Slashdot Mirror


Uber Manager Told Female Engineer That 'Sexism is Systemic in Tech' (theguardian.com)

Sam Levin, writing for The Guardian: Uber is facing yet another discrimination scandal after a manager who was recruiting a female engineer defended the company by saying "sexism is systemic in tech." On 14 March, an engineering manager at Uber tried to recruit Kamilah Taylor, a senior software engineer at another Silicon Valley company, for a developer position at the San Francisco ride-hailing startup, which is struggling to recover from a major sexual harassment controversy. Taylor, who provided copies of her LinkedIn messages with the Guardian, responded by saying: "In light of Uber's questionable business practices and sexism, I have no interest in joining." Taylor was stunned by the reply she received from Uber. The manager, who is a woman, wrote: "I understand your concern. I just want to say that sexism is systemic in tech and other industries. I've met some of the most inspiring people here."

38 of 272 comments (clear)

  1. Hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That sounds like the recruiter is agreeing/commiserating with her. Nothing to see here?

    1. Re:Hmmm... by gfxguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Agreed.... did not sound like she was justifying it, just making a (sadly) honest statement. What she was saying was that there are good people at Uber, which I'm sure is also true. It's a big company, there will be #@holes and there will be good people.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    2. Re:Hmmm... by pipingguy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, this story is odd... almost if the "scandal" is ginned-up so as to generate Yet Another Story Of Workplace Sexism And Why Something MUST BE DONE NOW (And BTW, Trump Grabs Pussies).

      It's just one more "Raising Awareness Moment" rammed into the eyeballs of the reader. Or a attempt to threaten a lawsuit and then settle.

    3. Re:Hmmm... by sexconker · · Score: 2

      The manager, who is a woman, wrote: "I understand your concern. I just want to say that sexism is systemic in tech and other industries. I've met some of the most inspiring people here."

    4. Re:Hmmm... by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      The issue is location Sexism in tech is far prevalent in the West then in the East. The problem is all the big name tech companies are based in the West, while the normal established boring tech companies are in the East. However working tech in the east you see a higher percentage of female working tech. In my departments the ratio is 50/50 male to female (granted it is higher than normal), and the higher level positions in my department are male. In the East coast there is sexism in tech, but it isn't as bad as the west coast. I think it may be due to most of the tech jobs centered around long time established companies with older employees, who are married and have children, and are less invested in looking at the opposite sex as something relieve their primal instincts.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:Hmmm... by tomhath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      did not sound like she was justifying it, just making a (sadly) honest statement.

      True. But the problem is that she didn't rebuke what's happened; she just said "Deal with it."

    6. Re:Hmmm... by HeckRuler · · Score: 2

      Eh, more like

      In other words: "You aren't going to find anything better, everyone else is just as bad. There's some good people here."

      But at this point we're really sticking words in her mouth.

    7. Re:Hmmm... by mutantSushi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The woman was not an "applicant"... She was actively RECRUITED by Uber thru LinkedIn. The woman ALREADY STATED she wasn't interested in working at Uber because of it's reputation.
      IMHO, at that point, the woman has turned down the job offer herself, so the job application is over. So what the HR manager says after that is irrelevant to discrimination claim.

      Now maybe that's not the IDEAL statement to make or stance to project, but it's not job discrimination.
      There are laws against ACTUAL job discrimination, not laws against statements which don't maximally promote the official ideology.
      Companies which fall in latter category are highly likely to also violate the actual law, but such cases must be proven on their own merits by victims with actual standing re: specific law.

      That said, don't use Uber, folks. For many other reasons as well.

  2. The HR Manager, who like 76% of HRMs is female by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The HR Manager, who like 76% of HRMs in the US is female, said "sexism is systemic".

    You got that right.

    1. Re:The HR Manager, who like 76% of HRMs is female by pipingguy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yabbut, we need equal representation in desirable jobs, not in hole-diggers, shit picker-uppers, elephant nose cleaners and HRMs.

  3. Please stop by Iamthecheese · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Please stop putting a "sexism in tech" story on the front page. three times a week. Please! I know you get more clicks and ad views but I beg you not to descend to that level. It's all been said. Every possible part of this debate has been had. Dozens of times. Enough is enough. Gut check: Are you ready to become a Gawker in your quest for shareholder value? I love Slashdot and I don't want to see it go down that road. Down the path to posting more inflammatory posts for clicks or worse, to push a narrative. Don't do this to me. Don't do this to yourself. You're better than this.

    --
    If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
    1. Re:Please stop by Rastl · · Score: 2

      Please stop putting a "sexism in tech" story on the front page.

      It's a major problem in technology that really needs to be addressed if this country is going to be competitive in the future. It's unfortunate that it's so inflammatory, but it needs to be addressed.

      Correct. It needs to be addressed. And putting it on the front page of tech sites keeps it from getting pushed to the side like it has been for far too long.

      That HR manager was trying to persuade the engineer that she wasn't going to find a company that wasn't sexist so she should take the job at Uber. At least they're honest about being sexist right?

      I've been in corporate IT for 25 years. I'm female. Things have changed over the decades but there's still sexism in the hard tech areas. Women have risen in testing, QA, BI reporting, BA, etc. but for the heads-down work it's a struggle.

    2. Re: Please stop by cyber-vandal · · Score: 2

      It's our fault because the Patriarchy is a hive mind that all men are connected to from birth.

  4. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Please stop putting a "sexism in tech" story on the front page. three times a week.

    Why? Are you a snowflake? Were you triggered? Do you need a safe space where you don't have to see any articles that are offensive to you?

  5. Re:What's the full story? by OffaMyLawn · · Score: 2

    This is pretty much what I was thinking as well after reading TFA. Tried clicking around to see if maybe it just clipped it off in the summary, but that's all that was posted of the conversation.

    Though I'm not entirely sure it would necessarily help Uber's image at this point, it would at least be nice to know the remainder of the message. If nothing else so I could know how angry I'm supposed to be.

  6. Uber issue, not a tech issue by slasher999 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've been in IT for nearly 25 years and I've always worked shoulder to shoulder with women and men alike. Uber has an HR and a culture issue. This isn't a widespread tech industry issue.

    1. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your anecdote isn't data. It's nice that you've worked for progressive companies and that you yourself are good about working with women, but it's absolutely a systemic issue. Story after story after story confirms it.

      Rather, I think you and the companies you work for are outliers. Congratulations on that; I hope you keep your streak.

    2. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      I've been in IT for nearly 25 years and I've always worked shoulder to shoulder with women and men alike. Uber has an HR and a culture issue. This isn't a widespread tech industry issue.

      WTF? Your anecdote if it's even true is well and truly out of the ordinary for the tech industry. You don't even need to look to the industry why, you can see why just be peeking into a university IT lecture.

      Kudos to you and your workplace for having gender equality. But that is far from the norm.

    3. Re: Uber issue, not a tech issue by slasher999 · · Score: 2

      I've worked for just as many big companies as small mom and pop shops. Maybe it's just a north east / mid-atlantic thing, but this has never been an issue here. I'm sure there is anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

    4. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by computational+super · · Score: 2

      Your anecdote isn't data. ... it's absolutely a systemic issue. anecdote after anecdote confirms it.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    5. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by dave562 · · Score: 2

      As many others have said, your experience is not the norm. I have been doing IT since 1996. I have worked with one female sysadmin and two female DBAs. Other than that, most of the women in "IT" have all been in PM and other non-technical roles.

      My current company employees ~5000 people. Our CEO and General Counsel are women, in addition to countless Managing Directors. We have equality programs up the wazoo, including for LGBT and every race except us "white" people. We are not a tech company per se, but are fairly representative of "Corporate America" in many ways.

  7. Because you say so? by s.petry · · Score: 4, Interesting

    0.70c on the dollar has been debunked over and over again. Discrimination in the workplace has been illegal since I was a kid in the 70s. This includes discrimination against women. Currently 64% of all Doctorates, 61% of all Masters degrees, 58% of all Bachelors, and 57% of all Associated degrees go to women. Women are more likely to get hired for a job when put against a man with the same credentials, and even higher when you compare ethnicity. A Hispanic/Black woman will be hired 80% of the time over a Hispanic/Black male. Women have more scholarships, higher rate of approvals for education grants, and higher rate of student loans. Non Whites have the same advantages. The only people getting "screwed" by the system currently are white males. The rest is a fabrication based on repeated propaganda (lies).

    Do a web search for stats yourself, I'm tired of providing citations. People with agenda will deny they exist regardless, and if you are curious they are easy enough to find.

    Sadly, this has made it a place where people no longer believe real issues. When everything is an "ism", nothing is an "ism".

    The country is not going to be competitive in the future because identity politics is isolating people into fact averse gangs, each using their own type of thuggery to get "theirs".

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Because you say so? by OhPlz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And men are under representing in nursing and child care.. so what? People are going to choose career paths that interest them. Not being 50/50 is not evidence of a problem.

    2. Re:Because you say so? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Except usually Men in nursing and child care are welcomed openly in the work place, at least in the city I live in. It's not the same in the tech industry... hence the complaints.

    3. Re:Because you say so? by computational+super · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, I take any accusation of "sexism" from a woman with a grain of salt. They often aren't even referring to anything especially serious, even in their minds - they might overhear a co-worker complain about his nagging wife, or hear somebody say "manpower" instead of "person power" and think, "welp, there goes that 'workplace sexism' again". To too many women, sexism just means "anything I don't like".

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    4. Re:Because you say so? by slew · · Score: 2

      0.70c on the dollar has been debunked over and over again.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      The thing that struck home is a survey of STEM new grads, that shows a ~0.7 disparity as well. Seems like that's the most apples to apples comparison there could be, before things like family and work home balance start to factor in.

      I guess she could be lying about all of her data though.

      Interesting that she did note the observed effect of "devaluation" (as more women move into the field, both the wage discrepancy *AND* the wages decrease). Presumably this is similar to the effect of right-to-work law changes on union jobs strongholds, right? Which is not really that different than the H1b discussion.

      I'm not trying justifying discrimination, but just observing that apparently the laws of economics don't give a rats ass about what basis discrimination occurs. Discrimination will help some and hurts others, but if the goal is to end discrimination, then to help others, you must hurt some. The net economic result may be higher, but probably not high enough so in the end somebody has to lose... Generally, some of those won't want to lose, so expect friction. Hopefully this is obvious.

    5. Re:Because you say so? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      The women who choose software engineering as a career path are consistently saying that it's a problem.

      Can you cite any evidence that more women engineers file gender discrimination or sexual harassment complaints than the average for other professions?

      Anecdote: In my company, we have had several sexual harassment complaints about our shipping dept and our sales dept, but zero about any of our engineers.

    6. Re:Because you say so? by s.petry · · Score: 2

      Discrimination in the workplace has been illegal since I was a kid in the 70s. This includes discrimination against women.

      Oh I see, it's illegal so it doesn't ever happen. That's why I also never see anyone going over the speed limit. True story.

      What a moronic statement. What It means that there should be plenty of court cases proving that discrimination exists if it was true. You see, those cases with guilty verdicts would be something we call facts. Facts are used to form valid opinions, and of course debate a position. The more fact you have, the better your opinion and the better one can debate their position.

      In the case of people speeding, we do have these things called facts. Millions upon millions of tickets are on record proving that speeding happens. Do you notice the difference between Speeding tickets and Sexual harassment in the STEM workplace? I agree it would be harder to prove sexual harassment, but people like you who claim it's so common should be able to easily justify your opinion with a reasonable number of _facts_. Those would be guilty verdicts in discrimination cases.

      It is quite remarkable that you believe, without any facts, that nasty men are all out to abuse women in the workplace. Even worse, when asked to present facts you hide, and ignore any fact that runs contrary to your fantasy. Sane people work differently. When presented with facts they perform research and adjust their opinions based on new information.

      People like you walk around claiming that reality is false and your fantasy is reality. The more people like you I read the more I am amazed at how prophetic Ayn Rand was with "Atlas Shrugged". No, you never read it so don't bother with more lies. Yes, I was correct stating that you were not sane. (unless you are a shill being paid to spread the delusion, which I highly doubt.)

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  8. Sexism is systematic in tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've worked in technology for a few years. When I was a floor technician assembling stuff Sexism was less pervasive since there was more gender equality.

    When I shifted to IT (network / system admin) it was 99% guys and was quite shocked how nerds could have such filthy mouths and that a lot of the guys had a bizzare nerd bravado I never experienced until entering IT.

    More women need to be in hand on tech roles and stop going into sales, client relations, office administration, etc.... When entering the tech industry.

    Until then nerd bravado Sexism will remain pervasive.

    An easy temp gap fix would be to put these guys back into the sub basement where their conversations can't be overheard anymore. :)

  9. Re:Telling the truth is fatal by avandesande · · Score: 2

    That's been my experience. It's mostly an issue with 'bro startups' in silicon valley that make the news, nobody cares about the small boring businesses that make up the majority of IT. Also at my current job the majority of my co-workers are women including my boss. I suspect things would not end well if I said or did something stupid along that vein....

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  10. Prove it! by s.petry · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Women _CHOOSING_ not to obtain a degree in Software is the problem. That is not sexism, that is a fact with statistics to back the fact. Women are getting far more degrees than men, but are choosing degrees in Psychology, Medical Doctors, Law, Political Science, Journalism, and other fields not related to Software.

    Prove to us that you are correct, show me the College discrimination that keeps women away from STEM. I searched, there is no such thing as institutional sexism in College prohibiting women from obtaining a degree related to software. In fact it is quite the opposite. Universities are begging for women to obtain STEM degrees, as is society, as are employers.

    Next, prove that degrees don't matter. I have a Mathematics degree. Is the fact that I can't get a job as a MRI specialist or BioChemist related to the fact that I'm being discriminated against, or my _CHOICE_ in degrees? A Law degree does not provide any credentials for STEM.

    Lastly, prove to me that women are choosing other fields due to discriminatory aptitude tests which give a lower score to women because "sexism". Aptitude testing is the number one factor for determining a degree choice.

    You can't prove any of those things. Go ahead and try to back your allegation with _FACTS_. Something you SJWs seem to despise with a passion.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Prove it! by s.petry · · Score: 2

      "Any more" is a complete misnomer. When people claim the "good ole days" they neglect the fact that most women were busy at home raising families. The majority could not afford to work, or could not afford to work full time. Single and wealthy women worked full time, not usually women with families.

      The State was not the primary path for raising kids in the 70s and early 80s, parents were. Due to both social pressure to put women into the workplace and another fine program pushing self happiness as the number one consideration in your actions (both social engineering) that is no longer true. A majority of people today are being raised by the State, but that's not the same as the good ole days you claim was so great.

      There are countless factors involved in people's choices of careers, and society has changed drastically since the 70s and 80s.

      So what is your expectation in an answer? Nothing you could provide as a rational explanation is simple. Meaning, the simple explanation of sexism is also wrong.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    2. Re:Prove it! by jader3rd · · Score: 2

      Why do women choose not to do tech degrees any more? Those courses used to be more popular in the 70s and 80s. The must be a reason.

      Because once the computer became personal computer (instead of a main frame), very socially awkward people (predominantly male) fell in love with them. The women would look around, see handful of class mates absolutely in love with these computer things and then felt out of place because they were not as passionate about computers/programming as these other guys. Since they felt out of place they left to a field where they could feel roughly as passionate about it as their peers.

      Other men in the classes wouldn't be doing the "reading between the lines", in comparing themselves to the in-love-with-computers students, and didn't self select themselves out of the classes. Those men just weren't socially sensitive enough, in the way that the women were.

  11. What's wrong? by Bodhammer · · Score: 3, Funny

    "What's wrong with being sexy?"
    -Nigel Tufnel

    --
    "I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
  12. More bullshit by s.petry · · Score: 2, Informative

    Nearly 80% of the field is women. Men report being ridiculed by both patients and their female coworkers. Since women practice hypergamy men are not seen as much more than dating toys by most women in the field. Citations can easily be found.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  13. BS by s.petry · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Your second and third sentences have no basis in reality. There was a massive push to social welfare programs to assist women with College in the later 80s and 90s. This includes assistance with child care so that Single Moms (a massively grown demographic) could go to College and not worry about their kids. Hence the disparity we have today which has 61% of all College students being women. You can't be so delusional that you believe moving women up to 61% of all college students is the result of a year, or even a few years. Then again, it seems like you really can be that delusional.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  14. Re: The obvious by PoopJuggler · · Score: 2

    Sexism is more than just avoiding candidates based on gender.

  15. Re:The obvious by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 2

    The woman was not an "applicant"... She was actively RECRUITED by Uber thru LinkedIn.

    Doesn't that fact actually discount a large portion of the current claims of sexism?

    Only if both things were mutually exclusive. They are not. Welcome to logic 101.