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The IRS Decides Who To Audit By Data Mining Social Media (typepad.com)
In America the Internal Revenue Service used to pick who got audited based on math mistakes or discrepancies with W-2 forms -- but not any more. schwit1 shares an article from the Vanderbilt Journal of Entertainment and Technology Law describing their new technique:
The IRS is now engaging in data mining of public and commercial data pools (including social media) and creating highly detailed profiles of taxpayers upon which to run data analytics. This article argues that current IRS practices, mostly unknown to the general public, are violating fair information practices. This lack of transparency and accountability not only violates federal law regarding the government's data collection activities and use of predictive algorithms, but may also result in discrimination. While the potential efficiencies that big data analytics provides may appear to be a panacea for the IRS's budget woes, unchecked these activities are a significant threat to privacy [PDF]. Other concerns regarding the IRS's entrance into big data are raised including the potential for political targeting, data breaches, and the misuse of such information.
While tax evasion cost the U.S.$3 trillion between 2000 and 2009, one of the report's authors argues that people should be aware âoethat what they say and do onlineâ could be used against them.
While tax evasion cost the U.S.$3 trillion between 2000 and 2009, one of the report's authors argues that people should be aware âoethat what they say and do onlineâ could be used against them.
If you don't cheat on your taxes, you have nothing to worry about no matter how they decide whom to audit.
Not true. I was audited and fined for honest mistakes. The auditor didn't even catch the cheating.
After all, if you declare on your tax return that your annual income is $30,000 and your Facebook page is full of pictures of you taking vacations in Hawaii, Fiji, Bermuda, etc., as well as photos taken from your first class seat in the airplane, then they have good reason to audit you. As long as they're searching public information only (eg. your PUBLIC Facebook profile and Twitter account) and not using special government powers to look at private information which would not be viewable by the general public, then I don't see a problem with this. You have no expectation of privacy when you post your vacation pictures to your public Facebook profile.
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
Being audited requires production of huge amounts of paperwork, some of which you may not have. Even if you are honest about the numbers, it's kind of like being audited by the Business Software Alliance: the requirements for a license to be legal in the EULA are far looser than the requirements the BSA lays upon you, such as requiring that all receipts for all software purchased have your business name on them or requiring that you have the original installation media for the OS for the license to be valid even though the COA sticker and a matching license code entered in the installed OS is the only thing that's actually supposed to be required according to their own EULA. The IRS is no different. They may ask for receipts that have since been lost or damaged and on that basis alone you could lose thousands of dollars plus late fees and penalties to multiply those thousands further.
If nothing else, it is a major disruption to being able to run your business. It costs you money even if you're completely in the right. Posting anonymously because of fucking shit like this.
1) Create accounts in my enemies' names
2) "Confess" to cheating on my taxes
3) ???
4) Profit!
No facebook, no snapchat, no tinder, no grinder. Fact is, I'm as close to 100% out of social media as can be. I don't understand people who are into social media, I don't hang out with them. They're like smokers were 10-20 years ago. You want to take a pic of me and post it to FB? Um, no, I'll just step out. I find out you put a pic of me on FB without my knowledge and best case, you ain't my friend. Worst case I sue you.
You must have never been audited before. Audits cost time and money and you have to prove every little thing you claimed on your tax returns. It's meant to catch cheaters but it very often times also catches out people who are simply not prepared for one and even if you manage to get through one without getting whacked with interest or penalties you still spent quite a significant amount of time and money to do so.
Windows is a bonfire, Linux is the sun. Linux only looks smaller if you lack perspective.
I told you not to try to deduct those Brazzers live webcam subscriptions as business expenses.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Being audited requires production of huge amounts of paperwork
If you get audited, the first thing you should do is hire the best tax attorney that you can afford. Once you have legal representation, the IRS is required to deal directly with your tax lawyer, and can not contact you directly. Your attorney can cut way down on excessive demands for paperwork and documentation, which are mostly just fishing expeditions to intimidate naive taxpayers into agreeing to a "settlement" just to get the harassment to stop.
Of course, if you are poor, and can't afford a tax attorney, then you are screwed.
After all, if you declare on your tax return that your annual income is $30,000 and your Facebook page is full of pictures of you taking vacations in Hawaii, Fiji, Bermuda, etc., as well as photos taken from your first class seat in the airplane, then they have good reason to audit you. As long as they're searching public information only (eg. your PUBLIC Facebook profile and Twitter account) and not using special government powers to look at private information which would not be viewable by the general public, then I don't see a problem with this. You have no expectation of privacy when you post your vacation pictures to your public Facebook profile.
I've often wondered whether this sort of data can be used as evidence.
Recently someone live-streamed themselves driving drunk (in Miami, IIRC) and posted it to youtube, and were subsequently arrested and charged. I can suppose that he was also caught on traffic cameras, but what if he wasn't?
There's no reason why this sort of information can't be faked - I could easily make up a FB account to presents myself as much richer than I actually am, I could fake a live-stream drunk driving video, and I can simply put "PhD" after my name for more status. People fake news events all the time, and some of it gets reported by the press.
Absent any corroborating evidence, could social media data be used to convict?
If someone fakes a drunk-driving video and is arrested, can the police then be sued for false arrest?
How much of a legal responsibility do we have for saying only the truth online?
[...] I find out you put a pic of me on FB without my knowledge and best case, you ain't my friend. Worst case I sue you.
I was under the impression that you need to have suffered damages to sue.
Is that no longer true?
There is also the Medical Information Bureau, the credit bureaus, ChoicePoint, retailers, and so many other databases out there. And this is been going on for many many years. Back in '91, I dated a lawyer and she made a comment one time - "With someone's social security number, you can find out anything about that person." And that was 26 years ago when storage and computers were expensive.
This shows how government without breaking the law on spying on Americans (yeah, I know - like they care) can build a dossier on folks that would be an East German Stasi agent's wet dream.
And it also shows this filing taxes is just one big stupid waste of time for folks who have W-2 jobs. They should just do what is done in some European countries. At the end of the year, you get a statement saying how much you paid.
This is no different than people who post on facebook themselves water skiing while taking big buck in worker's comp payments and have multi-million dollar lawsuits in the works.
I'm sorry. Anything you post is fair game. If you are a bad criminal, it is survival of the fittest. Dumb ones go to jail. Smart ones live comfortably in Costa Rica.
Looking at publicly available (and in most cases self published) information isn't a violation of privacy by any sane definition. It may legitimately constitute something we don't like and may want to proscribe our government from doing, but it's not a privacy issue. Words; they used to mean things.
Audits cost time and money and you have to prove every little thing you claimed on your tax returns.
Exactly so don't you want governments to use all publicly available data to ensure they only audit the people who need auditing rather than wasting both their time and other's auditing people who have filled in their returns honestly?
I would have objections if they were forcing websites to disclose private information on users but if people have posted this information on a publicly available website for all to see they should not complain when someone does see it and if that data reduces the number of audits of honest people we all benefit.
Not at all. If you are poor and can't afford a tax attorney then you need to do two things: the first is to honestly declare all your income, and the second is to keep diligent records of anything you declare as a deduction. If you fail to do those thing you can be hooped even if you have a tax attorney.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Hmmm... maybe don't be on social media. Nuff said.
Hmmm... maybe don't be on social media. Now, nuff said.
... is legally special stuff, with severe penalties for misuse. (Well, unless you support Republicans or something. Then it's fine to misuse yours, "hater"!)
Anyway, yes, social media stuff is public, but data mined, finely sifted repositories of it stored in government data centers are not. I think we can make the case that they are "IRS tax data" and thus deserve the strict protections.
No. Slashdot predates the term 'social media' by a decade. Like most early communities, it is topic based not personality based. /. may be full of namefags, but your name or fake internet personality is of no relevance to technology.
Been personally audited twice.
First I looked over all the paperwork they saw I had made a mistake and ended up paying around $400 after all the penalties and interest.
Second they wanted around $4500 I looked over all the paperwork saw where I had made a mistake, submitted an amendment to that years taxes showing how I checked the wrong boxes and within two months the IRS had sent me a check for my overpayment.
If SocialMedia like '%conservative%'
Audit;
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
"argues that people should be aware that what they say and do online could be used against them." Now that's going to be news to many people. Especially if you think you are a right thinking individual.
Most poor people don't itemize, because the standard deduction is better for them. Just don't try to hide your income from the IRS.
What does it say when I can trust the Russian government MORE than the American one?
It was fine when all the IRS did wrong was screw conservative non-profits... no one got fired or punished.
Making the tax collector a political weapon was not a problem for Obama.
Why worry now ? Oh... you don't like it now that Trump is in.... I see.....
5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
Some wisdom:
A dollar coming out of the government is not a dollar coming in. In other words, your taxes do not pay for services.
What happens is that, if the government overspends, as it has done every year I have been alive except for 2 or 3 in the late 90s, the money is created out of thin air to make up the deficit.
The only reason taxation exists is to preserve the fiction that my first point is not true, and thereby hold down inflation.
If people grasped the fundamental nature of fiat currency, they'd rebel against the idea and the system would go south almost immediately.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
No, you ignorant douche. People misrepresent themselves on social media all the time. They make themselves look happier, healthier, and richer all the time.
You are advocating increased audits based on data known not to be reliable. Not effectual. At all.
Ignoramus.
Hey, even monthly bus passes can be a (partial) deduction in some places... encouraging people to take public transit.
And even at my lowest paying jobs, I was still putting aside some percentage of my income into an RSP, which I could always claim as a deduction against my gross income each year.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Big roads. Big houses. Big cars.
Lots of space. Say whatever you want and the government can't harass you or fine you for making a joke (see:Canada) or the government maybe jailing you for saying something politically incorrect (any EU country, particularly Britain, France, Germany and surrounding countries).
Plus the right to self defense (guns), especially of your home.
Not if you are married to senior tax manager(CPA) that sends auditors from 50 states,the IRS and few foreign countries packing. Wife took all of 5 minutes writing a letter to end our IRS audit. She really gets a kick out of pointing out all the items they screwed up in the audit and when they go home empty handed.
And now we know why...
I've been audited once and the IRS sent me a check for the amount I overpaid plus 14%. It was the best performing asset I had that year.
First I like it because it's another reason not to give your data to so-called 'social' sites.
Second, it's ironic that now people snitch themselves to the IRS instead of their neighbor snitching to it.
They go under medical expenses. It's therapy.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Spoken like someone who never had an audit.
Audits at the very least cost you time. If you hand it over to some tax guru, it's gonna cost you money. Not to mention that you can be the most honest person on the planet and forget something, welcome to being human. Too bad the IRS doesn't give a shit.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Welcome to America. Everything is illegal. Everyone is a suspect. You are always being watched. Anything you do or don't do will be used against you in a kangaroo court. You have no rights. You lose. Fuck you very much and have a great day!
Fun fact I actually know someone who's job used to be editor in the porn industry. Part of the job was checking what the competition are doing and his Brazzers subscription was definitely a deductible business expense. :-)
But $my_party said they would protect our freedoms from those dastardly $other_party villains!
Taxation is also useful to demoralize the masses, manufacture criminals, protect oligarch-controlled companies from competition, reduce socioeconomic mobility, and penalize disfavored groups.
Derpa
He's desperate to keep his finances hidden. I wonder why?
Then people shouldn't be stupid shits. It's no worse than an auditor seeing someone they know is poor driving a Porsche. At the very least, they're going to find out who owns that car.
And I don't really know anyone who goes out of their way to misrepresent themselves on social media. I guess your crowd are all shit-wads that have no lives. Except on FB.
Not the same as itemized deductions. Retirement plans are on a different line. Point taken, though.
Of and by itself I have no issue if they use public data. It however mean that they will go after the stupid people. The smarter ones would then not be audited.
That is unless they do random audits as well.
The danger is to go ONLY to these low hanging fruits as it is so easy to show results.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
The state I live in has a pretty generous workers' compensation insurance system, as far as the US is concerned, and there are a fair number who take advantage of it. Investigators routinely go around and follow up on some claims. Every so often you'll see a news story where they caught someone was supposed to be permanently disabled doing roofing work off the books, or posting Facebook pictures kite-surfing in some tropical destination. It's just enough enforcement to make people think twice about filing a false claim....or if they do, to keep out of sight.
In my opinion this is no different. The IRS has a large amount of data on people, but they can't afford to go connecting the dots on every taxpayer. They can do a few random audits, and that's how most "normal" taxpayers get to experience it. But for the targeted ones, they have to pick easy cases and/or the ones with the biggest potential recovery. If someone is dumb enough to post publicly visible pictures on Facebook or Instagram in front of their new mansion and Benz with the hashtag #AllCashBaby, or flashing stacks of $100 bills, then they shouldn't be surprised if the IRS comes around to check.
Outside of W-2 wages and capital gains, almost every income event and deduction is voluntarily reported. Normal wage-earners are almost never going to get audited unless it's random. Owning a wildly popular deli or pizza place, OTOH, and claiming $40K in income is a different story... People's oversharing habits just give the investigators another set of clues. Moral of the story is to keep a low profile! (and pay your taxes...)
"The IRS is now engaging in data mining of public and commercial data pools (including social media) and creating highly detailed profiles of taxpayers upon which to run data analytics" (30 words)
Removing redundancy, complex structures, etc:
The IRS profiles taxpayers by mining data, including social media, then analyzes the profiles. (14 words).
Wait, was it an honest mistake? Because you seem to have admitted to cheating.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Someone who is job? The patient guy from the bible?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
While you are not explicitly suggesting precious metals, it's worth a look at how they behave as currency.
Aside from the obvious inconveniences, they are also need to be standardized. This makes them subject, in practice, to chaotic manipulation. This transcription of a very libertarian historian's lecture recounts the tale of manipulation and inflation in ancient Roman currencies.
The lecture was intended as a cautionary tale about economic government management, but one important aspect of it is that, despite a currency based on precious metal coinage and an exchange economy based on that coinage and bulk precious metals, Rome still had essentially all the same problems people worry about with fiat currencies.
(For those unfamiliar with it, Mises is a libertarian think tank, and largely horseshit, but I rather like that lecture. Example of silliness: Road signs and lights that regulate driver behavior at intersections are an abominable menace to society")
It's possible to cheat on X and also make an honest mistake on Y. Protip: engage brain before operating keyboard.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
You realize that the tax code is so convoluted and conflicting, that the IRS advisors won't even guarantee their own work. That often, one can use several different methods for handling a tax item. And technically, everyone cheats. I don't think there is a single American who has reported every single dime they've received, every single barter exchange they have done, etc.
I thought I heard the other day, that the whitehouse petition site had a petition get over the 100K mark of signatures, asking to have the ANTIFA organizations be designated a terrorist organization....?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Suddenly, Slashdot doesn't give me mod points anymore as of maybe two months ago, but I'd mod this up if it did.
(Which is possibly why I don't get mod points anymore, but I used to)
The bias and corruption of Lois Lerner and the IRS is not imaginary, they've been politicized.
The Antifa comment is even better.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
Being audited requires production of huge amounts of paperwork
If you get audited, the first thing you should do is hire the best tax attorney that you can afford. Once you have legal representation, the IRS is required to deal directly with your tax lawyer, and can not contact you directly. Your attorney can cut way down on excessive demands for paperwork and documentation, which are mostly just fishing expeditions to intimidate naive taxpayers into agreeing to a "settlement" just to get the harassment to stop.
Of course, if you are poor, and can't afford a tax attorney, then you are screwed.
If you are being audited from your own individual income without owning a business, it should not be too difficult to prove the case. I once was audited and they claimed that I took a deduction which I was not qualified for. Of course, I was angry when I saw the letter because it is their fault not to double check what I claimed which was correct (and it should be simple). I had to submit a copied of some papers and a cover letter (explained my provided attachment for evidence). Then they cleared my case. It may take some times from you, but if you keep every thing when you file taxes, then it should not be a problem. If you don't have evidence (paper) to prove in the first place, don't put the number in when filing tax return, period.
If you don't cheat on your taxes, you have nothing to worry about no matter how they decide whom to audit.
Say what?
Even if you're completely fine tax-wise, getting audited all by itself is an expensive and damaging thing.
It's worse than this.
I don't think it's settled law if it is considered spying if all your personal information is processed by a computer algorithm without ever being seen by a human being.
And in today's world, it is increasingly easier to spy on people by algorithm.
Sorry let me correct that:
Someone whom's job.
After all, just under half the country voted for a criminal, they should be audited for being criminals themselves based on their party affiliation.
Actually way less than half. You forgot how many turned out to vote (less than 60% of legitimate voters) and less than half of those turn-out voted for him.
You must have never been audited before. Audits cost time and money and you have to prove every little thing you claimed on your tax returns. It's meant to catch cheaters but it very often times also catches out people who are simply not prepared for one and even if you manage to get through one without getting whacked with interest or penalties you still spent quite a significant amount of time and money to do so.
Once upon a time there were two types of audits. The really feared audits were TCMA - Taxpayer Compliance Measurement Audits. These were in depth, line by line audits of randomly selected taxpayers. The purpose was to get statistical baseline data about taxpayers and tax cheats. That data went into the models that selected non-random audits of taxpayers suspected of cheating.
As I understand it, TCMA audits stopped a number of years ago, but many of the horror stories people have about audits go back to that era.
Most audits today are targeted. The IRS sends you a letter saying that they are challenging particular aspects of your return, and asking for documentation of whatever they don't believe. Those can still suck, but it isn't a line by line fishing expedition, unless they think there is significant fraud happening.
A lot of rappers, thugs, and other morons that like to "flash cash" on FB/twitter/youtube.
I made a mistake filing my taxes around 1992 - copied a number from my home-grown spreadsheet into the wrong box on the form.
The IRS noticed and sent me a letter saying "you owe us $1200".
I looked, figured out the mistake, and replied saying "my bad - updated form shows I don't owe anything".
The IRS replied "you owe $1200 plus penalties for late payment".
Two more cycles of this and I was starting to get nervous.
Finally got advice from a friend and owner of a small software business - reply and say the magic words "please transfer my case to Problem Resolution".
When you do that, the IRS drops your file on one person's desk, and it stays there until it's either settled or in court.
One call to the IRS person in Problem Resolution and everything was fixed.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
Anything tax related mostly benefits the wealthy because they already pay almost all the taxes (by wealthy I mean top 10%). This "benefits the wealthy" trope is about as smart as saying life vests only benefit the drowning.
But, we know from Comey that if you flagrantly flout the law, but can claim that you didn't mean to, no prosecutor would deem it worthy of a trial.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Which is clear proof that the tax laws in the my country are asinine.
Requiring every citizen to play accountant and archivist once per year is ridiculous.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Before college, I ran a truck as an owner-operator. Had to buy a $200 tax stamp. You could not purchase a license plate until you paid it. I was hiring on to a company in a different state, the DOT wouldn't take a personal check, so I had to buy a money order to pay it. The "receipt" for the money order was 0.5" x 3.0".
The next year, I got a nasty gram from the IRS that I had not paid the tax stamp. I explain, of course I did, how else could I have purchased plates. They said I had to have a receipt for the money order.
It went back and forth for three months, and finally they gave up when someone saw the light and only charged me $10 in interest on the $200. The bent logic there hurt my head, and I just sent them a certified check just to end the ordeal.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
In that case, considering the record of the two major candidates, then the grandparent had the number fairly close.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Not my Klan. I’m as much a socialist as anything else. You probably misread me. You can be sure when real fascists present themselves they’ll be calling liberals the fascists, and so they are, daily in various forums around the net. There is a reason their nickname is the Cons.
But when a group tried to get traction with the slogan "ALL Lives Matter", they were widely flamed.
Cops arrest people for all sorts of boasting on the fBook. Pics of rolling around in a bed with drugs and money, or flashing a stolen gun, or just bragging about the new flatscreen you stole and are willing to sell.
The IRS doing it makes a lot of sense. I wonder if Zuck is worried what this info will do to his stock price.
I worked with X- IRS agents. They're audited every year. They admitted that they don't even know the law, it's so complex.
Here we have a chance to fix it. Probably for the first time in 70 years. I bet they blow it.
Do you wear a mask when you bust heads and vandalize property, too, Anonymous Coward?
You know, like a Klansman?
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
Of all the taxes, only the income tax has the feared audit. Occasionally a store gets busted for not collecting sales tax or collecting it but not paying it to the state or county or city or federal government, but that's not a fear that hangs over people's heads. Nobody talk about "weaponizing" the federal excise tax on tires to hurt political opponents. Why the fear?
Three reasons: complexity, amount, powers.
The federal income tax laws are complicated.
In fact, they are too complicated to be legislated laws. The Congress enacts laws which exempt some income from taxation under some circumstances, and provides credits under some circumstances, and requires some things be reported under some circumstances, but doesn't provide all the details. There's just too much. So the law (legislation) doesn't provide all the specifics, and the IRS fills in the details. It writes them into the regulations (regulatory law). Even then, they aren't always entirely clear and just (by the loose standards of the federal government). Cases may then go to court, and a ruling may come out overturning some part of legislation or regulation, or modifying it (case law).
So, all three branches of government are involved in creating the law (legislation, regulations, case law) which people have to obey. There's a lot of law to obey. Even IRS employees can't always give the same answer to the taxpayer's questions about what is required and what is not.
It's not just complex, it's also expensive.
If the most a person might pay was 3% of their income, an audit wouldn't be catastrophic. There's a rumor -- which I have so far have not been able to confirm or disprove -- that when the income tax was proposed a century ago, some wanted an upper limit of perhaps 10% on it. But that was argued down, because it was feared that if a limit was included, the tax might someday go up to that. Now there is no limit, not even 100%, other than the wisdom, restraint, and integrity of the federal legislators, bureaucrats, and courts. (Insert own joke here.)
It's not just complex and expensive, it's also rather arbitrary.
The IRS has a lot of relatively unchecked power. The IRS can freeze bank accounts, demand documents, impose or waive hefty fines and interest -- much or all of it without the involvement of the courts. And the burden of proof then falls on you. You can take them to court (judicial court) if you think you've been wronged, if you can afford it, and maybe you can win. And if you win, will the IRS employees who wronged you be punished?
Being upset about the IRS using social media to find targets for its audits is considering a symptom, rather than the root cause. It's like raging against how slave catchers use specific vague provisions of the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850, rather than objecting to slavery itself.
The constitutional amendment that authorized alcohol prohibition was (mostly) repealed. It's time to do the same for the amendment that authorized the income tax.
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
Of course all lives matter. Ducking FUH. Maybe if cops were shooting white people as indiscriminately as black people there might be a reason to say "all lives matter".
This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for