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This Company Is Crowdsourcing Maps For Self-Driving Cars (wired.com)
mirandakatz writes: If we want self-driving cars to become mainstream, we need maps -- and not just any maps. We need ridiculously detailed and constantly updated maps of the world's roads. And there's a mad race among startups to become the definitive provider of those maps. At Backchannel, Steven Levy takes a deep look at Mapper, a startup that just came out of stealth today and that hopes to become that definitive provider by crowdsourcing the production of those maps, paying drivers to drive around with a special mapping device on their windshields. As Levy writes, "Mapper's solution is to create an army of part-time workers to gather data that will accrue to a huge "base map" for autonomous cars, and to update the map to keep it current. Think of the work as an alternative to driving for Uber and Lyft, without having to deal with customer ratings or backseat outbursts from Travis Kalanick."
Google already has the tech for this. They demoed it. Their OS will be everywhere including cars. I'm sure that this war has already been won.
All driving jobs are gone and our robot overlords map our location instead.
Sounds like something OpenStreetMap already does, though there are probably accuracy and liabilities limitations? Though, based on the following sentence, I would suspect the map data they produce is not going to be open:
Mapper’s solution is to create an army of part-time workers to gather data that will accrue to a huge “base map” for autonomous cars, and to update the map to keep it current.
The other thing is whether they will reference publicly the sources of their data, otherwise there is likely to be a high risk of ripping off other sources and even including the same errors.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
If we want self-driving cars to become mainstream, we need maps
No. If these systems require more accurate maps [than human motorists require] to keep passengers alive, then the self-driving peons still don't get it.
A human can handle things like, "Upon reaching the entrance to that rural property, follow the gravel until it looks like a better idea to be on the dirt path, and maybe park on the grass next to that other car".
People are already talking about self-driving cars without any operator controls, and I just don't see that happening without a general AI, because there's so much knowledge and abstract understanding of the world required to operate a car in unusual circumstances.
Or, for those of us in snowy climates, to operate a car when the road isn't visible and you have to make judgement calls on where the pavement most likely is based on whatever cues you can find.
Or how to cooperatively route through or around construction without being so polite you sit there forever while all the pushy drivers jam in front of you.
I doubt I'll still be alive before there's a car that doesn't need a human to operate it a significant amount of the time. I would very much like to be able to put my car on 'autopilot' while on a long highway drive in good conditions and take a nap without fear of dying in my sleep, and I think that's achievable.
https://xkcd.com/1897/
Oddly, only from a week or so ago.
And Tesla is getting this data from every car they sell, for free.
That mapping device, if that is the current iteration, is illegal in most if not all states. It is below the AS1 line and obviously blocks a large amount of view.
Which just shows, once again, how pathetically limited AI systems are. Albeit we people do need maps, when driving we make our immediate decisions based on the information we get in real time, without having to cross-check with a map.
This is a horrible cheat. What we need are ais that are smart enough to UNDERSTAND what they're looking at and adjust.
So much cheating. Enjoy your moron death traps.
will they cover full data plans + roaming as this can really run that up. maybe even say 10GB satellite internet plans.
also just hope that for fords and others don't rip people off on map updates / hdd upgrades.
is self-driving cars that collect self-driving maps data for self-driving cars.
2017:
Being willing slaves to machines
nope.jpg
accuracy some times you are off by one house where the numbers are not lined up right to the gps.
The Payver iPhone app is doing something similar. I've earned $30 already taking videos out the front of my windshield (woo hoo). Unfortunately it's iPhone only, and you have to supply your own mounting hardware, but it's an easy way to earn some lunch money. As a bonus you can tap the screen if you get in an "incident," and it will save before and after video.
It seems like all they really need is a bunch of human temps to make the initial maps. Then they could let the humans go and attach new mapper devices to self driving cars for any/all updates.
as does comma.ai
(With the small difference that their software is opensource,
and their hardware is not vendor specific)
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
The point of self-driving grade maps is to be precise down to the exact lane.
like "the two left lane are for turning left. the two right lane should be for 'straight ahead', except that the second from the right is currently blocked by construction works".
(i.e.: even more precise than what's available on commercial satnavs).
OSM doesn't go that precisely into details.
For that you need to crowdsource it from video feeds :
- the first time the car goes there (either in actual autopilot mode, or in 100% pure manual mode with the camera only working as a glorified dash-cam, like comma.ai's chffr android app), do object recognition on the video feed, notice the street signage, lane arrows and construction work, and beam the info up to the mothership.
- the next time one of the car goes there in autopilot mode while connected to the same cloud, the car knows to change to the right most lane, if the satnav's path finding calls for continuing straight ahead.
Google^H Waymo, Tesla, Comma.ai, and countless others are doing this kind of stuff now.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
If a self driving car can't navigate with maps as currently used by the GPS nav in your car, they're not ready for prime time. They only need to know roughly (within a few yards) where they are, everything else needs to be handled by what the cameras tell them.
Depending on very detailed maps is setting yourselves up for failure becauee you WILL encounter situations where the map does not represent reality. Emergency repairs for a broken water main in the middle of the road come to mind as an example
What about areas without connectivity? If self driving cars *need* these maps to work then how will they ever work if you drive away from an internet connection?
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
...unless what they have in mind is providing the base maps and then crowdsourcing updates to those base maps.
I mean really, cartography is an entire profession. Are we going to get volunteers to replace an entire profession? I don't think so!
However if all they want are road condition updates, then that might work. This is the same thing as people calling (or texting) their local radio or TV station to tell folks about a traffic accident blocking the road. Yes, average people might be willing to participate at this level. And it would likely work too, unless it starts attracting 'disruptors' who like to mess with people.
If the tech itself isn't there? I think not. This is all just completely nuts.
What, you couldn't include the name of the company in the headline?
Clickbait is more important to you than conveying actual information?The dumbification of Slashdot is getting really irritating...
But not more precise than Google Maps, which does exactly this.
Oh, do they ? In my (limited) experience I've only seen the "usual lanes plan when there's no construction work" that other satnavs provide too.
But maybe it's not available yet in all cities.
The truth is, even the gold standard for this sort of thing (Google Maps) doesn't have the amount of accuracy required. And can't. These things change too frequently to actually rely on them for that level of detail.
Yup, the guys at Google have often mentioned that indeed.
Hence the whole idea of using cameras and teaching the cars to understand their environment.
That would be an improvement, certainly. It's still hard to see how it would be effective enough in practice as a crowdsourced venture. How are they going to convince enough people to outfit their cars with dash cams?
Actually, comma.ai has exactly managed that with chffr : convice enough people to install it so they can have enough data to teach their system.
Their strategy revolve around :
.
If the efforts don't fall into too many different forks / split groups / etc. and if comma.ai doesn't pull an "occulus rift" fuck (e.g.: by suddenly declaring that the trained data will only exclusively be available to car companies that pay a license and to no end-user directly *), comma.ai has a *very good chance* of becoming such a "OpenStreet Map for Autopilots and Self-Driving Car"-like company.
On their blog, they even have documented preliminary experiments with generating a 3D map of the street out of the sensors - using only video and GPS, no LIDAR (chffr works with most android smartphone, it doesn't require a Caterpillar with the built-in lidar).
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* : I think I've heard somewhere that comma.ai got approached by Tesla exactly for that, and that comma.ai refused and wanted to explicitely stay car-manufacturer-neutral.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]