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Paul Allen Finds Long-Lost World War II Cruiser, the USS Indianapolis (usni.org)

An anonymous reader quotes the US Naval Institute News: Seventy-two years after two torpedoes fired from a Japanese submarine sunk cruiser USS Indianapolis (CA-35), the ship's wreckage was found resting on the seafloor on Saturday -- more than 18,000 feet below the Pacific Ocean's surface. Paul Allen, Microsoft co-founder and billionaire philanthropist, led a search team, assisted by historians from the Naval History and Heritage Command in Washington, D.C., to accomplish what past searches had failed to do -- find Indianapolis, considered the last great naval tragedy of World War II.

"To be able to honor the brave men of the USS Indianapolis and their families through the discovery of a ship that played such a significant role in ending World War II is truly humbling," said Allen in a statement provided to US Naval Institute News on Saturday... "I hope everyone connected to this historic ship will feel some measure of closure at this discovery so long in coming"... Allen's 13-person expedition team, on the R/V Petrel is in the process of surveying the full site and will conduct a live tour of the wreckage in the next few weeks. They are complying with U.S. law and respecting the sunken ship as a war grave, taking care not to disturb the site.

Paul Allen has shared some photos from the discovery on Twitter.

The ship had delivered components for the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima just four days before it was sunk. Only 317 of its 1,197-man crew survived, making it the worst at-sea disaster in the history of the U.S. Navy.

131 comments

  1. Re: https://www.al-awa2el.com/taif-clean/255-carpe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Go away towelhead. We don't like your kind around here.

  2. USS Arizona was worse by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1, Interesting

    From TFA: Only 317 of its 1,197-man crew survived, making it the worst disaster in the history of the U.S. Navy

    1197 - 317 = 880 dead

    1177 died on 12/7/1941 on the USS Arizona.

    So the USS Indianapolis was not the worst.

    1. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Scutter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So the USS Indianapolis was not the worst.

      It's not a contest.

      --

      "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    2. Re: USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But far more of her crew survived, in comparison.

      However, as we all know, the real worst disaster of the US Navy was the loss of the Good Ship Lollipop after the Sugarcane Mutiny resulted in the Death of the Salesman.

    3. Re:USS Arizona was worse by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 2

      I'd say the whole Pearl Harbor thing is the worst naval disaster.

    4. Re:USS Arizona was worse by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's not a contest.

      But someone was wrong on the Internet!

      Anyway, TFA doesn't say it was the "worst disaster in the history of the U.S. Navy". That incorrect factoid appears to have been fabricated by whoever wrote the summary.

    5. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      Trump thinks he can beat it.

    6. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The USS Arizona was in port, whereas the USS Indianapolis was at sea (engaged in a combat mission).

    7. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot calls itself "News for Nerds"

      So it's a news site.

      One would hope that it would strive to be a fact-based news site.

      That would involve the EDITORS EDITING and noting and posting corrections for any factual errors in the stories they post.

      But Slashdot "editors" are not editors.
      They are lazy and stupid.

    8. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but Slashdot shitposters is not specific enough, it could apply to us ACs too.

    9. Re:USS Arizona was worse by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 0

      The USS Arizona was in port, whereas the USS Indianapolis was at sea (engaged in a combat mission).

      By the time her magazine exploded, the crew of the USS Arizona had gone to general quarters, and anti-aircraft guns were manned and returning fire. So she was also engaged in combat.

    10. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Prien715 · · Score: 2

      making it the worst at-sea disaster [emphasis mine]

      The Arizona was docked at the time. The water was so shallow her superstructure was above water after she sunk.

      --
      -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    11. Re: USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet it can be clearly seen in Pearl Harbor, some pieces even breaching the water.

    12. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever heard of this ship?

      Oh I forgot. They were Germans. Even the around 5000 kids on board. Never mind.

    13. Re: USS Arizona was worse by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      So where does pain and suffering put us,

    14. Re:USS Arizona was worse by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Have you ever heard of this ship?

      I was not aware that German military transports were part of the US Navy - you learn something new every day!

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    15. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Hartree · · Score: 1

      "Have you ever heard of this ship?"

      Yes. The grandfather of my teacher for German class was a survivor of it. (He was a German medic who was one of the passengers.)

      He never got back on another ship for the rest of his life.

    16. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From TFA: Only 317 of its 1,197-man crew survived, making it the worst disaster in the history of the U.S. Navy

      1197 - 317 = 880 dead

      1177 died on 12/7/1941 on the USS Arizona.

      So the USS Indianapolis was not the worst.

      At-sea.

    17. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      making it the worst at-sea disaster [emphasis mine]

      The Arizona was docked at the time. The water was so shallow her superstructure was above water after she sunk.

      The USS Arizona was not "docked" at the time - "docked" means "drydock". That thing sticking out into the water? IT'S A FUCKING PIER, NOT A DAMN "DOCK".

      And you "tie up" to a pier. You don't fucking dock your ship at a pier. That's like parking your fucking car in your window.

      The USS Arizona was moored.

      And yes, REAL nautical terminology is that precise. Don't you fucking dare quote Wiki-useless-fucking-pedia to try to claim piers are "docks".

    18. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just as I pointed out, it wasn't. Which is why it doesn't matter, especially when Americans discuss the biggest disasters ever.

      Ok, I'll stop with the sarcasms for a moment. The point is that there is a tendency to become myopic in any discussion like this, and to forget anything that isn't directly involving Americans, which is pretty annoying. Yes, the context is US Navy, but if you read the parent, you could easily get the impression the poster considered Pearl Harbor the greatest naval disaster in the history of mankind. It is not. There are several horrific incidents involving both German (Goya, Steuben) and Russian (Armenia) ships where many thousands of civilians were killed. These disasters never get any airtime, so some perspective could be useful.

      Finally, calling Wilhelm Gustloff a "military transport ship" is a huge whitewashing. The vast, vast majority of the victims were civilians, and about half of the total number of passengers were children. Shame on you.

    19. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be pedantic, the US was not at war when the Arizona was sunk. The Pearl Harbor attack was what got the US to declare war.
      Therefore, the Indianapolis was the worst wartime disaster.

    20. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Daerath · · Score: 1

      Correcting a mistake doesn't make something a contest. Facts do matter.

    21. Re:USS Arizona was worse by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      And you "tie up" to a pier. You don't fucking dock your ship at a pier.

      Unless it's a space dock. Then you certainly do want to dock your ship, come aboard the station and gamble some money at Quark's.

    22. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Understandable.

      It's sad to see so little light is spared for all the civilian casualties, save the victims of the holocaust, even though they dwarfed the military losses. I guess it's because they make such poor heroes and the horrors of war all too tangible.

      My hat's off to all of them, no matter what their nationality was. They are the ones we should remember.

    23. Re:USS Arizona was worse by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      And you "tie up" to a pier. You don't fucking dock your ship at a pier.

      A ship ties up to a pier or a wharf. Piers run perpendicular to the shoreline. Wharfs run parallel to the shoreline.

      Neither a pier nor a wharf is a "dock". The dock is the water next to a pier or wharf. The ship ties to a pier, while it sits in a dock.

      At least, that is what I learned in boot camp.

      There are also "dry docks" and floodable docks like the dock on an LSD.

      Disclaimer: I once spent 8 weeks on an LSD. But as a Marine, I was considered part of the cargo, not part of the crew. Semper Fi.

    24. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From TFA: Only 317 of its 1,197-man crew survived, making it the worst disaster in the history of the U.S. Navy

      1197 - 317 = 880 dead

      1177 died on 12/7/1941 on the USS Arizona.

      So the USS Indianapolis was not the worst.

      True, but what the Slashdot summary that you are responding to said was this:

      Only 317 of its 1,197-man crew survived, making it the worst at-sea disaster in the history of the U.S. Navy.

      The Indianapolis was at sea; the Arizona was not.

    25. Re:USS Arizona was worse by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      True, but what the Slashdot summary that you are responding to said was this:

      No it didn't. I pointed out the mistake, and the summary was later corrected.

    26. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

      Well said.

    27. Re:USS Arizona was worse by kenai_alpenglow · · Score: 1

      Sultana, 27 Apr 1865. 1547 dead (depending on who you talk to). A civilian ship, but hired by the Army to ferry POWs home. Maybe not combat, but could still be considered a military mission taking place during war (The war between the states didn't end until May 1865). It's all in the definition. Regardless, none of these examples detract from the (unnecessary) loss of life on the Indianapolis.

    28. Re:USS Arizona was worse by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      She was returning. She wasn't part of the "right" navy, however so they didn't care that she was missing which is why so many were lost. The whole way it was handled was wrong. Of course the Navy brought in the guy that sunk the ship to help convict the Captain in his court martial. Didn't matter what he did, that Jap captain would have had him. Text book shot.

    29. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      shut the fuck up if you've nothing to add.

    30. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, Shit Head they said WORST US NAVY DISASTER. So No, I don't give a fuck about German disasters when talking about US NAVY DISASTERS.

    31. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When fucking civilians authorize and pay for their military to go to war, then they get to enjoy the consequences of their actions.

      So, fuck civilian casualties.

      If the fucking civilians didn't want the war (Germans were marching every fucking week and demanding they go to war) then they should have done something other than support it. then they wouldn't have had casualties

    32. Re:USS Arizona was worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great comment. TIL pier, wharf, vs dock. Grew up on the water, boating & fishing. I had no idea.

      Thank you for your comment and your service.

  3. War grave - do not disturb. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

    The ship is considered a war grave and protected by various country-specific laws. Unfortunately, "scavengers ain't got no respect."

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:War grave - do not disturb. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      18000 feet is 5.4 km deep - VERY deep. I don't think the tech exists capable to disturb it.

    2. Re:War grave - do not disturb. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need to search it for any valuable military artifacts. It's what the sailors would have wanted.

    3. Re:War grave - do not disturb. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Yeah! If only they hadn't disturbed the wreck, those people could be alive now!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:War grave - do not disturb. by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Allen's 13-person expedition team [...] will conduct a live tour of the wreckage in the next few weeks. They are complying with U.S. law and respecting the sunken ship as a war grave, taking care not to disturb the site.

      How do you do a live tour of the wreckage without disturbing it?

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    5. Re:War grave - do not disturb. by MangoCats · · Score: 1

      The tech exists today to disturb any site under the ocean - maybe not delicately explore or salvage, but we can disturb the hell out of anything, anywhere in the ocean, and send live video back while it's happening.

    6. Re:War grave - do not disturb. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      18000 feet is 5.4 km deep - VERY deep. I don't think the tech exists capable to disturb it.

      LMGTFY

    7. Re:War grave - do not disturb. by dwye · · Score: 1

      18000 feet is 5.4 km deep - VERY deep. I don't think the tech exists capable to disturb it.

      But surely we still have plans for the Glomar Explorer, if we needed to rebuild it?

  4. Re:Screw the soldiers by fabriciom · · Score: 2

    If I remember correctly there have been various European countries that have done this before. Greek's Alexander, Roman empire, Spanish empire, English empire, etc. etc. etc.

  5. farewell and adieu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to you fair Spanish ladies

  6. Re: https://www.al-awa2el.com/taif-clean/255-carpe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh look, a chest thumping troll using "We" cos he's too much of a fucking spineless troll to say "I".

    Go back to fucking your sister in the trailer park.

  7. America wants to know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did the crazy old lady throw a diamond into the ocean over the wreck?

  8. Re: https://www.al-awa2el.com/taif-clean/255-carpe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the user is a troll, why did you bite? Why couldn't you simply ignore the troll?

  9. "...is truly humbling..." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Translation: "I'm Paul Allen!! Pay attention to MEEEEE!!" *throws chair*

  10. Total classic. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    Guess where it was... behind the sofa. ;)

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  11. Re:Screw the soldiers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..and then Americans can retaliate by replacing all food exports to Europe with Spam. Just as a friendly reminder.

    If you are really serious, then you should rather piss on the graves of politicians - not soldiers.

  12. Re:Screw the soldiers by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 2

    Hey asswipe, don't you need to go plant some flowers at Auschwitz, Srebrenica or along the Berlin Wall?

    --
    "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
  13. I'll never put on a life jacket again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We delivered the Bomb. The Hiroshima bomb.

    1. Re:I'll never put on a life jacket again. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Someone set us up the bomb.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  14. In the words of the late great Robert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or perhaps Peter Benchley...

    [the three men are comparing their scars]
    Brody: What's that one?
    Quint: What?
    Brody: That one, there, on your arm.
    Quint: Oh, uh, that's a tattoo, I got that removed.
    Hooper: Don't tell me, don't tell me..."Mother."
    [he roars with laughter]
    Hooper: What is it -
    [Quint solemnly clamps a hand on Hooper's arm]
    Quint: Mr. Hooper, that's the USS Indianapolis.
    [Hooper immediately stops laughing]
    Hooper: You were on the Indianapolis?
    Brody: What happened?
    Quint: Japanese submarine slammed two torpedoes into our side, Chief. We was comin' back from the island of Tinian to Leyte, just delivered the bomb. The Hiroshima bomb. Eleven hundred men went into the water. Vessel went down in twelve minutes. Didn't see the first shark for about a half an hour. Tiger. Thirteen-footer. You know how you know that when you're in the water, Chief? You tell by lookin' from the dorsal to the tail. What we didn't know... was our bomb mission had been so secret, no distress signal had been sent. Heh.
    [he pauses and takes a drink]
    Quint: They didn't even list us overdue for a week. Very first light, Chief, sharks come cruisin'. So we formed ourselves into tight groups. Y'know, it's... kinda like ol' squares in a battle like, uh, you see in a calendar, like the Battle of Waterloo, and the idea was, shark comes to the nearest man and that man, he'd start poundin' and hollerin' and screamin', and sometimes the shark'd go away... sometimes he wouldn't go away. Sometimes that shark, he looks right into ya. Right into your eyes. Y'know the thing about a shark, he's got... lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eyes. When he comes at ya, doesn't seem to be livin'... until he bites ya. And those black eyes roll over white, and then... oh, then you hear that terrible high-pitch screamin', the ocean turns red, and spite of all the poundin' and the hollerin', they all come in and they... rip you to pieces.
    [he pauses]
    Quint: Y'know, by the end of that first dawn... lost a hundred men. I dunno how many sharks. Maybe a thousand. I dunno how many men, they averaged six an hour. On Thursday mornin', Chief, I bumped into a friend of mine, Herbie Robinson from Cleveland. Baseball player. Bosun's mate. I thought he was asleep. Reached over to wake him up. Bobbed up and down in the water just like a kinda top. Upended. Well... he'd been bitten in half below the waist. Noon the fifth day, Mr. Hooper, a Lockheed Ventura saw us, he swung in low and he saw us. Young pilot, a lot younger than Mr. Hooper. Anyway, he saw us and come in low and three hours later, a big fat PBY comes down and start to pick us up. Y'know, that was the time I was most frightened, waitin' for my turn. I'll never put on a life jacket again. So, eleven hundred men went into the water, three hundred sixteen men come out, and the sharks took the rest, June the 29th, 1945.
    [he pauses, smiles, and raises his glass]
    Quint: Anyway... we delivered the bomb.

    full scene

    HD and short

    1. Re:In the words of the late great Robert by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I never liked the book. Mostly because I saw the movie years before I read the book. I wasn't thrilled with the subplot of the chief's wife and the biologist having affair, the wife hiding the black panties in the hamper, and the biologist getting killed at the end (which he thoroughly deserved for not keeping his pants zipped). That was so 1970-ish. Seems like every novel from that era had someone cheating on their spouse.

    2. Re:In the words of the late great Robert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or perhaps Peter Benchey...

      Nope. Robert Shaw and John Milius likely together worked out the Indianapolis monologue. A lot of the lines in Jaws were written by the actors, such as "You're gonna need a bigger boat," which is credited to Roy Scheider.

  15. Anyway... they delivered the bomb. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    here's to swimming with bowlegged wimmen

  16. Re:The good guys lost WW2. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pat each other on your backs and congratulate yourselves for helping the greatest and oldest evil in this world to succeed with their equally diabolical and old plans.

    The Zoroastrians?

    Are you still sore because you got your testicles shaved by one?

  17. Re: Screw the soldiers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If you don't like someone, say they're a Neo Nazi, the Internet will handle the rest.

  18. Shaw by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Robert Shaw

    May not have been the most deadly catastrophe for the US Navy, but certainly must be one of the most terrifying.

  19. On the other hand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure some of the crew were racists or homophobes, so they probably deserved it. Paul Allen should be ashamed of himself for finding it and, I assume, will be providing the coordinates so that embarrassment can be suitably destroyed.

    1. Re:On the other hand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shame we can't go back and replace one of those decent men who went down with the USS Indianapolis with your sorry excuse for a body.

  20. Re:The good guys lost WW2. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...with white people being genocided both in the USA and in Europe.

    [citation needed]

    Seriously. What the living fuck are you talking about?!!

    I'm white. I don't have anything in particular against white supremacists, personally... but God, I fucking hate their tired bullshit. How do they generate it in such massive amounts, and so obviously incorrect and... generally retarded? And I am really sick and tired of this. Show me evidence of this "Jewish Police State," or one lousy example of any genocide of white people any where in the world, any time in all of history, by any group even remotely Jewish, just one single example. Oh, wait, as long as there is hate, we don't need truth. Most of all, it seems, the white supremacists hate history, hate the truth.

  21. The Best Part of Jaws... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The Indianapolis monologue by Robert Shaw in "Jaws" was the best scene out of the whole movie. I was always fascinated by that story. Nice to see the story of the USS Indianapolis concluded 42 years after the movie.

    1. Re:The Best Part of Jaws... by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

      That scene is the sum of what I know about the Indianapolis and the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the story. Robert Shaw had a great presence in that movie. "Jaws" also had Roy Scheider with the classic line "We gonna need a bigger boat".

      Years ago I was on a Universal City Studio tour where we saw an animatronic shark from the movie. It looked so fake. I was embarrassed to think back on how scared shitless I'd been when I first saw the movie.

      --
      The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
    2. Re:The Best Part of Jaws... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice post, creimer, nice high moderation. Where did you get the idea for your post?

    3. Re:The Best Part of Jaws... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Where did you get the idea for your post?

      While at the bus stop after my gym workout. I did a search for "Jaws", found no reference and posted my comment. Only later did I saw that someone posted a reference to the novel without using the title. I seriously wonder how many people knew that Peter Benchley was the author of "Jaws," or that he had a cameo in the movie as the television reporter on the beach. The link regarding the Indianapolis monologue was worth the five point moderation. :P

    4. Re:The Best Part of Jaws... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As we know, anti-psychotic medications cause weight gain, Chris. Looking at ten year old pictures of yourself, you seemed a lot smaller back then.
      I think you just revised your youth in order to deny that you've gained a lot of weight from the medication.
      You seem to go through cycles of batshit insanity, followed by almost mellow sociability.

      So, which is it?

      Benperidol, Bromperidol, Droperidol, Haloperidol, Timiperone, Diphenylbutylpiperidine, Fluspirilene, Penfluridol, Pimozide?

    5. Re:The Best Part of Jaws... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, you certainly seem well versed on the topic. I take it you have tried them all?

    6. Re:The Best Part of Jaws... by dwye · · Score: 1

      You were scared because the shark was so fake that they didn't use it more than absolutely necessary. Thus, you saw your shark in your mind, which was probably more terrifying than any real shark.

  22. Re:https://www.al-awa2el.com/taif-clean/255-carpet by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    Is that flying carpet cleaning? Sadly, I have no flying carpets around.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  23. You can find plenty of graves in Europe by drnb · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a European, I'm sick and tired of American aggression ... I would like to indicate my displeasure for American military aggression by traveling to the United States and urinating on the graves of soldiers.

    You don't have to travel to America, there are plenty of American soldiers buried on the continent of Europe. They died so that you have the right to make your childish, myopic and ill-informed "statement".

    1. Re: You can find plenty of graves in Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm betting the 'piss on American veterans of foreign wars graves' poster was French... and probably a descendent of a willing Vichy government member. Please let us Americans know when you're coming over, and when you'll be doing the pissing. Take pics.

      (son of an American WW II marine who was attached to a similar battleship ... which wasn't sunk)

    2. Re:You can find plenty of graves in Europe by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I think Russian soldiers might want a word with you concerning the question who had to bear what burden of that victory... if dead people could talk.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:You can find plenty of graves in Europe by drnb · · Score: 1

      I think Russian soldiers might want a word with you concerning the question who had to bear what burden of that victory... if dead people could talk.

      Russian casualties had a large part to do with the incompetence of Russian generals, generals picked for loyalty to Stalin rather than military competence.

      Russian soldiers were also able to endure and ultimately be victorious due to American supplies. Food for soldiers, high grade steel for the manufacture of T-34 tanks, aircraft for busting German armor and logistics.

      The Russian soldiers also did not fight to liberate the continent of Europe. They fought to replace one mass murdering despot with a different mass murdering despot. They fought to claim a portion of eastern europe as vassal states to Russian. This includes allying with Hitler at the beginning of the war to split Poland between Germany and Russia, and to define agreed upon spheres of influence in eastern europe where Germany and Russia would have control. Russia was complicit with Germany in the start if the war, the invasion of Poland. The Russian alliance with the Nazis persisted until Hitler betrayed Stalin and invaded Russia.

      Yes the individual Russian soldier suffered greatly, both due to the Nazis and due to Stalin. While being forced into being the tools of Stalin for the above, their personal motivation were to defend their homeland and exact revenge on the Germans. Unlike the western allies whose soldiers also had motivations of restoring democracy to occupied nations.

    4. Re:You can find plenty of graves in Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Russian casualties had a large part to do with the incompetence of Russian generals, generals picked for loyalty to Stalin rather than military competence.

      That is true, but only part of it. One would be the large part of it was the simple fact that the vast majority of the German army was on the eastern front, where they did their thing for years before any Americans showed up to take all the credit.

      The second large part would be the absolute ruthlessness of the Soviet generals. May I present you with the following quote from Georgy Zhukov: "If we come to a minefield, our infantry attacks exactly as it were not there."

      Russian soldiers were also able to endure and ultimately be victorious due to American supplies. Food for soldiers, high grade steel for the manufacture of T-34 tanks, aircraft for busting German armor and logistics.

      Again, true, but supplies themselves does not kill the enemy, nor do they bleed or have suffering families. Besides, it's not like the Russians didn't produce anything themselves. Allied aid probably tipped the scales, but it actually wasn't like they were completely empty-handed on their own.

      The Russian soldiers also did not fight to liberate the continent of Europe. They fought to replace one mass murdering despot with a different mass murdering despot.

      Kind of beside the point. They were there and thanks to them the Nazis were defeated, and the Allied were saved an immense amount of bleeding.

      They fought to claim a portion of eastern europe as vassal states to Russian. This includes allying with Hitler at the beginning of the war to split Poland between Germany and Russia, and to define agreed upon spheres of influence in eastern europe where Germany and Russia would have control. Russia was complicit with Germany in the start if the war, the invasion of Poland.

      I think the technical term was "buffer zone". A for the rest, regrettable but welcome to the "realpolitik" of the early 1900's. Not that different from how old school colonialism was conducted, only closer to home. N.B that the Allies did the same thing at Jalta selling off large swaths of Eastern Europe to the USSR... so get off your high horse.

      The Russian alliance with the Nazis persisted until Hitler betrayed Stalin and invaded Russia.

      True, but I fail to see how that relates to the soviet soldiers as such. They still suffered and died in droves to defeat the German army. If they had had a wiser leader, less of them would have died, but that's on him, not them.
       

      Yes the individual Russian soldier suffered greatly, both due to the Nazis and due to Stalin. While being forced into being the tools of Stalin for the above, their personal motivation were to defend their homeland and exact revenge on the Germans.

      Agreed. Not sure how that lessens their burden though, which was what the parent was talking about.

      Unlike the western allies whose soldiers also had motivations of restoring democracy to occupied nations.

      Conjecture. If I may offer a bit of my own, their motivation above every other was to get home alive, like any other soldier apart from the true fanatics. Restoring democracy was a motivation for the politicians, mostly to create a reliable counter balance to the USSR.

    5. Re:You can find plenty of graves in Europe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Again, true, but supplies themselves does not kill the enemy, nor do they bleed or have suffering families. Besides, it's not like the Russians didn't produce anything themselves. Allied aid probably tipped the scales, but it actually wasn't like they were completely empty-handed on their own.

      They sort of were, not completely empty handed by likely enough to lose the war, to be pushed beyond the Urals and cut off from Europe. Without US food and trucks many Russian soldiers would have starved. Without high grade steel from the US many T-34 tanks would not have been built.

      N.B that the Allies did the same thing at Jalta selling off large swaths of Eastern Europe to the USSR... so get off your high horse.

      Not quite. When Russia and the Nazis made their deal to split eastern Europe there were no promises of fair treatment of the occupants of their respective territories. When Russian and the western allies made their deal at Yalta there were such promises.

      If I may offer a bit of my own, their motivation above every other was to get home alive, like any other soldier apart from the true fanatics. Restoring democracy was a motivation for the politicians, mostly to create a reliable counter balance to the USSR.

      You confuse the motivations for the idealistic recruit and the veteran soldier. The idealism lingers to a degree, when far from combat.

  24. Re:Screw the soldiers by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    Without the US, there wouldn't have been any Berlin Wall. However, even with the US, there was still Auschwitz.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  25. Re: https://www.al-awa2el.com/taif-clean/255-carp by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    It's as much fun to bite as it is to troll.

  26. Re:Screw the soldiers by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0

    Hey asswipe, don't you need to go plant some flowers at Auschwitz, Srebrenica or along the Berlin Wall?

    We don't need any Europeans pissing on the graves of American soldiers. We already have President Trump doing it.

    http://www.politifact.com/trut...

    http://www.latimes.com/politic...

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  27. Re: https://www.al-awa2el.com/taif-clean/255-carpe by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Let me send you a genie

  28. Re:The good guys lost WW2. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are beyond help.

  29. War graves can be visited by drnb · · Score: 1

    Allen's 13-person expedition team [...] will conduct a live tour of the wreckage in the next few weeks. They are complying with U.S. law and respecting the sunken ship as a war grave, taking care not to disturb the site.

    How do you do a live tour of the wreckage without disturbing it?

    You don't enter the wreck, you stay outside. You do not remove anything from the site, you take photos/video.

    1. Re:War graves can be visited by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Take photos?! They're going to steal the souls of those poor soldiers!

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    2. Re:War graves can be visited by dwye · · Score: 1

      Sailors, you damned lubber!

    3. Re:War graves can be visited by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      There's non-military sailors too, you know. I call anyone enlisted to wage war a soldier. It doesn't matter if he fights underwater, on the water, on the ground, in the air or in space.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    4. Re:War graves can be visited by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you really shouldn't brag about your ignorance, it doesn't make you look good.

  30. Re:Screw the soldiers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As a European, I'm sick and tired of American aggression. It is ruining the world, and it's time we put an end to it. I would like to indicate my displeasure for American military aggression by traveling to the United States and urinating on the graves of soldiers. If enough intelligent Europeans join me in this protest, perhaps we can show the Americans just how repugnant their aggression is to the rest of the world.

    And guess what? If you want to piss on the graves of US soldiers, there are 100,000 US soldiers buried in Europe - where they died for YOUR freedom.

    I notice you didn't post this in German or Russian.

    YOU'RE FUCKING WELCOME!!

  31. Re:philanthropist? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think you understand the meaning of 'philanthropist'.

    Paul Alan is indeed a great did source of funding. But not philanthropic funding.

    What do you think is the meaning of "philanthropist"? That's a real question; I'm curious to know.

    There is the time he was listed as "Philanthropist of the year"
    https://www.insidephilanthropy.com/guide-to-individual-donors/paul-allen.html

    Here's his foundation: http://www.pgafamilyfoundation.org/default.aspx
    It looks like philanthropy to me.

  32. Re:Screw the soldiers by Shazatoga · · Score: 1

    America was attacked by Japan, how is this an example of American aggression?

  33. The real enemy by fnj · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The disgusting part of this disaster was the way the US Navy persecuted Captain McVay, railroading him in a court martial with trumped-up charges shown to be nonsense by testimony of the Japanese sub captain, and finally driving McVay to suicide. He was the final victim, 24 years delayed. It took an act of Congress to force the Navy, kicking and screaming, to finally clear his record of all findings of wrongdoing, 56 years too late.

    The mismanagement of the stupidly, needlessly, and literally carelessly delayed search and rescue of survivors, as day after day drifting in the water dehydrating, starving, going mad, and being picked off by sharks, is also a huge part of the disaster. Something very similar happened at the Battle off Samar, in which hundreds of sailors from a small group of destroyers and escort carriers, after being pulverized by a huge Japanese battle fleet, were also left to drift for days, with many needless drowning and shark bite deaths.

    1. Re:The real enemy by Deadstick · · Score: 2

      Wow--after all that trolling, quibbling and backbiting, somebody shows up who reads things past the first paragraph. You must be an old fart like me.

  34. Re:Screw the soldiers by Deadstick · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You're feeding a troll, people...

  35. Fine, we'll stay home by p51d007 · · Score: 0

    While the moslems continue to change "European lifestyle", making more and more areas "off limits" to non moslems. With their birth rate like rabbits, they will completely OWN Europe in a couple decades. Once you Europeans figure it out and the war starts, we'll just stay here. Oh, thanks to help from the USA and others, we pulled your sorry azz out of TWO world wars.

    1. Re: Fine, we'll stay home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's a moslem? Asshat.

    2. Re: Fine, we'll stay home by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      A practitioner of Islam, you stupid fuck.

    3. Re:Fine, we'll stay home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks USA for all the weapons you sent or helped send to the terrorists for the last half decade, as well as air support for Al Qaeda in Libya and Syria and selling $100 billions in weapons to the Saudi and fueling their war planes in the air. I'm sure that helped.

  36. Re:Screw the soldiers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're feeding a troll, people...

    Also, they are feeding a troll that is unlikely to be European as he claims, but more likely is an American teenager.

  37. Re:USS Arizona was NOT worse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't mean to be morbid, but but the crew of the USS Arizona was bombed and drown. By all accounts of those that have witnessed such kinds of deaths, though death is rarely comfortable, the terror and suffering of those sailors was relatively brief.

    The crew of the USS Indianapolis, the vast majority of them, were eaten by sharks, estimated at times at the rate of a hundred men per hour.

    I don't think you can overlook this and just by body count and pedantically claim one disaster was worse than the other.

  38. Penguin skulls and ivory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will Allen pillage this site?

    "Deposed under oath, Jody Allen and several former security officers invoked their Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination when asked about smuggling ivory out of Africa or penguin skulls out of Antarctica.


    But the lawsuit did reveal that in 2011, the U.S. Department of Agriculture destroyed 72 pounds of giraffe bones that Vulcan had "mistakenly imported into the U.S." without a permit. It's not illegal to import giraffe bones, but you have to check the right boxes.
    "

  39. Re:Screw the soldiers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think you should stop talking and come on over to Arlington and get to it; you'll see some American aggression up close, should improve you a bit.

  40. Re:Screw the soldiers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Germany declared war on the United States Dec. 11th 1941. That is one of the contributing factors to you being "free".

    So fuck off little boy.

  41. Re:Screw the soldiers by davester666 · · Score: 1

    Exactly. Europeans hate it when someone else gets in on their thing. They hate sharing with others.

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  42. Re:Screw the soldiers by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

    I think you'll have trouble finding enough intelligent Europeans to even consider making an impact. Three or four just ain't going to cut it.

  43. This was a most excellent troll. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not that the material was fresh but the timing must have been right to derail this many comments this fast. Please do recall the point of trolling is not to make a point but to cause others to change their focus.

  44. Re:Screw the soldiers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL. Historical facts hurts, it seems. No wonder everyone thinks Americans are stupid, they just will not acknowledge facts.

    I bet the person downvoting that also thinks that the Germans in WWI were Nazis too...

  45. Re:Screw the soldiers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And if the US had stayed out of "the Great War" or at least moderated the French at Versailles, WWII wouldn't have happened. But you choose to get involved the first time, so it serves you right that you had to come back and help cleaning up the mess you contributed to creating the first time.

    You take your haughty little self-righteous "You're free thanks to us" spiel and shove it up your arrogant little ass.

  46. Re:Screw the soldiers by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    America was trying to strangle Japan to halt its expansion. You needn't drop bombs on a country to wage war with it, provided you can tell half the world to not do business with someone.

    For reference, see Cuba.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  47. Re:Screw the soldiers by kenai_alpenglow · · Score: 1

    If I recall, there wasn't a US involved at that time. The US withdrew from the world after WW1 (see G. Washington's recommendations), and had to be dragged kicking and screaming (and have a major naval base shot up) to return. May still have been an Auschwitz/etc., but that's another speculative history project.

  48. Re:Screw the soldiers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    America was trying to strangle Japan to halt its expansion. You needn't drop bombs on a country to wage war with it, provided you can tell half the world to not do business with someone.

    For reference, see Cuba.

    After atrocities done by Japan such as the Rape of Nanking became well known, America was put into a position of being a partner of the slaughter of Chinese people and further Japan war-making, or cutting off Japan's war supplies.
    In an unusual move, the USA chose doing what was right over making money.

    Refusing to do trade with someone is not an act of war. A blockade is an act of war, but the USA didn't do a blockade.

  49. Re:Screw the soldiers by Bartles · · Score: 1

    If the US had stayed out of the Great War, all of Europe would be speaking German today.

  50. Re: Screw the soldiers by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    We have an authentic genuine nazi, George Soros. The internet doesn't seem to care. He'll even tell you that the best years of his life was when he was with the nazis. Just check out his 20/20 interview, he says that. We don't need to look at Confederates, we have an actual living scumbag right there. However it seems he has a lot to do with their funding.

  51. Re:Screw the soldiers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh noes. And today we speak English most of the time when speaking to someone from another country. Foreign language $Y instead of foreign language $X. FREEDOM!!! Sigh.

    Seriously. If "you'd be speaking German if the Kaiser had won" is the worst you can come up with, you need more imagination, and if you think "not speaking German" is a sign of being "free" you need to have your head examined.

  52. Re:Screw the soldiers by Talderas · · Score: 1

    Why bother coming to the US? There's a far more readily accessible graveyard of American soldiers in Colleville-sur-Mer, France.

    --
    "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  53. Re: https://www.al-awa2el.com/taif-clean/255-carpe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anonymous Coward tells Anonymous Coward to go fuck his sister. Is he supposed to fuck Anonymous Coward's sister or Anonymous Coward's sister? Maybe they have the same sister.

  54. Air balloon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can't Paul Allen just fly around the world in a hot air balloon like any self-respecting billionaire? Having some billionaire prick prance around like he's a hero is kind of nauseating. Hey Paul, we still need soldiers on the front line. How 'bout you get your ass to Syria and put in some time "honoring the brave warriors" or whatever you're doing by sitting in the same fox hole for a couple years.

    *vomits*

  55. www.awa2l.com by MohamedOsama1718 · · Score: 0
  56. Re:Screw the soldiers by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 1

    Complaining about American aggression on a story about WWII? Hmm. I wonder which side you'd have been on.

    --
    Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.