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All Fossil-Fuel Vehicles Will Vanish In 8 Years, Says Stanford Study (financialpost.com)

Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere in the world within the next eight years. As a result, the transportation market will transition and switch entirely to electrification, "leading to a collapse of oil prices and the demise of the petroleum industry as we have known it for a century," reports Financial Post. From the report: Seba's premise is that people will stop driving altogether. They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing vehicles." The value of second-hard cars will plunge. You will have to pay to dispose of your old vehicle. It is a twin "death spiral" for big oil and big autos, with ugly implications for some big companies on the London Stock Exchange unless they adapt in time. The long-term price of crude will fall to $25 a barrel. Most forms of shale and deep-water drilling will no longer be viable. Assets will be stranded. Scotland will forfeit any North Sea bonanza. Russia, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, and Venezuela will be in trouble.

21 of 1,058 comments (clear)

  1. No. by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Stanford University economist Tony Seba forecasts in his new report that petrol or diesel cars, buses, or trucks will no longer be sold anywhere in the world within the next eight years.

    Itâ(TM)s a stretch to say this for passenger autos, and maybe even busses that already run on alternative fuels. I donâ(TM)t see this in 8 to 10 years for heavy equipment and trucks. As well, there are many more things than cars, buses, trucks, planes, and heavy equipment that run on fossil fuels, oil producers will have business for a long time to come.

    They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles. Only nostalgics will cling to the old habit of car ownership. The rest will adapt to vehicles on demand. It will become harder to find a petrol station, spares, or anybody to fix the 2,000 moving parts that bedevil the internal combustion engine. Dealers will disappear by 2024. Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond. There will be a "mass stranding of existing vehicles.

    This is going to happen within 8 years? It will still be a dream in 8 years, closer, but still a dream⦠Pie in the sky from egg-headed Chardonnay swilling Stanford quiche eaters.
    Also from the actual article:

    The long-term price of crude will fall to US$25 a barrel.

    No.

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    1. Re:No. by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We all know this is insane. BeauHD's playing a game to see how many /.'ers will spend time tying to refute a preposterous article.

      cf. https://xkcd.com/386/

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    2. Re:No. by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      wishful fucking thinking.
      Also willing to wager that among people outside of the hipster crowd, those who fetishize technology, or people unfortunate to live in traffic infested ratholes like the bay area they'll have to pry steering wheels out of cold, dead hands.

    3. Re:No. by barc0001 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's pie in the sky dreaming you mean, not a stretch. I'd be astonished if 50% of the passenger cars in the developed world were electric in 8 years, let alone the globe. And that doesn't even touch commercial vehicles, motorcycles, trains, etc all of which will be much lower in electric share.

    4. Re: No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lol, I'm from Seattle too, and Seattle's as left-leaning a city as there is...everything you claim is actually democrats or independents. Was is the republicans that drilled a tunnel under the viaduct, or setup the $$$ lite rail...didn't think so...the prices are high because you ned more income to pay the taxes for all that stuff.

    5. Re:No. by aphelion_rock · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wishful thinking, I would like to see a self driving car launch a boat at a boat ramp, tow a trailer, self driving tip truck, crane or any other special purpose vehicle.
      electric vehicles will happen, so will self driving cars, I can't see a sudden cutoff date.

    6. Re:No. by stinerman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would go as far to say that in 8 years ICE vehicles will still outsell non-ICE vehicles.

    7. Re:No. by vux984 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      . I donÃ(TM)t see this in 8 to 10 years for heavy equipment and trucks. As well, there are many more things than cars, buses, trucks, planes, and heavy equipment that run on fossil fuels, oil producers will have business for a long time to come.

      Right if the bulk of auto did shift to electric it would still represent a collapse in the demand, and a collapse in the price.

      Of course if such a price collapse actually started it would change the economics in favor of owning a gas powered vehicle. Meanwhile the price of electricity is likely to go up, as the massive vehicle energy consumption shifts to the grid.

      Predicting the future is hard; who knew.

      This is going to happen within 8 years? It will still be a dream in 8 years

      Yeah... i don't really see it either. I'll be impressed if electrics dominate new car sales in 8 years. I just can't see it being a complete transition that quickly.

      They will switch en masse to self-drive electric vehicles (EVs) that are ten times cheaper to run than fossil-based cars, with a near-zero marginal cost of fuel and an expected lifespan of 1 million miles.

      There is nothing about electrics that will get them up to 1 million miles.

      The reason TDIs "only" get to 300k and 400k before giving up is not the engines. Hell if the car is in great shape otherwise, you just rebuild the engine and keep going... but the car usually isn't in great shape by that point ... the typical TDI with 400k kms on it is pretty dilapidated -- the seats are finished, the interior has rips and stains, the glovebox is broken, the exterior is covered in scuffs and dents and chips, the trunk release is broken, the struts for the hatch are gone, maybe the sunroof or powerlocks are gone, the suspension is due for replacement -- again... and it just becomes more sensible to replace the car than to fix it with everything else that is wrong.

      Theoretical long lived electrics are going to have exactly the same issue. Even if the engine can go to a million, who is going to spend the money to replace the suspension and brakes when the car is otherwise dilapidated and the whole car isn't worth the cost of the new shocks and pads and rotors and wheel bearings and cv-joints....the TDI engine is already outlasting the rest of the car.

    8. Re:No. by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      " I'm only 47, but I already vomit nearly every day and have constant diarrhea."

      You seriously need to cut back on watching Rachel Maddow.

    9. Re:No. by pipingguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Journalism is dead. It's pretty much now all speculation, opinion via "expert" talking heads, rumor-mongering, agenda-advancing, "awareness-raising", etc.

    10. Re:No. by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The physics is not there yet, but 5 or 10 or 15 years in the future we might well be there. Batteries are improving but the manufacturing cost of the batteries themselves still make the cost of electricity to charge them a round off error. So your numbers are incomplete and misleading, the cost of the batteries hidden by choosing a luxury vehicle as the data point.

    11. Re: No. by Miamicanes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      NO car available for retail purchase TODAY is capable of autonomous driving. Not even Tesla officially claims their autopilot can safely deal with anything besides lanekeeping & collision-avoidance... and even then, can only safely run at full speed on limited-access divided highways that aren't construction zones, or at low speed in bumper-to-bumper gridlock on city streets. They'll *allow* you to use autopilot under more experimental conditions, but it's not a feature they officially advertise (because they could take it away at any time with a pushed software update).

      As for "cars will be stranded in place, and owners will have to pay for disposal" -- 8 years from now -- the author is frankly nuts. The only way that could happen is if the government banned gas-fueled vehicles. Republicans would never vote for such a law at any time in the conceivable future, and I'd guess that probably 95% of DEMOCRATS would hold their noses & vote Republican if it were the only way to avoid having their most (or second-most) expensive asset rendered worthless by Democrats... which is why the Democrats wouldn't do it, either.

      The author also egregiously underestimates the impact of a car's sunk cost. Even if gas soared to $20/gallon & electricity were free, it STILL wouldn't be economically worthwhile for people who've spent $30k-$60k or more for a car to just dump it... even MORESO if resale values tanked.

      Not to mention, the free tax ride electric car owners currently enjoy won't last forever. I give 20 years, max, until at least 80% of states abolish gas taxes & replace them with some alternative that electric car owners can't sidestep (like tax meters on charging stations).

    12. Re:No. by vux984 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This would give a cost for driving 426km of 42.6L x $1.11/L = $47.29. The cost per km would be $47.29/426km = $0.111/km. In other words gasoline costs $0.111/$0.0299 = 3.7 x more or 370% more than electric per km!

      I don't know where you live, but where I live, its about 70cents or so for the gas, and another 40 cents per liter in taxes. Doing the math at 10L / 100 means $4 in taxes per 100km... or 4 cents taxes per km.

      That's more in TAXES per km than your electric vehicle costs in electricity right now. If you think the government is going to let that revenue disappear your nuts... so for a realistic comparison take your 0.0299 cents/km... and add 4 cents taxes to it. Because that's probably how its going to go.

      Suddenly, the electric ... is still better but its 7 cents vs 11 cents, which is a LOT less dramatic.

      Costs are for fossil fuel cars are going up.

      A large drop in demand, say due to millions of people turning to electrics, could turn that around though. Potentially squeezing that 7 cents to 11 cents even tighter.

      Electric will win over gasoline because it is cheaper and better.

      I think so too, i just don't think it's going to happen nearly as quickly as 8 years.

      I know tons of people who park on the street. Just drive through suburbia at night. How are they going to charge at night? My inlaws house... they couldn't get permitting to add a telsa fast charging port, they'd need a new electrical box, inspections, new wiring...big project. Millions of houses like that.

      It will happen, but it'll take a while.

    13. Re:No. by Zemran · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I am happy that a Tesla has managed 200,000 miles but you are missing a major part of the equation. Tesla cars cost stupid money and you could buy more than 200,000 miles worth of petrol with with the money you save by buying a petrol car. Tesla are leaking money at a ridiculous rate and could easily go bankrupt. That is without getting into the part about how and where does the average person recharge a car. The whole dream is based on everyone parking in a garage. Most people live in flats. This guy has obviously never travelled if he thinks that people in Manila will buy electric cars. Plug on in in the street and your charging cable will not be there in the morning. BTW, petrol did not win over steam, it won over electric. Before the model T most cars were electric. I do agree that electric will return but I do not agree with your maths or that it will happen in 8 years.

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    14. Re:No. by Zemran · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He did but you are refusing to take look at TCO and choosing to cherry pick your data. The cost of good batteries makes them more expensive than petrol cars. If you work with TCO, electric cars are more expensive than petrol but Tesla are staggeringly more expensive than petrol. That is without taking the charging problems etc. into account. The problems will not be resolved in 8 years and denying their existence only makes it harder for the electric car industry.

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    15. Re:No. by gumpish · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What the fuck browser are you using that's inserting fucking "smart" apostrophes?

      I need to know for my blacklist.

  2. real title for this "stanford not in real world" by sittingnut · · Score: 2, Insightful

    if /. still had the kind of editors that once made it great, it would not be posting such an article uncritically.
     

  3. Safe by markdavis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >"Cities will ban human drivers once the data confirms how dangerous they can be behind a wheel. This will spread to suburbs, and then beyond"

    And those of us who ENJOY driving, especially motorcycles (which can likely never be self-driving) are royally screwed. But hey, I suppose a super-safe and boring life is so much more meaningful than a a free and enjoyable one with some risk....

    Oh, make sure to ban bicycles and pedestrians too. Then start banning skateboards, roller skates/blades, horseback riding, skydiving, mounting climbing, target shooting, football, skiing, dogs, game consoles, whatever. Life is just not safe, you know.

  4. Re:Not in Africa and all of Asia by vlad30 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Owning a car has nothing to do with a place that 40 minutes outside of a city by car. You just rent one or use one of the soon-to-be-fleets of autonomous cars (or take a bus or a train). It sounds like you have a hard time grasping the freedom of not being tied down by the financial responsibility of owning your own car.

    You haven't considered what happens when you have kids where I live it is illegal now to let them walk to school unescorted under a certain age and they need to be in car seats until 7 years of age. lets see how many autonomous vehicles you will need for school drop off and pick up. with the appropriate child restraint seats. or the worker is he going to unload his vehicle every time he gets home just so it could do its next pick up. Only 2 examples I could keep going. This guy needs to get out of his ivory tower and see how people actually live

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  5. Re:clean by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, where I live, the electric vehicles are all coal-fired.

  6. Re:Not in Africa and all of Asia by DavidRawling · · Score: 3, Insightful

    OK you are close to your job now. But your partner has had to move 40 minutes further away from theirs. How do they get to work and home again? But you'll be OK because you're the only person in the world, right?