Fiat Chrysler Recalls 1.3 Million Ram Pickups For Fatal Software Problem (cnn.com)

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Fiat Chrysler Recalls 1.3 Million Ram Pickups For Fatal Software Problem (cnn.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Friday May 12, 2017 @09:20AM from the better-safe-than-sorry dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNNMoney: Fiat Chrysler is recalling 1.3 million pickup trucks because of a software problem that may be tied to at least one death and two injuries. The problem could disable side airbags from deploying and seat belts from tightening in a rollover accident. If there is a significant impact on the truck's underbody, Fiat Chrysler says the truck's safety system could incorrectly conclude that a sensor underneath the truck has failed. If a sensor does fail, the truck's safety system is designed to suppress the airbags from deploying and seat belts from tightening when they are not supposed to. That's why there is a risk if there is a subsequent rollover. The good news is the driver should be alerted to this problem by a instrument cluster warning light. If the light comes on, drivers should then turn the truck off, and then turn the key back into the on/run position to verify that the light is no longer on. They should also follow instructions on their recall notice. The report notes that the affected vehicles include the 2013-16 Ram 1500 and 2500 pickups, and 2014-2016 Ram 3500 pickups.

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Oh great. by buss_error · 2017-05-12 09:24 · Score: 0

Now we have Windows for cars. If something messes up, reboot the car. I guess that's fine as long as it's not something like, I don't know - the breaks stop working and the accelerator is stuck full open. And the ignition lock is activated in the "ON" position.
Yeah - totally can't happen, right?

--
Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.
1. Re:Oh great. by GerbilSoft · 2017-05-12 09:33 · Score: 2
  
  If GM was like Microsoft... (replace GM with Fiat Chrysler or similar)
  
  For all of us who feel only the deepest love and affection for the way computers have enhanced our lives, read on. At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated, "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."
  
  In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
  
  1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.
  
  2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.
  
  3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue.
  
  For some reason you would simply accept this.
  
  4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
  
  5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five percent of the roads.
  
  6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "This Car Has Performed An Illegal Operation" warning light.
  
  7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.
  
  8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
  
  9. Every time a new car was introduced car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
  
  10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off."
2. Re:Oh great. by JustAnotherOldGuy · 2017-05-12 10:09 · Score: 1
  
  10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off."
  That's how our Lexus works...the "Start" button starts and stops the engine.
  
  --
  Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
3. Re:Oh great. by Cmdln+Daco · 2017-05-12 10:58 · Score: 1
  
  On any modern Windows computer, you go to the 'start' menu to start the shutdown sequence.
  Only a troglodyte would have been still be running a computer when that meme was created (MS-DOS? CP/M?) where you just switch the power off.
4. Re: Oh great. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 11:02 · Score: 0
  
  "It is now safe to shutdown your computer."
5. Re: Oh great. by that+this+is+not+und · 2017-05-12 14:11 · Score: 1
  
  I used to like editing that bitmap to read "It is not safe to shut off your computer."
6. Re:Oh great. by JustAnotherOldGuy · 2017-05-12 14:14 · Score: 1
  
  On any modern Windows computer, you go to the 'start' menu to start the shutdown sequence.
  So how come there's no on-screen "Stop" button to click on to start it up then?
  
  --
  Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
7. Re:Oh great. by vandamme · 2017-05-13 06:09 · Score: 1
  
  Because you don't run Linux.
8. Re:Oh great. by JustAnotherOldGuy · 2017-05-13 11:03 · Score: 1
  
  Because you don't run Linux.
  Actually, I *do* run Linux Mint (on my laptop) and I like it a lot.
  
  --
  Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Send them to Samsung by avandesande · 2017-05-12 09:26 · Score: 0

Send the developers to work for Samsung- they can join the Ford Pinto engineers that worked on the Galaxy s7.

--
love is just extroverted narcissism
1. Re:Send them to Samsung by Chris453 · 2017-05-12 09:58 · Score: 1
  
  It was the Note 7 not the S7. If you are going to make jokes at least know what you are talking about.
2. Re:Send them to Samsung by Tablizer · 2017-05-12 09:58 · Score: 1
  
  Throw in the VW engineers while you are at it.
  
  --
  Table-ized A.I.
3. Re:Send them to Samsung by avandesande · 2017-05-12 10:45 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know anything about the Pinto engineering team either, but you didn't mention that.
  
  --
  love is just extroverted narcissism
4. Re:Send them to Samsung by aix+tom · 2017-05-13 03:24 · Score: 1
  
  At least VW didn't make any engineering mistakes.
  They build a car that performed as good as possible for the customer, and as good as possible for the government inquisitor. The only problem was, that the government inquisitor didn't like that the car was able to figure out it was being tested and changed it's behaviour based on that.
Fail unsafe by justthinkit · 2017-05-12 09:32 · Score: 1

So they are using a Fail Unsafe system. If something fails, put the system in an unsafe state. Brilliant.
Love how they say they _designed_ it to work this way. Ah, no you didn't.

--
I come here for the love
1. Re:Fail unsafe by OverlordQ · 2017-05-12 09:34 · Score: 1
  
  > So they are using a Fail Unsafe system.
  How else should it fail? Stop the vehicle from running if you bottom it out?
  
  --
  Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
2. Re:Fail unsafe by avandesande · 2017-05-12 09:56 · Score: 1
  
  Having a side airbag fire off inadvertently is probably much more unsafe than not at all.
  
  --
  love is just extroverted narcissism
3. Re:Fail unsafe by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 10:03 · Score: 0
  
  > So they are using a Fail Unsafe system.
  How else should it fail? Stop the vehicle from running if you bottom it out?
  The point is that if a sensor UNDER the truck fails, that's not a good reason to de-activate the side airbags.
  Especially if it failed because you hit debris or a hole in the road, which then throws you into the ditch and you end up rolling over. And that exact scenario is why this advice is pure bullshit "The good news is the driver should be alerted to this problem by a instrument cluster warning light. If the light comes on, drivers should then turn the truck off, and then turn the key back into the on/run position to verify that the light is no longer on."
  Right, so when someone slides off the road and has a hard underbody impact which ends up flipping them over, as they are flying through the air they should notice the light come on, turn the truck off and back on in order to get the airbags to start working before they hit the ground and roll over several times.
  Brilliant.
4. Re:Fail unsafe by AvitarX · 2017-05-12 10:31 · Score: 2
  
  it seems pretty reasonable to me. A side airbag going off randomly is pretty disorienting (happened to me at a pothole once).
  And if a warning light goes off saying the system is dead, it seems fine to me in all honesty. Not even a huge deal. Just a shorty car with a system that sucks, wouldn't be the first fiat like that.
  
  --
  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
5. Re:Fail unsafe by tlhIngan · 2017-05-12 10:33 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  So they are using a Fail Unsafe system. If something fails, put the system in an unsafe state. Brilliant.
  Love how they say they _designed_ it to work this way. Ah, no you didn't.
  Actually, the sudden deployment of airbags and the seatbelt tensioner would be far more unsafe than to not deploy in an accident.
  Beside the startle factor, it's a fairly violent event and it's far safer that in case of problems, the airbag does NOT deploy than deploys.
  It's why we have airbag disable switches, and children sets are never allowed in the front seat anymore - because deployment has the chance to cause injury.
6. Re:Fail unsafe by JonBoy47 · 2017-05-12 15:05 · Score: 1
  
  This is a system problem, but it's that the control system is incorrectly diagnosing a sensor failure, not that it is suppressing air bag deployment in response to the detected failure. There are only very specific instances where you actually want the airbags to deploy. In the event of failure of a sensor that degrades the ability to determine if airbag and/or pre-tensioner deployment, the fail-safe option is to disable the air bag system to prevent a spurious deployment, and light the warning indicator in the hope the owner has the system serviced.
  Given this is a product of Fiat Chrysler America (likely with more than a little DaimlerChrysler legacy) questionable design decisions, combined with indifferent manufacturing and assembly quality, are to blame.
7. Re:Fail unsafe by Doctor_Jest · 2017-05-12 17:06 · Score: 1
  
  From the other articles on the subject, it appears that the impact to the bottom of the truck body has to be pretty good, like hitting a big rock, or something similar. This, coupled with the sensor failure setting, is a problem, but the Dodge pickups are like most trucks on the road, built a bit better than the flimsy cars. Meaning, the quality of manufacture may vary slightly, but a truck is first and foremost meant to be a truck.
  In the interim, don't hit giant rocks in your Ram, and THEN roll over.
  
  --
  It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
8. Re:Fail unsafe by thegarbz · 2017-05-12 20:48 · Score: 1
  
  So they are using a Fail Unsafe system. If something fails, put the system in an unsafe state. Brilliant.
  Love how they say they _designed_ it to work this way. Ah, no you didn't.
  No they designed it in the safest possible way. When designing safety systems whether they be for fire and gas in buildings, nuclear power plants, or for a small FIAT you have to take into account several risky scenarios. One of those scenarios is the spurious operation of the safety system.
  Systems are designed to meet certain probability of failure requirements to reduce the risk. There's many different ways to design a reliable system and they will all have various trade-offs in complexity and also in other design requirements such MTTFS (Mean Time To Fail Spuriously). It is quite possible to reduce the latter through fail-unsafe design while maintaining an incredibly low probability of failure through careful monitoring of the systems that initiate and trigger the safety system.
  e.g. Right in the summary: The driver is alerted of the problem on their instrument cluster.
  The only real problem here is cascading risk scenarios. It is quite possible that whatever hits the undercarriage of the car disabling the airbags subsequently also causes the risky scenario (crash) that need airbags to protect the people in the car. That's why Fiat is recalling it's fail unsafe design, but every other car manufacturer who also uses fail unsafe designs is not.
  Related: Toyota, Chrysler and Honda collectively recalled 2.1million cars due to the potential of spurious deployment of airbags in 2015.
9. Re:Fail unsafe by mjwx · 2017-05-15 00:02 · Score: 1
  
  So they are using a Fail Unsafe system. If something fails, put the system in an unsafe state. Brilliant.
  Love how they say they _designed_ it to work this way. Ah, no you didn't.
  Actually, the sudden deployment of airbags and the seatbelt tensioner would be far more unsafe than to not deploy in an accident.
  Beside the startle factor, it's a fairly violent event and it's far safer that in case of problems, the airbag does NOT deploy than deploys.
  It's why we have airbag disable switches, and children sets are never allowed in the front seat anymore - because deployment has the chance to cause injury.
  That is utter bollocks.
  
  Children are not banned from the front seat, there is an advisory against using rear facing child seats in the front seat.
  
  With almost all airbag fatalities its usually due to people putting their arms over the steering wheel (I.E. hand over hand) rather than doing push-pull steering. Its not the airbag that kills them, its their own radius or ulna that does the job. I haven't seen a car with a user accessible airbag disable switch for some time. Any switches are only there for maintenance purposes only and will set off the SRS warning if not re-enabled when the vehicle is switched on.
  
  As for seat belt tensionsers, you've got to be smoking crack here. Head injuries are the biggest killer in any motor vehicle accident and for the most part these are caused by the shoulders NOT being restrained enough (which is why racing drivers wear a HANS device). I have been in one serious MVA before, my 2 star ANCAP safety rated car was sandwiched between a 5 star ANCAP rated Mazda 3 and a 5 star ANCAP rated Holden Calais... Guess who was the only one not to go to hospital? Yep, me in the 2 star rated car. The paramedics immediately knew why, its because I sat upright with my head against the headrest whilst the other drivers reclined, so their necks were extended. Their heads had a hell of a lot more travel than mine. Without seat belt tensioners, my shoulders would not have been restrained against the seat.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
The Age of the Digital Idiot by iggymanz · 2017-05-12 09:39 · Score: 0

So young engineers imagine such safety systems should have or need a computer system? morons.
1. Re:The Age of the Digital Idiot by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 09:48 · Score: 0
  
  It costs less.
2. Re:The Age of the Digital Idiot by JonBoy47 · 2017-05-12 15:10 · Score: 1
  
  So yes, you're suggesting we *not* use computers to determine air bag deployment. You clearly never experienced one of the early air bag cars from the 80's...
3. Re:The Age of the Digital Idiot by iggymanz · 2017-05-15 04:03 · Score: 1
  
  Correct, air bag deployment can be done by purely mechanical inertial based systems that have superior reliability and lifespan compared to computer based ones. Yes, I know people whose lives were saved by airbag systems from the 1980s. You are not an engineer, you spew in ignorance
What a cluster... warning... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-05-12 09:44 · Score: 2

The good news is the driver should be alerted to this problem by a instrument cluster warning light.
The last time all the lights appeared on the dashboard of my 1999 Ford Taurus the head gasket had blown and a piston broke inside engine. My mechanic refused to work on it as it was a waste of money. That was six months after I spent $1,500 on tires and brakes. Pick-N-Pull bought it for $250.
1. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 10:07 · Score: 0
  
  Instrument cluster warning lights... We in the repair trade call those "Idiot lights", because if you rely on them you're an idiot.
2. Re:What a cluster... warning... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-05-12 10:13 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  We in the repair trade call those "Idiot lights", because if you rely on them you're an idiot.
  You mean the check engine light? Whenever that light comes on, I open the hood and the engine is always there.
3. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 10:22 · Score: 0
  
  1999 Ford Taurus. Found the problem
4. Re:What a cluster... warning... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-05-12 10:30 · Score: 1
  
  1999 Ford Taurus. Found the problem
  I liked that car. It was less problematic than my previous car, a 1999 Pontiac Grand Prix that used to belong to my late father. Took me three years to find all the fixes that my father didn't tell me about and have my mechanic fixed them. Car lasted another two years before the alternator died. My mechanic refused to work on that one as it was a waste of money. Pick-N-Pull paid $250 for that one too.
5. Re:What a cluster... warning... by drinkypoo · 2017-05-12 10:35 · Score: 1
  
  You seem to have a knack for picking mediocre vehicles.
  The problem with compactified American cars is that you need to work on them too often for them to be so damned hard to work on.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
6. Re:What a cluster... warning... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-05-12 10:46 · Score: 1
  
  You seem to have a knack for picking mediocre vehicles.
  I pay $1,500 in cash for a car and the liability insurance is only $300 per year. If the car keels over in five years, I'm not going to cry about it.
  I'm fortunate that my last car died just before I got my current job, as I have a doorstep-to-doorstep commute on public transit. I haven't bothered to get a replacement car in the last three years.
7. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 10:47 · Score: 0
  
  Did you know the "R" on the shifter stands for race mode?
8. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 11:08 · Score: 0
  
  Are you a racist?
9. Re:What a cluster... warning... by istartedi · 2017-05-12 11:48 · Score: 1
  
  I've been doing this all wrong. I always remove the engine, put skates on it, take it to the rink, and slam it into the boards.
  
  --
  For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
10. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 12:18 · Score: 0
  
  You sound like a real moron that doesn't know how to maintain a car.
  Set of four tires $385 Installation cost $70.
  Rear set drum, shoes and hardware $78 Installation Cost $0
  Front brake pads $63 Installation Cost $0
  Total cost for brakes and tires when you aren't a stupid dumbass like you. $596
11. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 12:46 · Score: 0
  
  Now if you wren't a dumbass moron that actually knew something about car's you could have made money off that $1500 dollar car.
12. Re:What a cluster... warning... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-05-12 12:55 · Score: 1
  
  You sound like a real moron that doesn't know how to maintain a car.
  If I did my own repairs, I would be a moron.
  
  Total cost for brakes and tires when you aren't a stupid dumbass like you. $596
  Your estimate is a bit off. I got Michelin Defender tires that go for $128 each. A thingamabob between the steering wheel and axle that needed replacement (I don't remember what). And, oh yeah, labor.
13. Re:What a cluster... warning... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-05-12 13:02 · Score: 1
  
  Now if you wren't a dumbass moron that actually knew something about car's you could have made money off that $1500 dollar car.
  A vehicle to me is something that takes me from Point A to Point B. If it stops working, I get rid of it. Simple as that. It's not an extension of manhood.
  Your article link to a pickup truck on steroids clearly shows that you have a need to compensate for something.
14. Re:What a cluster... warning... by drinkypoo · 2017-05-12 13:49 · Score: 1
  
  I'd just go for something more reliable, and cheaper to maintain. Easier to do major repairs on, if you're into that.
  I miss my 240SX like the desert misses the fucking rain, seriously.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
15. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 13:56 · Score: 0
  
  Can't reduce your manhood any lower than to drive a beat up old ugly Honda civic or Toyota Corolla. That is the point. 10+ year old Chevy, Ford, Dodge small cars are bottom of the barrel. EU cars cost WAY too much in parts to maintain old ones. Japanese or now Korean old cars are the smart way to go.
16. Re:What a cluster... warning... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-05-12 14:05 · Score: 1
  
  Easier to do major repairs on, if you're into that.
  When I explained to a coworker what happened to my Taurus, he told me that his Taurus had a blown head gasket but he replaced the entire engine for $200 used. Not something I would do personally. But that's $1,300 less than what my mechanic would charge for a head gasket replacement.
17. Re:What a cluster... warning... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-05-12 14:13 · Score: 1
  
  Can't reduce your manhood any lower than to drive a beat up old ugly Honda civic or Toyota Corolla.
  
  As a driver I'm more concern about getting from Point A to Point B. I don't care what other people think of me and/or the car.
18. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 14:28 · Score: 0
  
  A thingamabob between the steering wheel.
  It's called a tyrod and is simple to repair for anyone that's not a stupid moron like you.
19. Re:What a cluster... warning... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-05-12 14:57 · Score: 1
  
  It's called a tyrod and is simple to repair for anyone that's not a stupid moron like you
  No, asshat, that's a job I pay mechanic to do.
20. Re:What a cluster... warning... by JonBoy47 · 2017-05-12 15:08 · Score: 1
  
  Can't help but notice you conspicuously didn't mention how long you continued driving the car after the idiot lights first came on...
21. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 15:20 · Score: 0
  
  You could afford all of that on your $50k salary in the Bay Area?
22. Re:What a cluster... warning... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-05-12 15:25 · Score: 1
  
  Can't help but notice you conspicuously didn't mention how long you continued driving the car after the idiot lights first came on.
  After the head gasket blew and the piston broke, it was dead in the street. Workers from a nearby restaurant pushed the car out of traffic into a parking lot and I waited for a tow truck. My mechanic told me the bad news the next morning. I had it towed home to make arrangements with Pick-N-Pull. A week later it got towed to spare parts heavan.
23. Re:What a cluster... warning... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-05-12 15:40 · Score: 1
  
  You could afford all of that on your $50k salary in the Bay Area?
  Yes. I have a budget for routine maintenance and an emergency fund for $1,000+ repair bills.
24. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 16:06 · Score: 0
  
  Well of course you do. You also know exactly what people think of you - disgusting middle-aged special-ed loser blob of non-man. You have a brain defect where you take that negativity, and instead of trying to improve yourself, you use it to be at peace with yourself. If the negativity ever stopped, you might sit down one day, look in the mirror, look at your apartment the size of a kitchen, look at the boring mediocre old age filled with medicare and health problems, and actually do something about it. You use the negativity to rebel against the world, and it's what creates your little world of delusion where you are content instead of unhappy. If that stops you'll admit your problems to yourself and get super depressed. And then you'd fix it or die - depression is a way for humans to make major life changes.
  So yes, you do care what people think. You want them to think negatively so you can call them asshats because they tell you to fuck off and make fun of you for spamming a website they like to hang out. It's a way for you to stay the way you are, and likely the most important thing in your disgusting mediocre existence that you are so dearly holding on to. You care what people think - it's the number one priority in your life.
25. Re:What a cluster... warning... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-05-12 16:32 · Score: 1
  
  And then you'd fix it or die - depression is a way for humans to make major life changes.
  Depression is a huge waste of time. You only die if you stop moving.
  
  So yes, you do care what people think.
  Not when it comes to cars.
  
  [...] you can call them asshats [...]
  I call people asshats because they're typically Anonymous Cowards who are anonymous and cowards (funny how those two go hand-in-hand), and who go out of their way to insult me. For example, I don't know how to fix a car beyond routine maintenance and I pay a mechanic for repairs. Why is it necessary to call me a "moron" and "dumb ass" repeatedly? Not everyone has the ability, the tools and the time to fix their own cars. I do have cash, so I pay a mechanic.
  I suspect we will have a repeat of last night when I got a dozen negative comments from asshats in Ann Arbor, the one who uses https://nl.hideproxy.me/ when visiting my websites, and a few others who have nothing better to do late at night. As I told another asshat this morning, I never read such sorry butthurt in my life.
26. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 16:55 · Score: 0
  
  You have a car and pay a mechanic? Fucking asshat, pissing away all your rich money on an investment that depreciates to nothing. People like me don't have a car, as it's a waste of money. And guess what assfuck - since I ain't got one, I don't need to pay a mechanic to constantly fix an investment that loses money. That 5k loan you took out for buying the used automobile? You'll literally never pay that off with your 50k salary. Ever. What, you think you're better than me because you can afford a car? Yeah, that's what all those asshats driving around me tell me. If you can't even afford 5k for a used car you're a 45 year old loser. But guess what fuckhat? I'm saving $30 per month - right into my fucking piggy bank. You're pissing your money away and you'll be poor. I live in the bathroom at work, and that has a built-in sink ball-shower if I wake up before 4:30am when those workstation administrators in pc support come in to run windows update and restore a file from tape. What - you think you're better than me just because you don't clean toilets? This site is for everyone. So I clean toilets, but I'm a fucking ASSxpert on cars. They have floor mats, and that is ASSxactly like the carpets I get paid to clean. You think you're better than me? You think you could clean 2 million square feet of carpet per week? That's what I thought masswipe.
27. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 17:50 · Score: 0
  
  holy fuck this is funny. so the guy with hideproxy.me was me. i'm also the guy who drank a 3k bottle of wine. believe it or not, I do have better things to do at night. I was out clubbing at night. the thing is, when I posted that it was daytime. you see creamer, we have these things called timezones and airplanes. those of us who are useful to society get paid well for our services, and we buy tickets on these "airplanes" and we travel to other "timezones."
  this week, I have been in minsk to hang with some friends, I then went to tel-aviv, and getting bored in a couple of days there grabbed a puddle hopper to cyprus. where it was day when I visited your site, so I could show your picture to the group of girls sitting on the beach with me, just so I could get a reaction. Ever see those reaction videos to 2 girls one cup? it was kinda like that. you're a winner buddy. women do not look at you as "male" - they are actually "barf-disgusted" by your photograph. it is fucking awesome that people like you exist, that other normal people don't even look at as human. i used the proxy because your site wouldn't load for some reason, so I just tried it through a proxy and bam.
  so there - there's you proxy mystery solved. by the way, let me be the latest to pitch in. this site is for humans, you are not one. figure it out special-fat.
28. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 18:01 · Score: 0
  
  FUCK YEA Michigan represent!! INDAhouse!!
  You don't know how to fix a car. We get it. Do you know how to solve a differential equation? We do. That's why you're a dumbass. On this site. If you don't know how to fix a car do you go hang out on the car mechanic subreddit and post idiotic comments? Same applies here. Not everyone has the ability. We don't. But we do have the ability for math, science, programming (not your little scripts), database architecture, etc. And that's who this site is for. People with that ability. If you rode the short bus, you weren't on our bus, and you are not a part of our group here. You are an annoying moron who, on this site, is just an annoying spammer.
29. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 18:55 · Score: 0
  
  "I don't care what other people think of me"
  --shown to care a lot about what people think
  "Not when it comes to cars"
  None of that post was talking about cars. You stupid fat disgusting loser.
  "Why is it necessary to call me a "moron" and "dumb ass" repeatedly"
  --"people who make more than me are asshats because they think they're smarter"
  --"people who can afford anything besides my shitty lifestyle are actually knee-deep in credit asshats"
  --"people attending an actual good university with an internship getting paid almost my midlife salary are asshats"
  It's because you're a moron, and a dumbass. Nothing to do with the above. It's just what successful College Kids call special ed kids who got kicked out of college. Compared to them, you are a moron, and a dumbass. You do not agree, yet every time in your replies you provide supporting evidence. Then people repeat. Let me illdumstrate:
  slashdot: Creamer is a fat stupid fuck
  creamer: I was in special ed, got kicked out of college, and have double a normal person's weight despite my 5 year slo-walk+candy routine.
  slashdot: yes, that's what we said - you are a stupid fat fuck.
  You think those people making fun of you are butthurt? About what exactly? Their higher salary? Their better physical appearance? The ok-looking women they fuck who look at them and get aroused? They are butthurt? How is that exactly again? Oh, right - we are asshats and slashdot is butthurt for not having your awesome life.
  And actually, you are right - just for different reasons. Slashdot is indeed butthurt due to the spam, the retarded comments showing barely any basic-level knowledge, and all pages and pages of offtopic bullshit related to your posts that we all have to scroll through. If this was reddit, the mods would delete your account. But over there, you'd be right at home and there would be no need to. Here, we don't delete anything, and that's one of the reasons people are here. But there is spam. You are spam, that 01010 guy is mostly spam, that hosts autism guys, the gray giggers, etc. We have to keep scrolling through - so we are indeed butthurt. Minor inconvenience - you are - a minor inconvenience - nothing more. At least we are not you.
30. Re:What a cluster... warning... by thegarbz · 2017-05-12 21:09 · Score: 2
  
  Why would I waste time doing messy work when I can pay someone to do it for me?
31. Re: What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 22:31 · Score: 0
  
  I have to admit, I hope you inspire him to improve. I really do. I am not sure that I agree with your methods, but I hope so.
32. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 22:34 · Score: 0
  
  I would have got a different mechanic. your car, your money.
  appearances aside, I have always found it a bit cheaper to keep fixing cars then to keep paying for the new shiny ones
33. Re: What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 22:37 · Score: 0
  
  Bruddah, man... I have been here for a long time. I kind of agree with the other two guys, I think it is just two. You are kinda an idiot. It's okay. I haven't logged in, in a while, but you know me.
  Get a better mechanic. When you buy a car, buy the Haynes/Chiltons manual. Get a better mechanic. Get a better mechanic. Get a better mechanic.
34. Re:What a cluster... warning... by PAjamian · 2017-05-12 23:59 · Score: 1
  
  Yep, you go to a wrecker (one that pulls the parts for you) and ask them how much to drop an engine in. Generally they will sell you the used engine and can drop it in for you cheap. Leave your mechanic out of it, he'll overcharge you for those types of repairs. It's the way to go if your alternative is to junk the car, at least you're getting it back on the road that way and you can sell it off you're not comfortable keeping it after that.
  
  --
  Windows is a bonfire, Linux is the sun. Linux only looks smaller if you lack perspective.
35. Re:What a cluster... warning... by PAjamian · 2017-05-13 00:01 · Score: 1
  
  The alternator? Really? Those are easy to replace, you just get one from a wrecker and drop it in. If you're not up to that ask the wrecker to do it for you, most will do it on the cheap.
  
  --
  Windows is a bonfire, Linux is the sun. Linux only looks smaller if you lack perspective.
36. Re:What a cluster... warning... by PAjamian · 2017-05-13 00:06 · Score: 2
  
  Yes it's easy to replace a tyrod, but it's not free. You need to take the car in for an alignment afterwards, especially if you just put new tires on, unless you want to wreck the tires early.
  
  --
  Windows is a bonfire, Linux is the sun. Linux only looks smaller if you lack perspective.
37. Re:What a cluster... warning... by PAjamian · 2017-05-13 00:08 · Score: 1
  
  For future reference call around to various wreckers in the area and see how much they'll charge to sell you a used engine and drop it in for you. You will probably be surprised just how cheaply you can get it fixed, and if you're uncomfortable with a repair done by a wrecker with used parts, it's still worth it so you can at least turn around and sell it for a lot more than the $250 Pick-N-Pull will give you.
  
  --
  Windows is a bonfire, Linux is the sun. Linux only looks smaller if you lack perspective.
38. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-13 03:24 · Score: 0
  
  I know some people feel insecure, but as far as projecting goes, this takes the cake.
39. Re:What a cluster... warning... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-13 03:32 · Score: 0
  
  You're the asshat for thinking a car is an investment, and thinking it's not a *necessity* for *millions* of people.
40. Re:What a cluster... warning... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-05-13 04:21 · Score: 1
  
  The alternator? Really?
  When a used car breaks down faster than you can fix it, you're better off junking it than sinking more money into it. With the Pontiac Grand Prix, the alternator went out after replacing the fuel regulator, ignition switch and other stuff over a five-year period. Also, this was my father's old car. The car died six weeks after he died from throat cancer. I took it as a sign of karma and let the car go.
41. Re:What a cluster... warning... by mjwx · 2017-05-15 00:15 · Score: 1
  
  The good news is the driver should be alerted to this problem by a instrument cluster warning light.
  The last time all the lights appeared on the dashboard of my 1999 Ford Taurus the head gasket had blown and a piston broke inside engine. My mechanic refused to work on it as it was a waste of money. That was six months after I spent $1,500 on tires and brakes. Pick-N-Pull bought it for $250.
  Mechanic was lazy.
  
  When you blow a head gasket, you simply look for a 2nd hand replacement engine. A Ford Mondeo/Taurus uses Fords most common engines, An engine swap shouldn't be more than a days labour at the most. I once got a Nissan SR20DET completely replaced for A$2250 which included a new radiator and turbo.
  
  Fixing a blown head gasket is not worth is as you dont know if the rest of the engine is good until you've got the new gasket in place, but that's why you just drop a good engine in there.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
42. Re:What a cluster... warning... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-05-15 16:01 · Score: 1
  
  Mechanic was lazy.
  My mechanic is highly rated in the neighborhood for being honest, which he learned from his father who ran the shop for 40 years. He doesn't think a car should be repaired if it breaks down faster than it can be fixed. No one told me about getting another engine. That's something I recently found out from a coworker.
WTF by Idzy · 2017-05-12 10:01 · Score: 1

The good news is the driver should be alerted to this problem by a instrument cluster warning light. If the light comes on, drivers should then turn the truck off, and then turn the key back into the on/run position to verify that the light is no longer on.
They are supposed to be worrying about a light on the dashboard after taking a significant hit that causes a rollover?
1. Re:WTF by drinkypoo · 2017-05-12 10:37 · Score: 1
  
  They are supposed to be worrying about a light on the dashboard after taking a significant hit that causes a rollover?
  Long before there is an accident, the system will light the AIRBAG warning light in the cluster if there is any problem detected with the airbag system such as sensor failure, missing airbag, etc. You are supposed to take your vehicle to the dealer ASAP if that light comes on, not drive around and get into accidents.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Smart cars by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 10:06 · Score: 0

No.
Give me a carb and mechanical parts any day.
Just waiting now by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 10:08 · Score: 0

Just waiting now for Modem/Router/Wifi hub manufacturers to do a mass recall because their products are faulty, full of security holes etc.
Given most end users are as able to update the software on the device as they are able to replace the brake pads on their car, simply supplying an update is basically worthless because
a) they don't know about them, i.e. then end user is rarely if ever informed of software updates.
b) they have no idea how to perform the update
c) a significant number has forgotten the password (or worse left it as a default).
Perhaps if the cost of a recall was the "stick" in the equation they would do a damn sight better job from the outset.
Or you could just .... by PPH · 2017-05-12 10:10 · Score: 1

... trash all the software-controlled life critical systems and put in a 5 point harness. Face it. If someone wants to maliciously hack your car, they won't just hack the brakes and steering. They'll take out the safety systems as well.

--
Have gnu, will travel.
You know.. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 10:28 · Score: 0

Sometimes, simpler is better.
We need standardized/open source ECUs. by Gravis+Zero · 2017-05-12 10:42 · Score: 1

If we've learned anything from the number of defects that are discovered in ECUs it's that they exist and people die because of them. Cars are becoming increasingly computerized which is disturbing because they are incorporating non-vital features into ECUs which are black boxes that we are just expected to trust behave properly. What we need is standardized and open source ECUs that handle all the basic systems needed for the car to function. Car companies can keep their fancy features in a secondary module but that car should be able to function and meet emission standards without it. This way, there will never be another Volkswagen type incident where they cheat the system and no more of these type sensor incidents.
Modern ECUs are not based around your old rock solid M68000 chips at 20MHz and 64KB of software, they usually run at a minimum of 200MHz with a few megabytes for software because they run full-blown operating systems.
How many people need to die easily preventable deaths before we learn?

--
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
1. Re:We need standardized/open source ECUs. by Cmdln+Daco · 2017-05-12 11:05 · Score: 1
  
  Modern ECUs are not based around your old rock solid M68000 chips at 20MHz and 64KB of software, they usually run at a minimum of 200MHz with a few megabytes for software because they run full-blown operating systems.
  I would think an M68000 based ECU would sport a Dragonball, probably the 68328.
  (the classic Palm Pilots, i.e. the Palm III, ran on this chip)
2. Re:We need standardized/open source ECUs. by Gravis+Zero · 2017-05-12 11:18 · Score: 1
  
  You forget that they need to meet automotive requirements. This requires a very wide operating temperature range as well as a coprocessor doing the computing exactly the same thing and checking if the results match. If that weren't the case then we would have approximately the same chips in our cars as we have in our smartphones.
  
  --
  Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
3. Re:We need standardized/open source ECUs. by 0100010001010011 · 2017-05-12 11:37 · Score: 2
  they usually run at a minimum of 200MHz with a few megabytes for software because they run full-blown operating systems.
  No. No. Just No.
  The top of the line MPC57xx is only ranges from 32 MHz to over 300 MHz. Most of the ones that are currently in production are more than likely the MPC56xx or MPC55xx line. All of which are much more reliable than the 68ks. The highest end/safest ones run lock step cores with a 3rd core that compares the output to make sure that they're both calculating the same values.
  For OS' it's running a RTOS of some sort, not a 'full blown OS'. There are a few different vendors: GreenHills, WindRiver, ETAS, etc.
  For compilers it's either WindRiver's Diab or Green Hills. To my knowledge GCC doesn't work on the MPC5xxx line. I've been trying to talk my boss into sponsoring a grad student to get LLVM ported so we can at least do some prototyping without paying for a license.
  And not if you're going to be using the eTPU, which requires a separate compiler.
  With most of the control algorithms written in Simulink and the HAL done in C or C++.
  
  What we need is standardized and open source ECUs that handle all the basic systems needed for the car to function.
  
  I'll be the first in line.
  So to recap:
  The dev boards start at ~$500+.
  Theres' no opensource compiler for the chips.
  There's no opensource RTOS for the chips.
  A single small team *may* be able to make ECM for vehicles ~10+ years old but unless you have a lot of money to donate to a cause, a fully opensource everything for 2017 vehicles isn't going to happen.
4. Re:We need standardized/open source ECUs. by Gravis+Zero · 2017-05-12 12:00 · Score: 1
  
  The top of the line MPC57xx [nxp.com] is only ranges from 32 MHz to over 300 MHz.
  Thus confirming what I wrote.
  
  All of which are much more reliable than the 68ks.
  68k was just an example. My point was just that they are of a significantly higher complexity.
  
  For OS' it's running a RTOS of some sort, not a 'full blown OS'
  I classify an RTOS as being a full-blown OS. Process switching makes it a full OS.
  
  Theres' no opensource compiler for the chips.
  There's no opensource RTOS for the chips.
  [...] a fully opensource everything for 2017 vehicles isn't going to happen.
  My point was that it should be a mandated requirement for vehicles. It's called regulation and thanks for making my point about how closed the systems are.
  
  --
  Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
5. Re:We need standardized/open source ECUs. by 0100010001010011 · 2017-05-12 13:11 · Score: 1
  
  minimum of 200MHz
  
  32 MHz seems a bit lower than your 'minimum'.
6. Re:We need standardized/open source ECUs. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 13:32 · Score: 0
  
  What we need is standardized and open source ECUs that handle all the basic systems needed for the car to function.
  Right, because nothing says hacker-proof like Open Source! I mean, OpenSSL is completely impossible to hack. Linux? Hacker-proof. Apache? Never been owned. The bash shell? More secure than fort knox!
7. Re:We need standardized/open source ECUs. by joelsherrill · 2017-05-12 14:03 · Score: 1
  
  You are wrong on a couple of counts. GCC does support the MPC5xxx CPUs and RTEMS (rtems.org) has run on those processors for over a decade. It has been used in automotive applications. RTEMS also supports the newer qoriq CPUs with SMP support.
8. Re: We need standardized/open source ECUs. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 14:18 · Score: 0
  
  The Dragonball is pretty rugged. Motorola probably made extended temperature parts.
9. Re:We need standardized/open source ECUs. by 0100010001010011 · 2017-05-13 00:34 · Score: 1
  
  Last I checked the GCC didn't support the PPC VLE extensions, which makes it a non-starter for our use. Did that change?
  And damn, It looks like NXP has finally done something: https://community.nxp.com/thre...
  
  RTEMS
  Has someone paid for their ISO-26262 certification? That's what holding us up. I'm trying to convince my boss that $(FOSS+Pay for the cert) $(Windriver RTOS)
10. Re:We need standardized/open source ECUs. by ArylAkamov · 2017-05-13 08:49 · Score: 1
  
  I'll be the first in line.
  A single small team *may* be able to make ECM for vehicles ~10+ years old
  We're getting there. There are tons of option, such as Megasquirt, but most of them are not open source. I know there are also options for controlling more modern automatic transmissions as well.
  There are also modified versions of Megasquirt that retain OBDII functionality.
  rusEFI looks promising, which is open source.
11. Re:We need standardized/open source ECUs. by ArylAkamov · 2017-05-13 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  We're getting there. There are tons of option, such as Megasquirt, but most of them are not open source. I know there are also options for controlling more modern automatic transmissions as well.
  There are also modified versions of Megasquirt that retain OBDII functionality.
  rusEFI looks promising, which is open source.
12. Re:We need standardized/open source ECUs. by Gravis+Zero · 2017-05-13 09:19 · Score: 1
  
  Honestly, I think the first really open system that isn't tied to a specific make and model will actually be for electric cars because they are significantly less complex. Tesla slapped on a lot of neat features that ups the complexity to new heights but the basic control system is very very simple.
  
  --
  Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Dodge the Ram by Cmdln+Daco · 2017-05-12 11:01 · Score: 1

Ask any sheep farmer what they keep a Ram on the farm for. Just to fuck the ewes.
Whenever I see a Dodge 'Ram' on the road, I think "sheepfucker." In general usage I call any of the Dodge vehicles with the sheepfucker logo on it a "sheepfucker." In particular the burly pickup trucks whose driver is clearly compensating.
I haven't seen a 'Sheepfucker' bumper sticker, but have toyed with the idea of creating one.
1. Re:Dodge the Ram by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-13 03:35 · Score: 0
  
  How mature.
Risk evaluation by caseih · 2017-05-12 11:06 · Score: 2

Just interesting how we react to safety issues and recalls and have no real concept of statistics and risk evaluation. So of the 1.3 million Ram trucks on the road covered by this recall, many of which have been safely driven for several years, only 1 death has occurred because of this and 10 injuries confirmed. So that's a reliability rating of some five 9s, which fro a purely capitalistic point of view is actually well within reason and a perfectly acceptable death rate (unless of course it affects you!). Your odds of dying in a car crash despite working safety features are orders of magnitude greater than dying in a crash in a vehicle with this flaw where this flaw caused your death. So how do we evaluate the true risk and true cost?
So on the one hand a correctable flaw probably should be corrected, but on the other hand, if the odds of it happening are near zero, from a completely economic point of view it'd be far better for the companies and the economy to do nothing and let people die at the present rate. Is the latter action morally wrong? It may be. Depends on how you evaluate the risks. Forced recalls seem like a great idea because a company is forced to foot the bill and learn from it, but in reality the costs will be passed on to consumers down the road. I do wonder where this continual threat of litigation, particularly by the NTSB, is going to lead us. Might make us safer, might just make us spend more money.
1. Re:Risk evaluation by syntotic · 2017-05-14 10:50 · Score: 1
  
  Why recall? Cant they just make some software injector tool for the model and sell it as stock for present and future model service workshops? IT kind of establishes a war against software engineers, and we know it may well be the ONLY ONE ABLE to actually program that software paying for the flies around who actually introduced the error out of ideology! IT is also a war against Car, car companies and maybe American cars? If Orientals do it, it must happen also in the USA? Can I have one of those useless cars for free, or maybe a full feet? I promise I will use it/them only in low speed roads....
Had to read that twice by Opportunist · 2017-05-12 12:15 · Score: 1

First time I realized that "ram" doesn't mean memory.
Second time I noticed that "pickup" had nothing to do with music or old TV equipment.
I am very obviously not a car geek...

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
1. Re: Had to read that twice by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 14:28 · Score: 0
  
  The "ram" means a sheepfucker, the animal a sheep farmer keeps to breed the ewes.
  There are probably sheep breeding nerds out there somewhere.
  I have never figured out how fucking sheep is masculine and worthy as a branding for pickup trucks. Just seems kind of odd. And the "ram" logo actually looks like the diagram for the female human reproductive system.
  The brand designers at Dodge are pretty weird.
2. Re: Had to read that twice by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 18:28 · Score: 0
  
  Their branding is spot on. They are selling them to men with small penis syndrome,
Fix it again tony! by Joe_Dragon · 2017-05-12 14:07 · Score: 1

Fix it again tony!
Sounds like The IT Crowd by Letophoro · 2017-05-12 14:58 · Score: 1

"Have you tried turning it off and then back on again?"
Cultural misapproprieation by Anonymous Coward · 2017-05-12 19:18 · Score: 0

I am sick and tired of the rest of the world miss appropriating our culture
This time by Dodge in the name of their vehicle.
Please leave the sheep fucking to the kiwis
Electronic seatbelt tensioners? by ArylAkamov · 2017-05-13 08:52 · Score: 1

Why? Why is this a thing?
I've never had any issues with the older, all mechanical style.