FTC Probing Allegations of Amazon's Deceptive Discounting (reuters.com)

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FTC Probing Allegations of Amazon's Deceptive Discounting (reuters.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Friday July 21, 2017 @01:00AM from the deceptive-discounting dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: As part of its review of Amazon's agreement to buy Whole Foods, the Federal Trade Commission is looking into allegations that Amazon misleads customers about its pricing discounts, according to a source close to the probe. The FTC is probing a complaint brought by the advocacy group Consumer Watchdog, which looked at some 1,000 products on Amazon's website in June and found that Amazon put reference prices, or list prices, on about 46 percent of them. An analysis found that in 61 percent of products with reference prices, Amazon's reference prices were higher than it had sold the same product in the previous 90 days, Consumer Watchdog said in a letter to the FTC dated July 6. Amazon said in a statement that Consumer Watchdog's study was "deeply flawed." "The conclusions the Consumer Watchdog group reached are flat out wrong," Amazon said. "We validate the reference prices provided by manufacturers, vendors and sellers against actual prices recently found across Amazon and other retailers."

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They do what every other retail store does... by PablosBrain · 2017-07-21 01:07 · Score: 5, Insightful

They do what every other retail store does for discounts.
1. Re:They do what every other retail store does... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 02:10 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  you ain't shitting any. the local grocery store chain does this in spades... ridiculous high "regular prices" published in ads that are way higher than the actual "shelf price" ever was... and when they do follow the "letter of the law", they mark up items, waaaay up, the week before a % off sale which ends up being close (and sometimes even still higher) to what the old shelf price was. fucking crooks, the whole lot of them. one thing is for certain, those bastards will never violate our state's minimum markup law (3-6 percent depending on sourcing.. wholesale or direct). their shenanigans allows walmart to price higher locally, too, and maintain a smaller selection than the store 30 miles away. ready for amazon to take over since we're too small a market to actually get brick-and-mortar competition.
2. Re: They do what every other retail store does... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 02:45 · Score: 0
  
  SALE!!!
  5 for $10!!! ...
  1 for $1 normally not on sale.l
3. Re:They do what every other retail store does... by Richard_at_work · 2017-07-21 16:30 · Score: 1
  
  It's even got a name - price establishment.
Flat out something by arth1 · 2017-07-21 01:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

"Prices found" does not equate to sales prices.
Some countries with actual consumer protection requires "before" prices to be a price that had multiple actual sales to unaffiliated entities, not just what it was announced at or sold internally at.
If I announce my fridge for sale for $50,000, and next week for $150, that's not a $49,850 discount.
1. Re:Flat out something by bluefoxlucid · 2017-07-21 01:38 · Score: 2
  
  Amazon usually shows list price with a strike-through, and then their price. Standard practice in the U.S. For some items, they show a stricken list price, a stricken retail price, and the current low-point price.
  
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2. Re:Flat out something by thegreatbob · 2017-07-21 01:43 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I've always worked with the 'list price' in any context as follows:
  
  Is vendor selling it at list price? Don't buy from them.
  
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  There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
3. Re:Flat out something by rickb928 · 2017-07-21 01:50 · Score: 1
  
  Great to meet another Android user. Welcome my friend.
  
  --
  deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
4. Re:Flat out something by xxxJonBoyxxx · 2017-07-21 01:56 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  >> Some countries with actual consumer protection requires "before" prices to be a price that had multiple actual sales to unaffiliated entities, not just what it was announced at or sold internally at.
  
  This is also the case in some US states. For example, Los Angeles has figured out how to use California law on advertised discounts to chase down major retailers:
  http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-retailers-lawsuit-20161207-story.html
  
  Given this announcement from FTC, I have to wonder if the 2016 round of unlawful discount litigation was just the preseason; now everything's in place for attorneys to tap directly into Amazon's revenue stream.
5. Re:Flat out something by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 02:25 · Score: 1
  
  The easiest way to write a good regulation about this would be simple for anyone familiar with statistics: The MAXIMUM price that can be advertised as the basis of any current sale or discount is the modal price when calculated over all sales of the same product in the 90 days prior to the advertisement.
6. Re:Flat out something by Solandri · 2017-07-21 03:16 · Score: 2
  
  Basically it sounds like Consumer Watchdog wants Amazon to incorporate camelcamelcamel's price history directly into Amazon. While that would be convenient (I have the extension on my main browser, but not on every browser like my phone), I don't see why Amazon should be singled out with this requirement when no other store has to do it.
  
  The tools are out there. It's up to the buyer to use them. Part of the free market is that people more concerned about saving money by cross-checking prices (poor people who take the time to research and inform themselves) end up paying lower prices. Their purchases are effectively subsidized by people who don't care about price (rich people) and people who are too lazy to do price comparisons before buying; these people pay the regular price and help stores make up their margins so they can hold sales that get the well-informed poor shoppers to buy.
  
  If Consumer Watchdog gets their way and basically forces Amazon to give a price history of every item, the result is not going to be what they hope it will be. The end of a sale would then result in a drop-off in purchases as everyone realizes they just missed a sale, and decide not to buy just because of the price increase, not because they don't like the current price. Consequently, the only way for Amazon to maintain their margins will be to hold fewer discounts and sales. Their average price on an item will be the same, but the delta between high and low will become smaller - no more sales, just the occasional market price correction. Poor people (who do their price research) will on average end up paying more than they used to, rich and lazy people who didn't care and just one-click purchased will on average end up paying less than they used to.
7. Re:Flat out something by arth1 · 2017-07-21 03:24 · Score: 1
  
  This is also the case in some US states. For example, Los Angeles has figured out how to use California law on advertised discounts to chase down major retailers
  Yes, but unfortunately, there are loopholes, like:
  My store sets a ridiculously high sales price on a TV.
  Me and my wife buys one each, then return them a couple of weeks later for a full refund. In fact, some buyers do this on a regular basis to get a new gadget every few weeks. Most stores hate those customers, but some stores welcome a low number, because they can be used to fix the "before" price. Some sucker will buy the open box item at just 10% above market price, because it's a 30% "discount".
  For this, a clause that returned items do not count is needed.
  I have two stores.
  I tell store A to buy a ridiculously high priced TV from store B.
  I tell store B to buy a ridiculously high priced TV from store A.
  That's why the unaffiliated clause needs to be added.
  For the second case, it gets even worse if the stores then can sell the same goods "at a loss", and count that loss against their taxes.
8. Re:Flat out something by arth1 · 2017-07-21 03:28 · Score: 2
  
  Basically it sounds like Consumer Watchdog wants Amazon to incorporate camelcamelcamel's price history directly into Amazon. While that would be convenient (I have the extension on my main browser, but not on every browser like my phone), I don't see why Amazon should be singled out with this requirement when no other store has to do it.
  
  In some countries, Amazon has to do the equivalent. So they already have systems in place that are working.
  So this boils down to an argument of "it's unfair if I can't be deceptive in the US when others can". I don't think that's a good argument, and that Amazon would be better off in the long run supporting that everybody should be held to high standards.
9. Re:Flat out something by arth1 · 2017-07-21 03:34 · Score: 2
  
  Basically it sounds like Consumer Watchdog wants Amazon to incorporate camelcamelcamel's price history directly into Amazon. While that would be convenient (I have the extension on my main browser, but not on every browser like my phone), I don't see why Amazon should be singled out with this requirement when no other store has to do it.
  
  That can still be gamed.
  What if the CEOs of two stores in, say, Delaware, each have the store buy a thousand $3 fidget spinners at $30 from each other? When they then sell them for $9.99, reduced from $30, they take the $20.01 off as losses against the $27 gain from the first sale.
10. Re:Flat out something by bluefoxlucid · 2017-07-21 04:49 · Score: 2
  
  Best Buy tends to sell above MSRP. This was surreal when the price of a refrigerator I wanted was $1,300 refurbished, $2,200 new Home Depot, $3,000 MSRP, and $3,300 Best Buy.
  
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11. Re:Flat out something by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 04:58 · Score: 0
  
  gvien that the Washington Post has been critical of the current administration I wouldn't count out petty revenge?
12. Re:Flat out something by plague911 · 2017-07-21 05:38 · Score: 1
  
  "So this boils down to an argument of "it's unfair if I can't be deceptive in the US when others can"."
  I disagree, that is a great argument. I love the idea of solving problems. However on the rare occasion when we choose to persecute individual entities we give semi-legitimate examples of the government picking "winners and losers" for the conservative hyperbole
13. Re:Flat out something by tlhIngan · 2017-07-21 05:39 · Score: 1
  
  The tools are out there. It's up to the buyer to use them. Part of the free market is that people more concerned about saving money by cross-checking prices (poor people who take the time to research and inform themselves) end up paying lower prices. Their purchases are effectively subsidized by people who don't care about price (rich people) and people who are too lazy to do price comparisons before buying; these people pay the regular price and help stores make up their margins so they can hold sales that get the well-informed poor shoppers to buy.
  
  FYI, the people who pay "regular" price aren't necessarily rich. It can very well be the discount that gets offered is a pittance compared to the effort of shopping around.
  If the item costs $30, I'm not going to lose much sleep if I buy it for that and find out it's $25 somewhere else. Sure I could've saved $5, but maybe that requires another hour of shopping around. Is that worth $5? I can't say. (This applies especially so if the savings are from say, Amazon third party sellers, or from dodgier sites). And if I already have it, well, by the time you try returning it (gas to drive to post office, getting it repackages, etc), you eat up all the savings anyways.
  It's like the people who drive 20 miles out of the way to save a couple of cents per gallon of gas. Or line up for hours waiting to fill up because the cheap station has it 30 cents cheaper than everyone else.
14. Re:Flat out something by david_thornley · 2017-07-21 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  Part of the free market is
  
  availability of information. Information asymmetry, which is what you're advocating, makes free markets worse.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
15. Re: Flat out something by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 12:55 · Score: 0
  
  Plus extended warranty.
Normal by Mike+Frett · 2017-07-21 01:17 · Score: 2

This is normal. During and after the Holidays, the so-called discounts are actually higher than on regular days. I live by the rule: Never buy discounted Items.
1. Re:Normal by bluefoxlucid · 2017-07-21 01:34 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I keep hearing this from crazy people, and it keeps not being true. I've worked in retail, but that doesn't matter; what matters is I've actually looked at prices for things, piled up loads and loads of shit I wanted to buy but didn't want to go $4,000 into credit card debt for, and so have frequently been watching when the prices drop for holiday sales and other bullshit.
  The truth is they think a $5 flash drive that actually costs $15 and usually retails for $20 will get you in the store to buy a $500 TV that actually costs $400 and is marked down from its typical price of $529.99. They're still operating on the same NOP margin (in retail, that's often like 5%-8%); they're using seasonal hype and a loss-leader model to induce you to buy more so they can profit by volume.
  
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2. Re:Normal by AmiMoJo · 2017-07-21 01:37 · Score: 2
  
  It's best to use a service like CamelCamelCamel to view previous prices. They offer email notifications if a price drops below a threshold you set too, but be aware that they sell the thresholds you set to third parties. Not your email address or identity, just the threshold, so sometimes you will find that companies offer products at the exact price you wanted after setting one up.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
3. Re:Normal by magusxxx · 2017-07-21 01:50 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I think Mike is talking about what some major chains used to do with jewelry sales during Christmas. They'd have a pin for $100. They'd raise the price to $200. And then have a 50% off sale. In several states this is majorly illegal and considered fraud. The TV news program 20/20 did a piece on this back in the 1980's. A year later they did a follow-up and again the some of the same retailers were caught. Before this they were threatened with 'fines per discovery'. After this they were fined with 'fines per instance'. So if they sold 50 of them in one store, they'd be fined 50x not just once. Now with the internet we have this crap happening all over again.
  
  --
  Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
4. Re:Normal by mysidia · 2017-07-21 02:02 · Score: 1
  
  Is there a service that will just offer me an XML feed of prices from major retailers queryable by UPC Code, or some other unique identifier, so I can write my own daily query on a bucketload of products i'm interested in, and use my own threshold scripts and not reveal my thresholds to the service?
5. Re:Normal by thegreatbob · 2017-07-21 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  Checking historical prices is always prudent; hiking prices before a "sale" is basically ubiquitous in retail. e.g. Radio Shack near me is currently disposing of inventory from stores that are closing; you could see the old price tags behind the new ones, and they had hiked the prices a good 30-50% before applying discounts. The end result was still abnormally good value for Radio Shack (and $1/ea for stuff from the parts bins!), I just wish retailers would give a straight price instead of playing games.
  
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  There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
6. Re:Normal by AmiMoJo · 2017-07-21 02:27 · Score: 1
  
  There isn't any profit in that so probably not... But you could maybe write a scraper and make your own.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
7. Re:Normal by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 03:11 · Score: 1
  
  Checking historical prices is always prudent
  Fun fact: Amazon explicitely disallows price histories if they're being used in a comparison with other retailers.
8. Re:Normal by bluefoxlucid · 2017-07-21 05:47 · Score: 1
  
  Uh, no, it's not illegal in several states; the Federal Trade Commission has an entire publication on shit like that describing it as extremely illegal.
  It's still legal to compare to the MSRP. This isn't "happening all over again"; it's a constant, and keeps popping up in fringe publications as quasi-tabloids here and there try to pawn off their supposed major discovery that musical instruments, cars, and major appliances are sold with "fake discounts" off an MSRP that nobody actually charges.
  
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9. Re:Normal by Obfuscant · 2017-07-21 06:07 · Score: 1
  
  I live by the rule: Never buy discounted Items.
  Here's a good rule, too: don't buy something if you think the price you are asked to pay is too high.
  Under that rule, it doesn't matter what "list" or "regular" price a company puts on a product, it only matters what price they are asking you to pay right now. That means you might buy a fridge from A that was displayed as "regular price: $10,000, now only $1000" instead of from B that says "regular price: $3000, now only $1500".
  What the FTC actually needs to look into is Amazon's practice of discounting the price of an item if the buyer chooses "no hurry" shipping. That makes the "free two day delivery" that they sell as part of Prime membership a fraud. If it is cheaper to buy with "no hurry" shipping than with "free" shipping, the free shipping isn't. That's much more criminal than showing a meaningless "regular price". People aren't paying the "regular price", but they have already paid $99 for a Prime membership that gets them free shipping that Amazon isn't delivering.
10. Re:Normal by omnichad · 2017-07-21 07:04 · Score: 1
  
  That makes the "free two day delivery" that they sell as part of Prime membership a fraud.
  No, charging for a Prime Membership makes "'free' two day delivery" a fraud. Discounting slow shipping is double-dipping.
11. Re:Normal by Obfuscant · 2017-07-21 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  No, charging for a Prime Membership makes "'free' two day delivery" a fraud.
  Free two day delivery is a fraud all by itself since it usually isn't two days, but that option is what you buy when you pay for Prime membership. What you are saying is like claiming that getting access to the United red carpet club after paying for a club membership is a fraud. It's what you are paying for.
  The fraud is that you're paying for "free" two day shipping as part of the prime membership, and then being charged more for the item when you use two day instead of slow boat.
12. Re:Normal by omnichad · 2017-07-21 07:32 · Score: 1
  
  but that option is what you buy when you pay for Prime membership
  You do not buy free shipping. Free shipping is free. Prime gets you discounted shipping paid on an annual basis - calling it free in any way is fraud.
13. Re:Normal by david_thornley · 2017-07-21 08:24 · Score: 1
  
  If I pay for Amazon Prime, then each thing I buy must get to me in two days and must not cost me extra money per sale to do so.
  Only one polysyllabic word in the sentence, and that's a proper noun. Clear enough now?
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
14. Re:Normal by omnichad · 2017-07-21 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  That's not how free works. That's called discounted and prepaid.
15. Re:Normal by drinkypoo · 2017-07-21 09:29 · Score: 2
  
  Harbor Freight is in the middle of paying a settlement and is probably about to have to pay another settlement for their deceptive bullshit "compare to" prices, where they compare their shitty tools (some of which are still worth buying, mind you) to the MSRP of some Snap-On or Honda product which is provably better than their product in literally every way. And guess what? They're still doing it. I just found out about the settlement, there's two weeks to file, and I get ten bucks if I do. I probably will, just on principle. I don't know if I've actually been materially harmed by the practice, but it does annoy me every time I look at the ads because it makes it that much more difficult to find the items which are actually meaningfully discounted.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
16. Re:Normal by magusxxx · 2017-07-21 17:54 · Score: 1
  
  We're not talking about MSRP. We're talking about advertising a fake sale. Plain and simple. According to mouseprint.org, "Many moons ago, MrConsumer went after Mattress Discounters while at the Massachusetts Attorney General’s Office for this very practice. When they had a “buy the mattress, get the boxspring free” sale, they just doubled the price of the mattress in order to give away the boxspring free. We collected a cool million in penalties and mattress donations to the homeless."
  
  --
  Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
17. Re:Normal by david_thornley · 2017-07-24 03:31 · Score: 1
  
  In some cases, it was paid by Amazon. The first book I ordered from Amazon was in my hands less than twenty-four hours from placing the order, which means that Amazon upgraded the shipping to impress a new customer. Right now, my wife pays money for Amazon Prime, which we use for shipping and video. There is no marginal cost to ship anything in two days. In neither case did people go to special effort out of the goodness of their hearts, but if we can't call that "free" the term loses its useful meaning.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
JCPenny by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 01:19 · Score: 0

When I'm forced to go into that monstrosity, I at least try and play the mental game of 'Find the time not on sale'. I don't think I've ever won, even with only one player :).
Really though, why target amazon with the worlds oldest marketing scheme? It's not as if this is some undemonstrated behaviour.
I really shop by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 01:27 · Score: 1

I really shop around and compare prices. There are many times when it's actually cheaper to order a book from my local Barnes and Noble than buy it from Amazon - even if I can get free shipping. And B&N gets it to me in 3 days and I just pay list price - the price printed on the back cover of the book.
There are better stores than Amazon for electronics, computers and what have you.
Of all the different things I have purchased on Amazon, I have never seen what the complaint is accusing them of.
On the other hand, Amazon does go apeshit with the airline type of pricing. Prices fluctuate. Penn tennis balls are a great example. Sometimes they are $29 for a 12 pack and sometimes they are $22 - yes, both prices are being offered by Amazon.com, LLC. No, I am not confusing different prices from different sellers.
Amazon messes around with prices like that. No matter, I play their silly ass game and I have found ways around it.
Amazon Prime by pnutjam · 2017-07-21 01:28 · Score: 5, Insightful

They should really investigate Amazon Prime, they advertise "free" shipping, but inflate prices to account for shipping.

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1. Re:Amazon Prime by bluefoxlucid · 2017-07-21 01:37 · Score: 1
  
  You pay the inflated prices even if you're not a Prime member. It's fair game by FTC rules. I've noticed various retailers also will sell the same heavy thing for $20 + $23 shipping, or for $43 + $2.99 shipping. Needless to say, I am not happy about all the shipping I paid on my 50 pound bag of sodium percarbonate.
  So yeah, we're aware Amazon charges higher prices to offset shipping costs. They just do it for everyone, regardless of shipping method or membership.
  
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2. Re:Amazon Prime by beelsebob · 2017-07-21 01:58 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  At least they're not quite as blatant as Walmart, who advertise free shipping, but offer you a $5 discount if you pick it up yourself.
3. Re:Amazon Prime by mysidia · 2017-07-21 02:05 · Score: 1
  
  Great, so now the only benefit of prime is shipping speed?
  As a prime member; I feel cheated if they're raising prices on the items.
  Maybe it's time I started shopping around at many online retailers for most purchases like I used to.
4. Re:Amazon Prime by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 02:09 · Score: 0
  
  You would have spent less money on shipping ($2.99) if you paid $43 instead of paying $20 for the item, and $23 for the shipping.
  It's simple math, buddy: $2.99 is LESS THAN $23
  I'm so glad I'm not a moron like you. At least I am smart enough (unlike you) to know a deal when I see one.
5. Re:Amazon Prime by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 02:33 · Score: 0
  
  Does anyone still actually believe "free" is free? It's ALWAYS baked into the costs. If you're lucky they have a lot of sales to spread that cost around in so it doesn't raise the price that much, but if you're getting something for free, the reality is you're just paying for it in the total price.
6. Re:Amazon Prime by Gilgaron · 2017-07-21 02:58 · Score: 1
  
  It does make it easier to compare prices, though, since otherwise different online stores have different shipping costs for the same items and it can be hard to see the shipping cost without nearly checking out on some sites.
7. Re:Amazon Prime by Fly+Swatter · 2017-07-21 03:06 · Score: 1
  
  When they started prime, it seemed obvious to me all they were doing was offering faster shipping and waiving the minimum purchase requirement of $25 to get 'free' shipping. They added streaming later, so there is that.
  Funny thing is free super save shipping is back down to a $25 purchase again, so unless you buy low cost items every day or need it in 2-3 days, prime is useless except for their streaming service.
8. Re: Amazon Prime by guruevi · 2017-07-21 03:31 · Score: 1
  
  Free or cheap shipping doesn't exist. The effect is however psychological. You can't ship any package sub-$5, with Prime you pre-pay some of the cost and Amazon can thus give you better deals. I've found the difference between Prime and non-Prime accounts is usually in favor of the Prime account.
  
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9. Re:Amazon Prime by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 04:02 · Score: 0
  
  Anyone else get screwed with AMZN_US shipping? There's thousands of complaints about Amazons in house shipping that uses independent drivers who misdeliver (or not at all) then enter false info on the tracking.
10. Re:Amazon Prime by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 04:14 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  They also "guarantee" two-day shipping, but often don't meet the guarantee. The customer's recourse when this happens is to have the price of their shipping refunded, which is $0.
11. Re:Amazon Prime by mysidia · 2017-07-21 04:29 · Score: 1
  
  so unless you buy low cost items every day or need it in 2-3 days, prime is useless except for their streaming service.
  That's a little depressing, though. On the other hand, I perhaps spoke too soon about there being no other benefit.
  It does automatically give me the Twitch Prime status, which eliminates ads from the platform..
  I doubt the video streaming service justifies the cost. They're no NetFlix, and even NetFlix misses vital titles.
12. Re:Amazon Prime by TheRealMindChild · 2017-07-21 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  I consider that totally different. The discounted pickup is because A) they didn't have to use valuable shelf space in the store, and B) It got shipped on a truck bound for the store, using up space in the truck that would normally not get filled.
  
  --
  
  "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
13. Re:Amazon Prime by bluefoxlucid · 2017-07-21 05:52 · Score: 1
  
  Prime Video has more titles and lets you keep (and even download) what you buy. For people who rewatch mostly the same stuff, Prime Video is cheaper than Netflix + Prime. If you're getting the 2-day shipping from Amazon Prime anyway and not constantly watching new things, or just an intermittent viewer, it's not worth a Netflix sub.
  I bought all of Babylon 5, Deep Space 9, RWBY, and Sherlock over like 6 years. I spent as much as I would on 2 years of Netflix. I also don't watch TV constantly.
  
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14. Re:Amazon Prime by Obfuscant · 2017-07-21 06:11 · Score: 1
  
  At least they're not quite as blatant as Walmart, who advertise free shipping, but offer you a $5 discount if you pick it up yourself.
  I'm sorry, but I think it is just as blatant for Amazon to advertise "free two day shipping" on a product, but then give an effective 50% discount if you use "no rush" shipping. That's after you've paid for a Prime membership to get the "free" two day shipping.
  (Yes, a $10 item had "free two day", but they'd do free "no rush" shipping and throw in a $5 certificate for some other product.)
15. Re: Amazon Prime by adolf · 2017-07-21 07:37 · Score: 1
  
  Walmart, these days, is also offering a discount on things that are already on the shelf at the store if you buy them online and have them pull them from stock for you, vs selecting it yourself.
  
  --
  Kid-proof tablet..
16. Re:Amazon Prime by beelsebob · 2017-07-21 09:22 · Score: 1
  
  Yes - in other words, you pay more for the service that delivers it for you, and you only.
  There's no denying that it's cheaper for the store to do it in the bulk-handling way, that doesn't mean that shipping is "free" though. They absolutely are charging more for the case where they deliver it to your door, just framing it as "have a discount if you don't want delivery to your door".
17. Re: Amazon Prime by drinkypoo · 2017-07-21 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  Will they give me a discount if I don't wear a trenchcoat, a hat and dark glasses and cover my license plate with mud before I'm seen anywhere near a fucking Wal-Mart?
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
18. Re:Amazon Prime by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 10:43 · Score: 0
  
  Walmart gets a bigger discount from FedEx to deliver to the store vs to the customers house. I deliver for fedex express and I'm always going to the local walmart with peoples walmart.com orders. I mean, you can't confuse what it's for when it says "WALMART #222 - SITE TO STORE, PICKUP CUSTOMER BOB DOLE" on the label.
19. Re:Amazon Prime by reboot246 · 2017-07-21 11:44 · Score: 1
  
  It's my experience that a FedEx driver is more likely to find a Walmart than find my house. You can read, so you're miles ahead of the drivers in my area.
  
  A few years ago I was on the phone with FedEx trying to track down a misdelivered package (the guy passed right by my house and left it at a house a block away!). When I asked the kind lady if reading was a requirement for the drivers, she said it was worse than that. She had seen packages delivered to the right address in the WRONG CITY. I guess reading really is fundamental.
  
  I shudder any time I see a package coming by FedEx. Give me UPS or USPS any day.
20. Re:Amazon Prime by pnutjam · 2017-07-22 01:31 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think that's true. Try opening a private browser, or better yet, a different browser without being logged into Amazon. You'll see different prices then you see in prime, often lower.
  
  --
  Cheap storage VM.
21. Re:Amazon Prime by bluefoxlucid · 2017-07-22 06:47 · Score: 1
  
  Well, what about heavy things that cost a lot to ship then? Let's try Lodge Cast Iron.
  It's $45.06 whether I'm on my phone or my computer, logged in or not, private or not, T-Mobile or Wifi.
  Still the same.. still the same... the same for laundry detergent...
  Can you give an example? I've never been able to find one, and nobody's ever cited one; they just say that Amazon does it.
  
  --
  Support my political activism on Patreon.
22. Re: Amazon Prime by adolf · 2017-07-22 14:54 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, as far as I can tell the discount applies to all creeds.
  It's absurd, though. The other day I needed oil for my car, so (fucking yay) this means Walmart. I scoped out the prices of the other places that stock motor oil first, just to make sure that there wasn't a better price to be had (and there wasn't). So I get to the store and, lo! The shelf price of Mobil-1 is a dollar or so more than the online price (with "free pickup today").
  It's cheaper for me, a consumer, to shop at home, pay in advance, and have an employee pull the stock, than it is for me to shop in person and pay on my way out.
  It's absurd. But since the only thing I generally buy at Wal-Mart is motor oil (and mostly because shipping motor oil is a non-starter), and this is a thing that happens, I guess I'll just start doing abusing them. (Both because I'm a frugal prick, and because fuck Walmart. I hope they lose money on each sale, and given the prices the competitors charge, this might actually be the case.)
  
  --
  Kid-proof tablet..
23. Re: Amazon Prime by drinkypoo · 2017-07-23 00:17 · Score: 1
  
  I wound up finding Mobil 1 online for the same price as Wally World, so I ordered it from someone else and it showed up at my door. Well, driveway.
  About the only thing I'll still go to Wal-Mart for is truck batteries. Not car batteries, my car takes a euro battery that they don't carry.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
24. Re:Amazon Prime by Quirkz · 2017-07-24 10:10 · Score: 1
  
  They should really investigate Amazon Prime, they advertise "free" shipping, but inflate prices to account for shipping.
  I've heard this a lot, but the Prime prices are still usually cheaper than or at least equal to what I'd pay at a local store, and I don't have to drive for 20-30 minutes to get it. Maybe that stuff was previously even cheaper on Amazon before Prime existed? That was so long ago I can't compare.
  
  --
  The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
...And? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 01:32 · Score: 0

To paraphrase a previous comment, Amazon could say the price was $10,000 discounted to $10, and it wouldn't affect our shopping habits.
The only relevant price is the one you pay. Consider that price, with the expected quality of the item and then make your choice.
I guess I just sort of assumed Amazon was already manipulating "discounts" to try and influence lesser minds.
MSRP? by Gilgaron · 2017-07-21 01:33 · Score: 1

Usually I ignore the purported discount on Amazon, as they are just listing MSRP. It actually makes me ignore their adverts more since I know that the discount cited is nonsense. If they end up forced to display 'real' discounts then I suppose I might take them more seriously. They're often still the cheapest but not by nearly the margin the % off MSRP would indicate.
Be an informed shopper by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 01:39 · Score: 1

So long as price tracking sites like https://camelcamelcamel.com are still allowed, I don't care what the main Amazon page lists as a base price.
MSRP? I don't think so. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 01:39 · Score: 0

Amazon frequently sends me emails claiming "lower prices" on an item, and they list the "regular" price much, much *higher* than the MSRP on a product, and a "discount" that brings it down to what everyone else is charging.
This was multiple years ago, so perhaps they've changed, but I got an email claiming the price on an item was:
List Price: $500.00
Price: $252.99
You Save: $247.01 (49%)
A nice deal... Except that the retail price according to the manufacturer is $279, meaning the real savings is 9.5%.
Why stop (or start) here? by rickb928 · 2017-07-21 01:49 · Score: 5, Interesting

The FTC could shut down virtually the entire retail furniture market. Instantly.
And that's not the only industry to examine in this manner. C'mon, man.

--
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
1. Re:Why stop (or start) here? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 07:49 · Score: 0
  
  The FTC could shut down virtually the entire retail furniture market. Instantly.
  And that's not the only industry to examine in this manner. C'mon, man.
  Even better is the whole rug industry that has stores continuously having "Going out of business" sales. Some for multiple years. It's like they have trained the customer to not buy a floor covering unless you are having a going out of business sale. I know several locations have passed laws saying if you are having a going out of business sale, you must actually go out of business in a reasonable time (I know there is a rug store around me in California that has been going out of business for as long as I have been here... 5 years)
Do your research and decide your own value by Tyr07 · 2017-07-21 01:53 · Score: 4, Insightful

You can't rely on corporate stores to tell you the proper worth and price for anything.
The proper price in the free market is whatever you can get someone to buy it for.
The source by circuit city literally had people put out sale prices that were higher than their normal prices.
You really have to learn to look at the quality of the product, if possible how many people use it, see if you can find actual reviews. Look for the problems and make a decision based on those reviews. Ultimately decide how much it's worth to /you/ to have it. Not buy it because you were told it's a good deal.
1. Re:Do your research and decide your own value by Fly+Swatter · 2017-07-21 03:13 · Score: 1
  
  What you are explaining is called 'shopping', and it seems many people today are too busy or too gullible to shop. They just buy, then complain if they find out they were just a sucker.
2. Re:Do your research and decide your own value by Tyr07 · 2017-07-21 03:44 · Score: 1
  
  People need better education on how to assign value to an object and determine if the function it serves in your life is worth the cost, and to decide if the cost in production or circumstances could lead themselves to a lower price.
  Like how was it manufactured, where was it made? Was it in a place known for cheap components and products? Do you need a gimmicky thing?
  Like my phone. It's a cheap phone, 100$. Know what it does? Makes phone calls. Great. It does what I need it for. I'm not going to spend 1100$ so I can play candycrush in VR on it. People need to be more grounded.
3. Re:Do your research and decide your own value by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 04:57 · Score: 1
  
  Somebody once told me "Stop determining value based on cost in dollars. Determine value based on time and effort. For example, if you make $25 and hour, and something costs $25, are you willing to work an extra hour to get it."
  Completely changed my perspective.
4. Re:Do your research and decide your own value by Anubis+IV · 2017-07-21 07:00 · Score: 1
  
  The proper price in the free market is whatever you can get someone to buy it for without engaging in fraud.
  FTFY
  If I tell someone I'm selling a brand new computer with the latest hardware, and instead sell a box loaded with dated components from years ago, I'm engaging in fraud. While someone may have been willing to pay the price I set, my activity would neither be legal nor conducive to a healthy market. Likewise, I can't lie to someone by telling them that the item they're buying is discounted from a higher price when it was never offered at that higher price to begin with. There are laws in most jurisdictions against doing so.
5. Re:Do your research and decide your own value by apoc.famine · 2017-07-21 07:47 · Score: 1
  
  As the AC here pointed out, time is money. I set my hourly time outside of work at $50. That's what it would take to make me want to do something other than what I want to do.
  
  I don't want to spend my time price-matching new screen protectors for my phone. They are like $10 on Amazon. I'd need to be buying a lot of like 50 of them before it would be worth my time to price compare. Same with many, many other products. So for those, I just buy them. Now, a new stove for the kitchen? You can bet I put in an hour or three making sure I'm getting what I want at a good price.
  
  $0.10 cheaper gas? I buy 10 gallons at a time, so that's $1 cheaper per fill. Unless it takes me under 2 minutes to drive to that, it's not worth my time. Most of the time what you're suggesting is laughably overkill. When you're creeping up into the hundreds of dollars, it starts to make sense.
  
  --
  Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
6. Re:Do your research and decide your own value by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 07:52 · Score: 0
  
  People need better education on how to assign value to an object and determine if the function it serves in your life is worth the cost, and to decide if the cost in production or circumstances could lead themselves to a lower price.
  Wait, what you are saying would ruin the entire women's fashion industry... Seriously - multiple thousands of dollars for a purse, or shoes with a trademarked red bottom?
7. Re:Do your research and decide your own value by Obfuscant · 2017-07-21 09:47 · Score: 1
  
  Likewise, I can't lie to someone by telling them that the item they're buying is discounted from a higher price
  The former problem is hard to solve on your own while the latter is trivial. Simply ignore any useless claims of what the higher price is or was.
  You cannot ignore the statement that the components are brand new latest hardware because that is a significant part of the description of what you are physically buying. "Regular price" is a useless piece of data because it reflects a price you aren't going to be paying anyway, and doesn't actually describe the product you are getting. Why do you care if the widget you are buying was sold for $1 or $10,000 yesterday, if the price you are willing to pay today is $0.50 and that's what they are going to charge you?
  But, you say, a $10,000 widget for fifty cents is a really great bargain and I'll buy it just to resell. I can produce widgets on my 3d printer all day and put a price of $10,000 on them. I may not sell any, but that's the price. Then I'll discount them to $10 and they're suddenly a "really great bargain"?
  Bottom line: the "price" on an item is what the seller says it is worth. The price you pay is what you decide it is worth.
8. Re:Do your research and decide your own value by Tyr07 · 2017-07-23 17:05 · Score: 1
  
  I'm definitely talking about larger purchases.
I believe it by Malenx · 2017-07-21 02:01 · Score: 2

Every time I decided to buy something on Amazon, I first search for it on Google to compare prices.
A lot of the time, Amazon'z retail price is inflated over the going rate and their sale price is near actual retail.
I've probably saved a couple hundred dollars on some of my larger purchases doing that.
1. Re:I believe it by Malenx · 2017-07-21 02:04 · Score: 1
  
  I should say, sometimes, not a lot of times.
2. Re: I believe it by guruevi · 2017-07-21 03:36 · Score: 1
  
  It happens but there is also a lot of other things like customer service that makes it worth it. Especially for business it's hard to justify a purchase of $300 that subsequently ends up having a problem than paying $350 on Amazon and you can just ship it back. In some cases Amazon will even send you the entire purchase and not even ask for a return. I had a problem with a part of the Nintendo DS kit (gift for someone), they sent me a brand new kit including a new DS without needing the old one back. So I had two (pink) DS and half a kit. Recently they sent me 10 Sandisk 64GB USB drives, one was broken so I got an entire new set of 10.
  
  --
  Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
3. Re:I believe it by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 05:03 · Score: 0
  
  The other day, I wanted to put an "add item" to a prime order, and found it on my computer, but my wife had the other item in her cart, so I tried to use her computer to find it and add it. It would not show up when searching with Amazon's search on her computer. I finally had to email her the URL, and with that I was able to add the item. (The other items that showed up were more pricey.) I'm starting to not trust Amazon search results. Maybe use Google's :site option from now on.
Amazon in General by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 02:08 · Score: 0

I don't shop Amazon at all. In the computer component department they often offer sales with overblown list prices at sales prices very close to Newegg, but in most cases more. The list prices are almost always overblown than the Newegg list price to give you the feel of making a savings when you could shop Newegg and save yourself some money (they offer free shipping sometimes as well). Amazon is guilty of this. However, I don't have a problem with Amazon doing this to consumers. I don't. If there is any animosity, it is toward the dumb fucks who continue to shop Amazon and think they are getting good deals. I'll continue to get my deals from Newegg or Tigerdirect and pay far less until I find another outlet that can get me what I want cheaper.
1. Re:Amazon in General by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-07-21 02:25 · Score: 1
  
  The problem with Newegg is that a lot of their sale prices in promotional emails are the same prices that they always sell the items at. The promotional codes provide enough discount to remove the sales tax from the final price. Good deals are hard to find on Newegg.
2. Re:Amazon in General by Luthair · 2017-07-21 03:23 · Score: 1
  
  On Newegg Canada I've even seen them discount an item but simultaneously increase the shipping cost by an amount equal to the discount.
3. Re:Amazon in General by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 06:06 · Score: 0
  
  Newegg, rockegg, cockegg! Where are my cock eggs?
4. Re:Amazon in General by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 07:22 · Score: 0
  
  I got a Black Amazon Dot, which matches my vintage 2006 Black Macbook.
bulsh by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 02:28 · Score: 0

Amazon uses dynamic pricing to maximize revenue. They are claiming here that they don't. they are talking out of an orifice lower than their navel.
The real problem is the opposite. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 03:48 · Score: 0

Amazon will hide the MSRP reference price when their offered price is *higher* than MSRP.
This creates and opening for scalpers, especially around Christmas.
As an example, my nephew had created a wish list full of random Legos, many of which were out of print, which some of his grandparents saw a $60 Lego set, and assumed it would be a suitable X-mas gift, but when it arrived it was one of those tiny sets, that generally retails for $10-15.
I myself have had things in my wishlist inflate in price, so I've taken to listing the MSRP in the comments of my wishlist.
Specific Example by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 04:44 · Score: 1

According to my receipt, Washburn Mills Chickpea Rotini on Amazon was $12.48 on Friday June 30th.
A few weeks later, Chickpea Rotini was ~$18.99.
Today it costs $24.97.
Why the 100% increase in less than 30 days? Could it be that Sam's Club and WalMart stopped carrying it?
Maybe Amazon is taking a page out of WalMart's playbook. Undercut prices until the competition gives up, then raise them to any level that consumers will pay. If this is the overall pattern, then it is an abuse of a monopoly.
1. Re:Specific Example by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-21 07:24 · Score: 1
  
  Wow. How about a simpler answer, the supply dried up. That $24 price is "fulfilled by Amazon", not sold by them. It is sold by Goods on sale. More over, it is listed as "Back-ordered. Due in stock July 28 -- order now to reserve yours". So nothing in your conspiracy theory adds up.
2. Re:Specific Example by nedlohs · 2017-07-21 07:39 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  It's almost as if when the supply of something goes down the price goes up. If only economists had realized this earlier...
MSRP by hackel · 2017-07-21 05:03 · Score: 1

Isn't it just generally accepted that these "original" reference prices are just MSRPs and to be ignored entirely? I mean, yeah, the practise is dishonest and should be abandoned, but it is no different from what every other business has done since...forever.
1. Re:MSRP by Moof123 · 2017-07-21 06:55 · Score: 1
  
  But when you stick a "Compare At" price on something that is completely fictional you cross the fuzzy line entirely. You can't tell me I "saved" $5 if there was never a sticker for $5 more on the widget. We've mostly been lulled into being scammed and lied to constantly, so I welcome a modicum of push back.
It happens everywhere by bobjr94 · 2017-07-21 05:43 · Score: 1

I was at a kmart closing sale last month, everything 20-70% off it said. All the normal prices had been removed or marked over with black marker and raised about 30% above what the products usually cost. Cans of dog food that use to be $1 were now 1.29 but 20% off, so still 9 cents more than their original price. All throughout the store everything was more that it ever sold for. And has anyone been to a Harbor Freight store ? Totally unrealistic base prices on everything...Normally $29.99 sale price $6.99....This saw only $49.99, compare at $325.00. There have been wrenches 'on-sale' at the same price for years that I have never seen being sold at their normal price.
Just plain wrong prices on Amazon by Moof123 · 2017-07-21 06:39 · Score: 1

Regularly I search on a specific item, see a price, click and no buying option matches that price. Seems scammy to me.
Similarly I regularly get a picture for the version/option/color I searched for, but the price shown is for a different version/option/color once you click. Wastes my time, and is also scammy.
My broader old gripe is searching for a very specific item (say a GTX 1070 card) and getting lots of "related" crap (AMD cards, GTX 1060 cards) that make it hard to actually compare. You have to resort to the check boxes to whittle down the results to what your original search should have accomplished in the first place.
1. Re:Just plain wrong prices on Amazon by Moof123 · 2017-07-21 06:50 · Score: 1
  
  Example: I search on "camalot #2", only option that matches the cheapest end of the $52-92.50 "prime" price for "Camalot C4 2nds" is an outside seller (non-prime) who charges a hefty bit for shipping. No way to get the bottom final price shown with a "prime" logo next to it.
  Scammy.
Jewelry by QlooQl · 2017-07-21 07:45 · Score: 1

They FTC is going to go NUTS when they go into any jewelry store. When they figure out that they didn't really save $4,000 on that engagement ring... all hell will break loose.
Is free shipping free? by Jerry · 2017-07-21 11:51 · Score: 1

While there are occasional Prime sales with free shipping that are real, I've noticed that the price on many Prime sales that include "free" shipping were equal to the price of other vendors on Amazon, plus shipping. Why pay $12/mo for Prime unless you want to stream their movies?

--
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
price manipulation by Anonymous Coward · 2017-07-24 10:40 · Score: 0

I bought RIVBOS sun glasses during prime days. Amazon had listed Orig price $99, marked down on amazon to $25. Went to RIVBOS website and had the glasses at $25. Immoral and misleading. shame! Not sure how they can justify this as a perfectly normal marketing strategy.