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Windows 10 Creators Upgrade Cuts Support For Some Intel PCs Early (pcworld.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the end-of-the-road dept.

Windows PCs with Intel's Clover Trail Atom chips will not upgrade to the Windows 10 Creators Update, which could wind up being trouble in the future. PCWorld reports: Owners of some Windows 10 laptops and tablets are crashing into a worrying roadblock when they try to install the Windows 10 Creators Update. Windows Update initially says the notebooks are compatible with the upgrade, but fails to install it after downloading the setup files, instead displaying the following message: "Windows 10 is no longer supported on this PC. Uninstall this app now because it isn't compatible with Windows 10." That sounds ominous, but you don't need to uninstall your existing version of Windows 10, and there's no app to uninstall. Instead, the message means your PC's hardware isn't compatible with the Creators Update.

A recent ZDNet article thrust this issue into the spotlight, but Microsoft laid out details about the error in an April forum post. Microsoft won't let affected hardware install the Creators Update because "Icons and/or text throughout the Windows interface may not appear at all, or may appear as solid color blocks on some devices." Can I install the Windows 10 Creators Update? Nope. But you might be able to in the future, according to the April forum post. "Microsoft is working with our partners to provide compatible drivers for these processors. Until then, Windows Update will prevent devices containing one of the processors listed above from installing the Creators Update." [Devices with these Intel "Clover Trail" processors are impacted: Atom Z2760; Atom Z2520; Atom Z2560; Atom Z2580.]

148 comments

  1. low end 32bit only cpus at the amd was all 64 by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    low end 32bit only cpus at the time amd was all 64 for some time.

    1. Re:low end 32bit only cpus at the amd was all 64 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and they are blaming the Windows display bug on the processor???

    2. Re:low end 32bit only cpus at the amd was all 64 by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      no that Intel was pushing low end crap at the time that would not support Linux.

      https://arstechnica.com/inform...

    3. Re:low end 32bit only cpus at the amd was all 64 by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Wake me up when it game as good with the same IPC as a 6 year old 2600k?

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    4. Re:low end 32bit only cpus at the amd was all 64 by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      ...and they are blaming the Windows display bug on the processor???

      Yes, on the PowerVR GPU. If you know anything about those, you know they suck and have the shittiest drivers.

    5. Re:low end 32bit only cpus at the amd was all 64 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, on the PowerVR GPU. If you know anything about those, you know they suck

      Yes, I know something about those. 20 years ago they were the sh$t, the only real competition to the juggernaut 3dfx Voodoo.

    6. Re:low end 32bit only cpus at the amd was all 64 by mccalli · · Score: 1

      They weren't though - I had a first gen one and took it back to get the Voodoo. It was very underpowered in comparison.

    7. Re:low end 32bit only cpus at the amd was all 64 by aliquis · · Score: 1

      Wake me up when it game as good with the same IPC as a 6 year old 2600k?

      Mean-while in their ads content about the Epyc launch Intel mention how this is the first new core from AMD in six years time. .. yeah.. and look at all that progress Intel has done since Sandy-bridge!

      (Then again they actually have. Maybe like 50+%?)

    8. Re:low end 32bit only cpus at the amd was all 64 by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Intel has improved IPC a bit each generation. Over the past 6 years that adds, up. But not nearly as much as the price.
      Clock speeds are around the same compared to the 2600k. Almost all of those would run 4.5 GHz on air with no real tweaking. With a few tweaks and good cooling you can push near (or to) 5 GHz. To break past 5 GHz on the 7700k you typically need to delid the CPU. Most OCd 7700k CPUs sit below or just at 5 GHz.

      The longevity of the 2600k is something Intel actively worked to dismantle by changing from a soldered IHS to shitty, shitty TIM (mayonnaise and toothpaste both perform better).

  2. Sounds like... by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The problem is due to the vendor's failure to provide proper drivers in a timely manner. This sounds like it's a blatant attempt to capitalize on many people's hatred for Windows 10 by blaming Microsoft for Intel's (or Asus'?) problem.

    1. Re:Sounds like... by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No Microsoft is stopping Windows from running on old hardware. You can't run Windows 7 on the latest i7 or Xeon chips.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    2. Re: Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like some millennials at Microsoft decided that its only fun to support shiny new things. Between the millennials and indo-chimps, this company's going down fast.

    3. Re:Sounds like... by unixisc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But this issue is the opposite - preventing not just the Creators upgrade, but Windows 10 itself from running on certain older CPUs. The mention of 32-bit vs 64-bit support doesn't make sense, since Microsoft made a conscious decision to include 32-bit support for Windows 10, despite the fact that one needs 4GB of RAM minimum to run this OS adequately.

      Microsoft can't have it both ways - try to force everybody to upgrade to Windows 10, but then throw up when people try to do it on computers that were otherwise working perfectly fine for them

    4. Re:Sounds like... by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      This is what I was coming to say. I know bashing Microsoft/Windows is trendy and all that, especially in this den of rabid, mouth-breathing troglodytes, but these Atom CPUs have a GPU made by Imagination Tech., not Intel, and it seems that is the culprit here. Acer did say they are working with Microsoft to try to get this fixed, too, so this should just be temporary.

    5. Re:Sounds like... by willy_me · · Score: 5, Informative

      Of course you can run Windows 7 on the latest Intel CPUs. Windows will not use all the hardware features included with the new CPUs but it will still run - just in an unsupported state.

    6. Re:Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cpu is branded as Intel - it has an Intel produced GPU. Whomever intel subbed the contract out to, isn't much of our concern.

    7. Re:Sounds like... by n329619 · · Score: 1

      Actually, IMO I would be angry with Microsoft. I mean have you ever install an app and it works up until you open it with a message like "it's no longer supported. Uninstall it now."

      It is the same as "Windows 10 is no longer supported on this PC. Uninstall this app now because it isn't compatible with Windows 10." In fact, Windows 10 isn't an app and it hasn't been installed so the second sentence only made more confusion.

      When what Microsoft should have done was to put a message like this, "This version of Windows 10 is incompatible with the following hardware [list hardware]. It may cause problems after the installation. Would you like to defer the installation?"

    8. Re:Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but windows 10 was pushed, hard, as the last version of windows you'll buy or need.. that it would be yours and supported for the 'life of the device'.. that last term has so much, too much, room for interpretation it's almost like microsoft is running for office.

      technically, i have an old deskpro (very early slot-1) that's still within its lifespan as far as i'm concerned. it works, it performs tasks when called upon, and has never once crashed or anything in its 20 year (and counting) life. if microsoft supported windows for the life of that device, they'd still be pumping out updates to windows dating back to 95 osr2.

      the supported lifespan of your hardware is at the sole discretion of microsoft. period. in other words, you're fucked if microsoft says so.

      and it doesn't matter if it's running new windows on older hardware (even if that hardware is only a few years old as is the case here with clover) OR older still supported windows on new hardware (re: kaby lake and zen are win10 only, microsoft went so far as to pull update eligibility for 7 & 8.1 from them after the fact. just a big 'fuck you' for buying or building a new pc without buying new windows 10, too).

    9. Re:Sounds like... by ls671 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also, "lack of proper driver to display icons and text correctly" doesn't really sound like a serious excuse.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    10. Re:Sounds like... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The fact that PowerVR-based Atoms have worthless driver support is Intel's fault: Microsoft's contribution to the debacle is creating a situation where upgrading the OS actually shortens the support window. If running Win8.1, these devices would get the pre "windows as a service" treatment; which in the case of 8.1 is mainstream support until 1/09/2018; extended support until 1/10/2023; if running Windows 10, a given major update gets only "at least 18 months"; after which you are potentially out of luck unless you can move to the next major update. And, since 'feature' and 'security' updates are now being aggregated; having a GPU with drivers that don't play nice with some aspect of WDDM means no security updates.

      Intel's support for the PowerVR-based Atoms has always been shamefully bad; and they deserve full blame for that; but that doesn't change the fact that Microsoft's big push for Win10 upgrades...doesn't look so good...for hardware where it now(well after users made the choice, and without any way for them to know) means that Win10 devices will fall out of support faster than Win8.1 devices will.

      It's also not a favorable anecdote for the 'Windows' glorious stable driver interface!' argument that always gets trotted out: It's not a huge surprise that an older part that always had shit support isn't getting shiny new drivers with WDDM 2.2 support; but Win10 1703 has apparently changed enough that those parts, which do have functioning drivers for earlier WDDM versions(probably 1.2 or 1.3; since they were introduced to support Win8; maybe 2.0 depending on how much polish they received for Win10) can't even continue to offer the features that they previously offered if you update to version 1703; while they did work in 1607.

      That sort of stability an backward compatibility used to be something that Microsoft at least tried at and cared about; the change isn't a flattering one. Entirely in keeping with Microsoft's Apple-envy approach of late; but not a good thing.

    11. Re:Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes and no. This is maybe the very first battle for territory... hardware rights and planned obsolescence in the Microsoft ecosystem. Windows 10 is the newest walled garden where the software publisher is allowed to expire hardware a customer has purchased. This is an echo.. of something that another vendor has relied on. Apple 101 - you can't make money on hardware by supporting legacy software platforms for more than a couple of years. For better or worse... Microsoft is now "owning" this plan which requires PC/Windows users to pony up more money to stay current... as Mac users have unfortunately become more complacent to. Honestly if you read up on it... the latest generation of the Microsoft Surface is glued together which is designed to never be upgraded... thus the hardware is stuck at a "point in time".

      Peace.

    12. Re: Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, it's not like we have alternatives to Windows at all. It's not like open source alternatives have been around for two decades.

      Well, I guess we're all fucked.

    13. Re:Sounds like... by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Just because a CPU is 32 bit, doesn't mean it can't address more than 4GB. PAE has been around for a long time.
      None of those Atom CPU's can even address 3GB though. Some are limited to 2GB and others 2.4GB

      You could install 8GB of RAM on an 32bit Pentium 4 if you had a 955X chipset.
      Pentium 3's could run 8GB of RAM with the right motherboard.

      There are also a bunch of 64bit Atom CPU's (that will still run Windows 10) that only support 2GB of RAM. Some are less than a year old.

    14. Re:Sounds like... by viperidaenz · · Score: 2

      Not being able to read any text would be a pretty serious issue.

    15. Re: Sounds like... by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Wait... You'd be angry just because of the verbiage?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    16. Re:Sounds like... by ls671 · · Score: 1

      I am blind you insensitive clod.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    17. Re:Sounds like... by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      The all new singing and dancing Windows 10 catch 22. You computer is now too old, it will not longer allow windows 10, buy a new computer but don't forget you previous copy of windows 10 is tied to the old computer we wont provide upgrades for, buy a new copy of Windows with the all new invasion of privacy feature, for your convenience, Doctors details for all family members and full medical record require, why because we want it, we will also require permission to access any camera or microphone, M$ software range will be required to be installed on your Android phone to monitor all conversations.

      M$ can not have it both ways, they try to have it every way, no matter how much you try to avoid them and their software.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    18. Re: Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haven't tried running lunix on old hardware, have you?

    19. Re:Sounds like... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      Even with PAE, a process couldn't address more than the 4GB limit, so you are still stuck if your single process app needed a larger memory space and you were on a 32bit x86 system :/

    20. Re:Sounds like... by The123king · · Score: 1

      If you're still on 32bit and need more than 4GB RAM, you're doing it wrong

      --
      If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat
    21. Re:Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what Microsoft should have done was to put a message like this, "This version of Windows 10 is incompatible with the following hardware [list hardware]. It may cause problems after the installation. Would you like to defer the installation?"

      What, you expect them to actually test the update before they release it?

    22. Re:Sounds like... by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      and if your 32bit single process app running on a 64bit OS needs a larger memory space you're still out of luck.

    23. Re:Sounds like... by kyrsjo · · Score: 1

      Regarding 32-bit and 4 GB RAM, can't they do PAE? Surely no single process needs > 4GB ram to run Windows?

    24. Re:Sounds like... by iampiti · · Score: 1

      Yeah, one of the many things I don't like about Windows 10 is that there's no notion of stable version any more. Windows 7 is still supported and, AFAIK, it hasn't had any notable changes in UI or features since it was released, it just gets security updates, as it should be.
      Windows 10 is developed in a sort of "agile" methodology: New versions every few months, any of which can contain any number of changes to the UI, and can add and/or remove features without notice. That's not something I like much in general, but on an OS I think it's beyond stupid

    25. Re:Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Says someone who's never run, say, Chrome, Electron, or VirtualBox.

    26. Re: Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'r telling me that Windows don't have a stable drivers ABI? Windows fanbois have claimed otherwise for years!

    27. Re: Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would windows be trying to upgrade a video driver? Have they gone nuts in redmond? I never used ms drivers for video after the initial install. Ffs.

    28. Re:Sounds like... by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That sort of stability an backward compatibility used to be something that Microsoft at least tried at and cared about; the change isn't a flattering one.

      On the application side perhaps, the driver side has never been that way. Microsoft releases a new version of the OS, the manufacturer may or may not update their driver. Which if it was a shitty vendor often did not happen on products more than a few years old because they already have your money and want to sell you the shiny new stuff. But that was okay because you could just stay on your current Windows version and get 5+5 years of support from MS even though the manufacturer dropped the ball after two.

      I thought it was bloody obvious what the consequences of "last version of Windows ever" and "the supported lifetime of the device" were, basically Windows will continually change and the hardware vendor has to keep up. If it doesn't, put it in the junk bin (or install Linux, but last I heard these PowerVR chips had even more terrible Linux support). Did you really think the plan was to continue to give you 10-15 years (manufacturer supporting version N+1, then 5+5 from Microsoft) of useful device life? Oh no, this is planned obsolescence at work.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    29. Re:Sounds like... by PingSpike · · Score: 1

      Well, you could. Except MS disabled updates all of a sudden if it detects you're trying to avoid Windows 10 http://www.pcworld.com/article/3189990/windows/microsoft-blocks-kaby-lake-and-ryzen-pcs-from-windows-7-81-updates.html

      Nevermind that drivers exist and were created by the hardware manufacturers (as is always the case with newer hardware). Microsoft didn't want that so its time to start abusing the update channel again.

    30. Re:Sounds like... by Merk42 · · Score: 2

      You computer is now too old, it will not longer allow windows 10, buy a new computer but don't forget you previous copy of windows 10 is tied to the old computer we wont provide upgrades for

      So it's like a Mac?

    31. Re:Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering all the fuck-ups, it would appear that Microsoft's "agile" developers keep failing their dexterity checks.

    32. Re:Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you could. Except MS disabled updates all of a sudden if it detects you're trying to avoid Windows 10

      While that is true also, I think what the original poster was talking about was the latest Win 7 updates that detect if you are using a recent generation CPU (skylake and I believe it was kabylake) which is enough to have windows updates disabled.

      And while I'm not excusing the way Microsoft handled this at all, at the same time at this point anyone running Win 7 still should be taking a different approach to maintaining updates and security that is under their control.

      Win 7 stopped receiving feature updates some time ago now, and security updates through the normal mainline update channels are due to stop in about 4 months from now (Jan 2018) anyway.

      Avoiding Microsofts update channels to keep Win 10 and its telemetry backports off your Win 7 system has been pretty standard for a couple years now, even if this was accomplished by the bare minimum of disabling updates completely.
      But that time was an excellent opportunity to switch your systems over to an offline/manual update process, either with WSUS and the business update channel or to one of the other tools to centralize update downloads to push over your LAN.

      Yes it sucks to need to manage yourself, but that's arguably better than not applying any security patches. It's just using Microsofts automated update channel hasn't been a good option for some time now either way.

    33. Re:Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shhh. Don't bring logic or reason or truth around these parts. Just let them cream themselves to their own warped reality.

    34. Re: Sounds like... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      I fucking hate Microsoft, but I have an ASUS T100-chi with 32 but Windows 10 and 2GB of RAM. I haven't had time to put Linux on it yet because there is some hoop jumping related to Bluetooth only keyboard, so I am using Windows on it for now. In truth it performs quite well. In fact I will probably just keep Windows so I have the experience of developing on a Windows box, for the rare time when there is no other option ( i.e. it's all the client has available / is willing to use) Sorry to shatter your worldview.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    35. Re: Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except you can call Microsoft and get it reset...

      Pirates and Mac users complaining about a non existent Windows problem? Priceless.

    36. Re: Sounds like... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Great point! You wouldn't want people to find out how much it excels for that use case!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    37. Re: Sounds like... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. It's like if I choose "Save" and it deletes my file instead. "Why you so mad bro? We just got the verb wrong!??"

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    38. Re:Sounds like... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      The problem is due to the vendor's failure to provide proper drivers in a timely manner. This sounds like it's a blatant attempt to capitalize on many people's hatred for Windows 10 by blaming Microsoft for Intel's (or Asus'?) problem.

      Some computer OS providers write their own drivers. Just sayin,

      Microsoft's demand that other's write drivers is part of the reason for the hate. That has not changed.

      To the point where the Windows ecosystem is now inferior. I had some dual boot system setups that needed a USB to serial adapter. In Linux, they set up perfectly. Windows? Nope. No driver, and none would be available. Had to purchase ones that had the driver. So I tried the adapters on an OSX system. Worked perfectly.

      The hate is well and truly earned.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    39. Re:Sounds like... by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      Okay fine, you don't like Apple. But lying doesn't accomplish anything apart from spreading FUD and diluting the real issues.

      Apple has never forced anyone to upgrade to a newer version of an OS, only to intentionally break that same version of the OS later on.

      Apple has very clear upgrade policies. You may not like them, but they are clear, and they don't change retroactively when it suits them. They don't pull "I have altered our agreement, pray I do not alter it further" bullshit the way Microsoft is doing.

    40. Re:Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clover trail (and the other Z atoms) are *embedded parts* as far as Intel is concerned, and that means you should NEVER buy anything with them inside unless it is an embedded hardware that is never going to run general software... BECAUSE the only one who will ever get the updates from Intel is your OEM. And we all know OEMs cannot be trusted to keep their shit up-to-date *EVER*.

      So, yes, the entire firmware for these processors is hopelessly outdated on >99% of the hardware that will run Windows 10, and the fault there is not just on Intel, but on the entire ecosystem (so it at the very least includes the OEMs as well, and likely Microsoft too). The outdated firmware has extreme issues in the embedded GPU and power management, as well as on firmware-provided tables (ACPI, etc) and even OS and OEM-provided drivers.

      I have no idea how much Microsoft is to blame on this one. But Intel and ASUS are certainly faulty. Intel creates and mandates the ecosystem, and ASUS shrinks on their (ethical) responsibility of keeping the firmware up-to-date for at least *FIVE* years since launch (embedded parts, remember!). Do note that Intel itself *does* provide full support for at least five years on those parts (including microcode and driver updates), but only directly to OEMs (i.e. ASUS). I have no idea *how well* they do it, though.

    41. Re:Sounds like... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      You computer is now too old, it will not longer allow windows 10, buy a new computer but don't forget you previous copy of windows 10 is tied to the old computer we wont provide upgrades for

      So it's like a Mac?

      Except that w/ a Mac, you never buy an OS w/o a computer, since Apple doesn't support Hackintosh. You automatically get OS X when you buy a Mac: you never get a Mac w/o the OS. Yeah, you could replace it w/ Windows, if you are stupid, but otherwise, there is never a case where the computer is not preloaded.

      Besides, does Apple force previous owners to upgrade their OS the way Microsoft does? If my experience w/ iOS is any indication, after a certain point on an old device, the OS can't be updated. If one goes to the app store to get things for that, one would be SOL, but if one just makes do w/ what they have, one would be fine. Not the case w/ Windows.

    42. Re: Sounds like... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      So has Creators' Update broken what you have? If not, you're not the subject of what's being discussed

    43. Re:Sounds like... by unixisc · · Score: 1

      'This version of Windows' is one thing. 'This version of Windows 10' is an oxymoron

    44. Re:Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and Rosetta never vanished when upgrading from 10.6 to 10.7.

      Oh wait....

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_(software)

    45. Re:Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is half true.

      A 32-bit process obviously has a 4GB address space.

      But there is an API to allow an app to map large blocks in and out of the address space: AWE (Address Windowing Extensions)

    46. Re:Sounds like... by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      It boggles my mind how hard it is for people to understand such a simple point. No wonder you posted AC. You probably couldn't figure out how to use the login prompt.

      Despite Apple's bad versioning, 10.6 and 10.7 were major releases, and there were announcements that Rosetta was being discontinued. So as annoying as it was to lose Rosetta, it didn't come as a surprise.

      Furthermore, Apple didn't force people to upgrade to 10.7, and then take Rosetta away *after* they upgraded.

      So you lose. Please play again.

    47. Re:Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Windows 7 ends extended support on Jan 14, 2020.

    48. Re: Sounds like... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      So you DIDN'T falsely claim Windows 10 needs 4 GB to run "adequately"?

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    49. Re: Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you really not realize what a pathetic loser you sound like right now?

    50. Re:Sounds like... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      You computer is now too old, it will not longer allow windows 10, buy a new computer but don't forget you previous copy of windows 10 is tied to the old computer we wont provide upgrades for

      So it's like a Mac?

      Ah, another day, another incorrect Apple meme to dispel...

      No.

      If Windows were like a Mac (or more correctly, macOS), in MOST cases, hardware would be supported for as long as reasonably practical. Right now, pretty much every, or maybe even every, Mac back to at least 2009 is supported up through the upcoming High Sierra version (macOS 10.13). That includes most Macs that shipped with Snow Leopard (OS X 10.6), which is SEVEN major revisions ago.

      http://osxdaily.com/2017/06/06...

      In other words, if it is a 64 bit Intel Mac, it will likely run High Sierra (and run it well, BTW). A few features might be excluded from the very oldest designs, and there is a peculiar anomaly in the "supported systems" regarding some "wrongfully orphaned" Cheese-Grater Mac Pros that the Mac hacker community has taken care of; but by and large, Apple has done a VERY good job at NOT obsoleting Mac systems.

    51. Re:Sounds like... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      It boggles my mind how hard it is for people to understand such a simple point. No wonder you posted AC. You probably couldn't figure out how to use the login prompt.

      Despite Apple's bad versioning, 10.6 and 10.7 were major releases, and there were announcements that Rosetta was being discontinued. So as annoying as it was to lose Rosetta, it didn't come as a surprise.

      Furthermore, Apple didn't force people to upgrade to 10.7, and then take Rosetta away *after* they upgraded.

      So you lose. Please play again.

      Exactly!

      And that is one of the reasons why a fair number of Mac owners were like "You'll pry the Snow Leopard (and its Rosetta) from my cold, dead fingers."

      But Apple never released some "Update" that then RETROACTIVELY killed-off Rosetta in SNOW LEOPARD. They just made a very concerted effort to make their first FREE Upgrade as enticing to Snow Leopard "holdouts" as possible, by making sure ANY Mac that would run Snow Leopard would run Mavericks as well.

      But, if they hadn't gotten rid of Rosetta, Devs would STILL be creating PPC applications, and people like Adobe and Avid would have NEVER converted their codebases.

    52. Re: Sounds like... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      I fucking hate Microsoft, but I have an ASUS T100-chi with 32 but Windows 10 and 2GB of RAM. I haven't had time to put Linux on it yet because there is some hoop jumping related to Bluetooth only keyboard, so I am using Windows on it for now. In truth it performs quite well. In fact I will probably just keep Windows so I have the experience of developing on a Windows box, for the rare time when there is no other option ( i.e. it's all the client has available / is willing to use) Sorry to shatter your worldview.

      God, no WONDER it will NEVER be "The year of Linux on the Desktop!"

      2017 and Linux can't deal with a BT keyboard without "hoop-jumping"???

      Back to the days of DOS and having to install MSCDEX from a floppy just to read a CD to then install Windows without resorting to the 32-floppy install procedure...

    53. Re:Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But there is an API to allow an app to map large blocks in and out of the address space: AWE (Address Windowing Extensions)

      Well, well what is old is new again. This is pretty much how the old EMS memory stuff worked on DOS. Keep remapping pages in and out of the address space. Terrible hack then, terrible hack now.

    54. Re: Sounds like... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Windows can't do it without hoop jumping either idiot. The difference is that it came pre-installed with an OS where ASUS already configured it. You are one stupid motherfucker.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    55. Re:Sounds like... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Yes and no. This is maybe the very first battle for territory... hardware rights and planned obsolescence in the Microsoft ecosystem. Windows 10 is the newest walled garden where the software publisher is allowed to expire hardware a customer has purchased. This is an echo.. of something that another vendor has relied on. Apple 101 - you can't make money on hardware by supporting legacy software platforms for more than a couple of years. For better or worse... Microsoft is now "owning" this plan which requires PC/Windows users to pony up more money to stay current... as Mac users have unfortunately become more complacent to. Honestly if you read up on it... the latest generation of the Microsoft Surface is glued together which is designed to never be upgraded... thus the hardware is stuck at a "point in time".

      Peace.

      Kindly leave Apple out of this meme.

      Here is the compatibility list for the upcoming macOS "High Sierra" (macOS 10.13).

      http://osxdaily.com/2017/06/06...

      Notice that the compatibility goes back to Macs built in 2009. That means that these Macs were first released with OS X 10.6 ("Snow Leopard") on them.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Snow Leopard, BTW, was the FIRST Intel-Only version of macOS (nee OS X). IOW, that means that Apple has actually MAINTAINED support for essentially EVERY (64-bit) Intel Mac ever created! Support for 32-bit (CoreSolo?) systems was ended with OS X Lion (10.7); but there were only a few models affected (a Macbook, and a bottom-level Mac mini, IIRC).

      So, stop saying that Apple drops support for Mac hardware prematurely. With few exceptions, if you have an Intel Mac, you should be able to install and use any of SEVEN major releases of macOS, even up to the not-yet-released High Sierra.

    56. Re: Sounds like... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Windows can't do it without hoop jumping either idiot. The difference is that it came pre-installed with an OS where ASUS already configured it. You are one stupid motherfucker.

      Then I guess they are BOTH inferior to macOS, which handles BT keyboards right out of the box.

    57. Re:Sounds like... by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

      Speak of which, do you have any suggestions to running PPC apps in 10.7+?

      Having to dig up an old copy of 10.6 and cajoling it to install under Parallels seems like overkill.

    58. Re: Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chill out, Kevin.

    59. Re: Sounds like... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      It is not an add on / secondary keyboard idiot ... and Apple also pre-configures. You truly are a moron.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    60. Re:Sounds like... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Speak of which, do you have any suggestions to running PPC apps in 10.7+?

      Having to dig up an old copy of 10.6 and cajoling it to install under Parallels seems like overkill.

      The only LEGAL way to do it is to install a copy of Snow Leopard 10.6.8 SERVER. You have to hunt around to find how to install the package for Rosetta (it isn't installed by default on SL SERVER). I assume Pacifist would do it.

      But there's no "cajoling" to it. There are tutorials galore on the intarwebs explaining how to install under Parallels or VMWare Fusion.

      But it starts by you CALLING Apple Support, and ordering the magic part number for $19.99. They will usually deny having it, but be insistent. Make them check with their "supervisor":

      https://discussions.apple.com/...

      Sorry, that's the only way, other than doing screen-sharing with a Mac that is running Snow Leopard or a PPC Mac running Leopard...

      Hope this helps!

    61. Re: Sounds like... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      It is not an add on / secondary keyboard idiot ... and Apple also pre-configures. You truly are a moron.

      Apple does NOT "pre-configure". When you first startup an new (or newly-upgraded) Mac, you have to go through a little "Identify the Keyboard" dance.

      But the DRIVERS are all there already. THAT's the difference!

      So, it looks like it is YOU that is truly the moron, eh?

    62. Re: Sounds like... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      All the drivers are there with Linux too, so I guess that makes YOU the moron. HAND and FOAD now :^)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    63. Re: Sounds like... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      All the drivers are there with Linux too, so I guess that makes YOU the moron. HAND and FOAD now :^)

      IF all the drivers are there, then why do you have to mess around?

      Oh, I know, they may be PRESENT, but YOU have to decide which one to use, rather than the OS being smart enough to at least give you something that will work well enough to get started.

    64. Re: Sounds like... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Read your own post idiot. You just said you have to "Ness around" with Apple. So if all the driver's are there, why do you have to "mess around"? You are so fucking stupid it blows the mind.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    65. Re: Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since you know literally nothing about Linux, now would be a really good time to STFU and stop putting your foot in your mouth with every post.

    66. Re: Sounds like... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Read your own post idiot. You just said you have to "Ness around" with Apple. So if all the driver's are there, why do you have to "mess around"? You are so fucking stupid it blows the mind.

      By "ness around" [sic], I mean that you have to press a couple of key sequences that the "new keyboard identifier" requests, so it can determine which keyboard LAYOUT is being added; NOT to determine whether there is keyboard activity on Bluetooth vs. USB.

      NOW do you understand?!?

    67. Re: Sounds like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are a douche. Just admit you made yourself look like an idiot and STFU. He never said what the steps needed were and you started making shit up that wasn't true and made yourself look stupid again, as usual.

    68. Re: Sounds like... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Actually, you can't do it at all with Apple as it turns out, but it sure was fun watching you make a fool of yourself. Thanks!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    69. Re: Sounds like... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Actually, you can't do it at all with Apple as it turns out, but it sure was fun watching you make a fool of yourself. Thanks!

      WTF does that article have to do with automatically recognizing Bluetooth Keyboards on a Mac?

      I genuinely didn't see anything about that in my (admittedly fast) skimming of the linked article. So, if you'd like to continue your tirade, please point to the text in that article that has anything to do with Keyboard recognition on the Mac.

    70. Re: Sounds like... by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      Are you arguing that it's not a serious thing?

    71. Re: Sounds like... by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      Did Microsoft stop you from using periods to form sentences?

    72. Re: Sounds like... by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      You're both morons who should STFU. Simply put, if a Bluetooth keyboard just doesn't work out of the box without hassle, the MFG fucked up, not Windows or macOS.

    73. Re: Sounds like... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      You are actually a bigger idiot than him. Amazing. Go back to the top of the thread and read again. Read it over and over again until you realize how incredibly fucking stupid you are for posting what you posted.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  3. End of the road for 32-bit OS support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems M$ wanted to kill legacy 32-bit OS further...Hmmm...

    1. Re:End of the road for 32-bit OS support? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      They still support other 32bit Atom CPU's

    2. Re:End of the road for 32-bit OS support? by unixisc · · Score: 1

      I just wish they had! Had they made Windows 10 a 64-bit only OS, there wouldn't have been an issue. Continue selling Windows 7 to everybody w/ 32 bit CPUS, but for 64-bit upwards, make it Windows 10. That would have made their adaption easier: Windows 10 wouldn't have forcibly installed itself on 32-bit systems or anything

      But by forcing themselves to support 32-bit x86, they contributed to this mess.

  4. Nothing to Worry about ... yet by williamyf · · Score: 3, Informative

    Creator's Update was released On April 11 2017, and on THAT DATE Microsoft advised owners of affected chips NOT to apply the Update while the situation was resolved.

    Those people are (for the time being) on Aniversay update, which was launched on August 2016, and has 18 months of security updates. That leaves Micrusoft until May 2018 to solve the problem and alow those people to update, or since aniversary update is a "Current Branch for Business"release, and therefore, keep receiving security updates for 5+5 years, may release said patches to affected users, or declare defeat and officialy cut suppport for said chips.

    But, being that it's been only 4 months since the problem started, it is sort of premature to declare that support has been cut for said Hardware...

    The article was mostly clickbait... and boy so many clicked... (meesssa included, young yedi)

    More info here:
    https://www.thurrott.com/windo...

    --
    *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
    1. Re: Nothing to Worry about ... yet by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      So what you are saying is Microsoft knew that they weren't going to support it, but rather than checking through software at the start of the process they put the onus on every user on the planet to have read about it, know what exact hardware they have, remember 4 months later, and then assume they hadn't resolved the issue, and then assume OK meant "PLEASE WASTE MY TIME AND THEN LIE TO ME AT THE POINT OF FAILURE"?

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    2. Re:Nothing to Worry about ... yet by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      Creator's Update was released On April 11 2017, and on THAT DATE Microsoft advised owners of affected chips NOT to apply the Update while the situation was resolved.

      But the update was installed three whole months later, and the problem was STILL not fixed. I also experienced a problem with the Creator's Update: The new Night Light feature (similar to f.lux) didn't turn off automatically. Searching for some answers, I found several posts about people reporting the same problem to microsoft... in April. Three whole months went by, and they still didn't fix it. What's the point of using your users as a beta test if you don't actually *DO* anything with the feedback?

    3. Re:Nothing to Worry about ... yet by williamyf · · Score: 1

      But the update was installed three whole months later

      Yes, the Update was installed MANUALLY three months later.

      Users were told not to install the update MANUALLY, but instead wait for it to arrive through automatic updates, and they went out of their way to install it MANUALLY. I know we are in slashdot, were reading TFA is frowned upon, and bashing Microsoft is trendy, but please... "Un poquito de porfavor!"

      --
      *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
    4. Re: Nothing to Worry about ... yet by williamyf · · Score: 1

      [...]but rather than checking through software at the start of the process[...]

      They check at the strt of the process and not perform the update IF you heed the advice and leave it to the automatic updates. If, on the other hand, you DO NOT heed their advice and installed MANUALLY three months later, well, this is bound to hapend, wart, confusing messages and all.

      Users were told not to install the update MANUALLY, but instead wait for it to arrive through automatic updates, and they went out of their way to install it MANUALLY. I know we are in slashdot, were reading TFA is frowned upon, and bashing Microsoft is trendy, but please... "un poquito de porfavor"

      --
      *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
    5. Re: Nothing to Worry about ... yet by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      I read enough to know that it isn't an update, and they didn't refuse to proceed, but rather went through the entire *INSTALL* before complaining, and then botched that too. Off you go now little troll ...

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    6. Re: Nothing to Worry about ... yet by williamyf · · Score: 1

      If you install by hand you are supposed to know what you are doing, so no check beforehand for you. Maybe you are testing, or are the actual ASUS/Intel/PowerVR/Microsoft developer trying to fix the issue.. who knows, but microsoft assumes you know what you are doing.

      If, on the other hand, you left things well alone, and waited for automatic updates as recomended by Microsoft for this specific case, you will never be offered the update in the first place, because the update system will check at the start of the process if your system is compatible or not...

      The issue only affects people who, contrary to Microsoft's advice are manually updating...

      We can revisit the issue closer to the real cutoff of security updates for Aniversary update... say, around feb 2018. I am certain that, if by then, ASUS/Intel/PowerVR/Microsoft have not reolved the issue, most tech news outlets, Slashdot included, will pick up on the issue

      Until then "We'll be seeing you"

      --
      *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
    7. Re: Nothing to Worry about ... yet by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      It isn't an update dumbfuck. Stop misusing terms just because Microsoft misuses them.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    8. Re: Nothing to Worry about ... yet by williamyf · · Score: 1

      It isn't an update dumbfuck. Stop misusing terms just because Microsoft misuses them.

      Potato-Potatoe-Patata
      Tomato-Tomatoe-Tomate
      Pineaple-Pi#a-Ananas

      If you prefer the word UPGRADE, that does not change any facts, so I'll use it then in order to humour you:

      * People with afected Hardware who, in April 11 2017 heeded Microsoft's advice waited for the WU program to deliver the Creators UPGRADE for them did not have any problem, becasue the WU Program performed a check before starting, detected the Hardware as not supported, and therefore, never offered said UPGRADE it in the first place. Leaving them with the Aniversary UPGRADE, which has security patches for 18 Months (Giving Intel/PowerVR/Microsoft/Hardware Makers 18 months to solve said problem).

      People who went out of their way to go to Microsoft's Download site, and manually download the install media for Creators UPGRADE, and then try to manually install said UPGRADE, are supposed to know what they are doing. If they are hit by the bug (including a stupdly redacted/outright-lie message at the end), their problem.

      Close to when the security patches for Aniversay UPGRADE cease to come by, in about May 2018, we can re-take the issue, until then: "Be seeing you"!

      Happy now?

      As you see, the use of the word UPGRADE instead of update does not change the fact that the article in ZDnet and PCWorld are clickbait. Also does not change the fact that people are afected only if they manually attept the procedure (against the provided advice), and also does not change the fact that is too premature to talk about Microsoft leaving some people on the lurch, or whith less support tht they could have had if they remained on Win8.1.

      Again, we can revisit the issue in the begining of next year...

      --
      *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
  5. Time to upgrade your hardware! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now OS vendors get to make that call for you.

    1. Re:Time to upgrade your hardware! by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      That's hardly new. Even Linus killed '386 processor support for Linux back in 2012 with the comment, "I'm not sentimental. Good riddance."

      REF: https://linux.slashdot.org/sto...

    2. Re: Time to upgrade your hardware! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You refer to the 386 released in 1985? And he cut support only nearly 3 decades later? Bastard!

    3. Re:Time to upgrade your hardware! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it's not your call to force software vendors to support old outdated hardware.

  6. Lesson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How to fuck up your company by Satya Nadella. Someone needs to pay this man a huge bonus.

    1. Re: Lesson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1. Stop hiring Indians
      2. Stop spying on your customers
      3. Stop stealing your customer's data
      4. Regain your destroyed reputation
      5. Release an OS without builtin unavoidable spyware
      6. Profit!!!

  7. Bwahahaha... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ROFLMFAO

  8. If I read this correctly... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 3, Interesting
    ... if the customers had stayed with Windows 8 and fought off the egregiously aggressive Windows 10 updates, those customers would continue to receive updates through 2023. But because Microsoft hijacked their PCs and all-but-forced an upgrade to Windows 10, updates for the PCs will be shutdown very soon.

    .
    Welcome to the new Micro[screw the customer]soft.

    1. Re:If I read this correctly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >if the customers had stayed with Windows 8 and fought off the egregiously aggressive Windows 10 updates

      I did stay with 8.1 and am luckier for it! I dumped the stupid Metro or whatever full icon page in favor of the regular desktop & am happy.
      Win 7 and Linux at work, so no problems their either.

      Resist the SHINY = NEW bs!

      _

    2. Re:If I read this correctly... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to the new Micro[screw the consumer]soft.

      FTFY.

      Remember, you are a consumer. A thing which exists to eat crappy overpriced products and services from corporations, while shitting out gold bricks for them. Recently that definition was extended to include being a product that said companies could sell to other companies like a whore.

      Know your place, citizen.

  9. FTFY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You've mis-spelled "same old" as "new".

  10. where is the basic VESA mode fail back driver? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    where is the basic VESA mode fail back driver?

  11. if intel would of gone all 64 at the same time AMD by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    if intel would of gone all 64 at the same time AMD then maybe 10 would of been 64 bit only. 2012R2 was the start on server.

  12. And only Cloverfield (2012?) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've got an Atom 330 (2009) running 1607, 32-bit. Does fine. I would not be bothered if that was the end, but my god man, think of the children of Donald J Trump! I hear they are all good boys, or bleached-blonde. Something makes me think of, I want to hold your haaaaand, I want to hold you hand.

    1. Re:And only Cloverfield (2012?) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      me too! mine runs openELEC without a HDD!

  13. :facepalm: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ill stick with Windows 7, thanks.

    1. Re: :facepalm: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound like you need to visit room 101

  14. Only Intel's Atom CPUs. by Darkness+Of+Course · · Score: 1

    I noticed several titles re this sudden loss of support for Intel CPUs by W10. Cute, Intel Atom CPUs is accurate but very few would care about them. They are not a large market, never were and are quite literally a dead product line.

    Granted, click driver journalism isn't the gold standard even if it is the current standard.

  15. My ASUS EeePC.... by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 1

    ...Came with Windows XP, but now runs 16.04 lubuntu.

    It's still running fine with a 2GB upgrade, and will probably do so until the Y2038 bug

    --
    READY.
    PRINT ""+-0
    1. Re:My ASUS EeePC.... by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      ...Came with Windows XP, but now runs 16.04 lubuntu.

      It's still running fine with a 2GB upgrade, and will probably do so until the Y2038 bug

      Why would that stop it? The unix clock can be 64-bit even if the processor is not ;)

    2. Re:My ASUS EeePC.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      32 bit compiled linux seems to use a 32 bit time_t in critical places.

  16. Still crap by martinX · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Uninstall this app now because it isn't compatible with Windows 10."

    That sounds ominous, but you don't need to uninstall your existing version of Windows 10, and there's no app to uninstall. Instead, the message means your PC's hardware isn't compatible with the Creators Update.

    And that's reason number eleventy billion why Windows is still crap. A simple message that is completely wrong. They can't even get that right.

    --
    When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
  17. Re:Only Intel's Atom CPUs == BSD or Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Meanwhile, the same processors have no problem running BSD or Linux. So follow the MS advice and uninstall Windows.

  18. Re:where is the basic VESA mode fail back driver? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    I don't know if that is still a thing. UEFI Graphics Output Protocol has the knives out for VESA mode; though I don't know how many, if any, devices are now VESA-free; as opposed to supporting both.

  19. THE ARE WINDOWS 10 COMPATIBLE by gl4ss · · Score: 1

    but they work with windows 10. they don't work with the "creators update" windows 10. the error message says they don't work with windows 10. but they are already in windows 10 using windows 10.

    you see, the cpu they have does have drivers for windows 10. just not for the windows 10 preview(creators update) it was updating to. you see, since microsoft decided that windows 10 is just windows 10 you will have hardware on the market that is windows 10 compatible that does not work with windows 10 eventually. and software that needs windows 10, that you then try to run on windows 10 but fail. then you call your software support hotline and ask wtf, and they will ask you if you have windows 10 or windows 10.

    basically... when microsoft said that windows 10 will be the final windows what they actually meant is that for couple of years they will brand all their windows releases as windows 10 regardless of it being the same thing or not - and that sure as f is the fault of microsoft. SO IS FUCKING MESSING WITH FEATURES AVAILABLE IN THE PRO VERSION YOU DON'T FUCKING CHANGE HOW YOUR PRODUCT WORKS WITHIN THE SAME VERSION NAME WITHOUT PISSING OFF PEOPLE GODDAMN, so actually it is entirely microsofts fault. 100%.

    --
    world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    1. Re:THE ARE WINDOWS 10 COMPATIBLE by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      1000% Agreed!

  20. UNpredictable armageddon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This causes major uncertainty for some companies. Mine uses one (older) chipset exclusively: The Intel X58 for Socket 1366 Xeon processors. These beasts still perform and are dirt cheap.

    The problem is, when Microsoft stops supporting them, we will have an issue. I guess we will use Deep Freeze for a period of years, but imagine coming into work as IT director and seeing that all our PCs are no longer supported by Microsoft!

  21. Gentoo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Install Gentoo

  22. Welcome to Linux by Lost+Penguin · · Score: 1

    where freedom still exists....

    --
    I am the unwilling control for my Origin.
    1. Re:Welcome to Linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how well is Cloverview supported under Linux, and do you trust Intel to continue to provide support (if it even does now)?

  23. Blame Intel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They don't seem to be willing to provide any real support for their low-end products. They've dropped the ball on Clover Trail, I wonder how long before they do the same for Bay Trail, Cherry Trail and so forth. I've got both a Compute Stick (low-end Linux model) and a Lenovo IdeaStick 300. The first is pretty useless now because there don't seem to be audio drivers for Ubuntu 16.04 (which would otherwise be useful), and the latter is a PITB for installing Linux because of the 32-bit boot (vs 64-bit operation) issue. I lay these problems at Intel's doorstep, although OS code bloat will be a problem before long.

  24. Excuse me by puddingebola · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't running Windows 10 on a low end Atom processor be torture anyway?

  25. Funny I can show how I know it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've never noted TThread.Synchronize on /. but I created a multithreaded program using it which invalidates your lie APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-7 32/64-bit https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=%22APK+Hosts+File+Engine%22+and+%22start64%22&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1/

    * Jealous I can SHOW I know how to use that & you can't? Yes...

    APK

    P.S.=> People like & use my work (as well as host + recommend it), not yours https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=10845337&cid=54788831/ lol... apk

  26. Impersonating me AGAIN? LMAO! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: You're still butthurt I tore you apart in the past on tech issues under 1 of your many sockpuppets registered 'luser' identities here, but do you have to make it SO apparent I have?

    * Unbelievable...

    APK

    P.S.=> Your effete "ReAcTioNs" PROVE I tear "naysayers/detractors" apart as you always start w/ me as you have now & I finish you easily just as I have now... apk

  27. Just blocks and missing text? by ThePub2000 · · Score: 1

    I didn't think we could do any worse than that. I have a Surface Pro 3 which regularly has missing icons, as far as I've experience since they released a beta this has been an on and off issue. I always hated Apple for their quickly dropping hardware as "supported", it seems I need to readjust my expectations of Microsoft now.

    Windows 10 is a constant stream of lackluster "improvements". All a person has to do is open the "settings" to realize you still need a Control Panel, but in their infinite wisdom Microsoft doesn't give you quick and easy access to that now.

    This whole upgrade strategy is bizarre if you ask me.

    1. Re:Just blocks and missing text? by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      I didn't think we could do any worse than that. I have a Surface Pro 3 which regularly has missing icons, as far as I've experience since they released a beta this has been an on and off issue. I always hated Apple for their quickly dropping hardware as "supported", it seems I need to readjust my expectations of Microsoft now.

      Windows 10 is a constant stream of lackluster "improvements". All a person has to do is open the "settings" to realize you still need a Control Panel, but in their infinite wisdom Microsoft doesn't give you quick and easy access to that now.

      This whole upgrade strategy is bizarre if you ask me.

      Excuse me, but other than a few 32-bit Mac models, the last of which was discontinued in August, 2007, and some of the very earliest 64-bit machines, nearly every Mac since 2009 is STILL supported, even in the not-yet-released macOS 10.13 (High Sierra).

    2. Re:Just blocks and missing text? by ThePub2000 · · Score: 1

      Well, "excuse me", for tamping on your happy deluded Apple Fanboi Day. Lol, my comment wasn't even a slight against Apple, so if you take it that way, maybe you should grow another layer of skin. Like any good professional I own all kinds of equipment, and "excuse me" if I can't say something truthful.

      You're right, Apple has continued to support the top-of-its-line computers all the while dropping support for it's lower-end units on a continuing basis. And while they may "upgrade" some hardware with the "latest", it often may not function with the same level of compatibility it did with previous iterations. Take for example any older iOS device, or even older desktop Macs (of which I own a couple).

      I don't suppose your Mac Fanboism will allow you to step back, take off the rose-colored glasses, and realize that Microsoft is just going down the same road as Apple by drawing a line at a certain level of hardware support. For better or worse, that is the case ATM. Unlike Apple, Microsoft will have to work with its distributors or die, so that likely means continued support for older hardware overtime.. unlike Apple, which kills it dead and you're stuck.

      I don't post regularly here, but clearly the quality of /. reader has gone down in the last 20 years, along with it's "reporting".

    3. Re:Just blocks and missing text? by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      You're right, Apple has continued to support the top-of-its-line computers all the while dropping support for it's lower-end units on a continuing basis.

      BZZT, wrong, Chucko!

      Some of the Macs "orphaned" along the way were 2007 and 2008 Mac Pros. Fortunately, I believe the Mac Hacker community alleviated that problem.

      And while they may "upgrade" some hardware with the "latest", it often may not function with the same level of compatibility it did with previous iterations.

      True. Some configurations have things like certain GPUs that simply cannot support things like GCD and OpenCL. I'm sure there are other examples I can't remember offhand.

      [...] unlike Apple, which kills it dead and you're stuck.

      And so your computer simply stops working if you can't upgrade the OS? Riiiiiight.

      All hardware support ends at some point. That's a fact. But Microsoft's sin was in prematurely and unnecessarily ending support for relatively modern hardware; and worse yet, having an error message so badly worded that a non-savvy User is likely to think that they just "Upgraded" their computer into oblivion.

      THAT's the difference between Apple and Microsoft.

  28. It's Intel's fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I dislike MS, but I don't blame them for this situation. The CPU in question, Atom Z2760, is such a POS chip, that even Linux won't run on it, not to mention NetBSD (correct me if I'm wrong). It's no wonder that new OSes don't support it, either. Atom Z2760 is designed to only work under Windows 8, and nothing more, period.

  29. PAE on Windows? by unixisc · · Score: 1

    Does PAE apply to main memory, or storage? I thought it was the latter. Windows never had PAE, or else, they wouldn't have needed to go from 32-bit to 64-bit, since that involves a major hit in storage requirements, cost & performance

    I've never understood the artificial limits that are put on CPUs in terms of addressing. If something is 32-bit, let it address up to 2GB (assuming that one address line is needed for BIOS or IO or anything else. If something is 64-bit, there are enough addresses to have memory mapped IO, and a whole bunch of other things. There is no justification for capping it at 64GB or 1TB or anything - just have different memory maps for memory, IO, storage & anything else that could use addressing, including networking (like IPv6), and then make it all available. Having even a 1TB any limit in a 64-bit subsystem is stupid!

    1. Re:PAE on Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, Windows has PAE. The 4GB limit on 32-bit Windows is a licensing limit, not a technical one.

      Microsoft abused this common misconception to force people into buying more expensive licenses, and then to force upgrades to 64-bit.

      Windows XP RTM did not have this limit, it was added on SP1. I think somebody even hacked some system components to remove the limit again.

    2. Re:PAE on Windows? by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      PAE has a 64GB limit, as it only adds another 4 bits to the 32 address bits. 36 bits = 64GB address space.
      The OS needs to support it.
      Individual processes are still restricted to 32 bits of virtual address space. Windows generally has a 2GB limit, with the upper 2GB reserved for the kernel address space. It can be changed to 3GB but you could run in to problems.

      The limits in the Atom CPU's are physical limits. Their memory controllers can't handle any more.

      Even with PAE, the address space that each process has is still full of ranges it can't use. Blocks of address space are reserved for hardware and drivers.
      I used to run in to that problem all the time, as some applications like Java require contiguous blocks of memory for their heap space. 32bit windows usually means you're limited to around 1.2GB to 1.4GB depending on the hardware on your computer. It's usually video cards that chew up the address space.

      There are processors with different addresses buses for code and data, but they're not very popular.

    3. Re: PAE on Windows? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The kernel always uses PAE on XP SP2 and later because it supports NX/DEP. The limits are for driver compatibility supposedly.

  30. Re:if intel would of gone all 64 at the same time by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

    if intel would of gone all 64 at the same time AMD then maybe 10 would of been 64 bit only. 2012R2 was the start on server.

    It does take awhile. For example, Apple ditched OS support for 32 bit CPUs in 2011, with the release of OS X 10.7 (Lion). But the OS STILL supports 32-bit APPLICATIONS (and a damn-sight more conveniently than Windows, I might add!) to this day, and Apple is only NOW starting to put its foot down about 32-bit Application support, saying that the upcoming High Sierra (macOS 10.13) is "the last version that will run 32-bit Applications 'without compromise' ". Notice that hints at the fact that 32-bit Application support will STILL not be completely gone even in the NEXT-NEXT version of macOS (10.14), even though they will have dropped support for 32-bit CPUs in the OS over SEVEN years prior, and even though the last 32-bit Mac rolled off the assembly line in August 2007, ELEVEN years prior to 10.14's assumed release in mid-2018.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
     

  31. Error messages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think this drive home the point of making GOOD error messages.

    This particular one is terrible.

    Now hold on while I check if my printer is on fire.

  32. solid color blocks lol by bobmajdakjr · · Score: 1

    all the metro type apps like the new shitty control panel ripoff have had solid colour icons for me for over a year now and i have a normal not atom intel.

  33. No longer supported? UNINSTALL THIS APP?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Windows 10 is no longer supported on this PC. Uninstall this app now because it isn't compatible with Windows 10."

    That's an absolutely horrible message and doesn't explain anything correctly. Whoever approved it should be fired. It's worse than the infamous "this program has performed an illegal action and will be shut down." At least that one was technically correct if utterly confusing to the end user.