Prominent Drupal, PHP Developer Kicked From the Drupal Project Over Unconventional Sex Life (techcrunch.com)

An anonymous Slashdot reader writes: Last week the Drupal community erupted in anger after its leader, Dries Buytaert, asked Larry Garfield, a prominent Drupal contributor and long-time member of the Drupal and PHP communities, "to leave the Drupal project." Buytaert claims he did this "because it came to my attention that he holds views that are in opposition with the values of the Drupal project." A huge furor has erupted in response -- not least because the reason clearly has much to do with Garfield's unconventional sex life. [Garfield is into BDSM, and is a member of the Gorean community, "a community who are interested in, and/or participate in, elaborate sexual subjugation fantasies, in which men are inherently superior to women."] Buytaert made his post (which is now offline) in response after Larry went public, outing himself to public opinion. Buytaert retorted (excerpt available via TechCrunch): "when a highly-visible community member's private views become public, controversial, and disruptive for the project, I must consider the impact [...] all people are created equally. [sic] I cannot in good faith support someone who actively promotes a philosophy that is contrary to this [...] any association with Larry's belief system is inconsistent with our project's goals [...] I recused myself from the Drupal Association's decision [to dismiss Garfield from his conference role] [...] Many have rightfully stated that I haven't made a clear case for the decision [...] I did not make the decision based on the information or beliefs conveyed in Larry's blog post." TechCrunch columnist Jon Evans goes on to "unpack" the questions that naturally arise from these "Code of Conduct conflicts."

Comments

While its not my cup of tea

[Revek]

It seems like they don't practice what they preach. Sounds like SJW idiocracy. Their security guy must be a real closet case. As in preachy/crazy

Re:While its not my cup of tea

[elrous0]

It looks like everyone not fully embracing the SJW agenda is being purged in tech and entertainment industries in the wake of the Trump hysteria. People thought Tim Allen was crazy for joking to Jimmy Kimmel that being even a moderate conservative in Hollywood was starting to feel like being a Jew in 1930's Germany. But he wasn't just shooting his mouth off. One of the first things the Nazis did with Jews was ban them from most employment.

Let's hope sanity ultimately prevails before we cross into truly dangerous territory here.

Re:While its not my cup of tea

[elrous0]

Yeah, I thought it was funny at first too. But when people start having their livelihoods destroyed for even conventional political or social deviations from the orthodoxy, I tend to stop laughing.

Re:While its not my cup of tea

[K. S. Van Horn]

The female equivalent of Larry Garfield's particular sexual interests would be a woman who was a dominatrix. Would you be calling it "tolerating intolerance" to allow a dominatrix to be a Drupal contributor? Would you insist that if a female contributor were found to be a dominatrix, she must be forced out of the project? Would you justify it by telling her, "Sorry for not tolerating misandry"?

Re:While its not my cup of tea

[elrous0]

A person who has lost his or her job and been blackballed from an entire industry over their personal political or social beliefs isn't just a "pseudo-victim." They're a very real one.

Re:While its not my cup of tea

[Anonymous Coward]

It says right there in the Techcrunch article, in a quote from Larry himself:

...someone, I do not know who, stumbled across my profile on a private, registration-required website for alternative-lifestyle people that information made it to the Community Working Group...

Re:While its not my cup of tea

[sexconker]

Not a fair comparison. The BDSM community has Dominatrixes AND Dominants Male and Female. Gor has no such equality...that's the problem.

You don't know what you're talking about. It's just a sub genre of dom.

Re:While its not my cup of tea

[Anonymous Coward]

The Gor community has more than one form of inequality going for it.

Specifically, the community is overwhelmingly women. I know this from first-hand experience (not that you would believe an A/C anyway, but my assertion here is that I have seen this with my own eyes, and am not just making this shit up to troll).

The female-to-male ratio is so high that the women must share their men with other women.

The kicker is....the women only flock to real manly-men. If you don't quite have the build it is possible to make up for that with enough butch in your personality...but the more sensitive guys tend to get snubbed, even by women who have no partner.

Re:While its not my cup of tea

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet when women do it they get high fives for being strong and independent. Truth be told, at least his kink involves just subjugating women that are into it rather than subjugating an entire gender the way that typical American women do it.

Re:While its not my cup of tea

[I'm New Around Here]

So black business owners can discriminate against white employees and customers, because historically it was only the other way?

Re:While its not my cup of tea

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong, the only people who use the term SJW are cast as bigots and racists because it's easier than admitting that the SJW movement is itself bigoted in the extreme.

Never mind that most of the SJW mindlessness involves representing people that never asked to be represented and doesn't even attempt to consider what we think should be done about problems facing us.

But, if it helps special snowflakes like you sleep better at night, I suppose that's not going to stop.

Re:While its not my cup of tea

[Anonymous Coward]

If your sex life involves subjugation of a sub-class of people anywhere, in this case women generally

Notwithstanding the "victimstance" which of which privilege so bitterly complains (on which point I agree with you) ... Mr Garfield's sex life does not involve subjugation of women generally. However seriously the Goreans like to take themselves, it involves acting out the subjugation fantasies with a particular subset of consenting women who similarly get their rocks off from playing this game. Women who, no less than the man in question, have every right to pursue their sexual fulfillment. The Gorean discourse, much like the 'female supremacy' discourse within branches of femdom, should be understood, not as serious social analysis, but as a prop to fantasy. Until Goreans move from getting each other's rocks off to implementing their fantasies as social policy that discourse need not concern the rest of us.

This is political alright. It's good old-fashioned kink shaming!

Re: While its not my cup of tea

[backslashdot]

It's fantasy role play. It doesn't mean they actually believe or would act in real life on that stuff. At least I hope not. Not all of them anyway. My guess is if there isn't allowed to be a controlled outlet for a person's needs it would fester until they can't control it. We need people to be able to quasi-experience their harmless fantasies without repercussions or harming others. Where that is not possible we have to provide them with mental health services. Otherwise their brains may scramble even more and they may end up doing something harmful not just to themselves but to others. Hey it sucks but there isn't any other option.

Re:While its not my cup of tea

[cayenne8]

So, if he'd been gay, it would have been ok, right?

But just because his sexual proclivity is into BDSM and some wild fantasy stuff....it isn't ok?

Seriously...why do they draw a line at one thing and not another?

As long as both are legal activities, why should someone be fired for whatever gets them off in the bedroom AFTER they leave the workplace?

Re:While its not my cup of tea

[Geeky]

In that case it's invasion of his privacy. Someone's been cyberstalking him.

If you're on a site like, say, Fetlife, that should be understood to be private. If you run a personal blog talking about that stuff, then fair game.

Maybe he has a case for sexual discrimination - his sexual preferences, as long as they're acted out only with consenting adults - should not be anyone's business but his.

Today I learned . . .

[hduff]

Today I learned that Drupal had rules about sex. It must be for a plug-in.

Re:Today I learned . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

On the positive side, I hear that the Gimp project is always looking for new developers.

Crazy

[markdavis]

>Buytaert claims he did this "because it came to my attention that he holds views that are in opposition with the values of the Drupal project. [...]in which men are inherently superior to women."]

This is crazy. Who cares about his sex life? Aren't we above that type of thing??? Besides, such role-playing sex fantasy has nothing to do with men being "superior" to women, in fact, it is often the other way around and still has nothing to do with "real life".

This is not a social club or religion, it is a set of computer program tools. It would be difference if his CODING or PROJECT philosophy ran contrary to the the group, because that is actually related to the project. Even then there should be some amount of tolerance.

I abhor some of the political correctness going around, but generally I am intolerant of intolerance. Hopefully others in the Drupal project agree.

Re:Crazy

[jwhyche]

Exactly. Who cares about his sex life? If getting wrapped in leather and hog tied with a butt plug up his ass is his thing, more power too him. I don't see how anything happening inside his bed room is any of any ones' business.

Just remember the safe word is "hurt me mama."

Re:Crazy

[St.Creed]

The way I read Larry Garfield's statement is that he's into Dom/Sub relationships, and his club is as well, and the whole thing is mainly a roleplaying thing for him. I'm pretty sure you also have people in the club that take it way to serious, and probably a lot of sexist assholes too, but the same thing has been true for AD&D or gaming communities as well.

Given the pretty thoughtful nature of Larry's post, and how easy it is to claim a few snippets out of context and paint someone as a mass murderer (or worse, as someone involved in nonstandard sexual activity) I'd go a bit slower on this. I think the Drupal leadership could have been taken in by someone with an axe to grind, someone who doesn't know a thing about BDSM to begin with, abhors the concept, and then found some quotes he could use to hit the victim over the head with. I've seen this happen before in small, close-knit circles. Overreaction is common due to the shock of someone being different from what you thought.

Lord knows I'm not into BDSM, and certainly not a supporter of misogynist fucktards, but this feels way to much like the witch hunt versus gays or pedophiles to me. People had better be pretty careful before they damn someone based on some internet quotes taken out of context. They might regret it later when things become clearer.

Re:Crazy

[BarbaraHudson]

I have no problem whatsoever sitting down with people who think transsexuality is totally unacceptable.That includes a big chunk of my immediate family. I just don't let their problems with it get into my head. So things are okay. They don't tell me to change my views, and I don't tell them to change theirs. That's what mutual respect is all about. If you can only tolerate views that agree with yours, your one intolerant sone-of-a-bitch.

People have the right to disagree with you. And you have the right to call them ignorant fuck-tards. See how it works?

Re:Crazy

[xtal]

If males are the submissive partner, there's no problem. When it's women, there's a problem. That's the "issue" here.

Re:Crazy

[lgw]

Well put. Tolerance is a lost art among those who speak most about it, it seems.

SJW only allow missionary position

[sinij]

SJW only allow missionary position, anything else is sinful and displeases misogyny God.

SJW purges in full swing now

[elrous0]

They got Colin Moriarty a couple of weeks ago at Kinda Funny Games too. Trump's election has produced a SJW hysteria where even conventional conservative views are no longer tolerated anywhere in the tech/entertainment industry in particular (or Silicon Valley/Southern California in general). Everyone not fully embracing the SJW agenda is being purged from their jobs. This poor guy got fired just for participating in sex roleplay that the SJW's don't like.

Re:SJW purges in full swing now

[elrous0]

Um, are you claiming that a gorean lifestyle is associated with being a conservative?

No. For all I know, this guy may consider himself a liberal. But the fact that his lifestyle deviated even *slightly* from the rigid SJW orthodoxy was enough to get him purged. He wasn't fired for participating in BDSM and talking about it. He was fired for participating in a specific type of BDSM that involves men subjugating women. If he had been blogging about gay or transsexual BDSM, the same guy who fired him would be likely be celebrating him for his "bravery."

This sort of thing doesn't even warrant being called a "double standard" anymore. It's crossed over into just flat-out political/social persecution. And it's taken on a quasi-religious orthodoxical tone that's scary as fuck.

Re:SJW purges in full swing now

[thomst]

He wasn't fired for participating in BDSM and talking about it. He was fired for participating in a specific type of BDSM that involves men subjugating women. If he had been blogging about gay or transsexual BDSM, the same guy who fired him would be likely be celebrating him for his "bravery."

No, you're altogether wrong on the details. You really should read the TechCrunch column upon which this /. story is based. It's a (admittedly lengthy) thoughtful, detailed analysis of the acceptablility of the basis on which the decision to fire the guy was based. Rightfully, I think, he concludes that it was a completely unacceptable, star-chamber-style unilateral, decision by the fucktard who made it in COMPLETE contravention of the Drupal community's published, OPEN dispute resolution process.

Just as importantly, it makes the point that the guy did NOT, EVER post any kind of public blog post about the practice or philosphy of the Gorean lifestyle. Instead, he was DOXXED by some shitheel who created an account on a PRIVATE social network of, by, and specifically for Goreans, for the purpose of gaining access to his victim's PRIVATE posts and profile thereon. The TechCrunch writer also makes the rather central point that the victim of this indefensible "process" has NEVER been accused of sexual harassment by ANY member of the Drupal community in the 12 years he has been a major contributor to that community, He has gone to great pains to keep his interest in Goreanism COMPLETELY separate from his fellow members of the Drupal development community. He has worked with female members of that community throughout as peers, and not one of them ever complained about his professionalism in that regard.

He was OUTED by an ASSHOLE, and was FIRED by ANOTHER ASSHOLE, essentially for THOUGHTCRIME.

Personally, I think he's not the one who should be "asked to resign" over this issue.

Right back at ya

[Anonymous Coward]

"when a highly-visible community member's private views become public, controversial, and disruptive for the project, I must consider the impact"

I guess you'll be resigning now then.

Re:So to sum up

[elrous0]

What you do on your own time with willing participants is your deal. Don't assume all, most or many people you interact with are willing participants. Acting out your sex fantasies on strangers usually gets you in trouble, not sure why this would be any different except less trouble.

He wasn't fired for talking about his sex life. He was fired because he was participating in sexual roleplay that offended the SJW orthodoxy.

If this guy had been talking about transsexual/gay/bi-sexual BDSM , the same people who fired him would be cheering him on and calling him brave for being so open about it.

Would femdom be OK?

[FrankHaynes]

What if a male employee/contributor were into being dominated by women? Would that be OK?

Re: Would femdom be OK?

[Type44Q]

Of course, just not the reverse - it isn't compatible with the current unofficial official narrative.

Real Question: Consensual or Non-Consensual?

[sehlat]

Binary Solution Set

If Consensual, it's nobody's business but the participants, and certainly not the business of the project.

If Non-Consensual, call the police.

How incredibly embarrassing!

[Anonymous Coward]

To be outed as a Drupal developer.

Not suprising

[110010001000]

Isn't anyone who develops using Drupal or PHP into BSDM?

Re:So to sum up

[lgw]

If this guy had been talking about transsexual/gay/bi-sexual BDSM

Apparently the BDSM rejects such labels as too narrow and arbitrary. LGBTBBQ stuuf doesn't even register on the BSDM weird-o-meter. This has actually caused some bad blood between the communities.

"Why can't you support the gay cause? Don't you know how much we suffer?"
"Oh? You think you know suffering?"

Dibs on the popcorn franchise.

WTF?

[Opportunist]

Why the fuck would I care about a developer's sex life? Who gives a shit how he fucks as long as he doesn't fuck up the code he delivers?

Oh how far we've come

[don_combatant]

I remember the days when it was republicans and conservatives discriminating against people because of their sexual preferences.

So fucking what? (Literally).

[jcr]

So the guy's a pervert: does that mean his code quit working? Is he trying to fuck other contributors? Has he done anything to anyone without their consent?

I've worked with plenty of people in my time who are into things that I don't approve of, from voting for socialists to trying to be Heinlein characters, but if they don't bring it to the office, it's none of my business. That goes double for an open-source project where they're donating their work.

Enough with the goddamned neo-puritans. There's work to be done, for fuck's sake.

-jcr

Re:Inherent superiority

[jellomizer]

There is also a gap in what a persons fantasy life is vs what they publicly say and do. Ones fantasy life may not be inline with their own values. I am sure most of us has some sexual fetish that others will find distasteful. And we well know if we fully try to find our fantasy it will be just impractical.
This is the problem on spying on people and digging up dirt on them. They find something then extrapolate an intention that isn't based on reality.