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Red Cross Asks For 50 Ham Radio Operators To Fly To Puerto Rico (arrl.org)

Bruce Perens writes: The red cross has asked for 50 ham radio operators to fly to Puerto Rico and be deployed there for up to three weeks. This is unprecedented in the 75-year cooperation between Red Cross and ARRL, the national organization of ham radio operators for the U.S. The operators will relay health-and-welfare messages and provide communications links where those are missing and are essential to rescue and recovery. With much infrastructure destroyed, short-wave radio is a critical means of communicating from Puerto Rico to the Mainland at this time.

69 of 121 comments (clear)

  1. Nobody believed me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When I said ham radio was still important because cell phones don't work in disasters where infrastructure is no longer in place. Been a ham since college in 1999.

    1. Re:Nobody believed me by geekmux · · Score: 2

      The only catch I see here is - don't other parts of that area also need support?

      Communications is rather vital to coordinate and execute many other critical projects related to health, infrastructure, etc.

    2. Re:Nobody believed me by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      What about packet radio? You can cover more messages with fewer people.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:Nobody believed me by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      What about packet radio? You can cover more messages with fewer people.

      If it is like this, then no because it requires Internet...

    4. Re:Nobody believed me by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      When I said ham radio was still important

      That's not what you said. What you said was: "Trump says, "Wait, their all black & spanish? And that's the end of that."

      Maybe if you had an account and put a name to what you said you could provide some citation that "Nobody believed you" because quite frankly your view has a lot of support on Slashdot.

    5. Re:Nobody believed me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Packet radio does not require internet, but it does require some electronics, and an input method (keyboard), all of which adds complexity. (My handheld radio can run for 48 hours on battery, and I can easily carry several batteries for it (it's like 6 AA batteries in a case) my laptop runs for maybe 10 hours, and each additional battery would be substantial amounts of weight to carry, computers are less useful in a disaster than the straight up voice communication.)

      Packet radio also suffers from some range issues, at the same power levels with the same antenna packet can be clearly copied from about half the distance as voice, (at least in the bands where packet is most commonly use at a reasonable baud rate, some packets make it around the world on half a watt, but it takes 5 minutes to send a dozen characters...)

      If I had to guess packet is probably not going to be the main form of communication, though it will probably be leveraged for things like APRS for locational awareness and tracking of events on the island during the recovery. APRS is available on a number of radios, and the dedicated electronics draw little power compared to a general purpose computer, and is a good design for distributed communication (through implementation of repeater functionality on handheld and mobile radios is lacking...)
      Might also be used for sending back "I'm ok" messages in bulk to the red cross on the mainland... just because those things can be taken down and broadcast in one or two bulk messages that way instead of having to be transcribed on the mainland.

    6. Re:Nobody believed me by msauve · · Score: 2

      You're also Anonymous Coward, the guy who posts goatse links and hurls racial epithets.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    7. Re:Nobody believed me by Deadstick · · Score: 1

      Ummm, that name predates packet radio by fifty or sixty years. It was founded on Morse.

    8. Re: Nobody believed me by kenh · · Score: 1

      What? We canâ(TM)t help Puerto Rico because we arenâ(TM)t also addressing every other impacted region simultaneously?

      --
      Ken
    9. Re: Nobody believed me by kenh · · Score: 1

      Think multiple three week rotations...

      --
      Ken
    10. Re:Nobody believed me by grumling · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yea, not really. 1200 baud packet is pretty bad for transmitting even basic information on a sustained basis. APRS use is sparse in most of the US, yet listening to 144.39 in any city shows that the channel is almost always saturated, even when there are a lot of high digipeaters and everyone is using the newer wideN-n path.

      In a traditional packet network where you connect to stations using 1 or more digis (connect N0XXX via K1YYY), the channel is quickly saturated with digipeating, which gets far worse when you have hidden node problems and other collisions.

      Mesh networks using modified 802.11x equipment will work better only because there's an automatic routing that takes place, but it will still suffer if there's a high node that becomes a bottleneck, and hidden nodes. At least it will be a little faster and have a decent T/R turn-around time though.

      The time to build these networks is before there's a disaster, then harden the nodes. Or at least identify locations and test ahead of time but keep the equipment out of harm's way until needed. And we hams who want high speed networks on VHF and UHF need to start using what we've got (56 Ksps with QAM and other modulation, OFDM carriers, etc) and then petition the FCC for more bandwidth after we've maxed out what we have.

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
    11. Re:Nobody believed me by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      I was interested in Ham Radio back in the US in the 70's. Unfortunately, back then, I don't know how it is now, in order to even get started, you needed to be able to type Morse, which, for some folks is a kinda sorta no go from a physical challenges standpoint.

      I took it as more as a social snub: if your have enough money to spend on equipment, you will get your license, otherwise, you don't belong in our exclusive golf club. Not surprisingly . . . a lot of doctors in my town had Ham licenses . . . but they could not Morse themselves out of a paper bag.

      So, sure . . . Ham operators could be useful in times of emergency. Of course, it might be a wee bit better if emergency services could use Ham tech themselves. Oh, but I forgot . . . it's an exclusive club.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    12. Re:Nobody believed me by AsylumWraith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The morse requirement is long since gone. Testing costs something like $15, (sorry, I haven't gone to a testing session for a while.) A Chinese handheld capable of 2m and 70cm costs under $50 on eBay.

      That's not what I call exclusivity.

    13. Re:Nobody believed me by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      But satellite phones do, and cell companies have options available for pop-up cell towers that use microwave beam, mesh radio or satellite backhaul and can be quickly deployed.

      The call for ham operators in Puerto Rico is an exception - that's why it's newsworthy. Twenty years ago this would have been done for everywhere the hurricane hit.

    14. Re:Nobody believed me by Pseudonym · · Score: 1
      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    15. Re:Nobody believed me by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Even 1200 bits per second is more than even several people can type at a sustained rate. A UUCP-like system could deliver more than one SMS message per second. But I admit that I've stopped watching the field in late 1990s so I assume there are better digital modes than the original packet radio for this purpose today. Plus, as you say, there's probably other options such as clever use of 802.11. My point was mostly about the benefits of automation.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    16. Re:Nobody believed me by geekmux · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not really

      Give up your cell phone for a week. See how insignificant it is for you to not have communications you've grown to rely on to organize your life and coordinate with your friends, family, and employer.

      Now multiply that impact by 3 million. In a disaster zone.

    17. Re:Nobody believed me by eclectro · · Score: 2

      I somewhat disagree* about putting networks in place before disaster, because the disaster can happen where your network is not. Amateur radio has always had a strong portable emphasis anyways.

      What is needed is a different methodology and different equipment if necessary. That's what hams do. They create what's needed to do more with less and be more effective as they create and use state of the art.

      That's what brought packet radio into being in the first place.

      *I do think that as time goes on emergency links will become increasingly important.

      --
      Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
    18. Re:Nobody believed me by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Even 1200 bits per second is more than even several people can type at a sustained rate. A UUCP-like system could deliver more than one SMS message per second.

      In fact, UUCP is still the right tool for this job, if you're using such a slow radio link, and especially if it is intermittent. Seems like it could also handle interplanetary communications with a new protocol or two, but that's another discussion.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    19. Re: Nobody believed me by rtb61 · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Obviously the US military is way too small to send radio operators with their equipment to help Americans living in Puerto Rico (they are citizens), perhaps you need to double the US military budget to 1.5 trillion or there about to be about to do it. The US has become an idiotic parody of itself, disaster capitalism, as for as the corporations are concerned, Puerto Rico must totally collapse so they can buy cents on the dollar, fix it and flip it, for billions in profit, to be wiped out by another global warming hurricane, they have already been bragging how this destruction helps generate profits and screw the people destroyed, they don't care one iota about that.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    20. Re:Nobody believed me by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I'm certainly not opposed to the idea of using ham operators; it's a proven technique; but what I found most surprising about the ARC calling for some is that it is happening in a context where satellite phones are (relatively) cheap; and work reasonably well; and the American Red Cross has had some rather disturbing reports out of the last few disasters of general incompetence and a more specific inability to turn their impressive fundraising capabilities into actually delivering what is needed where it is needed. They also got into a spat specifically with the ham radio people over their desire to do more intensive background checks(not just 'criminal record/should you be trusted near a bunch of displaced children' but credit reports, 'mode of living', etc. to which the ham response was "We volunteer to bring $$$ radio gear to your disaster zone; you think we'll be stealing your bottled water or something?"

      If the ARC were all about plucky and heroic volunteers making it work on a shoestring; calling in the hams would be totally in character(and, again, it is a perfectly viable strategy; they have technology that works and know how to use it); but these days they are more of a fundraising powerhouse, operated by a 'brand' crazed former AT&T executive, with some genuinely unfortunate losses in their ability to coordinate much more than a photo-op and some disillusionment among their traditionally motivated volunteers; which seems much more like a situation where you would just turn cash into satellite phones and call it a day.

    21. Re: Nobody believed me by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      That depends. If you put your landline infrastructure above ground in a hurricane zone then you get what you ask for. On the other hand put it in the ground then even when the winds are blowing at full force you won't loose your landline.

      Similar for things go for power too. Just because you can string it between some poles does not make it a good idea. If you live in an area where high winds are likely then stringing it between poles is as dumb as f$%^.

      Similarly if you live in a hurricane zone and you construct your house out of some timber nailed together, then the amount of sympathy you will get from me when it is blown away is a big fat zero.

      Basically the goal should be avoiding the need for repair rather than working out what is the easiest way to repair something.

    22. Re:Nobody believed me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's not packet radio, they're asking for operators with experience using WinLink which is an HF (long range 100's and 1000's of miles) email system. Remote stations on PR will connect via HF to 'base stations' around the world (in this case mostly US based stations) and send emails which can include very small (25kB) attachments.

      The WinLink system is completely volunteer run, designed and maintained and uses the PACTOR family of protocols (today PACTOR 2, 3 &4, along with Winmor a soundcard based solution).

      I use to be a part of the WinLink development team, and currently an ASM/ASEC for ARRL/ARES.

    23. Re: Nobody believed me by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Or, perhaps, there is more to social support than the military. Like FEMA, like the Red Cross, like hundreds of other organizations. Like amateur radio.

      The US military is sending assistance and they can do things that nobody else can do (the Navy hospital ship, for instance). There is no earthly reason that the military HAS to be the only group working a disaster.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    24. Re:Nobody believed me by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      The background check thing was the usual bureaucratic 'Oh it's easy, everybody does it' running into an old boys club with a long history and a lot of pride. It wasn't handled well on either side.

      What coordinated amateur radio groups offer that is different from a cell phone is a functional network with a command structure that is capable of working with large and disparate groups of people (Red Cross, local PD, military.) Just a bunch of people on individual cell phones is going to create a large spaghetti of information reminiscent of an early BASIC program. One change and squish - the whole plate is sliding off the wall never to return to the pre existing state.

      These people practice setting up and bring down the network. People have defined roles (even those cute vests with silly names on them).

      And no airtime fees.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    25. Re: Nobody believed me by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      The problem with 1200-baud packet is that the protocol is "all or nothing", with NO forward error correction. It just keeps blindly retransmitting after pseudorandom delays until a packet manages to get through error-free.

      As others have noted, packet has ALWAYS had major problems with scalability & dealing with congestion. It takes very little to saturate a packet radio link into unusability due to retransmissions & collisions.

      We already have enormously better protocols, but the prohibition against using encryption on ham bands seriously limits the ability of hams to build emergency adhoc internet backhaul (to places that DO have working internet connectivity) that others can seamlessly use directly.

      Puerto Rican hams HAVE put together some mesh networks over the past week, but they've generally done it in ways that don't require a ham license (ie, fixed point to point 802.11), because a mesh network operating legally within the constraints of FCC ham regulations would be mostly useless to the public for emergency internet access since they'd have to block https & anything else that involves encrypted communication & risk exposing the real internet credentials of people to anyone running WireShark.

  2. Re: Trump says, "Wait, their all black & spani by chill · · Score: 4, Informative

    The summary is slightly inaccurate. It is the American Red Cross that is coordinating this effort.

    --
    Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
  3. Thanks for the info. I am volunteering. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Hi from Adam KB2JPD FDNY*EMS

    Contacted the ARRL right away. I am a first responder from 9/11, EMT for 25 years, 23 years with FDNY, am Spanish speaking, and am a General class amatuer radio operator.
    Please have us in your thoughts and prayers so we can make several miarcles there in Puerto Rico. Those wanting more video and info from the island can look for my friend Nomar Vizcarrondo works for Univision, is a ham, and is getting internet video and news out of Puerto Rico. Much of the audio is in Spanish but the video is self-explanatory.

    1. Re:Thanks for the info. I am volunteering. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Best luck to you KB2JPD. Hope you can do some good while you're there!

      Don't forget to stand up and stretch one in a while if you're going to be sitting at the bit-flipper all day.

    2. Re:Thanks for the info. I am volunteering. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Good luck KB2JPD

      73 de VE2LRZ

    3. Re:Thanks for the info. I am volunteering. by mattr · · Score: 2

      Good luck and your efforts are much appreciated!!!! Stay safe and healthy.

    4. Re:Thanks for the info. I am volunteering. by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      Hi Adam KB2JPD FDNY*EMS Best of luck out there and come back safe

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

  4. Re:Trump says, "Wait, their all black & spanis by stealth_finger · · Score: 2, Informative

    And that's the end of that.

    Their all black and spanish what? Or did you mean they're?

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  5. So... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

    ..are you going to go, Bruce?

    1. Re:So... by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      WICEN could teach them a thing or two, mate.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
  6. Re:What a let down by Maritz · · Score: 1

    "we" didn't find out anything of the sort. You're just utterly incapable of nuanced thought.

    Get off slashdot and go send some fucking telegrams.

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  7. Just two words by LordHighExecutioner · · Score: 2
    1. Re: Just two words by kenh · · Score: 2

      At a cost of what per minute?

      Itâ(TM)s cheaper and easier to deploy hams in shelters, just adds one more mouth to feed, one more soul to find a cot at the shelter.

      --
      Ken
    2. Re:Just two words by thule · · Score: 2

      At the same time Irma was happening, the Earth was getting hit by a solar flare. It was the "perfect storm" in that we were experiencing a terrestrial storm and a solar flare at the same time. The solar flare impacts HF radio ( 30Mhz), GPS accuracy and satellite phones. VHF can still be useful, but long distance HF skip is iffy. Hams have some nice digital modes that can burst data. I would still rather have access to ham radios in a situation like that over sat phones. Search TamithaSkov on youtube for space weather reports and how the sun impacts radio.

    3. Re:Just two words by tquasar · · Score: 1

      Fema is providing every city and town with a satellite phone. http://www.univision.com/univi...

    4. Re: Just two words by jittles · · Score: 1

      I bet flying out HAMs into a disaster area is a lot cheaper than the minutes on a satellite phone, NOT!

      Except that they already have the planes flying TO Puerto Rico with aid on board. You cannot fill every single spot on an airplane with cargo. There will be room for humans to go and help distribute the aid. Even better if said human can help unload the plane and then stay behind to run a radio. Plus most of the communication that needs to occur will likely be between nodes on the island. People will want to send messages in and out to loved ones, of course, but there will need to be a lot of communication between people on the ground. The island is large enough and mountainous enough that you would not be able to do that as easily by handheld radio

    5. Re: Just two words by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      Satellite PHONES are cost-prohibitive to use.

      On the other hand, Ku-band satellite internet isn't all that hard for someone who knows how to aim the dish to set up, and is DIRT CHEAP by comparison.

      Ku band satellite is only expensive if it has to be "portable", in the sense of "drive around in a van & have it working in 5 minutes". If you set the bar a lot lower (3-4 hour setup time, dish mounted to pole in 5-gallon Home Depot bucket half-filled with concrete), it's really cheap.

  8. Re:Trump says, "Wait, their all black & spanis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
  9. Hate the Red Cross by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know this is second-hand and anecdotal, however, it's not the only time nor the last will I hear about the Red Cross behaving badly.

    In 1966, my dad was standing on a pier in San Francisco waiting, with thousands of other brave men, for the troop ships that would take them to fight in Vietnam. The ships were due to depart at about 0800. At about 0530, the Red Cross comes around selling coffee and donuts to the troops. My dad, an immigrant already, thought it weird and declined. Thirty minutes later, the Salvation Army comes around GIVING THEM AWAY FOR FREE to the troops. My dad never forgot that.

    I knew a lady personally who was sent a bill for blankets and bottled water after her area was flooded.

    Just recently in Houston, the Red Cross rejected pleas of help from people who really needed it.

    I will never help them for any reason. Were it the Salvation Army needing HAMs, I'd pay for my own ticket.

    1. Re:Hate the Red Cross by Nehmo · · Score: 1

      I Vit Cng. We think coffee for fat American Joe who shoot us chúng tôi ez bad xu.

      --
      (||) Nehmo (||)
    2. Re:Hate the Red Cross by kefalonia · · Score: 1

      Salvation Army? here you go:
      http://www.arrl.org/news/salva...

  10. Coverage by kenh · · Score: 1

    The American Red Cross is likely looking for round-the-clock operators to staff about a dozen facilities in two or three shift âdaysâ(TM) - to augment/supplement the hams already on staff.

    Iâ(TM)m sure some local hams are also assisting, but suspect most are busy trying to rebuild their lives.

    --
    Ken
  11. Re: Trump says, "Wait, their all black & spani by kenh · · Score: 1

    The American Red Cross, the organization putting out the request, is American - and what difference does it make where they come from?

    --
    Ken
  12. Re: Mesh Networks and store and forward like uunet by kenh · · Score: 2

    You are trying too hard - AREDN to an Internet uplink. Easily-deplorable $100 nodes with a few dozen $1,000 nodes with strong sector antennas and a reliable backbone network - every element of which can be bought off Amazon.

    --
    Ken
  13. Re: Mesh Networks and store and forward like uune by kenh · · Score: 1

    Easily deployable, not deplorable - damn autocorrect.

    --
    Ken
  14. Also accepting hams. by sabbede · · Score: 2

    They've got to be hungry.

  15. Re:Mesh Networks and store and forward like uunet by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Airships, with wifi!

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  16. CQ CQ QUA /.? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Today's Slashdot outage is an excellent example of why Commercial Communications, and especially the Internet, needs volunteer backups like Hams with their own Gear.
    BTW, will we ever get an explanation as to why Slashdot and Sourceforge were down all day?
    2 Meters and Repeaters aren't good enough. They won't reach the Mainland from Puerto Rico for one thing. It's fine for local stuff, as long as the Repeaters stay up, but how many of them are on Emergency Generators? And if so, for how long?
    A QRP Sideband Rig on the lower Bands will run off a decent Car Battery for a week.
    A few reminders:
    *Ham Gear is Cheap. My most recent Rig covers 160-6, including the Marine Bands, (Called "Opening It Up". Not legal; nobody cares.), and including _everything_ cost $175. Elmer was giving it up.
    *There is no Code Test. Hasn't been one for years.
    *The Tests are ridiculously easy, and are given by Volunteers, either singly or by Clubs.
    *In Emergencies, the FCC doesn't give a Flea Fart as to whether you are Licensed. Learn some manners and some rules, pass some Traffic, keep the Frequencies clear when needed. You really have to be an obnoxious Bucketmouth to attract FCC attention.

    So Slashdot is finally back up, and as Bruce noted elsewhere, he hopes this Article stays on the front page for days. Lessons Learned.

  17. Nice to see the RC doing something useful by mveloso · · Score: 1

    It's been a long time since the Red Cross has done anything useful.

    Ideally the RC should hire the public works department of Burning Man to do their disaster logistics...and should have plans for how to handle the various disasters that strike. They don't.

    But looking for HAMs is a good first step towards a new, more effective Red Cross.

    1. Re:Nice to see the RC doing something useful by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      public works department of Burning Man

      Bennett Haselton? He used to be a frequent contributor.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  18. Re: Mesh Networks and store and forward like uune by blindseer · · Score: 1

    Easily deployable, not deplorable - damn autocorrect.

    I think you had it right the first time.

    Amateur radio is great but I think it's being used in times and places where it is not appropriate. A bunch of Amateur radio network nodes, even if connected to the internet at some point, may not be all that useful given the practical (on different frequencies) and legal (no encryption) limitations of the Amateur Radio Service.

    Where I think Amateur radio should shine in emergencies is in the collection of trained radio operators capable of using their skills and piles of electronics to provide communications. I envision Amateurs setting up their own COTS Part 15 devices, converted to comply with Part 97, in their spare time to learn how radios work. When an emergency comes along they can tear that down, carry it to where it's needed, and convert it back to Part 15 so that people with their iPhones and Android devices can communicate with family and friends. Now in Part 15 territory it works with non-Amateur devices that people have in their pockets and encryption is allowed.

    The licensed Amateurs would also talk among themselves using Amateur radio bands and equipment to coordinate things and pass traffic that people wouldn't mind heard in the clear. Private communications among family could be encrypted though with commodity hardware. Providing assistance to first responders should also be encrypted. This might be with commercial grade radios though, but the Amatuers still bring technical expertise to operate the radios and free up others so they can do what they are best at, instead of having to work a radio.

    I believe the real asset that Amateur radio provides is the people, not necessarily the gear they have. Get a bunch of Amateur radio operators together, hand them boxes of CB and FRS radios, and they'll still be effective communicators. Give them boxes of Wi-Fi gear, random computer parts, and they'll restore internet to a community. Bring your Amateur gear, but also bring your skills so you can get what you find there working for you too.

    Those Amateur radio network nodes are going to look rather deplorable when people come by and they find out they can't connect their Apple and Droid pocket computers with it. The FCC might look the other way on a lot of the rules in an emergency, such as use of encryption to keep medical details private, or "salty" language slipping by when an Amateur allows a non-licensed person to use the radio. Using commodity hardware, not the "deplorable" Amateur stuff, would likely keep the FCC and the community served happier.

    That's my humble opinion of course.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  19. Re:Why do people bother with prayers? by Pseudonym · · Score: 2

    If you believe in some all powerful being [...]

    That doesn't necessarily follow from the word "prayers" alone. Some people pray to ancestors, saints, or some other non-fundamentalist entity which doesn't satisfy the properties of a classical deity with the three "omnis".

    Besides, the main effect of prayer is probably to change the person praying and that alone can be valuable.

    --
    sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
  20. Re: Trump says, "Wait, their all black & spani by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    slightly inaccurate. It is the American Red Cross that is coordinating this effort.

    Amazing. Usually they just show up days late and screw things up. At least, that's what happened after the Valley Fire up here in Lake County, CA. They literally shut down functioning goods distribution, and never started it back up.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  21. This is completely unnecessary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The RC is simply trying to get in the way of what Hams are already doing. I've been relaying health and welfare messages every evening since a couple of days after the hurricane. Many other hams are doing same.

    The RC and the ARRL like to get their mitts on stuff like this so they can use it for fundraising. All they're going to do is inject a bunch of huge bureaucracy into something that is already functioning exactly as it is supposed to.

  22. Very, very shortwave by sabbede · · Score: 1
    I had a really short shortwave radio, and I'm talking super-duper short. So short that I had to get rid of it.

    It kept turning my neighbors into Hulks.

  23. Re:Why do people bother with prayers? by EmagGeek · · Score: 2, Informative

    The point of prayer is to strengthen our relationship with God and our Savior Jesus Christ.

    "Why does God allow bad things to happen to good people?" is a common question, but it's a little flawed. First, there are no such things as good people. We are all sinners. I, for one, am also a hypocrite, because I preach the virtues of a life that I could never lead, and worship a God that I am supposed to be like, but will never be able to. People often ask me accusingly, "how can you preach that kind of life when you don't even live it?" My response to that question is often, "how could I hope to life that life if I'm not preaching it?"

    God does all things according to His plan. We ruined our relationship with Him with our sin, and He has since been trying to draw us back. Being a believer in God and disciple of Christ doesn't mean life is supposed to be perfect and without peril. But, when peril does happen, we have a rock to stand on when people fail us (and they will, just as I will fail others). There is comfort in God, and in the scriptures, and in all of the examples in the Bible of incredibly broken people who nevertheless kept faithful to Him.

    The people of Puerto Rico have experienced a great peril, but in that peril lies an opportunity at an outpouring of Christ-like love and humility, and not just for them, but also for us. In a time when many people look negatively at Puerto Rico for whatever reason, we should all be reminded that they are still people just like us. Sinners, just like us. We all fall to the same level ground. We are right there with them in their peril, as a brother is periled, so are we.

    Not only does God care about the people of Puerto Rico, He cares about us how we respond to it. I see the terrible tragedy here, but I also see the tremendous opportunity to be a reflection of God's Grace as He intended us to be. Jesus never did anything for Himself. He was never selfish, and he constantly poured Himself out, emptying Himself on behalf of others. He never did anything out of selfish ambition or conceit. I want so badly to live that life the way He did, but I can't. I'm too selfish, and too great a sinner. But, that doesn't mean I can't try to emulate the love of Jesus and accept the Grace of His salvation from my sin.

    So, yes I will absolutely continue to pray for the people of Puerto Rico, and I will do what I can to show them the love that Christ had for me. It might be all I can do to relay some messages home, but I will do it faithfully to glorify God and His plan.

  24. Re: Trump says, "Wait, their all black & spani by guruevi · · Score: 2

    Can't expect trolls to know grammer and speling.

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  25. Re: Why do people bother with prayers? by guruevi · · Score: 1

    God and his Plan has often involved natural disasters to wipe out the sinners. Why are you resisting him?

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  26. Re: Mesh Networks and store and forward like uune by Miamicanes · · Score: 2

    I agree totally.

    Imagine two scenarios:

    Scenario 1: ham spends 16 hours & relays a few hundred "We're alive" messages.

    Scenario 2: ham bolts a VSAT satellite dish onto a pole w/southern view, fires up a small generator, aims the dish, configures the hughes.net (or WildBlue, or some other service) satellite modem, sets up an 802.11ac access point, then tells 2,000 people "it's working!", so they can post THEIR OWN messages instead of relying on one ham to do everything.

    IMHO, it's a no-brainer which scenario would put the ham's skills to best use & benefit the most people directly (scenario #2, obviously).

    And the gear isn't even all that expensive... maybe $3k/site, if FEMA or the American Red Cross gets totally raped & (over-)pays full list price for everything. More like $2k/site if they even TRIED to get a good deal. Add maybe $500-2000/month per site for satellite internet service and generator gas, max. To FEMA or the Red Cross, this is literally pocket change... they probably spend more money transporting a single truckload of bottled water.

  27. Re: Why do people bother with prayers? by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    It is written in James 2:14-17:

    "14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, âoeGo in peace, be warmed and filled,â without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead."

    Praying for someone in need without actually helping them is a hollow act. So, in a sense, you're correct that it's a terrible thing to pray for someone without giving actual, material assistance.

  28. Re:Why do people bother with prayers? by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    I *am* actually sincere, and it is not because of constant religious brainwashing. In fact I was a militant Atheist for nearly three decades until I experienced the true magnitude of Grace.

    The vast majority of Atheists I talk to describe being a "good person" as being charitable, loving, kind, compassionate, forgiving, and so on. These are the very same things that I preach from the Bible, and certainly that they are written about so much in the Bible is the one and only reason that these things are considered "good" in our culture.

    It requires no mental gymnastics to act on a desire to empty ones self of conceit and selfish desires for the benefit of others. It only requires an awareness of one's brokenness and the acceptance of divine assistance in trying to overcome it.

  29. Re:Why do people bother with prayers? by EmagGeek · · Score: 1

    God reaches everyone in one way or another. The teachings of Jesus originated, as you know, in the middle east. A culture does not need to have seen a bible to have been influenced by the teachings of Christ. The Romans and Greeks carried those teachings all throughout Europe and Asia before Christians explored the new world long before what we know of as the Bible was ever assembled. Many books, including the epistles, were not written for decades after Christ's resurrection.

    It's funny - I used to say the EXACT same thing about control. However, following Christ has always been a wholly voluntary and wholly spiritual decision. In fact, Christ was persecuted relentlessly by those who were actually in control at the time. The people who actually were all about control were terrified of Him. Even so, the teachings of Christ still call for us to respect and submit to the authorities of our governments, and follow the rule of Law so long as they do not conflict with God's law - as all authority on Earth is placed by Him. Christ did not endeavor to wrest control from elected authorities because that would be an affront to the Father - the exact opposite of His purpose on Earth. His purposes here were to demonstrate obedience to God, demonstrate a sin-free life (as he is the only one ever to have lived one) that we might endeavor to emulate, and to be the perfect sacrifice in fulfillment of God's law.

    Controlling people was never part of that equation, but Atheists still cling to that argument for some reason I have yet to figure out. In retrospect I cannot even find a way to support it, even though I made it for decades.

  30. Re:3.4M folks, 3500 sqmiles, 50 Hams by rally2xs · · Score: 1

    What can 50 hams do? The plan is that they work in 25 2-person teams in the various ARC shelters taking names and addresses, entering those into a radio-based email system (Winkink) and send the info back to the states where the ARC is maintaining a "Safe and Well" database to be able to keep those interested in the well-being of people they know in PR informed. Sounds like it would work fine. The volunteers are to be there 3 weeks. No word whether they'll be followed by another 50 volunteers for a subsequent 3 weeks or whether it all might continue for quite some time due to the horrendous damage. How do you rebuild many washed-out bridges? How do you get supplies from point A to point B if you don't? Probably need those military-style bridges that the Army engineers construct as temporary things to get the tanks and troops across the rivers and ravines. Looks like a super-expensive, super-difficult cleanup.

  31. Re: Trump says, "Wait, their all black & spa by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    Write on!

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