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EU Takes Ireland To Court For Not Claiming Apple Tax Windfall (reuters.com)
Philip Blenkinsop, reporting for Reuters: The European Commission said on Wednesday it was taking Ireland to the European Court of Justice for its failure to recover up to 13 billion euros ($15.3 billion) of tax due from Apple, a move labeled as "regrettable" by Dublin. The Commission ordered the U.S. tech giant in August 2016 to pay the unpaid taxes as it ruled the firm had received illegal state aid, one of a number of deals the EU has targeted between multinationals and usually smaller EU states. "More than one year after the Commission adopted this decision, Ireland has still not recovered the money," EU Competition Commissioner Margrethe Vestager said, adding that Dublin had not even sought a portion of the sum.
in back taxes as it had been given an unfair tax deal in Luxembourg. OK: Amazon saved some tax, but that saving allowed it to under-cut its rivals, some of who have been put out of business - will there be any compensation for those competitors, the cost of which could dwarf the back-tax bill ? I suspect that the answer is no in which case Amazon's dodgy dealings have been highly profitable and will continue to be so in the future -- as it has fewer competitors.
Hey, yeah, let's argue about this. I can call you something like "idiot", and then people can pick sides and we can all be angry at each other.
Yes, God help us if companies are forced to pay their legally required taxes
Actually, Ireland wants to - and will - remain in the EU as they benefit from membership much more than Britain. Also, the EU has already told Catalonia that they (EU) will NOT recognize their claim of independence. But sure - keep stirrin the pot, Mr. Trump-Bannon-Farage.
but then big companies could not use the tax loophole to avoid paying tax in Europe... you could not safely transfer the low tax earnings from Ireland via EU free internal money transaction to Luxembourg or Netherlands to transfer then to the US using low tax money transfer from those countries (you can add other loops around, but this is basically it)
This are well known loopholes that the each Country politics and EU central politics fail to close, because it would affect very powerful companies and, of course, also private money transfers... those politics have to earn their money!! but there is problem, the remaining tax payers (common people) will pay more tax for covering that missing money!
Higuita
It wouldn't matter if the EU did recognize Catalonian independence as Spain would probably not consent to them joining the EU.
Also, isn't part of the reason that all of these companies incorporate in Ireland or have their European branched headquartered there officially so that they can funnel all of the revenue earned in the EU through Ireland for the lower taxes. Ireland leaving the EU removes the reason for those corporations to be there in the first place. It makes no sense for them to want to leave.
then they cant tax haven anymore. the russia backed cata movement will only fuck themselves.
The answer is simple: as part of the EU treaty they signed, they can offer low tax rates overall, but their separate deal with Apple produced such low tax rates for Apple that the EU deemed it to be "state aid" to Apple, which is against EU rules. Zat help?
No, it's actually based on decency. And Europe isn't Socialist. It's Democratic Socialist which means certain things are sacrosanct (e.g. health care, education, etc.) and everything else is fair game as long as the rules are followed.
In Europe you generally don't see headlines about how some big corporation just reported its largest profit in its entire history and is also laying off thousands of workers.
Anonymous Cowards generally receive no replies because you're a coward and I'm a bitch
that would be economic suicide for them.
In Europe you generally don't see headlines about how some big corporation just reported its largest profit in its entire history and is also laying off thousands of workers.
Biggest corporate news out of Europe, about European company, that I can think about in past couple years is Volkswagen and their vast emissions scandal.
Which is all the more ironic coming from Europe, given the 'Democratic Socialists' over there are so climate-woke and eco-conscious compared to us not-any-brand of socialist coal-burner Americans who allegedly make crappy sooty cars...but invented Tesla and autonomous driving anyways just for kicks.
I think the stereotypes you subscribe to aren't working.
No, it's so they can funnel all the revenue earned GLOBALLY through Ireland.
They did pay their legally required taxes to Irelend. The EU decided that Ireland's sovereign tax rate wasn't high enough. It's big EU countries trying to dictate what Ireland should do. That should not be legal.
EU as a whole, and most member and quasi-member nations, believe in social welfare, not corporate welfare. The US is different in this regard. Americans are against social welfare, but very much in favor of corporate welfare, under the misguided belief that this will translate into jobs.
It doesn't of course. Less taxes means more profits but more profits doesn't lead to more jobs. But since Americans are against social welfare, they have a comparatively poor public education system, so it's hardly surprising that the average american voter can not understand much more than rudimentary economics. Just look at how much they confuse the concept of a government budget with that of their own personal budget. Utterly senseless.
I'm in.
I think we should hitlerize the nazimistic terroristic pedophiliac child-endangerment side of the argument and stuff.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Ireland is the Delaware of the EU.
Both are business-friendly.
Businesses have ____ (hint: lots of money).
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
I don't know about Europe but the EU isn't Democratic or Socialist. It's run by an unelected group who's primary concern is the protection of the banking system (especially the German banking system). If the EU were democratic or socialist Britain wouldn't be leaving. Catalonia, on the other hand would be as their beef is that it's not financially right-wing enough.
Europe is not any one particular political system. It's not Socialist nor is it Social Democrat. It is numerous countries all with their own governments formed by their Citizens.
Let me ask you, are those corporations that interested in the Irish market? So why doesn't Ireland leave big bad EU?
What is in dispute here is that Ireland is behaving like a tax haven while enjoying full access to the EU market. Same thing for Luxembourg.
Yes. And that means the companies were not paying their legally required taxes?
Yes, companies were not paying their legally required taxes.
Who decides what companies should pay within a sovereign nation? Is it the nation, or the EU?
The nation. The nation made a decision to agree to certain terms when it joined the economic union known as the European Union. Those terms are binding on the nation as long as they're part of that union. Not enforcing those terms is the sovereign equivalent of signing up for a cell phone contract, then telling the cell phone company you're only going to pay 30% of the bill each month, because it's a better deal for you.
And if there is an issue - does it mean the company didn't pay its legally required taxes, or that the nation violated some trade agreement it had?
Both. The company didn't pay its legally required taxes and the nation that is letting it is violating a trade agreement by doing so.
Really, this isn't hard. If you believe in the rule of law at all, then you must also believe that sovereign nations are subject to it, or treaties are totally meaningless, always. Which is certainly an option, if you want the world at each other's throats on a constant basis. Those of us who prefer peace and quiet would like to see treaties honored.
And Apple can pay their fucking taxes. I have to. So do they.
Corporation tax in Ireland is 12.5%. Apple gets a sweetheart deal from the Irish government and pays a lot less than 12.5%. Sweetheart deals like this are banned in the EU to prevent a race to the bottom by other small states. It's OK under EU rules for them to charge less than 12.5% but that has to be the rate for all corporation tax payers in Ireland, not just Apple and other big multinationals with similar deals.
It's something Ireland agreed to on accession to the EU. If they want to leave the EU and play these sorts of games, no problem but Apple relies on Ireland's EU membership to be able to shuffle their profits from all the other EU nations frictionlessly through their Irish offices and pay less tax than anywhere else. Outside the EU Ireland is no further use as a cheap-tax-rate haven for Apple et al.
It's not Apple at fault here, it's the notoriously corrupt Irish government that has traditionally played fast and loose with such financial rules in many other circumstances. The EU has had enough. If Ireland don't collect the taxes due from Apple I'd expect various EU grants and subsidies to be cut back pro rata on the basis that the Irish government had the chance to raise those revenues properly themselves by charging the correct rate of tax in the first place.
Another one smoked by facts; hence one more back to the Nazi chant.
BTW, unlike Tesla, autonomous driving, etc., one thing Europe invented was...Nazis. Just say'in!
Brussels doesn't get the cash, the cash actually goes to Ireland and Luxemburg. Brussels are trying to ensure that everyone isn't getting screwed over by the corrupt arrangements made by these two countries. If they want to make such deals with companies then they need to leave the EU (certainly and option) but then none of these companies would have any interest whatsoever in being in either of those countries as they are really using this as a tax haven to funnel money out of the rest of the EU which would no longer be possible once they left the EU.
I think the EU would be very happy for Ireland not to be a member, they have cost the rest of the EU a fortune in bailouts, lost tax revenues and problems. Ireland however would probably collapse, especially as without the EU market access none of the companies they gave the sweetheart tax deals too would stay and everyone would be free to impose tarrifs etc on a country that is using tax laws to steal from other nations. This is not about imposing rules on them, it is about making them meet the obligations they signed up to as a condition of entry to the EU marketplace.
I already said, "Delaware."
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Ireland joind the EEC along with the UK in 1974. It is at *THIS* point that they agreed to no state aid and it became possible to funnel profits from the rest of the EEC through Ireland. This is all *BEFORE* Apple existed as a corporate entity and well before 1980.
In Europe you generally don't see headlines about how some big corporation just reported its largest profit in its entire history and is also laying off thousands of workers.
Biggest corporate news out of Europe, about European company, that I can think about in past couple years is Volkswagen and their vast emissions scandal.
Which is all the more ironic coming from Europe, given the 'Democratic Socialists' over there are so climate-woke and eco-conscious compared to us not-any-brand of socialist coal-burner Americans who allegedly make crappy sooty cars...but invented Tesla and autonomous driving anyways just for kicks.
I think the stereotypes you subscribe to aren't working.
Funny, what I remember most is a bunch of headlines coming out of Europe about a string of corporations being punished by the EU for abusive practices like using their dominant market position to stifle competition, price fixing and general anti-trust activities. The latest examples are Microsoft and Google which, incidentally, are still free to continue those abusive practices in the USA where the government sees nothing wrong with corporations abusing monopolies to screw the public. Still, these fines are often used by a certain species of US commentators to claim the EU preferentially victimises US corporations which is bullshit. Some other greedy corporations honoured by the EU with major fines include: Intel, Telefonica, Servier, Volvo, MAN, Volvo/Renault, Daimler, Iveco, DAF, Scania, Asahi, Pilkington, Saint-Gobain, Soliver, Sony, Qualcomm, Chunghwa, LG Electronics, Philips and Samsung SDI, Panasonic, Toshiba and Facebook to name a few examples. That list is not exactly dominated by US corporations. The EU seems to pretty evenhanded when it comes to handing out tough love. Oh... I doubt Apple will remain the only prominent name on the back-taxes to-do list for long.
and those nations were fine with what was being paid
Just like you're fine with buying a clearly stolen TV out of the back of a van? In many places you're non the less committing a crime.
The nations made illegal deals with specific corporations, and that's the problem here. Accomplices to crimes are punishable in nearly every jurisdiction on the planet. You can't pretend that Apple and Amazon are completely innocent in a deal created specifically for them knowingly in breach of rules that ensure that corporations are treated equally within the bloc.
I didn't kill him your honour. The assassin did. I only did a normal business transaction of paying money in exchange for services rendered!