A Third of the Nation's Honeybee Colonies Died Last Year (usatoday.com)

A third of the honeybees in the United States were lost over the last year, part of a decade-long die-off experts said may threaten our food supply. USA Today reports: The annual survey of roughly 5,000 beekeepers showed the 33% dip from April 2016 to April 2017. The decrease is small compared to the survey's previous 10 years, when the decrease hovered at roughly 40%. From 2012 to 2013, nearly half of the nation's colonies died. The death of a colony doesn't necessarily mean a loss of bees, explains vanEngelsdorp, a project director at the Bee Informed Partnership. A beekeeper can salvage a dead colony, but doing so comes at labor and productivity costs. That causes beekeepers to charge farmers more for pollinating crops and creates a scarcity of bees available for pollination. It's a trend that threatens beekeepers trying to make a living and could lead to a drop-off in fruits and nuts reliant on pollination, vanEngelsdor said. So what's killing the honeybees? Parasites, diseases, poor nutrition, and pesticides among many others. The chief killer is the varroa mite, a "lethal parasite," which researchers said spreads among colonies.

Comments

Impacts

[quantaman]

There are two things I'm really curious about with this.

1) What are the real impacts of the die-offs? ie are is the total stock of bees going into decline or are beekeepers needed to put in overtime in order to breed replacement stock.

2) What's the cause of the decline in the decline? It looks like the loss has been slowly levelling off over the past few years, 30-40% is pretty drastic, is this evidence that they've evolving some kind of resistance to whatever is happening?

Re: Impacts

[Anonymous Coward]

1). There are studies on the impact of CCD on agriculture. If nothing else, the costs of colony rentals have gone up. That impacts you at the grocery store.

2). The actual cause of CCD is still undetermined. It might be a calm before the storm, or it might be something else.

Re:Impacts

[Rei]

There is no threat to honeybees (which in the US aren't even native). Queens can be bred in bulk (there are tricks to make a hive produce lots of queens), and starting a new hive only takes a queen and a handful of workers. Beekeepers can order them by mail.

These dieoffs are not about fundamental threats, but economics. It means more labour and cost to beekeepers, which they have to pass on.

The Slashdot summary presents a pretty accurate description of the reasons for the dieoffs - they appear to be multifactor, but varroa is what you find most commonly in afflicted colonies.Note that annual dieoffs are normal among honeybee colonies - 15-20% over winter is pretty typical, although it depends on location.

Bees are amazing creatures, and many of their problems have been brought on by humans. There are many bee species around the world, and many have long had their own specific parasites, which they're adapted to. As people have moved around the world, they've taken honeybees with. As a consequence, they've spread all of these local parasites and diseases around the world, into European honeybees that have no natural resistance to them. Ironically some were accidentally spread by programmes trying to breed resistance to other pests and diseases, bringing in bee stocks from around the world (a big example being the Buckfast Bee). Also, attempts to optimize bees for docility and honey production ended up reducing honeybee genetic diversity; for example, the European dark (formerly the most common in northern Europe) was considered an inferior breed, and was reduced to just a handful of colonies. But it appears that the European dark has some natural resistance to varroa, as well as being better at defending its hives from wasps (they're also much better adapted to cold climate areas).

It's interesting the means different bee species use to defend against the pests and predators that they evolved to in their natural range. One of my favorites is how Japanese honeybees fight off the nightmarish Japanese giant hornet (don't look it up if you have any fear of being stung by a huge insect). It's far too well armoured for honeybees to hurt it, so instead what they do is swarm it and beat their wings like crazy, creating heat. Because their maximum survivable body temperature happens to be just a couple degrees hotter than the hornet's maximum temperature, so they basically cook it to death ;)

Re:Impacts

[ShanghaiBill]

2) What's the cause of the decline in the decline?

Most likely restrictions and better education on the use of neonicotinoid pesticides.

30-40% is pretty drastic

Is it? What is a "normal" amount of die off? TFA gives no context for these numbers. A quick google search indicates that the natural lifetime of a queen bee is about 5 years. So that would mean a 20% die off under natural conditions.

Re: Impacts

[Anonymous Coward]

In fact, if would not be surprising if one day you would with hands trembling with hunger scoop flours from a bag labelled:

ÐYÑоÐоÐоÐÑOEÑÑÐÐннÑÐ ÐоÐÐÑÐ¾Ð Ð¾Ñ Ð½ÐÑоÐÐ ÐоÑÑÐРнÐÑоÐÑf ÐоÐÐÐнÐннÑÑ... ÐÑÐÑоРÐмÐÑÐÐÐ

Prodowol'ctwennii podarok ot naroda Rossii narodu Soyedinyonnykh Shtatov Ameriki - Food gift of the People of Russia to the People of the United States of America.

Re:Impacts

[phantomfive]

Also worth mentioning that it's a pain for crops that blossom early in the season (like almonds). Harder to get bees delivered to your farm.

Re:Impacts

[serbanp]

When the queen gets old, the workers simply produce a new one (or several, it all depends on what are the larvae fed with) and kills the old. The hive goes on. BTW, the life span of a worker bee is several months, therefore over the queen's life span multiple generations of regular bees have died - this is normal.

Colony collapse happens when a large majority of workers die off relatively quickly, straining the food supply to the point that the queen dies or there are not enough workers to tend the larvae.

The recent trend of collapse is caused by a perfect storm of more potent insecticides used in agriculture, running out of chemical options to contain the Varroa mites, and regulatory decisions to reduce the number and amount of chemical treatments the bee keeper is allowed to administer.

Re:Impacts

[jandersen]

There is no threat to honeybees (which in the US aren't even native). Queens can be bred in bulk (there are tricks to make a hive produce lots of queens), and starting a new hive only takes a queen and a handful of workers. Beekeepers can order them by mail.

Not quite true - farming practices and the beekeeping practices that are common in the US, are major threats. Pestices are not all that discerning - if they kill harmful insects, then they probably also kill the beneficial ones, and systemic pesticides like the neo-nicotinoids are absorbed into the crop plants and secreted in the nectar. Non-systemic pesticides are less likely to find their way into bees. But possibly the worst threat comes from the fact that beekeepers rely on a narrow monoculture, created by exactly the practices you described, plus of course the way in which American beekeepers in particular transport their hives from all over the US to California, where they can then exchange diseases.

Re: Impacts

[Demena]

It is reasonably certain (from France) that the use of new insecticides persist and weaken the hive enough to make varroa resistance hard.

Re: Impacts

[Rei]

You see people, that's what Kushner was trying to talk to the Russians about: food assistance in the upcoming beepocalypse. But all of you are too negative and partisan to stop and think about how he was trying to save everyone from a horrible death through starvation.

Re:Impacts

[BCGlorfindel]

There is no threat to honeybees (which in the US aren't even native). Queens can be bred in bulk (there are tricks to make a hive produce lots of queens), and starting a new hive only takes a queen and a handful of workers. Beekeepers can order them by mail.

Not quite true - farming practices and the beekeeping practices that are common in the US, are major threats. Pestices are not all that discerning - if they kill harmful insects, then they probably also kill the beneficial ones, and systemic pesticides like the neo-nicotinoids are absorbed into the crop plants and secreted in the nectar. Non-systemic pesticides are less likely to find their way into bees. But possibly the worst threat comes from the fact that beekeepers rely on a narrow monoculture, created by exactly the practices you described, plus of course the way in which American beekeepers in particular transport their hives from all over the US to California, where they can then exchange diseases.

Nice how you entirely ignored the largest threat the GP stated, as did the article and summary. The varroa mite is the primary cause of death in hives right now, outside the natural die off rate. Ironically, all the calls from the anti-pesticide crowd to protect the bees with tougher regulations on chemical usage is contributing to the problem. The only effective treatments right now for hives from the varroa mites are all... chemicals. Restricting chemicals bee farmers are allowed to use to control the mites, and mites developing resistances to what is used are a big problem and if beekeepers could receive a magic solution from the sky a method to better control mites is hands down what they would ask for. But go ahead and make arm chair proclamations about how entire industries are doing everything wrong and you've got 3 simple steps that would solve it all that somehow has eluded them entirely despite the enormous financial incentives to them in improving their methods.

Re: Impacts

[walterbyrd]

My understanding is: the same pesticides (neonics) are used in Australia, but bees in Australia are fine.

Maybe it's pesticides and the parasites together that are proving too much for the bees?

Re:Impacts

[unixisc]

More importantly, what do we lose (other than a culinary choice) if hunny (Winnie the Pooh spelling here) disappears from our grocery shelves? And by then, if it's that important, wouldn't we have figured out how to artificially make honey - w/o depriving bees of their food?

Re: Impacts

[Anonymous Coward]

Bees are not important for the honey. The honey is a minor by product of the main activity of bees, which is to pollinate other crops, like most of the fruit we humans eat.
So basically, an apple will cost $5, a pound of cherries $12-$15, etc, etc

Re:Impacts

[angel'o'sphere]

Care to point out which chemicals bee keepers are not allowed to use to kill mites? (*facepalm*)

Re:Impacts

[angel'o'sphere]

That is a queen ... not a hive.

When the queen gets old it breeds new queens to take over the hive. Actually it breeds queens all the time, but those leave the hive and form new hives.

So a die off of 20% or more of the bee population/hives is a dramatic change.

Re:Impacts

[angel'o'sphere]

More importantly, what do we lose ...
You really want to tell me you are that dumb?

Re: Impacts

[TRRosen]

And of course this is categorically false. The majority agriculture does not need pollinating at all. Rice, Wheat, Corn, Oats, tomatoes, peas, green beans, peppers, chiles, oranges.pretty much all herbs,spinach, lettuce, asparagus. The fact is only about 10% of crops depend on pollinators and a large number of those are dependent on non-honey bee species or even non-bee species. Some crops are even hurt by the presence of honey bees. True lemons and limes would get scarce but they are both easily replace by chemical factories (their juice that is).

Re:Impacts

[alvinrod]

It's far too well armoured for honeybees to hurt it, so instead what they do is swarm it and beat their wings like crazy, creating heat. Because their maximum survivable body temperature happens to be just a couple degrees hotter than the hornet's maximum temperature, so they basically cook it to death ;)

Nature is pretty fucking metal sometimes.

Re: Impacts

[Anonymous Coward]

Or maybe it's just varroa... Australia doesn't have widespread varroa mites, yet. They have had a few confirmed cases, but they aren't everywhere, yet. There isn't a place in the USA that doesn't have varroa. Our hives have them here in Louisiana. I just did a mite count two days ago. But let's not let that stop us from blaming the evil pesticides...Let me get my pitchfork.

Re:Impacts

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah. I can. Oxalic acid, the most effective chemical for treating for the varroa was just allowed in the US a few months ago.
So, it wasn't available to me last year when my beehive was almost lost to what was most certainly a virus caused directly or indirectly by varroa.

Re:Impacts

[TRRosen]

NO a die off of 20% is entirely normal. Actually its just below normal. Bees die off in the winter always have always will. Many high die off years are attributed to cold snaps dipping farther south than normal.Lots of variables cause die offs to fluctuate between 10% and 30%.

Re: Impacts

[TechyImmigrant]

1). There are studies on the impact of CCD on agriculture. If nothing else, the costs of colony rentals have gone up. That impacts you at the grocery store.

2). The actual cause of CCD is still undetermined. It might be a calm before the storm, or it might be something else.

Could we coin a bee related term such as CMOS, just to make it more confusing?

Re: Impacts

[LynnwoodRooster]

So basically, an apple will cost $5, a pound of cherries $12-$15, etc, etc

So what you're saying is EVERYTHING will cost like we shopped at Whole Foods?

Re: Impacts

[Anonymous Coward]

It is also due to the stress placed on bees due to processes of commercial bee keeping. Colonies are loaded up on trucks and transported multiple times a year based on crop timing.

A smaller scale issue is Joe Homeowner deciding that keeping bees would be great. They dive right in without enough research/education, and the colony doesn't survive.

Re: Impacts

[Anonymous Coward]

True dat! Actually, I'm that guy you're talking about. We almost lost a hive last year from what I now believe was caused by varroa. I've now done my research and will be getting varroa resistant queens. Turns out there is an entymologist 30 minutes away that has been breeding for varroa resistant traits for the past 10 years. The queens are a 50% more expensive, but it's worth it.

Re:Impacts

[angel'o'sphere]

I don't know what is normal and what not.
Point is: if a queen dies, the hive does not necessarily die.
Cold winters are no problem for European bees. I was of the impression in USA they mainly had European bees.
A friend of mine is a bee keeper for a living, none of his hives ever died, but he uses some fancy tricks like having about 1 wasp nest per 10 hives and in total about 2 hornet nests.
His observation is, having both kinds of predators around, makes the bees less lazy, more agile and more vigilant.

Re: Impacts

[angel'o'sphere]

Just because you buy spinach or lettuce seeds in a farmer's store it does not mean the plant does not need pollination by insects/bees to form those seeds.
Tomatoes and Asparagus are pollinated by bees/insects.
So half your list is wrong. Bottom line 90% of the world's food plants are polinated by insects/bees.

Re: Impacts

[Demena]

You appear to be misinformed

Re:Impacts

[jandersen]

Nice how you entirely ignored the largest threat the GP stated, as did the article and summary. The varroa mite is the primary cause of death in hives right now

Glad you liked it. I didn't ignore it, I just didn't choose to pick that one out, because I think it is obvious that varroa wouldn't have been a problem, if people didn't ship the bloody things around the globe. I don't know if people in general know this, but it has for decades been common practice to buy queens and have them sent in a small packet by mail - I doubt there is a specialist vet at either end of the transaction, checking out the health of each of those queens, so that is just one, very efficient way of spreading varroa.

Re: Impacts

[eric_harris_76]

There's reason to believe it's new amateur beekeepers who don't follow best practices, either out of correctable ignorance or deliberate avoidance of the "unnatural". Their hives are susceptible to mites and other problems, which can then spread to the hives of more responsible beekeepers, professional or amateur.

The last credible info I'd seen on bee colony numbers shows them to be recovering nicely.

And of course, the people in the business of providing replacement bees are working like mad to find and breed bees that are resistant. And they're not the only ones working the problem from than angle, of course. (And so are the bees, come to think of it.)

Re:Impacts

[Reziac]

Normal die-off is around 20%. And a queen's *productive* lifespan is about 3 years, degrades in her 4th year and becomes a liability in her 5th year, since hives with old queens get mean and difficult to handle.

Re: Impacts

[Anonymous Coward]

First learn about growing crops. Then come back and we can chat. You don't know the first thing about growing anything.

Without pollination you don't get any tomatoes, apples, cherries, almonds, walnuts, pumpkin, squash, watermelon, etc etc etc. That list can go on for another 100 varaities of plants. Also while you can plant carrots from seed and onions from bulb. If you want more seeds it requires pollination. Without pollination our food supply dies in 1 year

Re:Impacts

[martinfb]

Nice essay. Yet, I might beg to differ about the "no threat" perspective.

There is a real threat if beekeepers stop their interventions.
While honeybees are not indigenous to North America, they have since become an integral part of the economy.
As long as beekeepers work to proliferate the species, there may be a reduced threat.
Yet, if we did nothing to support honeybees, it is very probable they would die off virtually completely.
Note that China is so short on honeybees that they are manually pollinating crops - by the hands of humans!

Re: Impacts

[Rei]

Sorry, but the GP is correct and you are wrong. Lettuce is self-pollinated. Spinach can be either wind or insect pollinated. In the field, you don't want either of them pollinated, you want to harvest before they bolt (flower). The amount of acreage required for seed production is vastly smaller than that for food production, to the extent that even if pollination was required (it's not), it could be done by hand or with mechanical systems. Tomatoes get improved fruit set when pollinated, but still produce fruit when self-pollinated, and there are even some cultivars which can only be self-pollinated. Most commercial asparagus these days is male-only cultivars, not pollinated at all, because female plants waste energy on producing seeds rather than stalks.

Re:Impacts

[Rei]

The "no threat" aspect is that the annual colony death rate would have to reach 99% everywhere on Earth in order to exceed the rate in which queens can be bred; anywhere on Earth that queens can be bred with an annual colony loss rate 98% or less, they can have excess to export, in bulk. And even then you could work around it by doing queen breeding in highly controlled environments. Because of this, it's essentially impossible to wipe out honeybees. Going from 15-20% annual loss rates to 30-40% just isn't going to cut it.

But higher annual loss rates can certainly hurt the economics for keeping them.

Even in a "no pollination services" scenario, that still doesn't mean "no growing pollination-requiring crops". It does however mean "no pesticide-intensive single-species single-cultivar monoculture". If you want to support local pollinators to a level sufficient to meet your needs, you have to spread out the flowering periods in a given region, and make sure not to wipe them out with broad-spectrum pesticide application. Having everything bloom all at once means there's suddenly a wealth of food that there's not enough insects to take advantage of, and then it's starvation for them for the rest of the year.

Of course, single-species, single-cultivar monoculture is more economically efficient. And it's easier just to wipe out everything except for when you're paying for pollination than to practice proper IPM and only do careful, targeted pest interventions. But thankfully at least the latter is slowly changing.

Re: Impacts

[angel'o'sphere]

Of course you farm them before they flower.
However that is a tricky thing as they litteraly flower over night. In german we use a bastardized version of the word 'shot' for that process.
The lettuces I checked a few days ago all where insect pollinated.
Self polinating and wind polinating as in corns/grasses is btw. not the same thing.
Bottom line he claimed that a huge deal of our food plants would not require insects, when actually about 90% do.
Anyway, I checked again, Lettuce has certain type of flower https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..., those are primarily pollinated by insects and only by wind if they are planted close enough together. So says the german article.
I linked the english version, as I could not translate the flower form easily.

Re: Impacts

[Rei]

only by wind if they are planted close enough together.

You mean like in a field of lettuce? ;)

Self polinating and wind polinating as in corns/grasses is btw. not the same thing.

And lettuce does all three - self, wind, and insect pollination. Yes, lettuce will self-pollinate if not otherwise pollinated. Another link. And another.

Lettuce simply does not require insects to go to seed. Or cross-pollinate. Insects allow lettuce to cross-pollinate over long distances, but that's irrelevant (and even undesirable) for mass market seed production.

Bottom line he claimed

Bottom line, everything that you said he claimed wrong about, he was actually right about.

Re: Impacts

[angel'o'sphere]

If you are nitpicking, then he was right about lettuce 'somewhat'.

Anyway, his main claim was: we don't need to care about bees as most important plants (neither spinache nor lettuce is important in context of callories and proteins) are not depending on bees.

90% of our food plants do depend on 'bees'. (But actually not on 'enslaved' honey bees ;D, wild humble bees do more pollination than honey bees in germany. However the last few years those are on a decline, too)

Your decission who is more right or more wrong :)

Re: Impacts

[Rei]

1. Open up your refrigerator.
2. Look at each object in there, and the percentage of its ingredients by mass require pollination to produce crops.

You'll find that the vast majority do not.

Most plants that require pollination - while they're often tasty things - make up only small portions of our diet. Grasses that animals graze on? Wind pollinated. Animal feeds (predominantly grain)? Wind pollinated. That's meat and dairy. What about the bulk plant staples? The biggest things are grains, such as wheat, corn, rice, etc (wind / self pollination); legumes, particularly soy (self-pollinating); tubers, mainly potatoes and sweet potatoes (again, no need for pollinators); etc. What about plants that aren't bulk staples but are important for nutrients? So that's root vegetables like carrots (no pollinators needed), greens like lettuce (no pollinators needed) and brassicas (no pollinators needed), onions, etc. Add in those which are optional pollinators and/or have self-fertile cultivars, like tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, squash, etc. What things are left? It's mainly sugary things - berries, tree fruits, melons, etc, as well as some nuts. Again, tasty, but not at all essential for the diet.

And of course it's a giant red herring because even if you can't breed a self fertile version of various crops, you can either hand pollinate (increases the price, but it absolutely can be done, and is done for some crops) or use IPM + multiculture rather than heavy pesticide coverage + monoculture. And if hand pollination was required, you know what would happen, almost guaranteed, within five years? You'd see big industrial pollination equipment hitting the market. Agricultural equipment today is already a lot more complicated than that (ever seen some of the nut-harvesting equipment that's out there now?).

Honeybees simply aren't necessary. They're nice to have, absolutely. But necessary? No.

And that's all a moot point because honeybees aren't going anywhere. Going from 15-20% annual colony loss to 30-40% annual colony loss just means that you have to pay a little more for pollination services.

Re: Impacts

[angel'o'sphere]

Well,
but that was not what the author claimed :D
Unfortunately in my fridge are non of those foods.
I basically only eat fish/meat with salad. And as I'm a Thai friend, the typical thai dishes around green papaya or soups.

Going from 15-20% annual colony loss to 30-40% annual colony loss just means that you have to pay a little more for pollination services.
It also means that wild bees probably die out.

Maybe at the farm level.

[Anonymous Coward]

From my own experience with the garden variety however:

Bumble Bee diversity is up. Including both smaller and larger varieties than in the past.
Wasp diversity is up. Smaller varieties than in the past.
The little sand flies are just as common as before.
Honey bees have declined, but there are at least three new varieties apparent compared to in the past.

Having said that, bee QUANTITY was much lower for part of this year. However our main freeze came about later in the year (around march) than it usually would, so much of the 'spring spurt', of both flowers, and insects got shocked/killed off as a result.

Given all these factors, while the factory farming may take a major hit this year, if you're handling your own garden and are careful in your selection of crops, you will be doing just fine. There are far more pollinators than honey bees and a number that are specialized to particular varities of flowers/plants. (For instance the 'throwback' varieties of figs actually require a wasp species for fertilization. The wasp's egg laying behavior is responsible for passing pollen into the fig, before the wasp larva completes its livecycle by burrowing out of the fig and flying away to start the cycle anew next year.

Re:Maybe at the farm level.

[bagofbeans]

Everyone with a garden or window box can help by growing plants that pollinators feed on. Plenty of low water ones like verbena, yarrow, valerian, salvia... and attractive flowers.

The worst is astroturf which is a bio-graveyard for the sake of zero water usage, whereas there are many low-water choices.

Imagine That

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean that genetically engineering the nation's major food crops to create their own pesticides is harmful to HELPFUL insects too? Pffft. Next you'll be telling us it's toxic to humans.

Re:Imagine That

[Anonymous Coward]

Talk to an etymologist before you make such claims. The two I spoke with were much more concerned about varroa. But what do I know, I only have 3 beehives and have been researching this extensively...
Bees are currently being assaulted by varroa, SHB, tracheal mites, nosema to name a few.. Why is it everybody's go to to blame pesticides?

Re:Imagine That

[Anonymous Coward]

Pesticides aren't likely the only cause, but I'm sure they don't help matters any. It's safe to assume most ecological disasters aren't limited to a single source otherwise they wouldn't be as widespread. Nature is pretty good at balancing itself when faced only with a narrow set of problems. We therefore should be open to looking at any and all possibilities closely.

Re: Imagine That

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds logical and I can't disagree with your reasoning. But, from what I have seen the data doesn't suggest a causal link to pesticides being a problem. It may be in part a cause. But we don't know that yet. And it appears there is this theme that people want to blame pesticides, when we know for a fact that varroa are a huge part of the problem.
My personal opinion is that more focus should be on producing varroa resistant bees. Varroa are nasty little critters. They suck the blood of the bees and cause all kinds of different diseases in the bees. And they are everywhere. The article states that they travel from colony to colony... That's not technically true. They're actually on the flowers. Every hive has them (except in Australia) or will get them.

What about natural bee colonies ?

[Fly Swatter]

No mention of their state of health. Only the ones enslaved by keepers.

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Rei]

"Enslaved" is a pretty mean way to describe having their shelter provided by the beekeeper, along with routine inspections for (and treatments of) parasites that would kill them. Yes, the keeper will rob honey from the hive, but not enough to kill it during the winter - and may well supplement the hive for the winter. Keepers that offer pollination services also move their bees from one rich food source to the next.

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[fahrbot-bot]

No mention of their state of health. Only the ones enslaved by keepers.

Whenever I pull waterlogged bees from my pool, I put them on the bench and give them a drop of honey. They slurp it up while they dry off then they fly away. Don't know if it helps in the grand scheme of things, but, hey, I saved and fed some wild bees ...

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Anonymous Coward]

You need a 6-hour course on human privilege to truly begin to understand.

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Enslaved? Are you REALLY that stupid? Do you need a safe space?

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Anonymous Coward]

"More than 700 of the 4,000 native bee species in North America and Hawaii are believed to be inching toward extinction"

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-bees-idUSKBN1685NG

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Anonymous Coward]

i can see him with a tiny whip and a bunch of bees tied to racks wearing tiny leather hoods.

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Anonymous Coward]

So we're not EXPLOITATIVE as a species, we're SYMBIOTIC! Just like how we breed cattle, sheep, pigs, chicken, goats, etc.

Oh, maybe those are bad examples.

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[hyades1]

Honey bees in North America are domestic by definition. Other species of bees are getting hit very hard by neonicotinoid pesticides, especially various bumble bee species.

At least have the common courtesy to inform yourself, even minimally, before you open your ignorant yap about stuff like this.

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Zemran]

I am now imagining unionised bees. The Bee Workers Union...

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bees can fly away.
Humans without jobs can starve.
Keepers are the slaves.

Tyler's not here right now.

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[thegarbz]

The No.1 union for the working bee.

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Bruinwar]

From what I've read in recent years, feral European honeybee hives are almost all gone in North America. Almost in that now & then one is discovered.

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Anonymous Coward]

If they can teach bees to play football, can they teach bees to remove varroa mites?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4253202/Bees-taught-play-FOOTBALL.html

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, should have said concentration camp.

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually you may kill the hive. There is chance honey contains spores (for example American foulbrood - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_foulbrood) that may infect whole colony. Burning whole colony is usual way to 'treat' it ..

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Anonymous Coward]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKweqxWUC38

Re: What about natural bee colonies ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually they can and do:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.harbobeeco.com/&ved=0ahUKEwjiq8Xq8pDUAhUH6IMKHTJXDTcQFggeMAA&usg=AFQjCNG9lLtnuArVMjk8oZDIfhLZYjYrLA&sig2=z7MQcPgP9Ok18MLccYk6SA

Re: What about natural bee colonies ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm, I'll have to tell my father in law that the bee hive in his attic that my wife and I extracted and transplanted into a hive in our backyard was a rare hive...

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Sir Holo]

If you see a bee sitting on the ground, it is probably just resting for a while.

It will fly on after taking its little break.

Re: What about natural bee colonies ?

[Anonymous Coward]

slaves are just slaves, not wonderful

Re: What about natural bee colonies ?

[Rei]

Bees can (and do) leave any time they want.

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Reziac]

Technically, European honeybees are an invasive species in North America, so if you want to go all deep-green, you should be calling for their extermination in the wild. How many of our native bees have they replaced?

And actually, wild colonies don't do terribly well and tend to be small; off-season starvation is a major problem. Beekeepers feed and water their bees (that's what the sugar-water stations around commercial hives are for).

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[CanadianMacFan]

The bees used in US factory farming have a terrible life. The hives start the year in the south eastern US where they are kept for the winter. They are sent on a loop across the US with stops in California for the almond pollination and Washington State for the apple pollination to end back up where they started. The hives are stacked up on the back of a tractor trailer and covered with a tarp when moved via the highway system. The bees arrive at an area and are fed a diet of one crop for a couple of weeks before being packed up and moved to the next place. It's not a healthy way to use the bees.

The bees need a varied diet and shouldn't have the hives shipped around everywhere because it stresses the bees. But in order to have hives present on the fields year round the farmers would have to provide some other food source for the bees and that would cut into the profits. Almond, or apple, trees bloom for just a couple of weeks in the year so what does the farmer do for the other approximately 11 months? We can't continue treating nature as if it is just something for us to use without worrying about the consequences.

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[martinfb]

Agreed. "Enslaved" shows a misconception about beekeeping.

Having a pet is more closely related to "enslaving" anything.
Bees are free to go. When a colony grows strong and big, usually as a result of the beneficial care of beekeepers, they will make another queen and half the colony will split with her. This is how the species propagates.
(Of course, saavy beekeepers would provide a new home for that swarm, and the cycle continues.)

On the other hand, if your dog does it's natural thing, like bark at a passer by, the owner usually shushes the pet.
Which is closer to being the "enslaved" entity here?

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[Rei]

*** This. ***

Never feed bees honey from the store. If you want to give them something to eat, pretty much anything sugary except honey is better. Honey can be a disease vector for bees. A commercial packaging operation receives the honey from a huge number of hives, and at least some of them are likely to be carrying bee diseases.

Re:What about natural bee colonies ?

[painandgreed]

No mention of their state of health. Only the ones enslaved by keepers.

Hey everybody! I found the vegan!

plant some clover or other flowers where you live

[Anonymous Coward]

you can buy 10lb bags of pesticide-free clover seed cheaply from amazon or elsewhere.
blossoms with nice little white or purple flowers which bees just love-- you'll get hundreds of them buzzing around in a 5'x5' patch.
the clover is self-propagating if you let it mature to drop it's own seed, and when it's dried out you can mulch it or feed it some critter.

Re:Honey bees are invasive

[ShanghaiBill]

The honey bee is an invasive species in North America.

So are humans.

Bees

[Anonymous Coward]

Spring Bees collect nectar in flowering cherry garden
https://youtu.be/ZX6-0MnF4tA

Lovely

[rsilvergun]

and we just put a bunch of anti-science nut jobs who want to dismantle the only source of organized response to crisis in power. Yeah, yeah, I know. Nobody likes partisanship around here. But come one. I think it's pretty clear these guys aren't worried about themselves or us...

Re:Honey bees are invasive

[Anonymous Coward]

I fail to see the problem here

Then you must be a complete idiot.

Re:plant some clover or other flowers where you li

[Anonymous Coward]

If you stop mowing your lawn, there will plenty of clover. Lawns allowed to grow to a height of about 4 or 5 inches are loaded with clover.

African or European honeybees?

[Anonymous Coward]

Note: this isn't meant to incite the comical "African or European?" Monty Python reference, although it would be relevant. :-)

Worth pondering: could expansion of the African honeybee (i.e. "African killer bee") help this situation at all?

The majority of honeybees in the United States are still the European (Italian?) species, but as known, the African honeybee have been making their way into the United States for 30 years (and recently managed to reach Silicon Valley, for example). "Killer bees", despite being more defensive (and will send nearly the entire hive after an offender, while European bees will only send at most 10-20% of the hive), are significantly "better workers" (they harvest substantially more pollen and/or nectar, and up to 2x more honey (see an old 70s In Search Of... episode for reference material)).

South America, which originally imported the African honeybee to the Americas (and released it into the wild by accident), is now predominantly populated by said type and has learned to live with it reliably. Could we learn to do the same? There are obviously major side-effects, but it's worth considering. Any entomologists around who might have thoughts on the matter?

Re:African or European honeybees?

[John.Banister]

At http://articles.extension.org/pages/73118/africanized-bees:-better-understanding-better-prepared I read the following sentence about Africanized (crossbred with African) bees

Moretto et al (1991) found grooming behavior of African bees in Brazil to be eight times more efficient at removing Varroa than Italian bees and 31 percent of infested African honey bee workers removed Varroa by their own or another bee’s grooming action (Moretto 1997).

Considering that the mites are less problem, and that these bees are more difficult for commercial apiaries to use, I reckon that the die-offs due to mites reported by beekeepers are about European bees.

Re: African or European honeybees?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah it always works out so well when we do things like that doesn't it!

Re: African or European honeybees?

[Hognoxious]

The snakes will eat them, and then die in winter. Or something.

Re:plant some clover or other flowers where you li

[freeze128]

Do you want bees?
Cause that's how you get bees.

Re: Trump hates bees

[Anonymous Coward]

This. You didn't hear about this before he became our ruler.

Don't worry, Monsanto will help

[Anonymous Coward]

everything the bees did for free, you will now have to pay Monsanto for, and they will own every single plant that their products touch.

Thank you Trump!

[Anonymous Coward]

I am sure its his fault!

5000 beekeepers too the survey?

[Cornwallis]

There are about 1000 here in Vermont alone.

The 5000 that took the survey... do they say how much experience they've had and whether that affected the outcome? Did they treat for mites or other diseases?

Most likely the majority of those who took the survey are new beekeepers who are all agog at themselves and, like anyone truly into a new hobby are sticking thier fingers into everything bee-related because "Oh, the bees!" I would bet 50 lbs of honey (I'm a beekeeper) that the majority of those who took the survey are newly-minted beekeepers which equals dead hives due to lack of experience.

Re:5000 beekeepers too the survey?

[Imrik]

If anything it is far more likely that the survey overrepresented experienced beekeepers as it is harder to keep track of those new to it. Also, this is an annual survey, so many of the participants are probably from previous years.

Re:5000 beekeepers too the survey?

[Reziac]

Professional beekeepers are too damn busy to waste time on surveys. And if the survey has any brains, it'll ask "How long" and "how many hives" precisely to sort for experience.

Hint: the pros move their hives on medium-sized trucks.

Wasn't it due to one type of insecticide?

[MtViewGuy]

Wasn't there a link of bees dying in big numbers due to the over use of insecticides that are based on neonicotinoids? And why the EPA hasn't considered severely restricting or banning their use?

Re:Wasn't it due to one type of insecticide?

[Anonymous Coward]

Banning the use of those incecticides would be damaging to Monsanto, Big Gov's favorite little pet who is slowly being groomed for literally owning the production of crops and grains in the U.S.

Re:Wasn't it due to one type of insecticide?

[walterbyrd]

Isn't Monsanto now owned by Bayer?

Re:Wasn't it due to one type of insecticide?

[TRRosen]

No there has been no evidence of this. There are certain pesticides if applied at certain times that can cause some issues. Basically you don't apply while the crop is the bees main food source. apply before or after flowering. The fact is neonicotinoids are used almost exclusively in many areas that have no bee die off issues at all. The truth is the pesticides used before (organophosphates(same as nerve gas)) did much more damage.

Re:Wasn't it due to one type of insecticide?

[TRRosen]

Banning them would be bad for everyone as the alternatives are much more dangerous.

Re:Wasn't it due to one type of insecticide?

[gtall]

The EPA has been taken over by anti-science, Christian dolts. The Earth only exists because the Creator gave it to them for a good fucking, and they intend to get on with the job. Don't count on the EPA doing anything sensible until Agent Orange is out of the White House.

other insects gone too this spring

[Anonymous Coward]

incredibly small number of insects of any type this spring in north east usa!

Charging for pollination?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sice when do beekeepers charge farmers for pollination? Never heard of such a thing over here in Europe.

Re:Charging for pollination?

[Demena]

Then you have selective deafness. Most places the farmer pays the bee keeper or the bee keeper pays the farmer. Some crops don't need much pollination but produce lots of honey and vice versa. It is an ecology and the economics reflects that.

Re:Charging for pollination?

[TRRosen]

This is because farms are smaller in Europe and there is much more diversity. But when tens of thousands of acres are planted with the same crop as in america's corn and wheat areas there is little open land to support bees. This is referred to as monoculture. When the area is so dominated by one crop, even if it is bee friendly it all flowers within a few weeks leaving almost no food source outside that window. This is why California Almond growers as so dependent on commercial bees. The groves were made by irrigating the desert and there is not no other fertile areas for other plants.

No, just his head is up his ass.

[Anonymous Coward]

And without any bees up there (let's not speculate what is), he can't see the problem.

Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

A firm distributes infertile mosquitos, which mates with ehe females abu do not have offspring.

Could they do that with the mites?

Re:Solution

[TRRosen]

AAAAAAHHHHHH GMO's Your trying to KILL US ALL! Yeah crazy shit like thats why. The nuts jobs afraid everything they don't understand, don't understand much.

Re: Honey bees are invasive

[Imrik]

Stop bringing climate change into stories where it doesn't belong. Blaming things on climate change that have nothing to do with it only serves to make the climate change deniers case seem stronger.

Re:Honey bees are invasive

[Imrik]

Humans also brought a lot of the crops in question here.

Obligatory

[DontBeAMoran]

Neonicotinoids are the problem:
https://actions.sumofus.org/a/...
https://phys.org/news/2016-04-...
http://www.motherjones.com/tom...

Hey, fuck you man

[Anonymous Coward]

Ive been stockpiling dogfood and dirtcookies. Putin can keep his snowcones and hookers because I remember how cruel that Russian BDSM expert Nina Riser was to Hans Riser.

Putin can gobsing Blue Lagoon in Haiti and they too will not share their dirt cookies.

Maybe it's varroa + neonicotinoids?

[walterbyrd]

Bees could survive one, or the other, but not both?

FYI: having raised some hives and talking around

[bussdriver]

1) The mites are a bigger problem if you unnaturally raise huge numbers of bees near each other; industrialized bee production.

2) Most bees are 1 breed which is more susceptible. Industrialized problem again: a mono-culture.

3) non-industrial bee keepers keep telling me that it's not a big problem for them... but that depends upon neighbors - mine died because of the neighbors (and they were a tougher Russian variety too:)

4) Pesticides, which Europe is handling properly will continue in the USA until bee extinction and then maybe we'll finally overcome the corruption.

5) Putting in bee brushes on the hive entrance can help with mites; but it's a cure all. All the resources are being put into saving the weakened bees instead of dealing with the mite problem. Given how the mites can be detected growing in the cells in the hive one would think there would be some method somebody could come up with to extract them from cells... like a robot or something-- Me, I was thinking that laser printer bug zapper (paul allen?) helped fund which was pointless for africa could be used for multiple hive entrances to zap the mites on the backs of bees. Or something which kicked out entering bees with mites on them (although with population issues...)

correction

[bussdriver]

the brushes are not a cure all. it's just something i read about that can help.

Re:plant some clover or other flowers where you li

[Anonymous Coward]

I think clover is lovely. I think long, indigenous grassy fields are lovely. But good luck growing them anywhere without people (or your HOA, condo board, etc.) giving you bad looks. What's so great about short lawns of green sameyness? Fine, to each their own, but don't force me to do it your way.

It's neonicotinoids

[X10]

Neonicotinoids (Monsanto's Roundup) are a major cause of bees death. But Mr Trump will not do anything about that. Nor, as it seems, will the EU.

Re:It's neonicotinoids

[angel'o'sphere]

The EU forbade usage of Neonicotinoids for many usages during times where bees are most active. It got sued for that by Bayer Dr plus all.
In a few weeks the usage will most likely be completely forbidden. Or reduced to inside greenhouses and very rare emergency cases.

Re:It's neonicotinoids

[Kernel Kurtz]

Glyphosate (Roundup) is not a neonic. It is not even an insecticide.

https://geneticliteracyproject...

Re:It's neonicotinoids

[Rei]

They're mixing up their "spooked by anything related to chemistry" talking points ;)

Re: FYI: having raised some hives and talking arou

[Anonymous Coward]

Some breeders breed for removal of drone brood with varroa in the cells. I don't know how they do it, but that trait exists along with the better grooming.
Additionally, you state you lost your Russian queen because your neighbor had varroa (a few years ago we lost our Russian queen hive, too)... I've got news for you. The varroa are in the flowers.... They are literally everywhere. If you are in the US and keep bees, you've got varroa or soon will.

Re: Honey bees are invasive

[hey!]

While AC is not correct in attributing the varroosis susceptibility of honey bees to climate change (at least as far as temperate North America is concerned) it is not the mite infection per se that kills colonies but secondary viral infections that follow, like deformed wing virus. The ecological link, if any, of those viruses to climate change is at present unknown, at least as far as I've heard.

There *has* been a documented decline in native pollinators around the world. This is not a crisis *yet*, but given the importance of pollination it's a reasonable cause for long term concern. If you look at just bumblebees, it's clear that there isn't just one cause that's doing this. It's a bunch of things, like habitat loss, pesticide use, invasive species and infections.

Climate change is linked to some of these issues such as habitat loss and invasive species, although obviously it's not the sole cause of those things. Habitat disruption and invasive species in turn play a role in novel pathogen emergence. Pathogenic organisms often exist in a low level equilibrium with local hosts, only to spill out of a habitat when it comes in contract with a novel animal population, or the native population changes its range.

The bottom line is that anything that disrupts habitats on a large geographic scale is going to have consequences.

The Australian distraction

[Anonymous Coward]

Neonics are used in Australia and the Bees are fine is a flawed argument out of the Bayer Cropscience and Syngenta AG playbook, better known as the Australian distraction.
http://www.theabk.com.au/articles/2016/8/30/neonicotinoids-in-australia-part-2

"The Nation", huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

You know not only US citizens read this, right?

Re:plant some clover or other flowers where you li

[Rei]

I used to live in the US, in Iowa, and I always let my lawn grow longer than the neighbors - damn them if they didn't like it. Every spring it was a shower of colour - purple and white from the violets, yellow from the dandelions, white from clover, etc. I refused to mow it until the flowers were withering and the dandelion was starting to go to seed. If everyone did that, pollinator populations near settled areas would be orders of magnitude higher than they are now.

Here in Iceland I have a good chunk of land in the countryside, which I wouldn't even dream of mowing. Lots of thyme, crowberries, wildflowers down by the river, etc. The land could really use some restoration, though, historic overgrazing has really depleted our soils. I have mixed feelings on the possibility of planting lupine - it's beautiful, does its job, provides pollen, and generally disappears after several decades when it can no longer compete with native plants in the now-fertile soil. But it's non-native, invasive, and slightly poisonous to livestock.

Re: Honey bees are invasive

[Imrik]

The annual variations in weather are orders of magnitude greater than the changes so far from overall climate change. If climate change is a significant part of why bees are dying, they would have died off centuries ago. If climate change continues unabated, it is likely that it will kill them and a lot of other things off, but it is not why they are dying now.