Slashdot Mirror
Prominent Drupal, PHP Developer Kicked From the Drupal Project Over Unconventional Sex Life (techcrunch.com)
An anonymous Slashdot reader writes: Last week the Drupal community erupted in anger after its leader, Dries Buytaert, asked Larry Garfield, a prominent Drupal contributor and long-time member of the Drupal and PHP communities, "to leave the Drupal project." Buytaert claims he did this "because it came to my attention that he holds views that are in opposition with the values of the Drupal project." A huge furor has erupted in response -- not least because the reason clearly has much to do with Garfield's unconventional sex life. [Garfield is into BDSM, and is a member of the Gorean community, "a community who are interested in, and/or participate in, elaborate sexual subjugation fantasies, in which men are inherently superior to women."] Buytaert made his post (which is now offline) in response after Larry went public, outing himself to public opinion. Buytaert retorted (excerpt available via TechCrunch): "when a highly-visible community member's private views become public, controversial, and disruptive for the project, I must consider the impact [...] all people are created equally. [sic] I cannot in good faith support someone who actively promotes a philosophy that is contrary to this [...] any association with Larry's belief system is inconsistent with our project's goals [...] I recused myself from the Drupal Association's decision [to dismiss Garfield from his conference role] [...] Many have rightfully stated that I haven't made a clear case for the decision [...] I did not make the decision based on the information or beliefs conveyed in Larry's blog post." TechCrunch columnist Jon Evans goes on to "unpack" the questions that naturally arise from these "Code of Conduct conflicts."
It seems like they don't practice what they preach. Sounds like SJW idiocracy. Their security guy must be a real closet case. As in preachy/crazy
Today I learned that Drupal had rules about sex. It must be for a plug-in.
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
A christian, hebew or Muslim about their religion - they're into the same stuff! Men dominating women. And in the original texts of Hebrew is the basis of sharia law.
So does that mean we need to kick all Cananite religions from all computing projects?
What about medicine? Would you want a Hebrew doctor to serve you and save your life? I would!
Does America teach history or thinking anymore?
>Buytaert claims he did this "because it came to my attention that he holds views that are in opposition with the values of the Drupal project. [...]in which men are inherently superior to women."]
This is crazy. Who cares about his sex life? Aren't we above that type of thing??? Besides, such role-playing sex fantasy has nothing to do with men being "superior" to women, in fact, it is often the other way around and still has nothing to do with "real life".
This is not a social club or religion, it is a set of computer program tools. It would be difference if his CODING or PROJECT philosophy ran contrary to the the group, because that is actually related to the project. Even then there should be some amount of tolerance.
I abhor some of the political correctness going around, but generally I am intolerant of intolerance. Hopefully others in the Drupal project agree.
Everything that is not SJW, including BDSM, is hated by SJWs. So much for "diversity". Which sexual niche is next? Promiscuous men? Obviously, only rapists want to sleep with many women. Porn? Exploitation of women! Except of course if its porn for women, then its "liberation".
SJWs are on the path to getting worse than the church.
And the worst thing of them all is, they push their human hating agenda into technical communities that have nothing to do with any of these things. Its sad how the democrats are infested by that filth.
It's wrong for (white) men to subjugate women, demean them, or harass them in the office.
Yes, period.
Except if you are into BDSM involving fantasies of sexual slavery of women. Or you're a muslim. Or non-white.
What you do on your own time with willing participants is your deal. Don't assume all, most or many people you interact with are willing participants. Acting out your sex fantasies on strangers usually gets you in trouble, not sure why this would be any different except less trouble.
Here is the correct link to Dries' blog post on the subject: http://buytaert.net/living-our-values
Irony is that the 'living our values' blog post is anything but living our values in the Drupal community.
SJW only allow missionary position, anything else is sinful and displeases misogyny God.
They got Colin Moriarty a couple of weeks ago at Kinda Funny Games too. Trump's election has produced a SJW hysteria where even conventional conservative views are no longer tolerated anywhere in the tech/entertainment industry in particular (or Silicon Valley/Southern California in general). Everyone not fully embracing the SJW agenda is being purged from their jobs. This poor guy got fired just for participating in sex roleplay that the SJW's don't like.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
"when a highly-visible community member's private views become public, controversial, and disruptive for the project, I must consider the impact"
I guess you'll be resigning now then.
What you do on your own time with willing participants is your deal. Don't assume all, most or many people you interact with are willing participants. Acting out your sex fantasies on strangers usually gets you in trouble, not sure why this would be any different except less trouble.
He wasn't fired for talking about his sex life. He was fired because he was participating in sexual roleplay that offended the SJW orthodoxy.
If this guy had been talking about transsexual/gay/bi-sexual BDSM , the same people who fired him would be cheering him on and calling him brave for being so open about it.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
There was a gorean fellow a few years ago who had a tendency to leave bodies in sealed drums in storage lockers... apparently un-willing participants
Sometimes it is best to leave things in the closet and not chat it up in the workplace
Uh, I'm not quite sure how to parse your post.
On the one hand it sounds like you think that it's a good idea for people's sex-lives to remain private. On the other hand it almost seems like you're implying that the bodies sealed in drums thing just should remain undisclosed.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
What if a male employee/contributor were into being dominated by women? Would that be OK?
slashdot: A failed experiment.
Or the women are into it, too. Get that??
Binary Solution Set
If Consensual, it's nobody's business but the participants, and certainly not the business of the project.
If Non-Consensual, call the police.
To be outed as a Drupal developer.
It's wrong for (white) men to subjugate women, demean them, or harass them in the office.
Except if you are into BDSM involving fantasies of sexual slavery of women.
Yes, that's what fantasies are. Feel free to fantasize about anything you like, just don't bring it into the office.
You're making some idiotic assumptions about what BDSM is. I'm a female bondage model the shit you're saying is just plain wrong. My girlfriend is also into bondage and nothing we've ever done has involved any of the bullshit you spew.
What's with bringing up minority races? What does that have to do with anything? You wouldn't happen to be a Trump supporter that pretends to not be racist, would you?
Isn't anyone who develops using Drupal or PHP into BSDM?
At one point homosexuality was against the law, still is in some places.
Prolly a few old state statutes left on the books here in the US, especially the south (bible belt).
I have plenty of common sense, I just choose to ignore it. -- Calvin
People should be free to believe and fantasize as they want. No one should be excluded for have different views. It's too much of a slippery slope. People should only be accountable for their actions and to a limited extent their ability to reasonably interact with others by the established consensus of a common code of conduct.
Just because a belief isn't from an established religion doesn't mean it can be arbitrarily discounted by the majority. There is way too much of this Social Justice bullshit going on. It's just code. Code should not be attached to any social addenda one way or the other. It's those that call for such that should be publicly outed and pitied for they are far more dangerous than those that think the world is flat.
Well, he does have a point. When leaving bodies in sealed drums, you really shouldn't chat about it in the workplace.
Therefore, by the (faulty) logic you're using, you're just a cow with a keyboard - osu-neko (2604)
If this guy had been talking about transsexual/gay/bi-sexual BDSM
Apparently the BDSM rejects such labels as too narrow and arbitrary. LGBTBBQ stuuf doesn't even register on the BSDM weird-o-meter. This has actually caused some bad blood between the communities.
"Why can't you support the gay cause? Don't you know how much we suffer?"
"Oh? You think you know suffering?"
Dibs on the popcorn franchise.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
There are plenty of fantasies that people have that would give them a heart attack if they ever actually got the chance to go through it. Being able to fly like superman? Nice fantasy, but imagine how someone with a fear of heights (or even just a normal person) was standing at the end of a cliff and saying "I can fly - but NO F'ING WAY".
Or fantasizing about rushing into a burning building to save people, or confronting a bomb-toting, ak-47 shooting terrorist, but they know full well they would freeze up in real life.
Or even just something as simple as choking the living shit out of their stupid boss or taking a cattle prod to them, BOfH-style. They might fantasize about it, but they would be horrified with themselves if they ever caught themselves in the process of actually doing it.
Maybe it's Dreis Barf-head who needs to be booted until he learns the difference between reality and fantasy. Or does he also believe that furries are into beastiality?
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Open Source has plenty of infighting over belief systems. But this? Say what? We are talking about an excellent developer\contributor. So what if he is into that style of BDSM. So are the adult consenting women. What exactly is Dries trying to communicate here? Intolerance? Is he a Christian? If so, so what. This is the height of dumnfuckery and makes the whole project look bad. How does making the project look bad fit in with values of the project? Because that is what Dries is doing.
Alternative: There is some serious bad blood between the two and Dries is acting like a child trying to find a shred of anything to get rid of Larry and is making himself and the project look bad in the process.
I say down with Dries. Off with his head.
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
The URL above is incorrect. Buytaert's response is here:
http://buytaert.net/living-our...
Gor is both a lifestyle and a philosophy to some. To others it's just a way to enjoy BDSM or power exchange sex play. It's founded on a set of books written by John Norman that state repeatedly that pretty much all women secretly want to be enslaved and brutally raped by a Real Man. This is at direct odds with the "Safe, Sane Consensual" rule espoused by most power exchange communities. To truly and deeply participate in a Gorean lifestyle is to utterly disavow gender equality, at least in those circles.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
Most BDSM practitioners align "SJW". These are conservative values that kicked him out.
I'm trying to keep track here. Do we have to remove Gorean from the Gender list now?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Why do I get the feeling things would have gone completely differently if this developer had been into femdom, where the woman dominates the man?
You owe it to yourself to resist the temptation at the water cooler to share what you did with the bodies last night.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
No recourse, no labor boards, no money. Just Mob.
Nothing to hide, nothing to fear.... nope, still doesn't work.
Nobody cares about men "slaves"... actually some do, but only if they're black...
I've always had the attitude that if one is to break the law, break only one law at a time.
Your drug runners example, with the money involved in the illegal drug trade there's no excuse to use a moron with a poorly-maintained car to transport the drugs, unless there's a specific reason to do so. Makes one wonder if there was an ulterior motive for a choice so stupid and blatant as someone that's going to get high while driving a car that has a legitimate excuse for being pulled over while carrying possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of drugs. Wouldn't it just be safer concoct a reason to be in the destination city, then rent a car for the trip? Makes me wonder if there was a problem with the deal and one party needed it to fall through, or if party-C needed party-B (the runner) who normally works for party-A to get busted to help put more heat on party-A.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Well, on the bright side, this tells me to stay far, far away from the Drupal project and anything it produces. They're far more interested in pushing their political agenda (or virtue signalling, at least) than putting out quality software, which is a rather massive strike against trusting their code, particularly in an era where security is so important and many are willing to go to extreme lengths to achieve their political goals.
Why the fuck would I care about a developer's sex life? Who gives a shit how he fucks as long as he doesn't fuck up the code he delivers?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I remember the days when it was republicans and conservatives discriminating against people because of their sexual preferences.
Easy decision: is it legal? If not, let him face justice. Otherwise, it looks like a ban for opinions. Fine, but Drupal will have to set up a list of allowed or forbidden opinions. That will not be pretty.
Dries post is still up:
http://buytaert.net/living-our...
-Myke
If this guy had been talking about transsexual/gay/bi-sexual BDSM
Apparently the BDSM rejects such labels as too narrow and arbitrary. LGBTBBQ stuff doesn't even register on the BSDM weird-o-meter [snip]
LGBTBBQ+! Are you trying to offend people??!
Maybe he was too good compared to the rest of the PHP team?
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
So the guy's a pervert: does that mean his code quit working? Is he trying to fuck other contributors? Has he done anything to anyone without their consent?
I've worked with plenty of people in my time who are into things that I don't approve of, from voting for socialists to trying to be Heinlein characters, but if they don't bring it to the office, it's none of my business. That goes double for an open-source project where they're donating their work.
Enough with the goddamned neo-puritans. There's work to be done, for fuck's sake.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Hm, I will remember that. I mean the chatting ...
Uh, and that reminds me to get rid of the drums.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Do problems like this have anything to do with the bizarre user-level error messages that Drupal likes to throws off when it is misconfigured?
Perhaps he should get some guru meditation.
This whole thread is starting to sound like a BOFH episode.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
THIS pretty much.
If he's not abusing coworkers or his spouse/significant other, and his work is good, it should not matter how he chooses to fly his flag. I don't care. Probably almost nobody using Drupal has even heard of the guy, much less worried about his hobbies.
Sig for hire.
There's only one "a" in "bestiality".
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
The authorities catch a few even though they had a good plan and execution, and you're correct; some of these are probably coordinated arrests to satisfy some other aspect of the competition.
It still seems likely a significantly higher portion of the arrests are culling out the folks unsuited to the task.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Gotta be tolerant. Have to be. It is intolerable to not be tolerant. Unless people have different opinions and beliefs, in which case they must be intolerant, and then you must be intolerant of their intolerance. Just be careful you don't become intolerant of your own intolerance because that would be intolerable.
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
Everyone seems to be convinced this wouldn't happen to a women in the same situation. I wonder if this is grounds for discrimination a lawsuit?
He probably should. Even if he doesn't win, it will publicize what kind of people are running drupal.
Backdrop also looks nice if your into CMS scene. No need to waste time supporting projects run by intolerant dipshits.
People who care about social issues wouldn't give a shit.
It's the right wing puritans from the far side of crazy who want to carefully regulate what is going on in the bedrooms.
Didn't the massive fuss over a bared nipple at the superbowl teach you anything?
There is nothing correct about it.
It's puritanism.
It's coming from the opposite direction from the people who want fairness, truth and less blackface "humor".
If he wasn't attempting to impose his preferences and was instead having a sex life with consenting partners and a consenting community, what business is it of the project or Buytaert?
There's a whole world of sexual preferences out there that may or may not offend some part of the community. Furries? Diapers/"adult infants?" Feet? Dominance/Submission (which I think is distinct from BDSM)? Homosexuality? Poly?
Heck, I'm not into that BDSM and even I know that there are wide variations even in the BDSM community, some of which Buytaert probably wouldn't even care about. Just offhand I know that there are people into spanking, piercings/body mods (is this tied in?), rope bondage, and probably things I've never heard of or considered along with the "traditional" portrayal of BDSM with restraints and floggers, crops etc.
I'm a vanilla white boy from the midwestern suburbs, but I'm pretty sure that taken as a whole those "alternative sexuality" communities are overall much more accepting of kinks (YKIOKBINMK) and also more sensitive to people being coerced or (involuntarily) mistreated than almost all of the Good Citizens that I went to High School with.
(YKIOKBINMK = Your Kink Is OK But Is Not My Kink)
fencepost
just a little off
Dries Buytaert "ask[ed] Larry [Garfield] not to participate in the Drupal project" and Buytaert said his choice Buytaert said was based in part on "confidential information that I've received" about "omissions in Larry's blog post" concerning Garfield's sex life leading Buytaert to "[suffer] from varying degrees of shock and concern". Yet open source long prided itself on being a developmental methodology which eschews certain outside considerations, most notably software freedom. Software freedom is not relevant for consideration on its own merit, and a user's software freedom is an issue that needlessly drives away open source's principal audience—businesses. Therefore it was understandable, even if one disagreed, when an open source advocate would chastise the free software movement along the lines of including such foreign concerns like ethics into what makes software free and how one ought to treat others with regard to computers and software. Apparently other outside concerns are more acceptable and open source (a developmental methodology) values more than just development released under an OSI-approved license to make software which "drive[s] innovation" resulting in a promised "higher quality, greater reliability, more flexibility, lower cost, and an end to predatory vendor lock-in".
In an update to his blog post, Buytaert also says that Garfield will be deplatformed (as the neologism goes), "the Drupal Association made a decision not to invite Larry to speak at DrupalCon Baltimore or serve as a track chair for it" presumably for the same secret reasons that so shocked and concerned Buytaert—Buytaert "can't get past the fundamental misalignment of values" wherein "Larry has entwined his private and professional online identities". So there's no room for someone who believes in "The Gorean philosophy promoted by Larry [which] is based on the principle that women are evolutionarily predisposed to serve men and that the natural order is for men to dominate and lead.". And this decision comes from the man who is described as "the [Drupal] project's dictator for life, the CTO of a company with powerful influence on the open source project, the president of the Board of Directors".
Digital Citizen
Something doesn't seem right here. Everyone on slashdot and I suspect most of the Western World would agree that what someone's consensual sex life is their own private thing and has nothing to do with an open source project. I find it hard to believe that a person in Dries Buytaert position would publicly ask someone to leave a project in such a way. There has to be more to the story.
Most BDSM practitioners align "SJW". These are conservative values that kicked him out.
No, it wasn't. He was kicked out because his sexual proclivities include the domination of women, specifically. To quote Buytaert word-for-word:
In the end, I fundamentally believe that all people are created equally. This belief has shaped the values that the Drupal project has held since it's early days. I cannot in good faith support someone who actively promotes a philosophy that is contrary to this. The Gorean philosophy promoted by Larry is based on the principle that women are evolutionarily predisposed to serve men and that the natural order is for men to dominate and lead.
You are correct that traditionally it'd be conservatives making a stink about someones sexual proclivities. That has changed, and is no longer true (well, never really was for some people, like the radicals who think that all sex between men and women is rape). Nowadays, nominally "liberals" are also opposed to certain kinds of sexual behavior, if such behavior doesn't fall into their acceptable category. They usually define "acceptable" different than conservatives, though in this case they both more or less agree.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
If you're going to kick people out for elaborate fantasies, are they going to ban anyone that calls that admin interface user friendly? ;)
I don't mind getting modded down to zero but what sort of idiots modded the whining Godwin rant above up to 5? Comparing a guy getting kicked out of a project to mass murder - how is that insightful?
This is between two consenting adults? How about you bud out of other people's personal lives.
I guarantee you anything involving sexual taboos comes from the right.
Fuck, I have to put up with people who condone and advocate the torture, mistreatment and traumatic murder of innocent animals.
And eat them.
Including horses.
And make openly offensive jokes and insults on my chosen dietary regime.
And I have to TOLERATE them every day, and watch them consume their evil stinking unhealthy steaks.
So I do.
I do tolerate them. I laugh with them. I live with them. I worh with them, and they work with their obviously "insane" vegetarian colleague.
Cause we're adults, not whiney self-important snowflakes. Fuck Drupal.
They should terminate the employment of this neo-fascist manager with prejudice.
And I have to tolerate people that intentionally poison themselves, and their children inside their vehicles, and expect to be allowed to do so, without interference from me. They're called "smokers". And I do tolerate the, quite happily, because there but for the grace of God, go I. And personal liberty. And whatever ...
Fucking world's gone politically "correctly" insane ...
If there's a case for it, it comes from the statement
"participate in, elaborate sexual subjugation fantasies, in which men are inherently superior to women."
The claim presumably being that the person believes this to be the case. What we then have is a free speech issue; is it still acceptable to believe that statement, or is it no longer covered by freedom of speech principles. Either position is problematic.
If it's a wrongful dismissal, then it's better to lawyer up before you start talking about it in public forums. There's a protocol to follow. Might even get crowdfunding from other Gors.
It looks to me like somebody outed this guy, and then he got fired. It didn't sound like he was bringing it to work with him. I wouldn't consider it a frivolous lawsuit.
If it's roleplay, and the participants are able to acknowledge this and function in society while adhering to standard social norms, that's one thing. But to my knowledge, many of the Gorean types are the ones that don't see it as roleplay and see it as a genuine lifestyle. These are people for whom the idea of regressive male/female relations are a fact of life.
If it's roleplay, that's a completely different discussion and it isn't something people should really get worked up over. But one of the big differentiators that I've heard between Goreans and the typical BDSM scene is that the Goreans live it and don't play it.
And you know what, if it means being called an SJW to say that kind of lifestyle and view of other people is fucking horseshit, I'll take that label gladly.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
There's usually not much blood. Usually.
Pain? Well, pain is relative.
We almost certain disagree wildly when it comes to politics, and probably other subjects, but that's fine, and I agree with you 100% on this issue. I've done some of the most productive and enjoyable work in my life alongside people with whom I do not share a lot of viewpoints, but it doesn't matter. We were there to do a job, and we worked well together and produced great results, despite our personal differences. Maybe even because of them. And yes, we had some spirited discussions over lunch, but when it was time to work, we worked together.
People's private lives are private. Unless they decide to make it a problem, it's not a problem, and shouldn't get in the way of Getting Shit Done.
Eat the rich.
Larry's belief system is inconsistent with our project's goals
Larry's belief system seems to be that consenting adults can act out in their private life something far less sociopathic than what millions of middleaged women fantasize about over bestselling erotic novels.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
We have to face the plain and simple truth: There is public and there is private.
Point in case: I recently (again) met a woman who is into Gangbang and porn ( you'd be surprised how many women are). She's smart, independant, witty, well-mannered, can talk for hours about "God and the World" as we say in Germany. She's my age and looks gorgeous. And she fucks like a pornstar (no surprise here) and also loves to have a few guys on her all at once and no problem with indulging in that. This is the type of woman I have the deepest respect and admiration for. I even asked her if she has a friend from her camp, because I'm currently single and would like to have a sweetheart of her format (she's married ... bummer ...).
Yet there is no doubt that people like her (and me) have to be careful about being to outspoken and unphased when talking about our sexlives. Were I am comfortable and have crossed a few inner borders on my perspective on sex, I have to be aware that most people around me haven't and are still squarely in the "average frustrated" camp - men and women alike. I told her that I have the deepest respect and admiration for women "who know how to spread their legs, enjoy herself and f*ck the living daylights out of a good man ... or a few as the case may be" and got a very positive reaction from her. But mentioning this in public we both agreed, would be bound to get the exact opposite reaction. She'd be slutshamed (the most careful woman with condoms ever) and I would be called a misogynist, despite being the exact opposite ... I usually give women a surplus of respect and sometimes more than they deserve.
Bottom line:
I can totally understand if a project lead wants to keep his project clean of these errrm " unconventional" things. We all live in a culture and have to have some groundrules we follow. Keeping an unusual sexlife to yourself or only with people whom it concerns is a huge part of that.
My 2 eurocents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
That's right. Women and men acting out fantasies which are entirely consensual and, by definition, involve no real transfer of power, in private, are entirely fine, because nobody is subjugating anyone else.
I've yet to hear a single so-called SJW argue that Muslims are right to subjugate women.
What almost everyone on the left believes is that simply being a Muslim doesn't mean you're deserving of hatred, that you should be dehumanized, that you should be blamed for terrorism, that you should be attacked, or that you should be forced to live in countries governed by extremists.
Kinda like we'd defend conservatives too if we were told they all inherently support terrorism, or that they shouldn't be allowed in this country if they're trying to escape a fascist regime.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Then he's a fucking moron, and he's going to be in for a shock when he gets condemned by the wider social justice community. Acting out Gorean fantasies doesn't mean you believe, in real life, in the subjugation of women any more than acting out Star Wars fantasies means you believe in The Force.
Conservatives still seem to be where the majority of attacks on sexual activities, especially non-"normal" sexual activities, comes from.
Do liberals do it? You'll find one or two, just as you'll find any large community has its outliers. But in reality, it's telling that the major schism that lead to the end of Second Wave Feminism and the birth of Third Wave was sex, and the degree to which Second Wave leaned towards prescribing right and wrong sexual behaviors, something unsustainable given human needs. Third Wave is known as "Sex positive", and it was the result of a sizable amount of debate involving everyone from sex workers to the BDSM community that drove Third Wave in that direction.
To put it another way: it's always been the case that the two groups have had people within them that want to control other people's sex lives. Liberals have traditionally done that less than Conservatives. And Liberals are less prescriptive than they were, not more.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
There was some research a few years ago now in the UK. Big study - some tens of thousands of participants. Goal was to understand the origin and function of adult sexual fantasy. So, it's just research, not the word of God; but it's interesting - what the study found was that sexual fantasy in adults appears to be a coping mechanism for stress. The fantasy is a recapitulation, often modified, of an original trauma. Basically, when we are traumatized, we have trauma, and trauma has *expression*. It's like being shot. If you're shot, there's a hole, blood, bits of bone, etc. You can't *be* shot and not have that. Similarly, to *be* traumatized means you hurt, you're in pain, etc. It's there. The subconscious mind seems to hide traum from the conscious mind, presumably so we can continue to function. However, the expression of the trauma *will go somwhere*. It's like water pressure. If you have a mass of pipes and put water into them, it doesn't matter what you do with the pipes - block them, change them around, whatever. The water *will go somewhere*. In this case, what seems to be happening is that trauma defines the sexual fantasy. Almost all people fantasize, and there is almost always a *theme*, around which the fantasies revolve. The theme is the original trauma. The fantasy is a way of letting out, of expressing, the harm of the traum. Often the fantasy modifies the original traumatic event to make it more bearable - if someone was abused, they can become the abuser. Sexual fantasy is an extra-ordinary thing. Imagine we fantasize about something which doesn't work for us. Any response? no. Now think about what works for you. What do you see? a profound physiological response. It's incredible - heart rate up, arousal, the body itself becoming very different. This is remarkable. So we see something special is going on here. With regard to BDSM, it looks like with this the origin is a very deep down, very profound *anger*. Whether someone is dominant or submissive doesn't matter - the origin is the same in both cases. What this does mean is that there's no harm in such fantasy or play - it is a symptom only; and indeed, it is most likely a very good thing, since it lets people release the pressure of the trauma, which needs to be expressed, rather than letting it build up. Almost all people fantasize - 94%. Another 3% fantasize only about their own partner. Another 3% have no fantasy at all. I suspect these last few are the only sane, undamaged people amongst use. The rest of us fantasize about people other than our partner - and probably are doing this while engaging in sex with our partner. We in our society talk a lot about extra-marital affairs being wrong - but no one is talking about *intra-marital* affairs, where the married couple are both thinking about other people during sex with each other.
Is it? Suppose, he was into homo rather than heterosexual subjugation... Do you suppose, they would've banished him just as well — even if he were open about it?
Sorry, short forum posts don't lend themselves to nuances - I meant fair game for people knowing. If you choose to make it public you do so aware of how society might react (regardless of the wrongs and rights of the reaction), but in this case it sounds like he was "outed" against his will.
Sigs are so 1990s. No way would I be seen dead with one.
If they were concerned about his bias towards women in the bedroom translating to outside the bedroom, then shouldn't we be worried about gay men? They clearly don't think women can do the job in the bedroom at all, so they probably don't even hire women right?
Since when does a PHP project have beliefs and values. Project goals should be "Fix X bug" "Implement Y feature"
The key word in "sexual fantasy" is "fantasy". Lots of people have very politically-incorrect sexual fantasies, but as long as they act them out only with consensual partners and don't let it spill into their professional lives, what's the problem?
I think this sort of issue is inevitable in software. The most effective boardroom personalities are typically focused on controlling their environment and standardizing culture. The most effective Dev's are opposed to this, they are open minded and solution focused. So you're bound to get this :[Insert unusual interest] has been condemned by [Insert company board representative], this has been widely criticized by the development community at large.
The SJW will scream "What a travesty! It shows total intolerance for alternative lifestyles!"
Then they will scream "His lifestyle denigrates women? Burn him alive! This was totally justified!"
The cognitive dissonance will be fascinating to watch.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
"Or does he also believe that furries are into beastiality?"
Well, quite a few of them are. They're called Zoos.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
No, he will not be condemned by the "wider social justice community" because it appears that Larry Garfield believes that all (or, at least most) women want to be dominated by men. He, also, apparently believes that they need to come to that realization on their own before a man asserts dominance over them.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
A developer who gets laid?
It would make me take code review time much more seriously.
'Spaces' not 'tabs'...time for the strapon...won't do that twice. If they do, you fire the perv.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
People are stupid. What you describe does happen. But more often than not, the cops have a snitch and are making up a reason so (s)he isn't implicated.
Also: The official area drug dealer. Part of police payoffs is giving the cops a competitor, so they look like they are doing their jobs.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Do you like pain? Then try wearing a corset!
You know normaly, i would say its wrong of Drupal of doing this, but for any god"Â$"Â$"Â Gorean $%"Â$"Â$"Â$Â" its just right.
Except he was outed by a few SJWs in the Drupal community. They referred to his profile, which was on an account required private server as evidence that he was 'a bad man'. He was accused of being sexist and discriminatory towards women, despite his being an author of the founding rules that said no discrimination based on sex was allowable, and despite female colleagues that worked with him stating that he was helpful and agnostic towards gender, treating everyone equally. This is pure SJW targetting and outing. The SJWs in question should be banned from the community for violating the non-discrimination and harrassment, and right to privacy rules of the Drupal community.
I look at the border smuggling as a different ball of wax, mostly because if the authorities chose to, they could search basically any vehicle crossing the border that they want to, suspicious or not. The border checkpoint itself acts as a pre-existing roadblock to make the burden to conduct the search or to find suspect vehicles much lower.
On the open road away from the frontier regions where the border patrol has no jurisdiction or at least no enforcement arm, you're reliant on FBI as a federal police force, and on the various state and local agencies. If a smuggler's vehicle looks like anyone else's vehicle and sticks to the interstates and avoids stopping at roadside places where it would be subject to a random dog sniff test then it should be pretty hard to find a smuggler without a tipoff, if the car is in good repair and the driver isn't stupid.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
No, you find LOTS of people who believe in social justice. It's just that significant amounts of social justice are not justice at all.
Socialist Justice Whiners always talk about equality of outcomes, but never talk about equality of effort. If someone succeeds, it's only because they have privilege; it's never because they studied or worked hard.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
I guess this is a meta-post about the posts I see here.
I find it disturbing how common it is for people to respond to an action or statement that upsets them by assigning a label to the person who made that statement or action, and then use that label as an excuse to dismiss the value of the person, thus making it permissible to ignore their ideas without consideration, deny them the privilege of making a case for their point of view, or even express a wish for harm or perhaps commit direct or indirect harm against that person.
In my experience, every person is different, and can wear a lot of different labels, and even conflicting labels, at different points in time. Much, perhaps most, of this labeling is an exercise in laziness and unwillingness to engage with the ideas or actions themselves, granting the person full person-hood and equal inherent worth.
Maybe we need a label for people who do this, so we can dismiss and ignore them because they are not part of our in-group. I think "human" will do.
All you humans, get off my lawn.
And stop dismissing people because you think they belong to some imaginary group that you or someone else invented to stick them in, whether it's "SJWs", "Illuminati", "Libruls", "Deplorables", "Welfare Queens", or what have you. Engage with the ideas, recognize that you don't know everything, but you do know something, and contribute to the conversation without trying to dictate to everyone else. /rant
WALSTIB!
People watch and listen to public figures, their opinions, actions, etc... Now if they would not be so easily influencable, certain political figures would have a hard time selling what they are selling. People would stay true to their own beliefs, they would not change, so bad messages would fall on deaf ears....
The word derives from latin, bestial. However, I'm not confining myself to following dead languages slavishly. More and more people are spelling it "beastiality." Get over it. Or do you call wild animals "bests?"
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Simple, sufficiently accurate generalities start:
1. Almost any person who identifies as "Gorean" is into fairly severe heterosexual, male-dominant BDSM. (Otherwise they're misusing the term wildly, and it's not a common error to do so.)
2. Most men who identify as Gorean support society-wide male subjugation of females. Either that, or they are generally poseurs. (Otherwise they wouldn't bother using that term, and indeed would still be misusing it.)
3. Many people who engage in Gorean role-play don't identify as "Gorean" in real life, nor are they otherwise subject to the generalities in Point #2.
Basically, "Gorean" means a combination of:
A. What the BDSM community calls TPE (Total Power Exchange).
B. Strong opinions on how ANY woman should related to ANY man. (Or to any "true" man.)
Fuss about real-life Part B is a lot easier to justify than fuss about Part A, or of course than about a merely role-played version of Gor
All that said -- I neither know nor care to investigate the particulars of the case, such as: Was the guy just spouting noxious political views in a small group setting, or was he doing so more widely, or did his colleagues feel he was acting on those views toward them?
It might also be worth mentioning that a full set of Gorean views would include:
-- A strong set of professional ethics, different for different professions.
-- A "fuck you" attitude toward anybody who doesn't like how you conduct yourself in your private life.
To err is human. To forgive is good system design.
Thanks for the clarification. And yet... Do you expect web-sites "sharing progressive values" to ditch Drupal en masse now — the way they once called for ditching Firefox?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
> More and more people are misspelling it "beastiality."
FTFY.
A popular mistake is still a mistake.
Really? So you're going to convince Americans to spell it aluminium, honour, colour, fibre, centre, metre, theatre, flavour, humour, neighbour, travelled (double ell), oestrogen, foetus, paediatric, manoeuvre, leukaemia, defence, licence, offence, pretence, analogue, catalogue, dialogue, parlour, etc?
Never happen. Once something gets popular enough, it becomes part of the language.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Then you're really missing the whole point of this story.
Proof? Oh, you have none. Also, those of us who write it as "beastiality" do so by choice, and it's become very popular, so bite me.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
No, you've got it utterly backwards. I'm pointing out that this is puritan bedroom enforcement shit from the far side of crazy but people are blaming this on the left who do not care what you get up to in your bedrooms.
It's this sort of puritan fsr right shit that makes people shake their heads and say "only in America".
The ideal of free speech in society is to enable the free exchange of opinion / arguments in order to find the truth. The expression of an opinion that is a contribution to ongoing debate in a society should therefore not be subject to sanctions by any part of that society - thus the concept of whistleblower as well as the freedom to endorse publicly views that are unfashionable.
The examples you offer are illuminating in that they are largely beyond the purpose of free speech as I've suggested it ought to work. However in the case of an employee, it should be the case that they are not SACKED for an opinion unrelated to work, because that is to use employment as a constraint on public discussion. Which is the issue here: is this guys private behaviours and views substantially detrimental to his employability. To my mind no.
Nice strawman you've got there kid. Shame that it doesn't exist.
WTF did you people do in school? Ever thought to crack open a book?
That makes sense. Next we learn that a major Word Press contributor is into scat. Because some people enjoy wading around a pile of shit.
Ewwwww. Moving on, TMI.
Frankly he sounds more like a snivelling little coward, real men do not need to oppress the weak to prove their 'superiority'
So why aren't you pushing for using the original British standards? After all, the US is still using imperial units like the mile?
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
I'll be short because I've no time:
1) Larry hasn't been kicked, he has been demoted from a promiment community position. His Drupal.org account is still workin and he can comment on issues or post patches.
2) Is not for the sex life but for his opinions. His opinions were visible in other online identities not related to Gorean community or private life sites.
3) Larry was who made this public, and he put the focus on his sexual life. An intelligent movement, he knew all people would support him (as I did initially) but that's not the point.
4) This is a complex issue. At the end Drupal Community is taking too much damage.
It's frightening that we've gone from ReiserRS to this in less than a decade. Like, people still used the code of someone in prison for murder, but now what this guy does in his *VERY* private life means he is unqualified to continue contributing?
Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
Well it has swung the other way as well where people were being accused of being communist and getting blacklisted etc...
Basically people don't like other people who don't agree with them I guess.
My fav: "inconsistent with our project's goals"... Uh, your software project has sexual goals?
The entire point appears to be to pretend that all ills come from "SJWs" whatever the fuck that means today.
Meanwhile in reality a very traditional American right wing boss who thinks he owns people after they have gone home, and is a puritan to boot, has done exactly what Henry Ford (or Rockefeller or Hearst if you prefer them instead), would have done back in the day.
So your theory is that a "traditional right wing boss" is, as he evidently sees it, a defender of women's rights in the workplace. This is good to know.
He can see it any way he likes it but ultimately he's pissing all over somebodies rights and acting like he owns an employee after they have gone home. Thus not what he says he is.
If you look around a lot you'll see examples of a "warm caring boss" who makes noise about rights but is really a reactionary control freak prick - reading or hearing about failed companies is a good place to find them. The dot-com crash had them by the hundreds. You'll find that the bosses that do not make a show of caring are the ones that do not try to control their employees lives out of work time and who respect their employees rights far more than the ones putting on a show.
An example from the 1900s is people arguing against payouts for injured workers with the argument that it would encourage the poor factory workers to injure themselves so they would get a windfall. Of course the people pushing that line did not really care about the injured factory workers, they cared about the threat of legal action and it was just an excuse instead of the social justice line they were pretending to push.
Not incorrect, you're bullshit detector is just not working in this situation. The guy was fired "to protect women" - seriously? He was fired because the boss was a fucking prude that thinks he owns his employees after they go home. It's that simple.