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Maryland Awards 21 Grants To Prepare 'Open Source' Textbooks (usmd.edu)

"The University System of Maryland has awarded 21 "mini grants" to university faculty to "help them expand open education resources," reports OpenSource.com. Recipients of the grants are also given time off to prepare courses that use open textbooks, and will receive personalized support and training on effective course design. An anonymous reader writes: "Although our faculty view textbooks as essential, some of our students see them as a luxury they cannot afford," said Community College of Baltimore County President Sandra Kurtinitis. "Having access to open educational resources will provide some financial relief for our students as well as contribute to their academic success." The cost of textbooks has risen 812% since 1978, the school system said in an announcement, "outpacing even the cost of medical services and new housing. Nationally, students spend an average of $1,200 a year on textbooks."

The Maryland Open Source Textbook initiative started in 2013 "to provide a state-wide opportunity for faculty to explore the promise of open education resources to reduce students' cost of attendance while maintaining, or perhaps even improving, learning outcomes." Since then it's helped replace traditional textbooks in over 60 different courses at 14 public institutions across the state, resulting in a cumulative cost savings of over $1 million for 3,500 students. "In addition to saving students money, faculty have gained the ability to adapt and customize their instructional materials to ensure they are aligned with their pedagogical methods to best meet their students' needs," the school system reports. "In follow up surveys with students participating in the MOST initiative, 93% reported that the open educational resource content they used was the same or better quality than traditional textbooks."

98 comments

  1. YES! by Insanity+Defense · · Score: 2

    This is an idea I've been in favor of for years. Thumbs up!

    1. Re:YES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's fine but here's a finer idea. Give out mobile data so students can access wikipedia. It's the best weapon to fight idiotism.

    2. Re:YES! by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      When will Wikipedia use MathML instead of images for equations?

    3. Re:YES! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      When did Wikipedia *stop* using MathML?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    4. Re:YES! by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Under the Kurtosis entry, it does the formula for Kurtosis as an SVG. If Wikipedia uses MathML, why not there? It's only one entry, but still. Also, perhaps there is a setting for logged in users.

      Is there a Wikipedia entry that uses MathML?

  2. Maybe they should just reduce their fees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Textbooks probably wouldn't be viewed as a luxury if the U.S universities and colleges didn't work out how the absolute maximum they could squeeze out of students and their families in tuition and fees and then charge them that.

    1. Re:Maybe they should just reduce their fees by John+Jorsett · · Score: 1

      Textbooks probably wouldn't be viewed as a luxury if the U.S universities and colleges didn't work out how the absolute maximum they could squeeze out of students and their families in tuition and fees and then charge them that.

      What incentive do they have to do that? My old school took the profits from bookstore sales and funded all the student center stuff from it, so they'd never have cut their prices If this open textbook idea catches on, both the schools and publishers will have to reduce prices or they'll lose a ton of business, if not all of it.

    2. Re:Maybe they should just reduce their fees by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      I take GP as saying that if universities charged less for tuition, the price of tetbooks wouldn't be so bad.

    3. Re:Maybe they should just reduce their fees by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      Their incentive is perks from the publisher.

  3. Buyer's collective for existing textbooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Here's an idea. Instead of commissioning brand new textbooks, why not form a buyer's collective with other universities (particularly state university systems) looking for value-priced textbooks (but not Dover Books, I hope). Don't go after the top 3-4 titles in any subject; instead, go after some of the laggards so their publishers will be open to cutting deals instead of demanding $100+. You can ask for paperback or cut-rate editions, like the International Editions sold in India.

    That's where the department heads can exercise their good judgement, it's easy to recommend the same books used by many of the top schools but it's more challenging to look for value.

    1. Re: Buyer's collective for existing textbooks by thundercattt · · Score: 1

      I know one issue about textbooks,least here in Canada is that the bookstore selling the books is an independent company not affiliated with the school. Of course they're going to try and make a profit from a monopolized situation.

    2. Re: Buyer's collective for existing textbooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Places of higher learning (including community colleges) should just band together nationally or state level and go after all the primary subjects (that dont change much anyway) first and tackle the higher stuff with a fund each one pays a nominal fee towards. If each college paid 1 semester tuition (community college level, not harvard) toward such an endeavor, we'd have 90% of the books tackled in no time.

    3. Re: Buyer's collective for existing textbooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Places of higher learning (including community colleges) should just band together nationally or state level and go after all the primary subjects ...

      They are doing exactly that. I give you the Open Education Consortium.

      But there are lots of others. The University of Minnesota runs the Open Textbook Network.
      Of course Openstax is producing lots of curriculum.

      There are so many free textbook programs out there that the real challenge is paring down the list. Openstax seems to be emerging as the big, reliable repository.

      My news site, for lack of a better word, about free textbooks.

    4. Re:Buyer's collective for existing textbooks by FrankHaynes · · Score: 1

      Used book store.

      --
      slashdot: A failed experiment.
    5. Re: Buyer's collective for existing textbooks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They've never been a monopoly, you could order the books from other stores. With Amazon it's even easier.

    6. Re:Buyer's collective for existing textbooks by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Why? There are two things that can be improved from the perspective of a textbook author. The first is that your income is contingent on sales, so you're taking a big risk when you write a book. The publisher gives you an advance, but that's just an income free loan and if you read the contract carefully then you'll see that you can be required to pay it back if the book doesn't sell (not happened to me yet, but it could). The second is that the publisher takes the vast majority of the revenue. When they're publishing a physical book, then it makes sense that they'll take a big cut to cover production and distribution costs, but for electronic distribution they're basically doing nothing for the money. If an organisation (e.g. a group of half a dozen universities) knows that it needs enough textbooks to pay up-front to have them open sourced, then life is much better for the author: as long as your work passes their quality standards then you get paid the entire amount up front (on completion, if not on signing). And from the perspective of the students, it's even better: the textbook is paid for already, so it's free to copy. From the perspective of the institution, it's also better because they're free to modify the textbook to add material that's newer or more relevant to their curriculum.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re: Buyer's collective for existing textbooks by usuallylost · · Score: 1

      I think the limiting factor here isn’t a lack of available open source materials. Too many schools have gotten bed with the publishers and are getting a nice cut of the way over priced books. The schools for example could have gone with cheaper publishers without much trouble. They could have told their publishers to not rearrange the same text every year to make it hard on people using used books. Yet, they don’t. Simple fact is that at the end of the day it isn’t in their interests to make it cheaper for you get your books.

      Now the community college system is often a different beast. I did the first two years of my degree at the community college in my home state. They stuck with the same books until something significant changed. The campus books store always had a nice stack of used copies of every book you could need and they were the exact same book that was being sold new. When I transferred to a regular school it was entirely different. The books changed every year, sometimes every semester, and many of the professors had written their own supplemental books you had to buy. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if my old community college adopted open source books to save the students money. I suspect hell will freeze over before my university does it.

    8. Re: Buyer's collective for existing textbooks by losfromla · · Score: 1

      Nice info, thanks!

      --
      Only I can judge you.
  4. Somebody hasn't been paying their bribes by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Funny

    in Maryland. Seriously textbook industry F-. See me after class.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Somebody hasn't been paying their bribes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And don't forget your checkbook this time!

  5. Link to actual article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Here's the actual article in the diamondback - TFS links to a news aggregator that links to this:

    http://www.dbknews.com/2017/04...

  6. Won't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    The State is still going to do a poor job of educating students. Public education is just a way to keep kids off the street until they are 18, at best.

    If you care about your kids you seriously would not put them through that.

    1. Re: Won't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I'm in the UK and there is no way I'm putting my kid through public schools - I don't want her thinking those people are normal, let alone correct in their thinking.

    2. Re: Won't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I'm in the UK and there is no way I'm putting my kid through public schools - I don't want her thinking those people are normal, let alone correct in their thinking.

      http://savethesnowflakes.org/

  7. I was benefitted from a similar initiative. by gwolf · · Score: 5, Informative

    I published in 2015 a textbook about operating systems (http://sistop.org/). Besides working for a university full time, I got a grant from the LATIn Initiative from the European commission. They required me to join other authors (a requisite for participation was having at least threee coauthors, located in three different countries in Latin America), and paid each of us a very decent amount (€1200, particularly good given the wages in our region). There was, of course, a quality requirement - But the second requirement was for the licensing to be CC-BY.
    I won on all fronts due to this.

    1. Re:I was benefitted from a similar initiative. by fard69 · · Score: 1

      I have no karma to give, but thank you all the same for an informative post. Good luck.

    2. Re:I was benefitted from a similar initiative. by El+Cubano · · Score: 2

      I published in 2015 a textbook about operating systems (http://sistop.org/).

      Thanks! I had a look and began reading it last night (when I should have been sleeping). The book is very well written, thorough, and also accessible to students who are still in the early stages of learning about the field.

      I am in the process of redesigning a course which I teach on Java and business IT systems and this has inspired me to seek out new materials from the open textbook ecosystem. The current book I use is now quite outdated (the students complain about it and I don't like it) and the new edition removes many of the topics I teach in the course.

      This has definitely been a big step in the right direction for me.

  8. Re:capitalist exploitation by John+Jorsett · · Score: 2

    The capitalist class are exploiting open source more than ever. Capitalists can't resist the promise of free labor, and the best part is the capitalists don't have to employ any of the young naive laborers. Open source means the work is publicly available and ripe for the taking. Capitalists just take everything and give nothing in return. Open source developers don't get paid anything, and developers live in poverty while capitalists make billions.

    Explain how the "capitalist class" is going to make undeserved money from a resource made freely available at no cost to all. Sure, Red Hat et al earn money from Linux, but it's for the value-added they furnish. If you don't want to give them money, you can still download the product without paying, you'll just have to be your own support.

  9. Seriously inflated statistics by chrism238 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    "Nationally, students spend an average of $1,200 a year on textbooks" - this claim is extremely difficult to believe. Given the 'ready' availability of most common textbooks as PDFs or ePubs via the internet, and even their solutions manuals, where are all these honest fools spending over $1000/yr on textbooks? There's certainly not seen in classrooms.

    1. Re:Seriously inflated statistics by Geodesy99 · · Score: 1

      Graduate school, definitely $1000+, and junior and senior year especially in comp sci and engineering, more so in niche sub-specialties in those fields. Generally, you are correct though, see http://www.uspirg.org/news/usp...

    2. Re:Seriously inflated statistics by OwnedByTwoCats · · Score: 1

      5 courses/term * 2 terms/year * 1 book / course * $100/book = $1000/year. Simple Stoichiometry.

  10. cable companies will object and file suite by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    They are scared this set the precedent for government providing low cost broadband.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  11. Cheap 1st/2nd year textbooks, expensive years 3+ by StandardCell · · Score: 3, Informative

    I think this is generally a fantastic idea. Nothing has really changed in subjects such as calculus, linear algebra, chemistry and biology in decades if not centuries for some subjects. Heck, I used my dad's control systems textbook from the 60s to learn. My fear is that publishers will start charging people on the back end of this for more specialized textbooks that are more typical in third and fourth year courses or specialized graduate courses. So, free textbooks for the two-year community college crowd, but $500 textbooks for process control of chemical reactors and digital signal processing.

    The real underlying problem here is that student loans are the only type of debt that can't be discharged under bankruptcy, and that has created a moral hazard for post-secondary institutions to accelerate their costs. Tuition has also greatly and disproportionately increased in cost because students can get mortgage-like terms for their student debt, but institutions don't have any responsibility to make sure they graduate or make money. Meanwhile, endowments, perks and expensive buildings keep going up on campuses with little marginal benefit to students. The cherry on top is the IMO bizarre cultural support in this country for post-secondary institutions from alumni and through college sports.

    If you really want to solve the textbook crisis, solve the debt crisis in education and allow discharge of student debt in bankruptcy at the same time as you investigate the publishers for any type of RICO or antitrust activity. The system will take a few years to clean out, but the issue will eventually be solved. The best part will be that tuitions will eventually come down to sane levels again, although that will be at the expense of the administrators and faculty who are more concerned about pretty buildings and social justice than they are about academic and human progress.

  12. Re:State funded textbooks are biased by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    and science books that claim transsexuals deserve their own bathrooms

    We don't want our own bathrooms. We just want you to leave us alone so we can pee in peace.

  13. Army of Angry Publisher Lawyers Coming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Publishers of university text books are rounding up an army of lawyers to descend on UM and Washington D.C. to quell this abhorable insurrection.

    Students are not the "privileged" class! They should be proud to pay, i.e. their parents pay, $12,000 for a Chemistry, Mathematics, Physics and Medical text book and love the feeling!

    Publishers like John Wiley & Sons will retaliate with Federal laws, passed by Congress, to out-law open source publishing of any kind and re-ward the out-laws with university text books costing $120,000!

    Greed ... is Good! It POWERS the mind, enlivens the Heart, Fills the Soul.

    Jajajajajajajaja

  14. Don't get too excited by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The grants are indeed "mini" - ranging from "$500 to $2500". Although it's a step in the right direction, that won't pay for much quality curriculum (see https://www.slideshare.net/debralewis/curriculum-develop-cost-time-example).

  15. Tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The summary was to long, so I'm assuming this is about using state taxpayer funds to translate textbooks into Ebonics?

    1. Re:Tl;dr by losfromla · · Score: 1

      oh, the irony!

      --
      Only I can judge you.
  16. Control and profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Professors usually have total control over the textbooks used in their classes. In many cases the digital e-textbooks offered are hideously crippled -- DRM-linked to a single device, no cut/paste/copy, no highlighting or notes, and they erase themselves 10 days after the semester ends. Is it any wonder students still elect to pay extra for a real book? It has better functionality and resale value.

    1. Re:Control and profit by Beeftopia · · Score: 2

      It's time for university "non-profit" status to be re-examined, as everything they do is designed to maximize revenue.

    2. Re:Control and profit by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

      With a webcam any textbook can be copied in an hour or less. From that time on, it's just a bunch of JPEGs that can be distributed freely until you're caught.

      Do a good job photographing, and the images can be converted back to text.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    3. Re: Control and profit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Except now coursework and tests are supplied by the textbook publisher too, saving the tutor work, and these are only available with an active $100+ subscription (and one student per subscription).

  17. Re:capitalist exploitation by Geodesy99 · · Score: 2

    You seriously do not understand the ecosystem. Many of the major projects have core teams which are FTEs of the company, and others donate funds for outside contractors that are key contributors. Far from being paid nothing, I've known several that began as unpaid contributors and eventually went direct, started their own companies to service their piece, or received federal grants ( from the US Army for instance ). Other projects start on a purely unpaid volunteer effort, become essential and evolve into well funded projects. Firefox was originally a commercial product, then donated as open source, and now has spun off some of it's projects. IBM, Google, and others have transferred many internal projects into the open domain. Far from exploitation, FOSS is almost hyper-capitalistic, in that it short circuits the rent taking inherent in closed source monopolies, it allows microscopic participants into markets alongside the giants.

  18. Re:State funded textbooks are biased by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

    And non-state-funded textbooks are unbiased?

  19. Re:Cheap 1st/2nd year textbooks, expensive years 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately you may be correct. I work at a university that I graduated from many years ago. Costs have gone through the roof. There are fancy expensive study areas everywhere. The paint is barely dry on renovations when they are renovating again. The administration went from a small area in one building to their own four story building. Classroom space has tripled, but student population is only up by 70%. Nobody wants to take a class before 10AM or after 2PM so we need more faculty and classrooms to accommodate the concurrent scheduling. Athletics has been losing big money for years but nobody wants to make them live within a budget. The number of buildings on campus since I was a student has quadrupled. Tuition cost is up 564%

    Why does this shit continue? Because all the other universities are doing it, we need to do it too so we can attract students. At least we haven't gone apeshit with the snowflake SJW crap. They opened a couple tranny bathrooms in one building and nobody will venture inside them. The girls avoid them like the plague and guys are reluctant to go in there too. I'm not even sure who they were for.

  20. Here's a table of historical college costs by Beeftopia · · Score: 3, Informative

    To get a real feel for the sudden growth since 2000, note that the first two data points span a couple of decades. The rest of the points are year by year:

    https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76

    The article says an 812% increase since 1978. They could have easily cut down the start point to the year 2000 and still produced a startling, and more meaningful result.

  21. 20th century model v.s. 21st century thieves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That model sounds great, but the publishers have already gotten past you. The current model is to "give" the university online homework systems, embedded in your LMS, that require you to have a $120 subscription to the textbook. Fuck that noise; that's where we need to attack them.

  22. Because open source documentation is A+ by orin · · Score: 1

    Writing textbooks sucks as much as writing documentation. There isn't any real payoff for anyone in writing textbooks in terms of reputation (other than having the opportunity to write more textbooks). At least with open source software there is more of a structure to the intangible benefits one gets out of contributing to such projects (such as being able to show contributions when applying for jobs).

    1. Re:Because open source documentation is A+ by losfromla · · Score: 1

      Your analogy couldn't have been more perfectly bad.
      In an open source software project, the product is the software, not the documentation.
      In an open textbook project, the product is the book, not the documentation of how it works.

      So all of the intangible benefits you elucidated belong to the people who created the content of the book. There are also tangible benefits, such as grants to create the work etc. No doubt it is a strong resume builder and with a proper community in place around the book, it would be easy to track user retention and engagement which can be highlighted in a CV.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
  23. You missed the new model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The new model is to have the "free" online homework require the $120-$180 texbook "subscription". Taht way the professor doesn't have to write questions or grade homework, and you get assraped without the chance of buying a used textbook.

  24. Re:Cheap 1st/2nd year textbooks, expensive years 3 by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    In part, government intervention has disconnected costs from results.

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    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  25. The real solution.. by thesupraman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While this is a good step, the REAL solution is to stop requiring a new edition of the textbook almost annually.

    THIS is the huge scam that has created this trap for students. There is almost zero reason for these new additions, however courses often REQUIRE and actually check for them (and often have included coursework, its own scam..).

    The problem? This means there is no market for the books second hand!
    By allowing a collusion between publishers and courses to effectively kill second hand use of the books, we end up in this situation.

    So, just REQUIRE textbooks to have a minimum 5 year life (could easily be 10 years in many subjects).
    Refuse any textbooks that are 'licensed' (including non-transferable electronic versions).
    Problem solved!

    Wont ever happen, people are making too much money screwing over the students, who are too young and green to avoid it.

    1. Re: The real solution.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If this is the reason students are spending $1200 pa, why don't community colleges design their courses around last year's textbooks (which are presumably available for much less)? Very few fields of study change significantly from year to year.

    2. Re:The real solution.. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Or start the Occupy Textbooks movement and produce excellent written material that will replace the incumbent literature. Math would be a good start. Even better, designing a PROPER e-book platform would be the best start - build something that will be so good that you wouldn't ever want to return to an expensive paper textbook even if someone gave it to you for free. I cry when I see the shitware people use, and e-books are an especially atrocious case. We had TeX in the 1980s already, and thirty years later, the Kindlecrap still can't give you half the reading experience you had back then.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:The real solution.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up.

    4. Re:The real solution.. by El+Cubano · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I fear that: a) you don't have any experience teaching at the university level; and, b) you don't actually understand the problem. Let me try to educate you.

      First, I teach a course at a large public university. I work full time as consultant/developer and I teach a single course as an adjunct. My motivation for doing it, you ask? I thought it would be fun and my fondest memories of my undergraduate education were three adjunct professors who were experienced industry professionals and taught only a single course: their courses were far and away the most enjoyable and relevant to me. I wanted to do something similar, to "give back," if you will.

      I was handed an already developed upper division course (the previous professor had retired about the time I was hired) that covers advanced Java programming and business IT system design, so I only had to do some light/moderate updates to the course to suit my preferences and my vision for how the course would go. My total compensation: US$ ~3000/semester, for 3 hours lecture per week + 2-3 hours lecture prep per week + 2-3 hours grading per week + 2-3 hours assisting students per week (call it 10 hours per week for 14 weeks and we won't count the time I spend prior to the start of each semester getting things ready), or 140 hours over 3.5 months, or about $20/hour. As a reference, my consulting rate is right around $200/hour.

      That said, I will now address your specific statements.

      While this is a good step, the REAL solution is to stop requiring a new edition of the textbook almost annually.

      Believe me, I have tried to stick with an older edition of my course text. The course I teach covers Java and I did not like the book the previous professor used. I did a couple of weeks of research prior to my first time teaching the course and found that there were no other decent alternatives that covered all the topics needed for the course. I was unwilling to require two or three books, so I stuck with one mediocre book at $60. That book is only four years old and I have already been getting complaints from students about how outdated it is. It has nothing on JavaFX, nothing on Java 8, etc.

      THIS is the huge scam that has created this trap for students. There is almost zero reason for these new additions, however courses often REQUIRE and actually check for them (and often have included coursework, its own scam..).

      Well, when I teach we all have to be in agreement about certain things. While some text books do not need to change much (I'm pretty sure algebra is the same now as it was 5 years ago), others do need to change. Java is a great example. A 5 year old Java textbook is not a good fit for my class. Remember, I am not teaching CS fundamentals here (those are probably the same as they were 20 years ago). By the way, every additional hour I spend developing course material lowers the effective hourly rate I am being paid by the university. So, since I am already teaching for 10% of what I normally charge a consulting client, I am not looking to maximize the time I spend doing what amounts to unpaid coursework development.

      The problem? This means there is no market for the books second hand!

      By allowing a collusion between publishers and courses to effectively kill second hand use of the books, we end up in this situation.

      I can tell you that I most certainly do not collude with the publishers. The only "benefit" (if you want to call it that) I get is that as a faculty member I can request a free evaluation copy and they will likely provide it. Their expectation is, I'm sure, that I will select their book and they will get a few hundred sales. Still, for some courses, there is an amazingly limited selection for textbooks, which puts the faculty and students somewhat at the mercy of the publishers and/or authors.

      So, just REQUIRE textbooks to have a minimum 5 year life (co

    5. Re:The real solution.. by Salgak1 · · Score: 2

      Back in my undergrad days, the Engineering-track Physics I and II courses had textbooks that were huge stacks of punched stencilled pages ( required a 4-inch binder. . .). Cost, between 12 and 14 dollars, plus a 6 dollar binder.

      Junior Year, both volumes came out as a textbook. 80 bucks. And, of course, enough minor changes in the exercises that the old paper editions were useless.

      Oddly enough, the professor who taught the course bought a new car that year.

      Funny how that works. . .

    6. Re:The real solution.. by Gilgaron · · Score: 2

      Programming is different than, say, general chemistry. The classes I took in fast moving fields moved so fast they printed up spiral bound texts for a relatively low fee instead of having a professionally made textbook. For general curriculum stuff like calculus, a yearly revision is unneeded.

    7. Re: The real solution.. by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 3, Informative

      If this is the reason students are spending $1200 pa, why don't community colleges design their courses around last year's textbooks (which are presumably available for much less)? Very few fields of study change significantly from year to year.

      As someone who has taught at the college level, I can tell you that most professors would be thrilled to do this. Unfortunately, it only really works for a year or two. The first year after a new edition comes out, there may be sufficient stock left to source a decent amount of textbooks (though they'll still be nearly full price).

      The second year, you're down to mostly used copies. But the used textbook market is unreliable. You can probably get away with using the old edition for that second year, because used textbook stocks may be reliable enough. But after that, it gets harder -- the bookstore may not be able to reliably source a lot of copies. If you go on Amazon or whatever, you'll end up buying from 3rd-party sellers who often don't pay detailed attention to textbooks... resulting in inaccuracies for listings. You'll get the student who comes in and says, "I know the current edition is 7th, and you want to use 6th -- I ordered a 6th from a used seller, but they sent me the 5th edition! Can I use it?"

      A large number of students don't sell textbooks back, particularly if they already bought them used and it's an old edition that they won't make much money off of. So the used market dries up after a couple years.

      And most textbooks (except in very active fields) aren't actually releasing new editions EVERY year. Instead, it's often every 3 or 4 or 5 years, which is long enough to "dry up" any used market and force everyone to upgrade.

      Believe me -- I know there are always plenty of stories of professors who teach from their own books and want to make loads of money. But the majority of professors don't write textbooks, and they're often happy to stay on a consistent edition (and save students money). Who wants to update course materials to take into account all the exercise numbers changing from edition to edition, the minor rearrangements of text, etc., etc.?

    8. Re: The real solution.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do the books change subtly enough from edition to edition that it would be possible to prepare a plan that would work for both the current and previous editions at the same time?

      That way you can tell people they can use either edition, and those that are able to get hold of the old one will be able to and those that aren't can buy the new one. As you say, the ones that buy the old edition used probably end up stuck with it at the end because the second-hand stores won't take it, while the ones who buy it new get to sell it back.

      This could reduce the impact of being in the "bad luck year" where the new book just came out and so the second-hand stock is non-existent, by allowing students to self-select into either category based on their needs.

      Of course this would only work if the changes from one edition to another are mostly minor.

      Perhaps a simpler solution is for the school itself to retain a stock of the relevant books and lend them to the students. That way they can keep teaching from the same edition until enough of them get destroyed that they can't be issued to all students anymore, though students would of course be required not to annotate them.

    9. Re: The real solution.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most professors write textbooks.

    10. Re: The real solution.. by imidan · · Score: 1

      Most professors do not write textbooks. Most professors don't get paid by their university to write textbooks, and even when a publisher pays them, it's usually not very much. Most professors don't have the motivation or time to write textbooks. Professors who write nationally popular textbooks for subjects like calculus and physics are exceptions, and those guys are making money at it. My philosophy prof who had a shrink-wrapped stack of paper in the bookstore doesn't make a lot of profit from that.

    11. Re: The real solution.. by losfromla · · Score: 1

      Maybe if there were a more active market for used textbooks, students would make the attempt to sell their old, bought used textbooks and the market would become more active. Yes, that's circular but so is: students don't sell their old textbooks because they know no one is buying them.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    12. Re:The real solution.. by losfromla · · Score: 1

      For calculus a revision every 20 years would probably be far too frequent. The main valid reason for a rewrite would be to improve the teaching style, more likely this would result in a whole new book. So outside of a whole new book, new calculus, chemistry, math, logic books are probably not needed once good ones are written. Every 20 years, add some new examples, to make it so not everyone is a blonde, blue eyed male who wants to become a nuclear engineer. Publish errata that can be easily added and continue to sell re-prints of the same book as the older books fall apart and out of the market from re-use, loss, theft, water and fire damage, etc.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    13. Re: The real solution.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do the books change subtly enough from edition to edition that it would be possible to prepare a plan that would work for both the current and previous editions at the same time?

      Generally yes as long as you write your own homework assignments.
      This would probably change within a couple years of such a policy being widespread however, as that;'s the nature of arms races.

    14. Re:The real solution.. by losfromla · · Score: 1

      I used a physics textbook that was the same one (same fucking exact one) that my Dad had used when learning physics. Of course I'd bought my own recently published copy of a 40 year old physics book. Our professors at community college created spiral bound lab books that were probably around $20. These were fantastic as they expanded on topics and had nice hand-drawn illustrations, etc... Ah, the good-old days.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    15. Re: The real solution.. by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      Do the books change subtly enough from edition to edition that it would be possible to prepare a plan that would work for both the current and previous editions at the same time?

      Textbook producers have long found ways around this. I mentioned exercise numbers, because that's one way they make this practice next-to-impossible.

      One edition you assign problems #1-10, but in the next edition those same problems are #1, 3-4, 6, 9, 11-12, 19. Oh, except for #4 and #7 in the original edition, which have been dropped for no apparent reason and replaced with new problems. (Admittedly, in the first few editions the exercises are often edited for legitimate improvements -- clarifying them, dropping bad exercises, etc. But by the time you get to the 7th ed. or whatever, it's mostly about making it really annoying to keep using the 6th ed.)

      That's just one thing they do. There are also generally various other minor differences incorporated to make it just annoying enough that it's hard to use multiple editions in the same class.

      The solution is for professors to just generate their own sets of problems, rather than relying on textbook exercises. But that takes more work and is frequently one of the main reason professors choose textbooks (more for the exercises than the readings). And if it's a big lecture class that has graduate teaching assistants or whatever, it's generally easier to just point them to some answer guide that is provided by the textbook publisher or whatever, rather than having to write up detailed solutions to explain to the TAs.

      There are various ways around this stuff for professors who want to do the work. But a lot of those ways end up defeating some of the main points of using a standard textbook in the first place.

  26. You need a bit of critical thinking here by thesupraman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sorry, but you are completely wrong about student loans.

    I know its very 'fashionable' to harp on that you should be able to drop them like a hot potato the week you graduate, but that would be a disaster, and in no way addresses the root problem.
    Why a disaster? Because graduates are graduates. A large number of them would see this as a free lunch, and jump on it, declaring bankrupcy just to clear the debt (after all, they have almost nothing to lose here..), and THEN starting building their carreer with a problem. The 'punishments' of a bankrupcy will be of little consequence to them for the immediate future.
    Therefore such risk in such loans will skyrocket, and availability will collapse, and interest rates will skyrocket.
    We would immediately see a backlash from THE VERY PEOPLE WHO WANT THIS, claiming 'only the rich can now get an education!' and we will be back to square one.

    The ACTUAL problem is the bullshit worldview that everyone needs a degree. THIS is what pushes demand to stupid levels, and created this whole problem in the first place.
    Any sane education system has (and has respect for..) universities, technical institutes, apprenticeships, on job training, and just good old 'getting a job' as perfectly valid paths. THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE. Only the more intellectual 5% should ever be going to university, and having the other 80% there only harms those top thinkers by holding them back in a sea of mediocrity. Everyone else should be pursuing much less expensive, quicker, and more useful trade training.

    But no, we need to be inclusive, no ones feelings can be hurt, everyone MUST have a degree to prove what a unique and special snowflake they are.

    THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is the problem.

    1. Re:You need a bit of critical thinking here by swb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think you're pretty much dead on. I'd only differ in that I think student loan debt should be dischargeable, but inversely proportional to the time since the education was obtained. All assets depreciate in value and an education isn't really all that different, and inverse proportion depreciation prevents short-term discharge after graduation without the punishment that would be inflicted on someone whose finances otherwise allow them to declare bankruptcy. I think part of the escalating college cost/loan cycle needs some negative feedback loop -- lending should have risk, without it they lend irresponsibly and all it ends up being is inflationary.

      But you're absolutely right about the "everyone doesn't need a degree" stuff. Most people go to college because they don't know better and are only in it for the signaling value that a degree supposedly has to employers.

      College loans are basically a subsidy to corporations who would otherwise have to provide training and education to their employees and even if it provides some vocational value, it's a horribly inefficient -- the overlap between what's learned in school and what has vocational value to employers is really small.

    2. Re:You need a bit of critical thinking here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Community colleges are an option, but society looks down upon the CC 'graduate'. There should be a one year program (12 months full time) that give students the basic business and technical backgrounds for their chosen path.

    3. Re:You need a bit of critical thinking here by Tvingo · · Score: 2

      The 'fix' for student loans if for the schools to 'co-sign' the loan with the student. The student can only discharge the dept back to the school after X number of years of paying Y% of their salaries towards the loan. You figure out the X and Y with some negotiations but the end result is if you go into a field where there is no way to pay off the loan in X years paying Y% of the salary then the school should never have loaded you the money in the first place. One of two things happen, schools either don't give out loans for those majors anymore or they reduce the cost of the major. No longer are kids getting 100's of thousands in student loans for art history because the school will end up eating that cost in X years.

      --
      Nothing i have to say is worth saying.
    4. Re:You need a bit of critical thinking here by losfromla · · Score: 1

      Since society benefits from an educated population, be it very intellectual or very vocational (who doesn't want a great plumber?). Why not implement what you propose and boost it with free education? That way everyone is educated appropriate to their desires and abilities, society benefits, and no one has to worry about paying off some stupid loan.
      I disagree that the loan situation is not a contributor to the problem, in fact it might even exacerbate the situation you are concerned about. Since universities are not worried about loan defaults, they have less incentive to be selective about enrollment. They don't give a shit if they put out low quality graduates since they know that eventually, _they_will_be_paid_.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    5. Re:You need a bit of critical thinking here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, but you are completely wrong about student loans.

      I know its very 'fashionable' to harp on that you should be able to drop them like a hot potato the week you graduate, but that would be a disaster

      Well, in practice it would reduce to free government sponsored university education (it's not like the banks are going to actually eat the losses).

      It's not as efficient as doing that on purpose would be, but I don't think it'd be all that disastrous in practice and it lets the republicans printed their clever so it'll probably be more feasible to get passed. The main down side I foresee is it's kind of a trap for people with integrity who don't just declare bankruptcy unpon graduation but a couple PSAs should cover that.

    6. Re:You need a bit of critical thinking here by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      There should be a 4 year program for that. It should be called High School.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  27. dont forget you can borrow money.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... to pay for those overpriced books, that changes every year even in subjects with no new factual information, hampering secondary market for text books.
    This way the bankers can make a comfortable living, after all they only take in ~40% of all corporate profits in the US.

  28. Undercut the publishers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For the past two semesters, I've been teaching an intro-level science class for non-majors at a Big Ten university. Basically, there are two texts I'm aware of that could be used for my course. One costs about $30 for a printed copy and can be acquired freely as a PDF through the university library's website. The problem is that the book is terrible, in that it contains figures that are okay, but the text is unrelated, doesn't explain the topic, and doesn't reference the figures. It's quite possibly the worst textbook I've ever seen. The other is a book that costs roughly $200, and I haven't been able to get a sample copy of it to evaluate if it's a good text. I'm not going to make my students pay $200 unless I'm certain it's a useful text.

    I've seriously considered using Inkscape and Blender to create figures, use LaTeX for formatting the text, and creating my own text. I'd self-publish it as an ebook on Amazon and sell it for around $30, giving students the option to rent it for a semester at a lower price. I could also create additional instructional materials like presentations and exercises to give to instructors using my text. Ultimately, there's no benefit to selling the instructor materials because it won't bring in much of a profit, and giving the materials away is an easier way to get my text adopted at other schools. I wouldn't want to assume the risk of printing copies. I suspect that I could make a good profit selling electronic copies at a fair price. Printing a large quantity of books carries the risk that those books won't sell, leaving the publisher with the losses from unsold inventory. With ebooks, there is no such risk, and the only loss if my text doesn't sell as many copies as I hoped is that I earn less money for my time. I can negotiate to pay a copy editor to review my text. I don't see a place for the more traditional publishers.

    I haven't done it yet due to other commitments, but it's something I'm seriously considering working on after the semester ends. I definitely think there's a place for a high quality etextbook at a fair price. I wouldn't give it away, because I need to make a profit and pay my bills. But I think I can make a good profit while undercutting the traditional publishers.

    1. Re:Undercut the publishers by losfromla · · Score: 1

      Do it! You can do it!

      --
      Only I can judge you.
  29. Misuse of the term "open source"? by ciaran.mchale · · Score: 1

    I welcome the existence of free-of-charge textbooks. But it seems to me that much of what is available on various textbook repositories does not meet the "open source" definition. For example, it is common for textbooks to have a copyright licence that does not grant people the right to use a book commercially. That is against the open-source definition. Likewise, it is common for the textbooks to be provided only in a read-only format, such as PDF or as HTML that can be browsed on a website. It is very rare to be able to download the "source" of the book, for example, as a LaTeX, Word or Libre Office document. Thus, even if the copyright license allows people to modify a book, the lack of source code makes this infeasible.

    1. Re:Misuse of the term "open source"? by losfromla · · Score: 1

      I'm totally cool with the license not granting people the right to use a text-book commercially. The information is given freely, it should be passed on freely? Don't like the license? Don't use the work. It is basic true-capitalism. It gives freedom-of-choice. What's not to like?

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    2. Re:Misuse of the term "open source"? by ciaran.mchale · · Score: 1

      You have misunderstood the point I was trying to make. The problem I have is with the misuse of the term "open source" to refer to stuff that is more accurately called "freeware".

    3. Re:Misuse of the term "open source"? by losfromla · · Score: 1

      Yes. I didn't read your full comment. We are in agreement.
      I too would like "libre" books and not just free-of-charge textbooks, though I also think they are a great start!

      I disagree though that disallowing commercial use is what makes them bad. I'm good with a license that allows academic use and even research use, however, it would seem somewhat unfair for some publisher to take a "libre" book, rewrite it a bit throw it in a printing press , mark it up %500 and give nothing back. There could be licensing terms for publishers to have to give back changes, updates, etc and kick back a portion of their proceeds. Something like what lulu.com does.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
  30. Payola in universities by CrankyOldEngineer · · Score: 4, Informative

    The problem is not availability of economical textbooks. It's publishers paying off administrators. Our local community college uses nearly 100% Pearson textbooks. Many of them are custom printed in binders specifically for that school and are required. Supposedly they are custom designed for the requirements of that school. But there is nothing unique about them and in fact they are practically identical to other community college textbooks except for numbering and questions/problems. They cost around $200, and they change every year so students can't buy&sell or borrow. I would love to meet the the asshat responsible.

    --
    COE
  31. Re:Cheap 1st/2nd year textbooks, expensive years 3 by swb · · Score: 1

    Easy student loans drive this. Administrators feel free to increase spending because they feel free to increase costs because lenders feel free to lend because there is low risk to student loans due to the lack of a default mechanism.

    Politically, I think they appease Democratic state legislatures by increasing aid and scholarships to protected class students, knowing that these costs can be shifted to students who pay with loans, as the loan amounts can go up easily. The added spending by Universities is spun as "education spending" which is generally approved of.

    Republicans, who are generally against increased spending, appear to be asleep at the switch, but probably they're too busy fighting ideological battels to care or are getting different signals from their political constituencies in the construction industry who benefit from University capital spending. Plus I'm sure there is heavy lobbying by the financial services industry who benefit from student lending, reminding legislators that this is "free" spending that doesn't come from tax revenue, so it doesn't count.

  32. Smoke and Mirrors by chill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Open source textbooks, reference material, and study guides are plentiful. Used textbooks are cheap. Amazon has a great service providing them.

    Colleges and Universities frequently require the use of online, "digital learning systems", like Cengage. Access to that site, where the homework is, requires a subscription code that can be hundreds of dollars. A textbook without the "online access code" is a doorstop.

    If schools are serious about this, they need to start pushing the use of Moodle instead of Blackboard, and providing high quality open source content including lesson plans, homework, and textbooks.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  33. Re:Cheap 1st/2nd year textbooks, expensive years 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You nailed it.

  34. Better Solution by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    If you really want to solve the textbook crisis, solve the debt crisis in education and allow discharge of student debt in bankruptcy at the same time as you investigate the publishers for any type of RICO or antitrust activity.

    Neither of these solutions work. If you can discharge a student loan through bankruptcy then no lender will offer them without a guarantee from the government and that will be really expensive. So if you go this way why not just have the government cover the tuition costs with grants which it recoups by charging a higher tax rate on higher incomes? It worked this way in the UK for decades before the government got stupid and massively increased enrolment beyond what society needed and taxes could support.

    As for text book publishers they are not guilty of breaking any laws they are just exploiting an unusual economic model where the person choosing is not the person paying: their customers are professors, not students, but the students are the ones footing the bill. The solution is for professors to write their own texts and use either the open source model or the cheap, online publishing model. I've done this myself for a first year physics coursee - students can get the PDFs for free on the course website or they can get a hard copy from CreateSpace for US$4.74(with code)+postage which is about a quarter of the price the university bookstore would charge for it as a coursepack. About ~10% get hard copies and the rest just use the free PDFs - which without the annoying DRM/apps of publisher etextbooks are very widely adopted.

  35. Not really compatable with Common Core by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great idea but there is an issue for many states. One of the stated benefits is

      "... faculty have gained the ability to adapt and customize their instructional materials to ensure they are aligned with their pedagogical methods to best meet their students' needs,"

    But that is opposing the common core curriculum methodology which specifies not only what to teach but how to teach it. In many cases it does not matter if a student gets the correct answer if they do not do it the CC way; which is sometime insane. It drives my kids' teachers nuts that they are not supposed to teach to each student's best way to learn.

    1. Re:Not really compatable with Common Core by imidan · · Score: 1

      But that is opposing the common core curriculum methodology which specifies not only what to teach but how to teach it. In many cases it does not matter if a student gets the correct answer if they do not do it the CC way

      The Common Core standards are not a fully developed curriculum; they are a list of skills that students should have at certain points in their education. Here's an example:

      CCSS.MATH.CONTENT.7.G.B.5
      Use facts about supplementary, complementary, vertical, and adjacent angles in a multi-step problem to write and solve simple equations for an unknown angle in a figure.

      Notice that it says nothing here about how to teach this skill, nor does it prescribe any mode of assessment that a teacher must use. There is nothing in CC that says students should still get credit for getting the wrong answer as long as they got it in a particular way.

      Certain for-profit education companies like Pearson have developed all kinds of wacky new instructional materials that have kids doing math in ways that make absolutely no sense to me. Maybe your school/district/state/whoever bought a package from one of these corporations and then mandated that teachers must teach exactly according to the materials, but the Common Core standards is only a list of skills, it does not force teachers to teach or evaluate students in specific ways.

      The entire CC is freely available for your inspection at their web site: http://www.corestandards.org/read-the-standards/

    2. Re:Not really compatable with Common Core by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll have to look into that. That is not how the CC has been introduced in our school district. It's been very aggressive in enforcing some ridiculous methodologies. Even the teachers have had to have special in-house seminars to figure it out before teaching to the class, and we are in a high achieving district. Parents had been told that it was all part of CC. Pearson may in fact be the material provider. I wonder if the school is assuming the publishers know what their doing.

    3. Re:Not really compatable with Common Core by losfromla · · Score: 1

      Common Core is for grade school, we're discussing college textbooks here. I'm guessing you're a republitard and figured this was a good place to bang one of your favorite drums. It isn't and you're as stupid as you look.

      Here you go troll:

      What is Common Core?
      The Common Core State Standards Initiative is an educational initiative in the United States that details what K–12 students should know in English language arts and mathematics at the end of each grade.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      CC also does not specify how to teach it but rather it instructs on the kind of learning and thinking skills that should be taught to the students.

      I'm also not a big fan of the current educational system but CC is the least of my concerns.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    4. Re:Not really compatable with Common Core by imidan · · Score: 1

      That is not how the CC has been introduced in our school district. It's been very aggressive in enforcing some ridiculous methodologies.

      Yeah, look at the Big Education corporations. Find out how much your district payed Pearson. Ask questions about whether curriculum changes are necessary because of CC or because of Big Ed. If an administrator insists that some horrible change is required because of CC, ask them to cite the section of the standard that requires it.

      I think a lot of districts probably just thought it would be easier to claim compliance with CC if they purchased a ready-made package rather than auditing their own curricula to see what changes they'd have to make. But I also think most of them were probably wrong in thinking that.

  36. Re:Cheap 1st/2nd year textbooks, expensive years 3 by Thelasko · · Score: 1

    ...solve the debt crisis in education and allow discharge of student debt in bankruptcy...

    There's one simple scenario that prevents this from happening: 1. Go to expensive college.
    2. Graduate.
    3. File for bankruptcy immediately.
    4. Profit.
    Most college students have no assets and poor credit. There is no downside to filing for bankruptcy. An established adult with a house and a car are a different story. Creditors can go after that persons house, car, retirement savings, etc.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".