Denuvo's DRM Now Being Cracked Within Hours of Release (arstechnica.com)

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Denuvo's DRM Now Being Cracked Within Hours of Release (arstechnica.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Thursday October 19, 2017 @02:20PM from the best-in-class dept.

Denuvo, an anti-tamper technology and digital rights management scheme, isn't doing a very good job preventing PC games from being copied. According to Ars Technica, Denuvo releases are being publicly cracked within a day of their launch. From the report: This week's release of South Park: The Fractured but Whole is the latest to see its protections broken less than 24 hours after its release, but it's not alone. Middle Earth: Shadow of War was broken within a day last week, and last month saw cracks for Total War: Warhammer 2 and FIFA 18 the very same day as their public release. Then there's The Evil Within 2, which reportedly used Denuvo in prerelease review copies but then launched without that protection last week, effectively ceding the game to immediate potential piracy. Those nearly instant Denuvo cracks follow summer releases like Sonic Mania, Tekken 7, and Prey, all of which saw DRM protection cracked within four to nine days of release. But even that small difference in the "uncracked" protection window can be important for game publishers, who usually see a large proportion of their legitimate sales in those first few days of availability. The presence of an easy-to-find cracked version in that launch window (or lack thereof) could have a significant effect on the initial sales momentum for a big release. If Denuvo can no longer provide even a single full day of protection from cracks, though, that protection is going to look a lot less valuable to publishers.

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ever damn thang is cracked by turkeydance · 2017-10-19 14:26 · Score: 1

within hours / maybe minutes.
1. Re:ever damn thang is cracked by Mashiki · 2017-10-19 18:40 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Well that's not really true. Denovo really held out for a while there like starforce did, think it was right up around a year when it was first released(same with starforce) before the first cracks started showing up. With denuvo v4 there were multiple vulnerabilities because they used someone elses vmware kit, v5 is apparently in-house and several of the latest titles use it. Those games were cracked in under 10 hours no less, they had a good run but CDProjekt showed how wrong the whole DRM scheme is. If you make a good game people will buy it, if you make shit people won't. Ask CliffyB just how well his latest shit game is working out if you need an example though.
  
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  Om, nomnomnom...
2. Re:ever damn thang is cracked by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-20 02:27 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  "but CDProjekt showed how wrong the whole DRM scheme is."
  You mean the people who champion DRM-free policies, but attach DRM to their own Witcher games for the initial launch? Sure they removed it eventually (And were even up front about their intention to remove it once initial launch sales were over), but they're not exactly puritans of faith so to speak.
3. Re: ever damn thang is cracked by Cederic · 2017-10-20 02:37 · Score: 1
  
  Company of Heroes : no DRM, established a massive franchise.
  Company of Heroes 2 : DRM, hated by most Company of Heroes fans.
  The massive money makers will make money whether they have DRM or not. I actively avoid buying games that have obnoxious DRM; my steam library has 140 games in it that I haven't yet played, I'm in no rush to give money to publishers that hate their paying customers.
  I do still buy games. I'm currently playing Divinity: Original Sin II, which is only a month old, has had massive sales and doesn't have any DRM (except maybe Steam; I can't tell).
4. Re:ever damn thang is cracked by Mashiki · 2017-10-20 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  You mean the people who champion DRM-free policies, but attach DRM to their own Witcher games for the initial launch?
  
  You mean the people who champion DRM free policies and held to them, while the publishers of The Witcher and The Witcher 2 required that they put them on the games, which were not their decisions but forced? And removed them, even taking a breach-of-contract hit on the Witcher 2 over it?
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
The Gambler's Delusion by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 14:39 · Score: 5, Insightful

DRM is like the delusional gambler. No matter how much money he loses he refuses to quit, because quitting would be and admission that he has failed and lost all his money. And, he is convinced that if hes sticks with it long enough he will eventually hit that big jackpot.
And I don't expect the companies using DRM to change their minds any time soon.
Denuvo isn't going to just quit and go away. Next year, Denuvo will will promise the game companies them that they have developed a new and improved DRM. It will be a lie. It will be nothing more than digital snake oil, just like all DRM, and the game companies will buy it, because they are just like the delusional gambler.
1. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by Z80a · 2017-10-19 14:48 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Which is quite sad, as it goes against the very thing that is working for em, that is the online distribution.
  Before steam/gog/etc.. acquiring a pirate game was a lot easier than getting the legal copy, as it didn't depended on convoluted mail schemes or having to hope the physical store have the game you actually want etc.. which made the pirate games "better" than the legal copies.
  But with online distribution, now it is actually easier to get the legal games than it is to pirate it, which makes the legal copy better than the pirate, unless the game have some horrible DRM that decrease the performance or make modding impossible or add a "expiry date" to your game, which pushes the pirate cracked version without those issues back to the top.
2. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by lucm · 2017-10-19 15:19 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  DRM is like the delusional gambler. No matter how much money he loses he refuses to quit, because quitting would be and admission that he has failed and lost all his money.
  DRM doesn't work as a bullet-proof system to prevent motivated people to use commercial content for free, but it does work in making it difficult enough that mainstream users will pay for it.
  For instance, as a casual gamer I'm not going to fuck around downloading cracks (that are probably lost in an ocean of fakes infected with malware), I find it easier to pay for the game on Steam. In fact almost all games I play come from sales on Steam or PS4. Meanwhile, I have many gamer friends so if there was no DRM whatsoever I'd probably do like I used to in the 90s, use shared copies.
  It's the same with any kind of software. I don't recall ever paying for MS-DOS 6 or Windows 3.1, but today if I needed Windows I'd probably buy a copy at Best Buy rather than deal with the endless patching and cracking.
  Doesn't mean I endorse DRM, but it works.
  
  --
  lucm, indeed.
3. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by turbidostato · 2017-10-19 18:05 · Score: 2
  
  "That's not the gambler's fallacy, it's the sunk cost fallacy."
  Both.
  "We are not going to stop now after that much investment" -that's the sunk cost fallacy part.
  "Because we "know" we are going to win the jackpot -aka the magic unbreakable DRM if only we push long enough" -thinking that a losing strategy somehow will make us win just because wishful thinking, that's the gambler's fallacy part.
4. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by Ambassador+Kosh · 2017-10-19 18:42 · Score: 2
  
  Even if the games had no DRM other than Steam you would still end up buying from from Steam instead of going to crack sites and hoping you don't get infected with something. The costs are low enough on steam that the risks of trying to get the games illegally is just not worth it for many people.
  How many of the games that you have bought on steam have you ever checked if they have DRM? About the only thing I started checking is that they don't have Denuvo because I have had problems with some games that use Denuvo causing stuttering problems.
  If DRM went away I probably would not even notice at this point.
  
  --
  Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
5. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by sexconker · 2017-10-19 19:24 · Score: 1
  
  For instance, as a casual gamer I'm not going to fuck around downloading cracks (that are probably lost in an ocean of fakes infected with malware)
  1: Search thepiratebay.org, sorting results by date (for new releases) or by size, and look at the entries that have a pink or green skull.
  2: Click the magnet link to download the torrent, then either read the.nfo or the comments (if any) on TPB.
  3: Follow instructions in .nfo or comments to install & launch your WaReZ.
6. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by gweihir · 2017-10-19 19:28 · Score: 1
  
  This is an excellent analogy. And, of course, that delusion is being carefully kept alive by those that stand to win most of it: The purveyors of copy protection schemes.
  
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  Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
7. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by Opportunist · 2017-10-19 20:13 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  A casual gamer will go to steam, click "buy it", click "finish and install" and play it. Not because it's honest, not because it's the right thing, not because he doesn't know about the crack but simply because it's easier and he doesn't give a shit about the 5 bucks the game costs.
  Honestly, the only time I actually notice a game has DRM is when the damn crap keeps me from playing because the "you have to be online all the time" servers are unreachable again. Which is coincidentally also the only time when I have to fire up IDA anymore...
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
8. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 20:57 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  some horrible DRM that decrease the performance or make modding impossible or add a "expiry date" to your game
  You forgot: Infects your PC with some root-kit like software that conflicts with other software you use, such as virtualization software, mounting CD images or even (in one case) drivers for CD burners.
9. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by Stuarticus · 2017-10-19 22:07 · Score: 1
  
  I say that myself quite often, so on seeing these games I went to Steam to see if I would buy them (I played the earlier versions of both of them and they were both decent games) £45 and £50 for the games, totally outrageous price. I'd rather pirate than pay that much out of principle.
  
  --
  If you think someone isn't free to have a different definition of "freedom" you may be a tyrant.
10. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by Hal_Porter · 2017-10-20 00:15 · Score: 1
  
  Counterpoint - most of the total sales happen in the first couple of months after release. Crack protection can delay for about that.
  Incidentally if your game contacts a server, the server can request checksum checks from the clients and kick ones that have get the answer wrong. So you can ban cracked copies from online play. I.e. the current popularity of online multiplayer makes it easier to do crack detection because you've got a trusted server doing the checks rather than potentially cracked client code.
  https://www.gamasutra.com/view...
  
  So you've worked 10- to 12-hour days for the past two years, trying to make your latest game the best ever. You even added copy protection to try to stop the pirates, but within a few days of release there are already crack patches flying around the Internet. Now anyone can help themselves to your hard work, without so much as a "please" or "thank you."
  This is what happened to Insomniac's 1999 Playstation release, Spyro 2: Ripto's Rage. Even though it had good copy protection, it was cracked in a little over a week. So when we moved on to Spyro: Year of the Dragon (YOTD), we decided that something more had to be done to try to reduce piracy. The effort was largely successful. Though a cracked version of YOTD has become available, it took over two months for the working patch to appear, after numerous false starts on the part of the pirates (the patch for the European version took another month on top of that). The release of patches that didn't work caused a great deal of confusion among casual pirates and plenty of wasted time and disks among the commercial ones.
  Two months may not seem like a long time, but between 30 and 50 percent of most games' total sales occur in that time. Approximately 50 percent of the total sales of Spyro 2, up to December 2000, were in the first two months. Even games released in the middle of the year rather than the holiday season, such as Eidetic's Syphon Filter, make 30 percent of their total sales in the first two months. If YOTD follows the same trend, as it almost certainly will, those two to three months when pirated versions were unavailable must have reduced the overall level and impact of piracy. On top of this, since YOTD was released in Europe one month after the U.S., those two months protected early European sales from pirated copies of the U.S. version.
  So why did it take so long to crack YOTD when a patch was available for Spyro 2 so quickly? The difference was that Spyro 2 only had copy protection, while YOTD added crack protection. The crack protection complemented the copy protection by checking for alterations to the game, rather than just making sure the game was run from an original disk. This extra layer of protection slowed down the crackers significantly, because removing the copy protection had to be done without triggering the crack protection. Basically, YOTD is booby-trapped â" one wrong bit and it will blow up in your face. This article will explain the techniques that we used in YOTD, what we learned from using them, and some ideas about how to take our techniques even farther. However, I will not go into explicit detail, as most of the coding involved is relatively simple. Crack protection is more about out-thinking the crackers than out-coding them. A great advantage of any method of protection is novelty. Even a new implementation will give an advantage over simply reusing code, regardless of whether it was successful in previously delaying a crack.
  
  --
  echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
11. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by Ambassador+Kosh · 2017-10-20 00:44 · Score: 1
  
  There will be a huge steam sale soon for Black Friday in the USA. That is a good time to get games.
  I pretty much only buy games on steam that are on-sale. I think the last full price game I bought was Fallout 4 and the next one I buy at full price will probably be Elder Scrolls 6 or Fallout 5.
  There are two games I will probably get in the next steam sale but I have no real interest in going to the pirate sites to try and find them, hope nothing gets infected etc.
  
  --
  Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
12. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by Wulf2k · 2017-10-20 02:26 · Score: 1
  
  > but it does work in making it difficult enough that mainstream users will pay for it.
  It also works the other way around.
  I enjoyed South Park: the Stick of Truth. It was a fun enough game that the sequel was going to be an instant purchase on release day.
  Instead, I load up the page on Steam and see that it's protected by Denuvo. I did not purchase the game.
  Maybe I'll grab it on another system, maybe I'll wait and see if the protection ever gets removed, I dunno.
  What I do know is that I "could" easily grab a pirated copy and it would work fine. I have too much of a backlog of games to bother with that sort of thing these days, but their DRM has cost them a day 1 sale.
13. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by Waccoon · 2017-10-20 02:47 · Score: 1
  
  At this point, I pretty much just refuse to buy any game that has a 3rd-party EULA. Almost all the time developers have an extended EULA, it's to explain the extra DRM.
14. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by gfxguy · 2017-10-20 05:29 · Score: 1
  
  A copy of your "idea?" So no actual work went into it's production, it was just an "idea?"
  No, IP theft is theft... it may not be as heinous as physical theft, but if you're not compensating the owners of the IP for it's use, then you are denying them revenue they deserve. Yes, they deserve it... They created the content, they get to dictate how it's licensed, and if you are using and enjoying that content while violating that license, then you are "stealing" what was rightfully owed to them.
  What's worse is that we're talking about games, here. Not bread to feed your starving family, not some medical breakthrough that could save your life but costs a million dollars, but games. If you don't want to pay what the IP holders are asking, then don't play. WTF kind of world is this when people feel entitled to play a game without paying for it? If you think $60 is too much, then wait for the price to come down, or don't buy it at all.... you're not entitled to it. There's no ethical justification for stealing games (or music or movies, for that matter).
  
  --
  Stupid sexy Flanders.
15. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by gfxguy · 2017-10-20 05:32 · Score: 1
  
  You are a shining example of ethics and morality. I can't believe how many people justify violating copyright laws for games... if you think it's too much, then you wait for the price to come down, or you don't buy it at all. There's no justification for "stealing" games. I am completely on board with how you go about buying games - I have a steam account with over 100 games from Humble Bundles and sales.
  
  --
  Stupid sexy Flanders.
16. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by gfxguy · 2017-10-20 05:38 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe if you only download a separate crack that you are supposed to apply to the uncracked game data, but why would anyone do that?
  I used to do that all the time, back in the day.... I don't "pirate" games, but I had no problem cracking legally purchased games to avoid the copy-protection schemes that were in use back then, like looking up codes on a code wheel or in the manual. I had a game that would just stop periodically in the middle of game play (yes, multiple times per session) and ask for a code. I had no moral dilemma using cracks on those games.
  What would be the point now? I don't know - if you legally own the game, they don't really employ those kinds of schemes anymore, so I don't know why you'd want to crack it, although I do suspect some DRM schemes might create some annoyances.
  
  --
  Stupid sexy Flanders.
17. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by rahvin112 · 2017-10-20 06:10 · Score: 1
  
  All DRM can be cracked and will be cracked. They sell the idea of DRM to game company executives by saying that they've got this uncrackable encryption, they just don't tell them that they have to give the user the private key or paying customers can't play the game, they just "hide the private key really good". And that's the thing, as soon as the cracking teams figure out where you hid the key it's game over. And once they know the pattern it's ever easier to find it in future releases.
  All DRM is broken by design.
18. Re: The Gambler's Delusion by mfnickster · 2017-10-20 06:46 · Score: 2
  
  You forgot about the need to keep physical disks in an optical reader to play the game.
  Yeah, that can be inconvenient.
  What I'd really like is a robot arm that automatically opens the Xbox drawer, takes the disc out, puts it back in its case on the shelf, and fetches another one and loads it in the drawer.
  Yep. That'd be a game-changer.
  
  --
  "Slow down, Cowboy! It has been 3 years, 7 months and 26 days since you last successfully posted a comment."
19. Re: The Gambler's Delusion by gfxguy · 2017-10-20 09:29 · Score: 1
  
  LOL at anonymous coward... I guess the truth hurts, you immoral "piece of shit."
  
  --
  Stupid sexy Flanders.
20. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by Ambassador+Kosh · 2017-10-20 10:58 · Score: 1
  
  The sad thing is that this should not qualify as a shining example of morality. There are so many fun games available that you can never play more than a tiny percentage of them. If you try to get a game illegally and get infected from it and have to rebuild the machine and restore from backups you easily lose far more in time than the game was worth.
  My general view is that you are free to set any price you want for your product. If I don't like the price I will go somewhere else. I don't have the right to illegally copy your product just because I want it for a price you don't want to sell it at. There is also ample competition at this point. There is more entertainment than any human could ever consume. If someone charges too much go find something else or wait for a sale.
  
  --
  Computer modeling for biotech drug manufacturing is HARD! :)
21. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by gfxguy · 2017-10-20 11:19 · Score: 1
  
  I agree with you - and it is a shining example of morality and ethics... things that are far too rare in this age of entitlement.
  
  --
  Stupid sexy Flanders.
22. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by lucm · 2017-10-20 18:31 · Score: 1
  
  In the majority of cases it is none of these, in cases where particularly egregious DRM schemes are used piracy can even be more convenient than trying to jump through the hoops they make to play the game legitimately.
  Please name 3 games where that applies
  
  --
  lucm, indeed.
23. Re:The Gambler's Delusion by thejynxed · 2017-10-21 16:47 · Score: 1
  
  Well, it's a 50/50 tossup on if it's for the DRM or for the publisher's own multiplayer service because for some reason all of these developers and publishers keep reinventing the wheel instead of using either Valve's matchmaking service or one of the other main ones you can license to use.
  
  --
  @Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
How to sell massive games? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-10-19 14:42 · Score: 1

1. Release game
2. Let 'em copy
3. Let 'em play
4. Let 'sm hooked on the game play
5. Release game extensions, available only through authorized channel
6. Profit !
1. Re:How to sell massive games? by mwvdlee · 2017-10-19 17:55 · Score: 1
  
  If that would work, why not sell the game itself "only through authorized channels" that somehow magically make cracking impossible?
  
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2. Re:How to sell massive games? by sexconker · 2017-10-19 19:20 · Score: 1
  
  The scene rushes to crack and release the retail versions of the game.
  They often don't care about patches or DLC unless it's a major game.
3. Re:How to sell massive games? by Opportunist · 2017-10-19 20:09 · Score: 1
  
  They often don't care about patches or DLC unless it's a major game.
  Problem for the game makers: Neither do gamers.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
4. Re:How to sell massive games? by thejynxed · 2017-10-21 17:03 · Score: 1
  
  Because that would involve a modicum of effort and cost and publishers don't even like having to pay their dev teams as it is.
  I had a discussion with a publisher once, and they actually do have ways to make it so you can't pirate their software. The problem is A) these methods are extremely inconvenient to consumers B) the costs involved. It's far cheaper for them to contract out to the companies that make SecuROM or Denuvo for instance than contracting to the companies that require biometrics and dongles (there are a few expensive pieces of software out there that use both together, they haven't been cracked ever since it was implemented almost a decade ago). Also, one of the things they don't like to admit in public is that they know these schemes won't work for long, but they add them anyway because it's considered due diligence under the law, so if they decide to sue unauthorized distributors they already have one leg up on them in front of a judge.
  
  --
  @Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
I don't buy anything with DRM by Phylter · 2017-10-19 14:44 · Score: 3, Interesting

Maybe DRM is important to ensuring people buy their products but I won't bother buying anything with DRM. I've got software purchased that I can no longer use, not because the software is not compatible with my computer, it's the DRM that is no longer compatible. I don't pirate games or software. I'll do without if DRM is involved. It's a huge pain in the neck.
1. Re:I don't buy anything with DRM by Bite+The+Pillow · 2017-10-19 19:54 · Score: 1
  
  You're not the target audience then, and voting with your dollars affects almost nothing. Also, preaching to the choir probably doesn't do a lot.
  Lots of people spend money on DRM products, and probably don't even know what DRM is, or if it can be worked around. These are the targets, they are plentiful, and have money.
Gamer's love a challenge! by EzInKy · 2017-10-19 14:47 · Score: 1

They are probably thanking Denuvo for providing them one!!

--
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Interesting to See What Happens Next by PocketPick · 2017-10-19 14:51 · Score: 1

Reading this makes reading some of the snippets from Denuvo's main site rather amusing:
* "Recent release of [Denuvo-protected] Just Cause 3 has pushed the Chinese piracy group's (3DM) cracking abilities practically past their limits. "In two years' time I’m afraid there will be no free games to play in the world."
* "Chinese hackers have admitted defeat in their attempt to pirate a new video game release and warned that increasingly sophisticated software could wipe out piracy in the gaming industry altogether. "
It may be business saviness, or the naive hope that "this time, it may work" or "it's better than nothing", which keeps developers & publishers buying into their product, though short a fundamental re-thinking of how their technology works, I can't imagine integration of their Denuvo into new games continuing to accelerate like it did in the back half of 2015 and on through 2016.
What affect it will have on future releases, I don't know. AAA games previously only the domain of consoles began to come to steam before Denuvo hit the market, and I would presume that will remain the case, though it may some companies from bringing some titles.
I do expect that if Denuvo "goes away" though, that (for gamers) will be a self-defeating, since any future solution will replaced with something only more draconian.
1. Re:Interesting to See What Happens Next by Cederic · 2017-10-20 02:43 · Score: 1
  
  I hate DRM and I'm delighted Denuvo is no longer fit for purpose.
  I do acknowledge that they created a product that had a remarkably long lifespan for its market. That's impressive.
  If only their engineers could turn those talents to good use instead.
Why? by bankman · 2017-10-19 17:26 · Score: 1

Why do these idiots still bother? It doesn't make any sense, it costs money to develop and support those who actually try to work with DRM, and eventually it will be cracked and leads to press about how incompetent you are at this.

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I feel so sig.
The myth of DRM by Jbcarpen · 2017-10-19 19:25 · Score: 1

The core problem with the idea of DRM is that it assumes a false premise. It assumes you can somehow provide software to the user in such a way that they simultaneously both can and cannot read it.
Encryption is the art of getting information from Alice to Bob such that Charlie can't read it.
DRM is the art of getting information from Alice to Bob such that Charlie can't read it, Except with the further constraint that Bob IS Charlie.

--
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1. Re:The myth of DRM by Opportunist · 2017-10-19 20:19 · Score: 1
  
  Technically, no. Charlie isn't Bob, but Bob is living in Charlie's apartment. Bob may try to lock some doors, but Charlie can make Bob hand the keys over.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
2. Re: The myth of DRM by Opportunist · 2017-10-19 21:07 · Score: 1
  
  Bob is the machine running the software.
  I can't take the software and run it on myself. I also don't gain anything from recording what is being played. I need to get the computer to run the software the way I want it to run rather than how its maker wanted it to run.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Those that want to pay, will pay by gweihir · 2017-10-19 19:27 · Score: 1

The others will not, whether they get the game cracked or do not get the game at all. The whole model used for the economics of copy protection is wrong. It is inspired by greed and a deep desire to control. It is not based on facts. The facts are that most people have a certain budget for entertainment and they cannot really exceed that. At the same time, they also have a time-budget. In the end, except for some special cases, copy protection loses you sales and loses you quite a bit of money.

--
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Re:Denuvo paid off 3DM by sexconker · 2017-10-19 19:28 · Score: 2

The reason Denuvo shilled comments from the very poor asian cracking group 3DM was because they paid off the group to release the comments to suggest Denuvo would be worth using in the future. In reality 3DM had one half-hearted kid cracker who had made some progress with early versions of Denuvo, but had already moved on due to real life issues.
For 3DM, taking Denuvo's money was a no-brainer- they were never going to release decent cracks anyway.
They paid 3DM off after their first 2 cracks (I believe 1 was really a workaround/bypass). 3DM then announced they were stopping for a year.
Other groups started cracking Denuvo's shit faster and faster (as mentioned elsewhere, due to 64-bit debugging improving).
Denuvo is dead.
Re:False by Bite+The+Pillow · 2017-10-19 19:47 · Score: 1

DRM is about delaying the inevitable copying. If you get months, it is a success. Weeks would be well worth it. As we see here, just a few hours can make the presales worth it.
You are misrepresenting the purpose to paint it as a failure, when this article clearly says otherwise. When that happens, look for a different purpose.
This particular DRM team ran out of variants, another one will become more popular and suffer a similar fate. Meanwhile, publishers make money.
Do not argue about DRM free games making more money, I am not a publisher. The goal is to hold off the invaders as long as possible, not crush them and stand victorious.
The "uncracked window" myth by Opportunist · 2017-10-19 20:23 · Score: 2

That shit again? Please.
What does someone do who is a die-hard fan that wants the game more than anything? Preorder. Without even knowing what DRM the game will have or if at all. Because he doesn't give a shit. I wanna, shut up and take my money!
Anyone who gets convinced by reviews and information from peers will get that information a few days after release. When the crack is already available. So if this person so pleases, he can get the cracked version instead.
So tell me again, who does that DRM keep from getting the cracked version? Yes, it's true that most sales happen in the first few days. But not because of DRM but because of fanboys who preordered.

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1. Re:The "uncracked window" myth by mobby_6kl · 2017-10-19 21:36 · Score: 1
  
  A big part of total sales is day-1 probably due to preorders, but the first week or so (http://steamspy.com/app/594570; unless it's a flappy bird or something) is very important. If there's a crack already available during this time, it's pretty logical that some people who would've bought it would instead pirate. Good luck proving that either way though.
2. Re:The "uncracked window" myth by Opportunist · 2017-10-19 23:54 · Score: 1
  
  People willing to wait one day won't mind waiting 4 more. Those that really, really, really want the game preorder it or buy it right when it becomes available in the odd case that you cannot preorder it.
  With the game you mention, you can also see that half the owners bought it at release (200k) with another 200k being sold in the first week and another 50k units sold over the course of the next 2 weeks.
  If DRM had any influence in sales, we'd see most of the sales happen on day 1 and 2, before the protection is broken, with sales pretty much dropping by about 90% due to people copying the game.
  
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3. Re:The "uncracked window" myth by Ash-Fox · 2017-10-20 00:59 · Score: 1
  
  What does someone do who is a die-hard fan that wants the game more than anything? Preorder. Without even knowing what DRM the game will have or if at all. Because he doesn't give a shit. I wanna, shut up and take my money!
  Most of my friends don't mind doing that, paying full price, getting the pre-order bonuses and trying to get the game early because if it's trash, we have a "good game" guarantee that allows us to return a game if it's shite.
  
  Yes, it's true that most sales happen in the first few days. But not because of DRM but because of fanboys who preordered.
  The gamers we hangout with are really different...
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
4. Re:The "uncracked window" myth by Ash-Fox · 2017-10-20 01:50 · Score: 1
  
  Cool story, AC.
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
PTSD by sirv · 2017-10-19 20:56 · Score: 1

there are no good games produced anymore .. or maybe I have PTSD and cannot enjoy them .. I don't know .. help me find out .
1. Re:PTSD by Ash-Fox · 2017-10-20 00:56 · Score: 1
  
  there are no good games produced anymore
  The production of Star Citizen seems to be looking pretty good so far. The end result will either be great or an epic disappointment.
  
  don't know .. help me find out .
  Would you like a referral code to wait and see with me?
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Good game sell by DrYak · 2017-10-19 22:42 · Score: 3, Insightful

Those games were cracked in under 10 hours no less, they had a good run but CDProjekt showed how wrong the whole DRM scheme is. If you make a good game people will buy it, if you make shit people won't.

Yup I totally agree.
If you've made a good game and there are tons of fan liking it, they'll line up to buy it EVEN if it is DRM-free.
A cracked game, if the game is good won't necessarily cause a big drop of sales.
(Some people might decide not to pay for it, but it's going to be a small fraction of the fans. On the other hand another fraction of the fans might finally decide to buy it, now that there's a way to take their legit copies and "disinfect it" from the DRM : that might end up being my case regarding Sonic Mania and Denuvo)
If your game is shitty, it's a stupid excuse to blame it on piracy.

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And how much was spent on this crap? by Chas · 2017-10-19 23:06 · Score: 1

How much money could have gone into development? Or paying their staff better? Or rolled off into the budget of another game?

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1. Re:And how much was spent on this crap? by Ash-Fox · 2017-10-20 00:50 · Score: 1
  
  How much money could have gone into development?
  An estimate would say four hours development time. But developers are paid a salary, not hourly.
  
  Or paying their staff better?
  Since it's publishers that are licensing this software and doing so out of their own profits, I guess it's possible their marketing team might get paid better. It certainly wasn't going to the dev team.
  
  Or rolled off into the budget of another game?
  Generally speaking, these decisions are made on profit and losses, so they would under normal circumstances have made more profit doing this. Seems highly unlikely they would have had more money to throw around in this scenario.
  
  --
  Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
2. Re:And how much was spent on this crap? by thejynxed · 2017-10-21 13:30 · Score: 1
  
  The money for Denuvo is taken out of the dev budget, as per several dev teams under the EA umbrella and other similar organizations. It runs about $150k for the base license + any extras.
  
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  @Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
Re:Cool by Ash-Fox · 2017-10-20 00:52 · Score: 1

But other than that one "rich friend", I don't know anybody who buys games in the launch window, especially not "triple a" games
I know plenty that do, usually even trying to get the game a daily early from stores.

--
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Back in the 80s by Frederic54 · 2017-10-20 00:57 · Score: 1

Nothing has changed... a game was out for C64 or Amiga, a few days later you had the cracked version on some BBS then circle friends...

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"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
Who said this: by null+etc. · 2017-10-20 01:18 · Score: 3, Funny

But even that small difference in the "uncracked" protection window can be important for game publishers, who usually see a large proportion of their legitimate sales in those first few days of availability.
"Oh, I was going to find a cracked version of this game on launch day, but because I can't find one, I'll pay the full retail price of $40 to $60 right now, instead of waiting a few more days for the cracked version", said no pirate ever.
Re:Doesn't matter how many play your game by laurencetux · 2017-10-20 02:21 · Score: 1

So as an example for the game Emperor of The Universe include as part of a Purchased Copy
1 an upgraded asteroid Base
2 a couple ships (maybe one fighter and one light cargo/tech ship)
3 a chest with say 30M "credits"
4 a JumpGate to a merchant FreeHold
then if somebody pirates the game then they would have to buy a large numbers of Things to get past the first bit of the game.
Re:Doesn't matter how many play your game by Cederic · 2017-10-20 02:31 · Score: 2

Why wouldn't the pirated version include those benefits?
DRM tends to make the pirated versions better to play than the legitimate ones. I used to download 'no CD' cracks for games I'd bought as it made it easier for me to play them.
OMG. by Slartibartfast · 2017-10-20 02:36 · Score: 1

Someone with a UID that's the same number of digits as mine. I'd begun to suspect we were all, like, put out to pasture or something.
No surprises here by Rick+Schumann · 2017-10-20 04:28 · Score: 1

I've been saying for YEARS that any sort of 'DRM' or copy protection you can spend any amount of time developing, someone will have cracked within a matter of days. It's always been this way, it'll always BE this way, and they're wasting their time and money. Just accept that there's going to be some copying going on and get over it.
All you have to do is get past launch window by rsilvergun · 2017-10-20 09:51 · Score: 1

and yeah, Denuvo isn't doing that right now. I'm pretty sure Ubisoft's system is though. Their solution is to download the game in chunks as you get futher along. It's also why their games are often barely playable at launch. It works, and the 'barely playable' part doesn't seem to hurt sales. Me? I won't buy an Ubisoft game until 6 months after launch. I did that before I knew about their DRM scheme too. It had nothing to do with principle, I just knew too many people who couldn't play the game until months after launch. Now I know why. But like I said, the impact on sales is negligible.

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1. Re:All you have to do is get past launch window by thejynxed · 2017-10-21 13:53 · Score: 1
  
  I have refused to purchase their games ever since they first decided to use Starforce DRM and it trashed some of my very expensive at the time DVD-RW drives. The Starforce driver was notoriously unstable to begin with and caused issues for regular optical drives, once version 4 of Starforce hit those shifty Russians went too far and decided to tamper with drive firmware itself. They attempted to overwrite your drive firmware with a custom version in which they set the region flag and to disable the ability to write to disk. Unfortunately for many people this hosed their drives because it used the wrong firmware for their model.
  
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  @Mindless Drivel: 100% of Twitter posts ever Tweeted.
Re:Doesn't matter how many play your game by ArmoredDragon · 2017-10-20 15:20 · Score: 1

DRM tends to make the pirated versions better to play than the legitimate ones. I used to download 'no CD' cracks for games I'd bought as it made it easier for me to play them.
That should quite well return after a long period of taking a while to push out cracks. The reason Denuvo lasted as long as it did was because there were no good 64-bit debuggers that had workarounds for anti-debugging code when it came out. Denuvo mainly works by obfuscating the crap out of code that is essential to the DRM it protects so that it's hard to reverse-engineer, but at the same time that code isn't sensitive to performance degradation. One of the favorites among crackers is OllyDbg, which still has no 64-bit version, but some other debuggers do now.
Some new really good debuggers have come around, so it's not surprising that it's getting easier to crack denuvo.
Personally, I've stopped cracking games from steam as I've found the DRM to be unnoticeable. The games just work everywhere I want to use them, unlike say movie DRM or ebook DRM. The only exception is when you had to buy a new game when it first came out in order to get all of its content. I honestly hate buying brand new games from most developers because they are all full of bugs, and I just end up waiting a long time for patches to come out to play them anyways. Skyrim is a great example of this because its UI was utterly useless at the start due to consolitis, though fortunately it didn't have any locked content because Bethesda aren't assholes like EA.