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Bitcoin Price Falls Again On Reports that China is Shutting Down Local Exchanges (cnbc.com)
China's clampdown on cryptocurrencies has reportedly taken a new direction -- to close down local bitcoin exchanges. From a report: Initial reports from Chinese media that the government plans to close down domestic cryptocurrency exchanges have seen the virtual coin shed more than $100 since Friday. Bloomberg and the Wall Street Journal also reported Monday that that the country is planning to shut down digital currency exchanges. Bitcoin sunk to a low of $4,241 in late trading in the U.K. Friday, and reached a low of $4,108 on Monday, according to Coindesk data. It climbed to a record high of $5,000 dollars a little over a week ago, and has shot up by nearly 350 percent since the start of the year. The latest reported crackdown follows a decision by Chinese regulators -- including the People's Bank of China (PBOC) -- to ban initial coin offerings (ICOs). ICOs are a means of raising funds by selling off new digital tokens. A crackdown on ICOs would not affect the original cryptocurrency directly, but bitcoin still dropped more than $1,000 over a period of three days. China's latest move to shut down local exchanges would mark a new direction for the country in its efforts to regulate the market.
Please, someone, verify the math... how did Bitcoin lost more than $1000 and still be above $4000 when the all time high was $5000.
I'm suprised nobody has started arbitrating between different BC exchanges. With the current volatility the opportunities are massive. I guess you can't really short-sell but with a minimal investment you could make a mint!
sell while they are worth anything at all children...
Because the $5k was like 2 weeks ago. Then it dropped to $4000, came back up to $4500, dropped again. It seesaws back and forth. The whole "$100 drop" is a complete non-issue in the grand scheme of things when this "currency" regularly goes up or down $200 in a day for seemingly no reason, and drops $500 in a day when something newsworthy actually happens.
room to slow for sure... cease fire stand down.. deleting the crown royal psycho wmd on credit cabals should upend our digits anyway? that's the spirit.. sing along.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-kA3UtBj4M .. hanging on to our hemispheres.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvhgVxNCP1c ... spiritless greed/fear/ego based digitarians at odds with all of creation now?
Bitcoin price is at a three week low!
This is Chinese officials manipulating Bitcoin's exchange rate nigh before binge-buying as much as they can with their huge dollar reserves (at the same time dumping some of that).
At the same time, as someone said here, they're mining like crazy (every graphics card needs a burn-in test, right?)
Muhahaha...
Yes, it did drop to below $4100, but it has now rebounded to nearly $4300. Yes it's dropped some compared to Friday, but it's about where it was last Tuesday. Whaddayaknow, it goes up, and it goes down. Look at the 30 day chart, and the trend looks like a fairly steady rise from about $4000 to $4250. Much as journalists would like the story to be "Oh noes, the bitcoin is crashing!", it doesn't really stack up (yet).
Of course, reaching a peak value at a "significant" number like $5000 is a signal for a lot of people to sell, which drives down prices, and the real surprise is that that combined with the Chinese drama hasn't had an even more dramatic effect, but all it seems to have done is drive a relatively small correction in value back down to the underlying trend.
I think the drop is people over-thinking it. With no local exchanged, that just means people in China have more incentive to keep transactions on bitcoin, and not pull out to local currency. I suspect it will result in more demand and therefore higher prices.
I also suspect that with the volatility, there will be a bitcoin futures market at some point.
Hurray bitcoin is dead once and for all. Thank you China!!
I'm a buyer at these fire sale prices.
... You can shit on some of the people some of the time, you can shit on some of the people all of the time and you can shit on all of the people some of the time but you can never shit on all the people all of the time. So you should settle on shitting on most of the people most of the time, so that you can never run out of time or shit. Wise words indeed. And the we would take turns shitting on my little brothers.
China subsidizes electricity and hardware for bitcoin processing.
Ha. well that will be another interesting aspect of bitcoin--- it will arbitrage electric power subsidies out of existence.
Please correct me if I'm wrong because I might be but my educated guess about bitcoin is that there's no price bubble at all. My reason for stating this rests on the assumption that the price of mining a coin is exactly equal to the electricity and hardware costs plus a thin markup (thin-ness dictated by competition which is intense). By price here I mean the cost of buying a coin plus the pre-rated cost of a typical shared transaction fee on the coin for using it. (that is to say, the amount of money the miner gets).
So if that's right then the typical cost of mining a coin is about $4000.
Am I right?
Now lets drill down on this a little. The cost of mining is not identical for all miners.
imagine a histogram of miners with the X-axis being their cost of mining, removing the hardware cost from the cost of mining (a sunk cost) and just look at the marginal cost of electicity. this is different for different miners.
If you then you draw a vertical line at the current price then the area to the left is miners who are making money. The ones to the right are miners who either are not mining (because they lose money) or who mining because even though it's a loss they can get some cash flow to pay off debts,
You can draw a second histogram which includes the cost of the hardware. In this case the ones to the left are all the people who could profit by entering the mining industry and the ones to the right are the ones who should not purchase hardware because it would be a loss from the start.
One of the factors not included here is the re-sale cost of used hardware. That's a tricky thing to estimate since the future price and difficulty of mining are not known when you initially buy the hardware.
What determines the cost of electricity? Well if you can use the waste heat then the cost is free. And if your country subsidises electrictiy then for you, not your country, it's also cheap. And if you have electricity that would go to waste otherwise then it's also free.
What electricity goes to waste? Well renewables that need to be stored in batteries for one. instead of storing it in a battery just use it to mine. They buy back the power later when you need it. Much cheaper than buying batteries.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Well, it sank to $3940 during the 4th but finished the day a little over $4000, then reached $4600 over the next few days before falling to $4100 yesterday. Don't blink. So somewhere in there it lost $1000 although it gained half of it back along the way.
Bitcoin was never at 5000. It was some after-market article by dumbass "reporters" where the ASKING price was 5000 on some low-volume exchange(s). I don't think any trades actually happened at that price and the normal actual real trading prices at the time were in the $4300 range.
It went down 200$ on the day my cat Bobby Coin died.
who cares. 1849.
I sold some at 5006. But high was 5015.
There is no math to be concerned about with this fake money. I have a bunch of dirt in my back yard. It's special, it's different than your dirt and more valuable because I say so. I'm selling it for $1000/grain of dirt. Please contact me if you would like to invest in this new currency because once it's sold out it's gone there will be nothing left and your grains will only increase in value. That is unless my neighbors start making their own dirt exchanges and selling it, then I guess the value of my dirt will turn to shit.
Anyone and everyone "investing" in any type of digital (fake, nonexistent, not linked to anything tangible) currency is just plain fucking stupid. At least dirt is real. Bitcoin is just 1s and 0s and linked to nothing of value.
There are many people who do Bitcoin arbitrage. Software for doing so is readily available. Exchange fees and the time required to settle transactions limit the profitability and increase the risk. You don't know for sure if your transaction will settle until days later. Recently, there were 200,000 transactions awaiting settlement.
There is also risk from exchange issues, and not just frauds and hacks. An FDIC-insured bank has to prove it has sufficient assets to cover liabilities, both liquid and long term. With no such regulation of Bitcoin exchanges, it's natural for exchanges to try to increase profits by pushing the limits on liabilities vs actual cash available. An honest but eager exchange owner can easily accidentally create a situation in which they aren't able to make promised pay outs.
"Anyone and everyone "investing" in any type of digital (fake, nonexistent, not linked to anything tangible) currency is just plain fucking stupid. At least dirt is real. Bitcoin is just 1s and 0s and linked to nothing of value."
Odd that my ROI with this fake money was 10 fold in real $$. Also, you do realise that all fiat currency isn't based on anything tangible. While US$ used to be based on gold, that hasn't been the case for decades. That dollar in your wallet is only worth the value that society gives it.
Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
>Bitcoin has value mostly as the original and primary blockchain currency.
Indeed. Even if one were to assume that crypto-currency would be around forever, that doesn't imply the same for Bitcoin. Bitcoin's value, compared to other crypto-currency, is basically because it's popular. In a way, it's popular because it's popular. Much like the leading social network. Plenty of sites offer features similar to Facebook, but people use Facebook because that's what their friends use. Everybody is on Facebook because everybody is on Facebook. But many of us remember when Myspace was the one everybody used. Just because Myspace was dominant didn't mean it would remain dominant, or even relevant. It was replaced by Facebook, and the fall of Myspace was pretty rapid. Similarly, Bitcoin could be replaced by Facecoin at any time.
Even with this small drop, Bitcoin is still at about twice the value it was two months ago. This drop is a tiny blip on the radar in the context of its growth in recent months. this would be like writing a story about someone's heart stopping because their pulse lowered from 105 to 100 beats-per-minute.
From this perspective, all money except precious metal is fake.
NO SIG
All cash is "fake, nonexistent, not linked to anything tangible".
NO SIG
Please, someone, verify the math... how did Bitcoin lost more than $1000 and still be above $4000 when the all time high was $5000.
By asking that question you have shown you clearly don't have what it takes to be an investment banker.
Just another VR sort of business model. Nothing really tangible to back up its incredibly inflated value which only means short traders are benefiting and when their done so will Bitcoin.
The thing of value isn't the coins, it's the blockchain and the processes around it. Other blockchains have been built but the stability of one that's deeply rooted like the Bitcoin BC is valuable. No saying BC is "worth" what it's going for, but it's not backed by nothing either.
It works like this...
Say I have 5000 tulips, and I lose over 1000 tulips, then I would have at least 4100 tulips.
China is just the first, more will come.
Stay AWAY from ALL Crypto currencies; they only serve to enslave you to a central bank, and many of us will never buy nor sell nor accept Crypto currencies for any reason.
Any corporation or government entity attempting to force Crypto currencies on people will be viewed by many as an enemy of freedom and will likely come under some sort of military attack.
I hope people will remain civilized, but history has shown it doesn't usually happen that way.
In major currencies, cash is linked to gold held by the central bank (e.g. Bank of England) or similar.
In that sense, cash is really a promissory note of future settlement, exchangeable for gold. If gold is tangible, then cash is linked to something tangible.
Bitcoin, on the other hand, is not. It's just linked to a server somewhere, run
by a bunch of ransoms.
Basically, after some of us pointed out that the bitcoin exchanges were enabling Russia and North Korea to delay climate change action, and China had decided to force all new vehicles to become electric, they had to do something.
You can still exchange bitcoin legally, but only in person.
Consequences are like that. China does what it's going to do.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
In major currencies, cash is linked to gold held by the central bank (e.g. Bank of England) or similar.
That depends. Which year do you believe it is currently?
it's in my head
Price changes like this are not what you want in a medium of exchange, but they are exactly what you want in a pump-and-dump stock.
You gold standard fools are a hoot. No wonder you like bitcoin.
how did Bitcoin lost more than $1000 and still be above $4000 when the all time high was $5000.
Bitcoin is so unstable and changes so fast, that by the time you finish your subtraction the numbers doesn't mean anything anymore.
And I'm only half joking.
Seriouly, do we *Really* need a new /. article each time the exchange value of BTC jolts ?
At that pace we could actually use the exchange rate as an entropy source for random number generators.
Stick to the bitcoin *protocol* as a way to make decentralized transactions only, and keep using *fiat* for your long-term storage needs.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Currency is useful as a means of decoupling barter from direct person-to-person exchange. I don't have to go to a dairy farmer, a butcher, a corn farmer, a winery, and the newspaper printer - I can go to the local Von's and buy everything there. I give them paper to procure goods; they give some of that paper to others for goods, and so on. Currency is great because it's universally accepted at a recognized value.
Bitcoin? Where the price can bump 20% in a matter of a few days (and plunge by that too) is terrible, because that same dairy farmer couldn't quote a price and be relatively certain the quote can last for more than a few hours. Stability is crucial - and having a currency that is recognized by Governments as legal tender (meaning - it can be legally used to pay off debts and contracts) is crucial. Bitcoin is neither stable nor legal tender. Meaning - great for speculation, but pretty poor for basing an economy upon.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Stability of Bitcoin? I can't see where it was stable...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
We don't believe you, you need more people - jay z
Stability of the blockchain ledger that underpins bitcoin. It's a well established blockchain with a large number of resources devoted to running the consensus algorithm, and thus more difficult to subvert than a freshly minted blockchain. That has utility and utility is value.
gold is just "special dirt"
Currency is really just IOU's written on little pieces of paper most of which are printed with a fancy font by governments. they may or may not be backed by something tangible like gold, that part really isn't important. what is important is whether the person you want to barter with recognizes it and is willing to exchange their own goods or services for it.
Gold has not inherent value either, it only has value because other people think it does much like any other currency and are willing to trade their own goods or services for it.
I purchased my first Bitcoins about a week ago, and I'm known to have that kind of effect.
I can also stop a cashier lineup just by standing in it.
They're not stupid. They're rich. They're simply leeches, draining money out of the economy while contributing no productivity whatsoever, not even as much use as the banking and stock leeches (who at least supply money to productive people).
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China bubble will pop soon.
It was a long time ago cash was linked to gold..
They're not stupid. They're rich. They're simply leeches, draining money out of the economy while contributing no productivity whatsoever, not even as much use as the banking and stock leeches (who at least supply money to productive people).
How are cryptocurrency investors "draining money out of the economy"? If anything, they're taking their economic activity away from the fiat money system, leaving more dollars for everyone else.
They're not sucking blood out of the system; they're just done with propping it up.
There are many people who do Bitcoin arbitrage. Software for doing so is readily available. Exchange fees and the time required to settle transactions limit the profitability and increase the risk. You don't know for sure if your transaction will settle until days later. Recently, there were 200,000 transactions awaiting settlement.
There is also risk from exchange issues, and not just frauds and hacks. An FDIC-insured bank has to prove it has sufficient assets to cover liabilities, both liquid and long term. With no such regulation of Bitcoin exchanges, it's natural for exchanges to try to increase profits by pushing the limits on liabilities vs actual cash available. An honest but eager exchange owner can easily accidentally create a situation in which they aren't able to make promised pay outs.
No major bank in the world today has sufficient assets to cover its liabilities. If everyone cleared out their deposit accounts at once the bank would need to borrow against it's long-term investments to make everyone whole.
Bitcoin exchanges today do a better job of this. Given that so many bitcoin exchanges have failed in the past, some customers, particularly large volume customers, demand a certain level of transparency and security. This demand was more prevalent following the collapse of Mt.Gox but it has been diluted with the influx of new users who are not used to the greater responsibility the free market burdens them with.
I agree we can expect more failures, and some of them will be spectacular.
China does this all the time, what should have happened is anything US and UK exchange related should have locked ALL CHINESE accounts when china governement decided to do this again. There is absolutely NO WAY the Chinese Government is going to ban or deregulate bitcoin. the amount of tax Dollars China wreaks in between the sales on the Bitcoin mining equipment combined with the Bitcoin mining they do themselves, they serve to lose to much money. They dumped what they bought at lower prices and cashed out their Bitcoin mining to take their early 4th qtr profits. Give it 6 months to a year and they will be back saying they have taken the hold off Bitcoin regulations. The last time they did this ironically they did a crowd funding sort of thing to get funding for Alibaba, Alibaba yes the biggest scvam shopping marketplace on the internet, where the Chinese people violate multiple laws and trade practices and sell nmmost of the mining equipment aftermarket. They needede funds so they banned Bitcoin made the investors sell their bitcoin and invest in Alibaba. then about 6 months to a year later after the funding and the business was above water where they wanted it they lifted the ban. This is not the first time, and will not be the last. What is nice to see is they dont have the hold on the market they thought they did. a loss of 1500 dollars only is not a bad loss for a market the size of Bitcoin. Now if it can hold above 3000 for the next year when they come back (like they always do) and lift the regulations AGAIN, it will go up over 5K.
its down to 3300 from almost 4500