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Most Teens Who Abuse Opioids First Got Them From a Doctor (livescience.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Live Science: Most American teenagers who abuse opioid drugs first received the drugs from a doctor, a new study finds. Researchers looked at trends in the use of prescription opioids among U.S. adolescents from 1976 to 2015. They found a strong correlation between teens' taking the drugs for medical reasons and then later taking them for "non-medical" reasons, or in other words, abusing them, according to the study published today (March 20) in the journal Pediatrics. In 2015, the the most recent year of the study, 8 percent of adolescents reported abusing prescription opioids, and the majority of them had been prescribed opioids previously, the researchers found. The U.S. consumes about 80 percent of the world's prescription opioid supply. There has been consistent growth in the number of prescriptions written for opioids in the U.S., rising from 76 million prescriptions in 1991 to 207 million in 2013, according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse. However, the new study revealed that among teens, both medical and non-medical use of opioid medications has declined in recent years, starting in 2013. The decline may be due to careful prescribing practices, Sean McCabe, a research professor at the University of Michigan, said. There are several medical procedures that teens may undergo for which opioids are recommended for pain management. But doctors can be careful about the amount of these drugs they prescribe, and limit refills. Parents can make sure that any leftover pills are discarded. Another report was published today in the journal Pediatrics that analyzed data from the National Poison Data System. It found that of all 188,468 prescription opioid exposures reported for youth under 20 years old between 2000 and 2015, nearly all the exposures occurred at a home and were most common among children under 5, accounting for six of every 10 cases. According to NPR, those children were able to get their hands on the medication because it was improperly stored or was in a purse.
and only care about profits. This is more proof of that.
Our Attorney-General has told us that it was all because of pot!!!!
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Food isn't a necessity. It is a choice. Everyone likes to be well-fed. Everyone. But stop being so narcissistic thinking that you have to not starve all the time. Life isn't supposed to be like that.
No, it's actually a medical condition. Opiate withdrawal is not just a lack of feeling good. Addiction can happen even when the drugs are taken exactly as prescribed. Sometimes even that significant drawback is justified by the amount of pain the person would otherwise be in.
If the DEA would quit practicing medicine without a license it would be a solvable medical problem rather than a legal issue.
Why hasn't there been a study with spree killings and prescriptions? Most of the ones I looked into had a "disorder" / "treatment" while they were a teen.
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
In high school and college, every now and then someone would have surgery or have a bad injury, and they'd come back from the doctor bragging about the drugs they got. It was like a free pass to get high, and no one was ever concerned that it might lead to addiction because the drugs were prescribed by a doctor, so of course they aren't dangerous. It seems due to a failure to educate young people properly and a success on the drug companies' part to make their product seem like magic.
No, it's actually a medical condition. Opiate withdrawal is not just a lack of feeling good. Addiction can happen even when the drugs are taken exactly as prescribed. Sometimes even that significant drawback is justified by the amount of pain the person would otherwise be in.
I was prescribed opiates for pain after I had spinal surgery on c4-c6 in my neck. I was on them for months. The haze they produced meant I didn't really care about anything at all. This was not normal. It began to dawn on me that I was dependent on these drugs. I posted about the the withdrawal symptoms of opiates while I was going through the withdrawals.
I discussed this again with the doctor who confirmed I had been on them long enough to develop an opiate dependence. I can tell you what it feels like to be a junkie despite the fact that I have a completely different set of behaviors to draw on and nothing to reinforce an addictive behavior like that.
You feel confident, nothing really bothers you, but it's a false result of being detached from your pain and all of your emotions, which mean you come off as a stable balanced person. However you have very little empathy and you are truly apathetic. I found it to be an ugly sensation. Disconnected, I didn't care about anything.
When you think about it to be disconnected from pain also means to be disconnected from joy, from people. Next time you are in pain ask yourself how real it is. No sane person has that discussion with someone in pain. Opiates just make the pain and everything else, not real. So I would argue now that pain and joy are more real than materialistic concerns. That the connections in life, pain and joy are perhaps the only real things we have. My experiences with opiates were the more you take the less real you are.
If the DEA would quit practicing medicine without a license it would be a solvable medical problem rather than a legal issue.
True that.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
No, it's actually a medical condition. Opiate withdrawal is not just a lack of feeling good. Addiction can happen even when the drugs are taken exactly as prescribed. Sometimes even that significant drawback is justified by the amount of pain the person would otherwise be in.
My brother passed away a couple years ago. He used a lot of pain medicine. I think it contributed. If nothing else it masked the pancreatitis for at least some time. He was on just far too much stuff. It was insane and all of it was legally prescribed. I flushed it all after he passed. It took several flushes.
From everything I've read, he might have lived a far longer life had he smoked pot instead for the pain. Again, not a perfect solution, and you really want to get off them if you possibly can, but the opiods seem a lousy long term solution.
If marijuana really is a better choice and less hazardous than many opiods and such, then we really should get rid of the ridiculous classification. Again, I'm certainly not espousing smoking it recreationally, but if it is the choice between one that will kill you and pot, then pot seems less bad.
Nerds are people too!
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Addiction isn't a disease. It is a choice.
Bullcrap. Try to go three days without food. The urge to eat will be overwhelming. Yet a heroin addict will chose heroin over food.
This happened to my buddy. He got in a car accident or something. This was shortly after he graduated from high school, and his father had just died. He ended up on pain meds, ended up getting addicted after a couple of months. When his prescription ran out, he called up our mutual friend who was in to drugs and got more. This went on for about 18 months before he decided he wanted to become a veterinarian, somehow his friends and family weaned him off pills, and after two years was accepted in to vet school. Through no small miracle he made it through grad school and graduated, he's now pretty successful.
I grew up in a pretty rich suburb, we had time to help him and his family through the addiction, and he had a strong goal to strive for. Many people don't have the opportunities or strong safety net that he did.
moox. for a new generation.
citation needed
I'd say that most everyone, not just teens. This is a real and very significant problem. But some estimates, our country is under attack. So what are we going to do about it? Point the finger of blame? Or defend ourselves? Your choice.
No objective measurements of pain, that is the problem. I've seen people with a simple toothache report their pain a 12 on scale of 10, while those who have tombstone ST segments and in the process of dying from a myocardial infarction say their pain is a zero. It's as if pain is a subjective thing or something. How is a physician to determine just how much a patient is hurting?
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Addiction isn't a disease. It is a choice.
Stop being an idiot. Break your back in two places, go on tramadol for 5+ years along with a muscle relaxant and then come back and tell me how you live your life. Sometimes, addiction isn't just to "feel good" it's also due to circumstances beyond your control. I couldn't live the life I do without pain killers, I'm physically addicted to it. My choices are: No pain killers and live a life of incredible pain, if I didn't decide just to end it all. Or pain killers and being addicted to them until I drop dead.
If you're popping pills to "feel good" you've got a problem. The only difference between a junkie looking for the next hit and me grabbing my next pill is the life we lead.
Om, nomnomnom...
Damn Mr AC, I'm sorry to hear that.
Opiates are a lousy long term solution. Like you're observing life and not really participating, not present.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
It sounds like your understanding of brain function is woefully inadequate. Regardless of what you think you think, drugs that mimic brain chemicals (they fit the same molecular key and trigger cerebral physiological functions) will alter your behaviour, completely and totally, from simply dying on the spot as a result of the wrong combination or an excess to altered social interaction to fight or flight to sleeping to waking to everything that goes on in your head. Things that cause susceptibility an addiction of what ever chemical type are considered a disease just like any other genetic condition that is considered a disease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.... Feels good should not even be considered a proper psychological term because it is far more accurate as feels betters or feels worse because it is a relative brain chemical state and some people are simply incapable of certain socially accepted feelings because they can not achieve the brain chemical states naturally ie psychopaths have no real concept of happiness due to genetic disability and are at risk from oxycodone addiction because they lack the ability to produce those chemicals at appropriate levels at appropriate times.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
It's good that you added that to our water supply instead of taking it back to a pharmacy or a police station for proper disposal.
Addiction isn't a disease. It is a choice.
I didn't get to choose. I refused the pain medication when I was in hospital, which they entertained at first and then when the pain came on and I was moaning from it the nurse came in with a jab, announced it was time for my drugs and stuck it in my shoulder without even giving me a chance to object - then I was in la la land.
Everyone likes to "feel good". Everyone. But stop being so narcissistic thinking that you have to feel good all the time.
I think you're right, though I would put it down to naivety over narcissism. Worse than that are the people who are so terrified of being alive they have to lie to themselves and everyone else that they're happy. I think those people are susceptible to opiates. You don't feel good though, just detached. It feels wrong to me.
Life isn't supposed to be like that.
Exactly, if you find some meaning in your life then you have a chance to be happy, but there is no guarantee.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Pharmaceutical companies that do this and the doctors who enable them are absolute scum.
Good example of why the private sector needs regulation.
Thank you Dave Raggett
Physical hunger pain stops, but psychological desire to eat doesn't. I once fasted for 5 days to see if I could, and after the 2nd day or so hunger pain stopped, but I dreamed about eating. By the fourth day, I was literally drawing out pictures of the food I wanted to eat.
Life isn't "supposed to be" like anything.
Both of course.
How can you defend yourself if you don't know what is attacking you?
Proper defense necessitates "pointing the finger of blame"...aka identifying the cause of the problem.
Fortunately we already know: Pharmaceutical companies make drugs abusable on purpose and incentivize doctors to prescribe them.
Democrats have been pushing for more pharma regulations for years, Repubicans opposing them.
Republicans have fought over and over to make it easy for these abusable drugs to get FDA approval.
Oxyconin is a perfect example, read up:
"In 2006, Giuliani acted as the lead counsel and lead spokesmen for Bracewell & Giuliani client Purdue Pharma, the makers of OxyContin, during their negotiations with federal prosecutors over charges that the pharmaceutical company misled the public about OxyContin's addictive properties. The agreement reached resulted in Purdue Pharma and some of its executives paying $634.5 million in fines"
source
Thank you Dave Raggett
Alcoholic here going AC for this topic.
The only context the word "disease" appears in any of the articles is "Centers for Disease Control".
Personally I don't care if you call it a disease or not. I consider it a disorder but the AMA has considered it a disease since the 1950s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
The modern disease theory of alcoholism states that problem drinking is sometimes caused by a disease of the brain, characterized by altered brain structure and function.
The American Medical Association (AMA) declared that alcoholism was an illness in 1956. In 1991, the AMA further endorsed the dual classification of alcoholism by the International Classification of Diseases under both psychiatric and medical sections.
(emphasis mine)
And although you can find sources which argue that addiction is not a disease, you might want to consider this link too:
Why Is Alcoholism Classified As A Mental Illness?
I don't think it's a choice to be an addict, however I do make a choice whether or not to drink every day and on days that I choose not to drink I'm making the choice to be sober multiple times throughout the day.
I'm on my first drink of the day. I'm not doing it to "feel good". I'm doing it to stop shaking. I'm doing it just to feel "normal".
I can't speak for other addicts, but I'm sure I would feel a lot better overall if I did manage to quit completely. I might start feeling "good" after at least 5 drinks - Incidentally 5 drinks is considered binge drinking by many (if not most) medical professionals and is generally taken as a sign of possibly having a problem. Most drinkers I know scoff at the idea that having 5 drinks in one sitting is a problem. I know I won't feel good when I wake up whenever I wake up tomorrow.
And I'm generally depressed, but sometimes I get really depressed and being drunk and really depressed at the same time is definitely not feeling "good". In fact just knowing I get that way sometimes is a big reason I do not own a gun.
I've quit many times and withdrawal really sucks the first few days. That is quite the opposite of "feeling good".
Some recovery groups reject the disease model of addiction because like the First Step in 12 step programs it means we are "powerless" although having a disease doesn't necessarily mean you're powerless, but some people seem to use it as an excuse.
I consider myself fortunate to never have become addicted to opiates. I've never needed them long term, but I really like them. (benzos too). The benzos can really help alcohol withdrawal, but it's my understanding that a full-blown benzo addiction is no picnic either. I've never asked for them, but I've been prescribed them twice for alcohol withdrawals - both times just a week-long supply.
Usually I just go it alone at home. That is not actually recommended as alcohol withdrawal can kill you and there is something called "Kindling". (Don't try this at home.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Kindling due to substance withdrawal refers to the neurological condition which results from repeated withdrawal episodes from sedative–hypnotic drugs such as alcohol or benzodiazepines. Each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than the previous withdrawal syndrome. Individuals who have had more withdrawal episodes are at an increased risk of very severe withdrawal symptoms, up to and including seizures, and death.
So why do I keep drinking if it's so bad? I can't fully explain it but I have some ideas that I'm not even going to delve into here.
I really don't think I'm "narcissistic" either. I generally have a low self-esteem
The CIA's gotta do something with all that opium they're farming.
Don't tell anyone else but I poop into your water supply on a daily basis.
I had spinal surgery as well to repair a slipped disc in my lower back (lumbar area? Not sure on the proper English terminology) and was put on Tramadol for the pain after the surgery.
Tramadol was great. It really was. Not only did it take the pain whenever it flared up, it also helped me to think more clearly. Not just my own opinion of it, mind you, but what my family told me. I was easier to be around, pure and simple. And it didn't cloud my mind - in fact I went and took my driver's license while 'high' on painkillers.
The thing is, the pain in my back never went away, so I kept taking Tramadol. Until one Easter I miscalculated how many pills I had left, and with the doctor's office closed I ran out.
It was horrible. Just HORRIBLE. My entire lower back felt like someone was holding a branding iron against it, I was wet with sweat and could barely move for four days. But then it just ... stopped. It went from burning to throbbing to sore to 'acting up' over approximately 24 hours. I could get up from my bed again, could walk around. It was only then, after it was all over, that I realized I'd gone through withdrawal symptoms and the back pain had, for who knows how long, been the body begging for the next fix of painkillers.
Opioid addiction is not something you just notice and realize you have, because the original symptoms STAY. You take the pills because of the pain, so as long as the pain keeps coming back you keep taking the pills. It's not about choice as the GP would like to claim.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
To summarize the post I just wrote a little higher in this thread, I was on Tramadol as well with the same symptoms you describe, but accidentally ran out of pills without being able to get more. It took four-five days to get through a hell of pain and come out on the other side, but other than my back being weaker now than it was and hurting sometimes I am fine. Are you absolutely certain you need the pills still, or are you like me addicted with your body 'faking' pain to get you to take more pills?
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
You are at the cutting edge of 1880's psychological and medical practice. Really truly ignorant of science.
Are you absolutely certain you need the pills still, or are you like me addicted with your body 'faking' pain to get you to take more pills?
Absolutely, I broke my C2 and C3. If people have a well of luck, I probably used up all mine since 95% of people don't walk out of those without more severe problems(partial/complete paralysis, lack of the ability to breath, and so on), not counting the multiple years of physio. One of the guys in the physio class I was in, was in a similar spot and broke his C1 and C2 in a car accident. He'd been there 3 years, last I heard he'd gotten to the point where he could run(not well) again but he also takes pain medication. A 100mg/hydromorphone long acting, and then oxycontin for breakthrough pain. Which is pretty good for a guy they considered paralyzed for life with under a 4% of ever walking again.
I've stopped taking them before on multiple occasions at the recommendation of my neurologist. I've got two options with that, keep taking pain pills or they can do a spinal fusion and with luck? It won't paralyze me. Two neurologists and 3 neurologists specialized in spine surgery gave a 60-80% chance of partial mobility or full loss because of the splintering. Techniques get better, but as it stands? Won't risk it right now.
Tramadol isn't fun stuff, though it's nowhere near as bad as some others like hydromorphone(dilaudid). My mom is on that now because of severe nerve damage in her feet and legs, my grandmother and grandfather before for cancer.
Om, nomnomnom...
As someone who lives with extreme chronic pain after 3 failed back surgeries, I wouldn't be able to move as much as I do without pain meds. I use the Fentanyl patch 100 along with percocet 10s for break out pain. I have gone the route of no paid meds after each surgery, the longest was 6 months. Then the pain came back even worse than last time. I have also tried to go without just to see what happens, pain doesn't go away. Over the last 10 years I have been to a ton of doctors, xray, MRIs, CT scans, etc and been on and off pain meds until 5 years ago when the pain wouldn't stop no matter what anyone had me try including PT and chiropractors. I finally retired from IT work after 27 years at the age of 46. There isn't even an official term for my condition other than degenerative disc disease except I had the disc removed at l5s1 after the 3rd surgery. No one can even pin point what the issue is because this started up after a budge disc I had sudden didn't play nice after 20 years of living with it. I fell down a small set of steps when I was 20. I also suffer with restless ligament syndrome, like restless leg but my whole body flops instead of just my leg. Speaking of which I have muscle atrophy in my left calf muscle. Interest point most of my pain is in the right hip and groin area with the rest across my lower back. Most people have pain down their left leg, not me.
I have the some what unique ability go off pain meds with very little withdrawal to no problems even dealing with Oxycotin(sp). If I take too many percocets then the pain actually will increase some times.
The point is right now I would be unable to live a somewhat decent life without pain meds. I would love to be off them completely because I hate them and the side effects. Not everyone can just stop taking them. After spending two years looking for a reduction in pain and meds I'm trying a chronic pain program at the Cleveland Clinic. The Cleveland Clinic is one of the best medical centers in the US along with University Hospital. They are a hugh business in Cleveland and continue to expand at an incredible rate. Not a bad replacement for the old LTV steel mills. I sincerely hope they can work where everyone else has failed but I won't give up pain meds if it's the only way to have a ok life for my family until a cure is found.
I wanted to keep going so much. I wanted to always feel....fine! I was prescribed soooo many more pills than I actually used. Within 72 hours, I'd weaned myself off the pills because I wanted to feel like that all the time. And this was just hydrocodone; not even Oxy!
I still remember those two days, pretty clearly. Still wish I could safely live like that.
So teenagers have the same drug problems as the general population, then?
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
The approach people take on addiction has a surprising connection to their political stance. For decades, the right has been approaching addiction as a mental/moral weakness: that those succumbing to addiction are not sick or diseased but mentally weak and need to be punished so that they will correct their behavior. This is the driving force behind the 'war on drugs':
Those on the left have taken more of a medical approach and insisted that addiction is a neurochemical issue which needs to be treated by doctors.
When we actually look at research and data it turns out the truth is slightly more complex than either of these models. Turns out, it's not just about character or chemicals, but the combination of addictive chemicals and the environment the individual is in. Around 20 % of US troops in Vietnam were addicted to heroin. However, upon returning to the States, only about 5 % of them continued using. This by itself has given researchers some insight into key components of addiction and the affect environment has on it. Quoting the link above:
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
You didn't get a choice then - but there is always choice later.
Indeed. However when the doctor does not reduce your dose when you request it and says that you have to stay on these tablets for the next month, then no, you don't have a choice because if you start to withdraw and then the pain is too much you can't start taking them again unless you want to risk a heart attack.
You reduce the dose gradually until you quit from some minimum dose. That way you never get the big withdrawal problems. Any doctor can make such a plan.
This is exactly what we did. It took six agonizing weeks to withdraw to the minimum dose because even the little withdrawal problems are pretty bad. horrible stuff.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Burroughs mentioned something about the injuries that result from thrashing around on a concrete floor... incarceration in small rooms with concrete floors being a corollary of addiction.
If you suddenly withdraw alcohol from an alcoholic, they can die sitting on a sofa, so I suppose it's the sofa that killed them?
Twat.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Kurtis Mayfield's "Pusherman"started playing my head.
On slashdot, we like all drugs, except alcohol and tobacco. They're for neuro-typicals and other jocks.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Are you tired of having empty prisons? Do you need something to do since your officers cannot put people in jail for marijuana? Feel like the drug war is a losing battle? Well, welcome to the golden opportunists of opioid abuse incarceration. Just stoke the fires of a long-time medical problem, and instead of offering medical solutions for a medical problem, offer to put people in your jails. As a bonus, everyone is a suspect, and most people feel pain from time to time. Ka-ching! Watch the money start rolling in again. Soon, your officers and police, and lawyers, and judges, and bailsman will be a busy as ever.
https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
What? If you had actually read my post rthrough you'd have noticed I did no such thing but specifically pointed out that both the left and the right have been by and large wrong in their approach.
The right is wrong in saying it's all about the individual. But the left is also wrong in saying it's nothing but chemicals and can be handled with medicine alone. That was the whole point of my post, and instead of bothering to read it you stopped after 4 sentences just to rave at me for essentially agreeing with you,
Ironically enough, this is just what you yourself did by not reading through the argument that was presented.
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
But the relationship between addiction and depression is a very real one:
https://psychcentral.com/lib/d...
People stay on the most common addictive substances to keep depression at bay.
"This is the driving force behind the 'war on drugs'"
Also, gaining the legal right to steal peoples' stuff without due process.
Yesterday, in a medical conference, I was told that 75% of heroin addicts that started with oxycontin abuse never had a prescription for their oxycontin.
Different statistic, but also very different implication. And no I don't have a source to cite, sorry, but I do believe in the sincerity of the speaker, FWIW.
Why hasn't depression and addictiveness been bred out of humans thus far? Could it be that we care about others far too much?
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Yes, and the right is also traditionally more religious so these are connected.
The whole point the comment was to highlight that punishing people with jailtime for substance abuse is a non-functioning strategy for getting them to take responsibility for themselves. People use drugs for a variety of reasons, but taking addicts and putting them into what's likely even a worse environment than they're normally in and then releasing them with a criminal record that makes them integrating into society even harder is a sociologically and psychologically ineffective way of getting people out of addiction.
The idea of personal responsibility is not a bad thing at all, but the notion that personal responsibility can be instilled in people via means of imprisonment in this context is, because we know it does not work.
The war on drugs is a right wing idea. Started by Nixon. Objectively speaking it is the right wing in the US that's been promoting this approach throughout the decades and this is just a political fact. The US is far more to the right than other western nations, and the US also jails the most people for non-violent drug offenses.
Even within the US if you look at the states that've been at the forefront of legalizing weed they tend to be states controlled by democrats.
Just as involved? Huh? By what metric? Obama allowed legalization of weed on a state-by-state basis and now Trump and republicans are talking about possibly cracking down on it. I'm not saying there aren't people on the left who have equally backwards ideas of addiction and drugs as on the right, pr that there aren't libertarians on the right who agree that the war on drugs is a fool's errand and should be stopped. But in general terms it's true not just of the US but the world that right wing parties tend to favor jail sentences and other 'tough on crime' measures moreso than the left.
I'm a Finn myself, and from a US perspective we're very far to the left with out policies but our drug policies are not ideal either. We still jail people for it which I deem to be nonsensical and wrong, but the sentences are far lighter than in the US and we have better access to treatment/social programs, as a result of which we have less of a problem with drugs than say, the US.
So again: I'm not saying the left is or has been perfect, but just looking at policies from across the US and the world, the left has a better track record at the moment than the right.To ignore this is to ignore reality and claim that somehow countries outside the US with more left-leaning and liberal policies do not exist, Uruguay is the first country that's legalized the production, sale and use of cannabis entirely, and it did so in 2013 under José Mujica, a leftist president.
There's only really been 1 strategy that's been tried so far and that's essentially prohibition, which we should know by now is ineffective. It was ineffective for alcohol, and stats-wise it's just as if not more ineffective with other intoxicants.
Yes.
No. This is where it goes wrong. The only permanently effective way to combat drug violence and
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
It's ironic that we create perfectly good drinking water only to shit in it...
As a civil engineer (albeit not a wastewater one), I was thinking about this issue too. On one hand, flushing unused medicine does add to the downstream contamination. But on the other hand, even if it were used it (or its metabolites, which might be equally bad) would still end up being flushed anyway. And even then, medicines aren't the only (or even the largest) problem: there's also pesticides, detergents, etc. to deal with. this study (which, it should be noted, measured streams as opposed to treatment plant outflow, which means some pollution sources were untreated runoff) has this to say:
IMO, the only complete solution would be to change the treatment criteria on its head: currently, we only even consider treating for substances that are proven to be harmful (i.e. default-allow with a blacklist, to use a computer firewall analogy). Instead, we should switch to a default-deny policy and use better wastewater treatment techniques to remove all non-H2O chemicals from the water. The trouble is, it would be a lot more expensive.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Eh, what? I have no problem whatsoever with people diagreeing with me so long as they base their disagreement in facts. The whole reason I comment actively in places like /. is because I'm fine with discussion and open to new ideas so long as they're rationally justified.
I've been discussing different approaches to drug policies and addiction and how results from the world compare to each other. It's pretty clear in light of the evidence to me that the US modelf of jailing people for long amounts of time for non-violent drug offenses is not helping anyone, the people jailed, or the society itself. So tell me again how I'm not interested in progress and helping people?
Again, all I can say is: how does pointing out that the model currently used by the US to combat drug-addiction and crimes is ineffective at achieving results translate to 'liberalism is FAR more important than actually helping anyone."?
As I said I'm a Finn so I'm not an expert in what's going on in Chicago, but it's my understanding that the high amount of crime currently going on is connected to the drug trade, which tends to drive such organized crime. Now my proposed solution is to allow people to acquire substances legally, which would destroy the ability of organized crime to rake in billions with the drug trade, and hence would also cut down on the amount of crime related to said black market business. I am of this opinion precisely because I'd want people to be helped, so I frankly do not understand how you manage to make such inferences.
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
Check out 'covert narcissism', might help.
love is just extroverted narcissism
Depressed people don't like to feel good.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Thank you Kiuas , that was one of the most eye-opening reads I have had in a long long time.
This type of insight into behavior is can be very useful in every day life.
Yea... guess what pharmacies and police stations do?
They read the disposal instructions for the drug, which is almost always "Mix with water and flush down the drain."
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
I have always felt that pain killers should be used sparingly and that one should only take the minimum level necessary to make the pain tolerable.
For me, it wasn't about avoiding addiction. I don't like the feeling of having my mind feel cloudy.
When I had my wisdom teeth removed, the doctor gave me a prescription for Lortab. I declined to fill it. I said that if Tylenol or Aleve made it tolerable, that's what I would use. Even though I had already made my decision, when a friend offered to buy them from me, I was even more certain that I made the right choice.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Addiction can happen even when the drugs are taken exactly as prescribed.
Yes, and it's quite common for physicians to prescribe drugs improperly. For example, giving people benzodiazepines for longer than two to four weeks, or for non-FDA approved off-label use.
I have also heard horror stories about patients who do develop addictions being cut-off cold turkey when they inform their physician and not being allowed to taper properly. To make matters worse sometimes physicians dismiss withdrawal symptoms from drugs as not being due to the drug, but because of the condition or disease the person supposedly has.
fact is opiates are the safest and most effective pain relieving and antipsychotic drugs we know. It is society's retarded desire to push this demand on to the black market that makes them so dangerous
The safety profile really should be emphasized. Too many people think it's the drug itself that is so dangerous when in fact the danger is due to having to purchase on the black market where you don't know the potency, don't know if it's the drug you want (lots of people substitute fentanyl these days) and don't know if it's been adulterated. If people could just buy some dope at the local pharmacy we wouldn't have as many dying from it, although people do still manage to overdose on pharmaceuticals like Oxycontin.
Prescribing off-label is not necessarily a problem. The FDA is not the end-all of drug uses. However, it is wrong and even dangerous to simply cut a patient off rather than tapering them down. Some of that though is caused by fears of the DEA. Some is just not good practice.
Some people are simply between a rock and a hard place when it comes to pain and pain relief. Trying to walk the thin line between tolerable pain and tolerable side effects is more art than science. Sometimes, even the best answer isn't a GOOD answer, it's just least bad.
And I truly feel for you.
I get the impression you mistake my post for essentially saying "Man up and get off the meds, I did and it worked out well!" All I wanted to point out was that sometimes, from personal experience, it's just a few days of utter and complete pain hell to get out on the other side. I had no one who told me that.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Um... how can this be true:
"Most American teenagers who abuse opioid drugs first received the drugs from a doctor,... and the majority of them had been prescribed opioids previously, the researchers found"
and later the pediatric report said:
"of all 188,468 prescription opioid exposures reported for youth under 20, [most] occurred among children under 5, [who got] the medication because it was improperly stored or was in a purse".
Has anyone else noticed the increase in bogus new releases, that don't jive with established facts. The above says most teen abusers got them for medical reasons from a doctor -- AND the 2nd part says most (60%) were under 5 and *took* (stole) them from someone else who was taking the medicine.
You can't claim most abusers are getting them for medical reasons and then claim that 60% are stealing them.
It is true that an adequate environment and rewarding life helps to break the addiction cycle, but that doesn't mean there is no medical aspect to addiction.
I've seen people sing the praises of tramadol but I can only take it when all other options fail.
It's one of those very weird drugs that has a lot of swing compared to other painkillers without a doubt. Two people I bump into occasionally at the local pain clinic have real problems with it, one of them takes 20mg/night for zolpidem to get them to sleep. Even then they only manage 5-7hrs, it's one of those drugs that wouldn't surprise me a decade from now where there's a class-action lawsuit over.
Om, nomnomnom...
Nope, didn't sound like that to me at all so no worries. Rather your personal experience with tramadol and pain killers. I mentioned to a AC that a couple of people I've run into at the local pain clinic has serious problems with the stuff, one takes 20mg of zolpidem so they can sleep because tramadol keeps them awake until their body hit's that magical exhaustion point(usually 4 days or so). The thing is doctors expect people to not abuse drugs, it's not that simple of course. A lot of problems with things like this could probably be fixed if people knew how easy it is to get addicted to them, how bad it can be when you come off of them too.
Om, nomnomnom...
But the left is also wrong in saying it's nothing but chemicals and can be handled with medicine alone.
Disease metaphor is rather useful here. A lot of those can't be cured, only managed. For example, a person can have asthma and not even know about it, if they live in an environment which lacks the triggers, like pollution, allergens or humidity. If changing an environment is not an option, medication is.
Perhaps I am reading different liberal media, but I haven't seen a viewpoint that treats addiction as easely solvable by medication first and only. Can you point out your sources? I really would like to see them.
Back when I was having serious pain issues, m MD prescribed me Tramadol. You know what it did? NOTHING that I could tell anyway. Had no effect on me
-- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
The late 1980s and early 1990s was a time of huge scare campaigns over pain medications and the rise of Oxycontin becoming a drug problem. Suddenly, it was almost impossible to get a prescription for pain medication. People in a cast with a broken leg were given Tylenol for the pain. In some states they were flagging physicians for a review board if they wrote more than six prescriptions for pain killers a month. By the end of their time slice, 2013, some sanity had come back into the attitudes on pain medications.
Regrettably, the scare tactics of the cited article is trying to bring back the bugaboo of prescription pain killers. Shoot, today many employers refuse to allow workers to work if they are taking Tramodol. Tramodol is a synthetic developed to have the pain relief for arthritis like codeine while being unable to get high and without the side effects of drowsiness codeine causes. But, being an "opiate agonizer" has that nasty opiate word in it and you are considered unsafe to work while taking such a prescription.
Opiates feel nice to many. After surgery or extreme trauma nothing works as well as the opiates for pain relief. Opiates can be abused. Opiates come from a plant you can grow and there is a gigantic black market for them. But you bloody well can't equate getting a prescription for opiates after a broken leg, surgery, tooth removal, etc. with becoming dependent on a chemical high and ending up a heroine addict.
NRRPT/RCT
Addiction is not a choice, by definition.
The difference between an addiction and a simple habit is that you can't overcome the former without some kind of treatment. Maybe putting yourself in that mess was originally a choice but staying an addict isn't.
Your postings are just poorly masked "if you disagree with me you are an evil bigot".
He wasn't disagreeing, just pointing out facts that any objective observer would note.
Its people like you that prevent real progress from happening because it is more important to you to be liberal than to actually help people. That ends up with hundreds of people being killed in Chicago violence every year and nothing done because Chicago is already "liberal" and "doing the right thing". So you just let mass murder continue because liberalism is FAR more important than actually helping anyone.
No no no. It's people like YOU who prevent real progress. When you hear something you don't like that doesn't fit perfectly into your worldview, it's easier to dismiss it than face the possibility you might have been wrong. Instead of trying to refute his arguments and present sound arguments of your own, you toss his opinions away in the blink of an eye and attack his character. Then you go about bringing up an unrelated topic to general drug use (gun violence in Chicago) as a way of ... what? What were you even trying to do here? It appears you didn't really have a clear rebuttal in place but just let your emotions get the best of you.
If you REALLY want progress, fight back with some logic instead of all emotion.