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Elon Musk Says He Has a Green Light To Build a NY-Philly-Baltimore-DC Hyperloop (theverge.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report:Elon Musk just tweeted that his Boring Company tunnel project has just received "verbal [government] approval" to build a hyperloop connecting New York City, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington, DC. While we work to verify his claim, Musk is continuing to tweet more details about the project. The hyperloop, an ultrafast method of travel first developed by Musk in 2013, would only take 29 minutes to travel between New York City and DC, he claims. And it would feature "up to a dozen or more" access points via elevator in each city. Update: Eric Phillips, press secretary for the New York City mayor, tweeted, "This is news to City Hall," adding "The entirety of what we know about this proposal is what's in Mr. Musk's tweet. That is not how we evaluate projects of any scale."
I doubt anyone in the government verbally approved a project that is likely in the hundred of billions...
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
- If the Boring Company is going to dig the tunnel, who will build the hyperloop in the tunnel? Hyperloop One? HTT? Musk? Yet to be decided? - How can the Boring Company be starting projects like this before they've made any progress in reducing the cost of such tunnels? Wouldn't that process of discovery and refinement take 10-15 years? - This implies a big underground Hyperloop station in NYC -- surely that would cost an immense amount of money to build
Next: 'Tunnelling from Godalming to Java'? Jumping the English channel? Eating a cathedral? Summarizing Proost?
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Since there does not a exist a single government official (nor even a single government body) that is authorized to approve such a project, can Musk fanbois finally admit that at least *some* of his hype is unfiltered bullshit?
The hyperloop, an ultrafast method of travel first developed by Musk in 2013
I believe it was proposed to Musk in 2013, not developed. Unless I've been hiding under a rock, to date, the hyperloop has yet to be developed. Show me a functioning deployment scale test setup at the very least if you want to claim it's been "developed" and even then you're still missing the date.
"The hyperloop, an ultrafast method of travel first developed by Musk in 2013"
By "first developed" you presumably mean "applied some minor tweaks and a 'cool' name to a basic concept that's been around for over two centuries"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Certainly Musk might end up being the first person to get a practical vacuum tube transportation network working, but crediting him with developing the idea himself seems a bit much.
This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Multiple access points is the scariest thing to me. That means that while you are going upteen jillion miles per minute, you might accidentally have an elevator in front of you in the tunnel. That makes the security engineering way more complex.
Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
Remember two hours of groping, humiliation and 4th Amendment violation.
Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
So I have some friends who are of the belief that Musk is just a consummate shyster, and I have disagreed, pointing to promising results with SpaceX and favorable sales from Tesla. This kind of talk makes me believe that there might be something to their concerns. I assume "verbal approval" from the gov't means that he asked someone (who knows who) if in theory he could do this and they said "sure", which counts for all of nothing. What this doesn't sound like is the well-established plan of an enterprise that is going to go forward.
They have plenty of public transportation as it it.
We need something to go from the E Coast to W Coast.
Elon Musk cashes in without any public discussion, again.
Based on his track record over the years, I'd think twice before calling bullshit on Musk. He consistently delivers.
This seems to be the one route in the US where a train service can make money so it's no surprise that he *wants* to build this route. If he could bore under existing railway rights of way, it should be a relatively simple project from an administrative standpoint (no worrying about easements et cetera). The tracks would then carry only freight and the number of tracks would be reduced in favor of green space and walking trails. Amtrak would go bankrupt and there would never be a public train service in this country again. I'll let others opine whether this is good or bad but certainly would be the outcome.
Where does the hyperloop take you? Suicide booth?
This will help us send anyone from Baltimore back from DC.
But no president of the US of A will never say something like that.
A president has a value for his word. Because he is trustworthy, reliable, and does consider the implications of each word coming out of his mouth.
If they get it built I hope they expand to include more cities. Gettting to go from Boston to NY quickly would be great. Would much rather jump on this than a plane.
WTF?
I love the optimism and derring-do. But I suspect Elon and his minions have zero experience with East Coast public works unions. Didn't NYC recently open a new subway station that took something like 20 years and a trillion dollars to finish (I exaggerate only slightly)?
Verbal approval from which government official for exactly what?
It could be from the local dog catcher who agreed that he'd do his level best to convince all the animals under his control to help dig the holes?
By the way... VERBAL approval means almost nothing... Heck, WRITTEN approval from the government is about worthless too... This only means that Musk had a conversation with somebody who said something Musk is interpreting to mean they agreed to something about this project. It could be as simple as "Yea, Mr. Musk, that sure sounds like an interesting idea. I hope we can give you approval to do that..."
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
There is no such thing. If it ain't in writing, it ain't approved. Also, which 'government'? I hate to break this to him, but he's talking about digging under several states and cities, all of which have their own local government.
New York City is built upon the North Atlantic Plate, a mass of solid rock extending from Canada and whose nearest boundary is in the mid Atlantic. The skyscrapers of the city have their foundations on that rock. It is difficult to imagine how the Boring machine would penetrate that mass. Certainly not at the affordable cost that has been mentioned here.
While there have been smallish earthquakes in the area, a tunnel through solid rock should be relatively immune to such disturbances. Tunneling through California might be more of a risky venture.
...omphaloskepsis often...
Ah! The original one was up-modded and its promotion down-modded! I guess that I am not the first programmer/engineer who isn't too good at promoting things :)
Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
Why isn't this modded +5 funny? In the times we are living in. Pshhh
A verbal green light means almost nothing---some guy with some authority somewhere likes it. It doesn't give Musk so much as a construction permit.
Don't mistakte this for a lack of enthusiasm. I like the Hyperloop concept, and American transit desperately needs modernization.
But if I had to bet on whether this will be in service within 5-10 years... I would have to bet against it.
Musk needs three states and DC to agree---on top of the feds remaining unobtrusive (EPA, DOT, and DHS in particular). I hope he has either luck or contacts.
---
According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
tunnel or wall?
Approval needed from: Federal DOT; 6 states; 17 counties; numerous cities; hundreds of elected officials. Definitely happening rapidly. @yfreemark
Why bother? You seem committed to ignoring and belittling people that poke at the tissue-thin objections you raise.
There are still numerous problems to be solved - just not the ones you're pointing out.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Fortunately, there is almost nothing underground in NYC.
except for all of the subway lines and the water mains and the sewage drains and the utility cables and the many tunnels to NJ and other boroughs
I expect that the original comment was intended as sarcastic.
On /. it is sometimes hard to tell, but: whooosh.
The last time a hyper loop thread came up I learned some things about it from links someone posted about the problems associated with establishing and maintaining a vacuum vessel need for this application. The explosive energy in such a system is indeed daunting. Even the most trivial bit of sabotage, let alone run-of-the-mill failures can set it off.
Since then I haven't seen any convincing answers to those issues. You just don't need to be very advanced in physics to understand them. Does anyone here have any explanations or links to explanations about how this problem can be addressed?
I'll admit to being something of a Musk fanboi but I am not willing to throw all sense to the wind because of it. I don't want a flamewar I just would like to know because if there is an answer it is well outside my intuition.
For people to finally see through the reality distortion field around this guy... there is exactly 0 chance of a hyperloop being built to connect those cities any time soon.
While we're at it, there is 0 chance he's going to colonize Mars in his lifetime, and 0 chance Tesla is going to dislodge the major car makers too.. they might make it as a battery company, I guess.
Go ahead and mod me to oblivion.
To take a ride on Blaine the Mono!
Wheeeeee!!
ignoring and belittling people
I have never and will ever do such a thing. I do respect every single person enough to not ignore them unless under extreme circumstances (belittling?! I am not even sure that this is a real behaviour; for me, it is just something which certain people say as an attack to those disagreeing with them. I haven't in my whole life tried to belittle anyone, no idea how could I even start to do such a thing. I have met many people having really weird behaviours towards me, not sure if trying to belittle me, certainly nobody has ever succeeded). Hyperloop-related chats have proven to be very prone to such conditions and that's why I have plainly decided to remain passive. Your short post already includes a good sample of the problems which I am referring: "tissue-thin objections you raise" (?!) Tremendous engineering problems (beyond tremendous as far as haven't ever been tried) are tissue-thin for you?! There you have it: an abstract absolute critic to all what I think about this against I cannot say anything?!
Any objective watcher should know immediately that there is no possible understanding here. I do accept that, plainly say so and wait for results (-> they would certainly prove me wrong). You don't respect my position and rely on the aforementioned absolute, abstract critic forcing me to answer and here it comes the infinite loop to nowhere once again.
The reality is very simple: this is an abstract-assumptions-based project where most of people supporting it easily relies on said abstractions. I am pretty much the contrary to all this. I do accept that, why you cannot do it too? Why talking when no understanding would ever happen? Why getting involved in the kind of discussion which I don't like and whose point I cannot even understand? But this doesn't mean that I have to be afraid of having an opinion or tolerate always unmotivated critics.
Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
I prefer the version "I have/will never do such a thing" because it is less confusing.
Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
So it is like a series of tubes?
Been there, done that.
"I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
Why would you want to connect up these three bad neighborhoods? To complete the crime trifecta?
It is easier to get approval to send men to Mars than it does to build a tunnel from DC to NY.
The whoe thing doesn't need to be underground. Also, underwater option, along the coast?
Japan would like for SCMaglev to get the DC-NYC route. Japan has been working on the SCMaglev since the 70s, and finished its development only a few years ago. SCMaglev is going to become the maglev tech of the premier Tokyo-Osaka hsr line. Hyperloop was only announced a few years ago.
Commuter flights from NYC to DC are 1 hour 10 minutes, tarmac to tarmac, this service will cut that to 29 minutes - but it will retain all the TSA delays, ticketing issues, etc - this will not be an interstate subway system where you just walk on/walk off...
Of course, if it has to stop in Philly and Baltimore, each stop adds at least 15 minutes to the travel time, and there goes your time savings.
Ken
It is easier to get approval to send men to Mars than it does to build a tunnel from DC to NY.
Space travel doesn't cross state lines.
Ken
Let's make this an apples to apples comparison:
It takes less approval to send a man from DC to NY than it does to send them to Mars.
Of course Elon Musk didn't get verbal approval for the entire track. Perhaps he had the merest hint of a suggestion from someone (DOT? Two people on city councils at either end?).
Getting actual approval from all the different cities, states, counties, and regulatory bodies involved will be an enormous undertaking. The fastest way to get this sort of discussion happening at all of these levels is probably to... force people involved to deny it.
A single tweet and suddenly you have multiple nationwide news articles and, most critically, everyone responsible for approval at every level talking about it. They're talking about it to nail down who said, but they're talking about it. As are all their constituents and peers.
The largest hurdle when dealing with so many people in authority is simply tendency toward inaction. With a tweet, he has solved that. Forcing people to say "he won't be approved without following the process" removes the option of sitting on it silently whether out of apathy or to gain leverage.
True, I once got verbal consent to DVR an NFL football game, rather than the express written consent I needed.
Damned game didn't record.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I've rarely seen a double negative so aptly placed !!!!
All it takes is one federal law saying that any tunnel that crosses state lines and runs at least x feet below existing improvements is ONLY under federal authority because it it interstate commerce.
Then that law has to be upheld before the Supreme Court of the United States once.
That's it.
I think Mr. Kushner (as Director of the Office of American Innovation) has the authority to say that President Donald Trump and a vast majority of the Republican Party would support such legislation and court rulings.
I read a statement he could build a line from SF to LA for $6B. Considering it cost $4B for Seattle to build a 2-mile tunnel (including the time lost when the boring machine broke), I fail to see how he could achieve such a reduction in cost. Hell, the Channel Tunnel cost about $1B a mile in today's dollars. $6B wouldn't get him from SF to San Jose.
The early tweet is a rational move by Elon to apply social pressure by tweeting early. Now public officials can carry the burden of shame - and possibly being elected out of office - for blocking it. The early tweet seems 'stupid' to the government officials and people who bow to bureaucracy and bow to forced collectivism of the NIMBY-inspired functional innovation haters. But the early tweet is actually part of a rational business plan.
It is fascinating to me that *by far* the biggest obstacle to this innovation is government. This reaction of 'City Hall' to the tweet begs to be compared to events in California, where the people have been deceived by the High Speed Rail Initiative. There, the State of California has an actual vested interest in *squelching* this innovation or anything that looks like it.
The close-minded arrogance of the authors of the California High Speed Rail Bill will be costing California for decades, and for nothing. The Bill could have been a written well, open to back-end funding of financially and technologically sustainable solutions that had actually been built and had proven themselves, whatever those technologies were. But instead the Bill became a tool of political zealots who decided they knew best which 200 year old technology they wanted because it resembled how the French did it. Idiots.
It will be fascinating to see where Hyperloop thrives first: outside the U.S.A., or inside the U.S.A.
I see the government and bureaucrats and NIMBY-ists clutching to their status quo and laugh. I wish they'd grow up and enjoy the excitement and higher quality of life that innovation like this brings.
Then I guess we should update the summary to more accurately reflect that
Anyone can build an underground tunnel. If you get consent/permission you can also build a tunnel through multiple jurisdictions. Eventually, if Hyperloop catches up, TSA will start checking people using tunnels. Because the terrorists can blow them up? TSA and the current state thinking as Hyperloop are just not compatible. TSA will find a way to force you to wait 2 hours so that you could travel from DC to NYC in 30 minutes.
Emperor was strolling along a river, stubbed his toe, "damn it!" So it was said, and so it was built.
mfwright@batnet.com
Everyone retweets it gleefully.
This whole twitter thing is a rich mans wet dream for staying relevant - FOR FREE!
Believe in Elon Musk, it's people like him that push us forward, not that they themselves might provide that, but push others to beat them to it. Think, space race.
Humanity must hit the next p.diagm shift, we can not sustain and grow as we are now.
Push on!
Is anyone else finally convinced that Elon Musk is probably not well? This goes beyond simply being egotistical, the man is legitimately deluded.
If it is at the end of the tunnel, and quickly moving backwards, it is better to bail out now!
All of the high moderated points is almost all negative. We have a guy that wants to make the world better and all you guys does is complain. I know things are tough in the US economy, but still. Elon and his team has managed to build self landing rockets! ZOMG! Self landing rockets! So a long hole in the ground should not be that big of a challenge. He is a guy that is experienced working with entrenched entities in the government. We see this with Tesla and the dealerships. So it is very exciting to see if he manages to pull it off! I think he will do it. Cheer up slashdot! We live in a wonderous time.
and the billions and billions of dollars of government subsidies that let him sell a luxury auto below cost along with investors willing to lose money for a long time on the off chance it all pans out.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
It's because the technology exists to go to Mars. No so much for this hyperloop.
Everyone wants to feel important, and also everyone is important, so Eric just wants others to recognize his importance.
I think it would be a good idea to have two types of hyper-loop vehicle, a car-sled and a train car (for higher density foot traffic). Hyperloop is good except it needs multiply redundant systems to prevent accidents in the event of all kinds of equipment failure.
Imagine such a vehicle. You'd have to be strapped in if they expect to get from NYC to Washington in 29 minutes AND make stops in between. 226 miles, say it's 250, 30 minutes. That's airliner speeds. Now if they stop too? Hold on to your hat!