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Hacker Helps Family Recover Minivan After Losing One-Of-A-Kind Car Key (bleepingcomputer.com)
An anonymous reader writes: A hacker and a mechanic have helped a family regain access to their hybrid car after they've lost their one-of-a-kind car key while on vacation. The car in question is a Toyota Estima minivan, which a Canadian family bought reused and imported from Japan. When they did so, they received only one key, which the father says he lost when he bent down to tie his son's shoelaces.
Because it was a hybrid and the on-board computer was synced to the battery recharge cycles, the car owner couldn't simply replace the car key without risking the car battery to overcharge and catch fire. After offering a reward, going viral on Facebook, in Canadian media, and attempting to find the lost keys using crows, the family finally accepted the help of a local hacker who stripped the car apart and reprogrammed the car immobilizer with new car keys. The whole ordeal cost the family two months of their lives and around $3,500.
Because it was a hybrid and the on-board computer was synced to the battery recharge cycles, the car owner couldn't simply replace the car key without risking the car battery to overcharge and catch fire. After offering a reward, going viral on Facebook, in Canadian media, and attempting to find the lost keys using crows, the family finally accepted the help of a local hacker who stripped the car apart and reprogrammed the car immobilizer with new car keys. The whole ordeal cost the family two months of their lives and around $3,500.
Why would anyone buy a car like that?
owner couldn't simply replace the car key without risking the car battery to overcharge and catch fire
That's a thing?
" on-board computer was synced to the battery recharge cycles, the car owner couldn't simply replace the car key without risking the car battery to overcharge and catch fire"
Really? You mean the computer cannot detect the charge level of the battery and act appropriately. Sounds broken by design if it really works that way.
I really don't want a smart key I've been careful and lost one already.
I've been tempted to just wire my key into my car, so regular keys would just work.
Now that they have posted pictures of their analog keys, I hope they have replaced those too.
Using the VIN number, they can reproduce ANY key for ANY model the manufacturer carries. Sure it may be a bit of a hassle but with proof of ownership, any dealer can reproduce the keys. I've done it a number of time, a key just to get in the car is often free and a smart key can cost $150-250.
For $3500 you could've flown to Japan, gone down to their HQ and flown back with a key.
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With a megasquirt after the ECU and the keys decided not to like each other. Semi modern cars are wonderful!
batteries could charge until they explode so no safety cut off? if the system fails?
also what is next the system fails if any non dealer work is done?
They have better eyesight than humans and like shiny things, so yeah, a couple of tame crows that will bring you the shiny things they find is not a bad idea.
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
What!? You have to replace the key, and there is some uncontrollable/unresettable battery charging failure? I find that difficult to believe. It suggests that the on-board estimate of battery capacity (which goes down over time, and has to be considered when recharging) somehow gets reset when you replace the key, and that this is somehow uncorrectable. Or alternately, that it writes the battery capacity to the key somehow, which seems inconceivable.
Add to that the fact that you can go to any dealer and get a key with the same code (which means the on-board software has no idea that it is different) for something like a few hundred dollars, and there is a bit of a fishy smell about this story.
I am pretty sure that Toyota did not fail to consider the possibility of a lost key, and if you try to replace it, the car blows up/catches fire.
So then,,,,, if a hacker can make a new key, what was the point of these microchip keys again?
And anyway, why would they not just contact a dealer or the manufacturer in Japan to make some new keys, and overnight-ship them? Seems a lot cheaper than $3500 and faster than two months,,,
I recall reading at one point that such systems were "un-hackable",,,, tho that was a while back now. They don't say that much anymore.
"You keep using that word... I don't think it means what you think it means..."
This is similar to the bug they used in Operation Pacifier. That one they used a bug in the Adobe Flash plugin (it ignored TOR and went over standard IP).
I won't say they are unhackable, but they are a lot harder to steal than they used to be. In the old days the thief would use a screwdriver and force the lock to start the car. I remember all of the goofy alarm systems and other anti-theft systems that people came up with - they were all a pain, but getting your car stolen was even more of a pain. These days they basically need to use a tow truck.
Because it was a hybrid and the on-board computer was synced to the battery recharge cycles, the car owner couldn't simply replace the car key without risking the car battery to overcharge and catch fire.
...what?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
The specifics vary from one manufacturer to the next. With VW, there was a 4-digit PIN number in the ECU that you needed to adapt keys, and generally VW wouldn't give you that number. The people that can chip your engine generally have the know-how to retrieve that number - whether they will or not is another matter, but I had the PINs for both of our cars at one point. At one point, my wife had lost one of her keys. We had another made and paid thee dealer $$ to adapt it. Then we found the missing key. By then I had the PIN number, so I re-adapt the keys myself with a laptop and special software that I already had on-hand. I suspect a lot of the pain here is that since the vehicle was out of market that the local dealers couldn't help.
I posted upthread but modern cars often have fairly involved networks onboard with multiple systems where serialized modules are "known" to the network as secure. Tamper with the module, and dealer software can refuse to work. There is a cottage industry of people disassembling electronic modules and doing "brain transplants" by transplanting an EPROM or affixing a kludged daughterboard to new ones so that dealer computers are willing to talk to the car. Yes, the dealers can do something, but they often quote entire subsystem replacements, multiple units and 5-6 figures so that all the components are "new" and "match" (i.e. come from the factory already talking), so customers end up buying a grey-market ECU or whatever unit, then shipping their old one and the new one to transplanters to do the switch.
The article was nonspecific, but I imagine it was more like for the dealer to do it the "right way per the dealer" they'd have had to ship the car back to its original market, then shell out half its value to have a bunch of stuff replaced/reprogrammed.
If you can only get a dealer quote from overseas, and the dealer quote is like $10k on top of that, then "impossible" is an apropos word.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
If I had to spend $3500 and hire a hacker, I'd want that custom immobilizer never to immobilize again. A purely mechanical key would be fine.
They have better eyesight than humans and like shiny things, so yeah, a couple of tame crows that will bring you the shiny things they find is not a bad idea.
Not parsing: if the hackers can see the shiny things, what are the crows for?
It's a BS FaceBook Please-Fund-Me story. Any mechanic could've taken out the car computer and purchased a new one and installed it for less than $1500. Even if the car was out-of-country, it's a risk you take that when you buy exotic cars you may have to pay extra for repairs.
I had an older Buick that had gone on the fritz where basically the keys would start the car but not unlock the gearbox or any other theft prevention (the radio would refuse to work, the car could not be remotely unlocked).
My garage charged $500 to the warranty provider for a brand new "computer" and swapped out the keylock mechanism, and they simply reprogrammed my key (and then I had to go back with my other key to get it reprogrammed as well).
And if I didn't want to pay the dealership an exorbitant amount, there are numerous websites that offer OEM-compatible key replacement and ECU reprogramming services including the Toyota Estima in the story.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
If you buy a newer used car that has an electronic key, and you only get one key, it's ALWAYS worth the $200 something to go to the dealer and get an extra before this happens.
-- I am. Therefore, I think!
Dinner.
I doubt a new key would be $3,500
Maybe $1,000 at the most.
Yes. The whole story is more or less BS.
1) who buys a RHD car as an import from JP for use in Canada ?
2) Battery exploding after losing track of charge cycles. Complete and utter bullshit.
3) Dealer cannot reprogram the Immo. could be.
4) Manufacturer cannot reprogram the Immo. Bullshit.
5) key image is photoshopped
aaaaaaa
I'd be very suspicious, to be honest.
A programmed key, with a guy who knows what key it fits, where he lives, how much money he's got, etc. is running around in some employee's pocket "by accident".
No. You just keep the keys in a cabinet in the dealership, press the buttons on the keys you have until the care you want unlocks.
What a bunch of idiots to lose those keys? Absolutely. Including that one rogue guy who has a nice sideline in cars stolen-to-order and the paperwork behind them.
It's conceivable that the electronics for the Japanese version of the vehicle called a Previa in North America are not fully compatible with the tools an American dealer would use. I'd assume that the Japanese home island diagnostic tools have a Japanese language UI and that maybe some minor differences exist in the support programs and maybe even the ROMs as well. Doesn't matter if the differences are minor. They likely can effectively prevent a North American dealer from working on the some features of the electronics of a Japan configured vehicle.
Note that there can be differences (other than the Left hand steering) between a vehicle built in Japan for the Japanese market and a vehicle built in Japan for the North American market.
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
OK then. Just epoxy your "smart key" someplace under the dash. But keep in mind that you'll need to replace the key battery every few years. Put the key someplace accessible. Then buy a mechanical ignition switch and cylinder for any older car, mount it on the dash, and graft in a bit of wiring to make it operate rationally.
Oh yeah, and one more "feature" of these moronic smart keys is that if the key's battery is tired and the key is left in the car in cold weather, you may have to somehow warm the key up before the vehicle will start. Yes, I've had that happen.
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
the car owner couldn't simply replace the car key without risking the car battery to overcharge and catch fire
Lennart Poettering builds a car.
Have gnu, will travel.
Just so they can act all smug that they have a "hybrid" Those silly vehicle cost more to produce, and have more of a carbon footprint than a traditional vehicle, have more toxic materials...but, because they are "green" everyone overlooks that!
Google this: Toyota Estima
(the Japanese means "lost the key").
I found 3 sites immediately that discuss Toyota Estima. A couple mentioned charges of about 80 USD while another seemed more detailed. It seems that it is a difficult job that requires rewriting the car's computer, but that it can be done in 60 minutes. They quote a cost of about $165 for Osaka area.
TFA says the Japanese partner (should be Toyota) could not do it and that the importer split the cost so they paid around $2000. It sounds expensive but conceivably there was no cheaper alternative in their location, and since they got the importer to pay half it sounds like the importer also could have already tried to help.
https://translate.google.com/t...
https://translate.google.com/t...
This is absolute bullshit. That's not how battery chargers work.
I live in Japan and am super into cars.
You usually get 2 to 4 keys with a new car, always 2 standard with fob/chip, often 1 backup key without fob/chip, and sometimes 1 "valet" key. When you get the keys you get a code tag that you use to order additional keys at any time - loose the tag and you can still order as long as you have an existing key, but you need to send the key in to have the tag info cross referenced. So basically as long as you don't loose the tag and *all* of the fob/chip keys you're totally fine.
And the whole issue was due to the immobilizer, which was DOING EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE DOING. The idea is it makes it very difficult to hot-wire a car, and even if someone does somehow (with a trailer?) steal your car they won't be able to actually use it or sell it without putting in a huge amount of effort.
So what do you do if you loose all your keys and tag? You bring it to the dealer or an authorized/licensed mechanic who deals with that brand and have the immobilizer unit replaced. I just looked it up, and the cost for that on a newer Estima looks to be about $900USD.
The dealer/importer should have been able to figure this out much easier but I'm guessing they're just one of those places that grabs cache stock from auto auctions and kludges the paperwork.
It parses fine. You're just drunk. Or illiterate.
If you happen to have an upper-level car (in my case Model S), you can run an app on your tablet or smartphone that links to your car and can be used in place of your car's key to open the doors, start the engine, and drive off. There is the downside that this fails if either your phone or the car cant make a cellular connection (or, usually, local WiFi).
But no key required here.
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
Crows? Seriously?
corvids are incredibly intelligent and have unbelievable eyesight. They have such high visual accuity they recognise where humans eyes (not face direction but the actual eyeball direction!) are looking from a fair distance away, much further than humans I recommend looking up the studies on this they show how little we think we know of the crow family. They have uncanny recognition ability and can accurately spot and track human faces in a crowd MUCH better than humans thus one consideraton is training them for security and profiling reasons. There is a LOT of research on several of the family, plus they're one of the only families with several species that are complex tool users. Some of the species have tool use similar to human level and higher primates. Look up some of the studies done in the past 20 years so yeah "Crows, seriously!"