Yelchin's Jeep Cherokee rolled back into him and killed him myseriously... Isn't the Jeep the one with the electronic transmission knob? Wasn't the Jeep remotely controlled years ago exposing how easy it is to hack via OnStar? Was Anton really *just* an actor or also a covert Russian spy killed by the CIA via remote control of his Jeep or payback for the election/Crimea... or the latter, Fiat/Chrysler makes Sh($ty vehicles?

    1. Re:Star Trek actor Anton Yelchin by bazorg · · Score: 1

      Star Trek actor Anton Yelchin's Jeep Cherokee rolled back into him and killed him myseriously...

      Nothing mysterious there. He died of natural causes.

      ie: his Jeep ran him over, naturally he died.

  41. Sudden Toyota acceleration... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CIA testing an exploit? Wouldn't have considered that before.

  42. Why do so many geeks like IoT stuff so much? by Shane_Optima · · Score: 1

    I plugged a laptop into a DVI port on our TV, got a wireless $10 mini-keyboard with integrated touchpad off of eBay, cranked up the icon and font sizes a bit I plugged a laptop into a DVI port on our TV, got a wireless $10 mini-keyboard with integrated touchpad off of eBay, cranked up the icon and font sizes a bit and it's worked out surprisingly well. It's much quicker to use than the 'smart' Bluray player we were previously using, and it can do a lot more... and it's running Qubes OS. Ain't no drive-by hacker getting in there.

    For the slightly less tenacious people who just want something approaching regular desktop Linux level security and a simpler interface, there's Myth TV. Which has been out for fifteen years. And there's also Kodi, which even non-technical people have heard of and apparently love.

    Addressing just the geeks in the audience: I don't understand the appeal of Roku and smart TVs the like, I really don't. They're slow. The remote-based UI is cumbersome as hell. They're vulnerable. They're un-upgradable. And for the most part they're no cheaper than an old laptop off of Craigslist that has HDMI or DVI out. I sort of suspect that most people simply have a strong psychological need to separate their leisure from their work, and it's primarily for that reason that they prefer a completely different device with a different UI.

  43. We all know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Trump leaked this to get revenge on those fucks eavesdropping on him. MAGA!!

  44. There is no going back now. by ArylAkamov · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's more sinister than that.

    Consider a one year old child today who may grow up to be a politician, high-level businessman, civil servant, inventor, etc.

    That child is going to grow up with his communications logged, messages recorded, phone conversations intercepted, and what's more all his porn interests, mistakes in teenage years, drug taking, cheating, law breaking, foolish racist or bigoted or cruel utterances, web searches, fucking everything.

    Then when they're making something of themselves they get a knock at the door and someone comes in with a big file.

    The end consequence of this project means that the intelligence agencies will become our permanent rulers. Not even democracy can overturn them because democracy's players, our politicians, have and do make mistakes, mistakes which are captured by the agencies. And any revolution would be thwarted before it even began.

    1. Re:There is no going back now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you make me sad.

    2. Re:There is no going back now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So I guess we better teach our kids to be the most secretive heinous fuckers ever so they might have a chance at a government job.

    3. Re:There is no going back now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The end consequence of this project means that the intelligence agencies will become our permanent rulers. Not even democracy can overturn them because democracy's players, our politicians, have and do make mistakes, mistakes which are captured by the agencies. And any revolution would be thwarted before it even began.

      That's not how it happened in the former East Germany, which was never a democracy by the way. The Ministry for State Security (STASI) was all pervasive and very powerful, but eventually they grew too large and exerted too much control over too many people. The people became upset and started organizing large strikes and protests on the theory that the STASI couldn't arrest and jail all of them simultaneously. Eventually, the crowds become so large and rowdy that the STASI men were left with two choices. They could either machine gun the crowds, and they didn't have enough bullets to kill all of them anyway, or they could give up. Of course, they gave up and the government collapsed almost overnight. It happened before, it can happen again.

    4. Re:There is no going back now. by ArylAkamov · · Score: 1

      Here's hoping that it does.

    5. Re:There is no going back now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ironically, the refutation of this is Trump, because he says fuck you to the media, and ignores bad news stories about him. Blackmail and coercion under these conditions is difficult unless he's committed a serious crime which I doubt.

      I think Trump is a bad person, but good for democracy.

    6. Re:There is no going back now. by abies · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm not from Germany, so I don't know all that first hand, but was really STASI control a major factor in uprisings? I was under impression it was mostly about ruling party, possibility of rigged elections, economic reasons, split of Germany and following a chance given by USSR turmoil/opening at the time. I have no doubts that hate of STASI was some factor in why people hated the system/government, but you have phrased your story so it looks like people of East Germany made a revolution again STASI itself rather than against communist state.
      Coming back to case of USA and CIA - I can see some kind of revolution happening there because people getting angry about corporation lobbying/control, taxes, elections, some unneeded war etc. Do you really think that people would go out to the streets and try to topple the government because CIA would get too powerful? Wasn't CIA quite powerful in 50ties and nobody really complained?

    7. Re:There is no going back now. by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 1

      Your scenario only really works if just that one kid is under surveillance. If it's being done to everyone and everyone knows it, then the threat of all those personal secrets becoming public loses a lot of its power. I would imagine that people would just self-censor when communicating electronically like a lot of people already do today.

    8. Re:There is no going back now. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Not quite. Some people will have more potentially damaging secrets than others. Alternately, #THEY might release such information only against the people $THEY don't like.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    9. Re:There is no going back now. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      That child is going to grow up with his communications logged, messages recorded, phone conversations intercepted, and what's more all his porn interests, mistakes in teenage years, drug taking, cheating, law breaking, foolish racist or bigoted or cruel utterances, web searches, fucking everything.

      Then when they're making something of themselves they get a knock at the door and someone comes in with a big file.

      And this is why, in 1939 when Robert Heinlein wrote Revolt in 2100, he predicted that when the US government falls, it will fall into a religious dictatorship, the most oppressive theocracy the world has ever seen. There was no such thing as an integrated circuit at the time, no such thing as a world wide web, but the Puritanism latent in American society has been a dangerous undercurrent since before the founding of the nation.

      There are people who have never looked at porn, never groped a girl in high school, never drink alcohol, let alone try other drugs, never cheated on a test or a boyfriend or a spouse, never so much as speed in their car or download a song without paying for it. With very few exceptions, they're the most self-righteous little prigs you could ever hope never to meet. But in a culture like the US, with that streak of lip service to Puritanism, they're unassailable. If we ever accumulate a critical mass of them, the US as we knew it would be doomed, lost even to memory because it would all get dumped down the memory hole, since freedom is obviously too dangerous to even remember, let alone possess.

      There is a light at the end of the tunnel though. Americans are voting Republicans in everywhere, while simultaneously voting down nearly every Republican social initiative. Everything from anti-abortion measures being voted down, even in deeply red states, to minimum wage hikes being approved, again in deeply red states, to drug legalization and gay rights. Somehow or other, voters relate better to Republican candidates, while disliking everything they allegedly stand for. The massive gap in approval ratings for Obamacare vs the A.C.A. is further evidence of this bizarre disconnect. So maybe we'll avoid the theocracy. Maybe.

  45. Self-Driving Cars = Assassination Booths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Buying a "smart" car? Nope.

  46. Working Torrent by dave562 · · Score: 1

    Has anyone been able to download the torrent? I tried and it hasn't been working.

  47. Outrage I tell ya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A spy agency has tools they use to spy on people?
    Make you wonder if they also have guns and drones

  48. Russian Intelligence leaks CIA files by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    wikileaks is run by Russian intelligence.

    As for the supposed leaks.. none of it seems remotely damaging. It's just a distraction from Trump's insanity and his ties to Russia.

  49. that settles it by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

    our spy masters are evil, pure evil, and there's no way we can know who they turn they evilness to. US, 'them', or combo of both.

    I wish all the spy agencies were disbanded. no one should have this kind of power, no one! prisoner experiment (stanford) demonstrates that no human should have that kind of unchecked power.

    who watches the watchers?

    NO ONE.

    or, no one we can trust.

    man, this is sick shit. a US agency that spends its time trying to create malware and thrust it upon - ALL OF US.

    now, even this NEWS cannot be trusted. nothing can be trusted, I guess is the take-away from all this.

    vendors: how much 'ball' are THEY playing, btw? I can't believe the 3 letter agencies do all this entirely on their own. they have moles in each of the key companies. and that makes things even worse, in fact.

    --

    --
    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  50. But terrible reporting as usual... by thesupraman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What is it with the quality of reporting now?

    No, this does NOT make signal, etc completely insecure - this means they need to specifically target one end of the conversation, before
    it happens - why is always likely to be possible.

    What is DOES NOT mean is that they can auto-vacuum up all the conversations for later 'analysis', as they can do with just about every
    other form of internet base communication. THAT is a critical difference. What it means is when you get on the wrong side of an ever
    expanding range of government bureaucrats, they can trawl through less of your life to look for a suitable 'punishment'.

    Of course they would LOVE everyone to think encrypted communication is useless, because they more people wouldn't bother......

    Bears a close resemblance to a false flag reporters.....

    And no, I dont need to post that AC, because being sensible about your personal communications is sensible, not illegal.

    1. Re:But terrible reporting as usual... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you're saying is that encryption is necessary but not sufficient. True.

  51. Person of Interest/Releasing Atom bomb plans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not sure how many watched, but maybe we are living in a Person of Interest (TV show) world after all. That show basically assumed that the government could do pretty much all that has been outlined so far.

    My flip phone that is off except when I need to use it, seems like a good idea after all.

    Now the cyber arms race really begins. The other countries of the world now have access to this, and can use this to infiltrate the US government or companies easier. What if this actually allows nukes somewhere to be hacked, or really take down a countries systems. The world is a much more dangerous place right now. This seems like the equivalent of releasing the plans to the atom bomb in 1945 while the war was till on. The bad hackers will be using this as soon as possible to break in and still money/information. Companies will be scrambling to learn fix software. What about all the older software running devices that likely won't be patched? We thought there were holes there, but it may now be far worse than previously thought.

    And apparently there will be more released.

    1. Re:Person of Interest/Releasing Atom bomb plans by skids · · Score: 1

      My flip phone that is off except when I need to use it, seems like a good idea after all.

      Just the fact that it won't hang up a call on you when your beard hits the screen made that a good idea.

  52. Why no dumps of fancy bear cybertools? by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

    It makes me wonder why the recent revelations have been about US cyber espionage efforts. Nothing about Uncle Vlad's hacker groups, fancy bear / cozy bear / funny hair bear / gay bear boys in flaming bondage bear, although that last one may have been a group I heard at SxSW. In any case, maybe the US isn't so hot at vetting it's people, or Kislyak knows how to turn people. Maybe the US can't get the goods on other cyber espionage groups. Or maybe they have and they ain't sayin nothin.

    --
    The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
  53. There's even more evidence that you're a pedophile by Brannon · · Score: 2

    Do you see now why truth matters?

  54. Ok, let's go at this piece by piece... by XSportSeeker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1) The CIA has the ability to break into Android and iPhone handsets, and all kinds of computers.
    It's basically, if it's Internet connected, it's probably vulnerable to some degree. But I wanna see the CIA remotely invading my unconnected Windows 7 PC used for maintenance purposes. Unless they get a warrant and physically get to my computer, they can't.

    2) Doing so would make apps like Signal, Telegram and WhatsApp entirely insecure.
    Wrong. Encryption is used on these device to protect messages DURING transit and it's not only from the CIA or for criminal purposes. So yeah, it's still secure if you are not being actively targeted by the CIA, and if you keep your devices outside the reach of malicious actors.

    3) The CIA could use smart TVs to listen in on conversations that happened around them.
    This just adds up to not buying smart TVs at all, or at least don't connect them to the Internet. Several big brands like Samsung, LG, Vizio among others have been caught red handed harvesting information using smart TV functions for all sorts of purposes, so this recommendation came before the CIA papers leak.
    It might not have shown up in papers just yet, but this also applies to your IoT devices and whatnot. Do NOT get a Google Home, Alexa or whatever always listening device you can avoid it. Your privacy will be put at risk as potentially your security also will.

    4) The agency explored hacking into cars and crashing them, allowing "nearly undetectable assassinations."
    Hackers are also into this, and it'll remain an issue as long as car manufacturers continue to ignore major security flaws in their systems. Just so people know, most cars these days are wholly insecure. Hacking could come with something hard to accomplish like connecting a device into the electronic diagnostic systems on you car, needing physical access, to shoving malware on your Android based car system and taking control remotely from there. Unfortunately, it's one of those cases where a fatality will need to happen for car manufacturers to be blasted for malpractice and change their ways.

    5) The CIA hid vulnerabilities that could be used by hackers from other countries or governments.
    This, along with several other cases like the iPhone thing and the more recent of a pedophile being released because a government agency didn't want to release the tools used for his arrest to the public just shows how governmental agencies are not focused on security and worries on the public, they are focused on power. This is the core issue with NSA, CIA, FBI and other public agencies promoting erosion or privacy: they want the power to spy on everyone and anyone, which gives them control to do anything.

    All of the revelations and the spying programs governmental agencies have reveals one big problem in itself: the US will soon become a country where something like Watergate, or something more recent like the Snowden leaks, could never happen. How long do people think that an empowered state that is able to spy on everyone including journalists (which btw, the current government sees as "the enemy") will use these tools to actively persecute, blackmail and shut up anyone who has something negative to say about the administration? You are basically diving into a well disguised totalitarian regime. And with morons currently running the country it's going to be very hard to convince them that these powers have nothing to do with making police work easier, or going after terrorists, and all to do with these agencies having enough power to do just about everything they want.

    There already have been plenty of reports on police mishandling public cameras and using tools for stuff like stalking people, going after ex-girlfriends and stuff like that. Going from there to actively blackmailing people, using the information collected for their own profit, all the way into covering scandals and shutting off corruption case investigations is not a joke. Yes, no one is interested in your boring life and your boring messages or e-mails, but there is a reason why privacy is the cornerstone of democracies. If you don't fight for it and lose, the consequences will come crashing down soon enough, and then there's nothing you can do anymore.

    1. Re:Ok, let's go at this piece by piece... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless they get a warrant and physically get to my computer, they can't.

      As long as you never connect it to sneaker net, a.k.a. plug in a compromised USB device.

      So yeah, it's still secure if you are not being actively targeted by the CIA, and if you keep your devices outside the reach of malicious actors.

      Ah the good old "nothing to hide", the issue is that the backdoors are available to everyone with the resources to look. You cannot trust anything encrypted with a smartphone as endpoint, it only takes one zero day to compromise the phone for the rest of its lifetime. Still use a separate tan generator for online banking just for that reason.

      or at least don't connect them to the Internet

      That kills a lot of functionality not related to the smart tv part, mostly streaming services like amazon prime, netflix, hulu, etc. . Not buying a smart tv in the first place or physically disconnecting the mic are the only good choices.

      Hackers are also into this, and it'll remain an issue as long as car manufacturers continue to ignore major security flaws in their systems.

      So for the next 30 years? Cars build today wont just disappear over night and internal security is practically non existant right now. We are not talking about a cheap disposable IPhone with a two to four year lifetime before everyone migrates to the next version.

       

      Hacking could come with something hard to accomplish like connecting a device into the electronic diagnostic systems on you car, needing physical access, to shoving malware on your Android based car system and taking control remotely from there.

      Sadly they have been working to get rid of just that. They want a single network to update firmware, read diagnostics, control the car in test setups and integrate with their IPhone app. Also wouldn't be surprised if lawmakers decided they need a remote kill switch for cars in the near future.

    2. Re:Ok, let's go at this piece by piece... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2) Doing so would make apps like Signal, Telegram and WhatsApp entirely insecure.
      Wrong. Encryption is used on these device to protect messages DURING transit and it's not only from the CIA or for criminal purposes. So yeah, it's still secure if you are not being actively targeted by the CIA,

      These methods are not magic. The takeaway lesson is that these are machines, they do what they do, spooks do what they do, we do what we do.

    3. Re:Ok, let's go at this piece by piece... by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 1

      But I wanna see the CIA remotely invading my unconnected Windows 7 PC used for maintenance purposes. Unless they get a warrant and physically get to my computer, they can't.

      They don't need a warrant to physically access your computer. Yes, it's done illegally, so what? Hard drives can be infected with malware on their embedded logic controllers before you install it in your computer.

      Encryption is used on these device to protect messages DURING transit and it's not only from the CIA or for criminal purposes. So yeah, it's still secure if you are not being actively targeted by the CIA, and if you keep your devices outside the reach of malicious actors.

      How exactly does one know when they are being actively targeted?

  55. Flood? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Internet itself is a flood of useless shitposting. You don't need to do anything to make ordinary intelligence efforts over complete data retention largely worthless.

    The only exception is if you're planning on being important enough to blackmail.

    Are you? Are you really? No, you're not. You're sitting here on Slashdot. You aren't important enough to Harry Potter into a tractor trailer.

    1. Re: Flood? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 0

      I think it is precious that you don't think any "important" people have Slashdot accounts. It's quite endearing :-)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  56. Grow up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not you, personally.

    But it's easily thwarted. Little Johnny the Candidate for Senator likes to dress up as a squirrel and fuck dudes on the weekends? Who the fuck cares.

    Little Suzie for Sheriff dropped some E and hugged the shit out of everybody? Who the fuck cares.

    Spoopy spooks would be rendered powerless if we all grew the fuck up.

    But we won't, and we'll still end up with the government we deserve.

    1. Re:Grow up. by nightfire-unique · · Score: 1

      Your comment makes me sadder than the OPs, because truth. :(

      --
      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
  57. The free state is organizing against this threat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every time this thing happens you should be thinking how you can stop it. The lazy in us tends to get the best of most. But for the few who really are concerned about these issues you need to start working on migrating to be with others who think like you do and are working on fighting this. The Free State Project is based on the idea that with enough people moving to a small state you only need a minority of active liberty-minded participants to overwhelm the draconian statists. The reality is we're making progress in New Hampshire and have only gotten about 10% thus far of the participants here who've signed up to move within 5 years to move. Fortunately 10s of thousands are in the progress of migrating and we're seeing new people every day.

    Do you know whose behind EOMA68? It's ThinkPenguin. Where is ThinkPenguin? New Hampshire. What is EOMA68? EOMA68 is a modular computing standard aimed at reducing the cost of developing 100% free software user controlled devices. While in and of itself that isn't enough to fight big brother- but we can't do it when we aren't in control of our devices and this is the start of a technical solution. At the same time we need a political solution to curtail and revert laws curtailing our civil liberties. And for that there are lots of people here working at the state level to do that. We have successfully made progress. New Hampshire no longer requires a permit to conceal carry and didn't require it for open carry. New Hampshire doesn't require car insurance (still a driver has liability- but its up to them to make good on an injury/accident), doesn't require wearing of seat belts, doesn't have a general purpose sales tax, has low property taxes relative to many more Orwellian states (ie MA, NJ, NY, CA, etc). We've been one of the few hold outs on Secure Driver's Licenses. Has the greatest uptake in Bitcoin adoption (especially at the local level- ie local stores taking it, Keene, NH outnumbers San Francisco per captia, etc), we're fighting drivers licenses / vehicular registration, we won against state harassment and arrest of activists actively going out and routinely video recording police/government officials, among many other things. We are winning the fight to stop and even undo crypto currency regulation (and possibly even more than that- certain financial regulations).

  58. Im calling bullshit on this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Im not denying the CIA wants to do all these 6 points, and perhaps it has limited abilities to do so, but their true abilities are nothing like what the text appears to claim - its a complete exaggeration to "scare" people into thinking they are being watched.

    If any of these 6 were true, how did 9/11 happen ? The pilots must have discussed their plans etc in front of a tv and so on. I guess this coul dbe explained with they dont have enough computing resources to monitor everything, but if thats true then the rest is bullshit and irrelevant..no point having cmaeras if no one is watching...

    1. Re:Im calling bullshit on this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Smart TVs did not exist in 2001 you fucking moron.

  59. FreeBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any malware on FreeBSD?

  60. Industrial Theft & Uncloaked a source already. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    year0/vault7/cms/page_13205694.html

    User #1179751 is the author.

    In the photos for creating git repos and workflow, one of the source code screens was not redacted, and in the editor it says "My name is Keith, and I created this exercise".

    Then later on they redact the same user ID when it's mentioned new people must add him to pull requests.....

    Industrial Theft was then discovered on this page.... year0/vault7/cms/page_2621828.html

    "In the course of analyzing a commercial program for a requirement, Umbrage discovered that this commercial program utilized this technique in their licensing checks to prevent a debugger from starting the program, or attaching to a running instance of the program. The following example is a rough implementation of the strategy used:

    This technique was first discovered by Umbrage while analyzing a commercial tool called FineReader."

    I think I'll email FineReader and let them know so they can file suit.

    This is quite fun.

  61. People still use "smart" TV's? by Trogre · · Score: 1

    If you have your TV connected to the Internet in 2017 with any expectation of privacy you have the intelligence of a tuna casserole.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    1. Re:People still use "smart" TV's? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My smart TV has no Mic or camera, it is connected to the internet on its own VLAN separate to the rest of my computers (don't trust what I can't fully control and have watched first hand how bad the security is on current IoT and other devices, some in the OSS community should be ashamed of the state of many of those projects). IF they want to hack it and look at what I stream they are welcome to it. Hell even if it had a Mic I would not care as it isn't like I discuss anything of interest in the lounge room, if I am in their I am watching news or a movie or playing a video game.

  62. Flawed tactic? by Coisiche · · Score: 2

    5) The CIA hid vulnerabilities that could be used by hackers from other countries or governments. Such bugs were found in the biggest consumer electronics in the world, including phones and computers made Apple, Google and Microsoft. But those companies didn't get the chance to fix those exploits because the agency kept them secret in order to keep using them, the documents suggest.

    Does that not display a high degree of hubris? I'd say that if a government agency discovers a security flaw in something then they have to immediately assume that "hackers from other countries or governments" either already have it or will independently discover it soon. I really don't think it's something for which you have a big window of exclusive use.

  63. So they're saying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Intelligence agency engages in intelligence gathering and often exploits technology to do it. That's an outrage!

    I demand only intel gathering through paying people off and having them secretly record stuff or steal documents, the old fashioned way!

  64. Re:Fuck the USA by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 0

    Fuck you and your prison culture. You're stupid racist fucks.

    Oh look, a European. The student quarter you used to have good times in is now a refugee no-go zone. Enjoy.

  65. Some Slashdot comments are paid for. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The reason why Slashdot comments go to crap in political posts is that there are "trolls" paid by the US government to spread fear, uncertainty, doubt, overwhelming noise and disinformation, in an attempt to violate the democratic right to be informed, and any exposure of this will itself be subject to FUD, overwhelming noise and disinformation.

    Unrestricted speech on the Internet was a political threat; that threat is now being actively managed on all communication channels, be it social media like Slashdot, IRC, Twitch, Playstation Network, ...

  66. The source of Tyranny by MrKaos · · Score: 2

    It's found in the court of public opinion. That's why we have courts that are abstracted from populist views and are compelled to examine the evidence in a case tried by peers. The court of public opinion has been responsible for many massacres.

    Rule of law is western society's greatest achievement.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  67. Re:Fuck the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    GP's bigotry is a moral counterweight to the US's moral abuses, and so is perfectly justified.

    I'm sure the language isn't exactly right, but I imagine that's how the current crop of snowflakes sees things.

  68. Re:Fuck the USA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    because it's full of dune-coons like you.

  69. Workstations with no mic or camera by sandbagger · · Score: 1

    Are still a good idea it seems.

    Devices with mics and cameras will soon be revealed to have tacit recording modes, including laptops with trickle transmission of content to hide the uploads in cahoots with major ISPs.

    --
    ---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
    1. Re:Workstations with no mic or camera by wyHunter · · Score: 1

      As they already did - witness in 2013 the electric kettles with microphones and wifi chips that were attempted to be imported into Russia from China: http://thehackernews.com/2013/...

  70. Iron Sky falling on the steering wheel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > The agency explored hacking into cars and crashing them, allowing "nearly undetectable assassinations." Many of the documents reference tools that appear to have dangerous and unknown uses. One file, for instance, shows that the CIA was looking into ways of remotely controlling cars and vans by hacking into them.

    Ad. 1.: Sales of Volvo car suddenly tripled after this news hit. China is like 8-) and Sweden think they were stupid to sell the brand.

    Ad 2.: As long as the steering wheel is mechnically, servo-hydraulically or servo-electrically connected, there is no risk. In fact, law mandates the steering wheel must still work even if the servo mech fails, but the torque ("bread servo") required to turn it may be beyond the normal power of very petite females from 3500+ kilogram vehicles. On the other hand, by law hand-brake is mandated to be strong enough that it will hold the car and stall the engine even at top RPM.

    Thus CIA's program may be more about future cars than existing ones? Furthermore, since USA is the most auto-mobilized country in the world, such a research would hurt "home soil of the brave" most, in case it was leaked.

    (In Europe, Italy is the most carred country, but their people dislike driving long distances and there is a big railway network, including extensive HSR. In Japan there are godzillion cars, but most are tiny "keicar" ones and speed limits are quite pedestrian at just 50 to 100 km per hour. Furthermore, their people take the bullet train or planes for longer distances.

    The CIA project may have most potential against Germany, where there are long unrestricted-speed stretches of Autobahn, with 200km/h being common. Note that german prestiege car makers, like BMW, Merc, Audi regulate top speed to max. 250km/h using FADEC software for the ICE bloc.

    On the other hand, if germans realize USA / IL wishes them ill and put their famed engineering skills to work on an antidote, don't be suprised if one dawn shiny red-black mercury powered Vril and Thule UFOs descend from the dark side of the Moon and start to land whole battalions of Wiking anti-gravity assult tanks, over-running NY, LA and Haifa...)

    1. Re:Iron Sky falling on the steering wheel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      " by law hand-brake is mandated to be strong enough that it will hold the car and stall the engine even at top RPM."
      Don't lots of cars have electronic handbrakes now? The signal from the handbrake switch could be overidden.

      You don't need to control the steering wheel or steering rack to crash a car. Most modern cars feature ESP (in fact, this system is now mandated in the EU). ESP allows individual wheels to be braked, thus if the wheels on one side of the vehicle were locked the car would fly off the road before the driver has time to react.

  71. Nixon is innocent then by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you saying because the DOJ that wire tapped a presidential candidate during an election refused to prosecute another presidential candidate, of their choice, even though they had evidence it is proof she did nothing wrong?

    So Nixon doing nothing to the people who broke into Watergate, and then covering it up was acceptable and PROOF that nothing wrong was done.

    Interesting theory you have. History seems to disagree with you, along with most reasonable people.

  72. Points of failure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Social constructs, such as organizations, political, business, and others, can and should be designed in a way technical systems of high availability and reliability are designed, with redundancy and embedded permanent testing, that would remove reliance on "heroic" and "leader" characters and acts, thus removing significance from any particular individual, and then character assassination attempts (or even physical removal for that matter) would be futile and inconsequential for any society-wide important purpose.

  73. Given today's politics by argStyopa · · Score: 2

    ...I think the revelation that they've appropriated other security services hacking tools so they can attack a system and leave false footprints would be a bit of a bombshell.

    --
    -Styopa
  74. Now here comes the complete mind fuck... by kaizendojo · · Score: 1

    Are these things real, or are they in themselves propaganda by either the CIA or another nation state?
    Conceivably, these could all be real revelations. But there's just as much chance that this is either propaganda by the CIA to appear to be more in control than they are, or by another competing nation state to make the CIA *look* like they are spying on their own citizens.
    The fact is that no one but they know for sure.

  75. Toyota Acceleration Issue... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now we know what caused all of those uncommanded acceleration events in Toyotas a few years ago... I wonder what CIA had to do to keep Toyota quiet once they figured it out... probably disappeared a few engineers.

  76. What about Michael Hastings??? by pastafazou · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think the biggest revelation is the fact that the CIA can, indeed, hack a car and potentially assassinate the driver: http://yournewswire.com/wikile...
    Interestingly, Michael Hastings died when his car suddenly accelerated out of control and crashed, killing him instantly. He was currently investigating the director of the CIA, John Brennan!
    Coincidence???????
    ???
    ??
    ?

  77. Largest Malware release yet !!! by ripvlan · · Score: 1

    The CIA must have been thinking "how do we infiltrate every device on the planet? This onsie-twosie thing is too slow" Oh - let's leak a bunch of stuff to Wikileaks and include in it some malware. Everyone will be so distracted by the "trove of secret data" and trying it out to see what it does that they won't notice our super-secret malware getting installed.

    Now whether they want everyone - or just the other "government entities" - or this PITA Assange himself - who knows.

    I for one won't be diving into this leak.

  78. saw a proof of concept several years ago by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    If you think about the makeup of a car the only thing that can be controlled are those with electronic controls.

    Which is just about everything these days. Some of the controls, and other devices are federally mandated - like anitlock brakes (which work by turning the bakes OFF in a controlled manner) and tire pressure sensors. Others are there because running a vehicle bus DRASTICALLY cuts the cost of wiring harnesses - like nearly every controllable or reporting device in the vehicle.

    A few years ago I saw a proof-of-concept demonstrated at a conference. The researchers had used a flaw in a popular (with auto companies) tire pressure sensor system to achieve remote radio control of the car's vehicle bus. (CAN bus, if I recall correctly.) That let them do a bunch of stuff. Among them was disable the brakes, set the cruise control to a high speed, and make it impossible to shut off the engine or open the doors.

    There are a LOT of other ways to interfere with recent vehicles' operation, and at high speed the driver doesn't have time to figure out how to work around such interference even if it's theoretically possible.

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:saw a proof of concept several years ago by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 1

      Among them was disable the brakes, set the cruise control to a high speed, and make it impossible to shut off the engine or open the doors.

      Shift into neutral and use the parking brake; turn the ignition off. Granted, some vehicles use push-button ignition, but the transmission selector and parking brake still operate mechanically on most vehicles.

  79. In Soviet Russia, TV Watches You! by number6x · · Score: 5, Funny

    Slashdot Flashback time...

    In Soviet America, TV watches you!

    1. Re:In Soviet Russia, TV Watches You! by pabloesgalhardo · · Score: 1

      In 1980 there is a radio that cant be turned off.

    2. Re:In Soviet Russia, TV Watches You! by pabloesgalhardo · · Score: 1

      1984

    3. Re:In Soviet Russia, TV Watches You! by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Slashdot Flashback time...

      In Soviet America, TV watches you!

      And, if the FBI or CIA agent attacked the wrong car, the father, mother and three kids could die from a misdirected terror attack.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  80. I'm guessing this was not an accident by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Too many big oil companies didn't want an anti-trust case exposing all kinds of secrets.

    https://news.vice.com/article/fracking-pioneer-aubrey-mcclendon-dies-in-car-crash-a-day-after-anti-trust-indictment

  81. Re:There's even more evidence that you're a pedoph by ichthus · · Score: 0

    *clears throat* "At this point, what difference does it make?!!"

    --
    sig: sauer
  82. Re: The worst leak of all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a Trump voter I still find this funny.

  83. Sally Sparrow! Beware the Weeping Angels... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are we shocked that the CIA nerds are Doctor Who fans?

  84. Re: The worst leak of all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, what was it tge liberals said: Trump had no evidence. It looks like their default setting is to spy on him. But yeah.. Its the "Russians" ...

  85. Best take heed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Assange. Wikileaks. Putin's puppets. You'd be wise to chose wisely just whose side it is you're on.

  86. Missed One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Justin Amash representative from Michigan(R) He opposed, SOPA & PIPA, and stands firmly for fourth amendment rights.

    Unfortunately, Michigan also has Mike Rogers (R). He and Nancy Pelosi California (D) would vote for tracking chips to be placed in everyone's forehead.

  87. SmartTVs by joboss · · Score: 1

    When I was hacking those I would put horrific porn on them, max out the volume and crash the control services.

    The CIA is being given too much credit here. Take it from a security expert. There's very little here that's surprising or concerning. Much of it isn't truly owned by the CIA in any meaningful way and is more just how the world works.

    The only real concern from this that wasn't pre-existing but again predictable is that details on their hacking program came out.

  88. Um... the future is now. by gosand · · Score: 1

    Not surprising, some people today are just as ignorant about computers.

    Though it scares me to think I may be ignorant about some FUTURE tech that comes out when I'm old.

    Future? I feel that way about some current tech.

    I tell you, I have been using computers since the TRS-80 model III in the mid 80s, and I still feel ignorant about computers some days.
    During one job interview I was asked about my experience on Linux. I said I have been using it as my home system since 1999, and I ran it and tested on it at a few jobs I had over the years. The interviewer said "oh, so you're an expert?" I replied "I think that the more I use it, and the more I learn about it, the more I realize how much I don't know about it. It's always evolving. I used to build my own kernel, and compile my own packages - and I still do that on occasion because I find it interesting. I can always dig in as deep as I want to go. But no, I don't think I am an expert and I never will be."

    That wasn't just an interview answer, I firmly believe that. Everything seems so much deeper today. The IT industry has grown so much. Cryptography, mobile, security, hacks, viruses/malware, gaming, containers, cloud, GPUs, etc etc. The industry has really matured in the last 25 years, which really is a short time compared to other industries, and it permeates so much. There is no doubt in my mind that I will continue to slip away from understanding it all.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    1. Re:Um... the future is now. by ls671 · · Score: 1

      Interesting post, don't worry, I only upgrade to the latest and greatest on a need to know/need to use basis and it doesn't bother me a bit.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
  89. Re:Fuck the USA by wyHunter · · Score: 1

    Indeed, Europe, the continent that gave us enlightenment, the industrial revolution, marxism, world war i, world war ii, imperialism, etc. Not exactly a group to emulate really. Now the seeds of WWIII are being sown there.

  90. LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that the main reason the government is turning into Big Brother is because...

    Because it's in the best interest of any coercive authority to have complete control over its subject class, and in modern times, that means ubiquitous surveillance. "The people" have nothing to do with it. This is the simple, inevitable nature of coercive authority.

    Secondly, please stop using the term "big brother". It implies that underneath the spying, oppression, and injustice, government is really on your side. There's only one appropriate response to that: "LOL".

  91. Controlled phones during the invasion of Iraq by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The US was able to directly connect and talk to the cell phones of the commanders of Hussein's army and convinced them to move out of the way rather than fight. That hack saved many lives (mostly Iraqi). Yes, that technology can be abused, but we often forget why we developed it in the first place.

  92. Will it come to the point where by Neuronwelder · · Score: 1

    You will have to have one clean room with nothing in it, and run it at a temperature at 98.6 Fahrenheit to hide infra-red?

  93. Did they assassinate Paul Walker???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did they assassinate Paul Walker????

  94. Re:Fuck the USA by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

    enlightenment, the industrial revolution

    I give up, what was wrong with The Enlightenment? And while The Industrial Revolution definitely messed things up in some respects, we do have the whole of modern life to thank it for.

  95. Re:Fuck the USA by wyHunter · · Score: 1

    Nothing. All I'm saying is that some really good things, like enlightenment and the industrial revolution came out of Europe - just like the inquision, marxism, WWI, WWII, and so on. I was just kind of typing 'stream of consciousness' pointing out subtly that while some good stuff came from there - the largest mass murders in history did, too.

  96. Orwell by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "so that even when they appear to be switched off, they're actually on."

    1984 confirmed.

  97. Movie Time! by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

    So, who's up for watching Will Smith and Gene Hackman in "Enemy of the State" this weekend?

    --
    There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.