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Russian Cyber Hacks On US Electoral System Far Wider Than Previously Known (bloomberg.com)
An anonymous reader shares a Bloomberg article: Russia's cyberattack on the U.S. electoral system before Donald Trump's election was far more widespread than has been publicly revealed, including incursions into voter databases and software systems in almost twice as many states as previously reported. In Illinois, investigators found evidence that cyber intruders tried to delete or alter voter data. The hackers accessed software designed to be used by poll workers on Election Day, and in at least one state accessed a campaign finance database. Details of the wave of attacks, in the summer and fall of 2016, were provided by three people with direct knowledge of the U.S. investigation into the matter. In all, the Russian hackers hit systems in a total of 39 states, one of them said. The scope and sophistication so concerned Obama administration officials that they took an unprecedented step -- complaining directly to Moscow over a modern-day "red phone." In October, two of the people said, the White House contacted the Kremlin on the back channel to offer detailed documents of what it said was Russia's role in election meddling and to warn that the attacks risked setting off a broader conflict.
The plot thickens...
Fake news
at least thats where the guys spoofing IPs made it look like all the hacks were coming from.
at length about why computer voting was bad? Now there are investigators to suit a political agenda, but they could have done this investigation during the last 12 years. Suddenly there's a problem but it's intended to erode confidence in the current administration.
This article just dropped and I am already seeing a whole lot of stupid in the comments. Take this shit seriously, you twats. Things like this can topple nations.
How can you tell either way without an investigation?
When at first you don't succeed, double down!
We've been hearing, non-stop for almost a year, about "Russians Hacked the Election!", without a single shred of evidence, except from "unnamed sources" and shit. When we have the source (WikiLeaks) telling us ... it wasn't the Russians or any state actor.
It was the Russians that caused Hillary's medical problems
It was the Russians that caused Hillary Campaign to ignore the Rust Belt
It was the Russians that caused Hillary and the DNC to conspire to rig the Primary
It was the Russians that caused Podesta to be a douchbag
It was the Russians that caused Hillary to lose. THAT is the ONLY explanation !
It was the Russians who caused the American people to be stupid and vote for Trump.
Keep it up guys, and you'll never get back in power.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
I would never even vote in an electronic booth. I mean why bother? We know that they are hopelessly insecure. What are we, a nation of 5 year olds? Are we so naive as to believe that if we use insecure voting machines someone isn't hacking them. Voting in an electronic voting machine, with no paper record, is pointless. I have never lived in a state that braindead, but a lot of unfortunate souls do.
Tell us how you can hack paper ballots.
That's telling him! What was it Putin said about empty threats?
the banks won. the defense industry won. the rich people won. But those would have won either way.
You don't hack the ballot, you use propaganda to influence voters.
So the NSA was so busy hacking everybody else and creating viruses that they couldn't protect us from election hacking. Why do we pay these guys?
All of this reminds me of the Macarthy Red Scare.
Tell us how Russia controls Facebook
And this is only half of the story. Read this, this, and this...and you might begin to understand the breadth and the scope of what Russia is doing online. The Kremlin has built an entire industry manned by thousands, whose sole purpose is to get online and sew chaos, confusion, and doubt. They are why, when you discuss any issue that reflects poorly on Russia on any major website, you get marginalized and bombarded with talking points.
There are conservatives who mirror the Kremlin's message, but these buildings filled with thousands of paid trolls are the originals and the instigators. This is not a game, read the Times story above and you will see the real world consequences; Russia can create fake hysteria in America, made up disasters, and form political causes out of the ether which sway American policy in the direction they like. Russia, right this very second, and since 2014, and into the future--is at war with you, with me, with every Conservative and every Democrat and every Independent--and they don't care at all what you want. They care what 1 man wants, and what he wants is to say fuck you and your country.
And then he came out and said the elections were secure and no Russian involvement had affected the outcome!
You don't hack the ballot, you use propaganda to influence voters.
You mean just like politicians do?
The Kremlin has built an entire industry manned by thousands, whose sole purpose is to get online and sew chaos, confusion, and doubt.
So what you are saying is Russia has built a Shadow 4-Chan.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Every single one of these stories tiring trump to Russian hackers have as sources "people familiar with the matter". Can we get one source to go on the record? One official document that shows this? Anything other than "anonymous sources say..."
I understand that sometimes sources have to be anonymous but we are talking about the presidency of the USA and the integrity of our voting systems! Someone grow a pair and go on record!
And people keep berating me when I tell them that it doesn't matter which branch of The Party wins.
Seriously, the whole shit in the US smells more and more like the democracy theater they had in the Soviet states. Some countries there allowed you to actually vote for different candidates. Yes, really. They even had some parties to offer a puppet show of democracy (quite literally so). But in the end, they all stood for exactly the same. Maybe you could hear some sort of nuance on this or that topic, but in the end, the socialism had to win at the end, the fight towards communism continues and The Party is always right.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You don't hack the ballot, you use propaganda to influence voters.
You mean just like politicians do?
...and media corporations, and special interest groups, and political parties, and talk radio jocks, and co-workers, and advertisers (to an extent), and even private corporations (again, to an extent), and...
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Does it really matter whether the wig or the plastic doll did it? Turd sandwich or giant douche (and you may even choose who is who), does it matter?
Be honest.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It's worth remembering that the US has (or rather had) spies in the Russian FSB and wider Russia:
http://www.newsweek.com/has-putin-just-arrested-two-american-spies-548528
"News broke on January 24 that two Russians—Sergei Mikhailov, the second-highest-ranking officer in the cyber-intelligence unit of the Federal Security Service (FSB), and Ruslan Stoyanov, a private cybersecurity analyst specializing in antivirus programs [side note, he's EX FSB]—were arrested on charges of treason."
And that two of these were arrested a few days after Trump got into power and got hold of an unredacted piss memo naming a current and former FSB agent who had supplied intelligence on the Putin election interference plans.
The obvious implication is, that Trump got hold of the piss memos and passed the names of these spies to the Russians for revenge.
There was a misdirection, a claim that these two WERE BEHIND the US election hacking, but Putin has since suggested Russia might have been framed.... which indicates the bogus nature of that misdirection.
http://nypost.com/2017/02/01/russian-officials-charged-with-passing-secrets-to-us/
"Four Russian security officials were slapped Wednesday with formal charges of treason for passing secrets to the US government, according to published reports."
"Three of the defendants were identified as Federal Security Services (FSB) officials Sergei Mikhailov and Dmitry Dokuchayev, and Ruslan Stoyanov, a higher-up at the cybersecurity firm Kaspersky Labs, CBS News reported."
Uh huh...
I guess we're going to keep on hearing this 'birther' crap for the next four years at least.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Russians were tampering.
Trump was winning.
There was no correlation.
Discovering now that Russians were tampering proves this lack of correlation even further.
How?
Because in the case of collusion Trump either needs to ask them to interfere (they already were) or help them interfere.
Is someone now going to propose that Trump gave Putin Hillary's password? (12345)
There was no criminal activity from Trump team, but there is still a crap ton of criminal activity swirling around the Democrats.
And Comey needs to go to jail next to Reality Winner.
They can leak notes to one another.
How could this even be possible? By assuming that the option of a well-planned inside job can be dismissed, how could anyone have access to so delicate information from outside?! Through internet?! Why enabling internet access to something like this?
In any case, I guess that all these systems include a quite powerful logging sub-system recording each single modification; or even better: they don't allow modifications at all. So, even in the unrealistic scenario of anyone actually modifying voting information, I guess that reverting any change should be quite easy.
Clarification: I don't like Trump at all and might even be happy in case that he was proven to be somehow related to all this hacking theory. But I am also an honesty- and fairness-driven person who is completely against baseless accusations of any kind.
Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
Don't need to, a surprising number of voting machines in America do not use paper ballots
http://www.salon.com/2011/09/27/votinghack/
Tinfoil hat and crazy talk time
Well, they had a list of all employees with access to the vote tabulation equipment. they could have found a handful in each state that were both poor and hardcore trump supporters and offered them both money and a chance for their guy to win in exchange for plugging in this USB stick to some of the machines...
now do i think that actually happened? oh god no, the amount of time and planning that would take for something with a pretty high risk of failure would be totally insane, even for Putin (or Putey Put Put as W used to call him) but to offhandedly say "No way tampering was possible" seemed short sighted.
I mean, no offence to you, Trump and his folks were saying the vote was rigged leading up to the vote, some going so far as to say they would assassinate Clinton were she to be declared the winner as the election was bogus. I think saying "hey, maybe we should look into this a little more" is fairly tame by comparison.
Sounds like it's time for better security in the computerized part of the voting system. Even if the Russian government, as opposed to just individual hackers who might even be spoofing a Russian government IP address for reasons, really is behind this so what? It's not any kind of real attack. If you are advocating that we try to hack their own insecure internet-facing computer systems go for it. Would love to see someone other than Putin or a Putin clone get elected next time. I'm not even convinced this sort of thing should be a crime at all. More like relatively harmless play. Or we could move toward nuclear war with Russia if you want. Up to you.
I personally kind of like the Russkies. I have no problem with them. I think we should stick with staying on friendly and good diplomatic terms with them. I lived through the 80s and I find being friends with them a lot better than Duck and Cover drills. OTOH we all know how cool nuclear war would be. It would truly be 'interesting times'. Plus a lot of Beautiful People would die or at least suffer a reduced quality of life. So I'm cool with either option, but for most people I think the first option would be preferable.
I guess we do live in interesting times in a way. Democrats have become so much like Republicans now that they have become war mongers as long as it suits their agenda in other ways. Although I must admit I don't see how getting on a more cold war like footing with Russia again is going to hurt their arch-enemy Trump. Because Democratic presidents were known for chewing gum and kicking ass but running out of gum? I'm not seeing it. I'm just glad Trump himself is not taking the bait and transforming into Dr. Strangelove.
I can remember back in the 80s when most Democrats were supporters of the ACLU and even human rights. It used to be that Republicans wanted financial freedom (even for poor people in many cases) but government control of our personal lives and Democrats wanted personal freedoms (pro ACLU, pro drug etc) put wanted more government control of the economy (Robin Hood economics). Now both parties want government control of everything just in somewhat different ways, but this pro war stance on the part of the Democrats is something new.
But saber rattling over this is just dumb. You want to investigate Trump for being overly friendly with the Russians (not really a crime imo but whatever) fine, but escalating this into any sort of real conflict just because you want to demonize the Russians because Trump gets along with Putin is harmful to world peace and not really going to accomplish anything you want anyway.
Trump is president. I don't like it either but it doesn't really matter that much who is president. It's mostly business as usual no matter who is living in that big white building. So calm the fuck down people and wipe that drool and spittle from your rabid mouths. This could even be something positive if it helps to make our electronic voting systems more secure or if it starts to get people thinking about how stupid and antiquated our electoral college system is. Democracy is mostly about a wolf and some sheep deciding what's for dinner anyway. It's really individual/human rights that distinguishes us from totalitarian dictatorships. Or really the rights that the government doesn't have. Voting is mostly bread and circus to keep the common people believing they can make a difference.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
You mean like CNN, WaPo, NYT, etc. did?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
No.
It is however clear that the Plastic Doll didn't order Russia to hack herself. Not so clear about the Orange Wig. After all, the wig did state he would welcome criminal acts like that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Russian actions weren't able to modify votes cast.
You seem awfully confident of that. If there is one thing we know, its that e-voting machines are ridiculously insecure. And we've know it for over a decade.
What risk/reward ratio were they looking at?
Putin's singular goal is the elevation of the Russian state with him as its head. Because he's an autocrat that makes western liberalism an existential threat. Anything he can do to discredit western liberalism helps him - if he can convince enough people that american elections are rigged then he can say to his own citizens that real democracy doesn't exist, that the grass is not greener on the other side and so they should be content with his great leadership.
You don't hack the ballot, you use propaganda to influence voters.
You mean just like politicians do?
No.
Politicians lie.
The Russians leaked the truth.
Its not like the democrat party hacked/stole the nomination away from Bernie. The Democratic party is to blame for all this. If Hillary won nobody would be talking about Russians.
Quite right. I won't believe a word until it's on rt.com.
To be fair, Clinton did have an unsecured Exchange server hanging on the public Internet, and her lieutenant John Podesta fell for the world's dumbest phishing scam... I mean, c'mon.
To be fair, Podesta didn't fall for the phishing scam. He thought the email was suspicious so he asked a millennial on his staff who was supposedly his email expert about it. The young guy went into an immediate panic and insisted that the email was completely legit and Podesta needed to click on the link immediately. So he did. Nobody will name the staffer or say what happened to him. The guy who fell for the phishing scam was Podesta's trusted staffer who was supposed to know how to detect this kind of thing.
Most of the objections I've seen as to why Russian hacking couldn't work have been along the lines of "It would take a lot of effort" or "it would be too complicated". Given the available resources of Russia and the stakes in play I can't really say those objections hold any water. Without the ability to review the source code of all voting machines and randomized auditing of paper ballots there is simply too much potential for influence in a close race, which seems to be the de facto standard these days.
Here is the easy fix to avoid future possibilities of our elections being hacked in the future: keep voting off the internet.
Not unnamed sources, the FBI, CIA, NSA, House intelligence commitee, Senate intelligence committee have all confirmed it. You had Comey confirm it just the other day.
Various intelligence documents are there to be read, e.g. :
https://prod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2017/06/gru-chart-russia-hacking-election-1496684832.jpg
And Trump campaign manager Stone has confessed to his discussions with Guccifer 2.0 (he did it on Russia Today if you want to watch the episode).
http://www.businessinsider.com/roger-stone-dnc-hacker-guccifer-democratic-party-2017-3
"Screenshots of Stone's back-and-forth with Guccifer via Twitter direct messaging were first revealed by The Smoking Gun. Stone later shared them with Business Insider."
i.e. Stone, Trumps campaign manager, himself, confirmed the discussions. Not unnamed sources.
“Payload coming. #Lockthemup," Stone tweeted on October 5.... On October 7 WikiLeaks published the first batch of Podesta emails."
Guccifer 2.0 is a Russian Intelligence Cover, he's not the actual hacker, just an English speaking Russian operative.
https://medium.com/@thegrugq/evidence-guccifer-2-0-is-russian-intel-55f9f8b3f135
Totally agree. The only difference here is that Trump isn't a normal politician and may have some racist or at least anti-Muslim views and some more extreme ideas than usual. So far nothing has come of it and the rest of the system (house, senate, judicial) is all regular politicians. So it may end up like Obama wanting to close Gitmo but not being able to (assuming you believe he wanted to). Luckily a president is not quite a dictator. Not yet at least.
Note how the travel ban went nowhere and so far I haven't read about any Muslim internment camps or mass deportation of Muslim Americans. If Trump seriously tries to do any of that stuff then I'll start to seriously worry, but for now he's all bark and no bite. At least so far. It's kind of entertaining to see how the Dems are reacting. I've never seen this kind of rage or bile before. Not even the most Hilary hating conservative was ever this enraged. Nothing like hatred to unite people, eh?
In some ways the other side of the pond worries me more. Trump isn't advocating the end of encryption, human rights (except for Muslims of course), and uh the internet while she's at it. Hopefully the political system over there can prevent her from actually doing any of that extreme stuff. There's a lot of dangerous anti-Muslim talk over there too, but May is not nearly as much an islamophobe or xenophobe as Trump. Unfortunately they both tend to go in for overly simple solutions to complex problems, but then so do most politicians. The Philippines with their president's policy of Murder All Drug Dealers (and users) as a way to solve the drug problem there is my favorite illustration of this.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Let's not forget that Black Box Voting caught a Russian Hacker on video!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4-wQhtRiP8
Usual reason as to why not is because it would allow you to prove you voted for candidate XYZ, that can cause problems voter intimidation, vote selling and so on.
So, do not put voting systems online then.
And the truth was repugnant to many democratic supporters. Case closed. Speak plainly and consistently in public and private and this woukd never have been an issue. Organizationally screw over Bernie and risk his supporters losing faith if they find out.
Any time I see the word "unprecendented" I tune it out.
There must be some part of the journalist brain that involuntarily peppers headlines and articles with that word.
Seriously, the whole shit in the US smells more and more like the democracy theater they had in the Soviet states.
And that's why Obama's policies were exactly the same as Trump's?
I'm not going to berate you, but I think you're wrong.
Or actually, let me start with this: I think it's unfortunate that we have a two-party system. I think we should consider rethinking our elections in order to allow more parties to have more of a voice. I'd also agree that we should do something about campaign finance to restrict the undue influence held by the rich. So maybe we'd agree on that much.
However, we've certainly seen that there is a difference between Republicans and Democrats. If you look at the things Obama tried to do, and then you look a the things Trump has been trying to do, those are definitely different sets of things. What's more, I think a lot of the difficulty in promoting 3rd parties is actually the fault of the people. It's tribalism. Political parties are like sports teams, and which one you want to win isn't really about which one is best or which one is going to implement good policies. It's all identity politics, and part of the reason for that is it's what voters are choosing.
The voting machines are not internetworked. The attacks described here were not against voting equipment but against voter registration databases which have web interfaces.
I am an election official in Virginia. Every one of these scenarios I've looked at about how easy it is to modify voting equipment have thoroughly improbable -- and in some cases, physically impossible -- scenarios. America is physically a very big place. Virginia has thousands of individual voting precincts. To modify the source code, you'd have to launch a simultaneous, in-person sneak attack at thousands of locations, all without getting caught. That is just not a credible scenario. In some of these scenarios, they have people literally opening up a voting machine on election day, which is really preposterous. Every voting machine is under the constant gaze not only of multiple officers, but also all the voters waiting in line. That in-my-eyesight requirement is one of the reasons I am strongly in favor of in-person voting.
We have been running elections for hundreds of years, now. We do know a thing or two about how to secure them.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
and that is != hacking the election.
also you are crazy if you dont think we dont try and use propaganda to influence voters of other countries and vice versa.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
No, he was joking, based on the assumption that the Russians had previously hacked the DNC and several others associated with the Democratic party leadership and thus most likely Hillary's server as well (years before back when she was Sec state and running the unsecure server), and thus they would likely have hoovered up the 30,000 missing emails she had deleted after her term as Sec State ended. Thus he made a Joke (a non-serious statement designed to elicit laughter) about asking the Russians if they had the missing emails. It was a joke, in the context it was clearly a joke, and only an idiot bound an determined to make it something else would consider that off the cuff statement anything but a joke.
but keep trying to claim it was a serious statement.
I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
You know, we DO know about digital signing. And defense in depth. And chain of custody. And to top it all off, you can't just attack some of the machines, they are spread out in thousands of locations across each state. You have to win a majority of ALL the precincts.
So no, your scenario of just popping a USB drive into a couple of voting machines is not going to work. It's a lot, lot harder than you think.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
Like I said, it would be too hard to pull off and I don't think it happened. But should we not at least investigate?
I mean, isn't it odd in NC that enough people split the ballot to elect a Democratic Governor but not Clinton? I mean in a normal election I wouldn't find that very odd, but to vote Dem on one side and Trump on the other? That's a big swing. But hey, who knows? ... a lot of Bernie's Socialists suddenly became Libertarians which is the complete opposite of socialism...
How can you tell either way without an investigation?
You do realize that the biggest net gain for the Russians is the PR here right? They may not have changed even one vote cast, but all this consternation about how they "hacked" the election undermines the electorate's confidence in the process.
Putin is sitting back chuckling about how a little bit of hacking has placed his name and image in front of the world and inflated his image which increases his ability to stay in office.... Then, the gift that keeps on giving, pits Americans vrs Americans which only makes the USA weaker. Apart from achieving some military victory of the USA there is nothing better for him...
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
I'm all for secure, recountable paper ballots and IDs to have secure elections. Let's do it!
Amiright, Dems? What's that ... .no?
So you think we should just ignore all of the massive amount of evidence from a dizzying array of sources, many of them independent and professional with no stake in the political world, just because you think it's all a gigantic sour grapes excuse argument?
The person you responded to stated very clearly the same thing most of us who are not leftists/progressives have been saying. SHOW US SOME EVIDENCE! What we have is a report based on 3rd party paid for by the DNC claiming "Russia" hacked the DNC. The FBI requested access to the servers to run a Federal investigation and were REFUSED!
Anonymously source claims are not evidence! For all we know there could be one person responsible for every single anonymous source. Read the statements on the record by Comey, Clapper, Obama, etc.. etc.. who all stated that the Election was not tampered with. Not 1 vote was changed, and according to them not one vote was cast illegally. (and we just had 12 Democrats indited for voter fraud, link so we know that issues exist, but no evidence that a R or Trump did anything illegal). We were promised an investigation into fraud, and I'm hoping it's either underway or will still be completed.
The sources in TFA are all biased sources. I don't see anything new here, just the same old Stalinist tactics we have seen since last July from the Democratic party and MSM. If you want to sway my opinion, start producing facts.
Like many others, I don't fall for appeals to emotion, appeals to authority, or ad hominem. I study facts!
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
The only difference here is that Trump isn't a normal politician and may have some racist or at least anti-Muslim views
According to this CNN link , the six countries on the travel ban were Sudan, Libya, Iran, Yemen, Somalia, and Syria. All of them have either extremely poor security situations with rampant domestic terrorism and active insurgencies, or in Iran's case an extremely antagonistic relationship with the US government and Israel (which has major lobbying power in the US). These countries are 10% of the world Muslim population. They are also some of the most dangerous and active conflict zones in the world today, and possess training environments for the radicalization of second-generation immigrants in Europe to turn into terrorists.
You know what countries AREN'T on Trump's travel ban? Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, India, Nigeria, Turkey, and Egypt. Combined they are home to 56.7% of the world's Muslims, and while some of them have security problems and active jihadi insurgencies, they also have more robust security apparatuses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
So is Trump really anti-Muslim, or simply enacting pre-emptive security measures and risk avoidance?
In comparison, his erstwhile opponent in the Presidential race voted in favor of Operation Iraqi Freedom. The collapse of security in Iraq in 2003 is STILL costing Muslim lives to this day due to ISIS, which even a conservative estimate would place in the high hundreds of thousands of fatalities 2003-2017. This is also the same woman who **LAUGHED** about the overthrow and extra-judicial lynching of a Muslim head of state (Qaddafi). https://youtu.be/UtH7iv4ip1U
So I'm just curious if you also consider Hillary Clinton to be a racist anti-Muslim? Or is it just Trump?
as the Orange Clown didn't order it, it's all FINE right?
Not in the least, of course it matters.. However... WHY have we been accusing Trump of organizing this for literally MONTHS? He didn't have anything to do with this if you take what Comey says to be true. Seriously, why all the sputtering and spitting about collusion we've been hearing since before Trump took office?
However, I'd like to point out that we still haven't seen any evidence that "The Russians" managed to change the count of votes cast, only that they where trying to disrupt what they could.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Didn't Trump actually lose the election in terms of the popular vote? To you foreigners who blame us for voting Trump in we didn't really. The electors did. Not us. We voted in our own version of Theresa May.
If the Russians or someone pretending to be them (maybe it was Aaron Swartz and a team of his undead minions) managed to succeed in altering the results of the election what does this imply about Hillary winning the popular vote by a significant margin but losing in electoral votes? Is it possible that the hackers actually wanted to try to make sure that the unusually extreme Trump would lose? After all most hackers with the skill to pull off something like this are very unlikely to be Trump supporters.
It is unusual for the popular vote to be so much higher than the electoral vote. I mean maybe some electors were bribed to vote Trump, but otoh maybe the popular vote was just the only vote that was hackable. It would be ironic if it turns out that an investigation uncovers that votes were actually hacked in the other direction. That would seem to then imply that it wasn't Russians after all, but rather someone framing them. North Korea maybe?
If I were investigating the first thing I would do is look into the finances of the electors who voted for trump even though the popular vote was against him. The second thing I would do would be to try to figure out how many popular votes were changed and which direction they were changed in. Maybe Trump lost popular votes because some Libertarian hacker altered them to vote for the Libertarian candidate (yay!).
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
We're at the point where the government is so involved in everything that elections are nearly pointless. A lot of us will never find a candidate that truly represents us, or even comes close. There are huge divides within the existing two parties for that reason. Bringing more parties in the fold just makes it more challenging to find the least repugnant choice. We need to decrease the amount of federal government and return to the union of states that we're supposed to have. Government works best when it's local.
Why? Because Hillary couldn't handle losing to Trump.
Its one of the largest temper tantrums in history, from a woman who should any longer be respected by anyone at all....
Note that any voting system that uses networked registration has vulnerabilities, but the most resilient are those with paper ballots, automatic voter registration starting at 16, a DSS copy facing the Net, and optical scanners that are not networked.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
You can't tell the difference between a boring centrist and an idiot right wing traitor because you are fucking stupid.
Try not being such a fucking retard all the time and pay attention to what's happening in front of you, moron.
What the presumably Russian crackers were after was altering things like voting roles, resulting in voter suppression.
You know, *exactly* like the GOP has been doing with gerrymandering, and having people at the polls challenging voters' registration, and the mass dropping of folks from the voting roles.
One that sticks in my mind was a guy not allowed to vote because he was registered in another state. Note, he was whatisname, jr, and it was his *father* who was registered in another state.
And there is *no* national system to move registrations when you relocate. Who here has ever relocated, and written to their old state or commonwealth to let them know to remove them from the old voter roles?
Yes. The difference is corps, SIGs, talk radio jocks, co-workers, and private sector goons don't have a nuclear missiles pointed at you and your loved ones. I'd say they are all far less dangerous than a far right leaning country with a massive bone to pick with us and every reason to see us wiped out of existence.
Although we've never been in a shooting war with Russia/USSR (exception of early skirmish of US troops on Russian soil in parts of WWI, dogfights with Mig15s and F86s, shootdown of recon planes in 1950s plus U2 in 1960) I wonder as they say tensions are increasing even though Trump and his cronies are buddy buddies with Putin and his cronies. We scream about hacks and cyberwar, can we say things will get serious if Trump pulls ABM missiles and F22s out of Poland?
mfwright@batnet.com
While those are run by local parties in the US, there is still opportunity for an outside player to influence or interfere with them. When I went to the caucus this year I left knowing the result of my own precinct but nothing beyond that, and many people left without waiting to find out the result of their own precinct. Certainly the Russians knew early in the nomination process that Trump was by far the candidate most favorable to them; why would they not want to interfere at that point?
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
We're at the point where the government is so involved in everything that elections are nearly pointless.
I think it really depends on what you mean by "pointless". From the rest of your post, it really sounds like anything that doesn't give you exactly what you want is "pointless". I don't think that's a very fair assessment.
If you want the federal government to disband and form a confederacy instead, then you're right to think that neither Republicans or Democrats will bring you closer to that goal. However, if you think that the election won't have an impact on your life, or on the lives of your friends and family members, you're probably wrong.
Keeping votes secret while counting them in voting machines has been compared to providing secure DRM to publishers. Given any kind of determined attack it's almost impossible to secure. I don't think block-chain is going to help much with that.
Of course all of this is in a theoretical framework where machine manufacturers are probably open source, competent and actually care if their machines are secure. Realistically most of these guys would just put the block-chain in to look secure and then back door everything.
So I'm just curious if you also consider Hillary Clinton to be a racist anti-Muslim? Or is it just Trump?
Those aren't very compelling examples. Neither was at all directly related to religion. Hillary is probably as islamophobic as most Americans are, but not as much as Trump. Trump advocated blocking all Muslims from entering the US during his campaign. I guess it could be worse. He could have advocated putting the ones already in the US into camps or deporting them, but it's a pretty extreme measure that is presumably based on some pretty extreme view along the lines of Muslim = Terrorist.
the six countries on the travel ban were Sudan, Libya, Iran, Yemen, Somalia, and Syria. All of them have either extremely poor security situations with rampant domestic terrorism and active insurgencies, or in Iran's case an extremely antagonistic relationship with the US government and Israel (which has major lobbying power in the US).
Blocking entire countries because of a tiny tiny tiny minority of people living there is in itself tribalist and the sort of simplistic over-generalized thinking that racism is all about. The sheer magnitude of innocent people caught in that ginormous net is extremely unjust by any measure. That some Americans are terrified of a tiny minority of people from those countries wearing towels on their heads does not make it any more rational or just.
Is Trump the man really a racist and islamophobe as he is painted by the left? I don't really know because I don't personally know the guy, but some of the things he has said have justifiably scared people about what he might be capable of. When it comes to that he at least gives me pause. His policies certainly do tend at least toward xenophobia and isolationism. The actual 6 country version of the travel ban is just a small taste of what he might be capable of. After all he did originally advocate blocking everyone who believes in a particular religion from entering the country.
What some people find confusing I think is that while terrorists are usually Muslims or at least Arabs, Muslims are not usually terrorists and actually neither are Arabs. Actual terrorists are almost as rare as aliens. They may as well not exist at all and we should really treat them as if they don't because attention is what they are looking for. All of this fear just encourages them and shows them what cowards we really are.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
In case you missed it, Trump is the man who said he wanted, a, "total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States". I'll point out that he didn't say, "I want a total and complete shutdown of citizens from the following countries with poor security situations entering the United States...." Had he said that, it wouldn't have been blatantly anti-Muslim. And this is also a man who said he wanted to shut down mosques.
FFS, the courts are using his own anti-Muslim tweets and speech snippets to kill his Muslim ban.
How in the world do you manage to hate Hillary so much and love Trump so much that you conflate the two on their attitudes towards Muslims? As soon as Hillary makes some anti-Muslim tweets and suggests policies to ban them and shut down mosques, they'll be equal. I'm somewhat skeptical that that will happen.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
They said it was supposed to be a temporary measure for 100 days to get a handle on things and establish a tougher vetting process.
It has been more than a hundred days and no new vetting process has been announced.
Or actually, let me start with this: I think it's unfortunate that we have a two-party system. I think we should consider rethinking our elections in order to allow more parties to have more of a voice.
It won't matter. The government is going to be a reflection of the populace. As long as the populace is focused on stupidities instead of real issues, then no system of elections or campaign finance reform will fix that.
IF you want to improve government, focus on educating the populace. It's hard, but at least it will have an effect.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Russia must have decided that Obama was a big enough blow to the US that there was no reason to hack his elections...
Herd mentality and naive twats like you that believe this proven bullshit( the Russians did it... ) are what can topple the "sovereignty" of nations
Why the hell are non-citizens who are not currently on US soil afforded protections of the Constitution? Why do they even matter?
The burning question not even Preparation H can handle is who is "Anonymous Source"? Where does Xe live? What does Xe eat for breakfast?
At what point will Anonymous Source release the logs to show how these Russian Rapscallions penetrated so deep into the Servers and minds of these great lands. When does Anonymous Source release all the nefarious details of these exploits so that we can have justice and remove the Pretender Trump and his cabal of Crypto Russians.
Everything I have read indicates Putin (obviously an Anti-Christ) personally used his mercenary hordes of Russian Hackers (I'm looking at you 4Chan) to corrupt the media and hack the minds of the American voters in favor of Trump the pretender. Now, obviously, this is no easy task so there is plenty of evidence. We have voting machine logs, we have router logs, we have firewall logs and DNC server logs. Anonymous Source your people need you. Please release the evidence.
Reply to This
As a European I think it would be naive, or just arrogant, to think that whatever information a government agency has in some matter isn't tainted by errors, flaws, or things one could label "false flag".
Ofc, the country known as United States of America has no credibility with me, making it too easy to frown on all the accusations I am reading about interference in a country's election process, because the country is just not interested in holding a moral high ground, and it probably never was. Simply subscribing to certain ideas of morality, doesn't make you 'moral', and so the things you do reflect poorly on you when you behave badly as a country.
And I bet you would have talked about how Obama was trying to wreck the election if he had come out and said that we just don't know what or how much tampering was done!
Not control per se but pervasive: https://m.slashdot.org/story/318389
It's funny, I can imagine this thread happening on a forum for Iranian nuclear scientists a few years back.
"Impossible! they would have to have access to all the centrifuges! and they are all air-gapped!"
I'm sure you're knowledge of security is top notch, is it unassailable? is it possible something could have happened you didn't foresee? should we not even look into it? that seems like a stupid way to look at the issue. It's already clear the Russian government was trying everything possible to get their man in office, why not look into any possibility? Other than the fact you are personally happy with the result and want to leave it alone.
Whether this is true or not, it has littled-to-nothing to do with my point. Which is that major newspapers and TV-channels do try their worst to sabotage him. Your attempts to change subject from that to Trump's own actions are just that — attempts to change subject.
Now, we may disagree on judging such sabotage — whether it is commendable or despicable for these guys to slow down the President's fulfilling his promises — but you can not deny the fact of it.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Also not on the Travel ban: Saudi Arabia. You, know, the country from which most of the 9/11 attackers came.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
If the Russians really did do all of this hacking to influence the election (no evidence has been shown), how do we know they were helping Trump? Remember how Trump was saying the election was "fixed" and Obama and Clinton were saying that it wasn't and that Trump should just accept the results? But then Trump won and Clinton and Obama changed their tune and said the Russians were hacking the election to help Trump.
I suspect that there was some sort of Russian hacking going on, just like always. But they were trying to influence the election in favor of the Dems. If Clinton had won, all of the Russian hacking stories would never have appeared on CNN. But since she lost, the Dems are now trying to sway public opinion by repeating the mantra "The Russians Did It". This is all to firmly plant the idea in enough people's minds, so that if the truth ever does come out, very few people will believe it.
But with our first-past-the-post, winner takes all, electoral college system, you wouldn't have to alter very many individual precinct or county vote tallies to help sway a close election, if you chose the right ones.
You know, we DO know about digital signing. And defense in depth. And chain of custody.
I'm interested in your ideas. Please tell me how I can digitally sign my ballot, and how we manage the chain of custody as it either sits overnight in the ballot drop-box or passes through the USPS system.
You have to win a majority of ALL the precincts.
In our local Senate district, it is quite common for the Republican candidate to win in a majority of the counties, yet a Democrat goes to Washington because he won the county with the big city in it. Of all the elections I know, none except the US Presidential election does anything more than summing all the votes for all the political subdivisions and the plurality takes all.
At least the politicians in the U.S. are part of the U.S... Foreign interference is quite different.
I only pray that for every step they make to create more lies about Russia, that Putin makes it even harder for them to pollute agenda 2030 into Russia. Putin should reinforce the border and lock out big pharma companies from in any form from any country 3-fold for every time these lies are made up.
Story explaining it.
Comey, under oath, said no federal agency looked at the DNC servers. It was looked at by CrowdStrike, paid by the DNC to claim Russia hacked the servers. Since Muller has been appointed, and lying under oath is likely to get jail time, CrowdStrike is no longer willing to say Russia hacked the DNC servers.
So you have exactly ZERO people on this planet willing to say Russia hacked the DNC servers. Think about that, not a SINGLE person is willing to say what you claim while under oath.
Why are you making things up? And then you attack people for pointing out your lies? Maybe its you who is denying the facts, seeing as now you have been shown them and haven't been able to show a single thing to support your claims. Truth-denier
Can you spell out your own critical thinking process from start to end on this because I'm interested but don't know what exactly is the deception here and where to begin
Yes, thankyou for pointing that out. I should have included a blurb about Saudi Arabia, which, like Israel, has HUGE lobbying power in DC even though the Saudis deserve to be front and center on our shitlist.
...
And yet Trump touts that his travel ban IS a ban on muslims. That greatly increases his chances of losing in court, which, I think he realizes, would be helpful to him with his base, since he could then claim loudly and repeatedly how the unfair, "liberal" courts are preventing him from keeping America safe.
Trump won by fewer than 75,000 votes.
I think you missed my point.
The omission of Saudi Arabia shows that the ban is unconnected to security issues, which refutes your main point.
What remains is a ban on Muslims who don't come from countries where Trump has current or hopes for future business interests.
Trump openly expressed his desire for a Muslim ban. We should take him at his word.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
And let's not forget that the first version of the ban wasn't a ban on citizens of those countries travelling to the USA: it was a ban on Muslims from those countries travelling to the USA.
Also, Trump wants the Justice department to defend the original, explicit, Muslim ban in court.
So, yeah, anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together can see that it's a Muslim ban.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
The most INTERESTING part of this is that it admits that Obama had a 'back channel' to Moscow/the Russians. Something the press tore the Trump Administration up for trying to set up via Kushner. Yet another demonstration that if 'done by Trump' = 'BAD'(TM), done by Obama (or any other President) = 'GOOD'(TM).
And no, this shouldn't matter what the collective 'pipe dreams' are in respect to any conspiracy theories of 'collusion' may be. Back channels have been in place in all administrations for like 'ever'. Trying to paint Trump's attempt to set one up as anything other than 'normal procedure' demonstrates the left's total cognitive dissonance.
I have close friends here who are Iranian Shia expats, been here for decades. Ya know what's funny? The wife of the family often talks politics with me and says "Why is everyone so mad at Trump? Of course you should ban those people from your country. They're dangerous!" Middle-aged Muslim woman says its not smart to allow Muslim refugees into America. That's a headline you'll never see on CNN. Now besides the obvious irony of someone who fled the Iranian Revolution* complaining about present-day refugees, this married couple is upper class and extremely well-educated (usually a requirement for long-term residence in Japan). Do we have any easy, reliable means for verifying the education, background, or criminal history of refugees from the 6 Travel Ban countries? Highly unlikely. They are practically failed states.
*Some of her uncles were Generals in the Shah's Army....all "disappeared".
The sheer magnitude of innocent people caught in that ginormous net is extremely unjust by any measure. That some Americans are terrified of a tiny minority of people from those countries wearing towels on their heads does not make it any more rational or just.
The United States is not under any international or domestic legal obligation to allow travelers or immigrants from elsewhere. We have that right as a sovereign nation to control our borders. As for "innocent people" and "unjust"......How's that White Man's Burden working out for you? Do we elect our public officials to do what is in the best interests of American citizens, or the best interests of foreigners? The two are often not overlapping on a Venn diagram.
That some Americans are terrified of a tiny minority of people from those countries wearing towels on their heads does not make it any more rational or just.
How tiny is the tiny minority? Is it 1% of Muslims? That's 18 million jihadis. Even if it were 1% of the 6 Travel Ban countries, that's 1.8 million jihadis. If we add those 1.8 million to the US population of ~326 million, they would be about 0.5% of Americans. Would you still shop at Wal-Mart if 1 out of every 200 customers was just waiting for the best time to blow himself up at the checkout line? Are you willing to accept that risk? For what purpose? What do we really lose by saying "You know what, I think we're just NOT going to let you guys come here until you get your shit straight." What are the second- and third-order effects of increasingly frequent terror attacks attributable to radical Islam? Effects on the economy? Effects on overall quality of life from the inevitable security theater?
Thing is, it's NOT a "tiny minority". Check out the data from the Pew Research Center: 2014 study. Look how many are at least kinda-sorta ok with the idea of using suicide bombings against CIVILIANS. Bangladesh? 47%. Turkey? 18%. Egypt? 24%. That means those 3 countries alone have 100 MILLION Muslims who think it's okay to blow up women and children in defense of Islam. Is that your idea of a "tiny minority"? Let's also throw in the 25% of American Muslims who agree with them: http://www.reuters.com/article...
Ya know if we were really smart....we would filter a Muslim ban by allowing women 16-30 a fast track to immigration. Women are usually politically radicalized by th
The evidence will be presented when the certainty for success is highest. You don't want any evidence any way. You just want to bitch. Any thing we presented as evidence would be hand waved away. We could show you a video of dude point blank shooting someone in the head and you would scream it's fake. We're figuring out your republican bullshit and we're changing the game. Suck it, deplorable.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men . . .
All this hooplah isn't about Russians hacking the election - influencing the voters. The point being missed is that _if_ the Russians hacked and released facts about a candidate that the voters disliked enough to change their vote for another candidate, it means that that the "hacked" candidate was simply exposed for what they really are. If the accusers are right then Russia didn't "make up" the facts - just made them visible to all. Kinda like wikileaks. The deceit of hiding facts that voters would not support is the true "hacking the election". Now the lamestream media - they do make up the "facts". Where's that outrage?
Notice "the Goddamned Russians" isn't on that fucking list...
>implying a white man who owned so-called people didn't write that about other white men
Honestly the dude is his own worst enemy. He puts his foot in his mouth on a seemingly daily basis and I think his staff spends as much time putting out helmet fires that HE creates as they do fighting with the Deep State shadow government and actually attempting to run the country.
What remains is a ban on Muslims who don't come from countries where Trump has current or hopes for future business interests.
Ok, I can kinda agree with you on that one. I have a real problem with the US-Saudi Petrodollar relationship. The memes for this pic practically write themselves: ( http://media.philly.com/images... ). But a real-estate guy like Trump should see that KBR-style reconstruction contracts in Libya at least could be a big business opportunity. So maybe he's asleep at the wheel on security AND business?
And let's not forget that the first version of the ban wasn't a ban on citizens of those countries travelling to the USA: it was a ban on Muslims from those countries travelling to the USA.
If that's the case.....yeah it's kinda stupid. Anyone can claim that they've converted to some other religion and there isn't really any way to verify it with their home country one way or the other. A guy named Achmed the Not-Yet Dead Terrorist could carry a King James Bible and say he found Jesus on the flight and wanted to get baptized. "Oh ok, not a Muslim. Step right through." Security theater.
And that's why Russia launched the campaign in the first place. Undermine trust in the political system and cause internal instability. It's worked beautifully. That doesn't mean we shouldn't investigate and work to secure the election process. We should have started that 15 - 20 years ago, really, when we started bringing out electronic voting. We have been talking about it on Slashdot for well over a decade.
Podesta did not just fall prey to a simple scam. He forwarded the email to an IT staff member who accidentally text-replied "it is authentic" when he meant to send the message "it is NOT authentic."
Nothing at all like arguing climate science. The majority of people agree that pollution is a problem, but disagree that taxing a populace (US) and redistributing their wealth will fix anything.
In the "Russia" investigation, it is well known that Russia hacks and attempts to hack the US. Just like China does to the US and Russia, the US does to Russia and China, etc... The specific allegation is that Russia "changed" the outcome of the election and stole it from Clinton. That allegation is where facts are lacking, and all we have are "anonymous" reports and innuendo/allegation. That is a very serious charge not to have facts.
Get off your high horse. I have worked in IT Security for 3 decades. I
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
A radio program interviewed one of the people who did the vetting, and guess what? They do have sufficient information to vet the people from Syria quite well, despite the lack of a functioning government. In fact, they can vet people from Syria better than many countries.
As for Pakistan: do you really think that we get truthful information from the Pakistani government? If you believe this, then I may have a bridge or some prime Florida real estate to sell you.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Sure, we need to protect ourselves from such efforts by the Russians (or any other group who wants to try this)....
But.. Do we need to compound the electorates' doubts by hoisting up unfounded accusations of criminal activity by one of the campaigns as if they where all true? Truly, all the trumped up (pun intended) charges about all this only serve to further the Russian's gains and multiply the results of their efforts.
Personally, I would have preferred that we concentrated in on the REAL issue (The Russians activities) and let all the rest of the political based accusations which have no basis just go away. It should NEVER had been blown up into what it's become over the last 9 months and letting it happen has only served to further aid the Russians in their gains.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
What Trump promised was a Muslim ban, which is exactly what his tribalist base wants. The text of the order was a (piss-poor) attempt to deliver on that in a (maybe) legal way, per the man's own words. Any other reading of the situation requires you to let someone pull the wool over your eyes.
Regarding the effect of the ban itself, it's even worse security theater than the TSA. It could be 6 countries, or 13 countries, or we could ban international travel altogether, and it wouldn't help. A bit of critical thinking while examining the backgrounds of those committing the attacks would tell you this. Or, you could take the word of the intelligence agencies (any, take your pick), who have concluded that nationality is not a reliable threat indicator. Unlike the TSA, however, the travel ban wastes more than money, time, and freedom. It wastes our country's standing and credibility.
What Hillary thinks isn't relevant to any of this.
I knew this would happen. The problem is voting machines.
To be frank, I thought it would happen FAR earlier. I thought Mitt Romney would end up president. I warned people THEN... you give machines the vote, and they'll elect a friggin' robot!
Found the politician!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
that will make it more true, just like the bible. hammer it in till it's accepted.
You do not have to speculate. Look at Australia. All properly scrutineered. And with a more complex multi vote system as well.
Cost is about US$4/vote to run the entire election, including the count. Much less than the computerized systems.
There is a reason that the US loves voting machines. And it is not cost. It is the fact that they CAN be hacked.
Or, you could take the word of the intelligence agencies (any, take your pick), who have concluded that nationality is not a reliable threat indicator.
Citation needed. DuckDuckGo is only giving me an article about a draft internal report by the DHS: https://www.bostonglobe.com/ne...
It wastes our country's standing and credibility.
With whom, exactly? Three of the five BRICS have their own Muslim insurgency problems, and two of those three are ruthlessly pragmatic authoritarian regimes who don't really like us anyway. Of the remaining 2 BRICS, Brazil is too occupied with Presidential corruption woes of their own and a shaky economy. Out in Asia, our friends in Korea and Japan are xenophobic assholes, and down in the Philippines Duterte is struggling with his own Muslim insurgency that is flaring up. Duterte, who is busy moving into Russia and China's sphere and has been reducing ties with the US. Yeah, we're really gonna win him over by being nice to Muslims. The Israelis and Saudis have got us by the short hairs regardless. The most populous country in Africa, Nigeria, is....also trying to put down a brutal Muslim insurgency (seeing a trend here?) So who are we losing standing with? South Africa, and the Europeans? Those brilliant folks who have opened the floodgates to their own cultural instability and possible demise? The Turks might accomplish with starving civilians (interesting how they don't seem eager to shelter their fellow Muslims) what they couldn't accomplish over hundreds of years of invasions: https://counterjihadreport.com...
As in, actually do.
I'm not proposing we disband the feds, I'm proposing that we restrict them to the powers granted by the Constitution and stop them from always doing an end-run around those limits by taxing us and only giving some of the money back to our states if they comply to demands that the feds have no authority to demand. The minimum drinking age being tied to highway funds is the first example that comes to mind. The feds have no authority to set a minimum drinking age, but they found a way. It's a perversion of the government we're supposed to have.
As for "exactly what I want", the problem is that the feds are into so much, you're going to have to prioritize your vote based on a small number of issues. That's not great representation.
The US election system cant be "hacked" to show different results by "computers" at a federal or final state level.
State workers and party officials would notice at a city and state level. Their counted numbers would not match.
Russia would have to fly in staff that the FBI would notice.
Russian staff would have to drive and fly out to many different US cities and get election jobs.
The new Russian staff would have to work next to all the existing US staff on site and try and alter "votes" before they are counted?
The FBI would notice the influx of new workers and quick staff changes would be reported.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Seriously - any competent sysadmin who reads Slashdot knows "These systems should not have any kind of networked access. None."
Yet... somehow it happens. Goddammit we suck.
I see my shadow changing, stretching up and over me...
Neither. You're the racist here.
Trump won. GET OVER IT! He's driving this shit shuttle now. Instead of whining, how about you grab those boot straps (like you tell us on a regular basis), cinch them up real tight and fix the problem if you think you republitards are so goddamned smart. Problem is, you aren't, and there's no way you can fix shit. All you know is bomb the fuck out of it.
Humans get human rights regardless of where they were born. Even a sentient non-human would get them.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
But the vote WHERE changed. It changed how people voted. They did not hack the voting system. They hacked the voters. I am old enough to know that the most important part of hacking is social engineering.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
So... In a country blessed with a first amendment.... How's this an issue we can fix?
You may not like it, but freedom of speech is a given around these parts. Granted it's got good and bad parts, but over all it's not something we want to try and abridge... Right?
So how do you propose we keep the Russians from doing this kind of thing? I'm not sure we have much leverage on that. We can secure our voting systems, tighten our controls on who gets to vote where and keep the results untainted, but I don't think we can control the media or the internet. Perhaps we could tighten up the libel protections for public figures, but I don't think even that wouldn't run crosswise to the 1st amendment.
Personally, I think an educated and well informed electorate is your best defense from such outside influences.... However, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink...
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
It's not the responsibility of the USA to take care of everyone.
This dead horse has been flogged so badly it must have been leaked by Disney.
Can't believe this right wing malarkey even gets shared as a news story...
The State of Georgia and 9 other States caught the DHS attempting to hack the elections NOT THE RUSSIANS.
The State of Georgia produced clear evidence that it was the DHS and the DHS acknowldged that an attempt was made from their network. I have read every report on the Russian hacks and there is NO EVIDENCE to support any of this smoke and mirror propaganda.
I worry more about our own government and worry about the Russians. Yes we are under attack by our own government.
It isn't about takiing care of anyone, AC. It's about treating everyone as if they are the same species, which they are. It's just logic. And fairness.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Different places have different voting systems. I'm happy that Virginia's voting is pretty secure (so is ours in Minnesota), but some places still use easily hackable machines.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
We know a lot more about security than some voting machines use, yes. However, given that the precinct totals are summed, it isn't necessary to hack all the voting machines to change the results of a close election.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
In 2003, lots of people were convinced that Iraq had nuclear and chemical weapons, and was on the verge of using them, because that was the bulk of the information available, and one reason for that was that the Bush administration was controlling much of the information to set up an attack. Some intelligent and informed people I know thought that the invasion was necessary. Given the bad information going around, I'm not blaming any member of Congress for voting for the invasion of Iraq. I blame the Bush administration for setting up the misleading information and for botching the occupation.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
The eternal cry of the Trump supporter: "He was just joking!" whenever he says something embarrassing. Apparently, there's no way to tell whether he was serious or not when he said something.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
That said, I think there is a lack of imagination when it comes to these things. Why couldn't source code be modified long before the election, and then activated through updates or maintenance? How many precincts would need to be compromised to throw a close election? How many highly positioned people would need to be compromised at the Department of Elections to influence counts? What would it take to actually trigger a recount?
Yes, elections are hundreds of years old, but there have been fraudulent elections for just as long.
Can we just charge her with violations of the espionage act just like anyone else would be and have a regular trial? Otherwise we'll be hearing about this crap forever. Just like anyone else, if she's guilty put her in jail. If not, then STFU. Just like anyone else.
The real story here is Obama used a "back channel" to talk to Russia and asked them to knock it off. So not even Obama trusted his own people. Even so, he knew about it and still failed to protect us, and he was in charge. Not Trump. So why blame trump? That should be what we are upset about. Not this bullshit narrative that Trump somehow colluded with them. We know he didn't. They knew it then and pushed that BS on us anyway.
And let's not forget that the first version of the ban wasn't a ban on citizens of those countries travelling to the USA: it was a ban on Muslims from those countries travelling to the USA.
If that's the case.....yeah it's kinda stupid.
But since that wasn't the case, it is irrelevant. The OP lied. The ban was on immigrants and non-immigrants from those countries, period. It's pretty easy to find a copy of the original order. For example, here it is in its entirety. Section 3(c) is the relevant part. If I could copy it out of the EO under evince I would paste it here. It says nothing about Islam, Muslim, or religion in any way. The ban is based on the country of origin.
Europeans who have a direct vote to elect "Presidents" (hand counted) consider the usefulness of an electorial college a slightly bad thing now travel and communication are so easy.
The USA electorial college is somewhat similar to the UK system where the majority party is allowed to nominate its leader for Prime Minister, which usually happens. However there is an overriding vote in that the Queen (of the Commonwealth [note 1] does not need to accept or offer to that noninated person). (Note 1) Once during her reign she had in conjunction with her appointed representative in one Commonwealth country, removed the 'in place Prime Minister" (but with stalemate budget/parliament problem) and replaced her/him with another, so that parliament could continue and government budget could work. This is the Sovereign's reserve power against the 'major party electorial college'. not working correctly.
Regards Eion MacDonald
Bottom Line is that there was NO evidence that any vote was changed. Good enough for me.
Khum, khum... Are there any credible proves we can SEE somewhere besides "we are confident that..."?
This russian collusion is all a bunch on nonsense. They are just trying to stall trumps agenda by having this garbage on the news every night
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