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Tesla Factory Reportedly Described As a 'Predator Zone' By Female Employees (theverge.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: Tesla's Fremont factory was described by a female employee as a "predator zone" of harassment in a meeting attended by dozens of employees, according to a bombshell report in The Guardian. Other women recalled being catcalled by male employees, feeling unsafe around male managers, and being subjected to sexist comments by their superiors, the report states. For months, The Guardian has been tracking the case of AJ Vandermeyden, a former Tesla engineer who sued the electric automaker for "unwanted and pervasive harassment." In her suit, Vandermeyden alleges that she and other female employees were denied promotions, paid less than their male peers, and retaliated against after making their concerns known to human resources. Several months after making her claims publicly, Vandermeyden was fired by Tesla.
You should see what's going on at SpaceX. Women there are forced to build products shaped like penises. Oh my!
"Several months after making her claims publicly, Vandermeyden was fired by Tesla." ... concluded her complaints were unmerited.
Oh the evil misogynist corporation trying to silence the victim?
No
She was fired because 'a neutral, third-party expert'
You know what, you're right, from now on we're assigning you to work with all males only, all the time. I'll take one for the team and work with all females, don't thank selfless old me! :)
Let's take that assertion at face value. Further, let's even suppose that you are right. Now, we're the species that have risen from warlords and chieftains to a planet that is more democratic than not. We have eradicated deadly diseases. We have landed on the moon. So, should we just throw up our hands and say fuggedaboutit, or maybe, just maybe, we could work a little harder on problems like these, where the problem is essentially to tell a bunch of assholes (and the smaller group of management assholes who are enabling this) to stop being assholes?
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
If you are criminally harassed, record and call the cops. For anything else consider that your safe zone doesn't extend past university campus, social studies faculty.
I swear, half my slashdot posts could easily be me going "Let me google that for you, you lazy hump."
Linux, you magnificent bastard, I read the fucking manual!
I take no position on the merits of the case until more information is forthcoming, and neither should you. But to call any and all claims of harrassment "feminazi" is hateful.
Yes, I know Tesla is kind of a startup, but auto plants can be rough places in general. There's certainly no political correctness going on in the ones I've been in. Companies need to crack down on harassment, but singling out Tesla is hardly fair.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
The problem with that is that shit rolls downhill. Management does it, so those under them do it as well because it's okay and because they too want to feel a bit empowered and they can't beat up on management.
And half the time they don't even realize they're doing it, because everything - management treating underlings as disposable slaves, and men treating women like shit, has been normalized, especially in the post-2000 tech environment that has reduced everyone to a cog who is replaceable at a whim, and where shareholders generally won't hold you to account as long as you make them the bucks, no matter how many people's necks you have to stand on, regardless of the sex of the necks you stomp.
If you can't do 100 hour weeks (and not be paid for 60 of them like a good slave), if you object to the overt sexism (you need to "toughen up" instead of expecting to be treated properly) you're not a "team player" - even when the goal of the team owners is to milk you dry as quickly as possible and then toss you aside for the next sucker.
All workers are suffering, and all workers are looking for outlets. Women just happen to be the "easy target du jour", like usual. Situation Normal, All Fucked Up. And as a result both sexes come out behind.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Except labor laws prohibit certain forms of harrassment at work even if they don't constitute criminal behavior.
Elon Musk is a progressive Clinton supporter. So are most Silicon Valley VCs and CEOs. The fact that these people and companies are constantly mired in misogyny and harassment claims neither surprises, nor prompts denials from, conservatives and libertarians. Why should it? It's not surprising to us that progressives and male "feminists" harass women.
So, when you talk about "misogynist scum", you perhaps need to be a bit clearer who you're talking about.
That's an interesting theory, but catcalling coworkers will get you fired nearly anywhere. Tesla should crack down on that shit.
I am so down for that. Bring home the bacon and I'll fry it up in a pan.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Since recorded history, whenever an attractive lady walked past a construction zone or equivalent, the male workers hooted and hollered like a bunch of monkeys (which humans pretty much are for good or bad).
Multiple times I've rode to lunch with "white collar" workers, and they do the same when an attractive lady crosses the street, usually with the windows closed, which differs from the factory situation in that the lady usually doesn't hear it (or pretends not to).
Males are biologically horny and it would take a lot of effort and resources to outright stop them from showing it. I'm not condoning flirtatious behavior, only saying it's very economically expensive to curtail most of it and there's probably a point of diminishing returns. Society needs to decide how much enforcement and regulation should be applied to curtail it because the cost ain't free: court costs, firing, training, and policing it is a de facto tax on products and services.
I will agree that (uninvited) touching and outright rude remarks should be punished by probation or termination. But there's a lot of "soft" harassment, much of it subjective in terms of offensiveness. For example, there's a lot of middle ground between "You look very nice today", and "You look veeeery nice today."
Another thing is that if a lady doesn't want such attention, dress ugly, or at least non-sexual. It's quite possible to look professional without adding a sexual nature. Wear dark pantsuits or long loose-fitting skirts, mild or no lipstick, light makeup, hair up or a simple ponytail, and simple practical shoes. Of course there are a few exceptional ladies who look hot in anything, but that's rare outside of modelling agencies.
I've asked some attractively-dressed ladies why they dress provocatively and yet complain about harassment. Their answer is often hypocritical: "I'm okay when nice men flirt with me but not creeps". They want the upsides of attention but not the downsides. I have to call them on that: you can't have it both ways. For one, "creep" is subjective (as the election showed).
Society will probably have to compromise: men can tone it down and learn to be more subtle, and women can manage their attire better.
Table-ized A.I.
Sorry, I stopped doing other people's homework in High School. You are the one who made the claim that this planet is more democratic than not, so you are the one who needs to back that up.
I already see a million comments from the crowd who dismisses all these complaints as "SJW BS." However, there is a pattern of startups ignoring bad behavior of some "rockstars." If proven to be true, that incident with Uber was pretty blatant -- having a female employee receive a request for...companionship...on her first day from her boss. I'm sure Tesla isn't far from its roots as a startup in terms of HR maturity either. They may be pretty far away from some one-trick phone app startup, but this is a culture thing that doesn't change unless there's external pressure to do so.
It doesn't even have to be a startup; I've worked at established companies where top salespeople get automatic passes on all the sexual harassment rules -- their management is willing to deal with the fallout to keep this salesperson producing. Watching some of these latent lawsuits in action is interesting, and the anti-SJW crowd can't just pretend it doesn't exist or that female employees receiving this treatment are all too sensitive. Whether it's the "neckbeard creeper" sort of stalking harassment, or the "ex-fratboy" overt kind -- if I were a woman I wouldn't be too happy with having to put up with either.
Yikes, so much wrong with this.
Title says "Tesla Factory Reportedly Described As a 'Predator Zone' By Female Employees", but the first sentence says "Tesla's Fremont factory was described by a female employee...". So which one is it? Plural is quite different from singular.
Then, there's the story (I'm not even gonna touch the Verge crap, we all know it's an identity politics rag at this point). Let's see.
The theme for this year’s International Women’s Day was “be bold for change” in the fight for a “more gender inclusive world” – but some at Tesla had a different plan for the day.
Five seconds in, and we already know the author is an "I know what's best for everyone" type keyboard warrior. This does not bode well for objectivity.
It was an opportunity for women to discover essential oils. A “health and wellness group” at the electric car company invited female staff members to an 8 March “lunch ‘n learn” about oils and how they can help improve people’s “health and happiness”, according to emails seen by the Guardian, which reveal that the proposed event was quickly met with vocal criticism.
Starting off great with some outrage that women were offered a 'lunch 'n learn' about oils. It's a well known fact that women don't like such things, that's why there's no market for female skin care products or wellness products. But hey, don't let a multi-billion dollar market get in the way of your feminism, you know what's best for everyone. Stay strong.
Tesla postponed the oils session. The company organized a town hall meeting on diversity for that day, which included six male executives and one woman, according to multiple attendees.
Note that there weren't 7 women executives attending, which is how a correctly diversified workplace should look. If they're all black, that's even more diverse. Diversity means fewer dicks in well-paid positions (but screw coal mining and construction, those places are dangerous!). Also note that this point is according to multiple attendees, but doesn't mention if Vandermeyden is included.
At the crowded meeting at the Fremont factory, women took the microphone one-by-one and shared stories of sexual harassment, mistreatment by male managers, unfair promotion decisions and more, sources said.
Now suddenly, "sources said". It's no longer Vandermeyden? The author doesn't mention other people coming forward here...
Vandermeyden, who attended the meeting, thought the outpouring of comments validated her own story.
Oh, I guess we're back to Vandermeyden.
Testimony from the town hall – along with internal emails from Musk, and Vandermeyden’s first interview since her termination – paint a picture of a company that has struggled to respond to mounting complaints about gender discrimination and has aggressively attempted to discredit a woman who publicly criticized it .
Testimony from the Town Hall... according to Vandermeyden? This is starting to sound very fishy. Almost as if there's only a single source for the "sky is falling" claims.
Musk was not at the meeting, which was attended by roughly 70-100 people, and featured comments from more than 20 women, according to Vandermeyden and another attendee.
Ahh, so there it is. Vandermeyden and another attendee. Wait, why is the other attendee only mentioned now? Does that mean that the other attendee only validated this one thing? That there were "more than 20" women attending?
One woman described parts of the factory as a “predator zone” for harassment. When the moderator asked women in the room if they had ever been catcalled, a significant number of women raised their hands, according to Vander
And your grandparents would have washed your mouth out with soap for disrespecting women. Your grandparents worked hard so you could have a better life - don't disrespect that by using it as an excuse to disrespect others. For that, they'd have taken you out to the woodshed.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
"Musk was not at the meeting, which was attended by roughly 70-100 people, and featured comments from more than 20 women, according to Vandermeyden and another attendee. "
So no one could independently verify that 20 women actually made comments at this meeting, other than a Woman who is trying to sue Tesla over supposed discrimination, and some random, unnamed person? Those are what pass for sources enough to write an inflammatory article saying "DOZENS OF WOMEN CLAIM HARASSMENT" ?
Desire has its place, the workplace shouldn't be it. Something about "don't crap where you eat" comes to mind. If some employees can't control themselves, then there's a door they can be shown.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
When I spent some quality time at Tesla doing installation work, I was surprised by various workers at different pitches along the line loudly blasting hard core hip hop music that profanely objectified women (you know the type of lyrics I"m talking about). On one hand, I appreciated that Tesla let their very hard working employees listen to the music (and I really appreciated being able to eat free cereal while I worked on electronics out on the line). On the other hand, I found the lyrics of the music to be really offensive to women and not at all professional. Also, I was surprised there there seemed to be little concern for the safety implications of blasting loud music.
Sigh. I hate it when I have to do this.
I celebrate the contribution women made to the war effort, but it is a downright lie to say they "by and large ran the massive industrial development necessary during WWII when the US was putting out a ship a day."
Women, at their peak, during the war, comprised 37% of the workforce. Which is awesome- and a *massive* increase from before the war. And they did it for less money. But don't rewrite history to make it prettier than it was.
The other problem is that offense is in the eye of the beholder. A man can genuinely not mean to be offensive - legitimately just asking a pretty girl out on a date, and it can be (mis)interpreted as offensive behavior. Now you end up putting management in the position of trying to armchair quarterback male/female interactions - was this really harmful, demeaning, threatening behavior or is she just overreacting? Since there's usually very little disincentive to err on the side of believing the accuser, you end up with men who tread VERY carefully around female coworkers - which is itself considered a different form of sexism, since the women end up finding themselves excluded.
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
They co-mingle just fine where I am. Very few problems, nothing like what is reported in this article. We have female managers, employees, scientists, engineers, technicians etc. I'm not claiming we've never had a problem, but problems are rare and harassment is not tolerated at all.
There are the usual and difficult issues with unconscious bias, matching pay to jobs etc but I haven't seen blatant harassment in the 25 years I've been here.
Its not that hard. When you are work, act like a professional.
When the boss or the coworkers are pretty much only sexually harassing women (and it's not just "asking them out for dates" - repeatedly after being told no) then this is gender-specific problem, and saying "The only exception is that sometimes the men ask the women out on dates" is just so tone-deaf ... and following that with ", which (apparently?) women don't like" is blaming the woman because the man can't conduct himself in a professional manner.
There's sexual harassment, and there's discrimination as well, and that discrimination is pervasive. Everything from meetings to pay and promotions. It's not just about inappropriately repeatedly asking for dates when the woman says no.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
If you are criminally harassed, record and call the cops.
Since it's a civil case, not a criminal one, I'm sure you meant "lawyers" instead of "cops".
So yeah, that's what's happening, but you seem cross about it.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Err...can you point me to the method to instantly turn off/on that hormone switch, and turn off my male sexually programmed brain?
Yes, whenever I see a woman, I instantly instinctually size her up with the question, "would I want to fuck her"?
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that does this...it is evolution as another person put it.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
A lot of people here seem to have their identity tied up very strongly with the idea that some men they don't know and have never met didn't harass anyone. It is impossible ot reason with someone who feels their very identity is at stake.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Thanks for proving my point!
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Some women lie. To be fair, people in general lie. I have a friend who told me that during a recession, one woman accused him of harassment because she was vying for his position. The co's trim policy let staff go in order hiring, and he had seniority over her. Thus, to increase her chances of survival, she tried to frame him. I know for sure she wasn't his type, so I believe him.
Table-ized A.I.
So how does that work when you see your mom/sister/daughter/grandmother/etc?
People are sexually desensitized to those they grew up closely with. That's a strong trait acquired by natural selection, because incest is very bad for the survival rate of offspring.
Now, if you first meet your sibling as an adult, there is nothing to stop attraction at the emotional level (except your reasoning, knowledge, and social pressure).
17779 eligible voters in a district, 17779 'vote' as one. This is Russia.
What behavior was rewarded? Catcalling? You serious?
Let's lay it clear - competition between males was rewarded. Not catcalling. Not rape. Competition between men. And the females were all too happy to embrace the winners. This behavior - males compete and the winners take all - is as old as multi-cellurar organisms that procreate sexually. 800 million years or so...
You give the impression that today the world is different somehow. Well, we still struggle for life, procreation and happiness, don't we? And we have that system where a thing called " money" - if you have it in great quantities - you live longer and are healthier and the prospects of your offspring are better and.......you get to fuck and choose your woman among much greater pool. And you get this money thing by competing with others.
And the women, for whatever "strange" reason still prefer the top 20% men - from dick size to wallet size.
Even if you remove completely the economy factor by say achieving Star Trek utopia, women will still go for winners only [the smartest,the starship captain, the biggest dick, whatever is beneficial/desirable in that utopia] and the sexual selection will FOREVER drive males to compete.
Message from the women to men: be ashamed from what we made of you! You, our creation, selected sexually to be a winner, brought up by your mother to be a winner [did you forget that all of us are influenced the most by our mothers -after all they married that competitive male - your dad], you are wrong, we don't need you and we don't want you.
10 out of 10 for schizophrenia, girls!
Bravo!
Males are biologically horny
So are women. The idea that it's men is a construct of this society. Others, such as ancient Greece considered women to be the uncontrollably horny ones.
Society needs to decide how much enforcement and regulation should be applied to curtail it because the cost ain't free: court costs, firing, training, and policing it is a de facto tax on products and services.
Unless it has the opposite effect of more women in productive jobs (i.e. larger overall pool of workers) in which case the tax will be negative.
Another thing is that if a lady doesn't want such attention, dress ugly, or at least non-sexual. It's quite possible to look professional without adding a sexual nature. Wear dark pantsuits or long loose-fitting skirts, mild or no lipstick, light makeup, hair up or a simple ponytail, and simple practical shoes.
Guys: wear a sharp suit. Feemales uglify yourself because it's YOUR fault if horndogs can't control their actions like civilised people. Oh and tough on you if dressing well tends to help with career advancement. Double tough if the dress code requires high heels.
I've asked some attractively-dressed ladies why they dress provocatively and yet complain about harassment. Their answer is often hypocritical: "I'm okay when nice men flirt with me but not creeps".
I'd say that kind of puts you into the creep end of things: what's really creepy is those people who can see other people's boundaries but willfully violate them. These ladies it seems would rather people like that didn't (for example) keep pushing the flirting after being shut down. You are basically saying it's not OK, and just fine for those creepy guys to keep pushing.
Society will probably have to compromise: men can tone it down and learn to be more subtle, and women can manage their attire better.
Maybe you should just beat off on the regular so you don't get a boner whenever you atch a glimpse of ankle.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Sex is a market. There are the suppliers (women) and the consumers (men).
WTF. I realize that I'm doing an ad-hominem now, but there is just no other appropriate response. Don't they have an education system where you live?
And no one even challenged you on it.
Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
My issue with asking out/being asked out by coworkers is that it puts the person being asked out into an awkward situation, and that isn't fair to inflict on a person in a workplace.
The person being asked out now has to spend time thinking about something they may not have been thinking about before, they may be stressed out about how a rejection might be handled by the other party, they may be worried about how accepting will make them look to other co-workers, and a whole host of other concerns.
Over the course of my career, I've been asked out by co-workers a number of times. My standard response is a polite but firm no, along the lines of "thanks, but I don't mix work and dating." 90% of the time, they accept the no and everything is cool, maybe some bruised feelings but nothing major. 10% of the time it has made things toxic due to them behaving poorly (spreading rumors, insulting or attacking me/my ideas far more aggressively than is merited, in one case the person literally turned around and went to our manager and demanded that I be moved to another team because they found me unbearable to work with (no joke, like, literally 2 minutes after asking me out they contacted our manager and, despite how absurd it was, it wound up becoming a whole "thing").
As a result of that 10%, if I get asked out by a co-worker, I now worry about whether or not the rejected party will be an adult about it, which causes stress, and was not stress I had to worry about until they decided to share with me their interest. I do not want to inflict that kind of stress on another person, so I don't ask my co-workers out while I'm still their co-worker.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.