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US Lawmakers Propose Minimum Seat Sizes For Airlines (consumerist.com)
The size of each passenger's seat on an airplane -- as well as the distance between rows of seats -- should be standardized, according to legislation proposed by two American lawmakers. Slashdot reader AmiMoJo quotes Consumerist:
The text of the bill does not specify any dimensions for seat widths or legroom. Rather, if the legislation is passed, the particulars would be left up to the FAA to sort out... Though seat size may vary from airline to airline, Cohen notes that the average distance between rows of seats has dropped from 35 inches before airline deregulation in the 1970s, to around 31 inches today. Your backside is getting the squeeze, as well, as the average width of an airline seat has also shrunk from 18 inches to about 16.5 inches.
It's about time! I don't fit in a standard airline seat, so currently have 3 options - Pay for business class, have an uncomfortable flight for me and seat neighbours, or don't fly. In recent years I've been taking option 3 more and more often.
I'm not particularly fat, I'm just 6'6 and broad shouldered. With each generation getting bigger than their parents it doesn't make sense to be reducing seat sizes year on year.
"US Lawmakers Solicit Campaign Donations From Airlines"
It's not going to pass. There'll be a storm of lobbying activity and the proposal will quietly die at the bottom of a drawer somewhere...
Log in or piss off.
These days I avoid flying if I can. I'd rather drive 10 hours then put up with lines in security, getting molested by the TSA, sitting in a tiny seat in a tin can with a dozen screaming babies and sneezing people...
But, those small seats are why some people can afford to fly. I'd like larger seats, sure - but I'd rather see that solved by the airlines instead of the government sticking their nose into the market yet again.
Imagine this:
Enjoy our spacious, comfortable seats on your flight with a full two feet of leg room. With no children under thirteen, you can be assured that your flight will be completed in peace. We still serve complimentary drinks and snacks and offer free pillows, so you'll be refreshed when you land. Why suffer? Fly NottaCrap Airline for only $100 more. Enjoy the experience. (tm)
They'd have people stampeding to get tickets.
Love sees no species.
Government has plenty of higher priority issues on their plate. Plus, they are certainly not experts when it comes to designing airplanes and airline economics. Leave it up to the airline operators to solve.
Is there a problem having the "market" sort this out? Why [the attempt to] legislate it?
If this were some regimes in the east, we'd be trumpeting our "luck" for living in the west, where we have "all the freedom"' and minimal government involvement in our lives.
Ever been in a middle seat on one of these things? Not only do people NOT fit in 17" seats, if you're in the middle, they are in yours. I've been in the situation where I've been sharing my seat with 2 other "non petite" other people..
Unless people get smaller, these seats need to get bigger. 18" with maybe 20" in the middle..
This is fucking stoopid,,
How the fuck is this news for werds?
thats news for nerds
First, no more paper tickets, and now this, smaller spaces!?
Initiating electronic protest!
FUCK THAT :echo chamber:
(Fuck That!!!... fuck that!!, fuk tha!, eff dat)
Oh
They've passed such repeals six times while Obama was President [anncoulter.com] â" and could be relied on to veto it. Now that Trump is eager to sign it as soon as it hits his desk, they've become "thoughtful" seeing "nuances"...
This just infuriates me. It is part of the reason why people don't have any faith in the two major US political parties. It is sort of like how people will eagerly issue wedding invites to relatives they have no desire to see when they are confident that the invite will be refused. The Republicans now obviously have the same lack of spine as during the last 6 years of the Obama administration. During the Obama administration they quickly rolled over on every debt ceiling increase and budget increase requested. They sent unworkable legislation that they knew Obama would veto (not just Obamacare repeal bills). They were clearly posturing/grandstanding.
I can't help but feel that the way they are behaving now is an effort by the establishment types to subvert Trump because they don't like him. Funny enough, I think that they are likely to more damage than the Democrats that also don't like Trump.
Meanwhile, regulating the seat-sizes?.. Seriously?
Seriously, this is not an issue of public health and safety. It is an issue of comfort. There are already standards for aviation safety and airworthiness. The government has no business considering this.
--
After eight years of being racist, dissent is patriotic once again.
Yeah, I got whiplash from last 16 years. Rewind to the Bush administration and dissent was patriotic, at least according to the media. It was hysterically funny to see the diehard Democrats who tried to pass themselves off as being all about civil liberties oppose renewal of the PATRIOT Act under Bush, but not really a peep out of those same people when Obama pushed for the same exact renewal of powers as Bush had.
Because if your ass is as big as his ass, you too fat to fly in one seat!
theaters. Minus the age restriction and free snacks this is exactly what some of the big theater chains are doing to try to get people to come back to the movies.
The AMC near me just ripped out all of their seats and put in leather recliners with enough leg room that people can walk by without you having to stand up (or so says the wife, I haven't been yet). Unfortunately they can't control the kids on their fucking phones and rude dumb fucks talking.
I remember what it was like to go to the theater and actually be engaged by the movie and not the other assholes in the room. I feel bad for people too young to know what that magic is like.
There aren't 2 parties anymore. There haven't been in decades, really.
There's *one* party, that's been using a number of carefully crafted wedge issues to maintain the illusion of having differences.
Some of its members pander to the extremists in the central states, others pander to the moderates along the coasts, and when the party manages to get in through the loud screams of the extremists it moves a little faster than it does otherwise.
But the party still does the same thing either way; slowly squeeze the taxpayers for more and more, providing less and less, and handing the ever-greater difference to their actual bosses.
On my last flight from CPH to LAS and back again(about 10 hours each way). I booked a 1000$ seat instead of a 500$ seat to get a "premium" seat, and it was worth it. I could open my laptop and play games, I there was room for my legs and even to each side in the seat, I could even recline my seat enough to get a decent nap. :)
But often you don't have the option of a seat double the price, you have to pay three or four times as much as the next step up.
I have been traveling with other people that are below the average size for scandinavians, and that always say that they have no problems with the small seats, and yet their elbows are always entering my space.
You need to reread your linked source (and also find something better to do with your life). It doesn't say that there were six bills repealing "Obamacare" that were passed to Obama, it says that the House passed a repeal six times - it only made it to Obamas desk once, in January 2016. And that was his only veto of any "Obamacare" repeal.
Given that the Republicans had control of both the House and the Senate for the 114th Congress, they had plenty of opportunity to force a repeal through...
So no, they havent just got "thoughtful" at all.
The seats aren't big but not really out of line with what I've seen in coaches or even trains. Sucks for super tall freaks but the fat bastards, who are the majority complaining about this, should just put down the sammich for a while. Fun anecdote: on a recent trip I've watched a fat family cram themselves with various junk food they brought onto the plane while barely fitting into the seats. Nobody else had to snack before they brought the food.
If you want, pony up for first class and get the full regulation-era experience including the pricing.
Editor david..
fucking please...
more like editor Beau with another phallus in place.
same face, different place? Kitchen versus bathroom or bedroon?
Of course they're seeing "nuances". The whole thing was a carefully crafted wedge issue upon which the Republicans could scream and shout. And ridiculously, they were screaming about a health care bill based almost entirely on a Republican health care bill -- RomneyCare.
But the ACA is government intrusion! (Actually, it is, in a good way.) It's dying! (CBO says it's stable, though it is having issues in some Republican-based states who fought it in the first place.) It's raised my rates! (It's true that rates have increased, though not as much as rates would have increased without it. And part of that is through elimination of "insurance" plans that some people paid for that covered basically nothing at all.)
Regardless, now that the Republicans COULD pass the same bill, they're stalling why they try to figure out the actual political impact of kicking millions of registered voters off the ACA and off of Medicaid, not to mention dramatically raising insurance rates for millions of others.
So much for "more people will have more access to more affordable health care."
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
I want to know why werds is a suggestion on your phone.
... if the legislation is passed, the particulars would be left up to the FAA to sort out...
The FAA reauthorization expires in 198 days.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Prior to 1979, air travel cost was fixed from point to point and airlines were guaranteed a profit on every seat. It did cost more to fly, but airlines competed on customer service and schedule, not in a race to the bottom to see how many people they could stuff on a plane.
Airlines, especially low cost ones, are incredibly low margin businesses. They have enormous fixed costs and a customer base that simultaneously demands pampering at the high end and $49 flights on the low end. Setting a minimum floor to limit how bad the airline can make the experience is a good thing. Otherwise, Spirit, EasyJet and Ryanair will be offering "straphanger fares" for people willing to stand for a transatlantic flight. Delta, American and United have started offering "Economy Minus" fares that don't let you choose your seat, reduce seat pitch even further, and don't even give you free snacks/drinks.
I wish they'd just re-regulate passenger service and stop the fare wars, but this is a good compromise. Imagine not having to sit next to angry drunk people who have no idea how to behave in public. Let those people take the train, bus or drive.
While we're at it, I'd like to propose a few more regulations about things that piss me off:
Might makes right irrelevant.
It's the seat on my bicycle.
And I enjoyed every bit of it! I call it Bicycle Class!
Most Respectfully Yours Mark Allyn Bellingham, Washington
How about a maximum ass size instead. We are a nation of overly large humans and that's not counting our over-inflated egos.
So because you are a special snowflake air travel has to become more expensive for us normal folks?
**Life is too short to be serious**
Bigger, and more massive people should pay more for bigger seats. Volume on an airplane costs money. Fuel to move mass on an airplane costs more. Use more, pay more.
Purely autonomous personal vehicles will solve this.
Recline your car seat back all the way and get in at 9 PM and have the car drive you all night long.
No TSA hassles. No rumblings about paying extra for a carry on bag, a snack that should cost $1 instead costing $5, or being kicked by the guy behind you getting out of his seat because he has a small bladder.
Driverless cars won't be the end of domestic airlines, but they will have to adapt to keep customers.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
This "more regulation" will not going to fly with the current administration. They will either need to "remove two regulations" to make face, or not do it at all.
That being said, we were able to vote with our dollars until very recently when there was real competition in the airline industry. Now there are only a few major airlines, and everything seems to be going downwards, at the passengers' expense. Wouldn't it be better to break them up again for better competition? This way we don't need to wait for the house to pass laws to get better service.
It's our fault for being so undemanding. It's our fault for always going for the cheapest price instead of the best service. If we aren't selective based on things like legroom, the airlines are going to eliminate those features. They hire people for $500K to show them how to save $100 by screwing the passengers. The consumer did it, not the airlines. Same thing with Made In China, who chose cheap over quality?
#1 reason is the (illegal) TSA treating everyone like a criminal...searching EVERYONE in the name of "safety" (giving up your rights as a citizen...in the name of security LMAO). #2, I remember when just 30+ years ago, it was still somewhat of a treat to get on an airliner. I even remember as a kid, anyone would walk right up to the gate of the airplane, to see someone depart or arrive. Heck, you even got REAL China, REAL stainless steel knives and forks. #3, flying today? Nothing more than cattle being transported from one location to the other. Rude people, rude staff at times, courtesty out the door. Wonder how long it will be, until public transit hand rails will come along, and everyone is made to stand during the flight. Gotta maximize the passenger load. Sorry...I'll just drive to where I need to go. Screw the airlines, TSA and all that other crap!
instead of interfering on behalf of the gluttons and the expense of everyone else, why not just mandate that the purchase page disclose the dimensions of the seat.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
We'll make up for our losses by reducing cabin pressure and by shipping all luggage (including carry-on) via the most *economical option available at all terminals we operate out of.
(*) Usually, an LTL shipper.
Lawmakers â" and SlashDot editors â" should stick to "stuff that matters". No other laws should even be evaluated, until the "Obamacare" disaster is properly abolished â" with or without a replacement...
A). Government is a mutlitasking system, capable of pursuing multiple avenues at once.
B). There is no Obamacare disaster, it is working reasonably well, and will continue to do so, unless Trump and company blow it up. Which they want to do, to be sure, but they might be prevented.
C). Republicans have had eight years to offer an alternative. Now that they finally have been forced to do so, they delivered an option that strips insurance from people, reduces healthcare and will get people killed. So that speaks a lot for them.
They've passed such repeals six times while Obama was President â" and could be relied on to veto it. Now that Trump is eager to sign it as soon as it hits his desk, they've become "thoughtful" seeing "nuances"...
You didn't know already? They had it easy when they could stand on the street corner and shout, but now they own responsibility for doing things. Trump might be willing to sign anything, he suffers from cognitive disorders and is likely to do whatever some sweet-talking nimrod shoves in front of him, but that doesn't work for people who would rather not be castigated and defenestrated.
They are scared, because they know they can be ruined by it.
Meanwhile, regulating the seat-sizes?.. Seriously?
Already a matter of regulation due to safety issues. Sorry, but you must have missed the Seventies.
It was even earlier in buses and trains.
Mi, it seems to me that you are ignorant and uninformed, have you not ever been taught anything?
Just like cargo, you should pay per kilogram.
Dialectician. Archology.
If the lobbyists dont make it, they can't affect the proposal.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
They're all about reducing regulations, deregulating airlines and letting the market sort issues out. They'll stick to their principles and never let additional regulation pass.
Seriously, this is not an issue of public health and safety. It is an issue of comfort. There are already standards for aviation safety and airworthiness. The government has no business considering this.
Comfort is easily connected to health and safety. The DOD has copious studies on accommodations for soldiers, sailors, and airmen. It is simple to recognize the potential for injuries in seating that is too small and too large. Not to mention evacuation issues.
Sorry, but this is government business.
FAA has dual mandate. One to issue regulation and to enforce compliance. Second to promote air travel. It is high time we remove language regarding promotion of air travel. It does not make sense anymore. It should only be concerned with safety and compliance.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
A while back there was Midwest Express Airlines. They were formed from the Kimberly Clark internal flight department, and was based in Milwaukee. They flew DC-9 and MD-80 planes with 2 X 2 seating, good legroom, good food, and baked on-board cookies.
The flights I took were only about $20 more than the competition. It was a great way to fly.
Then the internet came along and destroyed them. People will always choose the flight that comes out the cheapest, although there's a little leeway to pay more for a flight that doesn't leave at 4 AM.
Midwest couldn't compete, so they eventually went to standard seating and cut back on services. By then they were just like any other airline, except with a limited route structure that couldn't compete with the big airlines.
I rarely fly, but when I do I try to fly on Airbus narrow body planes, or Embraer regional jets. Those usually have 18 inch wide seats..
A mossing word in the title.
_Fat_ Us lawmakers..(almost as obese as the president, but with larger hands) ...
Hi, Certification for emergency evacuation requires a test of real people evacuating in less than a specified amount of time. These tests are done with all airline employees as passengers, all physically fit, all alert, all expecting the drill to occur, and with no luggage. More seats means more less-physically fit passengers, clueless and sleepy passengers, kids, handicapped pax, and lots and lots of luggage and obstructions. Make safety the number 1 reason for seat minimums.
The market has failed, thus legislation was proposed.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Lawmakers can do what the market cannot - force the larger seats to happen.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Since cramped seating is known to increase the chances of a DVT, and WILL slow people evacuating the plane, health and safety are involved.
This just infuriates me. It is part of the reason why people don't have any faith in the two major US political parties. It is sort of like how people will eagerly issue wedding invites to relatives they have no desire to see when they are confident that the invite will be refused. The Republicans now obviously have the same lack of spine as during the last 6 years of the Obama administration. During the Obama administration they quickly rolled over on every debt ceiling increase and budget increase requested. They sent unworkable legislation that they knew Obama would veto (not just Obamacare repeal bills). They were clearly posturing/grandstanding.
This is something you didn't know from the start? Trump's own blandishments were a joke. And his excuse that nobody realized how complicated it was? That's what we call revealing insight into his character.
I can't help but feel that the way they are behaving now is an effort by the establishment types to subvert Trump because they don't like him. Funny enough, I think that they are likely to more damage than the Democrats that also don't like Trump.
Yes, your average Republican is more likely to do more damage than any Democrat, the party has turned crazy enough to elect Trump is full of nutbars.
Yeah, I got whiplash from last 16 years. Rewind to the Bush administration and dissent was patriotic, at least according to the media. It was hysterically funny to see the diehard Democrats who tried to pass themselves off as being all about civil liberties oppose renewal of the PATRIOT Act under Bush, but not really a peep out of those same people when Obama pushed for the same exact renewal of powers as Bush had.
In reality, you were only called racist because you were paying attention only to the deluded ravings of Orly Taitz, meanwhile, unbeknownst to you, the ACLU, EPIC, and FreedomWatch continued their opposition to the Patriot Act, both in the courts and the legislatures.
In fact, most Democrats opposed an extension in 2010,2011 2013, and 2015. Rand Paul might be the only name you know, but Dennis Kucinich and Ron Wyden stood against it numerous times as well.
This is why you have no credibility, you go along with the empty-headed Mi when he plays the "race card" card, while anybody with a modicum of information can point out the flaws to your story. The deep factual ones.
No, seriously.
Did you miss where I said this: There are already standards for aviation safety and airworthiness.
The FAA certifies commercial aircraft to the proper standards that allow safe evacuation in an emergency. If there is a problem in that process, then let's fix the FAA so that they do it right. The proposed legislation sort of says "we know better than the FAA." Like someone else in this discussion said: "US Lawmakers Solicit Campaign Donations From Airlines".
Part of the FAA's job is to employ aviation safety experts to figure things out like appropriate minimum seat dimensions and separation. In any event, if legislators want to do something like this, then they should at least be honest and not say it is a safety issue.
Ideally, yes, the FAA would call bullshit on a seat shrink until proper evacuation studies are completed. They would also be looking in to the DVT issue as a potential flight safety issue. Since they haven't done those things, it's time for that balance of power thing to step in and direct them to do their job.
is this law proposition coming from lawmakers that were recently forced to fly cattle class and didn't like it ?
Sometimes a bit of rough, surprising human contact is all the difference between a boring trip to the airport and a sensual adventure. Just hide a bit of tinfoil in your nether regions and get yourself a free handy!
...how the fuck I'm supposed to take a train to Hawaii?
You want a larger seat? It's easy! Buy a business class or first class ticket!
Solution: take out all the seats and make everybody stand.