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Germany Plans To Fine Social Media Sites Over Hate Speech (reuters.com)
Germany plans a new law calling for social networks like Facebook to remove slanderous or threatening online postings quickly or face fines of up to 50 million euros ($53 mln). From a report: "This (draft law) sets out binding standards for the way operators of social networks deal with complaints and obliges them to delete criminal content," Justice Minister Heiko Maas said in a statement announcing the planned legislation on Tuesday. Failure to comply could see a social media company fined up to 50 million euros, and the company's chief representative in Germany fined up to 5 million euros. Germany already has some of the world's toughest hate speech laws covering defamation, slander, public incitement to commit crimes and threats of violence, backed up by prison sentences for Holocaust denial or inciting hatred against minorities. It now aims to update these rules for the social media age.
Also, start jailing their execs if they do nothing about it.
Amazing what happens when you do that.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Some countries have it, some don't.
Germany is a doesn't have.
I'm going to sue my neighbor if someone ever robs their house and leaves crap on the lawn on their way out. Can't have eyesores like that. Sure it won't be their fault, but that apparently doesn't matter.
Oh my. Fifty million? Can't the EU get more absurd than it is. With unelected leadership of czar-like commissars, paired with legally toothless Parliament of seven hundred unagreeing entities. What wrong can come out of it, if not Euro-Soviet Union v2.0
Who defines "hate speech"?
This will backfire so hard.
I am familiar with the German media landscape and people have been complaining about the lying press for years now. Especially the state-funded news stations.
Technically they do not have a lying press, but a press that very often omits and twists, but that is besides the question.
What will happen is that people will report every news statement from those state funded medias on facebook.
Facebook will then face the possibility of effectively removing everything from those medias, or pay a hefty fee.
Once the politicians realize what will happening they will retract that law, after all it is frequently happening that they move into the board of those media agencies after their term is over, despite the supposed neutrality of the state funded press.
It's a small wonder what some culture marxism can achieve when applied religiosly.
Why do we see so much hypocrisy from leftists?
On one hand, they're always talking about how important "openness", "tolerance", "acceptance", and "transparency" are.
Yet at the same time, leftists are at the forefront of putting extreme limits on what people can express, and extraordinarily harshly punishing anyone who dares to express an idea that these leftists dislike.
Are leftist ideologies inherently contradictory, resulting in this sort of hypocrisy emerging naturally?
Or is it some problem with the people themselves, such as a mental disorder of some sort, that draws them toward leftist ideologies in the first place, and renders them unable to see their own hypocrisy?
Is there some other explanation?
They had strict laws against hate speech in Weimar Republic - can everybody remember where that ended?
Why would there be any hate speech? Personally I love the fascist Nazis in Germany who have decided that they get to control what others say.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Momma: "Little Adolf why are your shoes untied?!"
Little Adolf (wails): "But Momma I tried, but I don't like the knotzies."
Momma (lovingly while tying his shoes): "Don't worry Little Adolf you will learn to love the knotzies."
First as Nazi, Nazis, then grammar Nazis, then Fem Nazis, and now social media Nazis.
You can't seem to get your anti-free speech laws right without it looking overtly heavy handed (Nazi-esk). Seriously when are you guys just going to jump up and bust out some goose step line dancing again? You know you want to.
I honestly wonder how Slashdotter's feel about the most "left-wing" countries pressing down on any kind of speech they dislike, including criticism of government policies.
I'm a moderate. I swing both ways. ( ;) )
But to me, it's alarming to me how left-wing countries are rapidly approaching and embracing authoritarianism / fascism. (Remember China is a left-wing authoritarian state.) But most people seem to conflate "right wing = authoritarian = bad guys" and "left wing = freedom = good guys."
At least with US politics, there's been a real splintering. The old GOP is still authoritarian. But the newer GOP are much more "pro-gay marraige, get the government out of your bedroom / life." While the old left seems to be more free loving, and the new left is the ones burning down starbucks because someone dared to say something they don't like.
So to head back to Germany. Honestly, I'm glad Trump won (WHAT, OMG, DOWNVOTE YOU BASTARD). Because Hillary had spoken at length about European governments being a "model" to follow and, not even about Hillary, but the thousands of people hoping to get into power and hold influence with Hillary at the helm, I really think the USA would have slanted further toward this idea where violence and government oppression is the cure to speech you dislike. (And when Trump got elected, it represented a clear setback.) And the second you say, "We don't use BETTER speech to defeat speech, we use laws and bats." You have basically tapped into people's primal urge to form lynch mobs, and when have you EVER heard of lynch mobs being associated with "justice?" Moreover, the heavily emotional (as opposed to fact-based) nature of the new left's strategy, leaves TONS of people waiting to be unleashed without any fact checking. People who become pawns for billionaires. People who get arrested while the billionaires can just say "I didn't MEAN they should really riot."
I remember growing up that being a liberal meant two things: 1) I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it. and 2) A diversity of IDEAS and perspectives strengthens us all.
And I'm honestly worried how the left has abandoned both of those core tenets yet somehow uses the same banner and labels. They're abusing the goodwill from decades of goodwork, to make people think their current oppression is still for the good of the world. Like a company buying out a brand name, and corrupting it with cheap knockoffs, but people still remember "The Brand Name" as something good so they get tricked by it.
If I say 'what you are doing is wrong'? Do i hate you?
Am I encouraging violence against you? What if I say only evil people do that?
If I say 'who you are voting for is evil' or worse 'people who vote for XXX are evil' Am I spewing hate?
Where do you draw the line.
In my experience ALL attempts at defining hate speech are attacks on free speech. Whoever defined what is 'hate' now has the power to define what is speech.
The only place to draw the line is when someone is standing there say 'we need to get our and do XYX to ABC'.
But that isn't 'hate speech' now you are inciting to riot, which is already a crime.
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
Stop giving them reasons
Stop making it hard for people to like people.
There is no free speech in Germany. You can't publish games about killing nazis (with the Nazi swastika logo) in Germany. I would know, having published video games in that region. You might also be surprised to know that the United States, Canada and Mexico are the ONLY regions in the world that consider video games 'expressions of free speech' and therefore beyond government censorship/regulation? In these regions the ESRB rates video games, like the MPAA (movie ratings) they are determined by a private entity funded by a coalition of video game publishers and developers. The system is far from perfect but it means all the censorship is coming from the industry itself, fueled by fears of consumer outrage should they release violence and boobies in a 'Rated E for everyone' video game. The governments of these regions cannot pass a law like the one in Germany, there is zero percent government censorship.
In Japan, U.K., Germany, Italy, France and Spain (regions I have shipped games in) these games are 'rated' by an organization controlled by the government. They can be and often are subjected to the political forces of the week. What is and is not allowed is often arbitrary, obtuse, and games are regularly given harsher ratings for espousing political or social beliefs that the government of the year doesn't like. (Not to mention governments of the past, which may have encoded banned images/thoughts into law)
When i first realized this information, it dawned on me how fragile freedom is. As westerners we tend to take it for granted and think that all the developed nations are abundant with freedom. When you look really closely though, freedom is a rather precious, fragile, and rare commodity in the world, deserving of our protection.
My point was that I agree with GP but would have used different wording. I fully agree that all speech should be legal, and thankfully in the US we have a Constitutional protection (for now) on free speech. I just saw from SXSW that a group of Germans was lecturing people about how speech needs to be prevented, and they could not answer some basic questions. Like: Who determines what is and is not "hate" speech?
Germans should know better. Prior to starting off two major world wars their leadership did exactly what they are doing. Stifle free speech, push propaganda, control the populace.
Hey Germans, what ever happened to "nie wieder"?
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
People can't control their own emotional reactions, so they want to control the world.
It will never work.
Being Liberal is about being open to different ideas, even if you end up dismissing them, you'll at least consider them. Being Conservative is having a set idea about most things and sticking to it. A person can argue that certain economics / belief systems match up to either viewpoint but it's largely irrelevant.
There's a good quote I think I read on here ages ago:
"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea"
I've seen an increasing number of younger people mature into conservatives. They have fairly set ideas about how the world should work and are increasingly unwilling to listen to any kind of differing opinions or viewpoints. I feel like things are becoming more and more polarized as well, though that may be a function of what the news wants me shaking my fist at this year.
The sad thing is that these same people were relatively open-minded a short time ago but are already closing the door behind themselves (or talking themselves into loops solidifying specific viewpoints)
It's a madhouse.
I don't like hate speech laws. They tend to be twisted to suppress legitimate political criticism.
Hate speech laws are almost always applied in a disproportionate way. They tend to pick and choose what racist behavior to censor, and what racist behavior is tolerated, compared to what racist behavior isn't tolerated. They pick winners and losers in the game of racism. Rather than condemn all racism, and promote secular egalitarianism.
Are Neo-Nazis, and the KKK Terrorists? Yes.
Are they a Protestant Christian Terrorist group that would not only attack Blacks, and Jews, Muslims but also Catholics, calling them Worshippers of Ba'al and Asherah? Yes.
Is Evangelical Protestant Christianity a dangerous cult that is a clear and present danger to Democracy, Secularism, and the rule of law, and civil rights? Yes.
Is it considered racist against white people or all Christians to say that? No. Because there are many sects of Christianity. With varying interpretations, and this points the finger of one particular violent cult.
Are ISIS and Al-Queada Terrorists? Yes.
Are they a Sunni Wahabi Islamic that would not only attack Blacks, and Jews, and Christians, but also Shites/The Shia for being Heretics for believing the wrong Successor to Muhammad was Ali? Yes.
Do the Sunni Wahabi Muslims represent all of Islam? No. There are several variants of Islam. From Shia, to Amadi, Alloyaite, etc.
Is Sunni Wahabi Islam a dangerous cult that is a clear and present danger to Democracy, Secularism, and the rule of law, and civil rights? Yes.
Is it considered racist against all Sunni Arabs or Arabians in general? Yes, but thats only because the Saudis have successfully lobbied governments to conflate critics of this ideology with critics of brown people.
As long as hate speech laws work this way, real racism, real hate, and real bigotry will go unchallenged.
So will it be like the left? Hate speak is anything that I don't agree with. You disagreed with me so you hate me. You didn't vote for the past president so you are racist.
It is perfectly understandable why Americans chose Trump, against extreme left bolshevism
and voted in a such way to send for good, to toxic waste dump of history, political correctness and multiculturalism.
Snooty enough to look down their noses at us for building houses out of wood and not having universal healthcare, and yet not mature enough to see a swastika without freaking out, or issue a building permit for a mosque with a minaret.
After years of safe space demanding snowflakes in the US, we are starting to see them turn into cannibals. During the "woman's day march" fights broke out between different groups, with some groups claiming that the white protesters were not as victimized as others. But it's not enough, and not fast enough. The damage that things like Title 9 have done because of these groups isn't going away any time soon.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Frankly, I want to see the US and Germany to get in a pissing match over hate speech vs free speech. The US should in turn force these social media companies to honor free speech and allow political or controversial speech to stay up.
Germany banning speech? What could possibly go wrong?
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Censorship is always dangerous and I wonder just how this will effect other nations. Since German nationals can visit foreign sites and see things that the German government may consider offensive or dangerous will that have any effect of sites outside of Germany? France has similar behaviors in banning the sale of war relics. If an American posts a Nazi helmet for sale on Ebay in the US will that have any effect upon Ebay offices that might exist in Germany?
For once can't a US company pull out of just one repressive country instead of capitulating to their asshattery?
Massive welcome signs costing thousands of immigrants their lives
Pursuit of "hate speech" charges against political adversaries
Banning religious attire
German government can't compete in the market of ideas so they shut it down out of fear of losing control. Way past time Merkel finds a new line of work.
They don't care what color they are they love their jack boots.
love is just extroverted narcissism
......the title says it all, really.
I would advise Facebook to call their bluff. Germany doesn't have authority over what everyone on the internet can read/write. They may feel they have the authority to prohibit what people in Germany read/write. If Facebook refuses to comply with German laws and refuses to pay any fines, Germany's only real option is to force German ISPs to block facebook. Let German politicians deal with the repercussions of that decision.
just saying
Good sir, I stand corrected.
It is just that the censorship on US side is self made, and as such probably more vicious. We can fight against government censorhsip, shift the laws , and for example in the end get a MUCH better privacy protection than the US. And yet it does not happen in the US. Why ? Because the private entities are worse. You can't fight against them. You can't even vote with your dollar when it is industry wide, e.g. the code of conduct for comic. As for boobies, I have enjoy "boobies" in my comic book since I was an early teen (12ish) , yet it never really fazed me, because I enjoyed them at the beach or the local park, and nobody really had their head explode like puritain in the US do. Basically private group censorship is worst IMO because you cannot vote against them, and often it is obcure and intentionally not well explained. Whereas government censorship usually is, and at least in western europe well restricted by court. I would wager I am much more free than you think I am, and you are much less in effect than you think you are.
Germans were wiser shortly after WWII, after being duped twice by propaganda and thought police. Your appeal to ego was simply repeated for the last 30 or so years while your liberties have been stripped away. Germans have been foolish enough to believe the appeals to ego.
Don't worry, it's an effective piece of rhetoric that works very well and many people from all countries are duped by it. "All the smart people believe", "all the cool people do", "all of the nice people do", and of course "you are mean/dumb/uncivilized if you do" results in no thoughts of the subject.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
just block germany and delete german accounts
Soon they'll sell it to the Digg crew.
I've complained before about the threats of violence and inciting of violence on Twitter and other sites, so I support this.
These laws already exist in Germany and in many other countries: Slash-dotters should realize that the power to say whatever one feels is very rare in this world, since there will be a government or a SJW lynch mob delivering punishment. At least the government is trying to force responsibility for what is said. SJW mobs have, with self-righteousness, incited violence against child by-standers, usually girls, which cannot in any way be labeled protecting freedom or speech.
I have dozens of relatives in Germany and guess what? They are all scared right now because of what is happening. I have an Aunt who recently passed away who was a child during WW II and told us how a majority of German citizens had no idea that Jews were being put to Genocide by the German Government. The US Soldiers marched German families through the concentration camps because Germans thought that the Allied Soldiers were lying. Their ignorance is a direct result of free speech dying and pure Government control of Newspapers, Radio, public speaking, and the education system.
That last part should bother the hell out of Germans who if they bothered to read a history book would find that the education system is one of the first places Hitler attacked with his ideology. He controlled all messages in education, just like you have today.
You took the wrong message, and shame on you for making such an asinine claim. Remember that the Jews were intolerant, the Pols were intolerant, the Hungarians were intolerant, the French were intolerant, the Russians were intolerant, the Brits were intolerant, the Schwarzs were intolerant, and I can repeat that for any group who spoke out against the State.
Everyone was was the enemy of the State. Just like today... You just refuse to admit as much
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Hatespeech has been illegal in Germany for more than 50 years, so get over it. For details look at the history of paragraph 130 and 140 StGB.
With that in mind I'd like to propose an alternative title for this story:
"Germany plans to fine social media sites that fail to remove illegal content that has been reported to them"
The Merklized German Trotsky-ites screw perfectly into the nibberized Obama.nation USA progressives - - - stupid, tyrannous, ebonics spewing and culture.blind to a fault they would have us living in Tonga-JuJuland. You wanna try that Mr Progressive and find out who really cuts you a new azzwhole ?
Why does every buffoon go to this argument? Because they can only repeat what they are told?
Shouting fire in a crowded theater is not illegal. A call to action which may cause severe harm "may" be illegal, if the call to action is based on fabricated information intended to be malicious. E.G. "There is a bomb on the subway!", when in fact there is no bomb and the intent was to disturb the public.
Going a bit further, there is a gross distinction between a person yelling "fire" in a crowded theater and having a different opinion on politics than you. The people wanting to shut down speech are not worried about the former because it's illegal already, they want the latter. Which is fine as long as you agree with their position, but the minute they change course or you diverge you are silenced.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Two forms of comedy which must be banned under "hate" speech because it is impossible to discern comedy from hate. That is exactly why comedians will no longer perform on College campuses in the US today, and most stopped a decade ago.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Seeing the number of conspiracy theory nutjobs here, I thought for a moment I was on breitbart.com.
No. It's not ok to assault people, specific groups or even politicians with lies, threads or disturbing images. Especially not if behind a cover of an anonymous account. What most people don"t understand: Free speech doesn't mean that you can't be hold accountable. You CAN say that "Xyz builds shitty cars and they fuck and lie to all customers". But Xyz is most likely suing you for defamation. But what if you post your "free speech" on Facebook fake account and hide in the shadows of Internet anonymity? What if Facebook doesn't take down your statement? So - the German government introduced a "big" stick. Either give us the identity of those who post "hate speech" or take it down. There's nothing preventing FB to sue the government.
So - go ahead and post your free speech. Nobody is going to stop you. And be prepared to defend it. That's what free speech is all about. If you just snipe from cover, your speech is worthless because it is undefended. It's ownership falls to the site it is made on. And the site will have to take it down. Simple as that.
When you know what you did and you try too hard.
...is on a balcony and asks which way is the stairs, left or right, and I direct him to the edge with no railing, did I commit a crime?