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Uber Manager Told Female Engineer That 'Sexism is Systemic in Tech' (theguardian.com)

Posted by msmash on from the here-we-go-again dept.

Sam Levin, writing for The Guardian: Uber is facing yet another discrimination scandal after a manager who was recruiting a female engineer defended the company by saying "sexism is systemic in tech." On 14 March, an engineering manager at Uber tried to recruit Kamilah Taylor, a senior software engineer at another Silicon Valley company, for a developer position at the San Francisco ride-hailing startup, which is struggling to recover from a major sexual harassment controversy. Taylor, who provided copies of her LinkedIn messages with the Guardian, responded by saying: "In light of Uber's questionable business practices and sexism, I have no interest in joining." Taylor was stunned by the reply she received from Uber. The manager, who is a woman, wrote: "I understand your concern. I just want to say that sexism is systemic in tech and other industries. I've met some of the most inspiring people here."

162 of 272 comments (clear)

  1. Hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That sounds like the recruiter is agreeing/commiserating with her. Nothing to see here?

    1. Re:Hmmm... by gfxguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Agreed.... did not sound like she was justifying it, just making a (sadly) honest statement. What she was saying was that there are good people at Uber, which I'm sure is also true. It's a big company, there will be #@holes and there will be good people.

      --
      Stupid sexy Flanders.
    2. Re:Hmmm... by pipingguy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, this story is odd... almost if the "scandal" is ginned-up so as to generate Yet Another Story Of Workplace Sexism And Why Something MUST BE DONE NOW (And BTW, Trump Grabs Pussies).

      It's just one more "Raising Awareness Moment" rammed into the eyeballs of the reader. Or a attempt to threaten a lawsuit and then settle.

    3. Re:Hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Completely unprofessional for a hiring manager to say to an applicant however.

    4. Re:Hmmm... by sexconker · · Score: 2

      The manager, who is a woman, wrote: "I understand your concern. I just want to say that sexism is systemic in tech and other industries. I've met some of the most inspiring people here."

    5. Re:Hmmm... by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      The issue is location Sexism in tech is far prevalent in the West then in the East. The problem is all the big name tech companies are based in the West, while the normal established boring tech companies are in the East. However working tech in the east you see a higher percentage of female working tech. In my departments the ratio is 50/50 male to female (granted it is higher than normal), and the higher level positions in my department are male. In the East coast there is sexism in tech, but it isn't as bad as the west coast. I think it may be due to most of the tech jobs centered around long time established companies with older employees, who are married and have children, and are less invested in looking at the opposite sex as something relieve their primal instincts.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    6. Re:Hmmm... by tomhath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      did not sound like she was justifying it, just making a (sadly) honest statement.

      True. But the problem is that she didn't rebuke what's happened; she just said "Deal with it."

    7. Re: Hmmm... by PoopJuggler · · Score: 1

      Can't expect people to even RTFS these days.

    8. Re: Hmmm... by PoopJuggler · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. Without an audio recording of the entire actual conversation it's hard to determine the context.

    9. Re: Hmmm... by PoopJuggler · · Score: 1

      Sorry, transcript.

    10. Re:Hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Did she? Where did she say "Deal with it."

    11. Re:Hmmm... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It's notable because people on Slashdot keep saying that there is me sexism in tech and that complaints about Uber might be fake.

      Sadly this is the stage of the debate we are at.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    12. Re: Hmmm... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      pretty soon they will stop even reading the title. thats gonna be fun.

    13. Re:Hmmm... by TWX · · Score: 1

      I think it may be due to most of the tech jobs centered around long time established companies with older employees, who are married and have children, and are less invested in looking at the opposite sex as something relieve their primal instincts.

      This does not agree with what I've seen. I've been to training classes and to conferences in addition to my own workplace, and the vast majority of men in tech are married, and they act like thirteen year old boys fictionally bragging about fictional exploits and talking about various women and what they would like to do to or with them in their own fantasy worlds. They do not generally do this in front of women, but they do it plenty when women aren't around, and it's much worse in the conference setting once everyone has had a few.

      The vast majority of these men are harmless, they literally do resemble 13 year old boys entering puberty ranting about girls while having no experience with them, but that doesn't mean that there aren't a couple in the crowd that might justify some concern.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    14. Re:Hmmm... by tomhath · · Score: 1

      I just want to say that sexism is systemic in tech and other industries. I've met some of the most inspiring people here."

      In other words: "Deal with it"

    15. Re:Hmmm... by HeckRuler · · Score: 2

      Eh, more like

      In other words: "You aren't going to find anything better, everyone else is just as bad. There's some good people here."

      But at this point we're really sticking words in her mouth.

    16. Re:Hmmm... by mutantSushi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The woman was not an "applicant"... She was actively RECRUITED by Uber thru LinkedIn. The woman ALREADY STATED she wasn't interested in working at Uber because of it's reputation.
      IMHO, at that point, the woman has turned down the job offer herself, so the job application is over. So what the HR manager says after that is irrelevant to discrimination claim.

      Now maybe that's not the IDEAL statement to make or stance to project, but it's not job discrimination.
      There are laws against ACTUAL job discrimination, not laws against statements which don't maximally promote the official ideology.
      Companies which fall in latter category are highly likely to also violate the actual law, but such cases must be proven on their own merits by victims with actual standing re: specific law.

      That said, don't use Uber, folks. For many other reasons as well.

    17. Re:Hmmm... by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      yeah, "Deal with it".

    18. Re: Hmmm... by Entrope · · Score: 1

      As a broad description, the manager is probably right, but not every tech-oriented company mistreats women. Sexism need not, and should not, be endemic in the high tech industry or any high tech company.

    19. Re:Hmmm... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      In other words: "You aren't going to find anything better, everyone else is just as bad.

      But she didn't say that. She never said it was "just as bad" everywhere/anywhere else, she just said it is common in tech.

      Anyway, I think sexism is common in the tech industry only in the vacuous sense that it is common in all industries. I have seen zero evidence that tech companies are more sexist than construction companies, manufacturing companies, law firms, etc.

    20. Re: Hmmm... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      The titles are usually clickbait, and you know more about the subject before you read it.

      If you subconsciously believed 2% of it, now you've polluted your input stream!

      Never read the title. Never.

    21. Re: Hmmm... by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      Yea what you said, We dont want their P Stream!

    22. Re: Hmmm... by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      Sorry, transcript.

      My thoughts exactly. The recruiter might have been commiserating, and God knows how awful being in such a position is (being a women herself and all.)

      But it was a mistake. She could have said something different, like "We are working on it, we are changing, we need people like you and by the way, despite everything, we have some wonderful people ready and capable to implement change. Please don't throw us all under the bus."

      I don't think there was any malice or cruelty, just a lack of common sense.

      Exhaustion of having to deal with candidate rejections because of sexism? The recruiter is human too.

    23. Re:Hmmm... by james_gnz · · Score: 1

      If sexism is systemic in tech, how can women avoid dealing with it? What's the alternative? I think you're shooting the messenger here. If I said anti-Semitism was systemic in Nazi Germany, would you call me racist? (It seems about time to invoke Godwin's law.)

    24. Re: Hmmm... by thundercattt · · Score: 1

      Why is it only the tech industry that is battered about"sexism" or "lack of women". Why not other male dominated fields like ditch digger or septic tank sucker.

    25. Re:Hmmm... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      If you want me to suspend my comprehension of the English language in order to leave more room for nonsense, I'm not going to do it.

      And if you said the word "nazi" in your comment, when we're not even talking about anything relating to WWII, I'd know you're a troll with no interest in communication. So that explains why you're engaging in moralizing even in response to discussion of what words mean. Because you're not attempting communication, so the words don't matter to you. Noted.

    26. Re: Hmmm... by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      That is simple. Women don't want jobs that are dangerous or dirty, they just want a piece of that sweet tech pie without putting in any effort to earn it. They use false claims of sexism as extortion to get those jobs handed to them even if they are not competent in the field. When they are done with that part they claim unequal pay, even though the men who are being paid more are working longer hours and have significantly more output than them so that they can get the raises they don't deserve.

      Yes, there are exceptions, I've met a few of them. They, however, are not the ones who claim sexism and unequal pay. They get legitimate raises and promotions and are a pleasure to work with.

    27. Re: Hmmm... by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      This isn't gendered.

      But the response is always gendered.
      If a woman harasses a man for months after being told to stop she will only get a warning from her boss.
      If a man says hello to a woman a time or two and she deems him unworthy of speaking to her, then he will be fired before the day is over.

    28. Re:Hmmm... by james_gnz · · Score: 1

      If I said anti-Semitism was systemic in Nazi Germany, would you call me racist?

      if you said the word "nazi" in your comment, when we're not even talking about anything relating to WWII, I'd know you're a troll

      I suppose that's usually a fair assumption. My reasoning was that we are talking about a situation in which someone is alleging prejudice is widespread, and I wanted to draw an analogy with a situation in which it is accepted that prejudice is widespread, in order to question whether someone who alleges prejudice is widespread is necessarily themselves prejudiced. Nazi Germany is the first thing that sprung to mind as a situation in which it is accepted that prejudice is widespread. I guess I should have thought for a bit longer, and come up with another analogy. I'll do that now: If I said mice generally dislike cats, would you say I dislike cats? To me, it doesn't follow at all. I can believe (rightly or wrongly) that other people hold a view, and state that I believe other people hold a view, without holding that view myself.

  2. The HR Manager, who like 76% of HRMs is female by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    The HR Manager, who like 76% of HRMs in the US is female, said "sexism is systemic".

    You got that right.

    1. Re:The HR Manager, who like 76% of HRMs is female by pipingguy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yabbut, we need equal representation in desirable jobs, not in hole-diggers, shit picker-uppers, elephant nose cleaners and HRMs.

    2. Re:The HR Manager, who like 76% of HRMs is female by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of a few back I was starting a new job. After the HR intake person told us all about the corporate equality policy and zero tolerance against sexual harrassment, etc, we moved on to the medical plan sign up. She said, with no irony, "men don't seem to understand this medical plan very well, so I'm going to explain it slowly..."

    3. Re:The HR Manager, who like 76% of HRMs is female by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Yabbut, we need equal representation in desirable jobs, not in hole-diggers, shit picker-uppers, elephant nose cleaners and HRMs.

      You mean how men are over represented in the low-paying, long hours, really shitty nursing sector.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  3. Please stop by Iamthecheese · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Please stop putting a "sexism in tech" story on the front page. three times a week. Please! I know you get more clicks and ad views but I beg you not to descend to that level. It's all been said. Every possible part of this debate has been had. Dozens of times. Enough is enough. Gut check: Are you ready to become a Gawker in your quest for shareholder value? I love Slashdot and I don't want to see it go down that road. Down the path to posting more inflammatory posts for clicks or worse, to push a narrative. Don't do this to me. Don't do this to yourself. You're better than this.

    --
    If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
    1. Re:Please stop by speedplane · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Please stop putting a "sexism in tech" story on the front page.

      It's a major problem in technology that really needs to be addressed if this country is going to be competitive in the future. It's unfortunate that it's so inflammatory, but it needs to be addressed.

      --
      Fast Federal Court and I.T.C. updates
    2. Re:Please stop by chispito · · Score: 1

      Please stop putting a "sexism in tech" story on the front page.

      It's a major problem in technology that really needs to be addressed if this country is going to be competitive in the future. It's unfortunate that it's so inflammatory, but it needs to be addressed.

      I think the manager was agreeing with you, so I don't really see the story here.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    3. Re:Please stop by Rastl · · Score: 2

      Please stop putting a "sexism in tech" story on the front page.

      It's a major problem in technology that really needs to be addressed if this country is going to be competitive in the future. It's unfortunate that it's so inflammatory, but it needs to be addressed.

      Correct. It needs to be addressed. And putting it on the front page of tech sites keeps it from getting pushed to the side like it has been for far too long.

      That HR manager was trying to persuade the engineer that she wasn't going to find a company that wasn't sexist so she should take the job at Uber. At least they're honest about being sexist right?

      I've been in corporate IT for 25 years. I'm female. Things have changed over the decades but there's still sexism in the hard tech areas. Women have risen in testing, QA, BI reporting, BA, etc. but for the heads-down work it's a struggle.

    4. Re:Please stop by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      The "problem" is that women, on average, aren't as interested in tech as men.

    5. Re:Please stop by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      Please stop putting a "sexism in tech" story on the front page.

      It's a major problem in technology that really needs to be addressed if this country is going to be competitive in the future.

      I would like to point out that sexism in Southeast Asia is significantly higher than in the US. Sexism has nothing to do with why jobs are being outsourced.

      It's unfortunate that it's so inflammatory, but it needs to be addressed.

      I believe it's become inflammatory because men keep being told that it's their fault when another man is sexist. I do not tolerate sexist behavior and being told it's my fault is very frustrating because the reality is that it's an HR and management failure.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    6. Re: Please stop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A lot of the Uber scandal (minus the sexual harassment) has happened to me. Bullied by a someone more senior than me. Management refused to deal because he's a star. Bullied more. Wanted to move teams. Not allowed. Complained to HR. Went through the motions but nothing happened. Bullying continued. Told it was my fault due to my bad attitude. Ended up having a breakdown. I didn't see any of my white heterosexual male privilege in that role. I wonder how much of the sexism in IT is just plain bullying like I experienced.

    7. Re: Please stop by cyber-vandal · · Score: 2

      It's our fault because the Patriarchy is a hive mind that all men are connected to from birth.

    8. Re:Please stop by rmullig2 · · Score: 1

      Need to get my outrage fix for the week.

    9. Re:Please stop by Baloroth · · Score: 1

      Correct. It needs to be addressed. And putting it on the front page of tech sites keeps it from getting pushed to the side like it has been for far too long.

      Or putting it front and center on tech sites might cause women who would otherwise be interested in going into tech fields to avoid them, because they don't want to go into a field where they think they will be discriminated against, thus leading to fewer women in such fields, thus leading to more accusations of sexism in those fields, and so on the circle goes. If I was a cynic (well, more of a cynic), I might even think that all these "tech is sexist!" stories are deliberately intended to keep women away from STEM, so that the appearance of sexism can continuously be used as a drum to rally political support. But I'm not quite that cynical: rather, I think it's just that people are more interested in appearing to solve problems than in actually solving them (which, to be fair, is definitely not a new phenomenon).

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    10. Re:Please stop by Kjella · · Score: 1

      It's a major problem in technology that really needs to be addressed if this country is going to be competitive in the future. It's unfortunate that it's so inflammatory, but it needs to be addressed.

      Somehow I doubt it's particularly bad in the US tech industry compared to other countries, maybe there's more lawsuits but that's the American way. Anyway I think there's two quite different forms of sexism:

      1. The belief that one sex is much better at something than the other by nature of their sex.
      2. Inappropriate sexual comments/jokes/propositions that belong in locker rooms or on Tinder.

      I'm pretty sure the first one is mostly dead and buried in the western world, at least I've never met anyone that has hinted to a natural order where doctors, engineers and mechanics are men and nurses, secretaries and hairdressers are women. Slight surprise yes, but no more than finding a man in a female-dominated occupation and never questioning their capability.

      The second kind, well IT tends to attract people who are short on social antennas. Not that they're particularly wanted, but they don't get work in "people jobs" but as long as they can operate a computer they can do a tech job. That often means they haven't bonded on an emotional level and only think about women as objects for sex. Maybe they have experience from casual sex or prostitutes that reinforce that view.

      Then there's the whole man-woman dynamic, for the most part men want sex and women relationships so the proposal is likely to be far more sexual. When a woman indicates she's attracted, most men will be flattered. When a man indicates he's attracted, many women will be insulted. Basically I think women in general are far more sensitive about unwanted sexual attention or objectification than men are.

      P.S. Once me and one male, one female coworker had a conversation that started about her "cracking the whip" and it took a BSDM turn. And even though tolerances are higher here than in the US, I was wondering if this one had gone out of bounds. Then she took it to the next level with one of our other male coworkers as her leather gimp and a strap-on. I guess he should be the one suing about sexual harassment, if only he knew...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    11. Re: Please stop by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      you know if you dont like your job, and you plan on leaving for "bullying" you can go and punch the dude in the face that is "bullying" you and it will no longer be a problem, and it would alleviate all mental duress.

    12. Re:Please stop by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      everything is different when viewed through their rose colored glasses. i wouldn't get yourself too worked up about it. you or i will not change their minds.

    13. Re:Please stop by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      It's a major problem in technology

      Can you cite any evidence that sexism is worse in technology than in other industries?

    14. Re:Please stop by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Tech workers are [i]saints[/i] in the sexism department compared to salespeople and doctors. One of the few people who ever told me that "women are not biologically as good as men" was an MBA. I've never met or heard a tech guy claim that.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    15. Re: Please stop by Entrope · · Score: 1

      You got the nail on the head. One of the strongest contributors to the success of a company is aggressive competition. However, it's hard to keep that competition from leaking over to competition within the company, and that internal competition often manifests as arrogance and mistreatment of others. Sometimes that is explicitly group-oriented -- sexism, racism, or other -isms -- and sometimes it is just prima donnas being jerks to the rest of the team.

    16. Re:Please stop by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure the first one is mostly dead and buried in the western world, at least I've never met anyone that has hinted to a natural order where doctors, engineers and mechanics are men and nurses, secretaries and hairdressers are women

      Clearly you've never met my uncle.

      The second kind, well IT tends to attract people who are short on social antennas. Not that they're particularly wanted, but they don't get work in "people jobs" but as long as they can operate a computer they can do a tech job. That often means they haven't bonded on an emotional level and only think about women as objects for sex.

      Being socially awkward isn't an excuse for being a raging wanker. Thing is, only thinking as women as objects for sex is pretty much an even worse version of the first one.

      Then there's the whole man-woman dynamic, for the most part men want sex and women relationships so the proposal is likely to be far more sexual.

      I am not convinced that's the case. Less and less so as they years go by. I know plenty of guys for whom settling down into a nice relationship with kids is/was very high on their list. I think this whole "men want sex women want relationships" thing is bad for guys. For many men it puts a whole heap of social pressure on them to go against their nature. And oh boy is the whole thing tied up with truly VAST amounts of social baggage. Until you can untangle that massive hairball, I don't really think you can make a definitive statement in that regard.

      Basically I think women in general are far more sensitive about unwanted sexual attention or objectification than men are.

      Women can be creepy stalkers too. I gather it's pretty unpleasant to be a victim of that.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    17. Re:Please stop by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      I'm fine with Slashdot reporting on sexism if there is actually some news there. New studies, new ideas on its causes/effects, hell, even a big lawsuit may be notable. But this article is nothing. The woman said "sexism is systemic in tech". Seriously, who doesn't know that? She wasn't even defending the sexism, merely making the observation that it exists.

    18. Re:Please stop by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      If you were a sysadmin and saw the shit people say in IRC while at work, you might have a different perspective! People say that shit even when they know all their network traffic is logged, imagine what they say to her when she's cornered in the break room with nobody else there!

      If only programmers were a bunch of laughing happy buddha bros, if only!

    19. Re:Please stop by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I believe it's become inflammatory because men keep being told that it's their fault when another man is sexist.

      The standard you walk past, is the standard you accept.

      it's an HR and management failure.

      Almost always but not always.

      As for getting blamed for what others do when you were not even there, sucks, but you should have got used to that way back in school when your entire class was blamed for something one kid did.

    20. Re:Please stop by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      That's only true because barbering is men's work according to those types.

    21. Re:Please stop by laddiebuck · · Score: 1

      I'm really enjoying watching Uber's culture getting its well-earned raking. That alone is worth every article.

      As to sexism, there's plenty of new things to say, but each discussion is hijacked by the same 2 or 3 arguments taking place.

      But more seriously, every social movement and major event gets its own sea of scrutiny and discussion and ties in to current events. This is tech's sexism moment, and we're in the middle of an unresolved problem. We already did mobile, iPods, Web 2.0, Microsoft vs Linux, Java garbage collection, the DMCA, SCO, the dotcom bust, etc. Every topic had its three headlines a week, then it was resolved and we moved on.

      Sexism in tech isn't resolved, and we can't move on until it's resolved or we'd be forced to admit that we're something which none of us want to be.

    22. Re:Please stop by Tranzistors · · Score: 1

      Can you cite any evidence that sexism is worse in technology than in other industries?

      Why? OP never claimed that it is worse, just that it is a serious problem.

    23. Re:Please stop by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Probably not, salespeople don't stop saying that kind of stuff. And doctors say it directly to women.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    24. Re:Please stop by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      The standard you walk past, is the standard you accept.

      When you have no authority, you are in no position to tell anyone what to do. Management and HR are the ones with the authority.

      you should have got used to that way back in school...

      That's exactly the type of argument a sexist might make to justify their inappropriate behavior.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    25. Re:Please stop by uniquegeek · · Score: 1

      "So, why do you always write these strong women characters?"

      "Because you're still asking me that question."

    26. Re:Please stop by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      When you have no authority, you are in no position to tell anyone what to do. Management and HR are the ones with the authority.

      Are you that much of a coward that simply saying "Dude, not cool" when you hear a co-worker say something sexist is too much for you?

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    27. Re:Please stop by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      1. The belief that one sex is much better at something than the other by nature of their sex. [...] I'm pretty sure the first one is mostly dead and buried in the western world,

      Dude, on this very thread we see people argue that women just aren't as interested in tech as men. Are you blind?

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    28. Re:Please stop by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      Please stop putting a "sexism in tech" story on the front page.

      It's a major problem in technology that really needs to be addressed if this country is going to be competitive in the future. It's unfortunate that it's so inflammatory, but it needs to be addressed.

      No. It is a major problem in the SV startup culture (and in some areas in Academia).

      Tech is a lot wider (much wider) than that.

      See, I've worked in tech for more than 25 years in multiple industries (product development, insurance, service providers and defense contractors.) Anything remotely resembling sexual harassment and gender discrimination gets you fired on the spot.

      Uber might be a general symptom of SV's startup/tech culture, but SV is a behavioral anomaly in tech in general.

    29. Re:Please stop by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      When you have no authority, you are in no position to tell anyone what to do. Management and HR are the ones with the authority.

      Are you that much of a coward that simply saying "Dude, not cool" when you hear a co-worker say something sexist is too much for you?

      Do you honestly believe that's all it take to curb that type of behavior? If you do then you do not understand the fundamental underpinnings of the issue. All of that aside, it's still management and HR's job to do something about the individual, not mine.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    30. Re:Please stop by speedplane · · Score: 1

      It's a major problem in technology

      Can you cite any evidence that sexism is worse in technology than in other industries?

      Yes, I can.

      --
      Fast Federal Court and I.T.C. updates
    31. Re:Please stop by dbIII · · Score: 1

      When you have no authority, you are in no position to tell anyone what to do. Management and HR are the ones with the authority.

      Yes, it's rule quoted from a military officer as something to take in mind for anyone who wishes to act responsibly.
      Acting responsibly includes reporting unacceptable acts to people with authority of you have no influence on those events yourself (it should be obvious so why the excuse above?).

    32. Re:Please stop by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Do you honestly believe that's all it take to curb that type of behavior?

      Point out where I said that.

      It would definitely be helpful if more men spoke out, because that would give a strong signal that sexist behaviour is socially unacceptable. If that is so hard for you that you feel the need to deflect when you are asked to do so, I stand by my assessment: you're a coward.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    33. Re:Please stop by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      Acting responsibly includes reporting unacceptable acts to people with authority of you have no influence on those events yourself

      The problem has never been that people aren't reporting bad behavior, it's that HR and management are doing jackshit about it.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    34. Re:Please stop by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      It would definitely be helpful if more men spoke out, because that would give a strong signal that sexist behaviour is socially unacceptable.

      I could tell them all day long that their behavior is unacceptable and it wouldn't change their behavior in the least. The problem has never been that they don't know other's think it's unacceptable behavior, it's that they think it's acceptable behavior. Furthermore, why would you believe that is must be other men that must assert it's unacceptable? Women aren't invalids incapable of asserting themselves.

      If that is so hard for you that you feel the need to deflect when you are asked to do so, I stand by my assessment: you're a coward.

      I'm considering the problem as a whole instead of worrying about literally inconsequential details. Also, there are some men that actually are cowardly, what good does shaming them for not being "manly" enough accomplish?

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    35. Re:Please stop by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      they think it's acceptable behavior

      They think that because cowards like you keep letting them getting away with it.

      Furthermore, why would you believe that is must be other men that must assert it's unacceptable? Women aren't invalids incapable of asserting themselves.

      Because the very essence of their sexism means that they will take other men more seriously. Really, its not that hard.

      there are some men that actually are cowardly, what good does shaming them for not being "manly" enough accomplish?

      Since I was nowhere imputing cowardliness with a lack of manliness, I think we have the nub of the situation here: you are not a coward for not speaking out about sexism, you are a coward because you agree and just don't have the courage to speak out openly, instead just letting the douchebros do the hard work for you.

      As the start of this subthread quoted: "The standard you walk past is the standard you accept".

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    36. Re:Please stop by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

      they think it's acceptable behavior

      They think that because cowards like you keep letting them getting away with it.

      Why they think it's acceptable isn't related to their peers, it's directly tied to figures of authority. Without an authority figure telling them it's unacceptable and taking disciplinary action, there is nothing their peers can do (within the law) to stop their behavior.

      Because the very essence of their sexism means that they will take other men more seriously. Really, its not that hard.

      Anything that counts as taking it "more seriously" requires actions not words. Anything less is like telling a media pirate that downloading files is wrong and they shouldn't do it. Words without actions are meaningless.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    37. Re:Please stop by dbIII · · Score: 1

      With respect, it's most definitely a bit of both in a lot of cases. Maybe you've only seen the latter but once things really blow up with suicides or whatever the investigations turn up both (or so I'm told). We are discussing the general case and not whatever specific disfunctional workplace you are complaining about.

    38. Re:Please stop by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      As I said, you're a coward. Your hiding behind 'authority' figures makes that abundantly clear. Befehl ist Befehl, after all.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    39. Re: Please stop by fubarrr · · Score: 1

      >Over things you have no authority on

      If you are a military officer, you have authority for as long as you have rifles behind you.

      Being ordered to bomb civilians? Stage an insurrection in the army, organize, have your men storm The Pentagon, sodomize Chaney in da cornhole, take the power in your hands, instil rightfulness. This is a conduct worthy of a military man!

    40. Re:Please stop by speedplane · · Score: 1

      two countries where its still legal to treat women like refrigerators. Yeah ok pal.

      And yet, India sent a probe to Mars with a team made up with a large contingent of women.

      --
      Fast Federal Court and I.T.C. updates
  4. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Please stop putting a "sexism in tech" story on the front page. three times a week.

    Why? Are you a snowflake? Were you triggered? Do you need a safe space where you don't have to see any articles that are offensive to you?

  5. Re:Telling the truth is fatal by DickBreath · · Score: 1

    Yes. That.

    I was going to write something similar. Just because it is unpleasant doesn't make it untrue.

    --

    I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
  6. Smart people by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    Working outside their area of expertise.

    Say what you like but as a manager or supervisory type, HR better be your friend, or you will be hammered in court. And fired.

    The dumb was/is strong in these Uber managers. Makes me want to buy another car just to say no to Uber.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    1. Re:Smart people by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      Working outside their area of expertise.

      Say what you like but as a manager or supervisory type, HR better be your friend, or you will be hammered in court. And fired.

      The dumb was/is strong in these Uber managers. Makes me want to buy another car just to say no to Uber.

      HR is never your friend. Never.

    2. Re:Smart people by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      HR's job is to protect the company from the employee. If that makes HR the friend of the employee depends somewhat on the amount of loyalty the employee has. If the employee and the employer are friends, and even teammates, then HR surely is the employees friend and teammate.

      Not that that describes most of the workplaces I've seen, but there is no law of physics preventing it.

  7. Re:What's the full story? by OffaMyLawn · · Score: 2

    This is pretty much what I was thinking as well after reading TFA. Tried clicking around to see if maybe it just clipped it off in the summary, but that's all that was posted of the conversation.

    Though I'm not entirely sure it would necessarily help Uber's image at this point, it would at least be nice to know the remainder of the message. If nothing else so I could know how angry I'm supposed to be.

  8. Uber issue, not a tech issue by slasher999 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've been in IT for nearly 25 years and I've always worked shoulder to shoulder with women and men alike. Uber has an HR and a culture issue. This isn't a widespread tech industry issue.

    1. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'd say it's widespread, just not universal.

    2. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your anecdote isn't data. It's nice that you've worked for progressive companies and that you yourself are good about working with women, but it's absolutely a systemic issue. Story after story after story confirms it.

      Rather, I think you and the companies you work for are outliers. Congratulations on that; I hope you keep your streak.

    3. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by gravewax · · Score: 1

      I would have to agree, while it is not uncommon in Tech, it is on the decline and really most big firms don't have this issue anymore. Been a long time since I have seen a firm with such issues (there will always be one or two men and woman with sexist natures everywhere though). It really does sound though that Uber has serious HR and staffing issues that are endemic to the company though.

    4. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      I've been in IT for nearly 25 years and I've always worked shoulder to shoulder with women and men alike. Uber has an HR and a culture issue. This isn't a widespread tech industry issue.

      WTF? Your anecdote if it's even true is well and truly out of the ordinary for the tech industry. You don't even need to look to the industry why, you can see why just be peeking into a university IT lecture.

      Kudos to you and your workplace for having gender equality. But that is far from the norm.

    5. Re: Uber issue, not a tech issue by slasher999 · · Score: 2

      I've worked for just as many big companies as small mom and pop shops. Maybe it's just a north east / mid-atlantic thing, but this has never been an issue here. I'm sure there is anecdotal evidence to the contrary.

    6. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by avandesande · · Score: 1

      It's hardly a 'progressive' thing. Most places are small where everyone knows each other and bad interpersonal behavior of any sort is not tolerated. At least that's been my experience.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    7. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by computational+super · · Score: 2

      Your anecdote isn't data. ... it's absolutely a systemic issue. anecdote after anecdote confirms it.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    8. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by dave562 · · Score: 2

      As many others have said, your experience is not the norm. I have been doing IT since 1996. I have worked with one female sysadmin and two female DBAs. Other than that, most of the women in "IT" have all been in PM and other non-technical roles.

      My current company employees ~5000 people. Our CEO and General Counsel are women, in addition to countless Managing Directors. We have equality programs up the wazoo, including for LGBT and every race except us "white" people. We are not a tech company per se, but are fairly representative of "Corporate America" in many ways.

    9. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      I've had more female bosses and supervisors than male. I've always had at least one female co-worker on my team. I think I'm up to ~20 years of IT experience now, and I started out as a contractor visiting a wide variety of sites before I started taking corporate cubical gigs.

      The problems have been with socially awkward guys, not with misogyny or institutionalized sexism. And even those problems started waning in the early 2000s as employers had more and more potential employees to choose from and could get pickier.

    10. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      Well im an electrician, ill say that atleast 99% of us are male. and we talk shit to eachother. the FEW good females that are in this career talk shit and can brush said shit talking off. the ones that dont make it. usually say sexism.

    11. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      Your anecdote isn't data. It's nice that you've worked for progressive companies and that you yourself are good about working with women, but it's absolutely a systemic issue. Story after story after story confirms it.

      Rather, I think you and the companies you work for are outliers. Congratulations on that; I hope you keep your streak.

      It is a systemic issue in SV's startup culture. This is not normal behavior. It hasn't been anywhere else since I've been working in this shit (mine is a second 25-year anecdote.) Take it for what it is. If you look around you and you see sexual harassment in general, time to move to change fucking pastures dude.

    12. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      I've been in IT for nearly 25 years and I've always worked shoulder to shoulder with women and men alike. Uber has an HR and a culture issue. This isn't a widespread tech industry issue.

      WTF? Your anecdote if it's even true is well and truly out of the ordinary for the tech industry. You don't even need to look to the industry why, you can see why just be peeking into a university IT lecture.

      Kudos to you and your workplace for having gender equality. But that is far from the norm.

      Bullshit. I've post this several times and I second what the OP said. I've worked in multiple industries (insurance, services, DCIM, defense contractors). This behavior is an anomaly of tech in general.

      This shit is concentrated in SV's startup culture and some niches in Academia.

    13. Re:Uber issue, not a tech issue by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. I've post this several times and I second what the OP said.

      Thankyou for your anecdote. I'll go with the data. I'll go with my eyes. I'll go with the general view that this will not be fixed anytime soon either given the incoming generation who will enter the tech sector in the coming years are mostly male as well.

  9. Because you say so? by s.petry · · Score: 4, Interesting

    0.70c on the dollar has been debunked over and over again. Discrimination in the workplace has been illegal since I was a kid in the 70s. This includes discrimination against women. Currently 64% of all Doctorates, 61% of all Masters degrees, 58% of all Bachelors, and 57% of all Associated degrees go to women. Women are more likely to get hired for a job when put against a man with the same credentials, and even higher when you compare ethnicity. A Hispanic/Black woman will be hired 80% of the time over a Hispanic/Black male. Women have more scholarships, higher rate of approvals for education grants, and higher rate of student loans. Non Whites have the same advantages. The only people getting "screwed" by the system currently are white males. The rest is a fabrication based on repeated propaganda (lies).

    Do a web search for stats yourself, I'm tired of providing citations. People with agenda will deny they exist regardless, and if you are curious they are easy enough to find.

    Sadly, this has made it a place where people no longer believe real issues. When everything is an "ism", nothing is an "ism".

    The country is not going to be competitive in the future because identity politics is isolating people into fact averse gangs, each using their own type of thuggery to get "theirs".

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Because you say so? by MalleusEBHC · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You quote lots of numbers, but you're not talking about software. Women (and people of color) are greatly underrepresented as software engineers.

      Sexism is a real issue. It will continue to be while we refuse to acknowledge that.

    2. Re:Because you say so? by OhPlz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And men are under representing in nursing and child care.. so what? People are going to choose career paths that interest them. Not being 50/50 is not evidence of a problem.

    3. Re:Because you say so? by MalleusEBHC · · Score: 1, Troll

      The women who choose software engineering as a career path are consistently saying that it's a problem. That's that evidence.

    4. Re:Because you say so? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Except usually Men in nursing and child care are welcomed openly in the work place, at least in the city I live in. It's not the same in the tech industry... hence the complaints.

    5. Re:Because you say so? by computational+super · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yeah, I take any accusation of "sexism" from a woman with a grain of salt. They often aren't even referring to anything especially serious, even in their minds - they might overhear a co-worker complain about his nagging wife, or hear somebody say "manpower" instead of "person power" and think, "welp, there goes that 'workplace sexism' again". To too many women, sexism just means "anything I don't like".

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    6. Re:Because you say so? by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      must be why them and the "SJW" kind get along. get rid of anything i dont like or ill cry.

    7. Re:Because you say so? by slew · · Score: 2

      0.70c on the dollar has been debunked over and over again.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      The thing that struck home is a survey of STEM new grads, that shows a ~0.7 disparity as well. Seems like that's the most apples to apples comparison there could be, before things like family and work home balance start to factor in.

      I guess she could be lying about all of her data though.

      Interesting that she did note the observed effect of "devaluation" (as more women move into the field, both the wage discrepancy *AND* the wages decrease). Presumably this is similar to the effect of right-to-work law changes on union jobs strongholds, right? Which is not really that different than the H1b discussion.

      I'm not trying justifying discrimination, but just observing that apparently the laws of economics don't give a rats ass about what basis discrimination occurs. Discrimination will help some and hurts others, but if the goal is to end discrimination, then to help others, you must hurt some. The net economic result may be higher, but probably not high enough so in the end somebody has to lose... Generally, some of those won't want to lose, so expect friction. Hopefully this is obvious.

    8. Re:Because you say so? by anonymous_echidna · · Score: 1

      ... To too many women, sexism just means "anything I don't like".

      I don't like being groped.
      I don't like people assuming credit for my work.
      I don't like having pornography shoved in my face.
      I don't like the automatic assumption that I'm not an engineer.

      You have a problem with that?

      --
      In most times, most places, by most people, liars are considered contemptible. - Ursula Le Guin
    9. Re:Because you say so? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      The women who choose software engineering as a career path are consistently saying that it's a problem.

      Can you cite any evidence that more women engineers file gender discrimination or sexual harassment complaints than the average for other professions?

      Anecdote: In my company, we have had several sexual harassment complaints about our shipping dept and our sales dept, but zero about any of our engineers.

    10. Re:Because you say so? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Discrimination in the workplace has been illegal since I was a kid in the 70s. This includes discrimination against women.

      Oh I see, it's illegal so it doesn't ever happen. That's why I also never see anyone going over the speed limit. True story.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    11. Re:Because you say so? by s.petry · · Score: 2

      Discrimination in the workplace has been illegal since I was a kid in the 70s. This includes discrimination against women.

      Oh I see, it's illegal so it doesn't ever happen. That's why I also never see anyone going over the speed limit. True story.

      What a moronic statement. What It means that there should be plenty of court cases proving that discrimination exists if it was true. You see, those cases with guilty verdicts would be something we call facts. Facts are used to form valid opinions, and of course debate a position. The more fact you have, the better your opinion and the better one can debate their position.

      In the case of people speeding, we do have these things called facts. Millions upon millions of tickets are on record proving that speeding happens. Do you notice the difference between Speeding tickets and Sexual harassment in the STEM workplace? I agree it would be harder to prove sexual harassment, but people like you who claim it's so common should be able to easily justify your opinion with a reasonable number of _facts_. Those would be guilty verdicts in discrimination cases.

      It is quite remarkable that you believe, without any facts, that nasty men are all out to abuse women in the workplace. Even worse, when asked to present facts you hide, and ignore any fact that runs contrary to your fantasy. Sane people work differently. When presented with facts they perform research and adjust their opinions based on new information.

      People like you walk around claiming that reality is false and your fantasy is reality. The more people like you I read the more I am amazed at how prophetic Ayn Rand was with "Atlas Shrugged". No, you never read it so don't bother with more lies. Yes, I was correct stating that you were not sane. (unless you are a shill being paid to spread the delusion, which I highly doubt.)

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    12. Re: Because you say so? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Who cares who takes credit

      When the promotions or layoffs happen everyone cares.

    13. Re:Because you say so? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      at how prophetic Ayn Rand was with "Atlas Shrugged".

      You need to get out more if you think that. Her screed on how fucked American Capitalism was compared with Russian Nobility was not prophetic it was about looking back at the dreams of a lost past. It was about how little jailbait Digby was born into the right class to fuck a "great man" and end up ruling over the serfs by right of bloodline.
      Anything that compares 1950s Hollywood to Communism (the dig at 20th Century Fox) is something should be considered as deranged. She saw 1950s America as badly broken.
      If you are going to get your politics from old SF at least read some good stuff like Heinlein.

    14. Re:Because you say so? by s.petry · · Score: 1

      You didn't read the book either. Don't attempt to critique me on things I never wrote. There is no character Digby in "Atlas Shrugged." Yes, I know Fountainhead too, but it was an earlier work not as fully developed.

      How do I know you didn't read it? Because you are not even near the mark on my comment regarding a delusional person claiming reality is false and their fantasy is real. It's about 1200 pages, and I highly recommend it. I have read Heinlein too, but he's was not a Philosopher.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    15. Re:Because you say so? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      I actually was accused of sexual harassment in my workplace decades ago. My professional and social encouragement to a new female engineer who didn't speak English as a native language was misinterpreted by a manager who was sensitive to harassment issues. It took direct testimony by several other junior engineers in other work groups with whom I collaborated to clear the charge, which had been encouraged by that manager directly to the new employee. It took roughly a decade to re-establish a good relationship with that employee due to the resulting embarrassment, including making friends with their spouse and their child.

    16. Re:Because you say so? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      What It means that there should be plenty of court cases proving that discrimination exists if it was true.

      But most speeding involves a ticket and no court case. Therefore most speeding doesn't end up in court. Therefore the is no speeding CHECKMATE FEMINISTS.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    17. Re:Because you say so? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      And men are under representing in nursing and child care.. so what?

      So what?

      Well, there's decent evidence of discrimination, and the social stigma is keeping quite some number of men away from a job they'd like. But suuuure, no problem.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    18. Re:Because you say so? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I take any accusation of "sexism" from a woman with a grain of salt.

      I'm not sexist but if a woman says it, then I'm sceptical.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    19. Re:Because you say so? by uniquegeek · · Score: 1

      Women don't report it because they get shut down or ignored. Do you know any women in IT well enough where they would tell you what they've encountered, and have you actually asked them and listened?

    20. Re:Because you say so? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Women don't report it because they get shut down or ignored.

      Can you provide any evidence whatsoever that this is more prevalent in tech than in any other industry?

    21. Re:Because you say so? by uniquegeek · · Score: 1

      The irony is we don't actually know hard numbers because it's not formally reported. And who knows if the the rate of reporting is different between tech and non-tech (or by job type).

      Hell, sometimes you see complaints that sexism in IT in Silicon Valley is worse than elsewhere, but we don't know what the rates are for that either. How would someone who worked in Silicon Valley all their life know what sexism is like in New York?

      All we know is the women reporting this in SV are consistently saying it's a big problem.

    22. Re:Because you say so? by xenobyte · · Score: 1

      I don't like having pornography shoved in my face.

      Huh? - If someone sends you pornography against your will - report it. It is banned at most workplaces anyway.
      Is this really a big problem? - Do women get sent pornography at work much?
      I've heard about female celebrities getting sent dick pics but that's about it.

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
    23. Re: Because you say so? by fubarrr · · Score: 1

      Rand was a cryptocommie herself. She was brought up in the same social strata that gave world nihilist terror movements, bolsheviks and the "thou who don't work, don't eat" Communist motto.

      I credit her for turning American ruling class more ideologically communist that the original Russian commies.

  10. Sexism is systematic in tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've worked in technology for a few years. When I was a floor technician assembling stuff Sexism was less pervasive since there was more gender equality.

    When I shifted to IT (network / system admin) it was 99% guys and was quite shocked how nerds could have such filthy mouths and that a lot of the guys had a bizzare nerd bravado I never experienced until entering IT.

    More women need to be in hand on tech roles and stop going into sales, client relations, office administration, etc.... When entering the tech industry.

    Until then nerd bravado Sexism will remain pervasive.

    An easy temp gap fix would be to put these guys back into the sub basement where their conversations can't be overheard anymore. :)

    1. Re:Sexism is systematic in tech by Major+Blud · · Score: 1

      quite shocked how nerds could have such filthy mouths

      I can assure you that women can be just has filthy. My wife works in a small business that is comprised of 100% women. The stuff they talk about would make Andrew Dice Clay blush.

      --
      If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
  11. Re:Telling the truth is fatal by avandesande · · Score: 2

    That's been my experience. It's mostly an issue with 'bro startups' in silicon valley that make the news, nobody cares about the small boring businesses that make up the majority of IT. Also at my current job the majority of my co-workers are women including my boss. I suspect things would not end well if I said or did something stupid along that vein....

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  12. Re:Techism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    At least, so long as the batteries hold out.

  13. I predict.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I predict that the top voted posts in this comment thread will validate this notion.

    Go on you beautful alt-wrong manbaby redpill slingers. Shower us with your wisdom.

    1. Re:I predict.. by computational+super · · Score: 1

      So... you're saying that if somebody disagrees with you, that means you're right? By your logic, then, you consider the people who say that it isn't a problem, right.

      --
      Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
    2. Re:I predict.. by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      alt-wrong. thats hilarious. thank you.

  14. Point and Laugh Journalism by michaelcole · · Score: 1

    Important shit was happening in the world today. Refugees drowned in the Mediterranean. Fascism rampaged across Europe. But someone wrote about Uber + Sexism, so we hired an intern to repost that and got clicks and ad revenue.

    1. Re:Point and Laugh Journalism by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Important shit was happening in the world today.

      So what are you doing whining on the internet about an article you don't like? Get out there and do something, or do your standards only apply to other people?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:Point and Laugh Journalism by ark1 · · Score: 1

      And those stories are relevant on a tech site because...?

  15. Prove it! by s.petry · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Women _CHOOSING_ not to obtain a degree in Software is the problem. That is not sexism, that is a fact with statistics to back the fact. Women are getting far more degrees than men, but are choosing degrees in Psychology, Medical Doctors, Law, Political Science, Journalism, and other fields not related to Software.

    Prove to us that you are correct, show me the College discrimination that keeps women away from STEM. I searched, there is no such thing as institutional sexism in College prohibiting women from obtaining a degree related to software. In fact it is quite the opposite. Universities are begging for women to obtain STEM degrees, as is society, as are employers.

    Next, prove that degrees don't matter. I have a Mathematics degree. Is the fact that I can't get a job as a MRI specialist or BioChemist related to the fact that I'm being discriminated against, or my _CHOICE_ in degrees? A Law degree does not provide any credentials for STEM.

    Lastly, prove to me that women are choosing other fields due to discriminatory aptitude tests which give a lower score to women because "sexism". Aptitude testing is the number one factor for determining a degree choice.

    You can't prove any of those things. Go ahead and try to back your allegation with _FACTS_. Something you SJWs seem to despise with a passion.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Prove it! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Why do women choose not to do tech degrees any more? Those courses used to be more popular in the 70s and 80s. The must be a reason.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Prove it! by s.petry · · Score: 2

      "Any more" is a complete misnomer. When people claim the "good ole days" they neglect the fact that most women were busy at home raising families. The majority could not afford to work, or could not afford to work full time. Single and wealthy women worked full time, not usually women with families.

      The State was not the primary path for raising kids in the 70s and early 80s, parents were. Due to both social pressure to put women into the workplace and another fine program pushing self happiness as the number one consideration in your actions (both social engineering) that is no longer true. A majority of people today are being raised by the State, but that's not the same as the good ole days you claim was so great.

      There are countless factors involved in people's choices of careers, and society has changed drastically since the 70s and 80s.

      So what is your expectation in an answer? Nothing you could provide as a rational explanation is simple. Meaning, the simple explanation of sexism is also wrong.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    3. Re:Prove it! by jader3rd · · Score: 2

      Why do women choose not to do tech degrees any more? Those courses used to be more popular in the 70s and 80s. The must be a reason.

      Because once the computer became personal computer (instead of a main frame), very socially awkward people (predominantly male) fell in love with them. The women would look around, see handful of class mates absolutely in love with these computer things and then felt out of place because they were not as passionate about computers/programming as these other guys. Since they felt out of place they left to a field where they could feel roughly as passionate about it as their peers.

      Other men in the classes wouldn't be doing the "reading between the lines", in comparing themselves to the in-love-with-computers students, and didn't self select themselves out of the classes. Those men just weren't socially sensitive enough, in the way that the women were.

    4. Re: Prove it! by Entrope · · Score: 1

      Or maybe back then, there was almost no expectation that software devs would spend 60+ hours a week at work, so people who (quite reasonably) want to care for children or parents could do that after working hours.

      What social supports do you think were withdrawn since the 70s or 80s?

    5. Re:Prove it! by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      So, when somebody points out that more women used to get more tech degrees than do now, your response is that it is because in the good ole days women were at home raising families.

      That is so fucking stupid, man. So fucking stupid.

      You probably don't even realize it. You'll even say things that stupid as long as it seems to shade or obscure your emasculated overcompensating sexism.

      Did it ever occur to you that being at home raising families might have actually gotten in the way of having tech careers, and that it no possible way could account for there having also been a higher percent of women in these jobs then than there are now?

    6. Re:Prove it! by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Also, there is a difference between "not being socially sensitive" and actually being an actively overbearing asshole. A lot of these guys are genuinely sexist at such a deep lever that they don't even see women as real humans. And that leads to actively dangerous and scary behavior.

    7. Re:Prove it! by Kartu · · Score: 1

      Just remember that what you said is merely an idea, not even theory, let alone, fact.

  16. What's wrong? by Bodhammer · · Score: 3, Funny

    "What's wrong with being sexy?"
    -Nigel Tufnel

    --
    "I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
  17. What was wrong with the comments? by clay_buster · · Score: 1

    The manager countered that they thought the industry had a problem and that the place they worked was great. Seems like a candid response that builds up their company.

  18. Not so fun/funny when its you by fabriciom · · Score: 1

    I'm sure this stuff is fun/funny for many whey they are not at the other end. I my self have had to work a for gay (still in the closet) boss who sexually harassed me. Let me tell you its not fun or funny. Worst part is that no one believes you.

  19. Re:Sexism is systemic by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

    HAHAHA so youre saying clinton didnt get elected because of sexism now? you have to be fucking retarded. how many reason are you people going to come up with as to why she didnt win. SHE DIDNT WIN STOP CRYING. its been 6 fucking months!

  20. More bullshit by s.petry · · Score: 2, Informative

    Nearly 80% of the field is women. Men report being ridiculed by both patients and their female coworkers. Since women practice hypergamy men are not seen as much more than dating toys by most women in the field. Citations can easily be found.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:More bullshit by Kartu · · Score: 1

      Wow, downvoted the parent, seriously?

  21. BS by s.petry · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Your second and third sentences have no basis in reality. There was a massive push to social welfare programs to assist women with College in the later 80s and 90s. This includes assistance with child care so that Single Moms (a massively grown demographic) could go to College and not worry about their kids. Hence the disparity we have today which has 61% of all College students being women. You can't be so delusional that you believe moving women up to 61% of all college students is the result of a year, or even a few years. Then again, it seems like you really can be that delusional.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  22. Re:Sexism is systemic by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    Such protestations as yours notwithstanding, the reasons why things happen do in fact matter.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  23. The obvious by s.petry · · Score: 1

    The woman was not an "applicant"... She was actively RECRUITED by Uber thru LinkedIn.

    Doesn't that fact actually discount a large portion of the current claims of sexism?

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:The obvious by Spamalope · · Score: 1

      What are you getting on about? mutantSushi's comment seems to be to the polar -opposite- of the kind of blanket pronouncements and knee-jerk reactions SJWs are generally accused of.

      Exactly. You've misunderstood. That figure of speech means the AC is agreeing with mutantSushi.

      'Don't confuse with facts' is a figure of speech meaning roughly 'the complainer is too dumb to understand the explanation of their mistake' - but used when the complainer may know damn well they're wrong and are doing it anyway to make political/religious/social waves and/or to take advantage of an unbalanced playing field that will grant them the win though their wrong.

      AC could have written 'Don't point out the glaring contradiction that invalidates the whole point to an SJW, that's mansplaining! (or internalized misogyny if mutantSushi is female - or one of the other 20 er 50 er 92 genders)

    2. Re: The obvious by PoopJuggler · · Score: 2

      Sexism is more than just avoiding candidates based on gender.

    3. Re:The obvious by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 2

      The woman was not an "applicant"... She was actively RECRUITED by Uber thru LinkedIn.

      Doesn't that fact actually discount a large portion of the current claims of sexism?

      Only if both things were mutually exclusive. They are not. Welcome to logic 101.

  24. Fair point and observation by s.petry · · Score: 1

    Asian males are penalized on the ACT and SAT for their race.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  25. There hasn't been a Friday night fight for a while by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Yes, this story is odd... almost if the "scandal" is ginned-up so as to generate Yet Another Story Of Workplace Sexism And Why Something MUST BE DONE NOW (And BTW, Trump Grabs Pussies). It's just one more "Raising Awareness Moment" rammed into the eyeballs of the reader. Or a attempt to threaten a lawsuit and then settle.

    There hasn't been a Friday night fight for a while - it looks like it's back.
    There used to be an article every week to inspire angry virgins to go around screaming SJW!!!!

  26. So say the 9/11 was faked fruitcake by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Since I don't believe what you said about how no plane hit the Pentagon why should I believe your claims about "The rest is a fabrication based on repeated propaganda" now?
    You still appear to be full of shit you are just better at making it look credible via a bit of misdirection into areas outside of IT.

    If you are so scared of a woman taking your job then maybe you should get better at doing it instead of wasting time trying to put them down.

  27. May as well join? by dhasenan · · Score: 1

    You may as well join our company -- sure it sucks, but you're not going to get better anywhere else.

    Yeah, that's not an endorsement.

  28. Re:"discrimination scandal" by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    True, that; once you've landed in a discrimination scandal, there is no way to bail yourself out.

    Never discrimination scandal. Never.

  29. Typo - Dagby not Digby by dbIII · · Score: 1
    How fucking petty can you get?

    but he's was not a Philosopher

    Having read a bit about them he was a thousand times the philosopher of "bring in the Russian nobility to replace Capitalism" Rand. She was living in a system many times better than the one she wanted, and railing against it. You guys should read a bit of European history to immunise yourself against vile shit like Rand.

  30. Re:Sexism is systemic by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

    i just want you fuckers to stick to one reason, not pull a different out out of your ass every 3 days.

  31. State of /. "Community" by VikingNation · · Score: 1

    The majority of the comments are sophomoric, off topic, and unhelpful.

    1. Re:State of /. "Community" by russotto · · Score: 1

      The majority of the comments are sophomoric, off topic, and unhelpful.

      God damn, it's nice that there's one thing on the Internet that doesn't change.

  32. Fact aversion and lie, not typo by s.petry · · Score: 1

    You are still wrong and simply demonstrating that you have an irrational position based on complete ignorance. Reading your other posts in the thread it's obvious that you have the same position as the other SJWs, denying any fact that counters that position and providing none of your own.

    The prophetic nature of the book is not the main issue. The issue I pointed out is that there are a large number of people happy to express an opinion which is devoid of facts claiming that their non-factual fantasy is real.

    You have put an exclamation point on that fact, demonstrating that you are happy to be one of the ignorant masses.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Fact aversion and lie, not typo by dbIII · · Score: 1
      I should have looked at the name - it's fake engineer boy who denies fires and pretends the pentagon crash was faked - even Rand, who railed against the very heart of America, is less deranged than you.

      as the other SJWs

      Far too cowardly to use a real insult as well so you use code.

  33. -1 accurate by easyTree · · Score: 1

    Didn't rtfa or TFS.

    --
    Requiem for the American Dream
  34. Re:There hasn't been a Friday night fight for a wh by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Because it always a laugh when I'm blackmailed by a female co-worker threatening false reports

    Seriously? Did that really happen and you were so much of a doormat that you did not do the incredibly fucking obvious and pre-emptively tell your management about that threat before any blackmail material came out?

    Or did you see it on TV?

  35. Been in tech for 15 years by mtmiller100 · · Score: 1

    and I've never seen sexism in the Tech workplace at all. Have only read about it.