A 'Netflix Tax'? Yes, and It's Already a Thing in Some States (usatoday.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: Your monthly bill for Netflix, Amazon, Hulu and other streaming entertainment services could go up soon as states such as Illinois try to find ways to offset declining sales taxes and other revenue shortfalls. Chicago, Pennsylvania and Florida have already passed a so-called Netflix tax, and cities such as Pasadena, Calif. have broached the issue. These taxes can translate to additional fees of less than $1 each month to consumers. But over the months -- and tacked onto multiple streaming subscriptions -- they might add up to $50 or more each year. Netflix, consumer tax groups and tech trade organizations have voiced their opposition to such taxes, warning they can be unfair and deter innovation. Some opponents have initiated legal challenges, and at least one state has shelved plans after a court decision. But state and local governments aren't likely to halt fresh efforts as falling pay-TV subscriptions and video rentals mean there's less opportunity to tax cable bills or charge sales tax at the cash register.

Comments

govenrment loves telecom

[stabiesoft]

Taxes and fees are crazy high on phone (land is really crazy with the subscriber fee). The local city utility loves to tack on weird stuff onto the electric/water/trash/sewer bills. They just figure people will not notice. Netflix is a service almost like telco, so really I'm surprised it took them this long.

Re:govenrment loves telecom

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. I have to pay over $15 per month taxes on my home phone. It's complete bullshit and I've been considering cancelling the service entirely.

Re:govenrment loves telecom

[sims 2]

Our phone bill at work is $35/mo for a POTS line with unlimited long distance however the actual bill is $58.76/mo after all the other taxes and fees.

$23.76 in tax/fees

Over 40% of the bill.

That's a 67.88% tax rate!

Re:govenrment loves telecom

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup- this is why I pay for VoIP and check the "Not in the United States/Canada" box. I get a big warning every time I login: "You have stated you are using this VoIP service from outside of the US or Canada". Saves me a few bucks. I already have MULTIPLE devices I can dial 911 with including a cell phone.

This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[rsilvergun]

on the rich. The government still needs money to run. And despite what the rich's media outlets tell you there's no magic 'government waste' to cut that makes the need for taxes go away. So you either start cutting essential services (fixing roads, police, fire dept, etc. Not listing schools, we already cut those) or you come up with taxes like these that target the working class.

The Working Class are the only ones with any money that don't have multi-billion dollar media empires and lobbying arms sticking up for them. The used to, we called those 'Unions' an shut them down because they got a little corrupt and so instead of fixing them we threw baby out with bathwater.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

If I moved to where my job is I'd need a 500% raise to afford a mortgage or the rent.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[El Cubano]

The government still needs money to run. And despite what the rich's media outlets tell you there's no magic 'government waste' to cut that makes the need for taxes go away.

That is where you are wrong.

Have a look at an earlier comment I made in this discussion.

Basically, sales tax revenues in Illinois are up 10% over four years. Gas taxes are also up. Granted, income taxes are down. That said, gas taxes go for roads and transportation, so they actually have more funding for that now that tax revenues have gone up. I am sure that income tax revenues being down have some impact, but all those specific taxes being up should mean that those specific things for which the taxes are levied should be in better shape.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

So you either start cutting essential services (fixing roads, police, fire dept, etc. Not listing schools, we already cut those) or you come up with taxes like these that target the working class.

What do you mean by "or" ? They can do both, and in many cases are. Check out the transportation spending metrics. Even accounting for completed construction, the increase in traffic is met by a decrease in spending,

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Rockoon]

If I moved to where my job is I'd need a 500% raise to afford a mortgage or the rent.

The government is screwing you in multiple ways. Scarcity of housing is just one of the ways.

Whats your reaction? Who are you blaming? What do you intend to do about it?

Personally I vote. Every election. The one federal election every 4 years is the least of my concerns.

What discussions have you had with the most local politicians? Do you even know who your town council is? Do you even know what they do?

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[spaceman375]

You are fooling yourself if you think taxes collected go to the thing they are "earmarked" for. People have died because the tax on phone lines that was supposed to go to 911 installations was instead used for police benefits like dry cleaning and other garbage (NYC). Once the government has the money, it's reallocated and slush-funded all over the place, NOT where it should be at all. How much money from state lotteries has gone to the schools it was intended for? Precious little I'm afraid.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[El Cubano]

How much money from state lotteries has gone to the schools it was intended for? Precious little I'm afraid.

Hence my comment about there being a serious problem with fiscal policy. You were more direct than I was.

I remember when Florida instituted its state lottery. There were big promises of more funding for education. What actually happened was that the state legislature basically reduced the general fund budgetary obligation for education funding by whatever amount the state lottery kicked in. In that way, the state lottery became the exact same sort of slush fund you describe, while still technically conforming to the letter of the promise "more funding for schools." It was pretty shady, if you ask me.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[sexconker]

I remember Amtrak reps coming to my school and telling us how great the CA HSR project would be, to talk to our parents about it, etc. It was under the guise of a railroad safety assembly.

This was decades before the 2008 vote, before CHSRA was even formed. I enjoyed voting no on it as I recalled the stupid assembly with an over-excited lady in a cartoonish train conductor costume asking kids where they'd like to go on a train.

Of course, CA being CA, my vote didn't mean shit next to the masses of fools who bought into the obvious boondoggle.

My SOP when voting is to vote no all new taxes, bond initiatives, etc. Maybe one day if the state/country isn't squandering obscene sums on useless shit I'll grant them fair consideration for such proposals. My guess is they'll continue to subsidize water for idiots who grow grapes in a desert and ship the wine to a separate continent, increase welfare programs, fail to tax megacorps and the very wealthy to any appreciable degree, etc. all while failing to maintain roads or improve public education. So fuck 'em.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[ShanghaiBill]

If I moved to where my job is I'd need a 500% raise to afford a mortgage or the rent.

The high property values are a result of government imposed artificial scarcity. Relatively rich landowners are using the government to enforce high rents and property prices on people that are much less wealthy. Instead of taxing the rich more, maybe we should just reduce their unfair subsidies.

How Zoning Laws Exacerbate Inequality
Zoning as opportunity hoarding
How Anti-Growth Sentiment Thwarts Equality

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

The government still needs money to run. And despite what the rich's media outlets tell you there's no magic 'government waste' to cut that makes the need for taxes go away.

That is where you are wrong.

Have a look at an earlier comment I made in this discussion.

And? A raise in sales tax has nothing to do with the the sentences you quoted....
The poster is making the assertion that all the claims about balancing budgets by "cutting government waste" are lies - there isn't enough "waste" to cut that would obviate the need for taxes.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[LeftCoastThinker]

Or, alternatively, this is what happens when you destroy the job market like Obama did for the last 8 years with massive new regulation and Obamacare while simultaneously trying to buy votes by eliminating the work requirement for welfare recipients and massively expanding entitlement programs... The rich already pay 80% of all tax in the US http://www.newsmax.com/Finance... while the "poor" 45% Democrat voting block who thinks the rich don't pay enough pay ZERO taxes but enjoy all the general benefits as well as free healthcare, free housing, free food, free phones... the list goes on. http://www.marketwatch.com/sto...

That said, the federal government as well as most states mentioned don't have an income problem, they have a spending problem.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Salgak1]

My default vote: vote against the incumbent. If no incumbent, vote for the one with the lesser amount of political experience.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Koreantoast]

Honestly, given the fiscal disarray some states like Illinois are in, even taxing the rich isn't going to magically fix the financial problems. Taxes are going to have to be raised for everyone, and especially as some traditional taxes like cable (cord cutters) or fuel (increase in electric vehicles, fuel efficient cars) begin dropping off, states need to find new sources of revenue. If states want to do this properly though, they should just raise taxes on ISP's both fixed and wireless. Tacking a tax on top of services feels both like a double dip and may be difficult to enforce especially if the services are based overseas where states don't have any leverage to force them to collect the tax.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Rockoon]

Thats a pretty good way of doing it so long as you dont intend to make an informed decision.

Uninformed decisions, however, arent correlated with fixing any specific problems.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[sims 2]

Well the deal with the lotteries was they figured out how much they expected the lotteries would bring in and took that much out of their allocated funding then when the lotto didn't bring in as much as expected the schools ended up with even less.

Reminds me of the amazon tax that just went into effect here recently the state said it wasn't going to help their budget as they had already allocated the money they thought they would get from amazon in the budget before it passed.

It's a nice shell game they claim the money is going to help one thing (and the money really does go there) but they take away other funding (to run other projects) so the intended project (like schools) ends up with the same funding as before or worse.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Gravis Zero]

Or, alternatively, this is what happens when you destroy the job market...

A) If environmental regulation is slowly becoming onerous then it's a sign you are doing something very wrong and should change. Frankly, companies that pollute the environment should be 100% financially responsible for cleaning it up.
B) The renewable energy market has created 10x the number of jobs that it's "destroyed".
C) Coal jobs are being lost natural gas, nothing else.

The rich already pay 80% of all tax in the US

$100K/yr isn't what it used to be, so not a qualifier for being "rich". How much are the people that make $1M/yr paying? Also, instead of just the income tax, let's include ALL taxes. For some reason taxation is highly regressive which means the people with the least end up paying the largest percentage. Let's turn that around.

while the "poor" 45% Democrat voting block who thinks the rich don't pay enough pay ZERO taxes

The poor pay zero taxes because their pay hasn't increased for the last 40 years while the value of their income has decreased for the last 40 years which has caused them to fall below the poverty line. Yes, for some reason, you can have a full time job and still be impoverished because assholes aren't paying you what you are really worth.

but enjoy all the general benefits as well as free healthcare, free housing, free food, free phones...

Literally none of those things are free. I would also point out that Republicans voters are the ones who benefit the most from the ACA which is why despite having majority control of The Senate, The House and the presidency, Republican politicians were incapable and unwilling to reduce the coverage by the ACA.

That said, the federal government as well as most states mentioned don't have an income problem, they have a spending problem.

Yeah, who needs the police, firefighters, hospitals, schools or any of that shit, right? How about we cut subsides to all energy companies and farmers? Then lets go further and tax companies/farmers the exact amount of money that it costs to clean up their pollution. The free market would absolutely eviscerate the market of polluters as it exists today and solar would be the preferred energy source and beef would be 25x the cost of chicken.

I'm all for the free market as long as they are taxed based on the amount of damage they do to the planet.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Gravis Zero]

states need to find new sources of revenue.

Wrong, states merely need to tax the people that are doing the damage. For example, large trucks do 10000x the damage to the road as a normal car so why don't we tax them based on how much damage they do? Whenever a company releases pollution into the environment, they should be charged the amount that it costs to clean that up. This would upend the power structure of lots of states which is why they don't want to do that because then where will they get their campaign funding from?

What we need to do is understood but actually following through with it will take someone that's willing to do the right thing even at their own expense, not these political idiots without any balls.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[schwit1]

Past Illinois politicians agreed to provide city workers with platinum pensions in return for union support. Now those periodic pension payments are eating up a significant percentage of the revenue.

-
Connecticut ran into the same problem and tried to tax its way out of it. It had the opposite effect because some big corporations(GE and Aetna) and wealthy residents moved to better managed states, which caused a reduction in revenue. Now Hartford is teetering on bankruptcy.

The bottom line is you can't tax your way out of a an ongoing problem caused by graft.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[guruevi]

You young'in', go back to history class before you spout such non-sense.

There is MASSIVE waste in government, we used to be able to go to the moon on the equivalent value (adjusted for inflation) of the current NASA budget and today even though the cost of rockets and engineering has gone down significantly, they can barely keep the lights on for a few weather satellites and a portion of the n-th iteration of a space station (the US used to have their own).

The US and many governments around the world used to drive world wars for decades on a small portion of today's budgets, now, a couple of debacles in the Middle East that have raged for hundreds of years practically bankrupted the US government.

And Unions were created by, for and ran by the mafia and when the government cracked down, the power vacuum created the opportunity for corporate takeovers of the unions which kept wages low and promotions fixed and bankrupted Detroit and most rust belt states.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Neuronwelder]

Very glad you vote. I hope you vet your candidates well!!!

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

Normal people do not have the time to research what the candidates work like hell to hide from us which is what they really think and where their loyalties lie (where the money comes from)

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[srmalloy]

You are fooling yourself if you think taxes collected go to the thing they are "earmarked" for. People have died because the tax on phone lines that was supposed to go to 911 installations was instead used for police benefits like dry cleaning and other garbage (NYC). Once the government has the money, it's reallocated and slush-funded all over the place, NOT where it should be at all.

It's a two-step process. First, because expense X is receiving money from a dedicated tax/fee, the legislature diverts money that had been coming out of the general fund for that expense, because it's being paid for by the special tax. Never mind that the special tax was needed because the share of the general fund that it had been getting wasn't enough for the expenditures that needed to be made -- now there's the special tax, and if it's not enough, the legislature can just point at the taxpayers and declare that they're not doing enough to fund that expense the way the tax was supposed to. After the allocation from the general fund has been moved elsewhere, then the special tax can be raided -- on a temporary basis for a more 'urgent' need, which lets them pull the general-fund allocation for need, after which the more urgent need is no longer temporary, and the tax has been de facto repurposed.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[SvnLyrBrto]

> destroy the job market like Obama did

Yeah. That darn Obama and his sub-5% unemployment rate. Damn him for the job market that has recruiters messaging me daily based on a LinkedIn profile I haven't updated since I changed jobs 9 months ago. That's sooo annoying, you know? And it's just bloody AWFUL that said job change was the fastest and easiest in my life. I was really looking forward to a few months of dealing with recruiters and interviewers. And that $7500 referral bonus I picked up from bringing a friend into the company... how DARE Obama create a job market like this? Who does he think he is? Why, I spent many agonizing minutes with a calculator deciding whether it was better to save it, or pay down my student loans. Man, I tell ya... that Obama economy... what a downer.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

I moved to New Hampshire to fight for freedom and liberty. The Free State Project is a migration project that aims to and has gathered thousands of activists together in one place who desire freedom over of poor excuses for eliminating freedom: ie "safety" and other FUD. Fortunately NH is lower in terms of taxes and I got a huge pay raise as a result. I lived in NJ prior with high property taxes, sales taxes, and tons of other hidden taxes I'm not even aware of.

Moving to New Hampshire worked perfectly. While it's still terribly unfree here (compared to where we would like it to be- and it is better than many places- but that isn't saying much) we throw less money at non-essential services like police, schools, and fire services. Fire services are probably the least objectionable, but there is a lot of waste here too. I'd just get rid of the police and let people hire there own private security. There is no reason we can't move to a AAA like system with private security. Then we wouldn't be wasting money on things like unconscionable Nazi checkpoints (example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbVQ61hmI3E). The government and stupid people have made us dependent on it for services neither requested nor wanted. I didn't ask for someone else to pay for my childs schooling. That's my responsibility. Nobody elses. I didn't ask the government to pay for my health care costs which are high due to conditions I have. I simply don't believe the 70% of my income that the government steals from me is spent effectively. It's mostly wasted and unlike most of you I just am fortunate enough to get some of that money back in that the government buys products from my company at absurd prices in spite of the fact they have systems to ensure they get the lowest bidder- the reality is the system is fixed and you as a business owner don't even have to be the one to do the fixing. The people within government know how it works and they'll just work around these systems to ensure they get the product they want- rather than the one that makes the most economical sense. Not to mention you can't afford to do business with the government if you actually sell your product at the same rate you sell it to everybody else at because the additional hours of paperwork you got to fill out and maintain. You end up selling to a third party which sells to a third party that sells to government at 10x what the product otherwise would go for on the retail market. Yea- I know. I've seen $8 items sell to government for $80. Multiply that times hundreds or thousands or more because government doesn't buy anything in 1 and 2s.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Plus1Entropy]

Reading about the FSP I was surprised to hear that you got 14 members elected to New Hampshire's House of Representatives. I was pretty impressed, until I read that it has 400 members... holy crap. California has 80, by comparison. It's about 1 for every 3000 people, if the national Congress had that level of representation, there would be (Wikipedia did the calculation, not me) 99,000 members of Congress. I doubt even the Galactic Senate was that big.

Maybe you could start there to trim the fat, you know, instead of police and schools.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

You drank the cool aid and have proven to be a shit bag full of stupid. Obama's unemployment averages 15% The u-6 number is the REAL unemployment rate. But the monkey in the WHITE house didn't want to the REAL number reported so they used a different, VASTLY inaccurate number.

Oh, and what about all the businesses that dropped people to less than full time to avoid O-monkey-care???

Shit bags like you know how to lie pretty good. But the smart WHITE people can see through your lies.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Salgak1]

Actually, my defaults are informed by the reality of capture of extant politicians by the overall political system. The perqs and benefits of being an elected official are self-reinforcing, and are especially rewarding to those who enhance Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy..

As a backup, I also consider the advice of the late Robert A. Heinlein, speaking as his character 'Lazarus Long'. . .

If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for ... but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against.

ROBERT A. HEINLEIN, The Notebooks of Lazarus Long

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

My stepson, dutifully programmed by his teachers, came home quoting the "real unemployment rate" under W. Bush. He stopped doing that under Obama.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Then cut non-waste, or tax the holy hellier out of people. But quit borrowing.

Given we live in better times than ever before, government should be becoming smaller, not larger. We have no war or large infrastructure projects we can legitimately borrow for (where future generations, who will also benefit, can pay for it.)

This is just the immorality of the current generation refusing to carry its own weight. In the back rooms, they discuss how much they can get away with for borrowing, to lavish to buy votes, not how much they need for services.

As was shown during the late 90s Internet boom, the government will quickly work to re-unbalance the budget. There is no level of spending and equal taxing that is stable. In rare cases like that, borrowing is restored to purchase more votes.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[doug141]

Frankly, companies that pollute the environment should be 100% financially responsible for cleaning it up.

They are quite adept at having the responsibility stop at a shell company holding no money. Bankruptcy law gets in they way after that.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[LeftCoastThinker]

You need some citations that contain actual statistics for your "facts". The green jobs lie was just that, a lie. Coal jobs were lost because Obama essentially banned coal fired power plants via regulations making them cost negative to operate. Not even gassfied coal plants could operate at a profit.

No one is complaining about clean air and clean water, but when you start treating a key atmospheric component that is essentially plant food (CO2) as a pollutant without real science (screaming and stomping your foot, claiming majority rule in science, and/or claiming the science is "over" are not valid science, but rather logical fallacies committed by those with weak arguments that lack hard science to back up their claims) that is a real problem for industry.

CO2 is produced by every living organism, and plants need it to live. It has historically been at higher levels pre industrial revolution, http://drtimball.com/2012/pre-... it already blocks all the IR bands at 100%, and adding more will not change that (don't try to feed me that speculative BS about upper vs lower atmospheric diffraction, that is pure speculative BS with zero science to back it up), but somehow we are teetering on the apocalypse, never mind the science and historical evidence.

"The poor pay zero taxes because their pay hasn't increased for the last 40 years while the value of their income has decreased for the last 40 years which has caused them to fall below the poverty line. Yes, for some reason, you can have a full time job and still be impoverished because assholes aren't paying you what you are really worth."

Actually, that is a lie. If you look at stratification of poor who are working (i.e. not on welfare) before Obama, ~65% stayed below the poverty line an average of 8 years or less, meaning with hard work they were able to enter the middle class. There are some working poor with either mental or psychological defects that prevent them from ever moving out of poverty, but that is just a fact of life and has always been the case since time immemorial. The welfare class and working poor exploded under Obama because he paid off campaign contributors using the stimulus package instead of shoring up the housing market, and he allowed massive illegal immigration, rubber stamp H1B immigration all while his policies destroyed millions of jobs. All that works together to create a glut of unskilled and skilled labor while simultaneously reducing the number of available jobs. Stack the socialistic redistribution of wealth through Obamacare, mainly borne out by the middle class and he got a long way to destroying the main voting block of the conservatives: the middle class. This is how you get the 27 year old Millennials living in their parents basement who have a college degree and other marketable skills but can't get a job.

As far as the ACA goes, the Repubicans only got 90% consensus in their own party, while not a single democrat voted for the repeal/replace, so Republicans have decided to let the ACA explode (which it is) and let the Dims ride that sinking ship into oblivion in the next election. The ACA has a few good ideas mixed in with an implementation designed to create more dependency, not reduce the cost of health care. It has already cost the US economy $100s of billions of dollars more than projected, and the markets are collapsing across the country. For those who actually buy their insurance, it has jacked up rates between 50% and 200% while at the same time increasing co pay and deductibles 300% to 1000%. That is an abject failure at containing costs if you pay for your insurance. If you are a freeloader with lots of medical problems, it is great for you, but that is only because the ACA is stealing from others to pay for your coverage, and that is unsustainable.

"Yeah, who needs the police, firefighters, hospitals, schools or any of that shit, right?

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[LeftCoastThinker]

Check either the labor participation rate or the U-6 number. At this point in time you just look foolish trying to say Obama had 5% unemployment. That the media were his accomplices in lying about the unemployment rate is no excuse after 8 years... If unemployment were really that low, wages would not have dropped by something like $4500 per year on average during Obama's tenure. A tight labor market causes wages to go up, not down.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

You clearly need to spend less time on breitbart, stormfront, and fox news and go outside more. Freeways are clogged with so many teslas, porches, beamers, mercedes, and even maseratis that the silly techies cant even go fast in their go-fast cars except in the dead of night. My trucks look like a relics in comparion. And the only ones making progress are the ones in their shuttle buses in the carpool lane. If wages were falling youd see fewer of the fancy go-fast cars, not more. Maybe you should just apply for a job? I've been giving my employees raises twice yearly now to keep the big construction outfits building things like the new apple building from snatching them away. But business is great even for a smallish contractor like me. And Im booked solid at very profitable rates even with future raises factored in through half of next year. And my son? He just got hired up the road at google. His annual is less than what I bring in. But when hes done vesting hell make me and mine look like paupers.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck you, you poindexter techie fuck. Trump will see that you get the bitchslap that's coming to you. #MAGA

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Gravis Zero]

You need some citations that contain actual statistics for your "facts". The green jobs lie was just that, a lie. Coal jobs were lost because Obama essentially banned coal fired power plants via regulations making them cost negative to operate. Not even gassfied coal plants could operate at a profit.

Well let's see, the price of natural gas plummetted in 2008 which is a direct result of Bush's 2005 energy policy which exempted natural gas from just about all regulation. However, feel free to point out which executive order he made to make this happen before he came into office.

CO2 is produced by every living organism, and plants need it to live.

Interesting fact, plants absorb and expel it. Until recently, animal life has been living in the margins of what could be absorbed.

It has historically been at higher levels pre industrial revolution, http://drtimball.com/2012/pre-... [drtimball.com] it already blocks all the IR bands at 100%, and adding more will not change that (don't try to feed me that speculative BS about upper vs lower atmospheric diffraction, that is pure speculative BS with zero science to back it up), but somehow we are teetering on the apocalypse, never mind the science and historical evidence.

Adding more will make it more difficult to extract CO2 from the atmosphere which is something that must be done lest we become the next Venus. So if in if fact the we are blocking 100% of the IR, it will make it that much more difficult to undo the damage done. Secondly, the increased level of CO2 in the atmosphere is causing the oceans to become increasingly acidic. This in itself is causing rapid ecological changes.

As far as the ACA goes, the Repubicans only got 90% consensus in their own party, while not a single democrat voted for the repeal/replace,

Well, i suppose you'd be surprised to learn how the ACA actually got passed in the first place. https://www.govtrack.us/congre...

so Republicans have decided to let the ACA explode (which it is)

According to who? The mago-in-chief? Please link a CBO document.

and let the Dims ride that sinking ship into oblivion in the next election.

Reforming it is a much better idea than repealing it. If you want to replace it, it has to be a better for the people involved, which i recall Trump promising (“insurance for everybody.” comes to mind). Needless to say, the ACA isn't perfect. Frankly, it seems like a single unified national health care system would be a better and cheaper solution.

You might want to learn some actual facts before you spout off.

Take your own advice.

For example, the state of California spends ~42% of all funds on education, yet private schools produce better results with less than half the funding that public schools get. Clearly room for improvement and reform. We could get far better results cutting the budget in half, privatizing all schools and giving parents a portable voucher every year

LOL! Well, you obviously haven't taken a close look because it's hit-or-miss on both sides of public/private schools. I do not deny that education needs to be reformed but full privatization is exceptionally problematic.

7% of the entire state budget is spent on corrections and rehabilitation of criminals. In the past it was much lower because they used to execute those on death ro

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[LeftCoastThinker]

The low cost of natural gas didn't help coal, but that was hardly the root cause for it's demise. https://longviewpower.com/news...

I am not even going to get into discussing CO2 with you. You clearly know the AGW arguments but have no background in hard science and thus no filter to determine valid science vs. pull it out their ass speculation/junk science. You are worried that we are turning into Venus huh? You do know that Venus receives more intense solar radiation than earth, plus Venus atmosphere is 97% plus CO2 (970,000 PPM), whereas on earth we are at 400PPM (or 0.04%). No, plants and animals both respriate and produce CO2, plants also happen to convert more CO2 than they use, and no, all biomass on earth do not exist in the margins. There is an active carbon cycle where plant growth is limited by the availability of CO2 (~98% of plant mass is built out of CO2 and H2O, the remaining 2% is minerals).

Regarding the ACA, if the Democrats wanted to make health care better, they should have gotten involved instead of sitting on their hands and trying to obstruct. They voted lock stock and barrel for the ACA and it is broken as hell. The Dims are putting their politics ahead of the people, and it will cost them dearly in the midterms, then the ACA will get repealed and we will get market reforms, HSAs and a lot of other common sense solutions to lower the costs of health care for everyone. Couple that with the booming job growth and most people will be able to buy the health insurance that is right for them (or join a health care cost sharing co-op). The only difference is we have to suffer through another 18 months of the ACA imploding.

Regarding education spending: Privatizing schools would solve virtually all the problems via competition. (Competition provides virtually everything else in your life of quality, you might think on that for a minute.) Dumb kids and kids with crappy parents would still be dumb and would wind up in trade schools doing manual labor (vouchers would work there too), but smart kids would be able to excel and compete globally. We already use what is essentially a voucher system for the university system and the world has not come to an end, in fact US universities are well respected around the world. The only people who don't want to see school vouchers happen are the bad/ignorant teachers and the teachers union and Dim politicians who get a huge chunk of their funds from the union through mandatory dues. Parents would love vouchers. There is zero evidence that competition would make schools worse and mountains of evidence that it would make schools better.

Regarding criminals: GTFO. Crime rates are at historic lows in large part to 3 strikes laws taking habitual criminals out of circulation. That you believe anyone wants people to be incarcerated for financial gain is pitiful (you need to pull your head out of whatever liberal echo chamber you have been living in). You need to accept that criminality is not an accident and criminals need to be removed from society (150 years ago, we used to hang most criminals and the world was better for it and society didn't have to pay 7% of all their tax funds to house evil people who chose to break the laws of the land, often injuring innocents in the process).

Regarding welfare: So please tell me what should be taxed to discourage all the people taking welfare and other entitlements? The reality is that people will always take free stuff as long as you offer it. The reason for the explosion of welfare under Obama is equal parts job destruction via ACA and regulations as well as the elimination of the legal requirement to be gainfully employed, in school or looking for work.

Regarding farmers: So according to you all farmers grow corn for high fructose corn syrup which is as addictive as Cocaine? (Food is addictive, once you start you don't stop eating it until you die). High fructose corn syrup is no

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Gravis Zero]

The low cost of natural gas didn't help coal, but that was hardly the root cause for it's demise.

No, the root causes are that it's inefficient, becoming increasingly automated and displaced by other energy sources. Obama didn't do this but he did help this.

You are worried that we are turning into Venus huh? You do know that Venus receives more intense solar radiation than earth, plus Venus atmosphere is 97% plus CO2 (970,000 PPM), whereas on earth we are at 400PPM (or 0.04%).

I guess you don't know about feedback loops, eh? The Venus state is just the end result of the totality of many feedback loops.

No, plants and animals both respriate and produce CO2

Riiight. Let's put you in a room full of CO2 to test that theory.

Regarding the ACA, if the Democrats wanted to make health care better, they should have gotten involved instead of sitting on their hands and trying to obstruct.

LOL! Right... so how does that work when all the work is being done in secret at Republican luncheons that Democrats were prohibited from attending? Also, you really want to talk about obstruction? The 113th congress narrowly avoided the prize of being the least productive congress in US history. I agree and hope the Democrats are in fact working on bills to reform the ACA but I don't see the current congress doing anything but shooting it down if only to play politics.

Regarding education spending: Privatizing schools would solve virtually all the problems via competition. (Competition provides virtually everything else in your life of quality, you might think on that for a minute.)

Competition in capitalism is an excellent motivator but it's optimizes for a metric that will provide the most money, not the best outcome.

Regarding criminals: GTFO. Crime rates are at historic lows in large part to 3 strikes laws taking habitual criminals out of circulation.

I've seen plenty of studies that have found that to not be the case. Always look at who is funding a study.

That you believe anyone wants people to be incarcerated for financial gain is pitiful (you need to pull your head out of whatever liberal echo chamber you have been living in).

Corporations are systems, not people. The people inside them are continually seeking optimizations to maximize profits because if they don't then they literally are risking losing their job. It's all about money, not people. I very much encourage you to investigate the matter of incarceration for profit because it has been studied extensively and has found some very depressing realities. Why would you think that people would be above this kind of thing when there are so many examples of corporations doing the most depraved things? GM saved $0.57 on an ignition switch that they knew would kill people because it was cheaper to settle the lawsuits. How is this any less vile?

Regarding welfare: So please tell me what should be taxed to discourage all the people taking welfare and other entitlements?

Tax food based on how helpful/harmful it is to your body (encourages health and pays for health care). Tax corporation based on how much it costs to clean up their pollution (all things emitted [even products being sold] are pollution) (encourages "green" manufacturing/products and pays for cleaning up pollution). Tax pharmaceutical companies based on how many people become addicted to their product (helps pay for recovery programs). These taxes are called feedback loops which are the very things that define behavior.

Regarding farmers: So according

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

So in other words, you're a goddamned hypocrite but it's ok because you're making money. Fuck. You.

Re:This is what happens when you can't raise taxes

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice try, but you need to do your research better, and list your resources when making these claims.
Though I really like making the polluters pay 100% of the cost of clean up, but government agency's are some of the biggest polluters like the DOD, and energy department.
Also there are a lot of hidden taxes beyond sale tax that we all pay richest to poorest.

Tet

Good

[Anonymous Coward]

Government services do need to be paid for. If you don't think that should be via a sales tax or if you think that spending on some programs should be reduced then by all means pursue that through the political process but taxing sales through stores with a physical presence while not taxing sales through their online competitors makes no sense at all. Online retail isn't a fledgling market that needs special protection, it has very substantial advantages over physical stores and it should be able to bear the effects of equivalent tax treatment.

Re:Good

[Anonymous Coward]

There should be no such things as income or sales taxes, these things are extremely regressive. There should only be one type of tax, a wealth tax levied against an individual or company's total net worth. Say, 1% every year federal and 0.5% state. No other taxes at all, full stop.

Re:Good

[stabiesoft]

Probably not enough. Consider property taxes where I live run about 2.5% They also tax biz property. Same rate.

Re:Good

[sexconker]

Government services do need to be paid for

Try telling the UBI idiots that. They think money grows on trees and that the government has all it needs and can just literally give it away.

I think the contention is that government is wasteful and needs to be spending less money and focusing it more on useful services.
People are sick of paying for boondoggles like CA HSR. Many people are sick of paying for failing public schools, for road maintenance that never happens, for welfare and healthcare for irresponsible people, etc. It's not that these people think services don't have a cost, it's that they think the costs are out of line and the services rendered are not worth what the taxpayer is taxed, or even that many services should be cut entirely.

Re:Good

[Obfuscant]

a wealth tax levied against an individual or company's total net worth.

Yes! A tax on being frugal and saving your money for your retirement! Fuck anyone who puts 10% of their income away to provide for themselves when they get old. If they're rich enough to be able to do that, then they deserve to have it all drained away from them by endless taxes on the same money over and over again.

Re:Good

[CanadianMacFan]

And then don't forget once you are retired when you have a much lower income but might have higher assets such as a house and that retirement fund that generates the income. So this wealth tax eats away at the savings the person has spent a lifetime making.

Property taxes are regressive enough but let's extend that to cover everything a person has. Absolutely brilliant! /sarcasm

Same old excuse

[Anonymous Coward]

Not that I like taxes... But...

I love it when they want to ALWAYS use the "deter innovation" crap to avoid taxes, copyright protection, etc.

With or without taxes innovation will happen... Why? Because it's profitable.

Re:Same old excuse

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure. Next a Google search tax and a Facebook like tax. Maybe a Slashdot tax. Eventually they'll raise enough revenue that their retirees can buy a third boat for their second vacation cottage.

Re:Same old excuse

[VocationalZero]

This just in: turns out taxing things makes them less profitable.

Conservatives and their "innovation" arguments

[Anonymous Coward]

taxes do not deter innovation, just like patents do not encourage innovation.

Yes, Netflix, a service, should be taxed as any other service in the states it serves were these types of services would be taxes anyway. If I rented a movie from Blockbuster in Washington, I paid tax back in the day. Why shouldn't I be paying tax on steaming Netflix today? If I had Comcast, I'd be paying taxes there and I pay taxes for my internet connection.

Re:Conservatives and their "innovation" arguments

[chuckugly]

Because you're already taxed for the ISP connection, and data is data.

Re:Conservatives and their "innovation" arguments

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm already taxed for the infrastructure to get me to BlockBuster. Does that mean the product shouldn't be taxed?

Netflix is providing a service, it should be taxed in the states that have a sales tax. End of story. I'll pay this in Washington state without complaint. In Oregon, fuck no, this should never be taxed since they don't have a sales tax.

The tax on the ISP connection is pennies compared to the money I spend on other services over the internet. Should the ISP taxes be jacked up astronomically? No, they shouldn't. Should services to states with sales tax be taxed? Yes, most definitely without question.

Re:Conservatives and their "innovation" arguments

[kwbauer]

Except that there has to be a legal basis for claiming to have taxing authority. If memory serves, the US Constitution directly forbids states from levying taxes on goods that simply pass through the state. I think a very good case can be made for a claim that packets of digital data are no different from a transportation and legal standpoint than cases of lettuce.

It is also well settled law that a state (or any other government agency) cannot claim jurisdiction over something that happened outside of its physical borders. I know that the Feds have reached beyond this a bit with business practices in foreign lands but the general theory there is that the authorization was given in the US so they have jurisdiction. Such cases aside, it is very obvious that a state is not allowed to charge a resident with a crime for travelling to a different state to participate in some activity that is illegal in the persons home state, regardless of whether the activity is legal or illegal in the other state. Three examples: 1) Wisconsin criminalizes all use of marijuana but Wisconsin cannot charge a Wisconsin resident of having violated Wisconsin's drug laws if that resident travels to Colorado to purchase and consume marijuana unless the person brings some of it back to Wisconsin. 2) The Wisconsin resident can travel to Illinois (where recreational marijuana usage is also illegal) to purchase and consume marijuana recreationally and Wisconsin still cannot charge the person for marijuana use or possession. 3) California cannot charge a California resident for any gun crime if that resident travels to Utah and carries a concealed Springfield Armory XDS (not legal for sale within California), a Springfield Armory XD-M with 17 round magazine inserted and an AR-15 with a 30-round magazine and having a working magazine release button over his/her shoulder.

It is also fairly well-settled law that states cannot require business to act as a tax collecting agent for the state if the business has not physical presence in that state. That is because of the lack of jurisdiction.

So, yes, states can pass laws requiring use taxes on the consumption of streamed movies and music and they can require such business who have a physical presence in the state to collect such taxes but they cannot require that collection for all circumstances. It is also well-established law that a physical presence requires some form of building or office such as a warehouse, rented office space for a programming team, a support call center, etc. What I have not seen tried yet is whether an offsite employee working at home can be counted as having a physical presence.

The question is not so much whether the service can be taxed but whether the state can force the serving company to remit the taxes as a collecting agent.

Re:Conservatives and their "innovation" arguments

[sims 2]

Really? None of that in oklahoma yet. The ADSL2+ line is $45.00/mo

Actual bill after taxes/fees $45.00/mo

Maybe someday they will talk the isp's into selling connections actually worth taxing (hahahaha thats funny).

IIUC the reason it currently isn't taxed is an attempt to get them to actually deploy effing broadband.

Re:Conservatives and their "innovation" arguments

[micahraleigh]

You paid sales tax or a blockbuster tax?

Maybe there should be a pistachio almond icecream tax?

Or a left handed tax?

Or a couldn't make it to see the eclipse, but I need the government's filthy fingers in my back pocket tax?

Where do you draw the line?

Sales Tax is Tax, anything else is penalty

[evolutionary]

Okay, this is getting word and legally questionable. Sales tax, is exactly that. You can tax non-essential services/goods. If the shift is from one industry to another for the same service type, it is taxed the same way. Move from local video store to online streaming makes not difference unless implemented badly: you are taxed for the service regardless of how it's provided. If you add fees to specific services, that is basically a luxury or sin tax which is traditionally used to dissuade people from using that product or service. Examples like tobacco, alcohol or the like. Problem is if you add what is basically a sin tax on streaming, that is a penalty on the entire industry. And a sin tax on streaming is a pandora's box. To make it fair or impartial you'd have to apply the same to movie theatres, theatre, or anything that delivers an entertainment service. It's high questionable which is why one court threw it out already. These states need to either raise taxes in general (which they don't do because it would cost some officials their elected positions) or find a justifiable sin tax on some industry that you can prove does public harm. Otherwise, it's just a way to try to hide an additional tax so official can say they haven't raised taxes in general. It would be curious to know why these states focus on video distribution services. As far as justifying an official sin tax on the industry, that unlike tobacco or alcohol, will take more studies/proof to justify. Better off taxing marajuana. You can easily put a sin tax on that which is ethically/legally/politically acceptable, and you'd get tons of revenue anyway. We are about to do that in Canada, and we aren't falling apart. (We've been using tons of weed for years with the police mostly turning a blind eye and we're doing okay so far, the new laws next year will get a ton in taxes).

Re:Sales Tax is Tax, anything else is penalty

[Anonymous Coward]

how much would be raised if Religious organizations would pay the percentage that they currently don't

Re:Sales Tax is Tax, anything else is penalty

[Anonymous Coward]

many jurisdictions in the u.s. already do not tax true essentials like unprepared foods and raw ingredients, produce, meat and dairy, non-deli prepared foods, clothing, otc drugs, etc.

what part of "essential" services/goods does netflix fall under? it doesn't. it's fair game. and taxing it IS putting it on-par with other video entertainment options.. home video sales? taxed. rentals? taxed. movie theaters? taxed. cable and satellite tv? taxed.

what they should not do is single it out, but rather modify an existing tax category already on the books that should cover it (the tech not the individual company) but might not due to some technicality.. to ensure that it is covered without a loophole.

Re:Sales Tax is Tax, anything else is penalty

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm watching Netflix, I'm not driving my vehicle to the movie theater. When do I get my carbon tax rebate? It never works in the tax payer's favour.

Re:Sales Tax is Tax, anything else is penalty

[kwbauer]

Courts tend to reject these laws when the state is trying to claim jurisdiction over entities that are not physically present in the state. IOW, a state can tax the streaming of movies and they can tax streaming a movie differently than they tax a movie theater because, while the content may be the same, the service is different. What they cannot do the streaming of movies over Netflix at a different rate than streaming Amazon Prime. Another thing that they cannot do is require the streaming company to collect and remit those taxes (IOW, to act as a collecting agent on behalf of the state) if the streaming company has no physical presence in that state. That is why I was able to order from Newegg and Amazon to Wisconsin 8 years ago without being charged sales tax but not from Cabelas or JC Penney. For the past few years, Amazon has also been charging sales tax since they opened a warehouse in Wisconsin a few years back because that gave Wisconsin jurisdiction over all shipments into Wisconsin.

Re:Sales Tax is Tax, anything else is penalty

[somenickname]

The other way to do it would be to close loopholes that let multi-billion dollar corporations pay less tax than I do. We, the people, via taxes, effectively subsidize the entities that are trying their damnedest to fuck us over as much as possible as long as it's profitable.

What I'd like to see is a study on how well a corporation like Google would fair if it was headquartered in Somalia. And then take that data and figure out what percentage of their profit is due to the infrastructure that the taxpayers have payed for. And then use those figures to work out an equitable taxation figure that totally disregards bullshit corporate tax haven schemes.

Corporations massively benefit from our tax dollars so, they should share a lot of that burden. Instead they move their money to places that don't tax it as much but where none of the actual work is done. Just making corporations pay their fair share would have an enormous impact on our society. But, unfortunately, the people that are elected to our government are bought by the corporations before they even take office.

Re: Sales Tax is Tax, anything else is penalty

[Anonymous Coward]

The government didn't make you drive your car to the theater, and they did not make it illegal for you to walk instead. Are you saying there should be a carbon credit for walking? How would you implement this?

Parasites

[rogoshen1]

Government and their tax schemes are kind of like parasites; only instead of trying to exploit a biological niche, they find any economic activity they can -- and try to extract something from it.

Income tax, fine
Property tax, fine
Sales tax fine (though it's good to live in Oregon sometimes!)
Auto Registration .... (it's a tax, no matter how you slice it) .... the list goes on pretty much endlessly.

Only slightly surprised IRS goons don't show up and shut down lemonade stands because johnny jr didn't up.

Taxes aren't inherently bad, they do fund necessary services. But dear jesus.. spend the money more wisely and perhaps nonsense like this wouldn't be necessary.

Re:Parasites

[Anonymous Coward]

The only reason for that is because absolutely anything that has value for another person and isn't taxed will eventually attract all the money. I mean it's a no-brainer.

Re:Parasites

[KingMotley]

Income from a lemonade stand is already taxable. Check www.irs.gov.

Also, you are required to get a city permit (let's just call that a flat tax) in many places: http://www.nydailynews.com/lif...

Taxes are literally everywhere. It's just the amount and to whom that changes.

Re:Parasites

[rogoshen1]

Reading that made me throw up a little in my mouth.

Re:Parasites

[sims 2]

Fun! For a lemonade stand here you would need a "Transient Merchant and/or Itinerant Vendor License" which is $600/yr

It is only available by the year.

Hope you are planning on selling a lot of lemonade.

There shouldn't be a special tax

[fred6666]

But Netflix should pay/charge all taxes such as GST, PST/HST in Canada just like cable companies, groceries stores and every body else.

Re:There shouldn't be a special tax

[kwbauer]

Why should Netflix pay a tax like your cable company. The cable company is collecting taxes from you and remitting them to your government because it has a physical presence and the service they are offering is the transportation of digital data packets. Likewise with your grocery store for food or your car mechanic for car repairs. If they were to tax Netflix and Amazon for the content they send to you (more correctly, tax you and require Netflix and Amazon to collect it from you and remit it on your behalf) they would also have to tax Facebook, Youtube and your neighbor down the street who runs that recipe blog you enjoy so much for the content they send to you. If you agree that you should pay for everything you view on your computer screen, go ahead and beg to be taxed for it.

Re:There shouldn't be a special tax

[Obfuscant]

because it has a physical presence

Having a physical presence for the purposes of charging a sales tax is an artificial legal distinction. The sales tax is not paid by the corporation, it is paid by you, and YOU have a physical presence. The sales tax goes to provide services to YOU.

The "physical presence" makes a great deal of sense when it comes to income and corporate taxes, but not so much sales taxes.

If they were to tax Netflix and Amazon for the content they send to you

They aren't taxing Netflix for the content they send you, they would be taxing you on the sale of the service. It's easy to identify the difference. You can have a Netflix sub and not watch anything for a month. The sales tax would be levied on that month's charge from Netflix but there was nothing that you were sent.

they would also have to tax Facebook, Youtube and your neighbor down the street who runs that recipe blog you enjoy so much for the content they send to you.

How much do you pay for the service you get from Facebook, YouTube, or you neighbor? You pay $0, and 7% of $0 is $0. OMG, you ARE being taxed on Facebook, YouTube, and your neighbor! It's at the horrendous rate of 20%! But zero times 0.2 is still 0.

If you agree that you should pay for everything you view on your computer screen,

There is a big difference between a sales tax and being taxed "for everything you view on your computer screen".

Re:There shouldn't be a special tax

[Anonymous Coward]

because it has a physical presence

Having a physical presence for the purposes of charging a sales tax is an artificial legal distinction. The sales tax is not paid by the corporation, it is paid by you, and YOU have a physical presence. The sales tax goes to provide services to YOU.

The "physical presence" makes a great deal of sense when it comes to income and corporate taxes, but not so much sales taxes.

Then you should remit the tax to your state. Netflix is a California corporation, aka a (artificial) citizen of California, not a citizen of [your state]. Your state has no legal authority to require Netflix to collect taxes on it's behalf.

Re: There shouldn't be a special tax

[Anonymous Coward]

This is called a use tax, and the legal construct for it has existed for a very long time. The concept is that you purchased something from out of state, paid no sales tax on it, and are using it in your state of residence. You owe the state a use tax for this.

Re:There shouldn't be a special tax

[fred6666]

Because it's a tax loophole that should be closed, because it isn't fair. The tax code was created long before the Internet. Back then, it was not possible to "sell" a product or service from abroad without passing through customs.
How can a local company compete against Netflix if it has to collect 15% tax when Netflix doesn't?

Also, it gives 0 incensitive to Netflix to open a physical presence in Canada, since the second they do that, they'd have to collect taxes. Unless they use another loophole through a Luxembourgh subsidory, but that's another story.

Re: There shouldn't be a special tax

[kwbauer]

Yes, we all agree on that. Your state of residence has legal jurisdiction over you to compel you to pay the tax. It does not have legal jurisdiction over a corporation with no physical presence in that state to compel them to collect the tax from you and remit it to the state. This is not a "loophole". This is what prevents Utah and Wyoming from issuing warrants for the arrest of anybody consuming marijuana within the boundaries of Colorado. It really is not a difficult concept to understand.

Re:There shouldn't be a special tax

[kwbauer]

Well, Canada has the option of completely regulating all internet traffic entering Canada, don't they. They have complete authority to require that all traffic be decrypted and inspected before being passed to the end user just as they do with physical goods. What they do not have is any authority to compel a corporation not located within their physical boundaries to collect taxes on their behalf and remit them. It is not a "loophole" that needs closing anymore than the "loophole" that prevents the United States from requiring Canadian residents who are not US citizens from paying US income taxes.

And the same theory applies between states. If we are to allow a state like Texas to require Netflix to collect Texas sales tax from Texas customers and remit that sales tax to the State of Texas when Netlfix has no physical presence in Texas (assuming that Netflix does not operate call centers or other offices within Texas) then we must also allow the states of Utah and Wyoming to issue arrest warrants for the owners of marijuana resellers in Colorado. The same legal theory applies to both circumstances. There is absolutely nothing stopping a state like California from telling Netflix that it must remit California sales tax on all sales originating in California as that is an issue between California and business operating within California.

Re:There shouldn't be a special tax

[kwbauer]

The physical presence thing makes a great deal of sense when deciding legal jurisdiction. Should states like Texas and Florida get to hold people accountable for murders committed in California and Illinois? The former states have harsher punishments than the latter states so why do we let a little thing like physical location get in the way of justice?

Likewise, if I mail something to a customer in California from my home in Wisconsin, under what legal theory does California get to claim the jurisdiction necessary to compel me, as the seller, to collect taxes on their behalf and remit them? California can require my customer in California to do all manner of things but they cannot require anything of me unless the United States Congress authorizes it and does so in a manner that is consistent across all state lines. This is really basic stuff.

From my previous example, Wisconsin could pass laws requiring me as the seller to remit a tax on the sale and I can then decide whether to raise my price to include that tax or to reduce my profit. The reason states don't do that is because they already do that with what we call "income taxes".

Re:There shouldn't be a special tax

[fred6666]

It doesn't have to be Netflix that collect the taxes. It could also be the credit card companies. It's still a loophole if Netflix can compete against a Canadian company by offering the same product cheaper only because one has to charge taxes and the other one doesn't.

then we must also allow the states of Utah and Wyoming to issue arrest warrants for the owners of marijuana resellers in Colorado

No, we must not. You are making a straw man. Marijuana resellers in Colorado are not selling anything in Utah and Wyoming. Netflix is selling stuff in Canada.

than the "loophole" that prevents the United States from requiring Canadian residents who are not US citizens from paying US income taxes

Another straw man argument. Canadians working permanently in the states must pay taxes in the states.

Sales tax revenues are actually going up

[El Cubano]

Your monthly bill for Netflix, Amazon, Hulu and other streaming entertainment services could go up soon as states such as Illinois try to find ways to offset declining sales taxes and other revenue shortfalls.

Illinois sales tax revenues (2016 is the last table available) are actually rising:

Total Sales Taxes

FY2013 | FY2014 | FY2015 | FY2016
$ 10,151,497,166 | $ 10,547,896,792 | $ 11,013,086,296 | $
11,184,156,224

In fact, sales tax revenues are up around 10% over 4 years. If you look at the table, excise taxes are flat and gas taxes are up. Income, gaming, and other taxes are down. Income tax being down is a no brainer with the economy how it is.

If sales tax revenues go up 10% over 4 years (in a state with one of the highest sales tax rates in the nation) and they are looking for more ways to tax, then there is a serious problem with fiscal policy. Even if you factor in the decline in income, gaming, and other taxes the total decline is 10%. If a 10% decline over fours years wreaks that much havoc, then, well, there is a serious problem with fiscal policy.

Re:Sales tax revenues are actually going up

[Anonymous Coward]

Income, gaming, and other taxes are down. Income tax being down is a no brainer with the economy how it is.

Income tax receipts in Illinois aren't down between FY2013 and FY2016 because of the economy. The state income and corporate tax rates dropped in FY2014 due to a sunset of a temporary tax increase. The total GDP of the state of Illinois increased steadily over that same time period.

Re:Sales tax revenues are actually going up

[Anonymous Coward]

The "serious problem" is all of the professional welfare recipients that this country has. I don't mean the people that need it for a year or two to get back on their feet. I mean the people that spend decades on welfare because they're too fucking lazy to work and love their "free gummint money". We need to start implementing caps on how long someone can remain on welfare. Welfare was never intended to be a fucking career option.

Re:Sales tax revenues are actually going up

[KingMotley]

Well yes, there is a major problem with fiscal policy (and corruption) in Illinois. Lots of which come from lifetime pension deals for the government employees (sometimes multiple lifetime pension deals to the same individual, even if they only worked a single day!).

Re:Sales tax revenues are actually going up

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, yes, but Illinois. I think it's by design.

Re:Sales tax revenues are actually going up

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like anyone with a good income is leaving the state, and at the same time the state is jacking up sales tax to compensate.
This fits with your statement about other kinds of taxes declining in the state.
It sounds to me like the state is raising taxes on poor people who don't realize what's happening or can't afford to pack up and move to some other state.

... there is a serious problem with fiscal policy.

Tax and spend politicians, class warfare, voter bribing with "free" handouts isn't working out so well in Democrat-controlled crap-holes it seems...
If there was any justice we'd prevent anyone from leaving those states and spreading their progressive/leftist infection.

Re:Sales tax revenues are actually going up

[Obfuscant]

Before you blame the employees for this problem, consider the State Of Oregon which faces a huge deficit because of this (and cities and counties since they are part of the system). But it wasn't the employee unions that created the problem. The state came to the union many years ago and said "we can't give you a raise, but would you accept a good pension plan for when you retire?" In lieu of better pay during a time of inflation, the employees settled for more later. The state then, in its infinite wisdom, decided not to put the money away so it would be able to pay it when it came due. Now it is coming due and the employees are getting blamed for the state's double faced dealing.

Re:Sales tax revenues are actually going up

[misexistentialist]

so the money the state didn't have for raises was supposed to be "put away" for pensions...the opposite of the private sector practice of buyouts. It was scam on taxpayers from the beginning, union members should get nothing at all and count themselves lucky they aren't spending retirement in prison

Re:Sales tax revenues are actually going up

[Anonymous Coward]

So you're saying government employees in Oregon never got pay raises for many years ? Cause I'm pretty sure they do.

whats the reason for this tax?

[Anonymous Coward]

just a money grab?

Re:whats the reason for this tax?

[aicrules]

In the case of Illinois, that is exactly what it is. Can't speak for the other places, but Illinois is on the brink of insolvency. Apparently corruption does eventually weigh to heavy.

Re:whats the reason for this tax?

[avandesande]

Tell me more about this 'tax' that is not a money grab.

Raise existing taxes!

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of creating yet-more-new-taxes, why not just raise existing taxes? (e.g. this is essentially a pass-through tax on consumers, so raise corporate income tax to provide the same tax-revenue... corps will raise prices to maintain their after-tax income, etc.).

If they can't get "raise existing corp tax rate" passed, then tough luck! They shouldn't be able to pass things simply by renaming it: tax money is tax money, it doesn't matter what you call it.

Re:Raise existing taxes!

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of creating yet-more-new-taxes, why not just raise existing taxes?

Yeah, so all they need to do is raise the existing buggy whip tax 15,000% and then they won't need gas taxes for the roads.

Movie tickets and sales tax

[Anonymous Coward]

In some places movie tickets are charged a sales tax. Like it or not this isn't really that much different, and for that and one other reason it's likely to happen; the other reason is "because they can". If they thought that in this country they could charge a tax for OTA broadcast radio and television, they would (probably in the form of 'receiver licensing fees' like the UK does), but they know it won't fly here.

Re:Movie tickets and sales tax

[kwbauer]

Yes, they can pass laws stating that the act of viewing a streamed movie is taxable consumption but they cannot require the streaming service to collect the tax nor remit the tax unless the streaming company has a physical presence in the state anymore than they can require Amazon, Newegg, Cabelas, or any other catalog/online retailer to collect and remit sales tax if those companies have no physical location in the state. States have known this for a long time and ask you to pay the "use tax" on those catalog and online orders as you settle up with them every April. They also expect you to remit that tax on goods you have physically purchased in a no sales tax state or a state with a lower sales tax and brought home with you.

Never watch Netflix

[Anonymous Coward]

I didn't watch Netflix before the tax and I still won't watch Netflix after the tax.

Re:Never watch Netflix

[avandesande]

I just dumped it. No interest in binge watching their terrible 'original content'

In the future, everyone will go to other countries

[Anonymous Coward]

Not literally, but for services on the internet. Taxes and attempts at market segmentation just make the entire system inefficient. Data which could be routed just across town will be routed halfway around the planet to save on taxes and get cheaper offers. Like buying small things directly from China because shipping from there is cheaper than from inside the country.

already been that way

[Dale512]

In Texas I've been charged our normal sales tax on my Netflix subscription for ages (I'd say years but I don't recall exactly when it kicked in). It isn't any different from any other product or service.

Re:already been that way

[Anonymous Coward]

Services are not generally taxed in the U.S. In the U.S. we have sales tax and not a VAT like Europe which includes services that add value. Taxing Netflix as a service is a special tax, not a general application of sales tax. Funny that Texas is taxing Netflix, they always act like taxes are lower there.

Re:already been that way

[Dale512]

There are a ton of taxable services in Texas. I've had to pay tax on my WoW subscription for years. I deal with sales tax at work and there are tons of things I render to the state that vendors don't charge but it is still taxable. Texas is a ton more talk about small government and low taxes than they are at actually doing that.

Next up: dick tax!

[Anonymous Coward]

The only thing that the I.R.S. has not taxed is the penis. This is due to the fact that 40% of the time it's hanging around unemployed, 20% of the time it's pissed off, 30% of the time it's hard up, 10% of the time it's in the hole.

On top of all this, it has two dependents, and they're both nuts.

Accordingly, starting January 1, 1999, penises will be taxed according to size !

To determine the category, please consult the chart below and confirm this
information on page 2, Section 7, Line 3, of the standard 1040P form.

10 to 12 inches - Luxury Tax - $50.00

8 to 10 inches - Pole Tax - $30

6 to 8 inches - Privilege Tax - $15.

4 to 6 inches - Nuisance Tax - $5.00

PLEASE NOTE: Anyone under 4 inches is eligible for a refund.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK FOR AN EXTENSION

*Males exceeding 12 inches must file Capital Gains

So Basically You are Saying...

[Zurkeyon3733]

We should all just go back to pirating our media? Because I got NO MORE taxes for you GREEDY a-holes... I'm Spent.

This is /.

[rsilvergun]

Is like to think we're all good enough at math to realize those few pork barrels you sited are less than a drop in the ocean for an economy as large as California. Sure, so it the Netflix tax, but it's one of many such taxes. Your going to run out of pet projects quickly when your cutting. It's why nobody bothers. But again, figuring that out requires the maths.

Re: This is what happens when you can't raise taxe

[sound vision]

If he doesn't live where he works, he probably can't vote on local issues that effect housing there.

Internet Recovery Fee

[goombah99]

This is my favorite Item on my DSL (Century Link) phone bill. What the heck is that. It's not a govt tax. $5 goes to Century link. So why isn't it part of the advertised price. If it's a gov't allowance they must earmark to pay for expansion then why hasn't my DSL service improved in 20 years?

I also wonder why companies that do sell what they sell at the advertised price (like T-mobile does) don't make a bigger deal of their honesty (at least honesty about the cost) because customer's hate these creeping fees

Try Voip

[goombah99]

That's why I switched to Voip for my land line. Of course VOIP is more fragile that POTS but since I have a cell phone too I'm all ready robust on the coms department. By the way I use OOMA for my voip and am very satisfied with it for years. Pay once to get the box, then it's about $5 a month to pay for E911 and the local telecom fees. You can pay ooma more if you need extra services so it's full featured if you need that or bare bones if you don't.

Re:Try Voip

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the VoiP service I get (SIP) from callcentric is superior to any land line service I've ever subscribed to and at a fraction of the cost. I had an ATA adapter and used a traditional phone for my business for many year- many years ago. It was nothing but trouble. It probably didn't help I had a toll free number (Grasshopper sucks- insanely expensive low quality and proprietary service) forwarded to another SIP number (with a real phone #, callcentric) that then connected to an ATA adapter. But even after removing the forwarding it still never worked well using the ATA adapter. Eventually I bought a Panasonic KX-TGP550 SIP DECT Phone System for something like $400 I think (looks like it's going for $180 today, still being sold). The SIP phone service and system are great now.

How does the city know I use Netflix

[goombah99]

Netflix isn't tied to a location so how can the City know? Couldn't I just tell netflix I live in some state without taxes?

Re:How does the city know I use Netflix

[Anonymous Coward]

They will use the billing address on the credit card you pay with.

Prepaid cards will not get around it, as most prepaid cards require an ID to purchase -and the address from your ID is logged as the billing address for the card.

Re:How does the city know I use Netflix

[Anonymous Coward]

Netflix is not a telecom, so an analogy to phone fees does not apply. in fact, adding such a tax would lead to a similar situation that hotels suffer from.

However, States can gain access to your credit card and your bank statements. If your State has a use tax, Michigan does, you are likely obligated to pay the tax. If you choose not to and get audited down the road, you may have to pay tax, interest, and penalties.

Re: How does the city know I use Netflix

[Thundercat007]

ID to buy prepaid CC's? Since when, I buy them consistently at grocery stores through their self check out line.

Re:How does the city know I use Netflix

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Hotels are not in the business of speaking. At what point does a tax rate become a violation of the First Amendment?

Re:How does the city know I use Netflix

[pete6677]

However, States can gain access to your credit card and your bank statements

How? Without a warrant or subpoena? I seriously want to know. Asking for a friend...

Re:How does the city know I use Netflix

[Anonymous Coward]

Netflix knows your IP and most likely has all public proxies blocked. You could set up your own proxy, but that would be much more expensive than just paying the tax.

Re: This is what happens when you can't raise taxe

[sound vision]

Nobody pays zero taxes. There's plenty of people who pay no income tax (many of those having large incomes, like our current president) but there is still property tax, sales tax, road tax, phone tax, Netflix tax...

I'll Pay or Pirate, whatever is cheaper

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll glady pay the Netflix tax.

All I have to do is reduce other services, and believe me , there is room.

I'll reduce or cancel the cable, and go OTA.

I'll reduce or cancel the phone and go VoIP - already done.

I'll reduce the cellphone to bare-bones, since I have WiFi everywhere.

I'll reduce going to the Cinema - already done.

Don't worry, there are lots of other frivolous expenses I can cut down. Failing that, I can cancel service and go shopping for a better deal. And of course, failing that, there is using the library or just plain old piracy.

Re: This is what happens when you can't raise taxe

[Rockoon]

If he doesn't live where he works, he probably can't vote on local issues that effect housing there.

Oh well then! Nothing can be done!

/snark

Do you know who your local town council is, and what they do?

There is a reason that the east coast doesnt generally have this issue. We have the notion that when its our problem that WE need to do something about it, rather than that SOMEONE needs to do something about it.

Message From God !

[JimSadler]

Officials in government must get messages directly from God to tax things. It is like a command. If it exists we must tax it ! It is a serious message in disguise. It is an admission that our government can no longer afford to govern. That is just about what goes on in the average American family. Families can no longer afford to exist unless there is some cheating on the basics. Hidden income is one path. But even more than that people are doing without things that they actually need in order to survive. The weird part is there is no consideration of fixing this problem as no one seems to admit that it exists. It is an easy thing to study. Look at the debt loads of various people. often you will see shriveled up bank accounts but a loan balance that is over the fence. People tend to see death as the escape clause. After all, the dead can not be embarrassed or worried about bill collectors knocking on their coffin. In a way it resembles the global warming problem. If you really love your children and grandchildren you will be very willing to do what it takes to arrest global warming. Make note that your neighbors probably don't give a hoot about global warming as they reason that they will be dead before it gets too bad. As for the kids, give them swimming lessons.

Big Brother

[Dunbal]

Give it a few years and if you download any movie from another provider (legal or otherwise) you'll be charged with tax evasion.

Re: This is what happens when you can't raise taxe

[denis.goddard]

One person voting doesn't help much. Hell, one person getting into office doesn't help much. But THOUSANDS of activists and DOZENS of people getting themselves elected, in one small state? You bet your ass that's making a difference http://freestateproject.org/

Re: This is what happens when you can't raise taxe

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell yea- I moved last year (March). So howdy neighbour! Best decision of my life. Bought a house in Keene. Been to the state house a dozen times this past year. Helped get the crypto bill past amongst a few others. Thanks for your contributions! I don't think I know you, but am checking out some of the stuff you've done. Though I'd be shocked if we haven't met.

Americans don't know how lucky they are

[Bruce66423]

The Value Added Tax system in the EU means that ALL items - except a small list of essentials set by individual countries, e,g, food and books in the UK, are taxed at about 20%. So that will be hitting all new services from very early in development. We can debate whether this is a good thing or not - but it does avoid the silly levels of complexity that the variable rates found in the US produce.

Re:Americans don't know how lucky they are

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no common VAT system in the EU, it is different between each country. Many have very many variable rates for different goods.

Not QUITE corruption

[Bruce66423]

The major problem for Illinois - and one that is causing many jurisdictions grief - is the pension promises made to public sector employees that are actually or effectively unfunded, and thus will come to eat ever more of general tax revenue in coming years. These promises allowed politicians of earlier eras to square the circle of giving public sector employees pay rises - at least in their understanding - whilst not adding to the tax burden of the people who would reelect these politicians. Now that issue is coming home to roost - amplified by the fall in returns on investments and a large rise in life expectancy.

Reports that governments around the world are looking for a plague that will kill everyone over 65 are generally denied...

Better to tax goods AND services

[Bruce66423]

There is no reason to tax them differently, so Texas' policy sounds like a good idea. Actually given the concern about CO2 etc, there may be a case for taxing some services less, but that's a second level argument!

End farm subsidies NOW

[Bruce66423]

One of the most remarkable features is the way that agriculture has remained the recipient of vast government expenditure over the years. In the US this has been achieved by farm state congress creatures allying with inner city representatives to vote for each others' subsidies. In Europe the EU started as a way of getting Germany to pay the French peasantry a living wage.

The way to spot the impact of farm subsidy is to consider the market value of farm land. To the degree that it has a substantial value, to this degree the workers are not getting the full benefit of subsidies.

So, so very true. Well said.

[Anonymous Coward]

And sales tax is so regressive.

Re: This is what happens when you can't raise taxe

[Anonymous Coward]

100% agree with this. 50% annual tax on all funds in trust with adult beneficiaries, 25% annual tax on assets held in non-retirement brokerage accounts, 35% annual tax on capital gains and dividends of stocks and investments outside of brokerage accounts. It's not regressive like sales tax, and it is applied equally to everyone - not the government's fault that poor people don't have the same assets as rich folk.

Re: This is what happens when you can't raise taxe

[LeftCoastThinker]

Pretty sure there are records of Trump paying millions in taxes. You need to cite something with actual facts before you try to pull that BS.

People on welfare and below the poverty line can have a net effective income in benefits of up to $45,000/year and pay zero taxes:

No income tax: Welfare and income below ~$40k(?) is not taxed, nor do they have to pay SSI/SDI
No property tax: Those who receive subsidized government housing pay no property tax
No Sales tax: Those on food stamps don't pay sales tax on food
No road tax: Those receiving free bus and train cards don't pay road taxes
No phone tax: Those with free "Obama" cell phones/plans don't pay phone tax

Thank you for playing, better luck next time.

This is what happens when government grows

[Anonymous Coward]

This is what happens when the government grows beyond its funding ability.

There are a lot of taxes that are growing with inflation and population (property, gas, income, sales, etc). But that's not sufficient when new administrative services are added without regard to how much they cost.