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Large-Scale Dietary Study: Fats Good, Carbs Bad (cbsnews.com)

An anonymous reader quotes CBS: New research suggests that it's not the fat in your diet that's raising your risk of premature death, it's too many carbohydrates -- especially the refined, processed kinds of carbs -- that may be the real killer... People with a high fat intake -- about 35 percent of their daily diet -- had a 23 percent lower risk of early death and 18 percent lower risk of stroke compared to people who ate less fat, said lead author Mahshid Dehghan. She's an investigator with the Population Health Research Institute at McMaster University in Ontario... At the same time, high-carb diets -- containing an average 77 percent carbohydrates -- were associated with a 28 percent increased risk of death versus low-carb diets, Dehghan said...

For this study, Dehghan and her colleagues tracked the diet and health of more than 135,000 people, aged 35 to 70, from 18 countries around the world, to gain a global perspective on the health effects of diet. Participants provided detailed information on their social and economic status, lifestyle, medical history and current health. They also completed a questionnaire on their regular diet, which researchers used to calculate their average daily calories from fats, carbohydrates and proteins. The research team then tracked the participants' health for about seven years on average, with follow-up visits at least every three years.

34 of 477 comments (clear)

  1. Makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've known for a long time from personal experience that sugar is a very, very bad thing. The best thing you can do in your diet is severely restrict the amount of sugar you consume. And then go from there, but start with that.

    1. Re:Makes sense. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is why I stopped drinking Pepsi and started drinking gravy instead.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    2. Re:Makes sense. by ark1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are fairly significant limitations in this study:

      "The researchers noted that their study did not look at the specific types of food from which nutrients were derived. And, that, said Bethany O'Dea, constitutes a "major flaw from a nutrition standpoint." O'Dea is a cardiothoracic dietitian with Lenox Hill Hospital in New York City. "For example, eating a healthy carb like an apple is more nutrient dense and better for you than eating a bag of processed potato chips," O'Dea said. "Furthermore, the study did not take trans fats into account, which hold heavy evidence of being unhealthy and contributing to cardiovascular disease," she pointed out."

    3. Re:Makes sense. by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Get over yourself. When people talk about sugar, NOBODY is talking about naturally occurring fructose or lactose.

      They are talking about the highly refined white stuff that looks a bit like a narcotic.

      Also, most of our "cellular fuel" isn't consumed in the form of simple sugars.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    4. Re:Makes sense. by Wycliffe · · Score: 5, Informative

      Oh, quit with the "poison" nonsense. Sugar is our primary cellular fuel.

      Sugar is not our primary fuel. Glucose is our primary fuel. Sugar is 50% glucose and 50% fructose. High fructose corn syrup can be as high as 80% fructose. Fructose is not the same as glucose. Fructose is processed by the liver the same way as alcohol and other poisons. The only difference between fructose and alcohol is that fructose doesn't cause you to get drunk. Very few people would dream of giving their 8 year old multiple glasses of alcohol a day but millions of people give their 8 year olds multiple glasses of HFCS every day.

    5. Re:Makes sense. by Archtech · · Score: 5, Informative

      Oh, quit with the "poison" nonsense. Sugar is our primary cellular fuel. The issue is the quantity, the level of refinement, and the relative difficulty in obtaining food not saturated in it.

      That turns out not to be the case. It is well known, and has repeatedly been demonstrated, that the body's cells run equally well on fat. See, for example, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/p... For further copious details, including case studies, see Gary Taubes' excellent summary "Good Calories, Bad Calories" (published in the UK as "The Diet Dilemma" for reasons unknown to all but the publisher).

      The only cells that appear to need glucose are those of the brain. However, it is easy to get the wrong idea even here. After a few days' fasting, the brain starts to use ketones which are produced as a by-product of metabolozing fat for fuel. A rather small minimum amount of glucose still seems necessary, but the liver manufactures this through gluconeogenesis. Indeed, the paper cited above clearly implies that the body can manufacture everything it needs for full health in the absence of any food intake at all, provided fat reserves are adequate. If the only source of protein were the body's own muscles, etc., no fast could possibly extend longer than a few months at most.

      The only reason why we have all been told that glucose is the body's normal fuel source is that we live in a grain- and sugar-fed society. Hunter-gatherers obtain much less glucose and regularly fast for varying periods. As long as one does not eat carbohydrates, fasting does not cause hunger. For instance, as I write this I have eaten no solid food (only some coffee with cream and soup) for over 40 hours. I feel great, and have absolutely no desire for food.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    6. Re:Makes sense. by king+neckbeard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've seen people posting that fruit is poison. Now, are all discussions to that extreme? No, but when you hyperbolic ally refer to sugar as "poison," you are contributing to that kind of ridiculous mindset.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    7. Re:Makes sense. by Archtech · · Score: 5, Interesting

      TFA says:

      "All foods contain three major macronutrients essential for life -- fat, carbohydrate and protein".

      That, too, turns out not to be the case. Protein and fat are necessary for life, but carbohydrate isn't. You will not be able to find any requirement for carbohydrate itself, nor for anything that comes with it. But if you examine carefully the constituents of a nice piece of fatty meat, you might be surprised to find how very nourishing it is. Vitamins A, D, E, K2 and the whole range of B vitamins are there, plus most of the essential minerals - and, what's more, in the appropriate proportions. That's not surprising, as the meat came from an animal that was in good health (until it was slaughtered).

      And by the way, the proportions of saturated and unsaturated fats in red meat are almost exactly the same as in olive oil.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    8. Re:Makes sense. by Ambassador+Kosh · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually this is not quite true. The fructose from high fructose corn syrup does get processed in the liver but that is due to the concentration levels. The fructose from fruit is not normally processed that way. when you eat fruit it takes time for your body to break it down and get to the sugars in it. This causes the amount in your bloodstream to be lower at any given time and a different chemical pathway is used. When you have purified sugars your blood sugar level spikes to dangerous levels and while cells can rapidly pull glucose out of your blood they can't handle all the fructose and so your liver gets handed the job.

      Also just to be pure 100% fruit juice is JUST AS BAD as soda in terms of the sugars. It makes the sugars extremely available to your body and causes your blood sugar levels to spike. It is far better to eat the fruit than to drink the fruit and this includes smoothies. In general you want to avoid drinking your calories.

      --
      Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
    9. Re:Makes sense. by Archtech · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "For example, eating a healthy carb like an apple is more nutrient dense and better for you than eating a bag of processed potato chips," O'Dea said.

      It depends very much on what you understand by "nutrient dense". A bag of potato crisps/chips has a lot more calories than an average apple - and weighs a lot less - so it is much more "calorie dense". Those calories come about equally from carbs and fat in the chips, from sugar only in the apple (mostly fructose, with varying admixtures of glucose and sucrose), making the chips again slightly better.

      The apple contains about twice as much fibre, but has no protein or fat whereas the chips contain both. The bag of crisps will typically have slightly more Vitamin C than an apple, and also provides some iron and calcium - and of course a good shot of sodium - whereas the apple lacks those but does offer some potassium and a little Vitamin B6.

      So on the basis of facts it's not quite clear which is "better for you". But notice how the dietitian simply declares that the apple is better for you, rather as a priest might pass down dogma to his congregation.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    10. Re:Makes sense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Bananas are nazis.

    11. Re:Makes sense. by pots · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sugar is not our primary fuel. Glucose is our primary fuel. Sugar is 50% glucose and 50% fructose.

      You two are talking past each other. Sucrose, glucose, and fructose are all sugars.

    12. Re:Makes sense. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Informative

      Alle Dinge sind Gift, und nichts ist ohne Gift, allein die Dosis macht dass ein Ding kein Gift ist.

      All things are poison, and nothing is without poison, the dosage alone makes it so a thing is not a poison.

      Paracelsus
      in 1538

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    13. Re:Makes sense. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Funny

      The only difference between fructose and alcohol is that fructose doesn't cause you to get drunk.

      This is why we should ban fructose. It's useless.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    14. Re:Makes sense. by HiThere · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why not? Sugar is a poison, even the simple ones. But so is oxygen.

      Also, to bring up a car analogy, if your gas measure is too rich in your carburetor you'll foul your cylinders.

      As with everything, it's pretty much a matter of proportions and quantity. A tiny bit of sugar is no problem. Too much and things start to go to hell. But the same is true of proteins (kidney problems) and fats (triglyceride levels). The body is designed to cope with these things, and with large variations in the food supply, but coping generally comes at a cost, and the cost is measured in life expectancy.

      In my case I OD'ed on sugars and carbs for decades before it caught up with me, so for me it's important that I *really* limit the proportion of sugars and carbs (except fiber) in my diet. I tried the Atkins diet for 6 months, and while it helped me lose a bit of weight it sent my triglycerides through the roof. Strangely, that's when I was diagnosed with diabetes. I've modified my diet now to something where sugar is essentially absent, non-fiber cars are *strongly* limited, and fats, especially saturated fats, are limited. Limiting fats has as an immediate result also limiting animal protein. (I suppose I could eat lots of rabbit or some such, but that's too much bother.) My triglycerides are back under control. Cholesterol was never a problem (my body chemistry generates low cholesterol as the problem). Etc.

      If you do this right you can even have breads, though you need to cook them yourself, as no commercial version is low in starches. My preferred mix is to replace flour with a combination of wheat bran, wheat germ, and wheat gluten....all essentially free of starch. You make things interesting by using different mixes of spices with each batch. Cocoa is good, but I prefer either pumpkin pie spice or curry. If you want to make yeast bread you need to pick ingredients that don't bother the yeast. With tomato sauce you need to add a bit of xanthan gum to avoid having bubbles that are so sharp you cut your mouth when you eat the bread. Some people like to add nut flours, but I prefer peanut butter.

      But note that this is necessary because I was an ice cream junkie for a long time. And cookies. Etc. If you have a different dietary history, you'll need a different correction, and it's easier if you can do it before you have a breakdown...of course, after the breakdown motivation is stronger.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  2. No shit by barrywalker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Anybody with an IQ over room temperature has known this for years. Funny that the obesity epidemic started in earnest right around the time they started taking fat out of everything and replacing it with sugar.

    1. Re:No shit by dfghjk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Anybody with an IQ over room temperature has known this for years."

      While that may be true, other threads in Slashdot, even recently, have been dominated by the "a calorie is a calorie" experts. You know the ones that have yet to experience puberty, much less a weight problem. I know expressing contempt for the issue makes you feel smart but it makes you look stupid.

      Until someone experiences what another does every day due to long term diet problems, they will insist it doesn't exist. As the experts have told us, fat people are fat because they are inferior people, because they want to be. We all know from these same experts that sugar is perfectly good, it's HFCS that's bad. These experts will spew their "knowledge" here as well, kids just don't get up this early.

    2. Re:No shit by ravenshrike · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't know about sugar being good, but I know I dropped 15 lbs switching to Mt Dew Throwback from normal Mt Dew without a change in consumption or activity.

    3. Re:No shit by Archtech · · Score: 5, Interesting

      around the time they started taking fat out of everything and replacing it with sugar.

      That would be around the time of the Neolithic Revolution, right?

      As a matter of fact, no. I think it was Dr John Yudkin, in his fine book "Pure, White and Deadly" who pointed out that in Elizabethan England refined sugar was about as expensive as cocaine is today. It was definitely a drug for the wealthy.

      Everything changed when the New World was discovered and exploited. It was found that the West Indies provided ideal conditions for growing sugar cane in vast amounts. Then the only problem was finding human workers who could survive the conditions - Europeans died (in the classic phrase) "like flies". Eventually it was discovered that West Africans tended to do much better, and could indeed provide many years of labour before dying. That kicked the slave trade into high gear, which in turn flooded Western markets with cheap sugar. Ironically, the horrible treatment of slaves led - as one of its by-products - to the sickness, suffering and premature death of millions who consumed the "product". And manufacturers like Messrs Tate & Lyle, who now appear in the light of mass murderers, became extremely rich.

      There was one serious problem with slavery. It seems incompatible with Christianity (at least with the New Testament). An ingenious way around this objection was soon found: to claim, with all kinds of spurious arguments, that black people were not fully human. Thus the demand for sugar led to slavery, which led to racism as we know it.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    4. Re:No shit by atheos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      imagine how much you'd lose dropping Mt Dew altogether

    5. Re:No shit by blindseer · · Score: 5, Funny

      Imagine the mess if he kept dropping the Mt Dew?

      I dropped a Mt Dew on the kitchen floor before and it just splattered everywhere. I cleaned it up as best I could but I still come across sticky spots here and there weeks later.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  3. Large-Scale Dietary Study: Fats Good, Carbs Bad! by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 4, Funny

    Until next week!

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
  4. I feel better by HangingChad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I switched to keto I felt much better. My blood pressure dropped along with my weight. I also don't get as hungry between meals, even when it's a long time in between.

    After a year I've started to add back in some carbs but not refined sugars. I have fruit, like blueberries, a couple times a week, maybe lentils. I try to keep my total carbs below 100 grams on any one day.

    Not every diet works for every person. The key is finding the one that's the best match for your metabolism. I had one funny issue, Splenda was causing me problems. When I cut that out, it made a world of difference. What works is what works for you.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    1. Re:I feel better by ArhcAngel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was introduced to the ketogenic diet in March. I was intrigued and thought WTH. If it can help me lose weight then great! What I experienced was SOO much more. I've suffered from adult depression for over 30 years and taken different medications over the years. None of which even remotely helped. A week in ketosis and I threw away my current meds and never looked back. Three months in and I'd lost over 30lbs. as well.

      If you look back at the start of the low fat movement you will find money. Always follow the money. At the time people were starting to use coconut oil more and soybean farmers got scared. Grease the right palm and viola...saturated fats are the cause of heart disease. This has since been completely debunked scientifically. But experts in the field have been beating the drum for so long they are having a hard time accepting that they have been wrong so their cognitive dissonance kicks in and they dig their heels in when presented with evidence.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
  5. Re:Not that simple... by beelsebob · · Score: 5, Informative

    Not just fats less bad - fats good (up to a point). The study found that your risk of early death goes down the more fat you eat, right up to 2.5 times the current recommended fat intake.

  6. This is why average people no longer trust science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is a good example of why average people, who maybe only have a rudimentary background in science, no longer trust it or what scientists are claiming.

    There have just been too many situations like this where scientists say one thing, as if they're 100% sure they're right, and then sometime latter they have to backtrack on their claims. Sometimes it even turns out that the exact opposite of what they're saying is actually true!

    The problem isn't that scientists are retracting their incorrect claims. That's exactly what they should be doing, and it's what science as a practice requires be done. The problem is that they should not be making claims that they can't substantiate, and they surely shouldn't be making claims that they'll need to retract just a few years later, especially if any sort of political policy will be based on their claims.

    Nutrition science and climate science have shown themselves to be two fields where claims are made too easily, and what is claimed either ends up being obviously wrong, or the predictions being made do not come to pass.

    Scientists in other fields, especially ones that have a much better track record of consistently being right, should try to publicly separate themselves from scientific fields like nutrition science and climate science. Greater denouncing of scientific fields and scientists with poor track records may be the only way to maintain, never mind restore, any trust that the public at large may have in science.

  7. Earlier than that by cirby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The obesity epidemic really started when the government told us to start taking fat out of the diet and replace it with bread.

    I was in high school and college when this really started to kick off (late 1970s), and the comment was "don't eat meat and butter, eat bread and rice. It's good for you."

    When the Food Pyramid hit, the diagrams always had a small chunk for meat and fish, with the entire base was made up of bread and rice and potatoes, and a tiny part at the top for sweets and fats. It was usually something like "2-3 servings of meat, fish, and nuts, 6-11 servings of bread, cereal, rice."

    That's the problem, not sugar. While people say "sugar is poison," plain old carbs aren't much different, especially in those proportions.

    1. Re:Earlier than that by cirby · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sorry, but not really true.

      The "Mediterranean people don't eat meat" thing started when an American researcher decided to prove vegetarianism is better for you than eating meat. So he went there to do a health study, since they were known at the time to have long, healthy lives.

      He chose to do his study during Lent. Which, especially at the time, meant the Catholics (almost all of the study subjects) were "giving up meat for Lent."

      So that study was bogus, and he KNEW it. ...and, by the way, he later went on to be very influential in Washington, and was behind the whole movement that later pushed the Food Pyramid and other bad ideas.

      On a similar note, the actual Okinawan diet (that people live a long time on) is very meat-heavy, and the trendy "Okinawan diet" doesn't have much to do with it other than the way they cook things. The actual Okinawan diet "starts with pig and ends with pig."

  8. Bacon? by rjzak · · Score: 4, Funny

    Time to swap that bowl of pasta for a bowl of bacon!

    --
    Professional Genius
    1. Re:Bacon? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Funny

      Oh no, I'm not falling for that all or nothing approach again. I'm having Penne Carbonara for dinner.

  9. Re:This is why average people no longer trust scie by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The news media hardly helps. I can't count the number of times I've read some story where they've grabbed on to some result and misrepresented what the science actually says or use it to draw conclusion that aren't supported by the research.

  10. Re:This is why average people no longer trust scie by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > Nutritionists, the real scientists in this field, have not wavered from the idea of the balanced diet. While adjustments have been made, the basics of what makes for good nutrition have not.

    So Mulligan's Stew being replaced with that obviously and highly unbalanced "food pyramid" must have just been my imagination then.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  11. Advice for fat people by hsthompson69 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Imagine you've been invited to a gourmet meal. The host tells you to "bring your appetite!" What might you do to make yourself hungrier?

    Maybe skip a meal or two earlier in the day? (less calories)

    Maybe go out for a brisk run, or workout? (more exercise)

    So, we know, categorically, that less calories and more exercise creates increased hunger.

    How does this help a fat person eat less?

    Now, if you understand the biochemistry, and how for a fat person, their fat cells are stealing all the energy from their muscle cells, then you understand the thing driving them to 5000 calories a day is starvation (from the muscle point of view). You don't need to focus on getting them to put less calories in their mouth, you need to focus on getting them to put less calories in their fat cells.

    How do fat cells get bigger? Under the influence of insulin.

    How do insulin levels get higher? Under the influence of blood sugar (literally to keep you from dying of sugar poisoning - it's a feature, not a bug).

    How is blood sugar raised? High glycemic foods, like carbohydrates.

    So if you want the fat man to stop being hungry, so he'll eat less calories, and therefore lose weight, you have to focus on the root cause, not just the proximate cause. It's the fat cells that are "overeating" - the fat man is eating 5000 calories because given the glycemic load of whatever he's eating, he needs that much to keep his muscle cells fed.

    Reduce the glycemic load, you'll reduce the hunger, and *that* will reduce caloric intake.

    tl;dr - getting hungrier doesn't help you eat less.

  12. Re:Another tiny "limitation"... by Zephyn · · Score: 4, Funny

    As the old joke goes - both the Italians and the Japanese eat like that and have a greater life expectancy than Americans, British, Canadians and Australians.

    Therefore, diet doesn't matter. It's speaking English that kills you.