Slashdot Mirror


PayPal Debuts a Credit Card That Offers 2% Cash Back (bloomberg.com)

PayPal is turning to its old nemesis, plastic, to help it expand beyond the digital realm. From a report: The online payments venture is introducing a credit card that offers customers 2 percent cash back on purchases -- one of the industry's highest rebate rates -- with no annual fee. The rewards will appear in users' online wallets and can be spent immediately on additional PayPal purchases or transferred to a bank. The move is part of Chief Executive Officer Dan Schulman's effort to transform PayPal from a payments button on websites into a versatile financial tool for everyday use, even in brick-and-mortar stores. He's forged 24 deals over the past 18 months with technology and financial companies including Apple, Visa and JPMorgan Chase, looking to make PayPal ubiquitous in the lives of its 210 million customers. The company already tested the card with some of them.

149 comments

  1. PayPal Seizes Financial Assets by thechemic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With they way they unnecessarily seize the monetary assets of 100s of thousands of their customers, you're going to need the 2% cash back in order to justify your relationship with them.

    --
    Let's make like a bird... and get the flock outta here.
    1. Re:PayPal Seizes Financial Assets by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      you mean recoup fraud?

    2. Re:PayPal Seizes Financial Assets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you expand on this? As a casual reader I have no idea what you're referring to, but I'm interested in hearing more.

    3. Re:PayPal Seizes Financial Assets by Mitreya · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And they are still not a bank from any regulatory perspective (in US).

    4. Re:PayPal Seizes Financial Assets by edtice1559 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Although this deserves the +5 (maybe Funny instead of Insightful), the vast majority of people who *pay* with Paypal have a great experience. It's the merchants who choose to accept Paypal that tend to have awful stories of not getting paid. I suspect that part of the reason, though, is that Paypal will accept merchants that Visa/MC would never take on as customers. Although Square seems to have managed to go after a similar market with a much better reputation.

    5. Re:PayPal Seizes Financial Assets by Chas · · Score: 2

      Exactly.

      Fuck PayPal. Them and the horse they rode in on.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    6. Re:PayPal Seizes Financial Assets by quetwo · · Score: 1

      They've been a bank for the last 17 years. The bank traded under the name "x.com", and was recently renamed when Elon purchased the name. They were FDIC insured as a bank until 2015 when they opted out after being spun off from eBay. Most customer accounts were considered "money market" accounts, and weren't insured, which is why they didn't offer any protections a normal bank does. Business accounts could setup a savings deposit which was insured, but they did make it difficult enough to do that most didn't even try (or know they could). They've not accepted direct deposits since they closed their last branch at the eBay Town Center in San Jose in 2015.

    7. Re:PayPal Seizes Financial Assets by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I have a Pentagon Federal Access America checking account and a 1.2% cash-back Power Cash Rewards VISA. Because I have Pentagon Federal Credit Union's high-dividend (relatively-speaking) Access America checking product, their Power Cash Rewards VISA pays me 2% cash-back instead of the standard 1.2% rate.

      Pentagon Federal Credit Union is definitely not PayPal.

      *Overly-verbose statements of products I personally use are not endorsements.

    8. Re:PayPal Seizes Financial Assets by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And for years, Paypal's outrageous 3.9% charge just over the actual exchange rate for foreing currencies don't help either. And that not even counting other fees.

      And more when they keep making their currency exchange the default choice even when explicitely set to use the card issuer currency exchange in the deeply hidden account configuration settings. Until they will reset it again.

      Even Aliexpress/Alipay charge "just" 2%, and many banks won't charge anything.

    9. Re:PayPal Seizes Financial Assets by thechemic · · Score: 2

      No. I don't mean recoup fraud. Start an eBay business and get it making more than about $4000/month. You'll find very quickly that PayPal will literally seize about 75% of your money and place it in "Reserve" status. You won't have any access to it for 180 days. In addition, they'll continue to freeze a certain percentage of all your income as your company grows. Need your money back to go on vacation: denied. Buying a house: denied. Think you can get your money back by closing your PayPal account: denied, for 180 days.

      PayPal has all the power of a bank without being burdened by any of the regulations as a bank. They act as their own judge, jury, and litigators. They can and will seize your money at will, and their's nothing you can do about it. I know because they're holding $14,000 of mine.

      --
      Let's make like a bird... and get the flock outta here.
    10. Re: PayPal Seizes Financial Assets by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      That's because you are higher risk of fraud than a brick and mortar store that's been open for years. I'm sure there's hold back for regular stores, but probably closer to 60 days. They need a better security deposit to reduce the 180 days.

    11. Re:PayPal Seizes Financial Assets by david_thornley · · Score: 2

      There's reasons why I don't often use Paypal to receive money and never leave money in my account. It would probably be easier to use it more and leave some there, just as it would probably be easier to give Paypal my banking information, but I don't trust them.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    12. Re: PayPal Seizes Financial Assets by thechemic · · Score: 1

      You have no idea what you're talking about. I was doing business for 17 years straight with zero incidents of fraud, charge-backs or any other issues when they decided to arbitrarily declare me a risk and seize my $14,000. Do a little searching; they're doing this to 10s of thousands of people all day every day.

      Within a few years, cryptocurrencies will make them completely obsolete. Personally, I believe PayPal is seizing assets to bolster their finances on paper for investors.

      --
      Let's make like a bird... and get the flock outta here.
  2. PayPal issues Credit Cards by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 1

    PayPal issues credit cards, pays interest on balance... but still isn't (regulated as) a bank (in North America.)

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
    1. Re:PayPal issues Credit Cards by fred6666 · · Score: 2

      from what I understand JP Morgan / Visa issue the card. Paypal just puts its name on it.

    2. Re:PayPal issues Credit Cards by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not quite. From TFA:

      >> PayPal is working with Mastercard Inc. and lender Synchrony Financial, the largest issuer of private-label credit cards, on its offer.

    3. Re:PayPal issues Credit Cards by edjs · · Score: 1

      It's a PayPal-branded MasterCard issued by Synchrony Bank. But yeah, nothing particularly special or different.

    4. Re:PayPal issues Credit Cards by green1 · · Score: 2

      So in other words, Synchrony Financial issues the card. Paypal just puts its name on it.
      So paypal has no need to be a bank for this, many non-bank companies have cards with their name on it without being banks. They're just not the ones who are actually issuing it.

    5. Re:PayPal issues Credit Cards by starless · · Score: 1

      I had really bad experiences with Synchrony administered store card: not taking payment transfer from bank account, then taking payment twice, then not taking following payment.

      I might actually prefer if it really was a paypal administered card!

  3. paypal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does it freeze your credit card when you initiate a chargeback?

  4. This is fantastic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not going to run out and get one, but a lot of people will (2% back is a lot...) and with any luck it will force some of the bigger players to do the same.

    1. Re: This is fantastic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bigger players can't do this.

      Large merchants pay under 2% plus a couple of cents per transaction. Much of that goes to the merchant's bank / underwriter / payment processor, not the card issuer. The issuer makes their money on interest and annual fees.

      PayPal can do this because they deposit 2% into a PayPal account and gouge 3% from the PayPal merchant when you use it.

      For normal cards to do this, the card issuing bank would need to get at least 3%, which means the merchant would need to pay 5%, which would end up coming out of the customer's pocket.

      So this would be awful if it caught on with other issuers.

    2. Re: This is fantastic! by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Gouging 3% of 2% means they're still giving you 1.94% cashback, and that's assuming that you don't just transfer the cashback to your main bank account.

      Their revenue stream will be the increased use of the Paypal lending itself, so hopefully millions of people will take this card and still not use Paypal and put the corrupt fuckers out of business.

    3. Re: This is fantastic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the customer's perspective, if they were already shopping via PayPal, they get the full 2%. And the merchant doesn't pay more than usual when they spend it, so it only hurts them if they also accept credit cards. Many don't.

      Basically this is evil-neutral, other than encouraging more merchants to accept a shitty payment type and pay higher fees than they need to.

  5. Do they still randomly confiscate your accounts? by sinij · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Do they still randomly confiscate contents of your accounts? I guess since this is a credit card product, now they will also have an ability to max the credit card for you.

  6. 2% cashback profit on fees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Else they wouldn't make money on it, which would kill any motivation for them to do it.

    Captcha: diamonds

  7. No thanks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have the one credit card and it is all I need, thank-you-very-much. And I use it like a charge card and I have it only for travel purposes and online purchases.

    I used to have a PayPal account but since they like changing their terms and conditions monthly and since I have better things to do than read shit like that and since the last time they did their terms were unacceptable to me - breath - I refuse to do business with them.

    They have been black listed by me.

  8. US news only by courteaudotbiz · · Score: 3, Informative

    Too bad this news is US only. I have a Canadian PayPal account and the page to sign up is not accessible.

    1. Re:US news only by green1 · · Score: 2

      Honestly in Canada you have a lot of other options for cash-back credit cards already, and none of them require getting paypal involved.

    2. Re:US news only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The crazy thing here which seems to go over peoples heads is that the retailer gets charged higher fees to cover this. Meaning that the retailer must put a margin on things. This is rob the retailer to pay the consumer but in the end the cost of sending the money from here to there and back again jacks the prices of everything.
      The consumer loses the credit card company gets their cut of the sale by getting in the middle.
      This is like
      1. Do you want to go direct and pay less.
      2. Do you want to go through a middle man and pay for it in fees.

      Credit card companies get rich but do nothing for anyone else. Sooner or later the retailers will revolt and simply say premium credit cards not accepted.

    3. Re:US news only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last time I checked, 1.25% cash back with no annual fee from Amex is the best I can get. The rest have some limitations, like having 4% introductory for X number of months; 2% on a category of their choosing... I do not recall seeing a 2% on everything with no annual fee available in Canada.

    4. Re: US news only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AmEx already charges higher than industry standard fees.

      Then there's people who but fashion and won't care what it costs.

    5. Re:US news only by green1 · · Score: 1

      Rogers Platinum Mastercard is 1.75% on all domestic purchases, and 4% on any foreign currency transactions, with no annual fee. If you've done any price comparison recently, you'll see that 1.75% of a basket of items bought in Canada is likely to be more than PayPal's 2% of the same basket of items bought in the USA, and if you decide to cross border shop to save the difference, you get 4% instead of 1.75%

      That said, there are other good options. Most of those "category of their choosing" include groceries and gasoline, which to be honest, are probably the things most people use their credit card the most on. Also there are some cards (like Tangerine) where YOU choose the categories for the extra cash back. Also depending on how much you put on your card annually, the ones with a fee may still make sense. For example I have a $99/yr fee on mine to get higher cash back (2% on recurring bill payments, 4% on gas and groceries, and 1% on everything else), but with the amount I spend each year the difference between the lower and higher percentage is way more than the annual fee, so it pays for itself.

    6. Re:US news only by green1 · · Score: 2

      1. Do you want to go direct and pay less.
      2. Do you want to go through a middle man and pay for it in fees.

      Except that number one isn't even an option anywhere. There isn't a single shop that exists in my city that will give me any form of discount for using cash or other low-cost payment methods. As a result I would be a positive idiot not to take advantage of the credit card and at least get the cash back. Yes I agree that they are driving up the prices of everything but as long as the price is the same regardless of which payment method I use I shoyld at least get the benefit from it.

    7. Re:US news only by hord · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Credit card companies provide convenience. I never have to worry about having the right amount of cash or dealing with change or stupid cashiers. Not to mention they scale to the internet and other transaction scenarios where cash is inconvenient or impossible. That's worth it to me. I think you'd also be surprised at a retailer's attitude in having a stable, audit-able, and secure transaction platform that doesn't require hiring security forces.

      Merchants also provide convenience. I mean you could just pick your items up on a dock for cheaper. Are you happy paying that middle man? What about the middle man that shipped the goods? Do you buy direct from the manufacturer? Why aren't you harvesting it yourself?

    8. Re:US news only by mjwx · · Score: 0

      Too bad this news is US only. I have a Canadian PayPal account and the page to sign up is not accessible.

      When I hear "WOW!!! Amazing CARD gives you X back and provides Y FREEE!!!" I immediately ask, "who is paying for it"?

      If no simple, reputable answer is forthcoming, I assume that I am.

      As with all credit cards, the merchant pays fees to accept it. As credit card companies in the US have made it pretty much illegal for a merchant to pass this on in the form of a surcharge, the do so by simply raising prices. So in the end, I'm paying more than 2% to get 2% cash back... However because most people don't ever ask "who is paying for it" they never see the negative feedback look that are credit card rewards.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    9. Re:US news only by Frederic54 · · Score: 1

      I am Canadian too, but my question is why using your CC for gasoline and groceries? A full tank is ~50$, a grocery cart is ~150$, I only use my debit card. For a bigger purchase, say 500+, I'll use my CC or put it on my home equity line of credit...
      Should I take a 99$ CC like you and start paying everything with my CC and reimburse every month? for a ~2% return? Is it worth the hassle? Especially since they are talking here to let stores charge you 2 or 3% for when you purchase with your CC compared to cash/debit

      --
      "Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
    10. Re:US news only by Cederic · · Score: 2

      But the charge for accepting Mastercard is set by Mastercard, not by the card issuer. So the cost to the merchant for accepting the paypal card or another mastercard card.

      So no price rises as a result of this specific card..

    11. Re:US news only by nukenerd · · Score: 0

      Credit card companies provide convenience. I never have to worry about having the right amount of cash or dealing with change or stupid cashiers.

      What exactly is the "worry" ? You just pull out cash; more than the amount if you don't have the "right" amount and get change. I worry more about people commiting fraud with my credit card details.

      Not to mention they scale to the internet and other transaction scenarios where cash is inconvenient or impossible.

      Ever heard of direct bank transfer? Try it. I know, I know : There is more legal protection with a credit card than a debit card or other direct bank transfer. However this is over-blown; in years of using credit cards I have many times got my money back on substandard stuff from the retailer without ever having recourse to the legal rights of a credit card. With many things it is scarely relevant - do you really need that credit card legal protection when you pay for petrol/gas say, or for your weekly groceries?

      I mean you could just pick your items up on a dock for cheaper. Are you happy paying that middle man? .. What about the middle man that shipped the goods?

      Shippers, and shopkeepers (both bricks and mortar and internet) are adding value or doing a significant service - physically moving, displaying, stocking, cataloguing and despatching the wares. All that the banks and credit card companies do is handle the money, or rather their computers do. 2% fee - how TF does it cost $20 of computer time to handle a $1000 payment?

    12. Re:US news only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As with all credit cards, the merchant pays fees to accept it. As credit card companies in the US have made it pretty much illegal for a merchant to pass this on in the form of a surcharge, the do so by simply raising prices. So in the end, I'm paying more than 2% to get 2% cash back... However because most people don't ever ask "who is paying for it" they never see the negative feedback look that are credit card rewards.

      If you are using cash, you are paying more than %2 to get nothing back.

    13. Re:US news only by green1 · · Score: 2

      What hassle? the credit card is exactly the same as debit for ease of use, and significantly more convenient than cash, but the credit card both gives you rewards, and defers your payment by about a month (so you can earn interest on the money in the mean time). There are literally no downsides and only upsides.

      If you use debit instead of credit you're passing up on easy money.

      If stores ever start giving a discount for using a different payment method, I'll re-evaluate what the best payment method is, but until then you'd be a fool not to use a credit card for every single transaction every single time.

    14. Re:US news only by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The downside is if you don't get your payment to them on time every month. I had a stroke once and missed one.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    15. Re:US news only by green1 · · Score: 1

      Set up automatic payments. Mine Congress out of my bank account automatically every month.

  9. FUCK YOU AND YOUR CASHBACK! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    IN THE FACE!

  10. Do the phishers also get 2% back? by enjar · · Score: 2

    Now in addition to needing to reset my PayPal passwords at paypalscam.serv3486.co, I've got emails that tell me to log into paypal.scamhaus.ru so my credit card won't stop working. What's next, PayPal mortgages so I can have my down payment routed to ppmortgageredirectmoneyscam.biz?

    1. Re:Do the phishers also get 2% back? by courteaudotbiz · · Score: 1

      Ar you still waiting for that dead Nigerian king's money? And your Russian girlfriend, is she with you yet?

    2. Re:Do the phishers also get 2% back? by enjar · · Score: 4, Funny

      When the son of the deposed king of Nigeria emails you directly, asking for help, you help! His father ran the freaking country! As for the girlfriend, she has been running into one immigration hassle after another, so things keep getting delayed. She's also had to deal with her sick parents and a number of other personal issues. But the money I send is worth a lot more over there, so it goes a lot farther and we should have it all sorted out in a few months when we can get together. It seems crazy that this has been going on for a year already, but we are making do with photos, email, texts and Skype for now. But with all that money I'm making off the Nigerians, it's no big deal to cover these minimal expenses for the woman who is my soul mate, I'm sure!

    3. Re:Do the phishers also get 2% back? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you lend me some money so that I can claim the lottery ticket I won? Totally gonna pay you back bro.

    4. Re:Do the phishers also get 2% back? by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Phishing scams already attack your bank account, credit card, mortgage, tax etc etc. I fail to see how Paypal opening up to a different payment method has any affect on this.

    5. Re:Do the phishers also get 2% back? by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      Tell the Russian GF that if she does not hurry up you will switch your affections to a gorgeous and fabulously wealthy Nigerian princess who keeps emailing you, consumed with desire. I can put you in touch with one or two.

  11. confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Didn't they do this 10 years ago?

  12. I don't know by HBI · · Score: 1

    Because I cancelled my account when I became aware of their unethical practices. I don't give businesses second chances. No one else should, either.

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    1. Re:I don't know by stinerman · · Score: 2

      Should I also not give people second chances or just businesses?

    2. Re:I don't know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      According to the Citizens United decission, your statement is redundant.

    3. Re: I don't know by Brockmire · · Score: 1

      What's it like living in the 19th century, then? About the only business you can say that about is the old lady that bakes the bread.

  13. Paypal discriminates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No thanks.

  14. spam bots start your engines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get ready for the inevitable round of paypal credit card phishing spam filling up your in box
    As if i don't already get enough paypay, random bank, amazon, facebook drug and porn phishing spam now i can expect to be getting paypal credit card spam
    yippee!!

  15. Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

    In other news, my credit union offered an "eclipse astounding" debt consolidation loan at 8% APR. The 2% back credit card that I have is 24% APR. If I pay the same monthly amount that I paid on the credit card for the debt consolidation loan, I'll be out of debt in three years. Seems like a no brainer.

    1. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      The actual no-brainer is to stop carrying credit card debt from month to month. Use the card by all means, reap the cash-back benefits, and then pay it off in full at the end of every month. If you need a "debt consolidation" loan, and it'll take you 3 years to pay it off, that's pretty a pretty fucking dumb way to manage your credit.

      Apparently you didn't learn your lesson from filing bankruptcy a few years ago.

    2. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by green1 · · Score: 1

      Or you could avoid carrying a balance.

      Credit cards are a horrendous place to keep your debt. But they're a great way to do your shopping. Make sure you pay off the credit card in full every single month. If you also have debt, make sure that's in a low interest bank loan, and never the 2 shall meet.

    3. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Cool story bro, does your credit union also have a near ubiquitous online presence and is effectively transforming it's core business into something else? Maybe you want to head over to Breitbart if Slashdot covering an IT finance story somehow is too slow for you. I hear Trump fucked up something again.

    4. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you could take these 100000$ a year jobs that 200 recruiters a day are offering you.

      You could do that, if it were actually true.

    5. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      If you need a "debt consolidation" loan, and it'll take you 3 years to pay it off, that's pretty a pretty fucking dumb way to manage your credit.

      The alternative to the debt consolidation loan is to pay off the credit card with savings and have less cash in savings.

      Apparently you didn't learn your lesson from filing bankruptcy a few years ago.

      My 2011 bankruptcy was the result of being out of work and exhausting my savings in 2.5 years. The mistake I made then was hoping that I would get a new job and kept paying my bills on time. If I had stopped paying my bills, I could have cleared bankruptcy with $5,000 in savings instead of the $25 in checking the day after my bankruptcy got finalized.

    6. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cashback credit cards are financially sound for people who can pay their bills, not people who are buried in debt.

    7. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The alternative to the debt consolidation loan is to pay off the credit card with savings and have less cash in savings.

      Once again, creimer fails economics. Some of the best possible savings accounts right now are paying 1 - 1.25% interest. Average is significantly lower than that. Parking a significant chunk of savings into an account paying 1.25% interest, while you are paying even *8%* interest on debt is a net loss of money. Paying off that 8% interest debt means that the savings you pour into that are guaranteed to earn an 8% return, instead of the 1.25% return it gets parked in savings.

      For someone who claims to live within his means, carrying around debt is a big indicator that you're not living within your means. You need a financial checkup to go with that yearly physical, creimer. Seek professional help.

    8. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      For someone who claims to live within his means, carrying around debt is a big indicator that you're not living within your means.

      Being out of work for eight months after the October 2013 government shutdown really hurt my finances when I still had next to nothing in savings after working seven days a week for two years. I had to take out a loan from my credit union to pay the rent when I got my current job three years ago. I paid off that 24-month loan in 16 months. I could have simply paid off my credit card from savings. But there might be another government shutdown in September if Trump doesn't get his damn wall. Alas, I'm classified as an essential employee and would have to work without a paycheck if the government shuts down. I don't know about you, but I would rather eat while serving my country.

      Seek professional help.

      That's why I got the debt consolidation loan. Instead paying the balance @ 24% APR for 22 years (according to the monthly statement), I can pay off the entire balance @ 8% APR in three years. There's no penalty for paying off the balance early.

    9. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Fool. You are going to sink the economy, eliminate your own job and tank every investment you have. Consumer debt is the lifeblood of the American economy.

    10. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The government was only shut down for 16 days in 2013, not eight months, and federal employees received back pay.

      https://federalnewsradio.com/budget/2013/10/funding-bill-includes-back-pay-for-furloughed-feds-clears-way-for-potential-january-pay-raise/

    11. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      The government was only shut down for 16 days in 2013, not eight months, and federal employees received back pay.

      The Fortune 500 corporation that I worked for used the government shutdown as an excuse to lay off 10% of the workforce. The CEO still got a bonus for having a lousy fiscal year. Despite having 60+ job interviews, it still took me eight months to find a new job.

    12. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being out of work for eight months after the October 2013 government shutdown really hurt my finances when I still had next to nothing in savings after working seven days a week for two years.

      Then you weren't really living within your means, were you? If you had no savings after two years of backbreaking work, maybe it was time to stop fucking around with your online pyramid schemes, and actually up your skill level so you could get a job that pays you 6 figures?

      But there might be another government shutdown in September if Trump doesn't get his damn wall.

      So... you've got no savings again after FOUR years, and you've run up a significant amount of debt on ridiculously high rate credit cards? Again... sounds like you don't know the meaning of living within your means. Perhaps it's time to tighten the belt a bit and stop wasting money on your pyramid schemes.

      That's why I got the debt consolidation loan. Instead paying the balance @ 24% APR for 22 years (according to the monthly statement), I can pay off the entire balance @ 8% APR in three years. There's no penalty for paying off the balance early.

      It's an improvement, but it's still *stupid* to sock away savings at a paltry 1% rate, when you're paying debt off at even an 8% rate. Let's take a simple illustration:

      You have a $100 savings account, earning 1.25% APY. After 1 year, that $100 would grow to $101.26. You'll have earned $1.26 on that money.
      You have a $100 loan to pay off, costing 8% APY. After 1 year, that $100 debt would grow to $108.30. You'll have lost $8.30 on that money.

      Your net worth is -$7.04 after one year.

      If you take the $100 savings and pay off the $100 loan, you will have a $0 net worth immediately, but over the course of the year, you can begin socking away money into your savings account, increasing your net worth and beginning to earn interest on money without costing yourself interest on a debt.

      There's no way that you can carry a debt and make money on your savings - it just doesn't work this way.

    13. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by green1 · · Score: 1

      Interestingly enough, I didn't even speak out against debt. I just suggested keeping debt in a low interest loan instead of on a credit card.

      That said, I maintain zero debt and strongly suggest that others do the same if at all possible (and it is possible for a much larger segment of the population than think it is)

    14. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh my god, you're a 47 year old who recently filed for bankruptcy and thinks he'll be in debt until 50? You're not that far from retirement age, and certainly getting to the "nobody in tech will hire you if you lose your job" age. Average social security payment is $16K/year. You will be sleeping on the fucking street if you don't get some amount of savings.

    15. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, you got fired and the government shut down had nothing to do with it. Are you even a federal employee now or is "classified as an essential employee and would have to work without a paycheck" yet another self-deceptive half-truth? Because essential government employees, might be furloughed by a shutdown, but they are rarely uncompensated for their work.

    16. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Because essential government employees, might be furloughed by a shutdown, but they are rarely uncompensated for their work.

      When the federal government gets shut down, one-half of the workforce gets furloughed. The other half are designated essential employees who must report to work and go unpaid during that time. If the government shuts down next month, I still have to report to my station whether I get paid or not.

    17. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you considered the only common denominator in all the failure you have experienced is you?

    18. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      If you had no savings after two years of backbreaking work [...]

      It took six months of unemployment benefits, savings, a credit card and a bank loan to keep me afloat for eight months.

      So... you've got no savings again after FOUR years [...]

      It took 16 months to pay off the bank loan and 32 months to build up a cash reserve.

      Perhaps it's time to tighten the belt a bit and stop wasting money on your pyramid schemes.

      I had three options for dealing with the credit card debt:

      1) Continue to make regular payments @ 24% APR.
      2) Pay off the credit card with savings and rebuild my cash reserve.
      3) Get a debt consolidation loan @ 8% and leave my cash reserve untouched.

      With Donald Trump threatening to shut down the government over his damn wall, and, being a government employee, option #3 was the most prudent option.

      There's no way that you can carry a debt and make money on your savings - it just doesn't work this way.

      You don't make money on savings. If I wanted to make more money, I would put more money into my brokerage and/or side business. I'm content to reinvest the dividends and profits in each one.

    19. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Have you considered the only common denominator in all the failure you have experienced is you?

      It's called life. When God hands out lemons, you can either suck it down tequila or make lemonade. I've been making lemonade for years now.

    20. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Pay your bill in full every month, automatically (i.e. auto-pay), and you end up paying LESS than those who pay with cash or check, AND it's more convenient.

      Win win win, for me.

      (This new PayPal one isn't interesting, since there's already the DoubleCash card that's 2% back on everything, and many others that give even more than that for various categories..)

    21. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Oh my god, you're a 47 year old who recently filed for bankruptcy and thinks he'll be in debt until 50?

      I'll be debt free in three years — and the economy will collapse.

    22. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought you were going to live to 120?

    23. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God must be handing out sugared lemons, by the size of you.

    24. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol, you're not going to debt free in 3 years. you can't even hold down a job for that long. your career is a cycle of dead-end jobs and extended unemployment.

    25. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It took 16 months to pay off the bank loan and 32 months to build up a cash reserve.

      Yes, and in that 32 months, you've run up debts equalling a significant portion of your cash reserves - if paying it off would leave you with a still-significant savings balance, you'd think nothing of simply paying off the credit debt. Again: this is not what fiscal discipline and living within your means looks like. You are incurring debt at a higher interest rate in order to fund savings at a LOWER interest rate than what you are incurring for debt.

      It makes sense to borrow if:
      1) The asset being purchased with the loan will appreciate in value (e.g., house)
      2) You have the cash to pay off your debt immediately (e.g., collect cash rewards, but don't carry a month-to-month balance)
      3) You have *literally* no other legal options for paying.

      What I hear is, "For 32 months, I've been living on my credit card building up debt, while saving up a very small amount of money that's earning me no interest. And at this point, paying off my debt will leave me with no savings, which means I'm going to continue paying significant interest on that debt, while making next to nothing in interest on my savings. This will continue to erode my net worth, and continue to erode my financial security, until I'm forced to declare bankruptcy again in a few more years."

      You don't make money on savings.

      Then why are you treating it as if it's some sort of precious commodity that you can't touch? The "true cost" of those savings is the interest you make on the savings account MINUS the interest you're paying to carry high-interest credit card debt month to month. That means it is *costing* you extra money to build that savings account, and that means you are spending *more* money and putting yourself in a *worse* financial position by insisting on building savings.

      Order of importance:
      1) Max your contribution to your 401k, if it's available to you. At the least, max any employer matching, since that's free money.
      2) Pay down your high-interest consumer debt that isn't tied to an asset that appreciates in value;
      3) Save up 6-12 months of highly liquid living expenses. Shoot for 6-12 months of "unchanged lifestyle" living expenses, and also figure out how you can make that money stretch further by cutting your regular expenses to the bone. I have 12 months saved up, and I can stretch that beyond 24 months if I really need to by reducing expenses, moving to a cheaper place, swapping my car for a cheaper/used one, cutting cable & internet, reducing phone / data plans, reducing my hobby and dining out expenses, etc.
      4) Excess money after that gets invested in a diversified low-fee mutual fund - consider an index fund, or one that's tied to your retirement year.
      5) If you have mad money after all of that, then you start playing with individual stocks, or a hobby like your side "business" that could return some income, but probably won't be worth the effort.

      You have basically completely reversed the priorities of these items, and so you will certainly achieve financial ruin.

      If I wanted to make more money, I would put more money into my brokerage and/or side business. I'm content to reinvest the dividends and profits in each one.

      So you're okay making eking-by wages in one of the most expensive areas on the planet, living from paycheck to paycheck, and actually wasting money on interest payments you could avoid making, which are costing you a significant amount of extra money from your already small paycheck every year.

      Gotcha. Creimer, you're a hoot.

    26. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      lol, you're not going to debt free in 3 years. you can't even hold down a job for that long. your career is a cycle of dead-end jobs and extended unemployment.

      I've been at my current job for three years. Contract doesn't expire for another two years.

    27. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      You have basically completely reversed the priorities of these items, and so you will certainly achieve financial ruin.

      5) Done. 4) Done. 3) Done. 2) In progress. 1) In progress.

    28. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. You will be unemployed again a year before you plan to be debt free. You don't need a financial advisor, you need a math tutor.

    29. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You would be lucky if God handed you lemons. God has been pissing in your face and you're only trying to convince yourself that its lemonade.

    30. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try reading some of his ebooks for fun.

      https://www.kobo.com/ca/en/ebo...

      This guy has splattered his digital excrement all over the place, it's fascinating.

    31. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    32. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for underscoring my point. In terms of priority, 1 is most important, 5 is least important. You have focused on the "fun" things that are of negligible value, while ignoring basic financial common sense that's incredibly important.

      How does it feel being completely terrible at literally everything you decide to do, creimer?

    33. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      You have focused on the "fun" things that are of negligible value, while ignoring basic financial common sense that's incredibly important.

      I supposed you could call building businesses and stock portfolios fun. I've done both since I was a teenager.

      How does it feel being completely terrible at literally everything you decide to do, creimer?

      We have different priorities. You want to climb the corporate ladder. I want to own the corporate ladder.

    34. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want to own the corporate ladder.

      Get your ego in check. Nothing like this is going to happen. You are a 47 year old who recently declared bankruptcy and has little in the way of savings. You will have to move into a mobile home in the boonies after you retire, because social security isn't enough to live off of, even if you save up $10K a year until you retire. Meanwhile, you brag about making $3/day as a "job."

    35. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      [....] has little in the way of savings.

      What's the value of my brokerage, business and retirement accounts? I'll wait while you pull an imaginary number out of your ass to low ball.

      Meanwhile, you brag about making $3/day as a "job."

      A revenue stream isn't a job. But thanks for the coffee money!

    36. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I supposed you could call building businesses and stock portfolios fun. I've done both since I was a teenager.

      And what do you have to show for your thirty years of work? A shitty studio apartment, a bankruptcy, and a new mountain of debt that you can't get out from under because of your poor planning? Yeah, you're doing a great job. Maybe it's time to take some useful advice from someone else, instead of declaring that you know best, when you demonstrably do not.

      We have different priorities. You want to climb the corporate ladder. I want to own the corporate ladder.

      First: nothing I've said requires or assumes your goal is "climbing the corporate ladder." It's about taking advantage of the benefits and resources available to you while you're an employee. If you're employed (you are, for now - until you get laid off *again* for shitposting all day and wasting resources doing janitorial work), you should take advantage of your employer's retirement program if it's available to you. You should be contributing at least enough to maximize any matching your employer does, and given your advanced age and looming medical bills (from complications of poorly controlled type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, and other co-morbidities of metabolic syndrome), you should be saving the maximum, including catch-up contributions when and if they're available to you.

      Second: You don't make anywhere near enough money to be "owning" the corporate ladder. How do we know this? You have next to nothing in savings, and you're scared to death of tapping into what little you have, while you rack up more and more high-interest consumer debt. You don't have money to waste on extra interest payments, yet there you are, wasting money like you're printing it, and refusing to live within your means - which probably means moving out of silicon valley to someplace cheaper - like Texas.

      Third: The only ladder you have a shot at owning is the stepstool they put in the McDonald's play areas to help little kids climb up onto the monkey bars.

      Fourth: Your response is a non-response. It's more smoke and mirrors designed to distract from the fact that you have no rational argument for any of what you're doing, you simply jump from one impulse satisfying moment to another, without any thought for the future. You have no plan, you have no realistic goals, and you are a failure. "Owning the corporate ladder" is for winners. You are not a winner.

    37. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the value of my brokerage, business and retirement accounts? I'll wait while you pull an imaginary number out of your ass to low ball.

      I'm going to be charitable, and assume you're not a complete fucking moron, and say "the value of those accounts is far less than the amount of consumer debt you're carrying around." Because if they're much higher, and you haven't tapped into those resources to pay off your credit card debt, then you're REALLY a fucking moron. Your credit card charges 24% APY, which is a return you *will not see* anywhere in the stock market or a small home business. If you are continuing to fund those - which MIGHT average around 10% APY in a REALLY good year - while racking up consumer debt at 24% interest, you're a fucking moron.

      So, which is it - are you a moron? Or do you have next to nothing in your brokerage, retirement, and business accounts?

    38. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      So, which is it - are you a moron? Or do you have next to nothing in your brokerage, retirement, and business accounts?

      Why would a credit union give someone a $2,500 loan to the pay the rent when that person had a bankruptcy three years earlier, out of work for eight months and a employment contract that doesn't start in 30 days?

      Why would the same credit union give the same person a second, larger loan three years later to pay off a credit card without closing the credit card account?

      BTW, Neither of these loans are unsecured.

    39. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make money on savings? That ship has sailed years ago.

    40. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      A shitty studio apartment, a bankruptcy, and a new mountain of debt that you can't get out from under because of your poor planning? Yeah, you're doing a great job.

      That's what any scam artist or ambulance attorney is supposed to see — and then move on to the next target. A person with no assets in his name isn't worth the trouble.

      First: nothing I've said requires or assumes your goal is "climbing the corporate ladder."

      Conventional wisdom says you go to school, get good grades, get a job, get married and have kids, buy a house, work 30 years to build up retirement savings, and, if you're very lucky, you might get to enjoy life. A.K.A., climbing the corporate ladder.

      Unfortunately, I've never had a conventional life. What do unconventional people do? They start businesses and invest in the stock market.

      Second: You don't make anywhere near enough money to be "owning" the corporate ladder.

      If you had paid attention to the "drama" around my comments, you would know that I had limited liability company (elected as a corporation for tax purposes) and shut it down two years later. Why? Because it was in my name.

      Third: The only ladder you have a shot at owning is the stepstool they put in the McDonald's play areas to help little kids climb up onto the monkey bars.

      If interest rates ever go up, I'll have to set up a CD ladder.

      Fourth: Your response is a non-response.

      That's because you're a troll and I'm playing with you.

    41. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want to own the corporate ladder.

      You don't even own a home or a car. The corporate ladder is a bit out of your grasp.

    42. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      The corporate ladder is a bit out of your grasp.

      Depending on which state you file the paperwork, a corporation can be created for as low as a few hundred dollars. The most practical business entity is a limited liability company taxed as a corporation that files its own tax return.

    43. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      In other words, you got fired and the government shut down had nothing to do with it

      I don't know about Creimer's particular case, but one of the problems with the shutdown was that a lot of government contractors didn't get paid for quite a long time. If the company didn't have enough liquid cash to keep paying employees, they most likely had to fire some until they got paid the money that they were owed. For companies whose main customer is the government, then that's a possible explanation.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    44. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would a person with more than minimal savings declare bankruptcy and have credit card debt? It doesn't make sense.

      For one thing, the bankruptcy court would just tell you "pay off your debs with all the money you have in the bank."

    45. Re:Must really be a slow news day... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Yes and when you suddenly need that cash in savings, you won't have it. You'll run up against a wall and need to somehow capitalize.

      I've kept loans because I wanted cash on hand. I cleared a loan (at 6% APR) at the end of last year, and then had a sudden expense that drained my remaining savings and required $3,500 in cash run as a cash advance at 20% APR off a credit card. It wasn't a good financial situation.

      I've been paying about $70/month in interest because I rebuilt my savings account to only $3,000 and then started cutting into the cash advance and another high-balance card. Originally I was at $120/month. I've also had savings up as far as $4,000, but knocked it down to $2,000 recently, and am now sitting at $3,000.

      I have extra money diverted toward my mortgage which, at 2.785%, is drawing around $130/month in interest. I had a car blow an engine in March and elected for a $12,000 Chevy Volt instead of a $6,000 engine for an old Mazda 3--for which I needed cash on hand, and again took a cash advance. I had squeezed my finances as-is because I spent $2,000 plus another $1,000 in driving courses and armor getting a motorcycle the prior month as an alternate form of transportation so I could avoid driving that car as much, in an attempt to delay a large replacement expense; too late there. If it hadn't blown for another month, I'd actually have been in a good financial position.

      I have half a dozen layers of contingencies. One year I put $18,000 into my 401(k) so that I have a loan source with no risk to my credit and a scaling tax risk (you pay taxes plus 10% penalty on the remaining loan balance if you default; the total loss is the 10%). it's sitting at $32,000 now, and I can get $16k out of that in a week. My first line of defense is my emergency fund (cash), followed by credit cards that I keep empty.

      I'd have kept the cards and the pile of cash, too. I'm more-flexible and more-agile that way. Cremier is kind of a raging liberal with a poor grasp of economics, but his grasp of personal finances is superior to yours.

    46. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      For one thing, the bankruptcy court would just tell you "pay off your debs with all the money you have in the bank."

      Except that I didn't have any cash in the bank. The assets that I had in my brokerage, business and retirement accounts fell 50% because of the Great Recession. The value of those assets were significantly less than what I owed and weren't worth the trouble for the trustee to liquidate. All my debts were wiped in Chapter Seven. Once the economy turned around, those assets regained their value.

    47. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The assets that I had in my brokerage, business and retirement accounts fell 50% because of the Great Recession.

      Then you chose some PISS POOR asset allocations. The average loss for retirement accounts in 2008, by total assets under management:

      50-100k: -15%
      100-200k: -21%
      200k+: -25%

      (Source)

      If you lost 50%, you were in such ridiculously risky investments that you should seek competent professional help from a qualified investment advisor, and stop trying to manage ANY of your investments yourself.

      The value of those assets were significantly less than what I owed and weren't worth the trouble for the trustee to liquidate.

      Which means that they didn't exist, or had zero value. The only thing exempt in a bankruptcy is your retirement accounts. Cash, bank accounts, stocks, and other savings are typically non-exempt - if the trustee abandoned them, then they were of negligible value. Which means that, even at 2x their value, they weren't significant. Which means that your other assets are virtually non-existent.

      Once the economy turned around, those assets regained their value.

      And you commenced building credit card debt again. So, gg, creimer - you can declare bankruptcy again 8 years after your previous declaration. Maybe then you can blame Trump and his "damn wall" for that one, rather than your own poor decisions and financial choices.

    48. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      If you lost 50%, you were in such ridiculously risky investments that you should seek competent professional help from a qualified investment advisor, and stop trying to manage ANY of your investments yourself.

      Funny how a stock index can slide 50% downward when the stock market is down 50% and then slide 50% upward when the stock market is up 50%. People who sold their stocks at the bottom got screwed. Those who didn't are doing fine now.

      So, gg, creimer - you can declare bankruptcy again 8 years after your previous declaration.

      Why? I'll be out of debt in three years, if not sooner.

      Maybe then you can blame Trump and his "damn wall" for that one, rather than your own poor decisions and financial choices.

      My stock portfolio is now concentrated in dividend-paying stocks and the dividends are reinvested to buy more shares. Since so many of my stocks are trading at historic lows, they're largely immune to the ups and downs of the general stock market and whatever tweet fart made by Trump.

    49. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny how a stock index can slide 50% downward when the stock market is down 50% and then slide 50% upward when the stock market is up 50%. People who sold their stocks at the bottom got screwed. Those who didn't are doing fine now.

      None of which addresses anything I wrote. So thanks for reminding us that you lack reading comprehension.

      Why? I'll be out of debt in three years, if not sooner.

      No, you won't. You'll slide your credit card debt into a debt consolidation loan, and then commence using your credit card again because, "Hey, free money!" This is why debt consolidation and high interest credit cards are such a dangerous trap for people who aren't very smart. They lack the discipline to pay off their debts and just continue to spend whenever they're not maxed out.

      My stock portfolio is now concentrated in dividend-paying stocks and the dividends are reinvested to buy more shares. Since so many of my stocks are trading at historic lows, they're largely immune to the ups and downs of the general stock market and whatever tweet fart made by Trump.

      Those are called blue chips - they're not "immune to the ups and downs," but they have a history of being solid performers in their industries and being able to operate profitably in good and bad market environments. Of course, blue chips tend to underperform the stock market in general, and picking which individual stocks are going to perform is a difficult task even for professional money managers, so again - you'll probably end up losing your shirt because you're not capable of judging corporate balance sheets, and think that a 30 cent dividend is a good enough return to justify owning the stock. Again, you should find some professional guidance, because you're too fucking stupid to understand basic financial practices.

    50. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you were heavily in debt to buy these stocks? And then when you declared bankruptcy, they didn't tell you to sell the stocks?

      Your lies don't really make any sense. It's not like debt is specifically tagged to that one stock. You own stock, and totally separately, you possess debt. If you ask for government protection from debt collection, the bankruptcy court will force you to sell most of your assets/empty your investment accounts to settle what debt you can - and definitely sell any non-IRA stock. They wouldn't say "well, it's down, and you borrowed heavily to buy this stock, so just keep the stock."

    51. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      They lack the discipline to pay off their debts and just continue to spend whenever they're not maxed out.

      Never mind that I paid off my 24-month loan in 16 months.

      Again, you should find some professional guidance, because you're too fucking stupid to understand basic financial practices.

      I doubt I'll be able to turn $6K into $30K again like I did when I bought stocks all the way down in the dot com bust.

    52. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      So you were heavily in debt to buy these stocks?

      Nope. Not sure where you got the idea that I used debt to buy stocks. That's stupid.

    53. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is it stupid? It's called "leverage", you know, like when you buy a house?

    54. Re: Must really be a slow news day... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Talk about stupid.
      https://tinyurl.com/ya7u8n5s

  16. Please Stop. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please Stop.

  17. Debit already does this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have the debit card and have been earning cash back for years... I also have a boner.

  18. Debit by vanyel · · Score: 1

    Been doing that for nearly 20 years with my Paypal debit card. Has the advantage that it sends me email every time it gets used too.

    1. Re:Debit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, 20 years. Too bad your full of shit.

  19. My first thought by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's precisely my first thought when reading the summary. Sort of like how the bank only makes mistakes in its favor, PayPal does the same except more insidious.

  20. I'm almost interested by Presence+Eternal · · Score: 2

    If you use a 2% card in the long haul, that's likely going to pay for an entire year of your life, just by selecting said form of payment.

    Yes, you can argue about how it gets passed on the stores and thus the consumers till you're blue in the face, but none of the places I shop at offer cash discounts, even though they're allowed to, so it's strictly a disadvantage to not do this.

    Thing is, I'm really unsure about this offering. If it excludes paypal purchases from the 2% back, then it'd seem to make little sense, since you can otherwise just use an existing 2% back card with paypal.

    1. Re:I'm almost interested by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      but none of the places I shop at offer cash discounts, even though they're allowed to, so it's strictly a disadvantage to not do this.

      The *one* place that I've ever seen routinely give cash discounts is gas stations. (What are those? Only luddites who drive gas cars use those..)

      But at least back when I was routinely buying gas, if you INCLUDED the cash back portion, at the cheapest places, it made up the cash discount the vast majority of the time (and was e.g. just as cheap as Arco, which doesn't take credit cards at all).

    2. Re:I'm almost interested by david_thornley · · Score: 2

      That would require physically going into the building and waiting in line and talking to a real human - sometimes twice, as there are places that have had too many drive-offs and require payment in advance, then if you don't use all the money you need change. For what a gas discount would be on gas, I don't consider it worth it.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    3. Re:I'm almost interested by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      The places I used to go to (have an electric car now), you just paid at the pump with the card.

  21. Trust in PayPal? by IMightB · · Score: 1

    I would not trust PayPal for anything important. I have an account with them, but it was only to pay for one thing online, that only accepted paypal. once they started accepting real CC's, I switched to using that. I have not logged into my PP account for years.

  22. Mechants should demand cut in fees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems to me this is proof that the merchant fees should be cut by 2% of the purchase price. That is a 40% cut in the fee.

    Seems pretty criminal that the purchase processing agents are able to get away with more than a 40% clear profit margin on pretty much every transaction.

  23. FUCK THIS MARKETING SPAM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stop posting slashvertisements. This is not news for nerds, and it's not news that matters.

  24. My cautionary tale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    10 or so years ago PayPal offered something similar. You got 1% back or some such. There were few if any CC companies offering any cash back in those days (that I knew of).

    I signed up, bought some stuff, everything worked fine. Then I bought some software from a company in Europe and used my PP card to pay.

    PP locked the card for suspected fraud.

    To unlock it I had to give them a notarized copy of my Drivers License, SSN card and proof of residence. I did none of the above.

    Now, contrast that to my Citibank card. I buy a game from g2a.com in Poland. Citibank blocks it as a suspicious charge. I call them, tell them it's cool, 5 minutes later I'm able to make my purchase.

    Oh, and Citibank has a 2% cash back card. Which comes with great customer service as a side benefit. Something you won't get from PayPal.

    1. Re:My cautionary tale by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      Now, contrast that to my Citibank card. I buy a game from g2a.com in Poland. Citibank blocks it as a suspicious charge. I call them, tell them it's cool, 5 minutes later I'm able to make my purchase.

      Sounds annoying. When my card gets checked for fraud, it's either:

      1) 3D verification screen that asks me to enter a code SMSed to me, which doesn't cancel/fail the transaction.
      2) If 3D option isn't available, I receive a text message with a code to send back if I am happy to authorize further attempts at transactions with that vendor.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  25. Re:Do they still randomly confiscate your accounts by nospam007 · · Score: 0

    "Do they still randomly confiscate contents of your accounts? "

    OMG that old crap. They have over 150 million customers, more than the next 5 worldwide banks combined and you still can't forgive the handful of locking accounts for security reasons when people bought things at home and the next day in their vacation 1000 miles away?
    Get a grip man.
    It was never random.
    Goggle locked my account when I used a fucking VPN without leaving my house.

  26. skip it. Seriously by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Someday, one of these tech companies will get smart and offer 7-10% interest on a card for those who are good risk.
    And when a good tech company does it, they will make millions off it.
    BUT, paypay is doing the SAME BS as other companies. High interest on all with some treats for the idiots.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:skip it. Seriously by kamapuaa · · Score: 1

      Credit card industry is already super-competitive. If this was ever going to happen, so marginal bank or Discover card would already be doing it.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    2. Re:skip it. Seriously by Gussington · · Score: 1

      Someday, one of these tech companies will get smart and offer 7-10% interest on a card for those who are good risk.

      Those of us who are good risk generally pay 0% interest. There is nothing tech savvy about this market.

    3. Re:skip it. Seriously by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      Someday, one of these tech companies will get smart and offer 7-10% interest on a card for those who are good risk.

      Those of us who are good risk generally pay 0% interest. There is nothing tech savvy about this market.

      Exactly this. You are a good risk if you do not need to borrow money. If you don't need to borrow money you can pay off your credit card bills in full. Zero interest is paid.

      Anyone who is paying a 10% fee to bankers for everything they buy is already a loser if they need to, and a fool if they don't.

  27. ad by cigawoot · · Score: 1

    Are you sure this was posted correctly? Really looks like an ad.

    1. Re:ad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems like a blatant ad. 2% cash back is common in the credit card industry.

  28. another by buddyglass · · Score: 3, Informative

    CitiBank has one of these as well. You get 1% at the time of purchase and 1% when you pay down your balance:

    https://www.citi.com/credit-cards/credit-card-details/citi.action?ID=citi-double-cash-credit-card

    1. Re:another by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Getting x5-8% cashback over in Malaysia here. (The 10% cashbacks are very limited, up to about 1000 spend only which is like 3 grocery trips)
      https://ringgitplus.com/en/credit-card/cashback/

      Singapore has some really funky ones too: (like 20% Cashback on Uber Rides Globally WTF)
      http://www.moneysmart.sg/credit-cards/cash-back

  29. Re: Do they still randomly confiscate your account by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 3, Informative

    Those of us that have first hand experience with PayPal's bullshit practices don't need to " get a grip ", we KNOW what PayPal does.

    Which is why we refuse to use it.

    One day you'll wake up to an email claiming your accounts have been frozen for ' security reasons ' and you'll begin the game of how to regain access to them.

    Assuming you can. I gave up after two years and just wrote the account off as a loss.

    Absolutely will not give them another dime by any means.

    Utilize their unregulated services at your own peril, but never claim you weren't warned.

  30. CapitalOne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I've had a 2% cash back, zero fee credit card from CapitalOne for about 4 years now.

  31. Here's something fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I utilized PayPal credit to help offset some educational expenses, but ended up maxing out the credit account and haven't been able to pay any of back it yet. Somehow, I still have really good credit according to my bank. I wonder what happened.

  32. Push other Cards to 2% by crow · · Score: 2

    With any luck, this will get enough attention to push other cards to 2% on all purchases. Many will do up to 5% on purchases of selected types (typically gas and restaurants), but are 1% in general. Perhaps this will push them to 2%? I sure hope so!

    Remember, credit cards used to give you nothing. Then there were air miles cards and Discover offered cash, which eventually led to other cards also giving cash. So despite all of them essentially using the same back end (Visa/MasterCard), there's a lot of competition between card issuers, so I'm optimistic.

    1. Re:Push other Cards to 2% by pots · · Score: 1

      My guess: this is a company which has finally gotten around to paying customers for their private data, instead of just taking it and giving nothing in return. Paypal is still not a bank, remember, so they don't have the same limits on data monetization that banks do.

      Another possibility is that they screwing the merchants for the extra money. Discover similarly offers relatively high cash back, but charges merchants higher fees to cover it. Since this is apparently a Mastercard I don't know how that would be implemented, but it seems like another possibility.

  33. Re:Do they still randomly confiscate your accounts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've used PayPal for 15 years now without a single problem. Never know any of my friends to have an issue either.

  34. Fuck whoever posted this as news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is an ad and it's sad that a mod will have the decency to remove this reply but allow shit like this to make it onto Slashdot.

  35. Cashback - deceptive language. by jandersen · · Score: 1

    This socalled cashback is nothing more than a discount on purchases when you buy stuff, and 2% is $2 in every $100 - when has that ever mattered to a real person? And actually, why would anybody use a credit card in an age where debit cards are available - or am I missing something? I have a debit card with my bank account, and I know from experience that it works in shops and cash machines all over Europe, in the US and in China. I would have to pay an annual or monthly fee for having a credit card at all, and in many cases there is a transaction fee as well; none of which I pay for a debit card. Credit cards are simply an expensive way of getting into debt.

    1. Re:Cashback - deceptive language. by Ash-Fox · · Score: 2

      This socalled cashback is nothing more than a discount on purchases when you buy stuff, and 2% is $2 in every $100 - when has that ever mattered to a real person?

      Matters to a lot of consultants and contractors that travel. But in my experience, you're better off having a point card for something like Hilton Honors because you can get more options out of the points earned rather than cash back.

      And actually, why would anybody use a credit card in an age where debit cards are available

      Each transaction is insured. Debit card transactions aren't, if transactions can't be reversed, you're out of luck, it's gone. If you book certain things like holiday packages and something goes wrong during it, you get a full refund on the holiday, paid by the card issuer, who may choose to dispute the package later with the provider.

      Additionally, the exchange rates on Mastercard and Visa are preferential to what your bank would normally choose as an exchange rate for a debit card (even if you have visa debit card or mastercard debit card - these rates are no longer available).

      Quite often banks like to tack some nasty exchange rate fees for non-local currencies when you use a debit card. Mastercard and Visa also prefer to use the lower exchange rates because they want to generate more transactions and this is one of the ways they do so.

      Through the use of credit cards and paying them off on a regular basis, you can build up your credit rating which in turn allows you to get larger mortgages. If all you do is end up paying the minimum payments per month, your credit rating does not lower from this.

      I would have to pay an annual or monthly fee for having a credit card at all

      That sounds like a charge card, not a credit card. Charge cards work differently.

      Credit cards are simply an expensive way of getting into debt.

      My credit cards cost me nothing on top (unless I choose not to pay them off in full, but I live within my means) and I end up with more rewards and protections using them using others. I don't pay more for using a credit card either in transactions.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    2. Re:Cashback - deceptive language. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I had credit cards with annual fees once. I called up on some cards, and got the fee removed, and the others I cancelled.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  36. Re:Do they still randomly confiscate your accounts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good for you. You want a fucking merit badge?

  37. I personally don't. by HBI · · Score: 1

    If you have some kind of emotional attachment, perhaps you would.

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.