Slashdot Mirror
From Google To Yahoo, Tech Grapples With White Male Discontent (bloomberg.com)
Reader joshtops shares a Bloomberg report: Google isn't the only Silicon Valley employer being accused of hostility to white men. Yahoo and Tata Consultancy Services were already fighting discrimination lawsuits brought by white men before Google engineer James Damore ignited a firestorm -- and got himself fired -- with an internal memo criticizing the company's diversity efforts and claiming women are biologically less suited than men to be engineers. The Yahoo case began last year when two men sued, claiming they'd been unfairly fired after managers allegedly manipulated performance evaluations to favor women. They claim Marissa Mayer approved the review process and was involved in their terminations, and last month a judge ordered the former chief executive be deposed. TCS, meanwhile, is fighting three men who claim the Mumbai-based firm discriminates against non-Indians at its U.S. offices.
White males are not very PC today but it's hard to run a company without any of them. The trick is to find a balance where you treat them shitty enough to make the left happy but not so shitty they go somewhere more tolerant.
I gotta say, I get treated pretty nicely. When I was a twenty-something I was really resentful because I couldn't figure out how to get dates. I want to believe that there is more to this kerfuffle than that, but I really just don't get it. Why are my youthful brethren so discontent?
The memo not only does NOT make the claim that women are less suited to tech roles and leadership roles, it makes the counter claim, that men have designed those roles to make them less friendly to women and that by altering those roles we can improve diversity and decrease the gender gap.
But I've yet to see a single neoliberal source treat the memo honestly, every neoliberal source I've seen treats Damore radically different than his behavior reflects. I don't agree with everything he says, but to claim he is against diversity is straight slander here.
>> claiming women are biologically less suited than men to be engineers.
Come on, He didn't make such a claim. He said biology may play a part in women's preferences in choosing to go into the field.
With a CS degree who can't find work as a programmer. It's got nothing to do with skin color or sex. None of us can compete with India. Sad thing is a lot of us voted Trump because he at least have IT workers lip service. Last I heard his plan was to cut back on low skill immigrants in favor of high skill ones. E.g. the ones gunning for the same jobs as me and everyone else reading this post...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
The kind that have vanished. There's nothing more dangerous than a man, any man, with no job prospects and therefore no marriage prospects.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I've never experienced this white male discontent that became so popular after Trump got elected. Then again, I grew up in a multicultural Silicon Valley. I don't have a problem with getting on public transit and hearing a dozen languages other than English. I've never been prevented from getting the tech jobs that I wanted. The only time race became an issue was when Cisco only had vegan pizzas at company events to avoid offending the Indians, leaving us meat eaters on the sidelines to go without.
And better yet, treat them exactly the same as you would treat women or minorities. That means no discriminating against people based on gender or race (as is alleged by the "discontent white males")
Slashdot, that's not what the memo said.
You can agree with the memo or you can't, but at least get the f$#@ing facts straight.
I've been in the computing industry for decades now. Despite the recent rise of so-called "social justice", things are worse now than they've ever been.
I've worked alongside many women since the 1970s. I've worked alongside open homosexuals, and even some transgendered people, since the 1980s. I've worked with people having every imaginable shade of skin color over the years. And you know what? We all got along fine. We accomplished some great technological achievements. We didn't spend all day fixated on things like gender, sexual preference, and skin color. We had real work to do, and we did this work together.
What we're seeing now is a relatively new phenomenon. It really wasn't an issue in our industry until leftists came in and started segregating people into different groups based on various irrelevant traits.
Before this leftist agitation, the only factor we really cared about was merit. The one and only question that mattered was "Can you get the work done properly, on time and under budget?". It was not "What color is your skin?" or "What gender do you think you are?" or "What kind of sexual intercourse do you prefer?".
Our industry's focus used to be computer hardware and computer software. Now the industry is more focused on penises, vaginas, anal intercourse, sex change operations, and skin color than it is about anything having to do with computing.
I know, I know, somebody will trot out the "Get off my lawn you damn kids!" or "Shaddap, gramps!" or "Remembering the past better than it was." lines. But the reality is that these are recent issues, and they were introduced by leftists. Until these leftists, many of them with absolutely no technical abilities at all, showed up and infiltrated our industry, we had a natural diversity that was unmatched. Leftists manufactured the division that we see today. Before then, the computing industry was far more concerned about merit and ability than it ever was about gender, or sexual preference, or skin color, or other meaningless attributes like those.
Wow. Now imagine we called black people being discriminated against "black discontent."
Slashdot, your bias is leaking.
Minorities certainly face much more difficulty than I do in my industry, as do women. I have absolutely seen people of high skill underpaid because of gender or race, or discounted in hiring by managers. I can certainly understand why minorities and women struggle at times in the tech industry, it is in many ways, set against them.
But other white men? That I have a much harder time swallowing. I have worked at companies owned and run by women and I have never once seen a white man passed up for a position if he had the qualifications. When I hear a white man complaining that he can't get ahead in his career due because of affirmative action then all the evidence I have in my life tells me that that man probably isn't as good at his job as he thinks. I interview people all the time who are not nearly as good at what they do as they think they are, in this case, that seems the most likely scenario... or at least much more likely to be the case than a highly skilled, high performing white man being laid off from a firm.
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women..." -H. Simpson
White men are being oppressed, that's true. But probably less so than any other group on the planet.
Well here's the thing, if you treat everyone equally then you end up with a majority of white males in various roles such as tech.
Different people are interested in different things, and different cultures have different biases. Girls in school for instance are usually not interested in technology, and their peers will shun the few that are.
People are different, they have different interests, different upbringing, different aspirations. Trying to artificially distort the proportion of different groups in the workplace is stupid. If people were interested in doing a particular job they would have studied for it, learned about it and applied for positions.
In all my years working in tech, the vast majority of job applicants who have applied for jobs i've been responsible for have been white or asian males.
If you want women and other minorities to do tech roles, then look at schools and culture. If people are interested in these fields at an early age, and not discouraged (or bullied) away from them by their peers in school, then they will pursue careers in the subjects that most interest them.
Trying to force "diversity quotas" and other stupid shit is simply a form of discrimination against the presently dominant groups, and will result in an overall lower standard of employee. As minorities account for far fewer applicants, you will need to apply far lower standards in order to ensure the same number of successful applicants vs the larger majority group.
There are also many professions which are typically not taken by white males, nursing for instance - are any steps being taken to increase the number of white males working as nurses?
If 99 women and 1 man apply for 5 nursing positions, how does the hospital satisfy a diversity quota saying that 50% of nurses should be male?
What if the diversity quota is 20%, but the one man applying has no qualifications or experience and yet 30 of the women are highly qualified and experienced?
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
with an internal memo criticizing the company's diversity efforts and claiming women are biologically less suited than men to be engineers.
At no point in the memo was this ever stated.
I'm fucking tired of disingenuous assholes trying to spin something that says one thing, into something else to further their agenda.
Disagree with the memo all you like, but at least have the integrity to argue against the points it raised instead of making up some bullshit that it didn't say.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
1.) He did _NOT_ criticize Googles diversity efforts per se. In fact, he applauded them. He did however express concerns that the way they are executes isn't effective and/or counter-productive to the cause and provided educated conclusions for this presumption.
2.) He did _NOT_ claim that women are biologically less suited for tech jobs. He used solid state-of-the-art scientific research results to find explanations why women might not be interested in taking tech jobs other that the standard arguably totally insuifficient "OGM! WTF! WHITE MALE OPPRESSION OF WOMEN!" narrative/explanation.
Please quit the lying/irresponsible spreading of falsehoods and inform yourself.
Just be an educated slashdotter and question the official group-think narrative. Thank you.
Here's to help you out:
Jordan Peterson interview with James Demore (citations linked in the description of the video)
The actual paper/memo that James Demore wrote
You're welcome.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I think it's mostly because people have been told they are under attack and should be angry at anti-white male discrimination.
I get the same thing with immigration. People are supportive when they hear my wife is trying to immigrate, but moments later rant about the being too many immigrants and them not speaking English in public.
In other words there is a disconnect between the idea of immigrants (bad) and the ones they actually know (good), that gets rationalised somehow.
They say "I don't mean you," but they really do. If they didn't know us, just saw her ahead of them in the checkout queue or heard her not speaking English, they would assume the worst.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
"If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself." - Joseph Goebbels (actually a misattribution but is apropos here)