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EU Takes Ireland To Court For Not Claiming Apple Tax Windfall (reuters.com)
Philip Blenkinsop, reporting for Reuters: The European Commission said on Wednesday it was taking Ireland to the European Court of Justice for its failure to recover up to 13 billion euros ($15.3 billion) of tax due from Apple, a move labeled as "regrettable" by Dublin. The Commission ordered the U.S. tech giant in August 2016 to pay the unpaid taxes as it ruled the firm had received illegal state aid, one of a number of deals the EU has targeted between multinationals and usually smaller EU states. "More than one year after the Commission adopted this decision, Ireland has still not recovered the money," EU Competition Commissioner Margrethe Vestager said, adding that Dublin had not even sought a portion of the sum.
Hopefully Ireland decides to tell the EU to go to hell and bail along with Britain and soon-to-be Catalan.
in back taxes as it had been given an unfair tax deal in Luxembourg. OK: Amazon saved some tax, but that saving allowed it to under-cut its rivals, some of who have been put out of business - will there be any compensation for those competitors, the cost of which could dwarf the back-tax bill ? I suspect that the answer is no in which case Amazon's dodgy dealings have been highly profitable and will continue to be so in the future -- as it has fewer competitors.
all Irish are chattel. Those parasitic fools filling seats in the EU parliament are overdue for a reality check.
So if Ireland doesn't get tax money, and benefits from having some folks employeed are way below whatever they'd get from this tax, why would they even consider such a weird move?
Other than someone in the government getting something from Apple...
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Prisoners will jealously defend their status as the prisoner that inflicts the beatings on other prisoners to save the masters the trouble.
Nothing new here. Typical race to the bottom.
Socialism is nothing more that punishing success.
It's based on envy.
No, it's actually based on decency. And Europe isn't Socialist. It's Democratic Socialist which means certain things are sacrosanct (e.g. health care, education, etc.) and everything else is fair game as long as the rules are followed.
In Europe you generally don't see headlines about how some big corporation just reported its largest profit in its entire history and is also laying off thousands of workers.
Anonymous Cowards generally receive no replies because you're a coward and I'm a bitch
This whole affair just serves as another proof that the EU is an enormous quagmire of regulations and nobody knows where, when and how to apply them. These 'legal' proceedings will drag on for years and nothing tangible will ever come out of it.
RIP EU.
In Europe you generally don't see headlines about how some big corporation just reported its largest profit in its entire history and is also laying off thousands of workers.
Biggest corporate news out of Europe, about European company, that I can think about in past couple years is Volkswagen and their vast emissions scandal.
Which is all the more ironic coming from Europe, given the 'Democratic Socialists' over there are so climate-woke and eco-conscious compared to us not-any-brand of socialist coal-burner Americans who allegedly make crappy sooty cars...but invented Tesla and autonomous driving anyways just for kicks.
I think the stereotypes you subscribe to aren't working.
In related news: Announcing our corporate tax rebate program.
-- Ireland
Have gnu, will travel.
Sounds so much better than 4th Reich, doesn't it?
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Compared to the other systems which are based on greed?
Decency may be the goal but time and again socialism is a failure because it's based on ideal conditions and wishful thinking. Norway's proven it works but that's because of huge oil revenue AND smart long-term economic planning. Fail on either and you get Venezuela.
I don't know about Europe but the EU isn't Democratic or Socialist. It's run by an unelected group who's primary concern is the protection of the banking system (especially the German banking system). If the EU were democratic or socialist Britain wouldn't be leaving. Catalonia, on the other hand would be as their beef is that it's not financially right-wing enough.
So the EU sues Ireland and the EU prevails - then what? Companies get shut down for evading taxes. You don't exactly shut down a country.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
Europe is not any one particular political system. It's not Socialist nor is it Social Democrat. It is numerous countries all with their own governments formed by their Citizens.
In Europe, the most talked about and long lasting problems are associated with the democratic socialist system. In America, the most talked about and long lasting problems are associated with the turbo-capitalist system. Pick your poison.
That's generally because the socialist environment prevents success in the first place.
Biggest corporate news out of Europe, about European company, that I can think about in past couple years is Volkswagen and their vast emissions scandal.
The emissions scandal wasn't specific to Volkswagen and I doubt it is the biggest corporate news out of Europe in the past couple of years.
Which is all the more ironic coming from Europe, given the 'Democratic Socialists' over there are so climate-woke and eco-conscious compared to us not-any-brand of socialist coal-burner Americans who allegedly make crappy sooty cars
They do. Dieselgate was about nitrous oxide, not about soot. And Volkswagen was not amongst the worst offenders, unlike Ford, Fiat Chrysler and Opel, which was a subsidiary of General Motors at the time.
but invented Tesla
Tesla was not 'invented'. It's a brand.
and autonomous driving anyways just for kicks
Daimler-Benz and Ernst Dickmanns are American now?
The only reason to choose an unapologetically capitalist system over a capitalist system with socialist add-ons is the honesty of the purely capitalist system: It doesn't aim for stability or decency. Its only driving force is greed. Everything that may be considered a failure in other systems is just part of the natural progression in a capitalist system. Crashed economy? That's how capitalism deals with economic bubbles. People losing their homes? They better learn from that and make better investments next time. Got shot at in Vegas and can't afford getting your wounds treated? GoFundMe.com.
Who sez the Irish can't bend-neez to Apple ? Like they usta say ... blo Jobs blo ....
The emissions scandal wasn't specific to Volkswagen and I doubt it is the biggest corporate news out of Europe in the past couple of years.
Volkswagen is only outfit that has been levied billions in fines, had to recall millions of vehicles, and had major corporate figures criminally charged stemming from the emissions scandal. What bigger corporate news has come out of Europe in past couple years? The oblivion of Nokia, maybe?
They do. Dieselgate was about nitrous oxide, not about soot. And Volkswagen was not amongst the worst offenders...
See my immediately previous comment.
...unlike Ford, Fiat Chrysler and Opel, which was a subsidiary of General Motors at the time.
See my immediately previous comment (again).
Tesla was not 'invented'. It's a brand.
The Model S was invented. Invented by Tesla to be specific. Model S represents first physical embodiment of the notion that an electric car could be fast, not look like rolling birth control, and have merits beyond environmental abstractions of the powertrain choice. See BMW i3 for European example of mainstream electric car. I say no more.
Daimler-Benz and Ernst Dickmanns are American now?
No, they are not American. They follow Americans, in this case the suddenly-emerging trend of autonomous driving that American industry is spearheading.
You mean, in the US you donâ(TM)t see headlines about a EU company layoff, layoffs also tend to kill the company because the unions make sure people stay on until the last penny has been squeezed. But Microsoft, IBM and Oracle have done it.
A little bit like UK and the unelected prime minister...
The socialist environment prevents passing the buck. This leads to prevention of "success" because that sort of success is based upon leveraging yourself up on other people's backs. Is that a bad thing to prevent?
Its time to FIRE the EU, and go elsewhere. Do NOT trade YOUR OWN GOVERNANCE for EU rulers. You'll Regret it.
Yes, it's true! The fascist regime in place in the US since the 1980s only makes examples of foreign companies.
American companies are free to rape American citizens and the world without any repercussions.
Make America Great Again!
I'm constantly amazed how all new slashdot users are far right nazi trump supporting fascist white trash. Probably why readership on /. has dwindled from 500-1000 posts per article to 50-80 posts / article.
Seig heil!
Another one smoked by facts; hence one more back to the Nazi chant.
BTW, unlike Tesla, autonomous driving, etc., one thing Europe invented was...Nazis. Just say'in!
Ireland has had a blinkered, cowed, short-sighted policy for the past 30 years.
Advertise itself as a tax haven, with an educated but cheap english speaking workforce.
It basically, pimped its own people.
As a result, there are investors, but there are no local champions,
and profits are not retained.
It is basically the policy of a craven colony.
What are the charges against Ireland? Does EU really have the power to sue a state for not collecting taxes? That would be funny since EU commission president Junker is an expert at that.
Yes, Europe did industrialize and experience unbridled capitalism first, you're right! Thankfully, they learned from their mistakes.
The far right did get a hold of Germany and we saw what they did with their immigrants and 'others'. Nazi-ism (far right fascism) is by far no way an invention unique to Europe. The US is marching to its fascist anti-immigrant racist leader as we speak, and damn proud of it.
Tesla you mean the company envisioned and started by a South African Canadian? Fascists all over the world love the US: your business pays little to no taxes, gets away with murder, and the worst you'll get is a talking down to in front of the Congress you've purchased. As a fascist, I too would move to the US, it's fantastic. You can build up unlimited amount of wealth in your family, socialize all costs and private all profits. It's a win-win.
You must either be paid to post or really smart, I can't tell which one yet..
America was great when the upper marginal tax rate was 92% from the 40s through the 60s/early 70s. The middle class existed then. Since then it's golden shower Reagenomics... open wide (wallets, anus, mouth), the fascists are coming.
If you've got a conscience, don't buy one. If you don't, buy one.
"Tesla " is a knock off of a man who was vastly more intelligent than the person behind the company you are representing. And do not believe those cars have any less of a carbon footprint than ICE engines. Electricity in my town comes from coal and gas burners with solar subsidizing rolling blackouts from undersupply issues from lazy fatcats.
And autonomous? fucking hilarious. I think you are referring to Teslas "Auto Pilot" FEATURE, which is a self proclaimed driver assist feature because it is NOT truly autonomous without interactions, and is a misnomer to the general public.
In Europe you generally don't see headlines about how some big corporation just reported its largest profit in its entire history and is also laying off thousands of workers.
Don't worry, the US as a trade pact to help you change that.
Volkswagen is only outfit that has been levied billions in fines, had to recall millions of vehicles, and had major corporate figures criminally charged stemming from the emissions scandal.
Well, others had to recall large numbers of vehicles as well, but indeed only Volkswagen has had to pay fines so far. There are two reasons for that: the first is that VW were the only manufacturer stupid enough to openly admit and the second is that VW was the only company that sold a significant number of affected vehicles in the US, were these kind of cases go much faster, since they don't bother with due process and other things they consider a waste of time, especially when the target is a foreign company that doesn't employ many people in the US and hasn't bought many American politicians. But all of the investigations against car manufacturers (including Volkswagen) for cheating emissions in Europe are still ongoing (rule of law, due process, that kind of thing, no plea bargains) and chances are they either all have to pay hefty fines, or all of them get off with a stern warning if it turns out the engine protection loophole pans out.
What bigger corporate news has come out of Europe in past couple years?
Plenty of things: Bayer buying Monsanto, the car industry buying Here, Airbus launching the A350, the Siemens Transportation - Alstom merger, energy companies ofloading their fossil fuel power branches, the impeding consolidation in the steel industry, the succes of service startups like HelloFresh, Zalando and Spotify etc.
The Model S was invented. Invented by Tesla to be specific.
No it wasn't. It's a product. It was developed. There is no fundamentally new technology in it.
Model S represents first physical embodiment of the notion that an electric car could be fast, not look like rolling birth control, and have merits beyond environmental abstractions of the powertrain choice.
Everybody knew an electric car could be fast. It's simple physics. It was just not a very relevant property for the target audience of electric cars. Tesla may have surprised people by showing that even an electric car can be unreliable when you let Americans build it, though. I wish they would find a way to use Elon Musk's arrogance and smugness to power a vehicle. That would be revolutionary and useful.
See BMW i3 for European example of mainstream electric car.
Or the Volkswagen e-Golf, or the Renault Zoe. Perfectly fine cars, that both outsell the Tesla Model S at the moment.
No, they are not American. They follow Americans, in this case the suddenly-emerging trend of autonomous driving that American industry is spearheading.
There was no suddenly-emerging trend of autonomous driving in the 1980s and 1990s when Daimler-Benz developed the first self-driving car. In fact, they shelved the project when it was more or less finished because there was no interest from car buyers. And the American industry wasn't spearheading anything other than extremely crappy cars at the time.
In the current wave of enthusiasm for autonomous driving the majority of the actual technology comes from European firms and it seems likely that European brands will be the first to launch fully autonomous cars on the market.
Tesla wasn't invented anywhere (not an invention) and autonomous driving was invented in Europe. Check your facts.
Nazis may have been invented in Europe, but they would have never be able to grab the power without financial backing from the US.
EU as a whole, and most member and quasi-member nations, believe in social welfare, not corporate welfare. The US is different in this regard. Americans are against social welfare, but very much in favor of corporate welfare, under the misguided belief that this will translate into jobs.
It doesn't of course. Less taxes means more profits but more profits doesn't lead to more jobs. But since Americans are against social welfare, they have a comparatively poor public education system, so it's hardly surprising that the average american voter can not understand much more than rudimentary economics. Just look at how much they confuse the concept of a government budget with that of their own personal budget. Utterly senseless.
You left out that if you lower the taxes which means more profits those profits get exported, instantly, to tax havens like Panama using creative bookkeeping methods where they further increase the estimated 29 trillion dollars kept in such tax havens. The US state of Kansas is a good example of this, they forged ahead with an experiment in massive tax cutting for the wealthy based on the notion that it would cause an increase in investment in the local economy and shrink government... it didn't. Rich people took the money they saved on taxes into out of state tax havens, state revenues fell off a cliff but since even the staunchest of conservatives did not want to make any cuts government did not shrink so they propped up the state of Kansas with borrowing. Republican Governor Sam Brownback is now watching his much lauded (by ultra conservatives) regimen of tax cuts being rolled back by, of all things, a moderate Republican-Democratic coalition which is now at war with Brownback trying to pass a veto proof income tax increase. Now try to imagine what kind of a raging dumpster fire of a fucking mess Brownback had to make of Kansas (or any American state for that matter) to motivate Republicans and Democrats to get together and raise taxes.
Britain is leaving the EU precisely so that the wealthy don't have to suffer the effects of the EU initiative to reclaim unpaid taxes. Plenty of other reasons and promises, many mutually incompatible, were give to people to encourage them to vote out. I'm actually now more worried about the fury of the people once they realise they have been conned and lied to, rather than the negative impact that leaving will have on the country.
Also, the EU is not run by an unelected group. A group _appointed_ by elected people is responsible for creating the initial wording of legislation, much like the bureaucracy in many democratic countries does. Another 'bogy man' thrown out by the section of the press owned by the tax-dodging rich.
In Europe you generally don't see headlines about how some big corporation just reported its largest profit in its entire history and is also laying off thousands of workers.
Biggest corporate news out of Europe, about European company, that I can think about in past couple years is Volkswagen and their vast emissions scandal.
Which is all the more ironic coming from Europe, given the 'Democratic Socialists' over there are so climate-woke and eco-conscious compared to us not-any-brand of socialist coal-burner Americans who allegedly make crappy sooty cars...but invented Tesla and autonomous driving anyways just for kicks.
I think the stereotypes you subscribe to aren't working.
Funny, what I remember most is a bunch of headlines coming out of Europe about a string of corporations being punished by the EU for abusive practices like using their dominant market position to stifle competition, price fixing and general anti-trust activities. The latest examples are Microsoft and Google which, incidentally, are still free to continue those abusive practices in the USA where the government sees nothing wrong with corporations abusing monopolies to screw the public. Still, these fines are often used by a certain species of US commentators to claim the EU preferentially victimises US corporations which is bullshit. Some other greedy corporations honoured by the EU with major fines include: Intel, Telefonica, Servier, Volvo, MAN, Volvo/Renault, Daimler, Iveco, DAF, Scania, Asahi, Pilkington, Saint-Gobain, Soliver, Sony, Qualcomm, Chunghwa, LG Electronics, Philips and Samsung SDI, Panasonic, Toshiba and Facebook to name a few examples. That list is not exactly dominated by US corporations. The EU seems to pretty evenhanded when it comes to handing out tough love. Oh... I doubt Apple will remain the only prominent name on the back-taxes to-do list for long.
We're leaving the EU because that's the way we voted. My vote had nothing to do with "unpaid taxes".
My vote was based on the remainer's argument. There is certainty in the EU. So, I looked at the trends based on their argument and decided I preferred uncertainty instead.
EEC was brought in under the guise of it bringing prosperity, that's what I judged it under when it came time to vote.
The EC which has overriding powers and it's members are not under influence of democratic voting mechanisms by the people in the EU.
No, that's the EP, the EC can override the EP and even sets the topics that EP can discuss and vote on.
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Germany has been running an illegal (under EU rules) trade surplus for years right now.
When/If the EU fines them, then we can take the EU seriously.
Right now, it's just selectively applying its rule.
The EU is run by theCouncil of Europe which consists of the democratically elected governments of the 28 member states (being a democracy is a condition of entry).
The executive (called the European Commission) is appointed by the democratically elected governments of the 28 member states, much like the executive in the USA is appointed by the democratically elected president.
There is also a directly elected parliament but it doesn't have as much power as the US Congress or the British parliament.
In short, your statement is completely false.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
Biggest corporate news out of Europe, about European company, that I can think about in past couple years is Volkswagen and their vast emissions scandal.
The clue is in the last word of this sentence: scandal!
Scandal sells stories.
The biggest news of the last couple of years out of Europe, about a European company, that I can think of would be the sale of ARM* to a Japanese firm (SoftBank) for £24 billion (and then the subsequent sale of 25% of it to a Saudi backed Investment fund - although, tbf, that's no longer 'European' news). The cash involved, and to a lesser degree the implications, dwarf the numbers relating to the VW affair. That you were unable to bring it to mind when trying to think of news about European companies merely highlights my first point.
*If you need to ask who ARM is, or what they do ... try to imagine your current favourite smart phone without its processor.
"corporations should pay their fair share!" = more money for cronies
"Apple saved money on taxes through the Irish loophole" = more money for cronies
This is government policy. Now get with it ordinary peon and pay your taxes, those cronies won't enrich themselves!
Vote out the politicians that raise taxes on you.
Does not mean it doesn't happen. It is already not done to shout about profits anyway.
And if these things happen, laws change in favour of the people. e.g. when Renault in Brussels closed and several thousand workers where thrown out on the street, they where building a new factory in Spain with help from subsidies. Not only did they lose their subsidies, the law was changed in Belgium, so that you can't just say "we close" that easy. There have to be certain steps to be followed.
If you want to fire a certain percentage and/or certain amount of people at the same time, it will take around 6 months to do as you now need to inform people in advance and look for alternatives.
In general people in Europe are more interested in time than in money. Many people will work 4/5 times as they then have more time to spend with friends and family. They could work 5/5 and buy a new car sooner and a new phone and a larger tv and ... but why?
Of the 10 direct co-workers I have 7 do 4/5 work. And yes, that means living in a smaller house than what is standard in the US. And yes, exceptions exist on both sides.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
As compared to neo-liberalism, which punishes everyone equally (except for the top 0.01%, but that gets ignored as a rounding error) and is based on greed.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
The US and the EU are thieves such that the former allow their victims to keep some of their money.
When the EU thieves see money in the pockets of anyone they run around like the keystone cops. "We've never seen this before! TAKE IT! TAKE IT!!"
The biggest news of the last couple of years out of Europe, about a European company, that I can think of would be the sale of ARM* to a Japanese firm (SoftBank) for £24 billion (and then the subsequent sale of 25% of it to a Saudi backed Investment fund - although, tbf, that's no longer 'European' news). The cash involved, and to a lesser degree the implications, dwarf the numbers relating to the VW affair.
First off, Volkswagen's current liability scandal estimate is ~$30 billion, and that number seems to grow every quarter - with many civil actions remaining to be settled still. I wager the Volkswagen cost will catch up to and surpass the costs to purchase ARM by this time next year.
Also, as you alluded, ARM is British - distinct from Europe these days. And what is ARM, in the actual context of Europe or the UK? Virtually all the outfit's design, engineering, and production facilities are overseas. It grosses "only" a billion pounds a year, on patent royalties and little else. Their stuff is less what they make and more a spec, like an 802.11 standard one licenses from a proverbial IEEE instead of certifies it.
So, if that's the best example other than Volkswagen you can think of - a not European but British midcap that essentially makes nothing on its own, well, I rest my case.
a not European but British midcap
How can something possibly be British without being European?
that essentially makes nothing on its own
The same could be said for 99% of the 'tech' industry.
First off, Volkswagen's current liability scandal estimate is ~$30 billion, and that number seems to grow every quarter
Well, that I didn't know, so thanks. I haven't actually paid that much attention to the ongoing fallout - they did wrong; they got caught; they got, financially, punitively punished; the executives essentially got away with it. Not worth worrying about further.
Also, as you alluded, ARM is British - distinct from Europe these days.
Despite what you might have heard, or what you might believe, the UK is still part of Europe, and still part of the European Union. It will remain part of the EU for at least another 18(ish) months.
And what is ARM, in the actual context of Europe or the UK? Virtually all the outfit's design, engineering, and production facilities are overseas.
Given that the original article is about Apple, and your comment is from from the perspective of "us not-any-brand of socialist coal-burner Americans" let's turn this nugget around shall we? And what is Apple in the actual context of Europe or the US? Virtually all the outfit's design, engineering, and production facilities are overseas.
Although the design and engineering parts aren't, in the case of either ARM (Cambridge, UK) or Apple (CA, USA). But please don't let facts get in the way of your rhetoric.
Given that the original article is about Apple, and your comment is from from the perspective of "us not-any-brand of socialist coal-burner Americans" let's turn this nugget around shall we? And what is Apple in the actual context of Europe or the US? Virtually all the outfit's design, engineering, and production facilities are overseas.
The comparison is silly and facile. Apple's new HQ in Silicon Valley is bigger than probably all ARM's facilities ever put together. They make Mac Pros in America. The Samsung-sourced silicon for Apple iPhones is made in Austin, Texas. The back of every Apple widget says 'Designed in California' for a reason. Apple has more cash and cash equivalents right now than all the liquidity in the entire economy of the United Kingdom.
And, ironically, the probably most influential Brit in modern mainstream technology is named Jony Ive and he works for...Apple.
You must have a really cool shovel, because you keep using it to dig an ever deeper rhetorical hole.
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The comparison is silly and facile. Apple's new HQ in Silicon Valley is bigger than probably all ARM's facilities ever put together. They make Mac Pros in America.
No they don't. Foxconn makes them for Apple in America. And the other 99.9% of Apple's products are made in China, also by contract manufacturers. Apple doesn't actually make anything, except perhaps some prototypes.
the probably most influential Brit in modern mainstream technology is named Jony Ive and he works for...Apple.
Jonathan Ive is a designer. I'm not aware of him ever being involved in any technology. He has designed quite a few enclosers for devices containing some technology though, but I wouldn't really put that under 'influential'.
You must have a really cool shovel, because you keep using it to dig an ever deeper rhetorical hole.
You don't think that's a bit rich coming from you after making so many outright wrong claims?