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Navy Unveils First Active Laser Weapon In Persian Gulf (cnn.com)
schwit1 shares a report from CNN: In the sometimes hostile waters of the Persian Gulf looms the U.S. Navy's first -- in fact, the world's first -- active laser weapon. The LaWS, an acronym for Laser Weapons System, is not science fiction. It is not experimental. It is deployed on board the USS Ponce amphibious transport ship, ready to be fired at targets today and every day by Capt. Christopher Wells and his crew. It costs "about a dollar a shot" to fire, said Lt. Cale Hughes, laser weapons system officer. LaWS begins with an advantage no other weapon ever invented comes even close to matching. It moves, by definition, at the speed of light. For comparison, that is 50,000 times the speed of an incoming ICBM. For the test, the USS Ponce crew launched the target -- a drone aircraft, a weapon in increasing use by Iran, North Korea, China, Russia and other adversaries. In an instant, the drone's wing lit up, heated to a temperature of thousands of degrees, lethally damaging the aircraft and sending it hurtling down to the sea. "It operates in an invisible part of the electromagnetic spectrum so you don't see the beam, it doesn't make any sound, it's completely silent and it's incredibly effective at what it does," said Hughes.
...before the Iranians demonstrate theirs. The Russians already have one. The trouble is that once used, the target has a chance.
It, like nuclear weapons, should be banned.
t doesn't make any sound, it's completely silent and it's incredibly effective at what it does,"
But does it make popcorn?
This is lit. Makes the enemy lit up. Literally.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Who the hell named that ship?! Are the sister ships the USS Wanker and USS Berk?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
> "It operates in an invisible part of the electromagnetic spectrum so you don't see the beam, it doesn't make any sound...
Hopefully, future versions will come in a variety of badass colors, and will make a BWEEM noise.
Let me be the first person to call bullshit on that...
High energy lasers are the only effective way to block incoming Ballistic Missiles from hitting American cities, so the Pentagon should install (high energy lasers) around the edges of North America instead of spending all that money on the Kinetic Interceptor missiles.
This marine clearly knows nothing about basic economics. Maintenance alone will make it a lot more than "a dollar a shot"
And the target used a mirror...
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
But eyes are easier to disable than a steel engine.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Even factoring in maintenance, I bet it's still quite a bit cheaper than a thousand round burst of 20mm Vulcan cannon fire.
My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
Looks like new weapons arise to face Russian and North Korean threats. Actually, probably not really "new" weapons - they were kept hidden in case of a real conflict. The new president in charge decided to exhibit them.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
I assume that the energy delivered to the target decreases, the farther away it is?
So what is it's max effective range on a metal object?
You know, I have one simple request, and that is to have frickin' sharks with laser beams attached to their heads!
in fact, the world's first -- active laser weapon.
No, is not the first active laser weapon.
Russian ships deployed laser weapons since 1980's.
New generation are we must say far more capable :)
And mirrors, that'll fuck em.
But mostly, it will be used to kill protestors near the Washington monument and Wall street.
Sure, but if you just destroy some poor bastard's eyes then another poor bastard will just jump in and continue moving the weapon. Makes more sense to disable the weapon than the operator.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
real cost paper cost is $10000 shot
So you'd rather ban lasers and force armies to stick with bullets, so instead of the chance someone might get blinded, we'll just make sure to kill them entirely?
How the hell does that make sense?
But it only costs $1 per enemy soldier to do it, you can easily outspend any army. We could win even the largest wars for less than a billion dollars.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Are you suggesting we violate The Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons, Protocol IV of the 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons?
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
A weapon you can't spot on radar, fires at the speed of light, and uses an invisible beam wouldn't be detectable at all by enemy forces.
This kind of weapon is perfect for high precision surgical strikes that make the enemy think they have an internal problem with defective weapons. This could have been kept secret for decades to come.
Why in the world would they fuck it up so badly by announcing it to the world? Isn't there ANYONE in the military that THINKS?
Explicitly not, since the word was "chance", in other words it's not designed to blind nor is that a combat function.
Protocol IV on Blinding Laser Weapons prohibits the use of laser weapons specifically designed to cause permanent blindness. The parties to the protocol also agree to not transfer such weapons to any state or non-state entity.[2] The protocol does not prohibit laser systems where blinding is an incidental or collateral effect, but parties that agree to it must take all feasible precautions to avoid such effects.[11][12]
-Wikipedia
So, it would seem that if we target the engine or wheels and someone is blinded as a collateral action there is no issue, similarly if we target the soldier long enough to raise their temperature thousands of degrees and kill them there is no issue...
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
Good point. All we need to do is target a truck driver, and sit back and watch while every other member of the army drags the bodies out of the way to keep that truck moving.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
So you'd rather ban lasers and force armies to stick with bullets,
Throughout history, people have claimed that new more efficient weapons would lead to less killing. Prior to WW1, some people claimed that a future war would have few casualties since a single machine gun could replace 20 soldiers with rifles. It didn't turn out that way.
The best way to keep the peace is to insure that the dominant enforcer of the current world order remains dominant. In 1914, that was Britain, and the challenger was Germany. Today, it is America, and the future challenger may be China.
The laser beam itself, yes ... But what about the tracking/aiming system latency and mount system? The gimbal has to track the trajectory precisely and slew with it. And that gets more complicated if the target is wobbling.
to be clear, Grishnakh put words in my mouth earlier in this thread, so I returned the favor.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
You kill someone, they get a hero's funeral. You blind someone, they need retraining, and they are a continued drain on morale of friends and family. Morale back home is important - all the Vietnam vets who were only injured represented costs in both morale and money that continued long after a funeral would.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Are you suggesting we violate The Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons, Protocol IV of the 1980 Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons?
Looks to me like you are the one suggesting we do that.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
Fair enough, but it seems that the easy way to avoid breaking the treaty is to apply the laser long enough to kill... an interesting side effect of the law; that death is more acceptable than blinding.
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
Article 3
Blinding as an incidental or collateral effect of the legitimate military employment of laser systems, including laser systems used against optical equipment, is not covered by the prohibition of this Protocol.
But since when does the US obey protocols? They signed the Protocol on Child Soldiers, and then violated it with Omar Khadr.
Article 6
3. States Parties shall take all feasible measures to ensure that persons within their jurisdiction recruited or used in hostilities contrary to the present Protocol are demobilized or otherwise released from service. States Parties shall, when necessary, accord to such persons all appropriate assistance for their physical and psychological recovery and their social reintegration.
Putting a 15-year-old into Gitmo and torturing him is a clear violation of the protocol. Considering he was dragged from his home in Canada to Afghanistan at the age of 10, what outcome did anyone expect when he was captured at 15?
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
What good is the laser without that sound?
With my drone armor made of mirrors.
Until a single $1 shot can wipe out the entire middle east at the speed of light, it still has room for improvement.
Should have named it "Hand of Allah".
Translated: "I fought the LaWS and the LaWS won."
Have gnu, will travel.
Can we shoehorn an L in there somewhere so it's the LAWLS?
The stuff you hear about is not the latest generation. The latest generate weapons you don't hear about. I can assure you of this fact as someone who served in the military. I worked with stuff you still haven't heard about.
Here are some of the quotes for the original CNN article by the lieutenant in charge of the system or things not said:
"...we don't worry about range..." The energy of the "shot" delivered should drop with the square of the distance from the target. If the laser's target is moving away from the laser device as it heads towards some destination, it's possible that the energy delivered might not be enough to destroy it.
"All the $40 million system needs to operate is a supply of electricity, which is derived from its own small generator, and has a crew of three. No multi-million-dollar missile, no ammunition at all." and "It's about a dollar a shot" I don't know if the $40 million is the cost per device or the development cost. The three operators also get paid whether they're using the device or sleeping, though they will likely have other duties. Nevertheless, this one shot cost at least $40 million +. The second will result in a cost of $20 million per shot. And, what's the lifetime of the hardware, replacement of end-of-life parts costs and other maintenance costs? It'll take many more than 40 million shots to get down to $1 per shot.
"I can aim that at any particular spot on a target, and disable and destroy as necessary" Moving targets can take a circuitous and rapidly change directions. The aiming system, presumably RADAR or some such, must be able to follow such a target and likely uses a mechanical motor driven gear system for that. Can the aiming system follow that spot during the target's travels?
The article doesn't say whether this uses a pulse laser or a continuous laser. If pulsed, what's the recycle time? A fast moving target may reach its target during the recycle time if that's the case.
How does this system work on targets obscured during rain, fog, cloudy weather or dusty conditions? Light beams become scattered under these conditions and the ability to deliver a destructive energy blast could be hampered.
Of course, the effectiveness of this device will be determined while used under combat conditions with simultaneous multiple, fast moving offensive weapons approaching the laser device. Likely the navy will have several redundant defenses on its valuable targets.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
This ship and laser have been in the gulf and other areas since 2014. What makes this story news now?
Passionately Indifferent
Fair enough, but it seems that the easy way to avoid breaking the treaty is to apply the laser long enough to kill... an interesting side effect of the law; that death is more acceptable than blinding.
It is the intent of the law. In normal warfare, it is preferable to seriously wound an enemy soldier rather than kill them. Your enemy only loses 1 soldier if you kill them, but if you wound a soldier the enemy additionally has to expend resources to take care of them. It's way too easy to do this with laser weapons so it's better for all sides to just agree not to do that.
Enigma
The best way to keep the peace is to insure that the dominant enforcer of the current world order remains dominant.
That only keeps the peace for the people back home... in the land of the dominant enforcer. Everyone else has to deal with war on their doorstep.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Now we just need a few sharks with the lasers.
When I get my hands on those laser-sharks, my fortress will finally be complete!
So .. you go to the Persian gulf... which has not a bloody thing to do with you, entice civil war in middle east ,and then declare every country that is actually in rightfull place in the gulf as adversaries ? you mental blood oil sucking parasitic country.
A laser capable of emitting a beam of pure anti-matter.
Congratulations, you just gave away our replicator project...
",,,50,000 times the speed of an incoming ICBM."
That's nice, but if the missile is moving at an angle to the ship they still need to be able to slew the laser to hit the missile. A missile moves far faster than an aircraft.
The only advantage light-speed has is that there is no need to "lead" the target as it moves through the field of view.
I have been the victim of laser treatment for warts on my foot. In addition to hurting like hell, there was a loud pop or bang each time the laser fired.
So the question is: how is the laser silent?
That only keeps the peace for the people back home... in the land of the dominant enforcer. Everyone else has to deal with war on their doorstep.
It keeps the peace for everyone who accepts the current world order. Today, that is most of the world, which is more peaceful than ever before in history. Even most muslim countries accept American hegemony. The only real challenges to the Pax Americana are in a few Shiite countries (Iran, Syria) and a few non-state entities (ISIS, Hezbollah, the Houthi tribe in Yemen). China may challenge America in the future, but their current activities in the SCS don't amount to much, and are not a direct threat to American interests.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Is that dollar a shot at 50,000 "shots" per second? And I'm sure it's totally useless in the rain, snow, fog, or dust/sand storms. I note that the example targets are very slow moving low altitude and fragile. Having a scientific mind set, what I want to know is how does this compare to the most effective alternative (as well as the lowest cost alternative)?
If it can buy the few second, then it can have an effective strategy to make sure no surface get lit long enough. For example , start spinning so that no surface get those 50 kW dumped long enough to damage the aircraft. And yes, while it reflects, if it reflects 90% , that means your 50 kW laser is only a 5kW laser *effectively*.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
“The aggressor is always peace-loving (as Bonaparte always claimed to be); he would prefer to take over our country unopposed.”
Carl von Clausewitz, On War
Jul. 15, Juche 106 (2017) Saturday
U.S. Troops in S. Korea Can Never Escape Strikes by KPA's Long-range Artillery: Panmunjom Mission
A spokesman for the Panmunjom Mission of the Korean People's Army (KPA) released a statement on Friday over the recent desperate and undisguised moves of the U.S. to provoke a nuclear war against the DPRK and perpetuate its forces' presence in south Korea.
The statement said:
On Tuesday the U.S. imperialist aggressor forces, which moved the Command of their 8th Army present in south Korea to Humphrey Base in Phyongthaek of Kyonggi Province, invited bosses of the south Korean puppet government and military and even human scum including ultra-right conservatives to an "opening ceremony of the new building" of the Command.
The commander of the 8th Army in his "welcoming speech" praised the south Korean lackeys, terming the move an "event demonstrating the solid south Korea-U.S. alliance" and allowing journalists to look round the interior of the base.
As far as the transfer of the U.S. 8th Army Command to Phyongthaek is concerned, the U.S. has pushed ahead with it in collusion with the puppet regime since 2003 in order to move its aggressor forces bases in south Korea to the areas south of the River Han to get rid of the striking range of the KPA's long-range artillery strike.
Lurking behind it is the ulterior design of the U.S. to save its troops only, indifferent to the plight of the south Korean puppet army at stake.
The U.S. imperialists are busy hyping the transfer of their 8th Army Command, the shock brigade that will play a flagship role in igniting a war against the DPRK. This fully revealed the U.S. scenario to perpetuate its military presence in south Korea and stand in confrontation with the DPRK to the end in league with the south Korean puppet warmongers.
The U.S. regards the Korean peninsula as a vantage point of strategic importance where the strength of maritime forces and the strength of land forces are interchanging. It is the century-old Asia policy of the U.S. to occupy the whole peninsula with south Korea as its springboard and thus realize its wild ambition for dominating the world.
It is a tragedy of the U.S. that it is unaware of the tremendous might of the army of the DPRK.
The bases of the U.S. imperialist aggressors in south Korea, the primary targets of the KPA, can never escape the mercilessly annihilating strikes by its long-range artillery, no matter whether they are located in Phyongthaek or in Pusan.
The U.S. imperialist warmongers will never escape the miserable destruction if they persist in foolhardy military confrontation moves in south Korea despite the warnings of the KPA.
Rodong News Team
Yes, exactly! This is why US troops need to come home. The world hates us and we heard their message loud and clear. We are warmongers and our ex leaders including Obama need to be put on trial at The Hague. It's so nice to find people who think alike.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Imagine flying a dive bomb run on a ship and all of the sudden your wing is on fire. You saw no muzzle flash from a gun, no noise was made (assuming you'd hear it anyway), and you saw nothing approach on radar (even bullets will show up on modern radar).
Well, then I suppose this is the end of an era, and attackers will need laser weapons as well, because hurtling projectiles, even fast ones, at an laser-equipped enemy is like storming a machine gun position from a hundred yards with a dagger in your hand. It just won't work.
So, there'll be no dive bombers any more, only flying lasers from now on.
The source is CNN, so probably fake.
Can anybody corroborate this from another source?
the whole world is the enemy, and is threatening America. In fact it's the other way around. The U.S. is good at playing the victim and villifying others to warrant unscrupulous killing for political gain.
It's not Iran, China, North Korea, or anyone else in those waters and part of the world who is the problem, it is you.
An an aside, the Brits were using lasers in the Falklands War, in 1982.
They were mounted on ships, and used to dazzle the pilots of attacking aircraft.
So not destructive weapons, like the laser in this article, but still - real lasers, used in anger.
Anyway, what this article really means is this is the first *publically acknowledged* really destructive military laser in use in the field.
and no "pew-pew" sound? We've been had!
'50,000 times the speed of an incoming ICBM'
No, it's not. This is not at all how it works.
The of course has to point and fire and not miss, which takes time and it's range is only about a mile or so. It's, unfortunately, not that amazing yet.
Really, considering the range is one mile, the speed of the laser is not likely to add up to all that much of an advantage and should be easy the thwart using even just 1980s technology. It's cool and I'm glad it's being 'tested' in active duty because energy weapons are the future, but It's a pretty low end application of what the technology will do.
Interesting. I'm guessing this is response to Iran being dorks. They act like 8 year old boys on the playground instead of adults. I think they are afraid of being accused of having "cooties", whatever those are.
So now we shoot down the dumb Iranian drones they fly at our ships. They are trying to incite an international incident, and the previous president seemed to be okay with paying bribes or ransoms but the new one isn't.
So we blind, ahem dazzle, their pt boat hecklers, and we zap their RC planes. We have to have a firehose to non-violently repel these folks who want to do violence. They are lucky lucky that their opponents are not like them, and that is a sad an contemptible inefficiency on their part. Their much stronger opponent, if he were like them, would just invade and take away their nation, and put their leaders to public humiliation.
I don't really trust the video demonstrating this thing. All I see is targets on a screen, short clips of explosions, etc.....nothing that involves a laser pointed at a stand-still object from start to finish where it is triggered and the target is destroyed. And it seems fishy they never worry about range. Odds are its classified (meaning.....its range sucks and they're too embarrassed to admit it publicly having been a colossal waste of taxpayer money).
And as usual, TFA doesn't mention the "I-word", the biggest terrorist threat - Israel.
Yes, lets make monsters out of Russia, China and Iran and ignore the real problem.
decades ago. Excimer, I believe. Took out the middle third of a Titan II that was standing on a launch pad. Out. As in disappeared and the top third fell onto the bottom third. Pretty impressive even back then.
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
The best way to keep the peace is to insure that the dominant enforcer of the current world order remains dominant.
That only keeps the peace for the people back home... in the land of the dominant enforcer. Everyone else has to deal with war on their doorstep.
Who is at war? If the dominant enforcer is truly dominant, no one will fight them.
This book is an excellent introduction to this topic:
John J. Mearsheimer, The Tragedy of Great Power Politics
The author is a professor of international relations. Many of his talks are on YouTube, and they are fascinating to watch.
In many countries, soliders are cheaper than the weapons and systems on the trucks... And pretty much all wars are wars of resources - who has the deeper resource pool to draw from (unless it's a war run as a political battle, much like Vietnam). Kill a truck driver, they get another one - 1 for 1. Destroy a missile, waste a lot more money and occupy another 100+ people to build the missile replacement.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Metamaterials coating will make laser weapons almost near obsolete, the big problem with lasers is that ligth is weigthless.
It will never be "completely silent" when the guy shooting it is making "pew pew pew" noises with his mouth.
If they have one of the ships with out it, it should be the USS Xena would be Lawless.
Arrives at the speed of light, but delivers damage so slowly that the traditional arsenal will still beat it to the final result.
>>>It operates in an invisible part of the electromagnetic spectrum so you don't see the beam
Uhm... you better hope you don't 'see' the beam - or any of it's reflections. Because if you do, you will never see it again, or anything else for that matter.
Somehow I suspect that this laser exceeds the typical 5mW safety limit :)
Seriously, if this puppy hits anything reflective, how many bystanders is it going to blind?
Uh, yes, that's actually a very strong point of the Geneva convention. Military weapons should have the goal of killing the target rather than maiming the target.
That makes sense because the alternative to is have thousands of troops come back disabled with missing limbs, blinded, lame, ruined lungs, cancerous, poisoned, or diseased. Bluntly, these people are a burden to society, or at least less productive. That might be changing though. Back in the day, if a wounded vet couldn't perform manual labor, they couldn't hold a real job as that was the work required. These days there's more office and mental work. As long as their noggin still works, they're good to go. ...OH SHIT!
Point being that the Geneva convention bans weapons that purposely try and maim soldiers rather than flat-out kill them. And there's reasons that weapon designers would want to maim rather than kill. The wounded are also a burden on the mission. If a weapon cripples a soldier, someone has to come help drag him back to a hospital. Now you've taken TWO soldiers out of the fight.
So anyway, if your cyber-punk novel needs an excuse for everyone to have cyberlimbs and replacement eyes and external lungs, a no-holds-barred brutal war that takes a piss on the Geneva convention is a good justification.
The best way to keep the peace is to insure that the major powers do enough trade that they don't particularly want to piss off their clients/suppliers.
Mutually Assured Destruction has also worked pretty well. Unless either China or the US can stop the other from completely devastating the other if push came to shove, neither dares to take serious military action against the other. We both have militaries just to kick around undeveloped nations.
I guess that makes sense... but gawd warfare sucks balls.
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Yep, dealing with enough of that back home and people might realize how incredibly stupid wars are and how they don't achieve anything except enriching the people that run them.
It's like these conventions are a form of regulation designed to maximize the number of available bodies for future war efforts. Anything that would erode support for war is outlawed.
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
Omar Khadr was not subject to the Protocol on Child Soldiers because he wasn't a soldier, period. The Geneva Conventions define what a soldier is, and non-state, non-uniformed, non-disciplined, uncontrolled murderers of non-combatants like Omar Khadr do not get those protections.
Under the Geneva Conventions, he could have gotten a field court martial and immediate execution. Taking him prisoner, after his violation of the laws of war, was a great courtesy that was not required.
Precision bombs and missiles, better targeting systems, and drones providing 24/7 surveillance for safer strike times have reduced casualties to levels the WWII military would have considered impossible.
So, yes, some weapons do reduce the number of deaths. Nukes did, by preventing large-scale industrial warfare. Precision weapons did, by reducing the number of weapons required to destroy the desired target. Lasers may do so, both by being even more precise than guided missiles and by being able to defend against bombs and missiles more effectively.
I would even suggest that if you target a person with a 50kw laser and only blind them, something is wrong and your laser might be broken.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
It keeps the peace for everyone who accepts the current world order.
So what you're saying is do as you're told and you won't get hurt? Seems like that's what you say to hostages... or slaves.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Did you even read the Protocol? Obviously not! Child soldiers include ANY child under 18 who takes up arms, even if the person is not fighting as a member of the forces of a state. Read Article 4.1:
Article 4
1. Armed groups that are distinct from the armed forces of a State should not, under any circumstances, recruit or use in hostilities persons under the age of 18 years.
Clearly the protocol includes all children under 18 in it's ban on child soldiers.
The responsibilities of the signatories towards ALL child soldiers, whether they are with the forces of an armed state or otherwise:
Article 7
1. States Parties shall cooperate in the implementation of the present Protocol, including in the prevention of any activity contrary thereto and in the rehabilitation and social reintegration of persons who are victims of acts contrary thereto, including through technical cooperation and financial assistance. Such assistance and cooperation will be undertaken in consultation with the States Parties concerned and the relevant international organizations.
2. States Parties in a position to do so shall provide such assistance through existing multilateral, bilateral or other programmes or, inter alia, through a voluntary fund established in accordance with the rules of the General Assembly.
The US's obligation was to treat Khadr as a child soldier, not a soldier. And to consider him a victim of acts contrary to the protocol, specifically Article 4.1 on the use of anyone under 18 not recruited as the soldier of a nation, and not to use anyone under 18 in combat.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
It is not a blinding weapon. It is a killing weapon and any blindness that is causes is secondary to its intended use.