269 People Joined An Age Discrimination Class Action Suit Against Google (bizjournals.com)

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269 People Joined An Age Discrimination Class Action Suit Against Google (bizjournals.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on Sunday August 13, 2017 @02:14AM from the old-news dept.

Slashdot reader #9,119 BrookHarty writes: "269 people have joined a class-action lawsuit against Google claiming they were discriminated against in the workplace based on their age..." reports BizJournals. "The lawsuit originated in 2015 with plaintiff Robert Heath and was certified as a class-action in 2016." Google has stated it has implemented policies to stop age discrimination but still has an average employee age of 29.

In 2004 Larry Page fired Brian Reid nine days before IPO costing Reid 45 million in unvested stock options. Reid was fired for lack of "cultural fit". Reid has settled for an undisclosed amount.

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29 avg age... by ark1 · 2017-08-13 02:18 · Score: 2

Is that really the average age of all employees or an "Engineer" positions age? In other words does it include all ranks of employees or a specific one based on the title which seems to be more junior/mid-career.
1. Re:29 avg age... by ShanghaiBill · 2017-08-13 05:00 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Is that really the average age of all employees or an "Engineer" positions age?
  According to TFA, 29 is the median age of all employees at both Google and Facebook.
  TFA says the "29" comes from the Huffington Post, and provides a link. Follow the link to Huffington Post, and they say the number came from ComputerWorld and PayScale.com. ComputerWorld pulls the number from a claim in Robert Heath's lawsuit, the subject of TFA, thus closing the circle.
2. Re:29 avg age... by Nethead · 2017-08-13 07:16 · Score: 1
  
  Good research, Bill.
  
  --
  -- I have a private email server in my basement.
3. Re:29 avg age... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 09:09 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, in one fell swoop he's managed to surpass the ability of all previous Slashdot editors combined.
4. Re:29 avg age... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-14 02:54 · Score: 1
  
  I guess the next question is: is this different from other large tech companies? Most companies are a hierarchy: cheap (young) labor on the bottom fills up most of all positions, and then management takes up less and less positions as you go higher. Old people are usually driven out when their wages stagnate, so instead of going entry level -> junior -> senior -> management (or whatever route is appropriate) they go entry -> junior -> switch jobs to senior with some leadership capacity -> switch jobs into management. It doesn't make sense for a majority of a company to be highly experienced, poorly paid employees. The number of highly experienced employees should almost always be lower than the number of entry/junior employees.
  Also: is this a side-effect of Google targeting graduate students? From what I've heard they target MSc and PhD holders in computer science, which leads them to not only having a lower average age but gives them a pool of talent that is current on the state of the art when it comes to research. Yeah, you can also hire a bunch of older professors, but then you have to consider many of those have tenure and don't want to give it up, and not everyone wants to move to Silicon Valley, AND not everyone wants to work for Google.
  There's also no shortage of Computer Science professors - it's basically understood right now that you may be postdoc for almost a decade before you get a real tenure-track career. That means fresh PhDs are looking for somewhere to work (hmm...I heard Google hires PhDs.....).
  And finally, I think most software developers have experienced issues with members of the older generation(s) who just can't grok new technologies. Google actively researches better ways to do software development, and has been one of the de facto leaders in how hiring gets done in software for the last decade (eg if Google does it, we better do it too). I know older programmers who refuse to work in Agile environments. Well, guess what - it's not ageist to not hire someone who won't be a good fit for the workflow. There is someone out there who will do Agile with a smile on their face, instead of being a blocker at every turn saying "Well back in the 80s we did (...)" This goes back to the 'corporate personalities' in that famous book I can't recall the name of at the moment. These people are the person in the office who find their niche, and stay in it. They don't grow as a person or professionally. They simply do the bare minimum so they don't get fired.
  There's just tons of reasons why the bottom, most populous strata in any company is comprised of young workers. Older people expect more money and take on roles in management or technical lead roles. You can't be 90% highly experienced leaders/management and 10% workers.
5. Re:29 avg age... by JohnFen · 2017-08-14 05:31 · Score: 1
  
  I guess the next question is: is this different from other large tech companies?
  This is highly variable. There are lots of big companies that don't have this problem at all. The last two I worked for had (my estimation from looking at my coworkers, not real data) median ages in the mid forties overall, and among senior developers, closer to the lower fifties.
  Which seems about right to me, actually. Experience means a lot.
I see a little penis by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 02:22 · Score: -1

Scaramouche, faggot
Full text of lawsuit by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 02:31 · Score: -1, Offtopic

Here is the full text of the lawsuit being brought against Google. It's definitely worth reading if you want to get a feel for why the plaintiffs believe they've been discriminated against, and whether they actually have a strong case against Google.
1. Re:Full text of lawsuit by lobiusmoop · 2017-08-13 02:44 · Score: 2
  
  having the word 'goat' in the URL was the giveaway... mod parent down
  
  --
  "I bless every day that I continue to live, for every day is pure profit."
2. Re:Full text of lawsuit by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 02:49 · Score: -1
  
  Here is the full text of the lawsuit being brought against Google. It's definitely worth reading if you want to get a feel for why the plaintiffs believe they've been discriminated against, and whether they actually have a strong case against Google.
  that lawsuit reads like a pile of shit
3. Re:Full text of lawsuit by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 04:26 · Score: 0
  
  Here is the full text of the lawsuit being brought against Google. It's definitely worth reading if you want to get a feel for why the plaintiffs believe they've been discriminated against, and whether they actually have a strong case against Google.
  I don't know, it looks pretty open-ended to me, and the litigants seem to be rather exposed in that brief.
4. Re: Full text of lawsuit by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:11 · Score: 0
  
  wait, what? they discriminate by penis size too?
Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 02:35 · Score: 5, Insightful

I thought Google was all about the diversity. Are you telling me they don't believe older workers can accomplish the same as younger workers?
Certainly that can't be because of biological differences. It therefore must be about ageism and bean counting.
That would make Google....Evil.
1. Re:Wait wait wait by Pinky's+Brain · 2017-08-13 02:57 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  All companies virtue signal. Most successful IT companies hire young White and Asian men because IQ matters, they are easy to mould and abuse and you generally don't get much shit if you have to fire them.
  The cost of statistically indicated discrimination at the moment is lower than the alternative. Brian Reid being a case in point. Civil lawsuits are a lottery fought on feelings as much as facts and the media shapes the feelings to presuppose discrimination when there is no equality of outcome. So when reality forces inequality of outcome the odds are stacked against. Better to not employ them in the first place and avoid the risk.
  There are two obvious ways to fundamentally change this. Force companies to have an racial/age/gender profile within some deviation of a government mandated one or repeal the civil rights act and make discrimination by private industry legal. Or we can just muddle on and have companies virtue signal while Bayesian optimizing around all this shit as best they can. They all have unpalatable consequences, reality sucks.
2. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 03:09 · Score: 0, Insightful
  
  Right now, pandering to SJWs makes money. So everything about those classes of people gets prioritized.
  As soon as it stops making money, you will see Google stop caring about them.
  But I think most people know this, even if they won't admit it.
3. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 03:10 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I thought Google was all about the diversity. Are you telling me they don't believe older workers can accomplish the same as younger workers?
  
  Google only cares about diversity that's hip. Unless you're a member of a one of the traditionally defined repressed groups, fuck you. The world is divided into opressors and opressees. If you're an old white male, you're an opressor, and fuck you.
4. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 03:14 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  The ideology on the left is all about "deconstructing". Deconstructing gender, for example. If you self-identify as a gender fluid armadillo and demand to be called "it", everyone has to cater to that or risk losing their job.
  However, as a 45 year old man, I can't self-identify as 25 years old and date young women. You see, THERE all of a sudden we are allowed to judge by looks.
5. Re:Wait wait wait by alvinrod · 2017-08-13 03:20 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Most companies hire white and Asian men because those are the majority of people obtaining degrees in computer and IT fields and applying for positions. That's why quota systems at companies aren't going to fix the problem. Even if company X does almost exclusively hire women or non-Asian minorities, it just means that the white and Asian men end up working somewhere else. It isn't as though there are a shortage of tech positions available for anyone who's capable enough to demonstrate a bit of competence.
6. Re: Wait wait wait by ilguido · 2017-08-13 03:50 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Certainly that can't be because of biological differences. It therefore must be about ageism and bean counting.
  Actually, since older engineers are probably male, it is about biological differences.
7. Re:Wait wait wait by Tough+Love · 2017-08-13 04:05 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I thought Google was all about the diversity.
  Don't you get it yet? Google is all about the hypocrisy. Example: Google wants everybody to use its cloud to support modern, efficient remote working. Yet remote working is largely banned at Google. Example: google tells you that privacy is dead, get over it but if you dox Eric Schmidt you will be sued to the ends of the earth. Example: Google says "don't be evil" then does the opposite.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
8. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 04:18 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Right now, pandering to SJWs makes money. So everything about those classes of people gets prioritized.
  No, no, complaining about them gets money. I put a few ads on AM radio shows and raked in thousands by promising to fight their scourge.
  Try out yourself. Set up a bitcoin account and write a book about being a persecuted white man, you'll pull in the dough.
9. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 04:26 · Score: 0
  
  Seems simple enough to me. You have census data that provides a pretty good breakdown of various racial and other demographics in geographic regions, so if a company is truly hiring the most qualified people, the demographics of the country should mirror that of the surrounding community to within a few percentage points. If you live in an area that is say 90% African American, for example, and a company located in that area happens to be 90% Mongolian in its employee composition, odds are something untoward is going on. The EEOC and/or state counterpart should be swarming that company's office and pouring over every aspect of that business, since there's almost certainly going to be more than just discriminatory hiring taking place in those kinds of situations. You're almost certain to find a great deal of racially motivated harassment and discrimination taking place for the few "other" employees.
  And it's not some kind of "social justice" thing, a term that has been coined to fit just about anything conservatives don't like, it's in the best interests of companies to do this. Numerous studies have shown that the more diversity a company has, the better it tends to do over the long term. Having a variety of voices from as wide an array of backgrounds as possible will help the company make more informed decisions. Being able to hire/fire anyone they want, for any reason they want, as espoused by some short-sighted people, just leads to the very groupthink that lately those same short-sighted people have been accusing Google of fostering.
10. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 04:32 · Score: -1
  
  The most ironic part is that most of the people getting rich off poor white resentment are actually jews like Milo or Lauren Southern etc. but fools and their money are soon parted as they say.
11. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 04:33 · Score: 0
  
  this assumes the local population have the skillset needed to fulfill the task. Everyhing you said is the very purified liquid of SJW nonsense. Next, you will want to screen applicants for unpleasant thoughts.
12. Re:Wait wait wait by Maxo-Texas · 2017-08-13 04:35 · Score: 2
  
  Google software repeatedly invited the same 40+ year old female for job interviews and Google humans repeatedly turned her down for jobs because she was too old. The software was looking at her skill set.
  She's going to make a lot more money off them than if they had hired her.
  
  --
  She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
13. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 04:52 · Score: 1
  
  Let's say for the sake of argument that we have two races roughly equally represented within a population - the Foosians and Barlons. Foosian culture highly values caring for others, and Barlon culture highly values deep logic and analytical skills.
  Are you stating that you would assume discrimination in a case where doctors and nurses were >50% Foosians, while computer science, physics, and mathematics was >50% Barlons?
  Even in a completely discrimination-free utopia, it seems obvious that the proportion of Foosians and Barlons in many professions would be skewed one way or the other. That's what makes detecting and combating real discrimination so difficult.
14. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 04:53 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe you can, you just haven't tried.
15. Re:Wait wait wait by umghhh · 2017-08-13 05:06 · Score: 0
  
  Why cannot you date young women? You just pay upfront. That solves many other problems associated with dating too (esp. late follow up costs etc).
16. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 05:31 · Score: 0
  
  "The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a declaration adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on 10 December 1948. It states that:" Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status."
  To spin this language to exclude "cultural fit" would be a huge leap. The words "such as" and "other status" leaves this also very well open to "culture". "Cultural fit" should not be used, it is too non-specific.
  Is "culture" "...a make-believe cult of objective meritocracy, a pseudo-scientific mythos to obscure and reinforce the belief that only people who look and talk like us are worth noticing...."
  https://qz.com/225782/the-next-thing-silicon-valley-needs-to-disrupt-big-time-its-own-culture/
  Yes, the guy nailed it, "...Influential and otherwise very smart people will deny till their last breath that it even exists...."
17. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 05:43 · Score: 1
  
  I'm saying that if you have a 50/50 split of people in a given geographic area (say the SF Bay Area or DC Metro Area) and Company X is made up almost entirely of one of those groups, it's something that the EEOC and/or state counterpart should investigate. If Company X can adequately show that they are not discriminating against the second group, fine, but the odds of that happening are pretty low once a company gets beyond a couple dozen employees.
  It's about imposing a meritocracy, which conservatives should be all for. The best qualified candidate gets the job, regardless of race, age, nepotism, or whatever else. It's all about what you can do and how well you can do it relative to everyone else. That is the core essence of a lot of conservative philosophy, that people should be judged on their merits and actions, not because they belong to a minority group, or what they have between their legs, etc. Of course there are plenty who are just racists, sexist, and/or just plain bigots who are really upset because they're losing their previously privileged status and don't like having to compete on a level playing field.
18. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 05:46 · Score: 0
  
  This gives us some idea of the weight of Age vs. Gender that Google uses in hiring. Although, I'll bet if she was a Disabled African American Female over 40 they might have hired her because they could check off more boxes and parked her somewhere she would do a little damage as possible.
19. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:01 · Score: 0
  
  > I thought Google was all about the diversity.
  Even I, having never worked for Google, know that's bull: Google is all about searching and ranking search results. Diversity might be a value within the company, not "something it's all about."
  > Are you telling me they don't believe older workers can accomplish the same as younger workers?
  Older are not the same as younger (I'm old enough to know... almost 60 y.o.). Younger are better at some things, older are better at some other things. You get to have both if you want success. Obviously Google knows that. Even regarding some simple trait as ability to innovate, some youngums are notoriously bad and conservative (alas, being conservative might be the worst sin there).
  > Certainly that can't be because of biological differences. It therefore must be about ageism and bean counting.
  You are wrong, It has all to do with biological and education differences. Some people are great innovators at an advanced age (most successful artists, for instance).
  > That would make Google....Evil.
  Only in a reality where your reasoning applies -- which as seen from my comments, is not necessarily the case of that in which we live.
  FYI, my country has a more advanced law than the US. Prejudice (e.g. about age) is considered a crime. And yet I've seen a disturbing internal survey at work about employee age. This can have a lot of interpretations, from fitness to physically demanding activities to probable remaining time for retirement to probability of disrupting illnesses. This is akin to insurance companies asking whether there is a young driver in your house -- because that increases the chances of a mishap.
  Equality is not about demanding the same results from different people, but instead compensating for inequalities, so that fair treatment is evenly dispensed.
20. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:06 · Score: -1
  
  Cool! I wonder what sort of Google doodles we'll see when they start pandering to the alt-right? This could be a lot of fun!
21. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:09 · Score: 1
  
  As a liberalish center type, even I admit that, culturally, most CS grads have been makes. White and Asian.
  The portion of the population you need to look at is the portion that fits the company's hiring requirements. My bet is in any area you will find CS grads skew heavily white and Asian male.
  If you want to solve the gender problem, solve it in middle school and high school, where tech girls are ostracized.
  Even after this you will have some biology to account for. Women tend to have kids at some point. Some drop out of the workforce for a while. This will impact their employability more than men, who generally stay in the workforce after having a kid.
22. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:13 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  privacy is *not* for the little people.
23. Re:Wait wait wait by JDAustin · 2017-08-13 06:14 · Score: 1
  
  Um..yea you can. You just need to get off your ass and get into reasonable shape.
24. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:20 · Score: 0
  
  It's the equivalent of communism:
  A good idea in theory, but put it into practice, and well, I guess you can incoherently scream about how it wasn't "real" communism.
  Attempting to "enforce" a meritocracy by using the same sort of tools now in play will change nothing. Companies will still fill their nebulous unspoken quotas with sub-par workers in fear of a nonsensical diversity investigation and/or lawsuit.
25. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:23 · Score: 1
  
  Average age of 29? I dunno about software development but in real engineering fields you're still a youngblood and "just getting started" at that age.
  
  Most companies hire white and Asian men because those are the majority of people obtaining degrees in computer and IT fields and applying for positions. That's why quota systems at companies aren't going to fix the problem. Even if company X does almost exclusively hire women or non-Asian minorities, it just means that the white and Asian men end up working somewhere else. It isn't as though there are a shortage of tech positions available for anyone who's capable enough to demonstrate a bit of competence.
  In my engineering class it was 2/3 male and among those males less than 1/5 were black (and not African-American but actual Africans). The rest were a mix of whites, Asians, and Indians.
26. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:27 · Score: -1
  
  Trotsky-jewboi Page has a bad memory ... for dates ...
27. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  A 29 year old could have 11 years of experience if they got a job right out of high school. That would put them in the beginning of their competent phase.
  But google hires PhDs. So their median is like 5 years. At that stage, every developer's first instinct is to throw away what the last guy did to avoid having to learn how it works. That doesn't bode well.
28. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 07:01 · Score: 0
  
  I'm not sure what ideas you have about US law, but discriminatory employment practices are illegal here in the US, at least with regards to certain "protected" groups or statuses. Wikipedia has a list of those.
29. Re:Wait wait wait by doctorvo · 2017-08-13 07:17 · Score: 1
  
  I thought Google was all about the diversity. Are you telling me they don't believe older workers can accomplish the same as younger workers?
  Google is basically a company run by and for aging college kids, except that they are now millionaires and can get away with even more shit than they could in college. That's why everything is provided for them on campus: food, laundry, etc. It's also why employees at Google are treated as immature kids. Age discrimination is part of Google's corporate DNA.
30. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 07:22 · Score: -1
  
  She's going to make a lot more money off them than if they had hired her.
  If she really had any skills, she wouldn't wasting her time or risk her career on sex discrimination lawsuits. The return on time invested just isn't worth it.
31. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 07:27 · Score: 0
  
  If you want to solve the gender problem, solve it in middle school and high school, where tech girls are ostracized.
  Or solve it on slashdot, where the last several weeks have been nothing but tech people saying that women are biologically less competent.
  Knowing that these are the people they'd have to work with, I really would recommend they go into a different field.
32. Re:Wait wait wait by ganjadude · 2017-08-13 07:35 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  It's about imposing a meritocracy, which conservatives should be all for. The best qualified candidate gets the job, regardless of race, age, nepotism, or whatever else. It's all about what you can do and how well you can do it relative to everyone else.
  
  Thats exactly what the fired google employee was trying to say and we all see how well that went
  
  --
  have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
33. Re:Wait wait wait by 93+Escort+Wagon · 2017-08-13 07:37 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Younger workers are often willing to put in lots of extra time on a project without being asked. Older workers often prefer to have some sort of life outside of work; so, if they are expected to put in extra time, they want to be asked - and will sometimes still say no.
  The people in power st Google - and other places - seem to think it's perfectly fine to discriminate based on these factors. Funny thing is, the people in power often want to do stuff outside of work and expect to be accommodated without penalty... they just don't think the little people deserve the same consideration.
  
  --
  #DeleteChrome
34. Re:Wait wait wait by phantomfive · 2017-08-13 08:01 · Score: 1
  
  I think age is a biological difference. FWIW.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
35. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 08:11 · Score: 0
  
  If women had the same level of reading comprehension as people like you when it comes to anything with nuance, I wouldn't want them in tech either. Fortunately, they don't.
36. Re: Wait wait wait by mapkinase · 2017-08-13 08:11 · Score: 1
  
  Thr whole Western system is about hypocrisy, which often nowadays went to absurd levels.
  Gay marriage aloud, polygamy is a crime.
  Going butt naked is aloud, but putting on a headscarf is a crime.
  Mere extrapolation of the level of scientific understanding millions of years into the past is a law, but if you state obvious biological differences between races or genders, you are a bigoted Nobel laureate or Harvard PhD.
  
  --
  I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
37. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 08:16 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  While firing him was (yet another) evil act of Google, he was trying to say many things, some of them rather condescending towards women.
38. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 08:22 · Score: 0
  
  About the "headscarf" thing - I suggest you come to Palestine or one of the surrounding countries, and see how people interpret a (male) person covering all of his head except his eyes with a aah (, a.k.a. Kaffiah). Hint: You do that when you intend to attack and you want to hide your identity.
  Now, true, for women it's different, but being freaked out about people covering their entire face does not seem hypocritical to me.
  Also "obvious biological differences" are often not as obvious nor as biological as you might believe - and that Googer employee's document was a case in point. It was inappropriate to fire him though.
39. Re: Wait wait wait by Brockmire · 2017-08-13 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  Are you thinking of IBM? Also, you dox anyone who has dinner with multiple presidents should expect to receive a nice "fuck you" response. I'm a nobody, but if I was doxxed, they can expect a visit...
40. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 08:53 · Score: 0
  
  The younger employees may think they are smarter but that is a mistake all young people come to realize only after they need to start shaving more than once a week. Ig Google is worried about older employees maybe everyone over 30 should resign for the good of the company. Of course that means everyone over 30 including upper management all the way up to the board of directors. Those fossils are so far out of touch the only thing they try to understand is fluctuating stock prices and how those changes will effect their retirement benefits.
41. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 09:02 · Score: 0
  
  Some engineer wrote "don't be evil" over a board a very long time ago. If today, he will be fired because evil people are a minority and consequently need to be protected.
42. Re:Wait wait wait by interkin3tic · 2017-08-13 09:37 · Score: 1
  
  Certainly that can't be because of biological differences
  I'll bite: why not? The Fields medal limits to under 40, I've heard it pointed out on Slashdot that most mathematicians who have made substantive contributions did so by age 30. It's not universally true but still a strong trend.
  
  With women and people of color, the argument is they are discouraged from entering fields dominated by white dudebros. Maybe that's true of old fogeys too, I could see that, but there should be older employees there who were younger when they were hired. I have no idea if that's the case at google.
  
  My point is, no one is saying "biological differences are never significant." People ARE saying "Biological differences between men and women and people of color and white dudes have not been proven to be significant." Because they haven't despite centuries of scientists attempting to prove it.
43. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 09:38 · Score: 1
  
  "Nuance" is what we say when we want to be sexist but don't want to be called sexist.
44. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 09:38 · Score: 0
  
  But the eventual benefit to society is worth it.
45. Re:Wait wait wait by Pinky's+Brain · 2017-08-13 09:55 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  No, I'm saying that companies discriminate above and beyond that for the very rational reason that people from under-represented protected classes represent a risk to the company come firing time. At will employment laws don't really help in that regard, since the civil rights act pre-empts it.
  "In fact, on average, damages are probably relatively low in hiring cases, reinforcing incentives to avoid hiring protected-class members and to risk lawsuits from applicants rather than employees"
  https://books.google.com/books...
  Of course none of this is official policy, ever said out loud, or even admitted to themselves by people in these companies a lot of the time. We in the west are very good at maintaining culpable deniability at all times. That's why the only way to really get a given statistical distribution you think is fair is to punish companies based purely on statistical evidence, as happens with companies fulfilling federal contracts as the book points out. Do you really want this level of central planning for the economy in general though?
46. Re:Wait wait wait by lucasnate1 · 2017-08-13 10:41 · Score: 2
  
  At 25 many of them still don't know how to fuck properly though. It always felt to me like a trade-off between age and young looks.
  
  --
  Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
47. Re:Wait wait wait by Maxo-Texas · 2017-08-13 10:43 · Score: 1
  
  Well, she ignored the first, second, and third time. By the fourth time of them approaching her, she was full of it.
  
  --
  She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
48. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 11:14 · Score: 0
  
  Or maybe there is more to this issue than you and your feminist friends are willing to admit. After you have come out flailing, and then face evidence that you were wrong, its natural to commit even more to your position to avoid the blow to your self esteem. So ironically, after ignoring biological and cultural differences that explain certain outcomes and insisting that all evil comes from concerted effort by white men to oppress everyone, you are actually just on psychological autopilot.
  By the way why are most Panda Express employees in my neighborhood Asian? There is also a particular Burger King here where all the employees are black. Given that population here is still
49. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 11:17 · Score: 0
  
  ... 50% caucasian those are some unexpected results. Maybe they couldn't find qualified white cashiers. Or maybe discrimination among every other community is rampant yet overlooked in favor of bashing on the white man. That seems unfair. Dont tell me about Jim crow laws and slave trades, that wasnt me. I didn't do those things. Treating people like that is wrong. Now where is my hand out?
50. Re:Wait wait wait by dbIII · 2017-08-13 16:17 · Score: 1
  
  She's going to make a lot more money off them than if they had hired her.
  That's kind of the point of punitive legal action.
51. Re:Wait wait wait by eclectro · 2017-08-13 16:56 · Score: 1
  
  That's why quota systems at companies aren't going to fix the problem.,
  Is it a 'problem though?" I'm far, far more concerned about age discrimination than the fact that a minority of women have decided to take up the computer sciences at college.
  
  --
  Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
52. Re:Wait wait wait by rtb61 · 2017-08-13 17:18 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  That would be the fake left. The ideology of the real left is left = workers and right = bosses and issues that affect every worker, universal health care, a living wage for all workers, equal access to democracy and equal access to justice. The fake left, the main stream media fabrication, the SJW tools of the bosses, the one designed to break up left = workers, sure "genital mutilation of the acceptable kind?!?" is an issue but make not mistake it is not an issue for the majority of workers or the real left.
  Google has a rock solid reputation for being ageist and this from the very beginning, the only reason they a starting to change, is to protect the already employed who grew old at Google whilst they rabidly excluded all other older people, now it's their turn and well, well, it's time to change the rules.
  
  --
  Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
53. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 17:58 · Score: 0
  
  Evil people are the majority and they are in power, and always have been.
54. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 20:20 · Score: 0
  
  > I thought Google was all about the diversity.
  *Bwa-ha-ha-ha!!!*
  It's really not about diversity. It never was. It's about what the college age kids who started at Google considered politically correct diversity to be. And us oldsters, well, we tend to be more conservative, we tend to look at what projects will *cost* and what they will break. We put in rollbacks for software deployments, we look past the "layer of abstraction" to see that doing work one way puts enormous burden on the underlying codebase or VM and factor our code accordingly because the new excited punk has been trained by the "object oriented" world not to care about anyone but themselves. We're also less willing to put in 80 hour work weeks at crunch time, because we *know* the code produced that way will suck and take another 80 hours in two weeks to clean up from the mess.
  And brother, we *are not willing* to do the "Google calls, sets up an interview for an *entirely different job*, you show up, and they spend six months with the resume making sure their HR people collect money for "handling applicants" and then make an offer for yet *another* job. Been there done that, after the second time I told them where the could put it. Waiting six months for an offer makes sense if you're Harvard and hiring for a position with tenure, one where it will take another six months to leave your old position and train replacements. It makes no sense for Google, but I checked. Despite their claims of improving their hiring, it's now an even more nebulous bureaucracy with so many conflicting standards they can do *anything they want* behind the scenes. This includes knowledgeable managers steering their eager minions to apply profit-affecting hiring standards they will never admit on paper, and the sucker minions may not even realize they're doing it.
55. Re: Wait wait wait by xski · 2017-08-13 20:29 · Score: 1
  
  How 'bout:
  Stupid people are the majority and evil people, though the minority, are in power and always have been.
56. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 20:51 · Score: 0
  
  They hire plenty of non-PHD's even as Engineers. (Software and otherwise)
57. Re:Wait wait wait by dcw3 · 2017-08-13 23:38 · Score: 1
  
  Most successful IT companies hire young White and Asian men because IQ matters, they are easy to mould and abuse and you generally don't get much shit if you have to fire them.
  Um, if IQ matters so much, they wouldn't be so easy to "mould". Clearly Pinky's brain has been lobotomized. Joking aside, your premise is so racist/sexist that you're going to be dismissed w/o most people reading beyond the first paragraph.
  
  --
  Just another day in Paradise
58. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-14 01:15 · Score: 0
  
  You're making an unsupportable assumption that just because an area has a high percentage of a particular racial group that there is an equal percentage of peoples from that racial group that have the skills required for the job. I work near Atlanta which is listed as 61% black, yet my shop has a development staff of 35, a mixture of White, Asian and Indian, both men and women only. In the hiring we did over the last year we never interviewed a Black developer, not sure if any applied and were filtered by the HR system based on skills, but just know not one phone or face to face interview occurred. Now we do have a number of Black women in our data reporting team and testing teams who do excellent work in those areas, just not in software development.
59. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-14 03:21 · Score: 0
  
  So in your world companies shouldn't hire nationally and internationally to get the best candidates for the job but only hire locally? No company should hire from graduates of universities outside its area?
  Considering that High School graduation rates in the Metro DC area are at 65% ( lowest in the nation tied with New Mexico) it seems pretty obvious that any company requiring workers with actual educations would have to pull from outside that local area.
  Does your meritocracy fantasy take into account that GPA for African American students lag white students by half a point and Asian students by even more. No secret why tech companies hire whites and Asians in such numbers.
60. Re: Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-14 04:03 · Score: 0
  
  Given google's perma-beta mentality and success rate launching new services, throwing away code instead of bothering to understand it is probably par for the course.
61. Re:Wait wait wait by david_thornley · 2017-08-14 08:24 · Score: 1
  
  Older people also know that putting in lots of extra time doesn't make them more productive, particularly in fields like software development.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
62. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-14 19:24 · Score: 0
  
  Oh please, deny reality more.
  Isn't that why Asians, Blacks and Whites have different test gradation for math in school? How does this fit with your narrative?
63. Re:Wait wait wait by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-14 19:27 · Score: 0
  
  Since kids start to do it since they are 16, by 25 they have more experience than you do. So worry not.
64. Re: Wait wait wait by TimMD909 · 2017-08-17 03:10 · Score: 1
  
  Whatever, Diana Moon Glampers. Pretty sure your idea of equality didn't work out for Harrison Bergeron.
65. Re: Wait wait wait by TimMD909 · 2017-08-17 03:14 · Score: 1
  
  "Sexist" is what we call people when we have to attack the person instead because we realize there is no chance of repudiating their idea(s). See also "nazi"
Happy Sunday by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 02:35 · Score: 0

It's your buddy Jesus Christ here just checking to see if you mortals have started the rapture yet. Repent and be saved!
"Do No Evil" Google by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 02:37 · Score: 2, Insightful

Age discrimination, sexism, monopolies, censorship, spying... I wish we had the old google back.
1. Re:"Do No Evil" Google by DontBeAMoran · 2017-08-13 02:42 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  You mean the Google that did age discrimination, sexism, monopolies, censorship and spying without our knowledge?
  
  --
  #DeleteFacebook
2. Re:"Do No Evil" Google by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 02:45 · Score: 1
  
  An employer whose employee's age/race/gender proportions exactly match the proportions of applicants would be acting with no bias at all.
  And they would appear to be terribly biased and would be sued for all three categories of discrimination.
3. Re:"Do No Evil" Google by lucaiaco · 2017-08-13 03:15 · Score: 1
  
  I am glad all this is happening to google. Maybe they will finally realize that replacing merit with social just at a workplace does not pay off, and others will follow suit.
4. Re:"Do No Evil" Google by Chas · 2017-08-13 03:58 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
  Oh. You were SERIOUS?
  BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
  Sorry, but contrary to popular belief, Google is (and always has been) Evil. It's just that they're good enough at coverups that it becomes hard to collate all the instances of bad behavior.
  
  --
  
  Chas - The one, the only.
  THANK GOD!!!
"ideas ... too old to matter" by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2017-08-13 02:47 · Score: 5, Informative

In 2004 Larry Page fired Brian Reid nine days before IPO costing Reid 45 million in unvested stock options. Reid was fired for lack of "cultural fit". Reid has settled for an undisclosed amount.
Wow. That's quite something. I had no idea that Hölzle was such a little piece of shit:

'He was fired by Larry Page (who was 30 at the time) in February 2004, after being told he was not a "cultural fit" by Rosing, and that his ideas were "too old to matter" by Hölzle, according to Reid.'

--
Ezekiel 23:20
1. Re:"ideas ... too old to matter" by Noishkel · 2017-08-13 03:27 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Well, now I suddenly am a little glade I had to quit college for network engineering to get an immediate job in trucking. Especially since most of the people I knew in tech in the early 00s have now left the tech industry, largely because of how bad working in California is for anyone right of Mao or quiet enough to not be noticed.
2. Re:"ideas ... too old to matter" by g01d4 · 2017-08-13 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  Ideas aren't supposed to correlate with age. To be sure any assertion that an idea is "too old to matter" should have objective reasons behind it.
3. Re:"ideas ... too old to matter" by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:27 · Score: 0
  
  You fail to distinguish between a person and his ideas. Lack of culture fit is often code for tedious and abrasive. For example, maybe he wouldn't shut up about how Google should be running their workloads on big iron at a point when their focus was on scaling by throwing failure tolerant workloads at lots of commodity hardware. It is quite possible for ideas to be either out of date or just out of step with how a company has decided to do things. Or perhaps it was age discrimination. Neither of us was there and so far the only side we've heard is from the guy with a $45 million chip on his shoulder.
4. Re:"ideas ... too old to matter" by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:45 · Score: 0
  
  How interesting and ironic! This, from wikipedia:
  "On August 5, 2010, in an opinion by Justice Ming Chin, the court affirmed the Court of Appeal decision in favor of Reid and remanded to the lower courts for further proceedings. The Court refused to adopt the "stray remarks" doctrine pioneered by U.S. Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, because remarks by non-decisionmakers may be circumstantial evidence relevant to discriminatory actions (in the sense that hostile co-workers can manipulate a supervisor); "
  Reid sued google, and an appeals court upheld in his favor, saying Holzle's "too old to matter" comment _was_ relevant and should be considered as evidence, despite his not being a direct decisionmaker in Reid's dismissal, because "hostile co-workers can manipulate a supervisor" into firing someone for bogus cause.
  Now, let's all pause to consider the implications of that decision, whilst meditating on Mr. Damore's recent dismissal, shall we? Looks like google is a "learning organization".
5. Re: "ideas ... too old to matter" by Brockmire · 2017-08-13 08:39 · Score: 1
  
  If he said the ideas were "too crappy", that would be cool?
6. Re:"ideas ... too old to matter" by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 09:18 · Score: 0
  
  I wouldn't say working in California is too bad. Discussing politics in the workplace is a no-no regardless of what state you're in. Or what company. Have y'all never had a job before...? The Google guy, publishing what he did, and putting his name on it, knew full well that the backlash would come down on him. People get fired for a lot less than that, all the time. Chances are looking good that he will win his case and walk out with a golden parachute. From all the publicity, he's probably got an inbox full of job offers already. The sort of jobs most can only dream of. Although I agree with the main thrust of his paper, and don't think Google should have fired him - I have no sympathy for the man himself. He's facing no significant hardship. He is not a "whistleblower". Google's diversity initiatives are not secret. You know what happens to real whistleblowers? They get thrown in jail, or have to flee the country. Snowden, Manning, Winner, Assange.
  You mentioned computers and trucking. I also get the impression you're one of those guys who thinks Mr. Manifesto is the poster child for oppressed white people. So now I give you a true story about IT, trucking, and what actual oppressed white people are dealing with.
  I studied "Computer networking" in college - not the same thing as network engineering, I realize. But my knowledge of sysadmin'ing and networking extends well beyond the degree, from self-study. After graduating in 2012, I worked for about a year doing entry-level stuff at a web hosting company. I left the company for many reasons... Commute was far, company ownership changed, meaning: less advancement opportunities, shittier health insurance, changes in the office environment, and a whole slew of other policies bad for the company, the clients, and the employees. The pay was only a few dollars above minimum wage. So, I thought I'd try my luck at a different company.
  Before that job materialized, I got caught up in some family troubles. It's especially tough when certain family members with connections to the police start exaggerating and outright fabricating things about you. "He yelled at me" won't bring the cops out, but claiming there was a burglary and an assault will. Nothing of the sort happened, of course. And there was nothing to suggest that it did, other than that hysterical woman. (Those charges disappeared by the time I got to court.)
  But the police weren't going to leave without making an arrest. Not after their buddy called telling them about all the mean things I said. No crime committed? No problem, make one up. Conferring momentarily with the buddy who called, they hatched a plan to charge me with "Possession of an Abusable Volatile", some obscure law nobody has ever heard of. Apparently, having certain completely legal cleaning products in your house, coupled with hearsay that you are "on drugs", is enough to land you in jail. Had I had the money for a good lawyer, or any supportive family in the US to personal-bond me out (no bail needed) while I fight the case, I could have probably beat it. Or at least been given the opportunity to do probation and have it cleared from my record.
  Alas, no such luck. In today's guilty-until-proven-innocent justice system, you will be jailed for months, maybe a year or longer, awaiting your "speedy trial". After about a week of being in jail, I developed the worst sinus/ear/respiratory infection I have ever had, no doubt from the unsanitary conditions. Couldn't sleep, discharge from every orifice, could barely hear or breathe, and feverish. My requests over several days for medical attention were ignored. (It ended up taking three courses of different antibiotics to kill it, when I got out). So my choice was to either rot in jail for months for a crime I didn't commit, with a chance of dying in the process. Or I could plead guilty and be out the next day. This is the corner into which our "justice system" paints the poor and those without family. Minority communities are where you find more of that, but make no mist
7. Re:"ideas ... too old to matter" by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 14:00 · Score: 0
  
  They better not listen to their customers and users of over 29 years of age because their opinions on Google products and services are clearly too old to matter.
Google's Response by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 02:54 · Score: 2, Funny

We encourage open debate on matters of equality, but you're all fired.
1. Re:Google's Response by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 04:10 · Score: 1
  
  mod +1Hilarious
2. Re: Google's Response by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:17 · Score: 0
  
  they encourage open debate, know who to fire
3. Re: Google's Response by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 07:25 · Score: 1
  
  It's like Mao's "Let A 100 Flowers Bloom" tactic where he lead intellectuals to believe they could have a debate about the future of the party, then after everyone came out with their positions and made public statements, the party line changed from "100 Flowers" to "Anti-Rightist Campaign" and everyone who said something Mao didn't like were purged.
Hard to believe anyway, I think! by williamreview1 · 2017-08-13 02:55 · Score: -1

I remember that Google and its workers fought for immigrants against Donald Trump's temporary ban. https://williamreview.com/soci...

--
http://williamreview.com/
1. Re: Hard to believe anyway, I think! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 05:00 · Score: 0
  
  Well that's because discrimination based on nationality or culture is bad!
  Discrimination against the exact same people because they are old has-beens or never-weres? Perfectly fine! Just more hypocrisy from one of the largest companies on earth that supposedly "does no evil"
Out with the old, in with the new by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 03:00 · Score: -1

Old people should just hurry up and die already. Their careers are by and large over and they are just a drain upon society. The world belongs to the the vigorous and youthful. Deal with it.
SJW blabla by lucaiaco · 2017-08-13 03:13 · Score: -1, Flamebait

In a private company, one should be able to hire and fire whoever they want (with proper compensation). You cannot be an anti-SJW libertarian only when the group complaining isn't the one you belong to.

Senior engineers should be more experienced and valuable than junior ones. If they are unemployable at google/facebook/etc., it means they are not valuable enough to that company. If that's the case, great, move on. I am sure they are all smart and capable people, and that they will find employment elsewhere. Just remember that you are paid and you are hired for what you are worth, not for your age or title. This may mean that over time your value may decrease, despite what you may think your value is.

If women cost 30% less than a man, companies would only hire women to get a huge advantage over competitors. The same logic applies here.

One last thing: keep on promoting the narrative where X group is always discriminated, and you end up with all possible subcategories of people feeling like they are. And remember you can always keep on subcategorizing, down until the individual level.
1. Re:SJW blabla by MightyYar · 2017-08-13 03:26 · Score: 1
  
  In a private company, one should be able to hire and fire whoever they want
  Agreed.
  
  You cannot be an anti-SJW libertarian only when the group complaining isn't the one you belong to.
  Agreed.
  But.
  You can be opposed to a government law while still taking advantage of it. For instance, I can complain that high income earners get to take the mortgage deduction, and I'd be a fool to not take my mortgage deduction. You play the game by the rules as they are, and you can be a Libertarian and still use the existing rules to sue for compensation when you are discriminated against. To not do so puts you at a disadvantage to everyone else, and that is foolish. Idealistic, but foolish.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
2. Re:SJW blabla by lucaiaco · 2017-08-13 03:44 · Score: 1
  
  True that.
3. Re:SJW blabla by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 04:21 · Score: 0
  
  Google isn't a private company. It's a publicly traded company. It would have nowhere near the capitalization and market control it does without that. The reason that happens is because of laws allowing it to. We as a society have decided, as much as I disagree with it, that granting corporations special privileges, exemptions, capabilities, etc. is good for the economy as a whole. That should not come without a price--the price being corporations have to behave themselves according to the wishes of the society that allows (key word there) them to exist.
  Let's be very, very clear about what we're talking about here. In the case of SJW bullshit we're talking about people claiming discrimination absent actual proof of it, the issue in STEM fields very much being a lack of females who have chosen to apply across the fields in question. The reasons they choose not to apply are complicated, demonstrably outlined by an unfortunate employee at Google recently, and I would argue not really the fault of any one company.
  On the other hand, with age discrimination, you're talking about companies actively not hiring or getting rid of people who DO choose to apply or choose to work in a particular place. That's very different, just as if anybody ever actually proves that women in identical jobs to men for identical amounts of time (without elective time off for childbearing, etc) get paid differently or don't advance at the same rate then that is very much a problem.
  Sure, you can take any level of regulation to extremes, and the corporatist crowd around here is willing to do that all the time to try to prove their points, but part of the deal here is that anybody who goes too far on either side needs to be reeled in.
  I'm fairly well along in my career now, to the point where I can toss stereotypes all over the place: as an experienced tech person I can't tell you the number of times bad ideas keep circling back around because some young person with a lot of guts and not a lot of thinking something through has an idea that's frankly obvious and hasn't been done because other people know why said idea is stupid. I've also seen older people who refuse to keep up with things and who seem to act as caretakers. Guess what? I've also seen young people with very good ideas on how to do things, and older people who are responsive, well informed, and frankly can do the work of 2 or 3 people simply by knowing what not to go do before they do the right thing. Ideally you'll have a mix in any organization. Where you don't, that's suggestive of but not proof of age discrimination.
  I would never go apply at Google. Most people with more than a couple of years experience who I know would not, young or old. The culture there is toxic to anybody with any sense of individuality. So (my opinion) Google has discriminated on the basis of age given certain evidence that's been made public, but also a lot of people not in their 20s simply choose not to apply to an organization they don't like. How do you sort that out? Hard to say, but "let the corporation do whatever it wants to with no oversight" is hardly ever a good idea.
4. Re:SJW blabla by Chewbacon · 2017-08-13 05:00 · Score: 1
  
  Problem is when the more experienced workforce tries to provide guidance to the younger workforce. I'm seeing this in my company: the old guys tell the young guys "That's a good idea, but we tried that before and it didn't work." This doesn't go over well with the young folks and they become passive aggressive, productivity slides and the senior guys are seen as poor leaders. I'm in that younger workforce and while I respect the experience (they've gotten me this far), those old guys have an unwillingness to even consider new ideas - if it hasn't been tried before, they're reluctant to.
  
  --
  Chewbacon
  The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
5. Re: SJW blabla by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 05:05 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah except that if the company's perception of applicants' value is systematically proven to be devalued due to illegal discrimination. Age is a protected class under discrimination law. It's on the plaintiffs to prove that is the case, and apparently there is enough merit that a judge hasn't tossed the case in several hearings where there was opportunity to do so.
  You can deride it as SJW blablabla if you want - but why do you give a shit if these people get their day in court?
6. Re:SJW blabla by dbIII · 2017-08-13 16:23 · Score: 1
  
  Sorry, I can't see how that can be a contradiction in any way at all. Isn't one interpretation of "libertarianism" summed up as "I've got mine"? If there is advantage to take or people to exploit how can it contradict the "philosophy"?
  
  Maybe you should try a different label to the one Koch applies to himself.
7. Re:SJW blabla by MightyYar · 2017-08-14 01:58 · Score: 1
  
  That sounds like the Ayn Rand, objectivist sort of "libertarian". The whole philosophy, such as it is, seems to be unabashedly centered around selfishness. In fact, the only thing all libertarians agree on is the principle of innate (inalienable) rights. Even there, many add "property" as an innate right to the traditional life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. "Pursuit of happiness" leaves a lot of wiggle room. The main thrust is to leave people alone unless their behavior infringes one of your innate rights. It is very much a contradiction for a libertarian to use government power to enrich themselves, as their ideals are antithetic to such "abuses". But you'd be an idiot not to play by the existing rules, even as you try to change them.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
8. Re:SJW blabla by dbIII · 2017-08-14 14:16 · Score: 1
  
  That sounds like the Ayn Rand, objectivist sort of "libertarian".
  Yes. You'll get people throwing you into the same category as people you despise since they apply the same label to themselves.
9. Re:SJW blabla by MightyYar · 2017-08-15 02:10 · Score: 1
  
  That's fine, people like to classify. Makes sense evolutionary, but it's the source of a lot of our tribalism and bias. If blacks can live day-to-day with society biased against them the way it is, then I can certainly clarify my political leanings a bit on Slashdot from time to time :)
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
10. Re:SJW blabla by micahraleigh · 2017-08-15 06:53 · Score: 1
  
  "you are paid and you are hired for what you are worth, not for your age or title"
  
  No, no, no ... there are a lot of other factors: what hiring managers think their superiors will let them get away with, appearances, etc. There is a TON of itch scratching in the hiring process that have nada to do with what the job listing says companies are looking for. I have a recruiter friend (who I have never worked with to get a SW dev job), and he told me out of all the decades he's spent recruiting there is a TON more shenanigans in the hiring company than the candidates. I got a couple certifications and my pay went up 30%. Does that mean I became 30% more capable? No, I just looked different. My contribution capability did not change.
Now This by RottenJ · 2017-08-13 03:20 · Score: 4, Insightful

As a 45 year old, white, straight male I am slightly more desirable than nuclear waste when it comes to being employed in tech nowadays. I hope they prevail and some sort of precedent is established. I guess the only purpose of having a VP O' Diversity is to ensure sufficient hues of dermis and the correct ratio of penises/vaginas, fuck all else.

--
"It's fun to obey the machine" - Ralph Wiggum
1. Re:Now This by KiloByte · 2017-08-13 03:59 · Score: 1
  
  the only purpose of having a VP O' Diversity is to ensure sufficient hues of dermis and the correct ratio of penises/vaginas
  Actually, they don't even care about penises/vaginas, but about whether you claim to have one. Thus, apply lipstick, get a boob job, for a better cultural fit also dye your hair purple, and you're all set.
  You see, in the '30s your skin had to be white and your genitals unmutilated. The preferred skin color and shape of genitals have changed, but the whole concept stays the same.
  
  --
  The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
2. Re:Now This by Spy+Handler · 2017-08-13 04:51 · Score: 1
  
  whoa, that's brilliant!
  If you're 45 year old white/asian guy trying to get a SV job, just wear a dress and a wig and talk in falsetto and claim you're a Trans. You'll get hired right away.
  Just remember to sit when you pee in the gender-neutral bathroom.
3. Re:Now This by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 05:08 · Score: 0
  
  And if you can't properly answer any interview questions just quickly redirect the conversation by asking about their bathroom policy or insurance co-pays for hormone replacement therapy. It will keep them in defense mode and they will have no choice but to hire you to prevent a discrimination lawsuit.
4. Re:Now This by mrsam · 2017-08-13 05:39 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  As a 48 year old, white, straight male I am constantly getting harassed by headhunters, and my current employer seems to be in a constant state of a nervous breakdown, afraid that I could leave for greener pastures at any time.
  I understand that in some circles it is quite fashionable to be a victim, in order to seek sympathy and acceptance. I respectfully choose not to participate in the victim industry, or engage in victim mentality. Now, if you excuse me, I have to go back to hacking on this fine, beautiful weekend, in order to keep my skills up to date, and be employable...
5. Re:Now This by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:06 · Score: 0
  
  There are a number of reasons some older developers have a harder time getting hired than younger developers.
  1. Older developers are more expensive so the employer has to believe they are substantially more productive (using whatever measure of "productivity" the company values) than younger workers.
  2. Younger developers have less of a track record so you have to "roll the dice" and rely more on a hunch. When considering younger candidates without much of a track record, you're hoping for a few home runs and not too many strikeouts. When considering older candidates, if there's not something really impressive on their resume, you pretty much know they are mediocre performers at best. In other words, experience reveals mediocrity. You hire youngsters on potential and oldsters on track record.
  3. Older developers tend to have more family commitments -- kids to pick up from day care, soccer games to coach, kids they want to say "good night" to - or, even want to help them with their homework. These commitments tend to reduce the time they can spend working - esp. in crunch times (recovering schedule or dealing with a customer crisis). This may not be "fair", but would you pay an older roofer more money for the same job as a younger roofer just because the older roofer could do less jobs a year due to family commitments?
  However, older developers who are really sharp and keep up with the relevant aspects of technology (which, by the way, may have virtually nothing to do with what they were interested in, was relevant, or that they kept up on 30 years earlier) have little problem getting and holding good jobs. I know both types and it's really not hard to tell the difference (although, the individuals themselves often don't see it).
6. Re:Now This by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 07:28 · Score: 0
  
  As a 45 year old, white, straight male I am slightly more desirable than nuclear waste when it comes to being employed in tech nowadays
  That's probably more related to your skillset and attitude than anything else. I'm a white male in my 50s (I'm gay, but employers don't know that until after they make an offer), and I have had no problems finding jobs.
7. Re:Now This by phantomfive · 2017-08-13 08:22 · Score: 1
  
  I understand that in some circles it is quite fashionable to be a victim, in order to seek sympathy and acceptance. I respectfully choose not to participate in the victim industry, or engage in victim mentality. Now, if you excuse me, I have to go back to hacking on this fine, beautiful weekend, in order to keep my skills up to date, and be employable..
  Thankyou. Please enjoy your coding, and please release it as open source if you get a chance.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
8. Re:Now This by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 08:22 · Score: 0
  
  Not unique to Google. HP is wanting a younger workforce too.
  https://www.usatoday.com/story...
  The way they play the game is to open jobs to college graduates and people that have "less than two year's experience" (yep, that's true).
  Posting AC for obvious reasons.
9. Re: Now This by Brockmire · 2017-08-13 08:51 · Score: 1
  
  Can't he just wear a padded bra instead of a boob job?
10. Re:Now This by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 09:59 · Score: 0
  
  In contrast, my startup pivoted and my contract changed from build/release engineer to IT/customer support which required after hours work. Since I can't do after hours, they ended the contract. That same week, another "old white guy" was let go. Now they only have 2 left. Pretty soon, it will be all Indian and they'll have to deal with the diversity thing.
11. Re:Now This by PeeAitchPee · 2017-08-13 13:33 · Score: 1
  
  You're already at +5 insightful so I'll comment rather than mod you up further. You've already got it . . . it's not who you are or where you come from, it's what you *do* that matters. Stay on it. ;-)
12. Re:Now This by dbIII · 2017-08-13 16:35 · Score: 1
  
  As a 48 year old, white, straight male I am constantly getting harassed by headhunters
  Perversely that only happens when you have a job. It's kind of weird to see the headhunting still going on when there have been mass layoffs by similar companies and less qualified folks being chased than those freely available. I've seen that from the outside BTW so comments about my own ability are irrelevant.
13. Re:Now This by eclectro · 2017-08-13 17:04 · Score: 1
  
  I hope they prevail and some sort of precedent is established.
  You would think that companies might would learn after Lockheed Martin's flat out millions of dollars loss for their blatant and rampant age discrimination.
  
  --
  Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
14. Re:Now This by Antique+Geekmeister · 2017-08-13 20:34 · Score: 1
  
  > Perversely that only happens when you have a job.
  I've noticed this. I think that one issue is that they are often unable to ask your previous employers or reliable references for the real reason you left your last position. And much like dating, the fact that you have a stable, long-term relationship means that you know _how_, and are thus immediately more desirable.
15. Re:Now This by squiggleslash · 2017-08-14 02:01 · Score: 1
  
  Honestly, I think it depends on the company. There's an obsession with "young" in start-ups because (a) they think "Won't be boxed in by existing orthodoxy" and (b) (most important) cheap. Move to a mature business with a better handle on its long term IT requirements, and experience is a bonus, not a handicap.
  Most start-ups go bankrupt, and only a few companies get to continue being run after 20 years the way they were run after 2. Google is... well, people have a habit of not wanting to criticize a company that's making money hand over fist, and so any criticism of Google will have the "Well, how come they're successful and you're stuck in Florida if you know so much" replies, but the reality is Google could be better run, and they've made a lot of errors and misjudgements lately that wouldn't have been made by people with a more mature outlook.
  It's a dumb move to reject experience, a decent company thrives on diversity in every sphere. Google has problems with women, and now it apparently has problems with experienced developers. It's too entrenched and in control of its defacto monopolies to be circling the drain because of that, but it does make it more vulnerable.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
16. Re:Now This by jareth-0205 · 2017-08-14 02:58 · Score: 1
  
  As a 48 year old, white, straight male I am constantly getting harassed by headhunters, and my current employer seems to be in a constant state of a nervous breakdown, afraid that I could leave for greener pastures at any time.
  I understand that in some circles it is quite fashionable to be a victim, in order to seek sympathy and acceptance. I respectfully choose not to participate in the victim industry, or engage in victim mentality. Now, if you excuse me, I have to go back to hacking on this fine, beautiful weekend, in order to keep my skills up to date, and be employable...
  As you say yourself, you are in demand, therefore have no reason to "act like a victim". I know it's really self-affirming to put your success down to your own actions and so implicitly judge others for their 'weakness', but if you're not in their situation. If you were in a situation where maybe there weren't so many jobs, and on the receiving end of discrimination at every turn, you might feel differently.
  48 is not so old, try getting a new tech job at 60. Hopefully for us all by the time we get there the general culture will have changed.
17. Re:Now This by ebvwfbw · 2017-08-14 05:09 · Score: 1
  
  You're on the wrong coast. Get away from the left coast and you'll be fine.
18. Re:Now This by micahraleigh · 2017-08-14 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  What is your tech stack / general location?
19. Re:Now This by david_thornley · 2017-08-14 08:29 · Score: 1
  
  Another reason is that, when there are more jobs than people to fill them, most competent people have a job. When it's easy to find a warm body for a job slot, the headhunters don't need you, and you're quite likely unemployed.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
20. Re:Now This by dbIII · 2017-08-14 14:14 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think reason comes into it - the employment agencies are just set in their ways.
  Example - long ago when I was a recent graduate headhunters were hassling me despite a large government owned military lab shutting down and flooding the employment market with many far better qualified people prepared to work for just about anything they could get. Some ended up delivering pizza.
You need to speak to the Google pharisees again by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 03:35 · Score: -1, Offtopic

Jews believe this of others they call goyim/gentiles (any non-jew): Jews = biggest racists of all (for which they "jew guilt" you for no less! They're hypocrites known as thieves all thru history or were Argentines in the 1940 under Perrone, Spanish inquistion, France (1306), Egypt (despoiled/robbed by jews), Arabs (pre & post 1948), England (1330 Edward longshanks), Romans under titus, Russia pogroms and Germany who got rid of them from their nations nazi german's too? No. Driven into DESERTS ages ago! Don't wonder why after all those exilings above. Should anyone doubt any of this see Jacob Javits' crony Rosenthal spill the beans on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4zMVZ8HnFI/ where he called all Christianity fools for helping Israel and the biggest scam of all time per their beliefs below from their Talmud. This is the province of the synagogue of Satan (Khazar/Pharisees whom Jesus Christ himself kicked to the curb out of the temple):
Barbara Spectre, a jew, tells everyone it's jews orchestrating the muslim migrant problem in Europe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ/ . No migrant raping of women in Poland. Tons in Sweden. Do the math. Use common-sense. This is to get muslims and other goyim/gentiles to wipe one another out as incompatible cultures that will clash and always have.
George Soros who funds groups to create division in the USA?? A jew. One who sold his own jew people into death for the nazis. Zucker @ CNN is another frying publicly for lying about "russians" and John Bonifield a producer @ CNN said it is bs. Van Jones did also.
There are three types of people who call themselves Jews:
1. True Torah [Sephardic] Jews: these are the descendants of Prophet Jacob-Israel (Jacobites or Israelites) (about 5%-10% of all Jews)
2. Khazarian or Ashkenazi Jews: these are the descendants of a Turkic idol/phallic worshiping tribe who migrated to Russia in the 7th Century A.C. and whose nobility converted to Judaism in the 8th Century A.C. and now inhabit mostly Europe. (about 90%-95% of all Jews)
3. Zionist Jews: these are the ones from the 2 above who are pretending to be Jews for political reasons but whoâ(TM)re are actually Illuminists-Luciferian-Masonic-Satanists as Harold Wallace Rosenthal admits in this interview.
They are led by the neo-Pharisees (occult-priest-banklords). They want to establish a Zionist Luciferian state from the Nile to the Euphrates from where they plan to rule the Earth. The new Israeli Supreme Court funded by the Rothschilds Banklords is full of Masonic Symbols, just like the B.I.S. Bank of International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, which is the Mother of All Private Central Banks.
The hexagram symbol on the Israeli flag is the ancient Star of Moloch, a Satanic-Baal deity to which people were sacrificed. There is no such thing as a Star of David which the modern Jews have been fooled into believing; however, the True Torah Jews are not fooled by the Zionists Illuminatis and you can visit their websites for more info .
1. Sanhedrin 59a: "Murdering Goyim is like killing a wild animal."
2. Abodah Zara 26b: "Even the best of the Gentiles should be killed."
3. Sanhedrin 59a: "A goy (Gentile) who pries into The Law (Talmud) is guilty of death."
4. Yebhamoth 11b: "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age."
5. Schabouth Hag. 6d: "Jews may swear falsely by use of subterfuge wording."
6. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Do not save Goyim in danger of death."
7. Hilkkoth Akum X1: "Show no mercy to the Goyim."
8. Choschen Hamm 388, 15: "If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth."
9. Choschen Hamm 266,1: "A Jew may keep anything he finds which belongs to the Akum (Gentile). For he who returns lost propert
1. Re:You need to speak to the Google pharisees again by demonlapin · 2017-08-13 04:16 · Score: 2
  
  I mean, if all that isn't enough to get you to convert to Judaism, I don't really know what would do the job.
2. Re:You need to speak to the Google pharisees again by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 05:08 · Score: 1
  
  I've dated a few Jewish women. They were nice.
  Your enormous post looks like a bunch of delusional conspiracy theory drivel. I didn't bother to read it.
3. Re:You need to speak to the Google pharisees again by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:13 · Score: 0
  
  I appreciate the sentiment, but, you know...
  Try giving us the TL;DR version next time. Someone might actually read it.
It's for social justice! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 04:11 · Score: 0

These stale, pale males tend to be older, so any attempt to increase the vibrant diversity of Google's workforce will necessarily impact older workers.
google is terrible... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 04:23 · Score: 0

but their worst crime is the whopping piece of shit known as android.
If you're a transexual Eskimo by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 04:23 · Score: 0

You're HIRED!!!
If you're white and 32, you're FIRED!!!!
1. Re: If you're a transexual Eskimo by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 06:21 · Score: 0
  
  what do i need to be a transexual Eskimo?
  can i convert?
Re: You need to speak to the Google pharisees agai by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 04:33 · Score: 0

It bugs me that the second parenthesis is never closed.
Re: You need to speak to the Google pharisees agai by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 05:21 · Score: 0

Can someone mod him down? It takes too much effort to scroll through it's sheer length.... he should post as an article on a separate thread if he want to bitch about stuff so much.
Doesn't include contractors... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-08-13 06:14 · Score: 1

Google's employees are managers and engineers. Everyone else are contractors. I worked at Google in my late 30's (2007-08) and early 40's (2011-12) on various contract assignments. No one cared about my age when I worked on the IT help desk, swept the floor in the inventory warehouse, or rearranged the cables for the sixth time in the data center because the 20-something network engineer had a bug up his ass.
1. Re:Doesn't include contractors... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 07:06 · Score: 0
  
  You aren't the target of this article. The hired help is interchangeable.
2. Re:Doesn't include contractors... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-08-13 07:31 · Score: 1
  
  You aren't the target of this article. The hired help is interchangeable.
  Without the hired help, engineers would have to scrub toilets while management watches.
3. Re: Doesn't include contractors... by Brockmire · 2017-08-13 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  I don't think you made any point. You did nonconsecutive contract busy work that didn't require any engineering. Telling you to rewire for the 6th time reads like "get the fuck out of my face, you're annoying". I guess you made the point the 20 something didn't care for you.
4. Re: Doesn't include contractors... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-08-13 09:20 · Score: 1
  
  You did nonconsecutive contract busy work that didn't require any engineering.
  My last contract for Google was building out a test bed data center. The engineering in question was putting the shit together. Some of which wasn't well thought out and had to be changed quite frequently. I left the contract with a glowing recommendation from the project lead.
5. Re: Doesn't include contractors... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 09:47 · Score: 0
  
  1) He wanted to get rid of you.
  2) You used that glowing recommendation ... to stay at exactly the same pay scale.
  winner is you
6. Re: Doesn't include contractors... by __aaclcg7560 · 2017-08-13 10:10 · Score: 1
  
  1) He wanted to get rid of you.
  The project lead brought me back to do a one-week contract for port mapping verification and cleaning up.
  
  2) You used that glowing recommendation ... to stay at exactly the same pay scale.
  The recommendation was instrumental in getting my current job with $5/hr raise and a fantastic benefit package.
  
  winner is you
  Absolutely!
7. Re: Doesn't include contractors... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 10:18 · Score: 0
  
  You seem content with very little. Why not just say it that way instead of making it sound like you're this raging success?
  You're like a grade-schooler excited that his favorite teacher gave him a gold star.
Well, I liked my young co-workers, and vice-versa by rbrander · 2017-08-13 06:37 · Score: 5, Insightful

May I interject this is a silicon valley thing more than it is an everywhere thing. There's certainly some point at which younger bosses start to disregard older opinions, but especially if you've put in many of those years in the company, I found GenX and Millenials quite willing to listen to me and learn from me. (And I'm one of those jerks that will get his back up about an issue and sends around multi-page e-mail rants; people didn't read those, mostly, but they didn't stop listening when I had short, relevant comments to make.)
Granted, I worked at the opposite end of some kind of job-type spectrum: municipal utilities, where knowing what was different about how we put water pipes in the ground 20 years back is useful information. And most new ideas are suspicious. But, you know, a third of our economy is in things like government and basic services that are NOT dynamically changing with consumer fashions every year; there's a lot of good jobs with that "dull" part of the economy.
One funny thing is that I was teaching latest-thing high-tech to those people 20 and 30 years my junior, some of them were my bosses. I'm a civil engineer, but also had a CompSci degree, and kept up with many new things even if not the very latest. So they would be coming to me for help just doing Excel VBA macros or basic cgi-bin web solutions when the corporate apps were very clumsy. And I lost count of the people I taught basic SQL skills to, because "Report Applications" like Crystal Reports or Business Objects are a huge pain to learn when you just want a simple answer to a basic query.
I left at 57 to a lot of backpats and almost-tearful cries that they couldn't manage without me. They have, of course, though I've answered a lot of phone calls about How I Did That One Thing for them.
If Silicon Valley is indeed a dysfunctional family of overwork and discrimination and backstabbing competition, maybe you should stop picking your career based on Hollywood imagery of superhackers, not to mention dreams of millions before you're 30. Your odds are about the same as that high-school star quarterback who imagines a life starring in the NFL. Your odds suck, the place is a toxic-waste bin, so the game's not worth the candle.
Once enough people say, "screw silicon valley, I want to work with sane people", maybe silicon valley will have to start treating employees a little better.
more on the way by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 07:03 · Score: 0

Just wait until all the straight people start suing. Google just about exclusively hires transsexuals and homosexuals. It's ridiculous. It's liberalism gone completely crazy.
Re: You need to speak to the Google pharisees agai by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 07:16 · Score: 0

I was so down for getting into jew hating today, but the manual is too freaking long!
Look buddy, Im down for inflicting violence and discrimintary practices on someone, but you have to give me the 411 in like a paragraph!
Whatever happened to do no evil? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 07:51 · Score: 0

The rich are too rich, companies are paying way too much at the top and not enough at the bottom. It's corruption, pure and simple. So long as we mostly all work for unethical multi-national or private corporations, there can be no real freedom or justice.
Over 40 Taboo in Silicon Valley and Elsewhere by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 07:52 · Score: 2, Interesting

I left Silicon Valley when I was 38, seeing the writing on the wall - having started to get worse and worse performance reviews (along with my late 30's peers). I could see the setup coming.
So, I bailed, and moved back east, where I thought I might escape the discrimination. Hah. Wishful thinking.
I managed to get a new job with a somewhat large company that makes utility measurement equipment. About a year after I was hired, the CEO came to our office for a global townhall, during which he actually said that "we have to become a younger company," and to that end, there would be quotas on hiring fresh graduates and limits on hiring people over 40. He actually said there would be limits on over-40 hiring.
Apparently, this is not against the law if it is implemented by positional limits - i.e. eliminating "senior positions" and opening more "junior positions." They just say "well we don't need any more senior engineers but we need a boatload of junior engineers," and that's perfectly okay - or so an employment lawyer told me.
This really just solidified it with me that all laws do the opposite of what their title says. A law that says it is "anti-discrimination" is really just a manual for how to discriminate.
1. Re:Over 40 Taboo in Silicon Valley and Elsewhere by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 08:53 · Score: 0
  
  >A law that says it is "anti-discrimination" is really just a manual for how to discriminate.
  mindblown. valuable insight.
2. Re:Over 40 Taboo in Silicon Valley and Elsewhere by micahraleigh · 2017-08-15 04:02 · Score: 1
  
  Reminds me of how the Committee of Public Safety facilitated the executions during the French Revolution
Age Discrimination? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 08:24 · Score: -1

How is there age discrimination when most employees leave? The money looks great until you factor in rent and/or the time it takes to get there and on top of all that youâ(TM)re working 50/60/70 hour weeks? Thanks, but no thanks! Youâ(TM)d be have to be an idiot to stay.
Really by Oroka · 2017-08-13 08:24 · Score: 1

So, new company comes along, does things differently, the old style programmer does not work in the new dynamic... just sue? I build houses. My entire crew are all techie nerd guys. We communicate alot, 'thats not how its traditionally done' means squat, we are always looking for new methods, materials, and tools to build faster and stronger. If I do or dont hire some old stiff carpenter who wont change with the times and is a drag on the team... he can just sue cause I didnt hire him or sue because he didnt work well with the crew and we let him go... wow
Re:Well, I liked my young co-workers, and vice-ver by phantomfive · 2017-08-13 08:34 · Score: 2

May I interject this is a silicon valley thing more than it is an everywhere thing
It's not a Silicon Valley thing either, it's just a whiner thing. There are plenty of jobs available in Silicon Valley for people who have the skills.

There are not quite so many jobs available for people who still use tables to lay out their HTML, or who only know COBOL. (There are jobs for people who only know COBOL, but not in Silicon Valley).

There are certainly companies that discriminate on age (and Google might be one of them, I don't know), but there are also companies that discriminate based on what you wear. The proper thing to do is move on, and find a company that doesn't. There are plenty.

--
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Re: You need to speak to the Google pharisees agai by Brockmire · 2017-08-13 08:34 · Score: 1

Jews are a higher percentage of funny people. There's an above average number of gays in Hollywood and media. There's an above average number of left handed people in Hollywood, media and creative industries. If you're gay, Jewish and left handed, you've hit the trifecta.
The Bitch is going down. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 08:42 · Score: 0

Fuck you Google. Your phony virtue signaling is about to explode in your face. Schadenfreude, baby, schadenfreude.
Study : Google now more evil than msft by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 09:48 · Score: 0

Yeah, made that up, but whatever happened to the gates-borg meme on /. ... maybe need a new Google-borg meme...
1. Re:Study : Google now more evil than msft by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 10:04 · Score: 0
  
  More evil than LSMFT.
HR departments are the problem by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 09:53 · Score: 2, Insightful

Years ago when they still sent tech people to staff booths at job fairs I would hand over a resume, the tech person would look at it. We would talk for a bit about what the team did and in some cases I would have a novel solution to the current problem that would save the company money. Everything seemed to be a fit and they promise to call me in a week or similar. Everything goes wonderfully till the formal application goes to the HR department. Then everyone just stops returning my phone calls/emails.
Currently working a contract position. Everyone comes to me for help. Was told I would become direct soon. Told to go on the corporate website to apply and then they will process me. Once it got to HR, everyone stalled and started telling inconsistent stories. I have been stalled out for over 9 months now.
I look about 15 years younger than I am. I do not look like I have grandchildren in school. I once had an HR person hand back my application within a minute saying I had messed up my date of birth. It was not wrong.
As a contractor, at this place I have to pass multiple background checks that most people do not pass and I have never failed one so that is not the issue.
Either I am on some sort of hidden black list or they do not want to pay for my health insurance. They take contractors here who are old enough to be on Social Security or close but new hire directs are all in their early 30's
1. Re:HR departments are the problem by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 10:14 · Score: 0
  
  You have to face the truth. Don't get mad, get even. You have the perfect excuse for a shooting rampage. And who could blame you. Imagine stepping into the grist mill and "chopping wood" so to speak with an AR-15. You are a smart guy. Why not go for the gold while you are at it and get into the record books. I'm not sure what the max number is, but look it up and go for it.k Plenty of high capacity magazines are in order. Be sure to chain the doors. Don't get mad. Get even.
  You are good enough, smart enough, but gosh darn it, you are being disrespected!
2. Re:HR departments are the problem by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 20:33 · Score: 1
  
  > Years ago when they still sent tech people to staff booths at job fairs I would hand over a resume, the tech person would look at it. We would talk for a bit about what the team did and in some cases I would have a novel solution to the current problem that would save the company money. Everything seemed to be a fit and they promise to call me in a week or similar. Everything goes wonderfully till the formal application goes to the HR department. Then everyone just stops returning my phone calls/emails.
  I was recently interviewed virtually where they insisted I "put on my web camera". the director of the program, who couldn't read code, much less write it, was supposed to be giving me an code-light interview. Her questions were all related to how I implemented logging. The actual algorithm, she couldn't understand. Nevermind I reinvented an algorithm that was "novel" (patented recently) and optimal within 5 minutes of thinking on the problem, in a completely new area.
  Did I get the job? Nope. TOO OLD.
  This crap about ageism, isn't fiction, its fact. And they're active about pushing you out. Either with cheaper h1-b labor; or cheap young grads who don't know shit, and think they do because they can link into someones library who DOES know what they're doing.
3. Re:HR departments are the problem by david_thornley · 2017-08-14 08:46 · Score: 1
  
  Why do you have date of birth showing anywhere? If the application has it, consider filing a complaint with your appropriate state agency, or talk to a lawyer who specializes in this sort of thing. They don't need to know it until you're hired, and even asking for it opens them up to lawsuits.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
4. Re:HR departments are the problem by david_thornley · 2017-08-14 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  My solution was hair dye. I'm serious about this. It did wonders for turning good interviews into job offers.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
need context by buddyglass · 2017-08-13 10:51 · Score: 1

Without additional context, I can't judge whether an average age of 29 is "bad" or not. Is that for the whole company, or just technical staff? How do other tech companies compare? i.e. is Google much worse than its peers?
1. Re:need context by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 20:46 · Score: 0
  
  It's good if you like to date *much younger*. 29 years old would be.... roughly half my age.
2. Re:need context by micahraleigh · 2017-08-15 04:05 · Score: 1
  
  What's bad is Zuckerberg sending out a memo saying no hires over 29.
3. Re:need context by buddyglass · 2017-08-16 05:25 · Score: 1
  
  If true, that's not only bad but highly illegal.
4. Re:need context by micahraleigh · 2017-08-16 06:22 · Score: 1
  
  All three. It is true (i.e. it happened). It is bad. It is illegal.
Can't wait... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 14:37 · Score: 0

...for Google Asshole Shawn Willden to tell us that age discrimination is a Good Thing!!
Pure Evil by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-13 23:22 · Score: 0

Mass exodus already underway on all aspects of the alphabet
Google is now Evil (TM) by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-14 01:23 · Score: 0

Fuck 'em.
That's all I got to say about that.
Google: Be creepy, but don't get caught by Anonymous Coward · 2017-08-15 01:18 · Score: 0

Google: "Be creepy, but don't get caught." is their new moto.
They gave up the "don't be evil" moto a long time ago. (5 yrs?)
Smart people block all google websites at the network layer. That makes it hard to cheap just this 1 time.
Re:Well, I liked my young co-workers, and vice-ver by micahraleigh · 2017-08-15 04:00 · Score: 1

"The proper thing to do ..."

Shudder ... shudder ...

My ancestors moved to America so they could make their own choices instead of hearing disguised opinions about what is proper.