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11 States Sue Trump Administration's Energy Department After Weeks of No Movement On Efficiency Standards (go.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from ABC News: New York, California and nine other states sued the Trump administration Tuesday over its failure to finalize energy-use limits for portable air conditioners and other products. The new standards would reduce greenhouse gas emissions, save businesses and consumers billions of dollars, and conserve enough energy to power more than 19 million households for a year, but the U.S. Department of Energy has not met a requirement to publish them by now, according to attorneys general who filed the lawsuit (PDF) against the DOE in federal court in San Francisco. That means the standards are not legally enforceable. The other states in the lawsuit are: Connecticut, Illinois, Maine, Vermont, Washington, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Oregon and Maryland. The City of New York is also a plaintiff. The energy efficiency standards at issue in the lawsuit also cover walk-in coolers and freezers, air compressors, commercial packaged boilers and uninterruptible power supplies. There is currently no federal energy standard for air compressors, uninterruptible power supplies or portable air conditioners, according to the lawsuit. The lawsuit seeks a court order requiring the DOE to publish the new standards as final rules.
I've been planning on getting an air compressor. I'll speed that up now that I know the feds are planning to ruin them.
Good. The existing program is useless. Maybe they can do something more useful with the money, time and effort than try and have the Federal government dictate what energy use standards should be.
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
After all, he claims that never has there been an administration that has gotten so much done. So much. Except for this.
catchup: looney
That's just bone-headed. If you want to manufacture a new energy-efficient whatzit, go right ahead. No one's stopping you.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
Yo fat momma
Connecticut, Illinois, Maine, Vermont, Washington, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Oregon and Maryland.
This is right from the alinsky playbook, and was reported as their strategy ack in November. Raise fake criminal charges, then file massive amounts of frivolous suits
and the Tragedy of the Commons would like to respectfully disagree.
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So it saves enough energy to run 19 million households for a year... And then what happens? These fucking reporters don't know the difference between power and energy. This is fucking high school physics...
Since this is Rick Perry, well known here in Texas for basically doing nothing, this is no surprise. Perry also could not remember that this was a dep't he wanted to get rid. He later demonstrated that in fact, he had no idea what the thing did.
I guess all other the problems are solved in NY, and CA!
Whoopee!!!
Good use of my tax dollars!
After learning some history of modern civilization I've seen the danger of an overly powerful central government. What does this have to do with energy efficiency standards? The states are handing over their authority to a central government is helping to create an entity with enough power to do terrible things and only a very bloody war can stop it.
You want efficiency standards on consumer items? Publish and enforce them yourself. You want more windmill subsidies? Do it yourself. You want more highway funds? Raise them yourself.
What we see with states pushing such things on the federal government they won't see people leave the state over high taxes, or vote state officials out of office. Since it's more difficult to leave the country than leave a state so then by enacting a tax, fee, or regulation on a federal level the states can raise taxes, reap the rewards, and blame someone else for doing it.
Here's the deal though, the federal government officials also know that unpopular policies can get people voted out of office. Suing them for this stuff won't change that, people still vote. So the people in the federal government don't want this either.
Here's what state can do to make things better for themselves and the environment, take back some of the authority the federal government usurped from the state. Tell the federal government to take a hike and go license nuclear reactors yourself, that will clean the air more than anything else. Tell them you will manage your own wildlife in spite of how its listed on the endangered species list. Tell them you'll regulate carbon emissions, sulfur in diesel, CFC releases, waterways, and on and on.
It's not like the states haven't done this before. It seems to have worked for marijuana. It also seems to have worked to end alcohol prohibition, slavery, prohibition on women voting, and on and on. If enough states do it first and the federal government will have to follow. The federal government is a construct of the states, it has only the authority that the states have granted it. Take it back. Not only will states asserting their authority over the federal government mean more freedom for all it can also mean averting a very bloody war in the future.
The states won't do it though. Not unless it means more tax revenue like marijuana legalization did. There's no revenue in telling people that they can't buy stuff so they throw a fit in the hope to find enough judges that think they can pass laws from the bench. That's another rant too, for another time.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Seems the Trump administration is doing the right thing. To answer the lawsuit they could simply lowball the standards.
But the right thing would be for the Republican Congress to get off it's butt and repeal the laws that mandate these useless standards. Instead let the free market drive people to cost-efficient solutions.
Nonexistent Lawsuit!
The "standards" were executed by Obama Executive Order. The Obama Executive Order, among others, was voided 21 January 2017.
No standards.
No Lawsuit!
Chump change to the Magnificent 11 + 1 (New York City).
Hilarious. The GOP controls the Presidency, the House, the Senate, and has a Supreme Court stacked in their favor... Yet all they can do is blame the Democrats. How about using your party's monopoly of government to actually accomplish something, instead of whining all the time?
So they can take advantage of the famously wrong and liberal 9th circuit court of appeals?
No problem, these standards, guidelines, regulations etc are then either rescinded and if that's not possibly then they are whatever they were in 1979. And if I can't get that, I'll make them sue every step of the way to nowhere.
I can get that done for you, Mr. President, put me in charge of the agency. Unlike you I can't say I can do it for free, but at the end if the federal GS payscale whatever it is, is fine. I wish I could do it for free.
LOLOLOL how does it feel you alt right fucktard?
Remember when Obama was in office and the republicants kept stonewalling everything he wanted to do???????
Ohhhh member that time the government shut down because they couldn't agree on a budget? because I do.
Instead of implementing these standards at the state level and taking responsibility for the consequences - they want the Federal government to impose these standards and ALL states so they can simply pass the blame on to the Federal government.
These states know if they implement these standards within their borders they will suffer economic consequences - so they want all states to suffer equally at the hands of the Federal government.
Progdot news for progressive. Fake News that matters....
No one else gives a crap!
We had an election and the candidate who wanted to stop this socialist madness won. Elections have consequences socialists
Ok, I see "save businesses and consumers billions of dollars", so everybody wins, nobody loses, right? So why exactly does this need to be legislated? If the business making the product saves billions, the consumers save billions, why do you have to enforce this profit making by all with laws? Even if the manufacturer doesn't save billions, why wouldn't consumers choose to buy the product that will net cost less? Or is it "it will save consumers billions, but cost them few more billions?".
If there's one thing I've learned in my 25 years in the software business, it's that common standards are better than mutually incompatible competing "standards".
It really doesn't matter who does it, as long as it happens.
I know, it's hard to RTFA, but let's be clear on what's happening here.
The DoE is legally required to have published the standards by now. It hasn't done so. This is not "pass[ing] laws from the bench". This enforcing laws already passed by the legislature.
If you don't like this, campaign to get the law changed. Be angry all you like, but be angry at the right target.
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No business wants to try to satisfy 50+ (DC, territories, etc). different standards. Things like this make far more sense to do en mass by the federal government.
The anti-reg people dream of a simpler, STUPIDER society. Back when we didn't know the dangers of tobacco, it made zero sense to regulate them. As we learned new things, we figured out the safe way to do things and this caused us to require regulation.
The huge complexities of these regulations are further proof that we NEED regulations, not a reason to get rid of them. They are not complex because of bribery, but because the issues are complex. Smart, competent, and honest businessmen can't be expected to set up their business properly without guidance, let alone stupid, incompetent, dishonest ones (and let me assure you those do exist).
The problem is not government regulation, but instead the HUGE amount of knowledge you need to do these things safely, and claim efficiency.
Ohh do you remember the time they changed the filibuster rules to have a healthcare bill pass by simple majority, call it not a spending bill so it could originate in the Senate, then have the Supreme Court declare it a tax so the IRS could fine you?
The thing that beats top-down govermnent-enforced standards (often created by lobbyists for companies who prefer using govt rules to beat competitors rather than actually competing) is FREEDOM. With freedom, there are no corrupt regulations assisting established and politically-connected companies. As a substitute, you have free market competition that allows the individual to buy energy-sipping devices if he prefers, or energy hogs if he prefers, or some sipping devices to offset a hog he really wants. With freedom, each person, who is unique and has unique needs and preferences, is enabled to be happiest and most efficient.
Government regulations/standards treat all average citizens as interchangeable cogs in themachine of society, while ALWAYS providing the rich-and-powerful with ways to evade the pain. If aregulation akes all consumer air conditioners weak and ineffective, you can be certain tbere will be an exception for big industrial/commercial units... and all the rich and powerful will be able to afford those industrial units...
Government shutdowns are an unfunny joke. Employees get a paid vacation, and only a select few government services are actually cut - those services chosen to make the most people angry. It's a farce designed to apply political pressure; noisy fools scaring cowardly politicians.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Obama executive orders are NOT law, get over it. The states have no standing because what they are arguing is NOT US law, it is just what Obama declared.
You want efficiency standards on consumer items? Publish and enforce them yourself.
Let's say your a small company, doing will in the local scene and want to expand to neighboring states. It's not so fun to learn that they would have different standards which make your product illegal. It works a lot better for common markets to have the same standards.
Energy efficiency standards are an interstate problem, because pollution is an interstate problem. Money may flow into the state with the least regulation, but pollution will certainly seep out.
Also, slavery was not eliminated by letting the states do what they want, actually a very strong central government had to do that.
What modern civilizations were you studying?
Democrats are the party of obstruction, and more than half of the GOP wants Trump to fail. Don't worry, it'll get much worse once Civil War breaks out. Fuck it, let it begin! Bring it on!
My air compressor doesn't have to interoperate with yours. The efficiency of my window air conditioner does not affect the efficiency of yours. Analogies to software standards of interoperability are laughably irrelevant.
Yeah, but if the company has to make one AC unit for my state, and a slightly different one for your state, that will surely make them cheaper, right? Asshole.
My high school history textbook doesn't have to interoperate with yours, either, but for some reason most publishers are only producing ones that satisfy the needs of Texas politicians as opposed to actual history education.
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Yeah, but if the company has to make one AC unit for my state, and a slightly different one for your state, that will surely make them cheaper, right? Asshole.
Hey Asshole (I assume from your reply to the OP that that's the traditional greeting in your culture), most people will buy the refrigerator or A/C unit that has the best balance between initial up-front cost and what it costs on average to run it, adjusted for their individual minimal needs. That's because most people have to watch their energy costs plus they don't have a lot of money to buy the top models.
If you increase costs enough with regulations, guess what happens? People will keep on maintaining their old, inefficient systems and/or buy used/refurbished old, inefficient systems, making much of the whole point of the exercise moot. Clamp down on people doing that and you'll create a(nother) black market.
Let's say your a small company, doing will in the local scene and want to expand to neighboring states. It's not so fun to learn that they would have different standards which make your product illegal. It works a lot better for common markets to have the same standards.
Nothing stops the States from forming some sort of commission in order to harmonize standards between each other where needed. The Feds could even provide various resources, guidance, experts, and data to help.
On average, the more local the law/regulation is, the more efficient, low-impact, and cost-effective it is, and so more people will be inclined to participate, raising compliance and therefor better-fulfilling the initial goals of the law/regulation.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
If there's one thing I've learned in my 25 years in the software business, it's that common standards are better than mutually incompatible competing "standards".
If there's one thing I've learnt from 15 years in the software business, it's that no standard has ever been accepted from legislature or standards bodies. Successful standards start off with one person or company doing the right thing, or just having a large market share, and everyone else falling in line with what they're doing and it becomes a standard by convention. Sometimes after that, standards bodies jump on the bandwagon and retroactively "standardise" what everyone is already doing.
I've seen the danger of an overly powerful central government ... The cities are handing over their authority to a central government ...
I've seen the danger of an overly powerful central government ... The neighborhoods are handing over their authority to a central government ...
I'm not necessarily trying to disagree with this logic, but I've always been curious why Americans think that the state level should be the ones with the power? Why is the fed worse? And if we agree that the fed is worse, then why is the city level not better? What's special about the state level, beyond purely "because America did it that way so 'Murca!"?
The GSM network that most countries use doesn't count?
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Surely not the EVIL 'carbon dioxide', which the alarmists have been telling us is no longer the source of all plant life on the planet, but is now a 'pollutant'?
LOL.
www.climatedepot.com
www.wattsupwiththat.com
How do you save businesses money by regulating them?
And if consumers want more efficient air conditioners, they should elect to only buy efficient ones and refuse to buy power hungry ones.
Seriously, we don't need the government to do everything for us. Are you going to give up wiping your own ass next?
But hey! You're American! Who needs basic grammar!
Or should I say "Your American"...
The world isn't full of 1990's cartoon villains out to destroy the environment out of spite.
If being efficient is cheaper, the successful businesses will trend towards that. If this is all a bunch of smoke and mirrors and it's not actually cheaper, well you'd have to use some persuasion on businesses, like regulations, to force them to your will.
Who's the villain now?
So the customers, unhappy with the product, have no alternative but to buy the one available, because all the manufacturers can't be arsed to supply.
We are seeing to end of a working government in the USA. Obstruction will forever be the norm and heated political battles will rule in the USA in the future. Kiss the republic adiÃs.... Democracy was overrated anyway.
Publish and enforce them yourself.
Nothing bad has ever come from having 11 different set of standards each applying to a very small portion of the population.
But sure you could do that, then maybe you'll look to what your colleagues across the Atlantic did. They determined that it was madness and all formed a union of sorts in Europe.
You could have the same. You could form a Union. A Union of States ... In America! Imagine that, the "United States of America".
To this day Trump still has to hire thousands of appointees that work in the various departments. No wonder why no work gets done when nobody is there to run the shops. Worst case is the department of finance, inept Mnuchin is the only one in the management and leadership level. It clearly showed in the various international meetings where he was unprepared and totally clueless. Given that Trump's only agenda is to destroy government, he is doing a fine job. His plan on creating an oligarchy of the top1% is on target. Thanks to all those morons who voted this idiot into office. Did you get your mining jobs back already?
WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!
This enforcing laws already passed by the legislature.
If you don't like this, campaign to get the law changed. Be angry all you like, but be angry at the right target.
I've seen no evidence of any requirement that the government actually enforce laws passed by the legislature. If this were true, Obama administration should have been successfully sued for not enforcing immigration laws among lots of other things. Guess what, those sorts of lawsuits don't tend to go anywhere for a reason, just like this case.
Actually, I'd rather they just whine all the time instead of accomplishing things.
When someone says, "Any fool can see
Americans think that the state level should be the ones with the power because the United States is a federation of states which joined together for the purpose of collective defense and to collectively enter into treaties with foreign entities. If you look at our constitution it gives the federal government certain powers in specific areas. All the rest of the powers of governance are embodied in the states and the people.
So most things that effect a citizen's life should be regulated, if regulation is needed, at as close to the state level as possible. Many should be regulated at the local level with the state only intervening if there is problem, such as corruption or malfeasance of local government. Most things shouldn't be regulated at all.
As for standards the most far reaching standards in the United States in the area of safety, both fire and electrical are set by the National Fire Protection Association, an industry trade group. NFPA sets all of the standards for Fire, gas, electric, boiler and combustion systems, life code for building standards and even hazards of materials. All the individual states, most municipalities and even OSHA use these standards. So why should the federal government be setting standards for energy efficiency? Pollution goes across state lines but CO2 isn't a pollutant. Energy certainly isn't a pollutant so why is DOE involved? Let the states do it.
Looks like there are a similar number of Ds and Rs on there...
Your describing the Common Core Education standards, and underestimating the depth of stupidity in America.
Cheap storage VM.
The program doesn't appear to do what it purports to do:
https://hardware.slashdot.org/...
This is a case where no government would be better than completely ineffective government.
I'm willing to bet that Trump will delay via executive order, like Obama did with parts of Obamacare, at which point the left will say "You can't do that!" and the right will pretend it's different when they do it.
"Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
Democrats are the party of obstruction
LOL
Only because they learned it from the GOP which was named the "Party of No" for most of the Obama years. You reap what you sow!
Yeah, but if the company has to make one AC unit for my state, and a slightly different one for your state, that will surely make them cheaper, right? Asshole.
They don't have to do that now, so why should it change? Oh yeah, because we need to create more bureaucratic red tape.
Just another day in Paradise
By this logic, we should all just settle things at the UN. Why have different rules all over the globe?
The people are different in various parts of the country, and often have different circumstances for various things. Simple things like driving here on the east coast is a bit different than driving out in Montana, where you can see for miles....we don't need a national speed limit like we once had. People have different morals and ethics, and don't necessarily want to live in a place where they're dictated to by the areas that have the most voters. This is also part of the reasoning behind the Electoral College, and also why we have two houses of congress...why should the people in the "fly-over" states have to live by rules set by the more populated coastal states?
It's a negotiating position. And just like most negotiations, each side takes a position and plays brinksmanship, waiting for the other side to blink, and makes public comments about the other side wanting to shutdown. It's very unfortunate, because these negotiations should be done privately in Congress, so we don't waste the public's money. And yes, I've worked around enough federal agencies to know that many govt. employees rejoice at these paid vacations.
Nothing stops the States from forming some sort of commission in order to harmonize standards between each other where needed.
Article I, Section 10, Clause 3, part iv.
If you aren't aware of this, you should review how it says in the Constitution that States are forbidden from entering a compact without the consent of Congress.
The Feds could even provide various resources, guidance, experts, and data to help.
You mean what the Department of Energy already does, and used to make these rules?
On average, the more local the law/regulation is, the more efficient, low-impact, and cost-effective it is, and so more people will be inclined to participate, raising compliance and therefor better-fulfilling the initial goals of the law/regulation.
Actually, that's entirely and utterly untrue. The more local a law/regulation is, the more ineffective, intrusive, and less compliant enforcement tends to be, making it a worse outcome, unable to fulfill any desired goals.
Obviously you've never been involved in local government.
But then, I guess you never read the Constitution.
Hilarious. The GOP controls the Presidency, the House, the Senate, and has a Supreme Court stacked in their favor... Yet all they can do is blame the Democrats. How about using your party's monopoly of government to actually accomplish something, instead of whining all the time?
It is always humorous when people whine about other people whining.
And California would like to have a word with TotC and T.P.D.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
"LOL Only because they learned it from the GOP which was named the "Party of No" for most of the Obama years. You reap what you sow!"
"We need to get this bill passed so we can see what's in it!" - Nancy Pelosi
"You can keep your doctor." - Barack Obama
With governing like this, who wouldn't have obstructed some of the previous admin's efforts?!?