Discovery of 50km Cave Raises Hopes For Human Colonisation of Moon (theguardian.com)

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Discovery of 50km Cave Raises Hopes For Human Colonisation of Moon (theguardian.com)

Posted by msmash on Thursday October 19, 2017 @07:00AM from the up-next dept.

New submitter Zorro shares a report: Scientists have fantasised for centuries about humans colonising the moon. That day may have drawn a little closer after Japan's space agency said it had discovered an enormous cave beneath the lunar surface that could be turned into an exploration base for astronauts. The discovery, by Japan's Selenological and Engineering Explorer (Selene) probe, comes as several countries vie to follow the US in sending manned missions to the moon. Using a radar sounder system that can examine underground structures, the orbiter initially found an opening 50 metres wide and 50 metres deep, prompting speculation that there could be a larger hollow. This week scientists at the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency (Jaxa) confirmed the presence of a cave after examining the hole using radio waves. The chasm, 50km (31 miles) long and 100 metres wide, appears to be structurally sound and its rocks may contain ice or water deposits that could be turned into fuel, according to data sent back by the orbiter, nicknamed Kaguya after the moon princess in a Japanese fairytale. Jaxa believes the cave, located from a few dozen metres to 200 metres beneath an area of volcanic domes known as the Marius Hills on the moon's near side, is a lava tube created during volcanic activity about 3.5bn years ago.

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Ice or water deposits by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:03 · Score: 0

I think we can assume that any water definitely would be in the form of ice?
1. Re:Ice or water deposits by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:32 · Score: 0
  
  Wonder Twin powers activate!
  Seriously, I think the plan here is to seal the skylight and pressurize the lava tube with a breathable atmosphere (this could take months or even years). This would allow human habitation without a lot of the burdens and hassles of living on the surface, as well as the possibility of growing food directly on the regolith (especially if we can generate electricity for lights with a small nuclear reactor). This would also provide shelter from cosmic rays and micrometeorites. There may even be minerals or ores that can be mined that would be useful. Dare we even hope for a precious metals strike that could be shipped back to mother earth, effectively paying for the colony? We hope, we hope!
2. Re:Ice or water deposits by bobbied · 2017-10-19 07:34 · Score: 2
  
  I think we can definitely confirm that any water will be INSIDE the rocks and will require that we mechanically remove it by crushing OR it will have to be totally shaded, even from indirect light. Water would sublime into vapor if exposed to the vacuum of space with even a small amount of light from the sun.
  So basically, man will have to dig up and crush fairly large quantities of the moon's crust to get to the water therein. Where this is better than having to bring along large quantities of H2O, saving space and weight for equipment and food, the question really becomes is it worth it? Until we find water ore and prove the mining methods, I'm thinking this is a great idea but I'm not going to bet my life that it's going to work.
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
3. Re: Ice or water deposits by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:35 · Score: 0
  
  You can assume that but you could be wrong. People have made that same assumption before and been wrong abiut it. First you should think in what conditions water could be liquid.
4. Re: Ice or water deposits by joh · 2017-10-19 07:54 · Score: 1
  
  Pressurizing it would mean to seal all walls and to build 100m bulkheads. This is hard.
  But even without that you get shielding against radiation and against micro meteoroids. Both are useful to have and hard to come by on the Moon.
5. Re:Ice or water deposits by skids · 2017-10-19 08:05 · Score: 2
  
  Well, the immediate plan is probably to send in some sort of rover to investigate, which should be exciting. I hope they can find a cute backronym for SPELUNK.
  
  --
  Someone had to do it.
6. Re:Ice or water deposits by R3d+M3rcury · 2017-10-19 08:15 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Self-Propelled Explorer for LUNar Kaves?
  So close...
7. Re: Ice or water deposits by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 08:15 · Score: 0
  
  Surely it doesn't have to be pressurised just to mine it, it could be treated as mining any other solid material, then used and liquefied in the appropriate system or environment that it's being used in. This would be preferable anyway if you consider the contamination issues with the razor sharp carcinogenic moon dust that coats everything up there.
8. Re: Ice or water deposits by amicusNYCL · 2017-10-19 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  The entire thing doesn't need to be habitable, the habitable structures could be built inside it to take advantage of the additional protection. Presumably it would also be best to build any structures in a location that won't be hit by the sun to avoid the expansion and contraction every time the sun appears or goes away.
  I think we're in agreement though based on the comment you replied to.
  
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9. Re:Ice or water deposits by XXongo · 2017-10-19 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  I think we can assume that any water definitely would be in the form of ice?
  Well, we can assume that any water would not be in the form of liquid or vapor.
  It could be in the form of permafrost-- ice mixed with crushed rock-- or in the form of water of hydration.
10. Re:Ice or water deposits by skids · 2017-10-19 08:37 · Score: 1
  
  Eh, so name it SPELUNC instead and call it a day.
  
  --
  Someone had to do it.
11. Re:Ice or water deposits by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 08:50 · Score: 0
  
  Dare we even hope for a precious metals strike that could be shipped back to mother earth, effectively paying for the colony?
  Wouldn't you have to come up with an inexpensive way to ship them?
12. Re:Ice or water deposits by thomst · 2017-10-19 08:59 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  I think we can assume that any water definitely would be in the form of ice?
  The bit about water/ice being potentially present in this multi-billion-year-old system of lava tubes is pure speculation on the part of "Zorro", the submitter of TFS, and/or the /. editor msmash, who posted it to the front page. No such theory is presented in the article from The Guardian (to which TFS links), by the press release from JAXA, as published on phys.org (from which The Guardian's article is most likely drawn), or in the abstract of the actual Geophysical Research Letters article (full "text" - meaning PDF, of course - paywalled courtesy of Wiley).
  Which makes that part complete bullshit, added by someone who had no basis to include it as part of TFS, other than for the purpose of enhancing its clickbait potential. Or, in other words, business as usual for the new, steadily-deteriorating /.
  Damn, I miss CmdrTaco ...
  
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13. Re: Ice or water deposits by mSparks43 · 2017-10-19 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  depends if R. Daneel Olivaw left the heating on.
14. Re:Ice or water deposits by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 09:12 · Score: 0
  
  Water is one of the most common compounds in the universe, consisting of the most common element and the fourth most common element. Water can also be easily recycled with distillation, water can by manufactured.
  Water isn't that big a challenge.
15. Re: Ice or water deposits by networkBoy · 2017-10-19 09:23 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Sealing it isn't all that hard.
  Install primary bulkhead mounts and temporary face.
  Vaporise regolith into a vapor of (mostly) glass and use that to pressurize the interior.
  By default the escaping gas will condense and create a glass fill of all cracks.
  Not hard, but not low energy either.
  Optionally use inert gas to charge the space while aerosolizing some type of epoxy, but that will be more material intensive.
  
  --
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16. Re: Ice or water deposits by Strider- · 2017-10-19 10:04 · Score: 1
  
  Those bulkheads only need to hold back 1bar, and realistically you could probably go down to 0.5 (while maintaining the same PPO2), and it'd still be fine. Your better design would probably be a series of bulkheads that progressively raise the pressure, which would also help for airlocking in and out (as going from 1bar to 1/3, as is typical in space suits, is a good way to give your astronauts the bends.
  
  --
  ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
17. Re:Ice or water deposits by Gavagai80 · 2017-10-19 10:18 · Score: 1
  
  The ideal scenario would be to find a lava tube close enough to the polar crater ice deposits that you can bring in easily-accessible ice.
  
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  This space intentionally left blank
18. Re:Ice or water deposits by mikael · 2017-10-19 11:10 · Score: 1
  
  Scientific Project for Exploration of Lacuna Underneath Natural Keyholes
  
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19. Re:Ice or water deposits by arglebargle_xiv · 2017-10-19 11:49 · Score: 1
  
  I think we can assume that any water definitely would be in the form of ice?
  It's condensation from the exogorth's breath.
20. Re: Ice or water deposits by GPS+Pilot · 2017-10-19 12:26 · Score: 1
  
  If there are large fissures, instead of merely small cracks, wouldn't that vaporized glass just escape into space with no hope of ever sealing up the fissures?
  
  --
  That that is is that that that that is not is not.
21. Re:Ice or water deposits by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 13:34 · Score: 0
  
  Damn, I miss CmdrTaco ...
  I heard he misses you too. Enjoy your honeymoon!
22. Re:Ice or water deposits by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 16:51 · Score: 0
  
  SPelunking and ELucidating Underground Nook King
23. Re:Ice or water deposits by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 17:09 · Score: 0
  
  Wouldn't you have to come up with an inexpensive way to ship them?
  Shipping from the moon to earth can be, relative to shipping from Earth to the moon, very cheap even if you don't go for some sort of mass driver for sending cargo back. It's something like 1/6th the Delta-V. Have you seen the Apollo landers? They didn't exactly have room for a lot of fuel. If you could build a re-usable lunar ferry that could be launched and land dozens of times, then you could put it into service carrying material to and from Lunar orbit. Meanwhile, you could have additional craft that would fly a continuous route to and from Earth. The craft would rendezvous in orbit and exchange cargoes. Fuel and other supplies from Earth and ores or refined materials from the moon. On return to Earth, pods would be dropped into the atmosphere carrying the material collected on the moon.
  Many things could be done to reduce the expense. The craft running the earth moon route could use ion engines. Potentially, in situ resources could be used. If water is available from these caverns, it could be used to make fuel. Potentially other things like drop pods could be made from in situ resources as well. Also, since you only need to reach about 1,500 KPH to reach lunar orbit, it may actually be practical to set up a mass driver to get material up into orbit in the first place.
24. Re:Ice or water deposits by doom · 2017-10-19 18:19 · Score: 1
  
  Water ice has been found near the poles, there's no particular reason there couldn't be more around buried deep: this is speculation but not stupid speculation.
25. Re: Ice or water deposits by I'm+New+Around+Here · 2017-10-19 20:02 · Score: 1
  
  I'm just reading this article now. I can't believe no one else has a reply about R. Daneel Olivaw. But then, Asimov is one of my two favorite authors.
  
  --
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26. Re: Ice or water deposits by mSparks43 · 2017-10-19 21:54 · Score: 1
  
  Really interesting history behind him too. Taught at Boston University at the height of the cold war, consulted for rand corporation. That guy knew secrets...
27. Re: Ice or water deposits by dywolf · 2017-10-19 23:11 · Score: 1
  
  if you go down in pressure, you actually need need to go up in concentration of O2.
  suits may be at a lower pressure, but they are also running at 100% O2.
  reason being the lower pressure makes it more difficult to breath, as you get less of an assist from the differential between lungs and ambient forcing the air into your lungs. absent the increased concentration, astronauts need to work harder to breathe. by increasing the concentration, the astronaut can still get enough O2 while also allowing his diaphragm to not work harder.
  note however that it still takes adjustment, and is uncomfortable, and most astronauts are glad to return inside the ISS (for instance) which is maintained at normal pressure and with a normal concentration of 21% O2 with a Nitrogen balance.
  thus, you (or rather your astronauts) are still going to rather appreciate and prefer returning to a moon base similarly maintained at normal conditions.
  
  --
  The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
28. Re:Ice or water deposits by thomst · 2017-10-20 01:01 · Score: 1
  
  doom commented:
  
  Water ice has been found near the poles, there's no particular reason there couldn't be more around buried deep: this is speculation but not stupid speculation.
  So we agree that it's speculation - and my point that the speculation is that of the author (or the editor - with /. summaries it's hard to know which) of TFS, and that it's not mentioned in The Guardian's article, the JAXA press release, or the actual Geophysical Review Letters abstract stands ...
  
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29. Re: Ice or water deposits by painandgreed · 2017-10-20 02:59 · Score: 1
  
  Which I suspect is why he put that "PP" in there before O2, for Partial Pressure, which is what human breathing depends on.
30. Re:Ice or water deposits by painandgreed · 2017-10-20 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  I think the idea is that a 50km long tube would be the perfect ice trap. Any sublimed water that happened to go inside would eventually end up well away from any sun and heat and become ice. There wouldn't be much at any given time, but the process would have been going on for millions of years. I doubt we'll know until we actually get there and look.
31. Re: Ice or water deposits by networkBoy · 2017-10-20 05:20 · Score: 1
  
  It would just take longer and more vaporised regolith. Some glass will adhere to the sides of the fissure, then eventually it will build up. There is, of course, a breach size that above which is impractical to seal with vapor deposition, and I would assume it to be anything over a decimeter or so.
  I should also add that once a seal is achieved there should be an overpressure test of at least 5x working pressure.
  
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32. Re:Ice or water deposits by Thirty4 · 2017-10-20 05:43 · Score: 1
  
  The Guardian made the ice claim. Not sure were the Guardian got it, but straight from the Guardian article - "The chasm, 50km (31 miles) long and 100 metres wide, appears to be structurally sound and its rocks may contain ice or water deposits that could be turned into fuel, according to data sent back by the orbiter, nicknamed Kaguya after the moon princess in a Japanese fairytale."
33. Re:Ice or water deposits by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-20 06:51 · Score: 0
  
  thanks.
34. Re:Ice or water deposits by angel'o'sphere · 2017-10-20 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  I don't see any claim about ice:
  appears to be structurally sound and its rocks may contain ice or water deposits that could be turned into fuel
  Do you need a dictionary for the meaning of the word "may"?
  
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35. Re: Ice or water deposits by Ranbot · 2017-10-20 08:06 · Score: 1
  
  Vaporise regolith into a vapor of (mostly) glass and use that to pressurize the interior....Not hard, but not low energy either.
  LOL... Not being low energy is what makes that idea very hard to do... on the moon no less. You'd have to mine raw materials and refine into a suitable fuel, or land a nuclear power plant on the moon.
36. Re: Ice or water deposits by nasch · 2017-10-20 15:09 · Score: 1
  
  Just need to land or build enough solar panels (well, I say "just" as though that would be easy). There's lots of energy available on the moon.
37. Re:Ice or water deposits by thomst · 2017-10-20 16:45 · Score: 1
  
  Thirty4 noted:
  
  The Guardian made the ice claim. Not sure were the Guardian got it, but straight from the Guardian article - "The chasm, 50km (31 miles) long and 100 metres wide, appears to be structurally sound and its rocks may contain ice or water deposits that could be turned into fuel, according to data sent back by the orbiter, nicknamed Kaguya after the moon princess in a Japanese fairytale."
  Thanks for clarifying that.
  
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Is the cave full of moon cheese? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:05 · Score: 1

If so, it probably tastes great and is all blue and shining and only exists in a limited quantity and becomes more worth than gold on Earth.
"hopes"?? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:12 · Score: 1

Who hopes for that? The Moon is a dead, airless, deadly hell. What precisely would humans do there? Are there any people living at the bottom of the ocean?
Why not? Why doesn't anyone hope for that?
1. Re:"hopes"?? by zlives · 2017-10-19 07:33 · Score: 1
  
  i hope for atlanteans/mer people all the time....
2. Re:"hopes"?? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:34 · Score: 0
  
  >he doesn't want to live on this planet anymore
  laughing girls dot jay peg
3. Re:"hopes"?? by bobbied · 2017-10-19 07:40 · Score: 2
  
  Good point...
  However, the idea is that if we had enough raw materials on the moon, we could use them to build and fuel space craft and forego having to claw all this stuff off the ground into orbit, which is the most expensive 100 mile trip for this stuff.
  It's a nice idea I suppose.
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
4. Re:"hopes"?? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:40 · Score: 0
  
  I hope.
  I hope one day there will be so many humans so far away from each other in so many distant places that no one will ever start to believe that their will could be enforced on them all, if only because they can't know of each others existence.
  It's that or extinction. Because if the universe doesn't inflict our doom we certainly will. It's the one thing we can't escape until we stop being "we."
5. Re:"hopes"?? by thinkwaitfast · 2017-10-19 07:41 · Score: 1
  
  What precisely would humans do there?
  
  Moon jobs because there won't be any left on Earth.
6. Re:"hopes"?? by FormOfActionBanana · 2017-10-19 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  Maintain a spaceship fueling port?
  
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  Take off every 'sig' !!
7. Re:"hopes"?? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:54 · Score: 0
  
  I've personally spent vast amounts of time at the bottom of the ocean, as have many others. Very close to shore, true, but still the bottom of the ocean.
8. Re:"hopes"?? by avandesande · 2017-10-19 07:58 · Score: 1
  
  Good place for telescopes, gravity wave detectors and large particle accelerators
  
  --
  love is just extroverted narcissism
9. Re:"hopes"?? by careysub · 2017-10-19 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  A terrible place for a telescope. It is not gravity free, the electrostatically suspended lunar dust is a serious hazard, and if working in the infrared the lunar surface emission is a big problem. The only scheme floating around for telescopes on the Moon are quite speculative ones of dubious value (like this one).
  
  --
  Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
10. Re:"hopes"?? by irrational_design · 2017-10-19 08:39 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  I don't know what I'd do there, but I'd be all for moving to the moon as long as I can go outside and bounce around on the surface every once in awhile while giving the finger to the Earth.
11. Re:"hopes"?? by networkBoy · 2017-10-19 09:29 · Score: 1
  
  What precisely would humans do there?
  Science, and build catapults to hurl rocks at the earth ala "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress".
  In seriousness though, science and redundancy to the human species if the colony can be made fully self supporting... though repatriation to the earth might be impossible for any generation not undergoing prep for it from near birth.
  
  --
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12. Re:"hopes"?? by networkBoy · 2017-10-19 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  Aerocebo style on dark side maybe.
  Always shielded from earth's EM noise is a hell of a plus.
  
  --
  whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
13. Re:"hopes"?? by avandesande · 2017-10-19 09:33 · Score: 1
  
  Earth is even 'more terrible' but we've built a few here :)
  
  --
  love is just extroverted narcissism
14. Re:"hopes"?? by darthsilun · 2017-10-19 10:09 · Score: 1
  
  Aerocebo style on dark side maybe.
  The dark side? Perhaps you mean the far side? Which is lit half the time.
  Too much Pink Floyd in the 80s?
15. Re:"hopes"?? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 10:20 · Score: 0
  
  Who hopes for that? The Moon is a dead, airless, deadly hell. What precisely would humans do there? Are there any people living at the bottom of the ocean?
  Why not? Why doesn't anyone hope for that?
  Guess you haven't played Kerbal Space Program yet. The bottom of the ocean is not a stepping stone to the rest of the system.
16. Re:"hopes"?? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 11:55 · Score: 1
  
  Too much Pink Floyd
  No such thing.
17. Re: "hopes"?? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 18:03 · Score: 0
  
  The Moon is a dead, airless, deadly hell. What precisely would humans do there?
  Learn how to survive, thrive and do science, industry and business in a dead, airless, deadly hell. Experiences and knowledge that will be very useful for a space-faring species.
18. Re:"hopes"?? by doom · 2017-10-19 18:16 · Score: 1
  
  Who hopes for that? The Moon is a dead, airless, deadly hell. What precisely would humans do there?
  
  You fill the cave with air, and start a lunar tourism business, and rent people wings so they can fly around in it...
  (Isn't anyone familiar with the classics any more?)
  But of course *some* people would rather stay in New Jersey and play video games in the basement.
19. Re:"hopes"?? by networkBoy · 2017-10-20 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  ^^Thank you, this is a correct statement.
  And to GP Post, yes I did mean far side (and possibly too much Pink Floyd, but I will neither confirm or deny that).
  
  --
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20. Re:"hopes"?? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-20 15:42 · Score: 0
  
  It's The Golden Path(tm) of God Emperor Leto Atreides II.
21. Re:"hopes"?? by mcswell · 2017-10-21 15:31 · Score: 1
  
  I'd be satisfied with glider wings. But yes, to fly...
live together... by TemporalBeing · 2017-10-19 07:13 · Score: 2

...die together - when the whole thing collapses

--
Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
1. Re:live together... by oic0 · 2017-10-19 07:25 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  If it's been there for a few billion years despite the surface getting pounded, it's probably pretty stable.
2. Re:live together... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:46 · Score: 0
  
  It'll be ok, they shore it up with some fine Japanese steel.
3. Re:live together... by R3d+M3rcury · 2017-10-19 08:19 · Score: 1
  
  Until we start digging into the sides of it to get at water/precious gems.
  On the other hand, at 0.125G, if it does collapse, you'll have more time to get out of the way!
4. Re:live together... by MangoCats · 2017-10-19 09:00 · Score: 2
  
  And when we start emitting water vapor and heat inside this tube that has been cold vacuum for 3+Bn years, how's that gonna play? Could be fine...
5. Re:live together... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 09:01 · Score: 0
  
  And even if there is a catastrophic collapse, at 1.6g, it would be slower than on earth, maybe offering time for escape, but if you can be quick enough, maybe you could catch and place large boulders into a structure that would shield you from the pending roof collapse, or use a machine gun to break up the collapse and fling it into space piece by piece. Moon caves are ridiculous and I am all for them, but sooner or later Earth caves are going to be we'll have to live, so we should focus on saving the surface of Earth for human and diverse biological habitation first.
6. Re:live together... by bobbied · 2017-10-19 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  No, no.. It will be made in China...
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
7. Re:live together... by 14erCleaner · 2017-10-19 09:38 · Score: 2
  
  The aliens only want you to think it's been there for billions of years...
  
  --
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8. Re:live together... by hcs_$reboot · 2017-10-19 14:03 · Score: 1
  
  It's 0.165 G, close enough anyway.
  
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9. Re:live together... by jezwel · 2017-10-19 14:20 · Score: 1
  
  Moon dust needs to be isolated from living areas, so the walls would at minimum be coated with something like a concrete or polymer spray. Structural spars would be added for both strength and for supporting internal structures. The cave collapsing would not be an issue.
10. Re:live together... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 14:40 · Score: 0
  
  Nope Japanese fake steel is cheaper.
  https://tech.slashdot.org/stor...
11. Re:live together... by dywolf · 2017-10-19 23:12 · Score: 1
  
  solution: don't dig into the side of your home on the moon.
  
  --
  The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
12. Re:live together... by HeckRuler · 2017-10-20 10:10 · Score: 1
  
  Moon maddness will have you gnawing on the walls, thinking it's cheese. Never bunk with a loonie moonie, and always keep your p-suit near.
Maybe one of these days people will actually visit by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:16 · Score: 3, Funny

Who would have thought 50 years ago that we'd actually be exploring the moon one day?
Been there. Done that. by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:16 · Score: 0

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058100/
I would quite like to go back, but I've quite run out of that blasted Cavorite.
Japanese Ministry of Tourism by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:19 · Score: 0

... is slashvertizing. Oh, look at us with a space agency, we find big space cave. Oh, look at us with our steel manufacturing. We fold it over 1000 times and lie about the tolerances.
The Menace From Earth! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:22 · Score: 0

Seal it a pressurize it per Heinlein! Flying around the lava tubes!
Re:Maybe one of these days people will actually vi by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:25 · Score: 0, Funny

Well, we faked people exploring the South Pole (they would have frozen instantly), climbing Mount Everest (they would have asphyxiated immediately), or diving to the bottom of the ocean (they would have been crushed to death immediately).
So I'm not surprised they faked Moon landings too.
Did we learn nothing from the American Indians? by SuperKendall · 2017-10-19 07:26 · Score: 1

Just like humans to go and dispossess a bunch of peaceful aliens that never even bothered us to begin with, just because we want a precious resource the lands they occupy have in abundance.

--
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
1. Re:Did we learn nothing from the American Indians? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 09:27 · Score: 0
  
  Yes. Don't sit around waiting to be colonized. Be the colonizer.
2. Re:Did we learn nothing from the American Indians? by mcswell · 2017-10-21 15:33 · Score: 1
  
  No aliens there, unless you count the Nazis.
Any selenites? by Okian+Warrior · 2017-10-19 07:28 · Score: 1

Any day now, they will find the remains of an ant-creature civilization, and the skeletal of Mr. Cavor.
Right next to the giant see-saw crystal thingy that powered the selenite civilization.
1. Re:Any selenites? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 08:21 · Score: 0
  
  Poor Cavor. He did have such a terrible cold.
Living? Or harvesting by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:30 · Score: 0

Nobody would live there for long periods of time. It would just be the new form of oil rig for whatever super organization to mine it's resources for Earth.. Or possibly even Mars. Most likely it would be a pit stop on the way to Mars
Also Mars by Okian+Warrior · 2017-10-19 07:30 · Score: 1

Just like humans to go and dispossess a bunch of peaceful aliens that never even bothered us to begin with, just because we want a precious resource the lands they occupy have in abundance.
Not to mention we sent a probe to Mars with a deadly "heat ray" weapon.
Obligatory Star Wars reference by rhazz · 2017-10-19 07:32 · Score: 2, Funny

This can only end one way...
1. Re:Obligatory Star Wars reference by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-21 12:36 · Score: 0
  
  So send in the Bot(han)s first to check it out.
But the burning question is.... by RadioD00d · 2017-10-19 07:33 · Score: 3, Insightful

Have they uncovered the monolith yet?
1. Re:But the burning question is.... by bobbied · 2017-10-19 09:32 · Score: 1
  
  Have they uncovered the monolith yet?
  Yes, of course.. Wasn't that 16 years ago now?
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Re:Amazon HQ2 by zlives · 2017-10-19 07:34 · Score: 1

what are the interplanetary tax codes say.... time to grandfather in a corporation
Imagine the outrage by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:36 · Score: 0

if people were forced to live under such conditions on Earth.
1. Re: Imagine the outrage by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:58 · Score: 0
  
  They live like this in Florence Colorado supermax... maybe the cave is actually a secret prison like MIB 3.....
Cave bats by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:39 · Score: 0

They'll need to come up with a way to keep the mynocks from chewing on the power cables.
One fish, two fish by JonnyCalcutta · 2017-10-19 07:41 · Score: 1

There are just too many reasons why faking the moon landings would have been impossible. The only logical answer is that they faked faking the moon landings.
1. Re:One fish, two fish by gnick · 2017-10-19 08:16 · Score: 2
  
  The tricky part wasn't faking the video. The tricky part was convincing the Russians to go along with our story.
  
  --
  He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
2. Re:One fish, two fish by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 09:20 · Score: 0
  
  The tricky part wasn't faking the video. The tricky part was convincing the Russians to go along with our story.
  The difficulty of the task was compounded by requiring all the actors to pretend their outrage when facing accusation of faking the landings, and in one instance deck Brat (no, not Bart) Sibrel despite his advanced age of 72. [/s]
3. Re:One fish, two fish by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 10:16 · Score: 0
  
  the whoosh is strong in this one!
Re:Maybe one of these days people will actually vi by thinkwaitfast · 2017-10-19 07:43 · Score: 0

A lot of people did, but then we went there and all of the smart people realized there was nothing there for us, at least in the foreseeable future and concentrated on other things.
Empire Strikes Back by Ukab+the+Great · 2017-10-19 07:44 · Score: 4, Funny

"That's no cave."--Han Solo.
1. Re:Empire Strikes Back by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 07:52 · Score: 0
  
  Reminds me of his other famous quote: "This is no moon"
2. Re:Empire Strikes Back by dywolf · 2017-10-19 23:14 · Score: 1
  
  "That's no moon", and it was Obi-Wan who said it.
  
  --
  The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
That's a colossal cave by lhowaf · 2017-10-19 07:52 · Score: 1

Watch out for bottomless pits!
1. Re:That's a colossal cave by lhowaf · 2017-10-19 08:57 · Score: 1
  
  Shhhhh...
2. Re:That's a colossal cave by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 18:57 · Score: 0
  
  PLUGH
an offical statement: (no, really) by Thud457 · 2017-10-19 07:53 · Score: 1

Just a reminder :

The Agriculture Ministry is not in charge of Gundam

--
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Comment removed by account_deleted · 2017-10-19 07:57 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion
Guys be careful by 140Mandak262Jamuna · 2017-10-19 08:05 · Score: 1

You will go inside ti build a habitat and suddenly villi of exogorth droops down and tries to digest you. Unless you have a space ship that can fly faster than the neural transmission speed of an exogorth, dont even try this.

--
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
location for moon space elevator by EnOne · 2017-10-19 08:08 · Score: 1

They have been talking about putting a space elevator on the Moon. Maybe by 2020. I read we already have plastics strong enough to do this in the 1/8th gravity of the moon. Go Liftport!

--
Calvin:Do you believe in the devil? Hobbes:I'm not sure man needs the help.
Cacodemons anyone? by nealric · 2017-10-19 08:16 · Score: 1

We might want to avoid sending any space marines.
The moon is a harsh mistress by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 08:17 · Score: 0

Don't forget about a catapult. Don't screw with us earth!
Seems familiar... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 08:17 · Score: 0

Isn't this how a Hollywood thriller starts?
not sure... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 08:56 · Score: 0

Moon dust is so tiny and sharp that the astronauts who last visited almost died from having their suits compromised. I don't know if that's where you want to build a colony.
1. Re:not sure... by bobbied · 2017-10-19 09:38 · Score: 2
  
  Moon dust is so tiny and sharp that the astronauts who last visited almost died from having their suits compromised. I don't know if that's where you want to build a colony.
  STOP!... Don't confuse me with facts....
  The Lunar surface is a horrible place to set up housekeeping, no matter how you slice it or where you go. Underground is a bit more attractive, but still space is a cruel reality for the living, where there are more ways to die than you can imagine.
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
2. Re:not sure... by crimson+tsunami · 2017-10-19 14:45 · Score: 1
  
  So it's a little bit like outback Australia then?
3. Re:not sure... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-21 07:00 · Score: 0
  
  Only if you are of European descent. Or not, but happen to meet someone who is. Others can get along just fine for thousands of years.
Re:Maybe one of these days people will actually vi by fahrbot-bot · 2017-10-19 08:56 · Score: 1

Who would have thought 50 years ago that we'd actually be exploring the moon one day?
Who would have thought 100,000 years ago we'd still be looking for caves to live in.

--
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Dark Side - Stay Away by neoRUR · 2017-10-19 08:59 · Score: 1

Just stay away from the Dark side of the Moon.....
Re: Maybe one of these days people will actually v by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 09:56 · Score: 0

Hipsters will pay top dollar for that real estate!
Watch out! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 10:06 · Score: 0

Have we learned nothing from "Iron Sky?" Nuke it and ask questions later. We have to avoid the moon Nazi threat at all cost.
Re:Maybe one of these days people will actually vi by Strider- · 2017-10-19 10:07 · Score: 1

Naw, the US went there to beat the Russians. After that job was done, there wasn't really a compelling reason to go back.

--
...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
Water from stone by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 10:10 · Score: 0

rocks may contain ice or water deposits that could be turned into fuel
It would solve a lot of problems if we could do that on earth.
Re: Maybe one of these days people will actually v by Applehu+Akbar · 2017-10-19 10:14 · Score: 1

Hipsters will pay top dollar for that real estate!
The highest bids of all will come from wealthy Londoners:
https://www.unbelievable-facts...
Two words by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 10:56 · Score: 0

Space jiggolos.
Doesn't really make sense by Patent+Lover · 2017-10-19 12:42 · Score: 1

If we really need to colonize the moon, then isn't Earth pretty much fucked to the point where it's... the Moon? What's the point?
1. Re:Doesn't really make sense by Jeremi · 2017-10-19 14:09 · Score: 1
  
  Who said anything about "need"? The list of technologies we don't need (but developed anyway, simply because we like them) is a lot longer than the list of technologies we do need.
  
  --
  
  I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
2. Re:Doesn't really make sense by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 19:17 · Score: 0
  
  It's good prep for when Earth is as uninhabitable as the Moon.
Great just great by OYAHHH · 2017-10-19 14:13 · Score: 1

Let's,
Muck up another heavenly body. I can see it now, a Starbucks around every crater.

--
Caution: Contents under pressure
1. Re:Great just great by micahraleigh · 2017-10-24 02:11 · Score: 1
  
  Ever heard that people are more important than distant space rocks?
  
  NONSENSE !!
Our fake moon base by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 15:04 · Score: 0

Perfect. Now they can fake a moon base, wherein most of the occupants never have to even see 'the moon.'
fairy tale? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 15:07 · Score: 0

And lots of Mexicans are named Jesus after an English fairy-tale too.
Destiny? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 19:33 · Score: 0

Nonono, that's where the Hive live :/ It's a trap.
50m or 100m? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-20 01:48 · Score: 0

I'm confused, is the cave 50m wide or 100m wide? The summary is unclear about that measurement. Also, are they sure it is a cave and not a crack?
We've certainly screwed the pooch by mark_reh · 2017-10-20 03:28 · Score: 1

on earth, but we'll have to screw it up a lot more before the moon starts looking like a good alternative.
No food, no water, no air. Hmmmm.
Mine shaft gap by DarthVain · 2017-10-20 07:18 · Score: 1

OK the race is on for whichever nations can grab the best caves on the moon!
Then the cave wars begin.
What could go wrong? by hoggoth · 2017-10-20 07:46 · Score: 1

> structurally sound and its rocks may contain ice or water deposits that could be turned into fuel
Let's seal this cave airtight and fill it with sweet breathable air. Then let's start digging out the cave walls for fuel! What could go wrong?

--
- For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
Re:Maybe one of these days people will actually vi by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-20 15:49 · Score: 0

Nothing there? Yeah, nothing but the single greatest accomplishment of mankind.
People like you are so blind that you don't realise that the journey is the reward. It's the entire point of life.
radio penetrates rock? by mcswell · 2017-10-21 15:43 · Score: 1

Many years ago, before most of you were born, I was a spelunker. We couldn't communicate underground with radios, or even listen to radios, because (I was told) radio waves don't penetrate rock very well. So how is this radar detecting a tunnel hidden under many meters (I presume) of rock? Is it because the radar is sending out that many watts of power? Or is relatively wet rock (which limestone caves are surrounded by) much more effective at blocking radio waves?
The wikipedia article on ground-penetrating radar isn't very clear on this, but seems to imply that it can penetrate depths of up ~15m of dry rock. That seems too little, if the tunnel is really ~100m wide, I would think the roof would be >> 15m thick, if it lasted billions of years without (except for this skylight) collapsing.