Slashdot Mirror


A Rogue Robot Is Blamed For a Human Colleague's Gruesome Death (qz.com)

A new lawsuit has emerged claiming a robot is responsible for killing a human colleague, reports Quartz. It all started in July 2015, when Wanda Holbrook, "a maintenance technician performing routine duties on an assembly line" at an auto-parts maker in Ionia, Michigan, called Ventra Ionia Main, "was 'trapped by robotic machinery' and crushed to death." From the report: On March 7, her husband, William Holbrook, filed a wrongful death complaint (pdf) in Michigan federal court, naming five North American robotics companies involved in engineering and integrating the machines and parts used at the plant: Prodomax, Flex-N-Gate, FANUC, Nachi, and Lincoln Electric. Holbrook's job involved keeping robots in working order. She routinely inspected and adjusted processes on the assembly line at Ventra, which makes bumpers and trailer hitches. One day, Holbrook was performing her regular duties when a machine acted very irregularly, according to the lawsuit reported in Courthouse News. Holbrook was in the plant's six-cell "100 section" when a robot unexpectedly activated, taking her by surprise. The cells are separated by safety doors and the robot should not have been able to move. But it somehow reached Holbrook, and was intent on loading a trailer-hitch assembly part right where she stood over a similar part in another cell. The machine loaded the hardware onto Holbrook's head. She was unable to escape, and her skull was crushed. Co-workers who eventually noticed that something seemed amiss found Holbrook dead. William Holbrook seeks an unspecified amount of damages, arguing that before her gruesome death, his wife "suffered tremendous fright, shock and conscious pain and suffering." He also names three of the defendants -- FANUC, Nachi, and Lincoln Electric -- in two additional claims of product liability and breach of implied warranty. He argues that the robots, tools, controllers, and associated parts were not properly designed, manufactured or tested, and not fit for use. "The robot from section 130 should have never entered section 140, and should have never attempted to load a hitch assembly within a fixture that was already loaded with a hitch assembly. A failure of one or more of defendants' safety systems or devices had taken place, causing Wanda's death," the lawsuit alleges.

64 of 407 comments (clear)

  1. And so it begins... by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And so it begins...

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re:And so it begins... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Begins? This sounds exactly like the sort of issue from that start of the industrial revolution, where people were routinely mauled by machinery with inadequate safety standards. About 200 years too late for 'and so it begins'.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:And so it begins... by syn3rg · · Score: 2

      Someone get Elijah Baley on the case....

      --
      The contents of this message have been doubly encrypted by ROT13
    3. Re:And so it begins... by SirSlud · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think about the only possible dumb reaction to this news would be to immediately assume you know what happened.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    4. Re:And so it begins... by IvoryRing · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Unless the design of the robot requires that doing her job (adjusting processes) can only be done in the danger zone with the robots powered up - in which case it seems likely the robot manufacturers do have a portion of liability. In theory this is what a lawsuit will determine.

    5. Re:And so it begins... by grumbel · · Score: 2

      It already began back in 1979, humans getting killed by robots is nothing new.

    6. Re: And so it begins... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 3, Informative

      That was my first thought, but then I read beyond the headline. She was working on a section that was presumably locked out properly. This robot was from another section, where no lockout should have been required. Think of it as her working on a house's electrical system. Having shut down the circuit she was working on properly the house was wired wrong so that when removing power from a given circuit it is still powered due to miswiring by the electrician as she got electrocuted.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    7. Re:And so it begins... by green1 · · Score: 2

      I don't think you understand the concept of "lock out - tag out".

      If the robot has no power, it can't hurt anyone. No further "test cases" required.

      This is maintenance 101, you never work on any dangerous system without first personally turning off every power supply to it, and putting a padlock on the switch that only you have the key to, along with a tag with your name and contact information in case anyone has questions.

      The question here isn't about what test cases the robot passed, the question is about what safety precautions did the worker take to ensure that no matter what the robot did they wouldn't be harmed.

      Now as to fault, there are 2 possibilities here. A worker who didn't follow all proper safety procedures, or a company who failed to properly train the worker on those safety procedures. But in no case is the robot, nor it's creators, responsible.

    8. Re:And so it begins... by sycodon · · Score: 2, Informative

      When an airplane flies into a mountain, it's a pretty good bet that it's pilot error.

      When a robot crushes someone, it's a pretty good bet that someone didn't deactivate the robot before working on it.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    9. Re:And so it begins... by sycodon · · Score: 2

      You apparently have no clue what Lock Out means.

      It is the process whereby you render a device completely inoperative and additionally, prevent it from being unintentionally reactivated. In almost all industries, it is an inherent part of the operation of the device. It is as ubiquitous as are seat belts. If you buy a dangerous machine, it most likely comes with instructions for locking it out, along with (literally) locks, flags, tags, etc. Hell, we just got a large air compressor at our plant and yes, it has Lockout instructions and tags.

      According to OSHA 78% of accidental deaths in the workplace occur because the equipment was not deactivated or was activated by another employee after it had previously been deactivated.

      The idea that industrial robots don't come with instructions for Locking Out is preposterous.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    10. Re:And so it begins... by MikeMo · · Score: 2

      Ah, yes, the wonderful age of civil discourse...

    11. Re: And so it begins... by sycodon · · Score: 2

      So THAT is the fault of the electrician/company. not the Robot manufacturer.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    12. Re:And so it begins... by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      I don't think you understand the concept of "lock out - tag out".

      It seems that she was working on the robot in location 130, and that robot was absolutely safely shut down - and it didn't occur to anyone that the robot in location 140 could reach far enough to kill someone in location 130.

      They were most likely properly trained, and handled the danger that they were aware of correctly. Unfortunately, they didn't see the other danger.

    13. Re:And so it begins... by Coisiche · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I did read it and this bit puzzles me

      a robot unexpectedly activated, taking her by surprise

      because I can't find the bit about her relaying that information to co-workers because they "eventually noticed that something seemed amiss found Holbrook dead". So how did she say that the robot unexpectedly activated and took her by surprise? It may well be a valid assumption but without any witnesses it cannot be stated with certainty.

    14. Re: And so it begins... by ChrisMaple · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Bad analogy. Never trust the labeling of a breaker. Always check that the circuit is not live.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    15. Re:And so it begins... by green1 · · Score: 2

      Then they weren't properly trained, or they didn't follow that training.

      Safety isn't about what "should" happen under ideal situations, it's about what "can" happen under worst case situations.

      If the robot in location 140 never goes in to location 130, then it shouldn't be capable of doing so. If it does sometimes go in to location 130, but wasn't expected to at this time, it should have been physically blocked from doing so, or shut down as well.

      This is safety 101 here, it's not complicated.

    16. Re:And so it begins... by kingramon0 · · Score: 2

      It sounds to me like she didn't lock it out because she wasn't working on that robot. She was working in an adjoining cell where she should have been protected by safety doors.

    17. Re:And so it begins... by kingramon0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      One might infer that it took her by surprise because she failed to get out of the way before it crushed her.

    18. Re:And so it begins... by Stickybombs · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you are working inside a machine or cabinet, then yes, you'd power it down. Doing routine programming and maintenance in a robotic cell is different though. The robots typically have to be powered up in order to teach or operate them. So when you enter a live cell, you have a lockout mechanism on the safety gate. A properly locked out cell will not let the robots or other equipment in the cell operate in automatic mode, but they are still able to function manually when you allow them to. In this case, either she screwed up and failed to lock out, or someone else screwed up and let a robot in a different zone enter her locked out zone without a safety check.

    19. Re:And so it begins... by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      How does a robot activate without an electrical power source? Oh, you mean someone forgot to disconnect the electrical power source before working on the robot? Carry on.

    20. Re:And so it begins... by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Funny

      When an airplane flies into a mountain, it's a pretty good bet that it's pilot error.

      Thanks for providing us with a detailed example of your root cause analysis abilities. I will be sure to disregard everything you say as baseless rubbish from this point forward.

      Regards
      The people who actually know the many ways things can fail.

    21. Re:And so it begins... by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      We are still in an age for civil discourse, just not using a forum where it is commonly practised. Seriously, read at -1 at some point. If it weren't for the moderation system doing it's job you'd see that Slashdot is a cesspool of shit that makes 4chan look good.

    22. Re:And so it begins... by orgelspieler · · Score: 2

      Except the complaint says that the robot that killed her was from a different section of the line. I know that if it were me, I'd turn off everything that could even theoretically kill me, but robotics technicians are accustomed to making certain assumptions about range of motion and how the light curtains or safety doors work. The way LOTO is supposed to work: 1) tell people in the area you're about to LOTO, 2) disconnect *all* energy sources and bleed stored energy, 3) install lock(s), 4) attempt to make $POTENTIAL_THING_THAT_CAN_KILL_ME move or function in any way, 5) proceed with your maintenance task. The key here is that it's not always 100% obvious what #4 includes. For instance if a robot is ten feet away, you may not realize that it has a 12-foot reach, and some idiot programmed it to ignore the light curtain in your area. If that's the case, the groundwork for her demise was laid before the robots were ever installed in the plant. I think that is the gist of the lawsuit.

    23. Re: And so it begins... by orgelspieler · · Score: 2

      Even with proper verification, you can still get killed. To take the analogy a step further, there have been linemen killed when (after they check with their hotsticks) some idiot customer a mile away kicks on his emergency generator without disconnecting his 52. It doesn't happen a lot, but when it does happen, people die.

    24. Re:And so it begins... by Nkwe · · Score: 4, Informative

      Someone didn't follow Lock Out Procedures or those procedures were inadequate.

      The only possible liability lies with her, or the company, not the robot manufacturers.

      For those who don't know what "Lock Out Procedures" means... It is safety protocol that has been used in industry for at least decades in which a person who is going to work near dangerous machinery turns off the power to the system and physically puts a padlock on the switch so that it can not be turned back on. Protocol is that there is only one key to the padlock and the person who placed the padlock carries the key with them. This way the person is responsible for their own safety. If 15 people are working on the equipment there are 15 padlocks hanging off the switch (there are special devices that allow a whole gob of padlocks to placed on a switch.) Lockout can be mechanical in addition to electrical, but the concept is that when something is locked it, it is not physically possible for it to operate. It important to note that control systems are not locked out, actual power sources are, this way even a computer or control system failure can not cause a dangerous condition when something is "locked out".

    25. Re: And so it begins... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

      Ok. You just aren't grasping this simple fact. It wasn't the machine (let's stop calling it a fucking robot) she was working on that killed her. That was properly LO'ed ... It was a DIFFERENT machine completely. It WASN'T the machine she was working on that killed her. Get it now?

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    26. Re:And so it begins... by green1 · · Score: 2

      Experienced people are actually the most likely to miss important safety steps. They get complacent and think they know better. After all, they've never had a problem yet...

    27. Re: And so it begins... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

      Ok. I'm going to give you a completely plausible scenario that shows another option. The machine (a.k.a. Robot) is networked. Due to a bug, when they shut off number 103, number 104 becomes number 103 in the linked list, It's a race condition. Machine 104 promptly decides to finish what's in section 103 because another thread changed the pointer, thus causing #104 to jump from section 104 to 103 and kill someone. It is a race condition, see?

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    28. Re: And so it begins... by ragnarok · · Score: 2

      That's exactly what Lock Out Tagout is for, to remove energy from the device and ensure it cannot operate. If a device can not be safely locked out it would never be allowed in an American facility.

      --
      Search first, ask questions later.
  2. Yep, there's your problem. by sizzzzlerz · · Score: 3, Funny

    You had the switch on "kill" rather than "assemble".

    1. Re:Yep, there's your problem. by omnichad · · Score: 4, Funny

      This is what you get when you demand kill switches for robots.

  3. Before you crack stupid jokes please read this: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
  4. Re:Unplug it first by AwooOOoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, but this was from an adjacent work station. Equivalent to unplugging your circular saw in the garage, only to be attacked by the refrigerator in the next room.

  5. Industrial accident by kav2k · · Score: 4, Informative

    A failure of one or more of defendants’ safety systems or devices had taken place, causing Wanda’s death.

    That's it. That's all this lawsuit is about, faulty failsafes on industrial equipment that lead to an accident. Probably with merit.

    But sure, call it "rogue robots" and "killing"...

    1. Re:Industrial accident by ScentCone · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yup. "By a robot" will be the new "with a computer."

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    2. Re:Industrial accident by Baron_Yam · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My experience with industrial accidents is that it's almost certainly human error. I've seen someone deliberately disable the safety systems because they were inconvenient, then get mutilated doing something stupid the safeties would have prevented them from doing.

      Personally, I've operated machinery on manual override when it should have been on automatic, the machine blaring warnings at me the whole time which just didn't register because I heard them so often at work. Luckily, the passive safety systems (the big steel protective cage I was in) kept me from harm.

      With robots, failures are more likely to stop the system than to start it up. To accidentally start something when it shouldn't be started usually takes human interference.

    3. Re:Industrial accident by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Looks like the factory has both a history of accidents (2 previous deaths) and owner/name changes. That could indicate a culture of disregard for safety. At the same time, however, if the robots routinely move from section to section in the normal course of operation and (one would assume) the whole line is probably shut down while she is working on the one section, then it seems to me that ti wasn't properly locked out. If you have to stop an assembly line to work on one part of it, you should probably be locking out every portion of that line.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    4. Re: Industrial accident by cloudmaster · · Score: 2

      If only it had been connected to the Internet...

    5. Re:Industrial accident by monkeyxpress · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The other thing to note is that a good solution to the robot safety problem is to simply add more automation. Mixing humans and automation requires huge effort and cost at the interface. Even if it costs a lot more than the marginal cost of labour to eliminate the last pieces of manual work on a production line, the potential savings across the wider system could make it worth doing. This is likely to mean that even those prepared to work well below minimum wage will not be able to get jobs that can be automated. In effect, the externalised costs of labour will at some point exceed the cost of automation, reducing the demand for labour to zero at a price well above zero wages.

      Of course one solution to this would be to abolish health and safety laws, which I imagine will be the next step. As Milton Friedman said, the biggest discriminator against the low paid is pesky things such as minimum wages law that prevent workers offering their labour at a price that clears the market. I'm sure there is an equilibrium point for the number of worker mutilations per hour that ensure full employment - we just have to let the market find it!

    6. Re:Industrial accident by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Looks like the factory has both a history of accidents (2 previous deaths) and owner/name changes. That could indicate a culture of disregard for safety.

      Perhaps even welcome. From The President Changed. So Has Small Businesses’ Confidence

      The owner of an automotive parts assembler gave thanks that he would not be receiving visits from pesky environmental and workplace overseers.

      The president of a trucking company spoke of a “tremendous dark cloud” lifting when he realized he would no longer be feeling the burden of rules and regulations imposed by the Obama administration.

      “My gut just feels better,” said Bob Fleisher, president of a local car dealership. “With Obama, you felt it was personal — like he just didn’t want you to make money. Now we have a guy who is cutting regulations and taxes.

      Thankfully, those pesky environmental and safety rules and regulations protecting people and getting in the way of profits over disposable employees will be going away...

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    7. Re: Industrial accident by Rei · · Score: 2

      I wrote where I am. Hint..

      That said, lox has the same root word. It was even the English word through Old English (læx) until "salmon" (a word from Latin (salmonem) of unknown origin) took over. That actually happened with a lot of "food-related" terms, with Latin-origin terms (via French) replacing Germanic/Norse-origin terms - but usually the animal itself kept the Germanic/Norse. For example, you have cow (proto-germanic *kwon, Norse kýr/kú) but the food is beef (Latin bovem); swine (proto-Germanic swinan, Norse svín) and pig (unknown origin), but the food is pork (Latin porcus); lamb (proto-Germanic lambaz, Norse lamb), ewe (proto-Germanic *awi, Norse ær), sheep (West Germanic *skæpan), but the food is mutton (Latin multonem); etc. I guess food has always sounded fancier if you write it in French ;)

      --
      Stale pastry is hollow succor to one who is bereft of ostrich.
    8. Re: Industrial accident by painandgreed · · Score: 2

      If only it had been connected to the Internet...

      Then it would be an AI.

    9. Re:Industrial accident by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My experience with industrial accidents is that it's almost certainly human error.

      My experience with human error is that the only way to avoid future human error is to find the underlying cause which permitted that error.

      I've seen someone deliberately disable the safety systems because they were inconvenient, then get mutilated doing something stupid the safeties would have prevented them from doing.

      Sheer stupidity exists. The only way to eliminate it is by removing the stupid people. I remember a palatising machine at a biscuit factory where one employee asked the other to lock him into the cage and start the machine because of a faulty sensor was misplacing every 8th box. When a manager walked in, he hit the e-stop. Shortly after security walked in and escorted both the person in the cage and the person who locked him in the cage off site.

      When they said "no one told me" they were made a huge example, and management made sure that everyone at the plant knew the story of the two idiots who got themselves instantly fired.

      It is one area that is really difficult to manage.

    10. Re:Industrial accident by orgelspieler · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think calling it a "war" is disingenuous. Name a single regulation that was not based on a real public need. The only one I can think of was the whole anti-pipeline thing (KXL and Dakota Access), which was just straight-up ignorant. I wouldn't call that a war on businesses, though. In fact, my company made money off of TransCanada due to that debacle.

      Compare that to what we have now, though. The president can cause stock prices to drop 5% or more with a single vindictive, vapid tweet. Obama's administration could lay out a damning white paper with detailed explanations of why mining tailings were bad for drinking water supplies, and nobody gave a shit because they knew the Republicans in congress would never actually do anything about it. God forbid we have an EPA or OSHA that actually, you know, defends we the people.

      I'm pretty pro-Tenth, but honestly how are you going to handle river pollution at the state level? Is Louisiana really going to tell Texas to keep their cadmium on their half of the Sabine? Air pollution: can Arizona tell California to get its cars off the road when the wind is blowing? What about global warming? Anything requiring an international treaty is by definition a federal issue.

      I'm tired of people claiming that all regulations are anti-business, and that all businesses just want to screw people for a buck. There's a real benefit to the American people when a smoothly functioning federal government does it's job. Also, there are real financial incentives when businesses act ethically. Unfortunately we haven't seen either in so long, most people have forgotten what it looks like.

    11. Re:Industrial accident by epine · · Score: 2

      Most environmental and safety concerns should be handled at the state level.

      And your logic is?

      Here's how my equation falls out:

      * States without coal: safety paramount.
      * States with coal: extraction paramount.

      Hence, disaggregation of oversight guarantees extraction.

      Or—wait for it!—we can draw a BIG circle around the ENTIRE externality all at once (and one for all).

      But that would actually lead to broad discussion, and horse trading, and the sound exercise of restraint, and the wrong kind of green.

      So you're right. Let's close all the windows and let the states do it.

  6. Orders by ardmhacha · · Score: 4, Funny

    The robot was just following orders.

  7. Re:Still want self driving cars? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd trust it more if it didn't have a fallible human behind the wheel.

    I trust computers not to drink, drive sleepy, fiddle with the radio, talk to the hounddog on the CB, text cousin Willy, be aware of what was happening around it for a full 360 degrees every microsecond.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
  8. Terrible by argStyopa · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's sounds absolutely terrible, but one of the primary things you learn when doing heavy machinery maintenance is lock out/tag out that renders all related machinery completely inoperable while servicing. It doesn't seem that this was done?

    To be clear, if the company maintenance policies prevented her from properly locking or what she was working on, then they certainly do have a suit.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Terrible by wagnerrp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The machine she was working on was not the one that crushed her. This sounds more like bad industrial design, that allowed one robotic arm to reach into another work area. Either they should have been separated further, or they should have been energized through overlapping lockouts.

    2. Re:Terrible by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed, and that is a completely standard approach. If the safety equipment was faulty, not present, or there was pressure to not use it, then there is a very good case. If the equipment was there, working, but not used, then there is no case at all. Machinery is always dangerous and you must never bypass safety procedures, or suffer the consequences.

      Many people are stupid though. Refer, for example, to all the photos on the Internet where you see somebody operate a circular bench saw without the protection bar. Just stumble once while the thing is running....

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:Terrible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The issue has very little to do with the lockout in the robotcell (well.. see below)).

      The problem is that you have two adjacent cells that can interact. If Cell A is in lockout mode then the Robot from Cell B should not be allowed to reach into Cell A, but it may well still be allowed to work in it's own cell.

      So the possible faults here are:
      1. User failed to use correct lockout (climbing over door, having other human help reset door (it's supposed to be impossible from insdie the cell))
      2. The lockout failed/hardware error (this can basically not happen, the odds are astronomical since the lockout is required to use dual channels with supervision)
      3 a. A design mistake was made: A non secure* function (Software and/or Hardware) was used to stop robot B from moving into Cell A and it failed.
      3 b. A design mistake was made: A secure* function (Software and/or Hardware) was implemented the wrong way.

      I'm guessing 3a or 3b.

      * secure codes runs in a safety PLC or or similar module. This code basically cannot fail (it has internal comparison like aircraft) and the hardware is fault resistant (basically everything is doubled so two errors must happen within a very limited time for there to be any risk). However this code must still be good. The secure function only makes sure that the code the programmer wrote actually functions as written. Tests and design documents needs to decide what the code should do.

      Source: European Industrial Engineer

    4. Re:Terrible by green1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And yet an action that it was known to be fully capable of doing under other circumstances.

      It doesn't matter if it *should* do the thing at the time, what matters is whether it *can* do the thing at any time. And if the answer is yes, it should have been subject to lock out-tag out.

  9. "Human Colleague"... Nope, You Just Don't Get It by Archtech · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The term "human colleague" immediately reveals that the writer has no idea of what a "robot" is. The most important thing always to keep in mind is that a "robot" is a machine - or, more likely nowadays, a collection of machines. It is a tool, even if that tool is capable of a limited set of autonomous actions. The accidental death described in TFA is a perfect illustration of this vital principle. Maybe there should be signs ten feet tall prominently displayed on all walls in workplaces that use robots: "A ROBOT IS *NOT* A 'COLLEAGUE'!"

    Mind you, this confusion has been inherent since the word was first coined. "The word 'robot' was first used to denote a fictional humanoid in a 1920 play R.U.R. by the Czech writer, Karel Capek but it was Karel's brother Josef Capek who was the word's true inventor". [Wikipedia] The word is derived from the Slavic language root meaning "work" or "worker", and strongly suggests that a robot is to some extent intechangeable with human workers. Of course, that is absolutely not the case.

    Isaac Asimov confronted these issues head-on when he began writing science fiction stories about robots. His "Three Laws of Robotics", which essentially forbid any robot to harm a human being, are treated as indispensable in his stories. But Asimov blandly ignored the obvious fact that there is no known way to implement such laws, which incorporate high-level abstract notions and moral principles. Until robots become at least as intelligent and complex as human nervous systems, such commands cannot be implemented. And if they ever do, we will immediately face even more tremendous problems.

    --
    I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
  10. Come on, not that "Terminator" BS again... by Eloking · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "Robot" engineer here. And when I say "Robot", I really talk about "Industrial Robot". Not the one that look like human.

    It's 2015 all over again when another "Robot" killed a Volkswagen worker. People were all "Matrix have begun" rogue.

    First, let me tell you to scary part : "The robot have done exactly what it have been programmed to".

    Second, let me tell you the encouraging part : "The robot have done exactly what it have been programmed to".

    It's always the same thing, "industrial robot" kill/hurt someone, and we see an headline about Robot revolution coming to kill us all in Terminator style. Those robot are just basic program controlling a bunch of servomotor, nothing "AI rogue humanoid robot with a shutgun" like. But there's on thing that are common to each of those story : "Safety violation".

    In my mind, industrial robot are still the most dangerous piece of hardware you'll ever work with, period. And that's why there's a shit ton of safety measure for them. Yeah gears are dangerous and could tear off your finger, but you indistinctly know that as long as you don't put your finger close to them, they won't bite you. It's not the case with robot.

    Back to the Volkswagen case, the worker didn't respect the safety procedure. The robot are connected to a safety gate that "must" be open when there's a worker inside the cell. You enter the cell, you put your lock in the gate to deactivate everything dangerous inside of it. But, from what I've understand, those worker wanted to work fast and took a "shortcut" while testing their equipment and decided to close the gate while a worker was inside. Of of the system then activated the robot that started it's wielding procedure with the worker right between both : https://www.youtube.com/watch?... (Look between 0:05 and 0:30, everything else in this video is shit).

    I work constantly in this sort of system and you'll be amazed how many "close call" I've seem so far. The thing is, people are completely clueless about robot (Hell, one time I was presenting a robotic cell with two KUKA robotic arm to some potential customer and one of the cute asian girl asked me if she should "see" the body of the robot. She was thinking there's was a huge robot under the floor controlling the two arm).

    Long story short : Respect the freaking safety procedure.

    --
    Elok
    1. Re:Come on, not that "Terminator" BS again... by freeze128 · · Score: 2

      That video is HILARIOUS!

  11. Re:"Human Colleague"... Nope, You Just Don't Get I by freeze128 · · Score: 2

    Humans anthropomorphize machines all the time. Maybe we should blame Hanna/Barbera for making "The Jetsons".

  12. Re:Yeah, we should have driverless cars on the roa by coolsnowmen · · Score: 2

    ...kill the kid in a way that no human would have ever done, unless high on drugs.

    Or falling asleep, or distracted by texting, or messing with their music, or...- The computer doesn't have to be perfect, just better than us, which seems quite easy at this point.

    it is no more than the sum of its programming or the reliability of its sensors.

    And neither are you or I.

  13. Yup, here's your problem by jfdavis668 · · Score: 2

    Someone set this thing to "evil".

  14. Re:Lock-Out Tag-Out by IvoryRing · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Lock-Out Tag-Out is a good practice in many cases.

    It isn't always possible, however.

    Note this portion of the description from the summary:

    routinely inspected and adjusted processes

    - there are many times when the design of the machine is such that adjusting and calibrating requires the machine to be energized; and sometimes safety interlocks must be disabled (generally with vendor provided tools) in order to make those adjustments.

    An injury or death (sadly more specifically the high dollar value lawsuit following it) may provide sufficient incentive for the vendor to redesign the machine to allow for routine adjustments in a safer manner.

    Even though plenty of people will dismiss this as a matter of a careless worker (which it might or might not be true in the specific instance), the fact is that some jobs are dangerous but necessary. Personally, I won't take a dangerous job; but I know that a modern lifestyle requires that someone does dangerous jobs. Workers, managements and equipment vendors all must work together to minimize the number of injuries and deaths involved with doing dangerous work. Ideally robotics are able to reduce the number of workers exposed to 'dangerous but necessary' conditions; but until we have robots that are able to fully adjust and repair other robots people will be involved in this kind of work.

  15. Re:Unplug it first by Daetrin · · Score: 2

    "Shut down all the garbage mashers on the detention level!"

    "No! Shut them ALL down!"

    --
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
  16. Re:"Human Colleague"... Nope, You Just Don't Get I by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But Asimov blandly ignored the obvious fact that there is no known way to implement such laws, which incorporate high-level abstract notions and moral principles. Until robots become at least as intelligent and complex as human nervous systems, such commands cannot be implemented. And if they ever do, we will immediately face even more tremendous problems.

    You haven't actually read Asimov's Robot stories, have you? If you had, you'd know that the implementation of the three laws of robotics was entirely irrelevant to the points he was trying to make.

  17. Re: Still want self driving cars? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

    I gather you don't have any knowledge of modern electronics including A to D conversion. Microseconds are an eternity.

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  18. Re:"Human Colleague"... Nope, You Just Don't Get I by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Agreed that a Robot is no more a colleague than a screwdriver.

    I think you're wrong about Asimov, though. It's obvious that to write about theoretical concerns of future technology, the author must proceed without knowing how to actually implement the technology, but may be able to say that it's theoretically possible. There is no shortage of good, predictive science fiction written when we had no idea how to achieve the technology portrayed. For example, Clarke's orbital satellites were steam-powered. Steam is indeed an efficient way to harness solar power if you have a good way to radiate the waste heat, but we ended up using photovoltaic. But Clarke was on solid ground regarding the theoretical possibility of such things.

  19. There's some grusome bias here by wardrich86 · · Score: 2

    "The machine loaded the hardware onto Holbrook's head."

    I'm not sure what the literary device is being used here, but that word choice really makes it the entire blurb leading up to this point makes it sound like the robot became sentient and was on a mission. The last line (the bit I quoted) was equal parts gruesome, horrific, and fantastic. I would read a book by whomever wrote the bit there.