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After Go, Developers Are Now Building AI To Beat Us at Soccer (cnet.com)
After Google's AlphaGo artificial intelligence bested our best Go player, South Korea is now setting its sights on making AI that can play soccer. From a report: Hosted by the Korea Advanced Institute of Science & Technology (KAIST), the AI World Cup will see university students across South Korea developing AI programs to compete in a series of online games, reported The Korea Times. The prelims will begin in November. "The football matches will be conducted in a five on five tournament," a KAIST spokesperson told the publication on Tuesday. "Each of the five AI-programmed players in such positions as striker, defender and goalkeeper will compete with their counterparts."
Bender: Now Wireless Joe Jackson, there was a blern-hitting machine!
Leela: Exactly! He was a machine designed to hit blerns! I mean, come on, Wireless Joe was nothing but a programmable bat on wheels.
Bender: Oh, and I suppose Pitchomat 5000 was just a modified howitzer?
low bar
Developers Are Now Building AI To Beat Us at Some Crappy 5-Person-Per-Team, Soccer-Themed Video Game
FTFY - no charge.
Football (sorry americans, thats what the rest of the world calls it) games have had fairly decent "AI" players for years. This is hardly raising the bar. Now if they created real robots that could beat a human at football, THAT would be something to behold. Though I don't suspect Boston Dynamics will be worrying about their share price anytime soon over that possibility.
With how easy the walking robots fall over (we have all seen the videos), it should not be that hard.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Here's the code:
if (in_posession_of_ball && opposition_near) {
take_a_dive_but_pretend_you_were_fouled();
}
Summation 2
Hey, I couldn't perfect my soccer game either. Does that make me not "naturally intelligent"?
Anyhow, the definition fight over "AI" is a long and winding one. Might as well fight over Emacs vs. Vim.
Table-ized A.I.
We as people, are faced with tasks that we just cannot learn to do. Because of limitations in our perceptions, thing that we have no instincts to do or even bother trying to do. Or the fact we have specialized in a particular area, that trying to learn a new way would take too long to redo.
The point of AI isn't to create a human replacement. But a tool that can process information from a human world.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I keep seeing this. I suspect a spam campaign.
Table-ized A.I.
I keep seeing this. I suspect a spam campaign.
Have you read the book?
how many ea coins will they get from that?
No, it's absolutely not about brute-force searching. The search space for Go is so massive that even the fastest computers really can't do exhaustive, brute-force searches for a solution. That's part of what made an AI winning at high-level Go such a milestone. To give you some context: the search space for Go is significantly larger than the estimated number of atoms in the universe.
I agree that it's a bit silly to call these algorithms "AI", but they're not nearly as simplistic as you're making them out to be. To be effective, the algorithms have to do a massive amount of heuristics-based culling before it can start searching for solutions, or else it would get bogged down in the math, no matter how fast it was.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
Emacs is closer to being AI than Vim will ever be. ;)
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Why don't you go read it, and write a blog post with your thoughts on it, rather than shitting up Slashdot by spamming your affiliate links in content-free posts like this?
I'm asking for opinions about the book before I buy it. I've been told that technical people still read Slashdot. You're obviously not one of them.
Seriously, creimer - if you want to make money off sales of the guy's books, at LEAST know what's in them. Don't expect us to do your homework for you.
I'm expecting you to whine. Every whine generates 3X more traffic than if no one said anything. I had 6X increase the other day. That was impressive.
South Korea is now setting its sights on making AI that can play soccer
Playing soccer (aka football) is the easy bit: kick and miss.
But will the AI be able to convincingly roll around on the ground just inside the penalty box? And more importantly will it be able to deal with the paparazzi and make vacuous statements like "it was a game of two halves" and "if we'd only scored more, we could have won".
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Association football is the correct name for the sport you are trying to describe.
Football includes a very large number of related sports, there is no single sport that is the true football. Some nations have officially tried to redefine the word "football" to apply exclusively to "association football" but bureaucrats don't have the authority to redefine language to be less precise.
were made by an octopus.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
If you have to assign it a task to learn, then it's not AI. I think AI should choose its own task to learn.
For hire.
ORDERED you fucking mongoloid!
Thank you, asshat!
Hey, be nice. Even straight people might feel threatened by AI. Now that Google can beat humans at purely intellectual challenges, like Go; they need AI to beat humans at physical challenges like soccer, and the locker room activities that follow. But no need to worry about the potential downsides of AI.
A guy worked at a coal mine. The coal mine closed.
So he got a job as an auto assembly line worker. His job was replaced by a robot that could do the job faster, more accurately and cheaper.
So he became a truck driver, because those trucks aren't going to drive themselves.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Python is 50 times slower than C++, but Python also allows to write in an easier way algorithms that are exponentially faster. O( n ) >> O( 50 log (n)) ..
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Rewind one hundred years.
Electricity is the most overhyped BS on the planet.
Telephones are the most overhyped BS on the planet. People mostly use them for idle chatter. What use are they? Almost as bad as facetwit.
Automobiles are way over hyped. They'll never be as popular as the beautiful traditional horse and buggy. Autos are noisy. Smelly. Difficult to start. Unreliable. If it backfires while you are cranking it, you could break your arm. And worst of all, automobiles frighten the horses. Automobiles are the most over hyped thing ever. Don't expect anything to come of these new fangled auto mobiles.
Back to the present. AI, a type of technology, is so over hyped that it already takes away jobs that people could do.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Funny that an "asshat" has better grammar than an "author"...
I left my editorial filter at home. You're getting my comments RAW.
Python is 50 times slower than C++, but Python also allows to write in an easier way algorithms that are exponentially faster. O( n ) >> O( 50 log (n)) ..
If speed becomes a factor, Cython comes into play
Now, turn those AIs into robots and you may have something.
But what the article is talking about is not AIs that can play soccer, it is AIs that can play a soccer-themed online video game.
How much editing does it take to understand grade school grammar like verb tenses?
Editing requires time. Time I don't have when I'm posting on Slashdot, as I'm multitasking other items at work. Besides, it gives the budding grammar nazis something to do.
Hey, I couldn't perfect my soccer game either. Does that make me not "naturally intelligent"?
Obviously you're not naturally intelligent - You had to be taught to play soccer. If you'd possessed intelligence as sophisticated as OP describes, you would have just started playing.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
Well, the RoboCup has it's goals set way higher for decades now!
Id like to see Robo Baseball! Seems like a lower-hanging fruit.
It's not editing, you cretin.
If I have to go back to correct, than it's editing.
Getting a verb tense correct should come naturally [...]
Grammar has never come naturally to me. It wasn't until a college English instructor offered a Saturday class for extra help, where I told her I couldn't explain why a sentence was grammatically correct but it "felt" right to me. She then explained why it was grammatically correct. Doing something that no other English instructor before her have ever done because grammar is supposed to come "naturally.".
[...] but you have some sort of undiagnosed condition preventing this.
Or I could be doing this on purpose.
Sitting on two chairs at once isn't really "multitasking", Chris.
I don't have a standing desk, so I don't need to stack chairs.
I built an AI and it decided to learn how to do nothing and it succeeded at it. OMG I created TRUE AI !
If you have to "develop" AI for a specific task (play games) or whatever then in my view it's not AI. I think AI should learn to do what ever task you throw at it.
They're working on that but trying to create an intuition of what's a stepping stone in the right direction has proven hard. It's mostly not how humans learn either. Even if you took someone off the street that's never played football, they've probably seen football. Or they got some basic idea of how it could be played based on analogies from other games. The totally blind approach would be like handing a tribe of Amazon Indians that's been in no contact with civilization the rule book and ask them to figure out how to play. So we're training the AI, but it's not anything like coaching a team. It's more like an armchair quarterback training, here's how a bunch of teams have played football. It doesn't even have to be the best teams, it's more about pruning the near infinite space of everybody doing everything to things that "makes sense".
Then the AI starts doing variations on moves, counter movies, counter-counter moves and so on and refine it. Maybe it's not so glamorous for sci-fi, but at least for automation we're starting to see AIs that can take rather "fuzzy" tasks, look at what a bunch of humans are doing to solve it and start doing it to OCD-levels of perfection at the speed of a computer. That's a pretty big deal for a lot of trades where you essentially apply variations of a skill but where the particularities of the situation has kept it from being automated like an assembly line. As in, I think it will enable AIs to automate a lot of things people don't really think can be automated. And if you assemble lots of these little AIs you'll get more automated processes than looking at one in isolation.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I guess he means the football game played with feet, not hands.
Totof
"The first official RoboCup games and conference was held in 1997 with great success. Over 40 teams participated (real and simulation combined), and over 5,000 spectators attended." [http://www.robocup.org/a_brief_history_of_robocup]
By "real and simulation" they mean that AI has been playing soccer for more than 20 years, both in simulation (as in TFA) and in real, physical robots.
Welcome to the world of AI research, South Korean!
(To be fair, it's probably some reporter's snafu, rather than a researcher's.)
Talking about soccer, the football game played with feet: can't bear watching a game.
Overpaid players who miss everything they can, and who prefer to cheat, pulling shirts or worse, instead of fighting for the ball and the goal.
Disgusting.
Totof
How many chairs do you break per month?
None. Next stupid question.
... now that would be interesting. Give, they'd probably kick the ball at 300km/h, unstoppable for mere mortals, scoring goals from every position and across the field.
But it would be a neat step forward in engineering none-the-less.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
Here's an answer in grammar you seem capable of parsing: he will not had better done that never at any time at all.
I suggest you read "On Writing," where Stephen King confessed his literary sins that got through the editorial process. Most of his early horror novels were written in a drug haze, some of which he had no recollection of ever writing.
An AI will be terrible at playing soccer, because you can put 11 computers on a soccer field running whatever program you want, and no matter how good the AI they are running, they will just sit there.
WTF is "an" AI?
An AI is a program, running on a computer, that simulates intelligence and/or solves problems in the way an intelligence solves them.
.... I don't know what "an" AI is capable of because I don't know what "an" AI is....
Now you do.
You're welcome.
No, if speed becomes a factor, then you choose a better language than python for doing your performance-intensive work.
Python is written in C. If you want to speed something up in Python, you can write it as a C extension. Or you can compile a carefully written subset of Python code into C with Cython.
Apples and Oranges. Nobody said anything about perfecting soccer as GP indicated and they are not teaching the same AI that won go how to play soccer, they are building a new AI custom designed to win at soccer. Arguably AlphaGO wasn't even a single AI.
The problem is the assumption that AI will beat humans at every given task. When we can interactively teach a running program a variety of tasks and have it perform on par with human subjects we've accomplished a human level AI. If we are trying to outperform humans with a program that has less processing power and memory than actual humans like AlphaGO we need specialized implementation. Also, there is the slight problem that the AI isn't truly intelligence until it is deciding for itself what it cares to learn and how it cares to spend it's time.
Scotland try that for every major tournament.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If you were asking for opinons why are you using an affiliate link?
Compensation for the abuse I get on Slashdot.
Indeed. Envy not thy mule dear friend. Envy not thy robot slave.
I would use plain C or Ruby or something, but in any case, if you realize that speed is non-optimal and you decide it matters, you just move the algorithm into a library written in C/C++ and now your scripting language is as fast as anything again.
They solved this problem in the 1990s. Probably earlier, too, but it does get re-invented constantly.
I remember in 1998 I downloaded a new chess program and somebody asked if computers were the end of chess. My father said, "No, and airplanes didn't end running."
But for context, top chess engines added strong non-brute-force algorithms 20 years ago, and they've had pruning of bad lines for longer than that. So even when they're saying "brute force," it isn't really and doesn't add up to silly numbers like the atoms in the universe, which is just %$&^!*@.
The problem with Go was always, according to the chess programmers, a problem of programming hours. There were simply more people working on chess software. The newer results are exactly as predicted; it is a matter of algorithms, and Go is more like a self-driving car than it is like chess. But still, they're also similar. The problem space isn't a list of every possible legal move, but rather whatever the list of known strategies is. In Go, as in chess, they had help from top professionals in the sport to get useful algorithms into the software. Then the software just drives through the strategies, and brute-forces the things that it "knows" contextually. But that is what all software does anyways, so it isn't even AI. It is just a sort of semantic calculator.
You invented the average teen!
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Which one is that? I can't think of any that exclusively use their feet.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
was of some dude curled up in a fetal position on the ground, screaming and holding his shin.